commonwealth of pennsylvania legislative journal · 16.10.1989 · no. 2000 by representatives...

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL

MONDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1989

SESSION OF 1989 173D OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY No. 61

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 1 JOURNAL IN PRINT

The House convened at 1 p.m., e.d.t. I The SPEAKER. For the information of the members. the

PRAYER

THE SPEAKER (JAMES J. MANDERINO) IN THE CHAIR

The SPEAKER. Prayer will be offered today by Rev. Dr. Albert E. Myers, who is the executive director of the Pennsyl- vania Council of Churches.

REV. DR. ALBERT E. MYERS offered the following prayer:

Let us pray: Thank You, gracious God, for all You have done for us.

May our service in this House demonstrate our dedication and gratitude to You.

Thank You for the splendor of creation, for the beauty of this world, for the wonder of life, for health and for food, and for the sweet mystery of love.

You bless us with family and friends. Thank You for their care and support.

You bless us with the high calling to public service. You invite us t o give our best here. You lead us to accomplish- ments which bring satisfaction to us and health and dignity to our fellow citizens. Thank You for the opportunity to serve.

You permit us to experience disappointments and failures, too. Thank You for leading us t o acknowledge our depen- dence upon You alone.

We ask for Your guidance and encouragement. We need Your wisdom, Your strength. Give us insight and courage to make those choices and establish those policies which may best serve Your people in Pennsylvania. Amen.

Journal of Tuesday, October 3 , 1989, is in print, and without objection, the same will be approved with the close of this week's sessions.

PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited by members and vis- itors.)

JOURNAL APPROVAL POSTPONED

The Speaker would like to thank Dr. Myers of the Pennsyl- vania Council of Churches for giving the opening prayer today in the absence of the House Chaplain, who has suffered a death in the family. Thank you, Dr. Myers.

HOUSE BILLS INTRODUCED AND REFERRED

No. 1988 By Representatives DEMPSEY, ALLEN, PESCI, TIGUE, BILLOW, BUNT, DISTLER, DOMBROWSKI, BUSH, HESS, COHEN, LASHINGER, RAYMOND, JOHNSON, VROON, MICHLOVIC and BELARDl

An Act amending the act of June 23, 1931 (P. L. 932, No. 317), known as "The Third Class City Code," further providing for pension funds for employees who are not public safety employees.

Referred to Committee on URBAN AFFAIRS, October 16, 1989.

No. 1989 By Representatives JACKSON, MOEHLMANN and D. F. CLARK

An Act amending the act of June 19, 1931 (P. L. 589, No. 202), referred to as the "Barbers' License Law," further defining "barhering."

Referred to Committee on PROFESSIONAL LICEN- SURE, Octoher 16, 1989.

No. 1990 Bv Reoresentatives JACKSON. . . MOEHLMANN and D. F. CLARK

An Act amending the act of May 3, 1933 (P. L. 242, No. 86). referred to as the "Cosmetology Law," further defining "cosmetology."

CAPPABIANCA, GIGLIOTTI, PISTELLA, DALEY, DeLUCA, DIETTERICK,

The SPEAKER. Without objection, we will postpone until printed the approval of the Journal dated Wednesday, October l I , 1989. The Chair hears no objection.

Referred to Committee on PROFESSIONAL LICEN- SURE, October 16, 1989.

No. 1991 By Representatives STABACK, TIGUE, VAN HORNE, PESCI, HALUSKA,

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Penn- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for an offense relating to barriers obstructing certain roadways, lanes or trails.

McVERRY, COLAFELLA, E. Z. TAYLOR, BUNT, VEON, COHEN, STISH, BELARDI, MICHLOVIC, GELST and

Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, October 16, 1989.

No. 1992 By Representatives FARMER, LAUGHLIN, CESSAR, SAURMAN, BURD, DIETTERICK, WOGAN, McVERRY, J . L. WRIGHT, FLEAGLE, BILLOW, RYBAK, FAIRCHILD, DISTLER, PESCI, MORRIS, TIGUE, BUNT, SCHULER, STABACK, ARGALL, MELIO, SALOOM, CAWLEY, JOHNSON, BELARDI, ITKIN, FOX, NOYE, COLAFELLA, GLADECK, HECKLER, HERMAN, RAYMOND, LASHINGER, TRICH, NAHILL, FREEMAN, KENNEY, JADLOWIEC, MERRY, CIVERA, SERAFINI, CANNON, ANGSTADT, LEH, MICOZZIE and TELEK

An Act amending the act of November 4, 1983 (P. L. 217, No. 631, known as the "Pharmaceutical Assistance Contract for the Elderly Act," further providing for eligibility for assistance.

Referred to Committee on YOUTH AND AGING, October 16, 1989.

No. 1993 By Representatives FARMER, VAN HORNE, BILLOW, PISTELLA, FAIRCHILD, McVERRY, DISTLER, MORRIS, PESCI, TIGUE, BUNT, MRKONIC, SCHULER, ARGALL,

BELARDI, MAIALE, HOWLETT, SCRIMENTI, ANGSTADT, REINARD, KOSINSKI, CAPPABIANCA,

MELIO, CAWLEY, ITKIN, NOYE, HECKLER, LAUGHLIN, LASHINGER, E. Z. TAYLOR, FREEMAN, MICHLOVIC, KENNEY, BURD, CIVERA, WOGAN, DIETTERICK, CESSAR, ANGSTADT, MlCOZZlE and TELEK

An Act providing for the observance of May 27 of each year as Rachel Carson Day.

Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, October 16, 1989.

No. 1994 By Representative BURNS

An Act limiting the working hours of resident physicians.

Referred to Committee on PROFESSIONAL LICEN- SURE, October 16, 1989.

No. 1995 By Representatives RYBAK, YANDRISEVITS, GRUPPO, McHALE, PRESSMANN, J . L. WRIGHT, BILLOW, DIETTERICK, MORRIS, PRESTON, PESCI, COLAIZZO, BUNT, HALUSKA, MELIO, JOHNSON, B. SMITI-I, ITKIN,

COLAFELLA, BELFANTI, CORRIGAN, LAUGHLIN, BUSH, MICOZZIE, HERMAN, E . Z. TAYLOR, GIGLIOTTI, LINTON. LEVDANSKY. VROON. MERRY, WOGAN, HAGARTY, KASUNIC, MAINE, SERAFlNl and BIRMELIN

An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes, further providing for markings at deer cross- ing areas.

Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, October 16, 1989.

No. 1996 By Representatives COWELL, DeWEESE, DeLUCA, FREEMAN, KAISER, COLAIZZO, COHEN, BISHOP, 1. TAYLOR, BELFANTI, WAMBACH, PISTELLA, ITKIN, LASHINGER, COLAFELLA, MICHLOVIC, BLAUM, VEON, LEVDANSKY, HAYDEN, KOSINSKI, McNALLY, CALTAGIRONE, RITTER, LaGROTTA, MAINE, WOZNIAK, LINTON, VAN HORNE, KASUNIC, KUKOVICH, HUGHES, BILLOW, GIGLIOTTI, LAUGHLIN, RAYMOND, RYBAK, PRESSMANN, FEE, MORRIS, WESTON, O'BRIEN, WOGAN, KENNEY and MlCOZZlE

An Act providing for agency sllop in political subdivisions.

Referred to Committee on LABOR RELATIONS, October 16, 1989.

No. 1997 By Representatives PETRONE, OLASZ, ITKIN, PISTELLA, ROBINSON, GIGLIOTTI, COWELL, PRESTON, MURPHY and McNALLY

An Act amending the act of August 24, 1961 (P. L. 1135, No. SOU), referred to as the "First Class A School District Earned Income Tax Act," further providing for powers and duties of treasurer and for interest and penalties.

Referred to Committee on FINANCE, October 16, 1989.

No. 1998 By Representatives PRESSMANN, COWELL. ITKIN. NOYE. KUKOVICH. - - -

COLAFELLA, E . Z. TAYLOR, TIGUE, STISH, BILLOW, MORRIS, PESCI, RYBAK, MELIO, VEON, WILLIAMS, BUSH, LASHINGER. JOSEPHS, NAHILL, LAUGHLIN, DEMPSEY, BELFANTI, HARPER, DeLUCA, McHALE, FARMER, FREEMAN, MARSICO, KASUNIC, DORR and CAPPABIANCA

1989 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 1637

An Act amending the act of March 10, 1949 (P. L. 30, No. 14), known as the "Public School Code of 1949," requiring community colleges to give option to employees who are members of the Public School Employees' Retirement System to purchase group health insurance for a certain period of time.

Referred to Committee on EDUCATION, October 16, 19R9

No. 1999 By Represenlalives JOHNSON, E. Z. TAYLOR, CAPPABIANCA, GEIST, BELFANTI, VROON, MELIO, HERSHEY, DIETTERICK, SCHULER, PESCI, ANGSTADT, HECKLER, JOSEPHS, TIGUE, VEON, JACKSON, NAHILL, RUDY, KUKOVICH, BILLOW, O'BRIEN, BELARDI, SAURMAN, McHALE, ITKIN, MAINE, DORR, SERAFINI, OLASZ and FOX

An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for inter- preters for deaf persons selected as jurors.

Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, October 16, 1989.

No. 2000 By Representatives DALEY and ROBINSON

An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes, providing for judicial review.


No. 2001 By Representatives GAMBLE, McVERRY, PISTELLA, TRELLO, LEVDANSKY, PETRONE. GIGLIOTTI, ITKIN and CESSAR

An Act amending the act of July 28, 1953 (P. L. 723, No. 2301, known as the "Second Class County Code," further providing for the location and storage of public records, for fees for copying certain public records, lor expenses of county officers for attending annual association meetings, for publication of the controller's report, for conlracts in emergency situations, for contracts not requiring advertisement and building, for the gor- erning body and powers of a residential linance authority, for grave markers, for separate specifications and contracts for certain items, for the appointment of assistant fire marshals, and for the title acquired in condemnation proceedings; and making an editorial change.

Referred to Committee on LOCAL GOVERNMENT, October 16, 1989.

No. 2002 By Representative SEMMEI.

An Act designating the bridge on which Main Street crosses Trout Creek in the Borough of Slatington, Lehigh County, as the General Thomas R . Morgan Bridge.


No. 2003 By Representatives TRICH, DeWEESE, COLAIZZO, MELIO, TANGRETTI, ROBINSON, FOX, NAHILL., SERAFINI,

FREIND. BELARDI. PISTELLA. B. D. CLARK and WILLIAMS

An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes, further providing for revocation or suspension of operating privilege.


No. 2004 By Representatives SCRIMENTI, MRKONIC, DOMBROWSKI, CAPPABIANCA, MAINE, PISTE1.I.A. OLASZ, JACKSON, VEON, COHEN, KOSINSKI, RAYMOND, TRICH, KUKOVICH, JOHNSON, HALUSKA, TRELLO, TANGRETTI, CORRIGAN, PESCI, E. Z. TAYLOR, MORRIS, STABACK, WILLIAMS, PETRARCA, McNALLY, MELIO, LAUGHLIN, TIGUE, DeLUCA, BILLOW, JAMES, CIVERA, LASHINGER, PRESTON and ANGSTADT

An Act deslgnat~ng Interstate Route 90 as the AMVETS Memorial Highway.


No. 2005 By Representatives SERAFINI, COHEN, PESCI, GODSHALL, GIGLIOTTI, HALUSKA, BELARDI, MRKONIC, KASUNIC, KOSINSKI, GEIST, MORRIS, MELIO, TlGUE and CAPPABIANCA

An Act providing for admission to any Statc-owned or State- operated facility for physically impaired minors.

Referred to Committee on HEALTH AND WELFARE, October 16. 1989.

BILLS REMOVED FROM TABLE

'The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader, Robert O'Donnell from Philadelphia.

Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that the following bills be taken from the table and placed on the active calendar:

HB 521; HB 995; HB 1179; HB 1242; and HB 1961.

On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to.


The House ~roceeded to third consideration of HB 876. 1 BlLL REMOVED FROM TABLE

CALENDAR

BILLS ON THIRD CONSIDERATION

PN 2028, entitled:

Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to.

An Act amending Title 34 (Game) of the Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes, further providing for the powers and duties of Game Commission officers.

On the question, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration?

BILL RECOMMITTED

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 1023 be

removed from the cable so that i t can be placed on the active calendar on the first legislative day.

On the question, Will the House agree to the motion?

I Motion was agreed to. * * *

ations Committee.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 876 on

page 2 of today's calendar be recommitted to the Appropri-

On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to.

The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 1329, PN 1537, entitled:

* * *


An Act regulating auto insurance surcharge rates.


BILL RECOMMITTED

An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) or the Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes, providing for tire tread depth on school buses.


BlLL REXOMMITTED

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 1329,

PN 1537, on page 6 be recommitted to the Appropriations Committee for the purpose of a fiscal note.

On the uuestion, Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 510 on I BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS PASSED OVER

page 2 be recommitted to the Rules Committee

On thequestion, Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to.

1 * *


An Act amending Title 23 (Domestic Relations) of the Penn- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, adding provisions relating to domestic relations; making conforming amendments to Titles 18 and 42; and repealing certain acts and parts of acts supplied by the act or otherwise obsolete.

On thequestion, Will the Housc agree to the bill on third consideration?

TheSPEAKEK. Thc (:hair recognize5 thc majority leader. Mr. 0'DONNEI.I.. Mr. Speaker, I movc that HB 1023 on

page 3 of today's calcndar hc placed upon the table.

On the question,

The SPEAKER. Today's voting schedule, as announced by the majority leader, consists of HB 1305 on page 2 and HE 176onpage3.

Without objection, the balance of today's calendar - bills and resolutions - will go over in order. The Chair hears no objection.

LEAVES OF ABSENCE

The SPEAKER. Are there leaves o f absence to be requested from the majority party? The Chair recognizes the majority whip, Representative DeWeese from Greene County, for the purpose of leaves.

Mr. DeWEESE. Mr. Speaker, the only leave for today is for the gentleman from Erie, Mr. SCRIMENTI, and it is only a temporary leave. He is on his way in. I t is a temporary leave for Mr. Scrimenti.

The SPEAKER. Wilhout objection, the temporary leave for Representative Scrimenti from Erie County brill be granted. The Chail hears no objcction.

Are there leaves of absence to be requehted from the minority party? The Chair recognizes the minority whip, Rep- resentative Hayes, for the purpose of leave?.

1989 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 1639

Mr. HAYES. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 1 request a leave for the gentleman from Delaware County,

Mr. MICOZZIE, for the week. The SPEAKER. Without objection, the leave requested

for Representative Micozzie will he granted. The Chair hears no objection.

MASTER ROLL CALL

The SPEAKER. The Chair is about to take the master roll. Members are t o indicate their presence in the Assembly hall by voting "yea" on the master roll call. Members are to indicate their presence by voting "yea." Members will proceed to vote.

The following roll call was recorded:

PRESENT-201

Acosta Dombrowski Langtry Rieger Adolph Donatucci Lashinger Ritter Allen Dorr Laughlin Robbins Angstadt Durham Lee Robinson Argall Evans Leh Roebuck Barley Fairchild Lescovitz Rudy Battisto Fargo Letterman Ryan Belardi Farmer Levdansky Rybak Belfanti Fee Linton Saloom Billow Fleagle Lloyd Saurman Birmelin Flick Lucyk Scheetz Bishop Foster McCall Schuler Black Fox McHale Semmel Blaurn Freeman McNally Serafini Bortner Freind McVerry Smith, B. Bowley Gallen Maiale Smith, S. H. Boyer Gamble Maine Snyder, D. W. Brandt Cannon Markosek Snyder, G . Broujos Geist Marsico Staback Bunt George Mayernik Stairs Burd Cigliotti Melio Steighner Burns Gladeck Merry Stish Bush Godshall Michlovic Strittmatter Caltagirone Gruitza Miller Stuban Cappabianca Gruppo Moehlmann Tangretti Carlson Hagarty Morris Taylor, E. Z. Carn Haluska Mowers Taylor, F. Cawley Harper Mrkonic Taylor, J. Cessar Hasay Murphy Telek Chadwick Hayden Nahill Thomas Civera Hayes Nailor Tigue Clark, B. D. Heckler Noye Trello Clark. D. F. Herman O'Brien Trich Clark. J. H. Hershey O'Donnell Van Horne Clymer Hess Olasz Veon Cohen Howlett Oliver Vroon Colafella Hughes Perzel Wambach Colaizzo ltkin Pesci Wars Cole Jackson Petrarca Weston Cornell Jadlowiec Petrone Williams Corrigan James Phillips Wilson Cowell Jaralin Piccola Wogan COY Johnson Pievsky Wozniak DeLuca Jo~ephs Pistella Wright, D. R. DeWeese Kaiser Pitts Wright, J. L. Daley Kasunic Pressman" Wright, R. C. Davies Kenney Preston Yandrisevits Dempsey Kondrich Raymond Dietterick Kosinski Reber Manderino, Dininni Kukovich Reinard Speaker Dirtler LaGrotta Richardson

ADDITIONS-0

NOT VOTING-0

Micozzie Scrimenti

LEAVES CANCELED-I

WELCOMES

The SPEAKER. The Chair is happy to welcome to the hall of the House this afternoon Steve Kundla and Sandy Dill from Indiana County. Mr. Kundla received the Volunteer Award on this day for the World Food Day for Indiana County. Sandy is the food program coordinator. They are here as the guests of Paul Wass and are to the left of the Speaker. Will both of them stand, please.

The Chair is happy to welcome Kristen Bernardyn and Jeanette Mulligan, government students at Marian High School. They are here today as the guests of Representative Lucyk, and they are to the left of the Speaker. Will they please stand.

Also today the Chair is happy to welcome Jim Mintzer of Lehigh University and Merrilee Hagaman and Liz Clark, both of Lafayette College. They are student interns. They are working with Representative Robert Freeman of North- ampton County. They are located in the gallery. Will they be received by the House.

MISS PENNSYLVANIA-USA PRESENTED

The SPEAKER. We have with us this afternoon Miss Penn- sylvania of 1990. She was chosen Miss Pennsylvania in March of 1989. Her name is Elizabeth Cehak. She is here with us in Harrisburg as the guest of the House and Representative David Mayernik. She hails from Allegheny County, and 1 would like to introduce not only Miss Cebak hut Representa- tive Mayernik, who will do the honors. Representative Mayernik.

Mr. MAYERNIK. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to announce to the General

Assembly and introduce one of my constituents - Elizabeth Cebak. Elizabeth is the reigning Miss Pennsylvania-USA since March of 1989.

At age 22 Elizabeth is a senior at the University of Pittsburgh studying media communications. After she receives her bachelor's, she intends to continue her education at the University of Pittsburgh attending graduate school and majoring in English. Elizabeth is representing Pennsylvania in February of 1990 in Hawaii where we wish her our best in becoming the next Miss Pennsylvania-USA and Miss USA for the entire Nation.

I would like t o present a citation to Elizabeth and have her say a few words.

Miss CEBAK. Hello. I would like to thank you very much for having me here today. It is certainly a great honor to rep-


resent a State which I am very proud of , and I am sure each and every one of you share that excitement with me representing your State as well.

I began my reign about 4 months ago as a representative of the State o f Pennsylvania, but eventually I did develop into being known more as a spokesperson for my generation and what vouth has to offer our State since we will eventuallv

~ ~

make quite a substantial contribution to our economic status in our communities.

Basically what 1 have been doing during my reign as Miss Pennsylvania is addressing my peers on the issues of entrepreneurial businesses and how we can utilize our particular interests and talents into a marketable business, and not only help the job markets in our communities but perhaps d o something about particular areas that may have a monopoly surrounding them at the time.

Basically, my message to you is that we cannot possibly invest enough time in our youth today. They need an incredible amount of direction, and it might be peace of mind to know that the people that eventually will take each one of our places in the near future have had input from yourself in the knowledge and experience you have gained over the years. It is amazing that a few minutes, 5 minutes of our time can be an incredible amount of knowledge and education for them to draw back on from time to time as they undergo the dreams and aspirations that they have been working towards.

O n that point I would like to thank you again for having me and David Mayernik for inviting me this afternoon. It has been quite a pleasure. Thank you very much.

The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks Representative Mayernik. The Chair congratulates Miss Pennsylvania and wishes her the best in her reign.

BILLS ON THIRD CONSIDERATION CONTINUED I

Belfanti Billow Birmelin Bishop Black Blaum Bortner Bowley Bover

Fee Fleagle Flick Foster Fox Freeman Freind Gallen Gamble

I.inton Saloom Lloyd Saurman Lucyk S c h e e t ~ McCall Schuler McHale Semmel hlcNally Serafini McVerry Smith, B. Maiale Smith, S. H. Maine Snyder. D. W

~randt Gannon Markorek ~n),der, G . Broujoi Geist Mariico Staback Bunt George Mayernik Stairs Burd Gieliotti Melio Steighner Burns Gladeck Merry Stish Bush Codshall Michlovic Strittmatter Caltagirone Gr~litza Miller Stuban Cappabianca GrUppo Moehlmann Tangretti ~aiison Carn Cawley Cessar Chadwick Civera Clark, B. D. Clark. D. F. Clark. J. H. Clylllcr Cohen Colafella Colairro Cole Cornell Corrigan Cowell COY DeLuca DeWeese Daley Davies Dempsey Dietterick Dininni Distler

Hagarty Haluska Haiper Haiay Hayden Hayes Heckler Herman Hershey Hess Howlett Hughes ltkin Jackson Jadlowiec James Jarolin Johnson Josephs Kaiser Kasunic Kenney Kondrich Kosinski Kukovich LaGrotta

Morris Mowery Mrkonic Murphy Nahill Nailor Noye O'Brien O'Donnell Olasz Oliver Perrel Pesci Petrarca Petrane Phillips Piccola Pievsky Pistella Pilts Pressmann Preston Raymond Reber Reinard Richardson

NAY S-0

NOT VOTING-0

EXCUSED-2 The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 1305,

PN 1508, entitled: Micozzie Scrimenti

An Act amending the act of December 31, 1965 (P. L. 1257, No. 51 I), known as "The Local Tax Enabling Act," further providing for delegation of taxing powers.

O n the question, Will the House agree to the bill o n third consideration? Bill was agreed to.

T h e SPEAKER. This bill has been considered o n three different days and agreed to and is now on final passage.

The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Agreeable to the provisions o f the Constitution, the yeas

and nays will now be taken.

YEAS-201

Acosta Dombrowski Langtry Adolph Donatucci 1,arhinger Allen Dorr Laughlin Angstadt Durham Lee Argall Evans Lch Barley Fairchild Lescovitz Bauista Fargo Letterman Belardi Farmer Lerdanskv

Rieger Ritter Robbinr Robinson Roebuck Rudy Ryan Rvbak

~aylor, E. 2. Taylor, F. Taylor, J. Telek Thomas Tigue Trello Trich Van Horne Veon vroon Wambach Wass Weston Williams Wilson Wogan Wazniak Wright, D. R. Wright, J . L. Wright, R. C. Yandrisevits

Manderino. Speaker

The majority required by the Constitution having voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative and the bill passed finally.

Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for concurrence.

BILLS REPORTED FROM COMMITTEE, CONSIDERED FIRST TIME, AND TABLED

HB 722, PN 2595 (Amended) By Rep. CALTAGIRONE

An Act amending Title I8 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Penn- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for confiscation of certain vehicles used in scattering rubbish in cities of the first class.

JUDICIARY.

HB 836, PN 954 By Rep. CALTAGIRONE

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

An Act amending the act o f April 9, 1929 (P. L. 177, No. 1751, known as "The Administrative Code of 1929," providing for protection services for child victims and witnesses in cities of the first class; and authorizing grants for such services.

JUDICIARY.


An Act amending the act of April 14, 1972 (P. L. 233, No. 64), known as "The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cos- metic Act," classifying anabolic steroids as a Schedule I1 controlled substance.

JUDICIARY.


An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing exclusions from exemptions from process.

JUDICIARY.

HB 1826, PN 2335 By Rep. CALTAGIRONE An Act amending Title I3 (Commercial Code) of the Pennsyl-

vania Consolidated Statutes, conforming the text of the title to the current official text of the Uniform Commercial Code relating to uncertificated securities.

JUDICIARY.


An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for additional judges.

JUDICIARY.

SB 484, PN 508 By Rep. CALTAGIRONE An Act amending the act of August 11, 1967 (P. L. 205, No.

69). entitled "An act to validate conveyances and other instru- ments which have been defectively acknowledged," extending the effectiveness of the act.

JUDICIARY.

BILL REPORTED AND REREFERRED TO COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT

O n the question, Will the House agree t o the bill o n third consideration? Mr. DALEY offered the following amendments No.

A3188:

Amend Title, page 1 , lines 1 through 3, by striking out all of said lines and inserting

providing for a witness assistance program for witnesses of crimes in this Commonwealth.

Amend Bill, page 1, lines 6 through 18; page 2, lines I through 4, by striking out all of said lines on said pages and inserting Section 1. Legislative findings, declaration and intent.

The General Assembly finds and declares as follows: (1) There is a need to d e v e l o ~ methods to reduce the . .

trauma and insensitive treatment that witnesses may experience in the wake of a crime, since all too oftcn citizens who become involved with the criminal justice system as witnesses to crime, are treated inconsiderately by that system.

(2) Witnesses must make arrangements to appear in court regardless of their own schcdulcs, child care responsibil- ities or transportation problems, and they often find long waits, crowded courthouse hallways and confusing circum- stances, and after testifying, receive no information as to the disposition of the case.

(3) A large number of witnesses are unaware of both their rights and obligations.

(4) It is, therefore, the intent of the General Assembly to provide services to meet the needs of witnesses of crime through the funding of local comprehensive centers for witness assistance.

Section 2. Witness Assistance Fund. There is hereby established in the State Treasury the Witness

Assistance Fund. Funds paid into this fund shall be dispensed to the Office of the Attorney General exclusively for the purposes specified in this act. Section 3. Funds available and awarded to public and private

nonprofit agencies; report to General Assem- bly.

(a) Funds.-Funds from the Witncss Assistance Fund shall be made available through the Office of the Attorney General to any public or private nonprofit agency for the assistance of witnesses which provides comprehensivr services to witnesses of all types o f crimes. It is the intent o f the General Assembly to make funds available only to programs which do not restrict services to witnesses of a narticular tvnc of crime. , .

(b) Awarding funds-The Office of the Attorney General shall consider the following factors, together with any other cir- cumstances it deems appropriate, in a\\arding funds to public or vrivate nonurofit agencies designated a5 witness assistance

I . , . .

JUDICIARY. the community. (4) Evidence of community support.

HB 1802, PN 2276 By Rep. CALTAGIRONE An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure)

of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further defining "municipal police officer."

~ ~~

( 5 ) The organizational structore of the agency which BILLS ON THIRD will operate the center.

CONSIDERATION CONTINUED (c) Evaluation o f ccntrrs-The Office o f the Attornev

centers: (1) The capability of the agency to provide comprehen~

sive services, (2) The stated goals and objectives o f the center. (3) The number of neoole to bc served and the needs o f

, . General shall conduct an evaluation of the activities and perform-

The House proceeded t o third consideration of HB 176, PN ance of the agencies receiving funds pursuant to this act. 195. entitled: Section 4. Activities in connection with primary and optional

An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pcnn- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for the grading and offense of a former convict not to own a firearm.

services. In order to insure the effective delivery o f comprehensive ser-

vices to witnesses, an agency receiving funds pursuant to this act shall carry out all of the follawing activities in connection with bath primary and optional services:

1642 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

(I) Translation services for non-English-speaking witnesses or hearing-impaired witnesses.

(2) Follow-up contact to determine whether the client received the necessary assistance.

(3) Field visits to a client's home, place of business or other location, whenever necessqry to provide services.

(4) Services to witnesses of all types of crimes. ( 5 ) Volunteer participation to encourage community

involvement. Section 5. Primary and optional services.

(a) Primary services.-Comprehensive services shall include all of the following primary services:

(I) Emergency assistance for the direct or indirect provision of food, housing, clothing, and, when necessary, cash.

(2) Direct counseling of the witness on problems result- ing from the crime.

( 3 Orientation to the criminal justice system. (4) Court escort. (5) Presentations to and training of criminal justice

system agencies. (6) Public presentations and publicity. (7) Monitoring appropriate court cases to keep wit-

nesses apprised of the progress and outcome of their case. (8) Notification to the employer of the witness, if

requested by the witness, informing the employer that the employee was a witness to a crime and asking the employer to minimize any loss of pay or other benefits which may result because of the employee's participation in the criminal justice system. (b) Optional services.-Comprehensive services may include

the following optional services, i f their provision does not pre- clude the efficient provision of primary services:

(I) Employer intervention. (2) Creditor intervention. (3) Child care. (4) Notification to witnesses of any change in the court

calendar. (5) Crime prevention information. (6) Witness protection, including arranging for law

enforcement protection or relocating witnesses in new resi- dences.

(7) Assistance in obtaining temporary restraining orders.

(8) Transportation. (9) Provision of a waiting area, during court proceed-

ings, separate from defendants and families and friends of defendants.

Section 6. Standards for activities and services; effectiveness of agencies.

(a) Standards.-The Office of the Attorney General, in cooperation with representatives from local witness assistance agencies, shall develop standards defining the activities and services enumerated under this act^ .... . . ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~....

(b) Reviews.-The Office of the Attorney General, in cooperation with renresentatives from local witness assistance anen- cies, shall deveiop a method of evaluating the activities and per- formance of receiving funds under this act. Section 7 . ~o lun t a rv contribution svstem -~~~~~~ ~~~

(a) Tax return.-The Department of Revenue shall provide a space on the face of the Pennsylvania individual income tax return form whereby an individual may voluntarily designate a contribution of $I to the Witness Assistance Fund established by this act.

(b) Deduct for refund.-The amount so designated by an individual on the income tax return form shall be deducted from the tax refund to which such individual is entitled and shall not constitute a charge against the income tax revenues due the Com- monwealth.

(c) Transfer to fund.-The Department of Revenue shall determine annually the total amount designated pursuant to this section and shall report such amount to the State Treasurer, who shall transfer such amount from the General Fund to the Witness Assistance Fund. The Department of Revenue shall be reimbursed from the fund for any administrative costs incurred above and beyond the cost savings it realizes as a result of individual total refund designations.

(d) lnstructiotls for returns.-The Department of Revenue shall provide adequate information concerning the fund in its instructions which accompany State income tax return forms.

(e) Tax years,-This section shall apply to taxable years beginning on or after January I , 1989. Section 8. Effective date.

This act shall take effect in @days.

On the question, Will the House agree to the amendments?

AMENDMENTS WITHDRAWN

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Washington, Repre- sentative Daley, requests recognition on the amendment.

Mr. DALEY. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The purpose of this amendment is t o establish a witness

assistance program in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. We are having some discussions at this point in terms of what is actually established in Pennsylvania at the option of various district attorneys. During that conference I think I have been enlightened to the point where I think it is a necessity for me to withdraw this amendment at this time until I make sure that my needs are being addressed, and I think that they may have been, so I d o not want to put the legislature through an exercise in futility, Mr. Speaker, so 1 do withdraw the amendment.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Daley, indicates that the amendment that was to be offered is being withdrawn.

On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the hill on third consideration?

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Allegheny, Mr. Michlovic, have an amendment to this hill?

Mr. MICHLOVIC. Yes, I do, Mr. Speaker. I gave it to the amendment clerk a few minutes ago.

The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. The House will be at ease.

WELCOME

The SPEAKER. While the House is at ease, i t gives the Speaker much pleasure to introduce to the members of the House this afternoon the president of Pennsylvania's Soft Drink Association. Now. the rentleman is sitting lo the left of . - the Speaker on the rostrum with his wife, Nan, and his daughter, Wendy. He sits there not because he is president of Pennsylvania's Soft Drink Association but because he is a personal friend of the Speaker - Pete Cameron of Cameron Coca-Cola.

The Chair does not want t o slight the Washington County delegation, who also are sponsoring the appearance here of Peter Cameron. The family is the guest of the Washington County delegation.

- who manufaiturcrs. $ells or ouns the assaulr wzapon may. In the court's discretion, thereafvr join the action as amicu, curiae.

1644 LEGISLATIVE

copy can not be found to be within the meaning of this para- graph.

(2) A firearm first manufactured or sold to the general public in Pennsylvania 90 days after the effective date of this subchapter, which has been redesigned, renamed or renum- bered from one of the firearms listed in section 6181, or which is manufactured or sold by another company under a licensing agreement to manufacture or sell one of the firearms listed therein regardless of the company of production or distribu- tion, or the country of origin. (b) Declaration of temporary suspension.-Upon the issu-

ance of a declaration of temporary suspension by the court and after the Attorney General has completed the notice requirements of subsection (c)(l), the provisions of subsection (a) shall apply with respect to those weapons.

(c) Notice.- (1) Upon declaration of temporary suspension, the

Attorney General shall immediately notify all police, sheriffs, district attorneys and those requesting notice pursuant to subsection (d), shall notify industry and association publications for those who manufacture, sell or use firearms, and shall publish notice in not less than ten newspapers of general circu- lation in geographically diverse sections of this Common- wealth of the fact that the declaration has been issued.

(2) The Attorney General shall maintain a list of any persons who request to receive notice of any declaration of temporary suspension and shall furnish notice under para- graph (I) to all these persons immediately upon a court declaration. Notice shall also be furnished by the Attorney General by certified mail, return receipt requested (or substantial equivalent if the person to receive same resides outside the United States), to any known manufacturer and Pennsylvania distributor of the weapon subject of the temporary suspension order or their statutory agent for service. The notice shall be deemed effective upon mailing. (d) Hearing.-After issuing a declaration of temporary sus-

pension under this section, the court shall set a date for hearing on a permanent declaration that the weapon is an assault weapon. The hearing shall be set no later than 30 days from the date of issuance of the declaration of temporary suspension. The hearing may be continued for good cause thereafter. Any manufacturer or Pennsylvania distributor of the weapon which is the subject of the temporary suspension order has the right, within 20 days of notification of the issuance of the order, to intervene in the action. Any manufacturer or Pennsylvania distributor who fails to timely exercise its right of intervention, or any other nerson

(e) Burden of proof.-At the hearing, the burden of proof is upon the Attorney General to show by a preponderance of evidence that the weapon which is the subject of the declaration of temporary suspension is an assault weapon. If the court finds the weaDon to be an assault weauon it shall issue a declaration

JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

(b) Certain sales, transfers, etc.-No assault weapon possessed pursuant to this section may be sold or transferred on or after 90 days following the effective date of this subchapter, to anyone within this Commonwealth other than to a licensed gun dealer, as defined herein. Any person who:

(1) obtains title to an assault weapon registered under this section by bequest or intestate succession;

(2) moves into this Commonwealth in lawful possession of an assault weapon; or

(3) lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault weapon under this subchapter;

shall, within 90 days, either render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer or remove the weapon from this Commonwealth. A person who lawfully possessed a firearm which was subsequently declared to be an assault weapon under section 6182 (relating to determination of court) may alternatively register the firearm within 90 days of that declaration.

(c) Conditions of possession.-A person who has registered an assault weapon under this section may possess it only under the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses is first obtained:

(1) At that person's residence, place of business, or other property owned by that person, or on property owned by another with the owner's express permission.

(2) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.

(3) While on a target range which holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.

(4) While on the premises of a shooting club. (5) While attending any exhibition, display or educa-

tional project which is about firearms and which is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or State recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.

(6) While transporting the assault weapon between any of the places mentioned in this subsection.

No person who is under 18 years of age, no person who is prohibited from possessing a firearm by this chapter may register or possess an assault weapon. The registration procedures shall provide the option of joint registration for assault weapons owned by family members residing in the same household. B 6184. Relinquishment of weapons.

5 6185. ~icensed gun dealers. (a) General rule.-Any licensed gun dealer, as defined in

subsection (b). who lawfully uossesses an assault weaDon under this subchapt'ei;in additio; to the uses allowed hereunder, may transport the weapon between dealers or out of this Common-

in effect during the pendency of the appeal unless ordered otherwise by the appellate court. 5 6183. Registration.

(a) General rule.-Any person who lawfully possesses an assault weapon, prior 90 days after the effective date of this subchapter, shall register the firearm within one year of that effective date, with the Attorney General to those procedures which the Office of Attornev General mav establish. The reeistration shall

theriof. Any part) to the marrc; ma). appeal the court'\ decision. A declaration that rhc weapon is an assaulr weapon shall remain

- contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the full name, address, date of birth, and thumbprint of the owner, and any other information as the department may deem appropriate. The department may

uealrh. dlsplay i t i t an). gun rhou li:en,ed by a State or local gov- ernmonral entity. rrll i t to a rr,iJznt outside [hi$ Commonwealth.

charge a fee for registration of up to $20 per person but not to exceed the actual processing costs of the department.

or sell it to a person who as been issued a permit pursuant to this subchapter. Any transporting allowed by this section must be done as required by this subchapter.

(b) Definition.-The term "licensed gun dealer," as used in this article means a person who has a Federal firearms license and any business license required by a State or local governmental entity. 5 6186. Penalties.

(a) Unlawful manufacture, importation, etc.-Any person who within this Commonwealth manufactures or causes to be manufactured, dirtriburec, rransportr or importr into thir Com- monucalrh, keeps for sale. or offers or exposes lor sale, or uho gives or lends any assault weapon, except as provided by this subchapter, is guilty of a felony of the third degree.


Thls subchapter shall not apply to the use or possession of It! assault weapons by State or local law enforcement agencies, the Mr. MICHLOVIC. Mr. Speaker, I believe the purpose of military forces of this Commonwealth or the Armed Forces of the that nrovision is really t o discourage people from the owner-

(b) Unlawful possession.-Any person possessing an assault weapon in violation of this subchapter commits a misdemeanor of the first degree for a first offense, and a felony of the third degree for each subsequent offense. 6 6187. Application of subchapter.

the Attorney General's Office. What is the purpose of putting this information - the fingerprinting and the registration - ,,,hat is the purpose of keeping this information with the Attorney General in his office, and what is he going to do with . *

On the question, Will the House agree to the amendments?

united-states. Amend Sec. 2, page 2, line 4, by striking out "2" and insert-

ing 2

wish to continue to own them, then at least the Attorney General knows exactly who they are, and I think he should.

Mr. GODSHALL. So if there are 300 or 400,000 of these

ship of the weapon. If those persons who own such

devastating weapons still wish to keep them, because we do not wish to outlaw them or make it retroactive, if they still

G he SPEAKER. On that question, Representative Michlovic from Allegheny County is recognized.

Mr. MICHLOVIC. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the members on the floor will be familiar with

this amendment because it is the same one 1 introduced last week on the assault weapon ban. It is exactly the same Ian- guage, exactly the same amendment, and I am offering it to HB 176 because this bill does deal with the proper title and section of the law and there should not be a question of ger- maneness. This bill, HB 176, deals with firearms and the Criminal Code regarding the firearms. The amendment would ban a series of assault weapons, all of which are listed in the amendment. And if you recall, 1 passed on the floor last week a memo which had pictures of those assault weapons, and nothing has been changed in lhat amendment from last week.

I wanted to take this opportunity to remind this legislature that I think we have an opportunity today to do something very important in the battle against drugs in this Common- wealth, and that is to take the weapons out of the drug trade. here are those who may question whether this falls under a constitutional provision on right to bear arms and the such, and I remind you that these are weapons of war. In fact, even in the Digest of Guns they list these as military and police weapons. These are weapons of war just like hand grenades, just like bazookas, like other kinds of war materials.

I would ask that this House vote for the amendment and get on with the business of taking out the terrible devastation that these weapons place on our constituents throughout the Corn- monwealth. Thank you.

The SPEAKER. On whether or not the House will agree to the amendnlent, the Chair recognizes, from Montgomery County, Representative Godshall.

Mr. GODSHALL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to interrogate the maker of the amendment. The SPEAKER. He indicates that he will stand for inter-

rogation. You may procced. Mr. GODSHALL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are a couple points that I would like to cover which 1

did no1 have a chance to hecausc o f the quickness of the amendment in receiving it and running it last week, but I would like to cover them with the maker of the amendment.

One is on page 4 pertaining to the registration. I believe it requires that all such guns be registered and the person who owns the guns be fingerprinted and the registration held by

guns owned by law-abiding Pennsylvanians, you are going to keep their names and fingerprints in the Attorney General's Office so he knows who those 400 or 500,000 people are. Is that correct?

M,. MICHLOVIC. I would strongly disagree with your numbers of 300 and 400,000 Pennsylvanians who own assault weapons. I think the Pennsylvanians ultimately who own assault weaponsare drug lords.

M,, GODSHALL. ~ h ~ t is the end of my interrogation. 1 would like t o make a comment on the amendment.

~h~ SPEAKER. ~h~ gentleman is in order and may proceed,

MI. GODSHALL. ~ h ~ ~ k you, Mr. Speaker. Last week 1 believe we covered the fact that the courts

under this amendment could extensively increase the list of guns which are outlawed well over and beyond the types that are listed here. We also covered the fact that there is a clause in here that if there is a look-alike gun or a similar gun, we do not know who is going to make that determination, but again, those guns could be eliminated from use by legitimate sportsmen. we now find that there is a registration clause in here which means, again, that the legitimate sportsman or gunowner will be required to the guns and he fingerprinted,

I would like to call your attention to a U.S. Supreme Court case-l think this is important-the U.S. Supreme Court case which came down in 1968 in H~~~~~ v. united states, which said, quote, "A person possessing a firearm illegally could not be prosecuted for failing to register that firearm under the registration provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934. such a person, in registering, would be subject to possible self-incrimination. The Fifth Amendment protects an individual from having to run such a risk," end of quote.

So what we are saying here is that under a Supreme Court ruling, criminals are not required to register the guns but our law-abiding constituents are. That is another reason to vote "no" on this amendment.

~ i ~ ~ l l ~ , it says, "NO assault weapon-" 1 am not really the f u l l definition of weapon," but "No

assault weapon possessed pursuant t o this section may he sold or transferred on or after 90 days following the effective date of this subchapter, to anyone within this Commonwealth, ..."

then i t says, "...lawfully possessed a firearm subse.

from Luzerne County is recognized. Mr. BLAUM. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE

I think every once in a while an issue arrives on the floor of (IVAN ITKIN) IN THE CHAIR

1646 LEGISLATIVE

quently declared to be an assault weapon under this subchapter; shall, within 90 days, either render the weapon permanently inoperable,"-in other words, smash it or whatever- "sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer, ..." and I am not sure there are going to be many licensed gun dealers out there buying weapons which are not allowed to be possessed in Pennsylvania. So in effect, that g u n is going to become a worthless commodity.

So for all these reasons, I know the 3 t o 4 million gunowners in the State of Pennsylvania, the sportsmen of Pennsylvania, the NRA (National Rifle Association), and many of your constituents ask you to vote "no" on this amendment. Thank you.

The SPEAKER. The question is, will the House agree to the amendment? On that question, the gentleman from Chester, Mr. Vroon, seeks recognition on the amendment.

Mr. VROON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just a very few choice words, Mr. Speaker: A lot of you

people may wonder, why has Peter Vroon got his name on this amendment, and I just want to make it very emphatically clear why. I have an overwhelming amount of support for this amendment in my constituency on both sides of the aisle - both Democrats and Republicans - an overwhelming amount of support. 1 am reacting to my constituency. That is number one.

Number two, you come up with this kind of a remark, say, guns do not kill people; people kill people. All right; I will take you at your word for that, and 1 will say, that is what I am worried about. People will kill people with these guns. So what kind of people will kill? The kooks out there.

Let me tell you, you look at every one of these examples where somebody went out and sprayed a shopping area, people in the shopping area, and who do you find they are? They are kooky people - mentally imbalanced, emotionally disturbed people. Do you want to keep on going like that just for the pride of being able to say that we are allowed to bear arms? Then 1 would just say to you, humbug. You ought to listen to your constituents and find out what they want instead of to the very heavy special interests who want to scare you to death and say, I will not support you next time for election if you vote for this.

Let us have a good genuine vote on this, and think of your constituents. Think how you would feel if your wife and your children were walking in a shopping center or any other public place and all of a sudden one of these kooky people started spraying a gun and killed one or more o f your own loved ones. Stop and think about that and say, how proud are YOU

to identify yourself with the gun dealers and the NRA? The SPEAKER. On the amendment. Re~resentative Blaum


Up until a few days ago I assume I had a very good rating on these issues, but these guns are different. These guns, if somebody is going to commit horror on the playground with a gun, that is had enough. With one of these cannons, they are going to take down two to three dozen people before someone or something can get to them. I think that is what makes this amendment different. This is not gun control. This is semiautomatic- and automatic-military-attack-weapon control. I think in Pennsylvania we have a responsibility-the 203 of us-to stand up and say, this is not gun control. We get to say, we get to say-the 203 of us-we get to say what is gun control, and this is not.

We also have a chance today to stand up and say that these weapons, as Representative Michlovic very courageously described them, these weapons are totally different, totally different, and those that have them are going to be able to keep them. What we do not want to do is allow any future sales of these kinds of weapons. They are simply totally different than anything that our sportsmen, that our constituents, are accustomed to.

1 would ask the members of the House to approve it, remembering again that what separates this from gun control is that if horror is going to be committed, a number of people-and we do not know what the ages of those people are going to be-a number of those people are going to be taken down before the perpetrator of that crime can be subdued. That is what makes it different, and that is why we should approve this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER. On the amendment, Representative Gamble from Allegheny County is recognized.

Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Speaker, after much soul searching and after having talked to some of the sportsmen in my district, I rise to support this amendment. I hope that my fellow members in the General Assembly are not misled by the oppo- sition of the NRA and the sportsmen, because they do not speak, I know, for the majority of sportsmen, especially in my district, because the ones I talked to are a good reading of how the people in my district feel.

These are not rifles that we hunt with nor are they target pistols. These are assault weapons, as Representative Blaum has just stated to you. There is no correlation between this and are you antigun or are you not. I am not antigun, hut 1 am anti-war weapons in the hands of people that should not have them, and I think this is a good and decent vote for the citizens of Pennsylvania. Vote "yes."

The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman.

The Chair asks Representative Itkin from Allegheny County to preside for the Speaker in the Speaker's absence.

this House-which is the right place-and it arrives at the right time, and 1 believe that this amendment arrives on the floor of this House at the right time and that it should be approved.

~ h , SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair now recognizes the from perry, M ~ , N ~ ~ ~ ,

N O Y ~ , Thank you, M ~ , speaker,


Once again we find ourselves referring to some unfortunate incidents that have occurred throughout this country on occa- sion to hype the emotions of people on the issue. The issue is simply the individuals involved in the perpetration of those crimes and why those individuals were able to obtain those weapons. We had all the laws on the books necessary to curtail what happened, but there are those people out there who involve themselves in illegal activities, and no amount of law is going to prohibit an individual from obtaining a weapon to carry out those kinds of crimes if they are so inclined to do so.

We are right back to square one on the basic issue here. We can put all the rhetoric we want on the record. None of us wants to see those kinds of things happen, but they can happen, and even if this becomes law, those incidents can and will occur, whether it be with this kind of weapon or some other kind of weapon.

Let us not fool ourselves. The issue here is gun registration and gun control, and it is nothing more. 1 ask you to defeat the amendment.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentleman and recognizes the gentleman from Luzerne, Mr. Tigue.

Mr. TIGUE. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I stand in support of the Michlovic amend-

ment. First of all, let me say that we have heard a lot of rhetoric

about gun control - this is the first step, etcetera, etcetera, et cetera. If you look at the list of weapons that are enclosed in this amendment, you will see things like the AK-47. Currently you are not allowed to own an AK-47 anywhere in the United States. You cannot own an M-16, an AR-15 series, the Colt series listed in here, because in fact they are automatic weapons. Nothing to do with semiautomatic weapons or anything else; these are military assault weapons which no one can legally own unless they are in fact a bona fide collector. Collectors can still own weapons in accordance with this amendment. What we are saying is it is time to let us stand up and be honest. We are not selling Mattel toys, look-alike toys, to some 7-year-old. We are selling replicas of AK-47's, UZI's, and various other machine guns and assault weapons made throughout the world.

It is interesting, in fact it is sad, that the Federal Gnvern- ment prohibits the importation of a number of these weapons but they did not take the last step. They only went halfway. Why is it okay to ban the importation of some of these weapons and then say it is okay to manufacture them in the United States? Whose interest is at stake?

The NRA in its position, as Mr. Gamble said, does not represent the sportsman. It represents the gun industry, the gun lobby, the gun manufacturers. This bill is a hill dealing with the prohibition of the right to firearms by those people con- victed of drug use, drug sales, drug manufacturing.

Law enforcement people better stand up and show us where they stand so that we can protect them on the streets. If you are a law enforcement agent, whether you are DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency), State Police, et cetera, and you are

involved in drug activities, you run into these weapons. And God forbid that it is someone that is related to you, because you cannot tell if it is a replica. You cannot tell if it has been imported. You cannot tell if it is automatic or semiautomatic. 1 do not know a lot about guns, but 1 will tell you one thing: 1 can make any one of these weapons automatic in 10 minutes. That is a fact.

Let us be honest. How many of your sportsmen hunt with look-alike AK-47's? How many need them? I saw one hand go up, and I guarantee you he cannot name more than 2 out of 58,000. Let us stop the charade. Let us stand up and say, this is wrong. Will incidents as Mr. Noye said happened occur? Of course they will. That logic is specious at best. If that is the logic, we should not pass any laws, because we know when we pass a law, somebody is going to break it. We do not condone it, but we try to do what is right. We try to safeguard the public's interest.

Vote for this amendment and safeguard everyone you can. Thank you.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentleman.

On the question of agreeing to the Michlovic amendment, the Chair now recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Godshall, from Montgomery County for the second time.

Mr. GODSHALL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to clear up a couple of points.

First of all, automatic weapons have been in this country for many years, and you can own them by permit, and I think that will probably be answered afterwards. But we are not really looking at automatic weapons; we are looking at semiautomatic weapons.

As far as magazine load, somebody made the statement that the guns that are listed in this amendment are not being used by the sportsmen. There are legitimately, I believe, between 303 and 400,000 SKS rifles being used by the sportsmen in this country, not necessarily in Pennsylvania, and 1 will fully admit that that is probably one gun that you can also- It says "with detachable magazine" here. 1 think you can extend the clip, as you can extend the clip on many of the firearms that we have and that are used by the sportsmen of Pennsylvania and this country, and by extending that clip, if somebody so desires to do so, you are going to throw it into this category of weapons that is covered in this amendment right here.

So that is a couple of points that I did want to bring out. It still remains a fact that the criminal element does not go to the gun store, produce and buy a gun similar to what we are talking about here. He gets them by other means. He does not give a Social Security number, show his license, and everything else that goes with it; he gets them by other means.

So all this is doing is placing restrictions on the legitimate law-abiding gunowner and your constituents. That is exactly what it is doing, and I again ask for a "no" vote.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Allegheny, Mr. Cowell.

1648 LEGISLATIVE

Mr. COWELL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, if we were in the unfortunate position in this

Commonwealth of coming off the heels of some schoolyard tragedy Or shopping center tragedy, I suspect that a majority, at least a majority in this House, would he tripping over one another to vote in support of this kind of legislation. I would hope that rather than waiting for some tragedy to occur, where we have an opportunity to react to prove that we are concerned, we will he smart enough to act before the fact, smart enough to act so that we might help to avert a tragedy, and wecan do that by supporting this kind of legislation.

It was suggested last week that this legislation was not germane to the bill that was before us. We really were not very gutsy on that one, and we were not really very honest with ourselves. There is no ducking the issue this time. Obviously, there is a gun measure before us, and the Michlovic amendment deals with guns; in this case, weapons of war.

We talk about tragedies where some lunatic might kill a bunch of kids in a schoolyard or a bunch of senior citizens at a senior citizens center or a hunch of our neighbors on a porch in one of our communities or in a shopping center in one of our communities. This is not only a weapon that is sometimes found in the hands of the lunatic, but these are weapons of war. They are tools of the trade for some of the drug lords that we were trying to deal with in last week's legislation.

I would very much urge that we serve our citizens and also serve the law enforcement people of this Commonwealth who put their lives on the line every day of the year by supporting this kind of legislation. I think that the Michlovic legislation is not gun control. Kevin Blaum spoke very eloquently to the real issue here. We have an opportunity to he gutsy. We have an opportunity to say, this is not gun control; this is not of great concern to the real sportsmen and the hunters of this Commonwealth.

This legislation, if it is defeated, will be in the best interests of the criminal element in this State, not in the best interests of the sportsmen of this State. I would urge that we support the Michlovic amendment. Thank you.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair now recognizes thegentleman from Clearfield, Mr. George.

Mr. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to be long, because I understand how emotional this question may be. I just want to answer a couple of statements where one of the previous speakers said that this is not gun control. Well, it is evident that that individual did not research what has been going on for a lot of years in that no matter what side of the question we are on, whether we understand the constitution

or not, we keep bringing up the matter that the Constitution gives us the right to hear, own, and carry arms, and that is exactly what we should be thinking about at this moment. Sure, we are concerned about these drug lords, but we should also be further concerned that when you pass legislation such as this legislation, those drug lords can buy, possess, manufacture with their power and their money these guns that we are trying to insist that the decent law-abiding individual will no longer be able to own, possess, and carry without registration. This is not what we are all about down here.


It is emotional, things have happened, and we have read the papers, hut it is not fair to penalize the 2 or 3 million who are law-abiding because of a handful of those who could not care what kind of a law we pass. They are going to do and commit their mayhem regardless of what we do. But do not be mis- guided and do not be misrepresented to. This is a form of gun control. This is registration where they will know where that gun is and where it is being kept. This is a step closer to com- plete guncontrol.

We should defeat this amendment.

MOTION TO RECOMMIT

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Montgomery County, Mr. Fox.

Mr. FOX. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We spent approximately 9 months of the House' time on

the drug hills. There have been countless hearings; people have been involved. We have heard from every group imagi- nable, and that is why we have good hills we passed last week and we have another one before us.

We always have to find a balance between the rights of citizens to bear arms and our obligation to protect the health, safety, and general welfare. There have been no hearings on this amendment obviously, and I think a lot of citizens would like to hear from us on it, but I think it is only after careful deliberation. We have not heard from the appropriate groups that we could be hearing from, whether it he the NRA or the Pennsylvania D.A.'s (District Attorney's) Association.

Because of the fact that we should be gathering before us all information, I move to table this hill and rerefer it to the Judi- ciary Committee for the appropriate hearings it deserves. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair would like to point Out the inconsistency of the member's motion. One can either table or one can recommit.

Mr. FOX. I choose to recommit then to the Judiciary Com- mittee, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER pro temporc. The gentleman from Montgomery County makes a motion that the bill with the amendment he recommitted to the House Judiciary Commit- tee.

On the question, Will the House agree to the motion?

The SPEAKER pro tempore. On that question, the Chair

recognizes the gentleman from Montgomery, Mr. ~odsha l l . Mr. 'ODSHALL. Mr. 'peaker, like vote this

thing and get it done with and get it over with. I think that is the proper thing to do.

I am just asking- This is really not a hill; it is an amendment, you know. we are ''' recommitting. There is nothing in print at this time. It is an amendment. We cannot recommit an amendment, ' do not Can we?

The SPEAKER Pro temp0re. The thing You can do is recommit the bill with the amendment.


Mr. GODSHALL. 1 would like to urge everybody to vote "no" on the recommittal. This came up last week; it came up again; it will come up next week, so I just urge everybody to vote "no" on the recommittal and then bring the bill forward. Thank you.

On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the motion?


YEAS-31

Argall Belfanti Bowley Burd Bush Cessar Durham Farmer

Acosta Adolph Allen Angstadt Barley Battisto Bclardi Billow Birmelin Bishop Black Blaum Bonner Bayes Brand1 Broujos Bunt Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Carlson Carn Cawley Chadwick Civera Clark, B. D. Clark. D. F. Clark, I . H. Clymer Cohen Calafella Colaiuo Cole Cornell Corrigan Cowell COY DeLuca DeWeese Daley Davies Dempsey Dietterick

Micorrie

Flick Langtry FOX Lloyd Gruitza McCall ltkin McVerry Jarolin O'Brien Kaiser Robinson Kenney Rudy Kondrich Ryan

NAYS-167

Dininni LaGrotta Distler Lashinger Dombrawski Laughlin Donatucci Lee Darr Leh Evans Lescovitz Fairchild Letterman Fargo Levdansky Fee Lintan Fleagle Lucyk Faster MeHale Freeman McNally Freind Maiale Gallen Maine Gamble Markosek Cannon Marsiea Geist Mayernik George Melia Gigliotti Merry Gladeck Michlovic Godshall Miller Gruppo Moehlmann Hagarty Morris Haluska Mowery Harper Mrkonic Hasay Murphy Hayden Nahill Hayes Nailar Heckler Noye Herman O'Donnell Hershey Olasr Hess Oliver Howlett Pesci Hughes Petrarca Jackson Petrane Jadlowiec Phillips James Piccola Johnson Pievsky Josephr Pislella Kasunic Pittr Kosinski Pressman" Kukovich Preston

NOT VOTING-3

Taylor. I . Weston

EXCUSED-2

Scrimenti

Saurman Smith, B. Steighner Trich Wass Wogan Wright, D. R.

Raymond Reber Reinard Richardson Rieger Ritter Robbins Roebuck Rybak Saloom Scheetr Schuler Semmel Serafini Smith, S. H. Snyder, D. W Snyder, G. Staback Stairs Stish Strittmatter Stuban Tangletti Taylor, E. Z. Taylor, F. Telck Thomas Tigue Trello Van Horne Vean Vroon Wambach Williams Wilson Wozniak Wright. J. L. Wright, R. C. Yandrisevitr

Manderino, Speaker

The question was determined in the negative, and the motion was not agreed to.

On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendments?

The SPEAKER pro tempore. For what purpose does the gentleman from Bucks, Mr. Heckler, rise?

Mr. HECKLER. To interrogate the maker of the amendment, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. Mr. Michlovic consents to being interrogated, and, Mr. Heckler, you may proceed.

Mr. HECKLER. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, so that the members are sure that they are

clear on some of the matters you raise in your amendment, is it correct that your amendment would deal both with weapons which are semiautomatic in nature and fully automatic?

Mr. MICHLOVIC. Yes, it is, but it is only specific to those listed, and I remind the members that they were all pictured last week in the memo 1 sent to you.

Mr. HECKLER. And would it be fair to say that most of the weapons which are listed in your amendment are intended originally as military arms; in the military adaptation they would have a switch which the soldier could throw to select either semiautomatic or fully automatic fire; and in order to he sold at least in many States in this Nation, they are retrofitted in such a fashion that they are only able to be fired in a semiautomatic fashion. Is that correct?

Mr. MICHLOVIC. Yes, it is correct, and I remind you that the definitions of semiautomatic and automatic come from the Federal 1934 law on machine guns.

Mr. HECKLER. Thank you. 1 have no other questions, but I do have a few comments, if I may.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and may proceed.

Mr. HECKLER. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Several years ago this General Assembly, in what I think

was an inappropriate move, repealed our prohibition, which had been in the Pennsylvania Crimes Code for some years, against the ownership of fully automatic weapons. It used to be against the law to have fully automatic weapons in Penn- sylvania, and unfortunately, arising out of a prosecution of yome motorcycle gang members in Delaware County who had fully automatic weapons, the NRA and others persuaded us that if you had a Federal stamp, you should be able to have a fully automatic weapon, and that is the status of the law right now in Pennsylvania.

Now, I happen to personally think that is wrongheaded and wrong, and 1 would like to see us stand up and deal with that specific question. Unfortunately, this amendment bites off more than, again, in my opinion, we should he chewing in an attempt to get at some of the tools that drug dealers may use.

Now, I do not doubt that many drug dealers are going to take an UZI or an AK-47, have a gunsmith retrofit the parts that would adapt it to fully automatic fire, and have that \seapon and be ready to use it against law enforcement officers or others. It is somewhat less likely but certainly possible that people who are insane or otherwise willing to kill inno-


cent people for no good reason will use such weapons either in their fully automatic or semiautomatic capacity, although I would point out that the most tragic example we have had of that situation in Pennsylvania, the mall shooting, also I believe in Delaware County, involved a .22 rimfire automatic weapon, a weapon of which there are hundreds of thousands in this State. Representative Hess and I saw at least 15 of them knocked down at an auction here to gain funds for the Com- monwealth the other night. And they are not prohibited under this bill.

S o the tragic fact is if you have a crazy person who wants t o hurt and kill people in a shopping center or a playground or whatever, they do just about as well with the kind of rifle that we might hunt deer with or any of a number of other weapons that are abundantly available in this Commonwealth.

So what are we about? Or what should we be about in dealing with these weapons? Certainly giving law enforcement an extra tool to say, okay, pal, we caught you with this weapon; obviously, you intend to use it criminally, and you are going to get some extra time on top of whatever we are arresting you for. If we were talking about fully automatic weapons, I would suggest that that would be appropriate. I know that some of those who are opposing this amendment would disagree with me on that score. I would suggest, that is an appropriate place to draw the line.

Regretfully, 1 am going to vote against this amendment because I think it takes in too much territory. Thank you.


WELCOME

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair would like to pause in our deliberations to welcome Dennis DeMara, director of parks and recreation from Mauch Chunk Lake; Joe Seblin, director of the JTPA (Job Training Partnership Act) program; Ed Ronemus; Rick Johnson; Mark Leffler; and Margaret Koruck, all of Mauch Chunk Lake, who were honored today for having the Nation's best Conservation Corps project. They are today the guests of Representative McCall, and they are located in the balcony. Would you please stand.

CONSIDERATION OF HB 176 CONTINUED

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question now recurs, wiO the House agree to the Michlovic amendment? On that question, the Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Centre, Mr. Letterman.

Mr. LETTERMAN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to interrogate the maker of the amendment,

please. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman, Mr.

Michlovic, consents to being interrogated. The gentleman from Centre may proceed.

Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, on page 5, under "Relin- quishment of weapons," you have no provision of what

happens with these weapons once they are relinquished. Is there any reason why you do not have it?

Mr. MICHLOVIC. Mr. Speaker, I would expect that once they are relinquished, they go to the appropriate police department, and I think the police would, in all due haste, either dismantle or somehow get rid of the weapons.

Mr. LETTERMAN. Well, Mr. Speaker, when police departments confiscate drugs, is there any provision in the drug laws to tell them what they should do with the drugs?

Mr. MICHLOVIC. In most cases, if I am correct on this, they keep the drugs for evidence for court, and then afterwards it is destroyed.

Mr. LETTERMAN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 1 would like to make some comments, please. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and

may proceed. Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I have read through this

amendment, and in reading through it, I have found about 15 errors. I do not want t o stand here and point out each and every one of these errors, but 1 think the amendment was drawn up very fast and without much consideration for what it really entails. I do not believe that this amendment is going to do what these people want it to do in the first place. It is never going to stop the man that wants to he illegal from being illegal. He is definitely going out there, and he is going to get these weapons and he is going to use them.

The thing that bothers me most of all is we continually talk about registration of firearms, and I disagree with that 100 percent. 1 think that we have an amendment here that was drawn in haste, that if anything, it should be put back into a committee. The amendment should be corrected, and we should have hearings on an amendment of this sort. I know that because someone goes into a schoolyard and uses one of these guns- And I disagree with the use of these guns. I do not own one. I would not even buy one. 1 have no need for one. But then I try to be legal most of the time, and notice I said, "most of the time." I do not think that whatever you do here is going to stop these people from using this weapon.

MOTION TO TABLE

Mr. LETTERMAN. I therefore would ask that the amendment along with the bill be recommitted- We cannot do that. I think it should be tabled then until the corrections are made in the amendment.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Centre moves that the House now table the bill with the amendment. This particular motion is not debatable except by the leader- ' ship.

Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker? The SPEAKER pro tempore. Mr. Letterman, for what

purpose do you rise? Mr. LETTERMAN. Just for one example t o point out to

you- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The issue is not debatable.

The motion has been placed before the Houre.

1989 LEGISLATIVE

MOTION WITHDRAWN

Mr. LETTERMAN. I withdraw then. The SPEAKER pro tempore, Okay, The gentleman from

Centre withdraws the motion to table. ~h~ question before the H~~~~ is the of the

Michlovic amendment. On that question, the Chair recognizes the gentleman from Centre. Mr. Letterman.

Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, just to give you an example of some of the errors that we found in just reading over this very rapidly. If anyone can explain to me on page 4 what it means under section (a), under "General rule," if anyone can explain to me what that means, I would sure like to have someone do that. I have read it about five times, and I am not very smart, but 1 sure as heck cannot understand this either.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The maker of the amendment, Mr. Michlovic, agrees to be interrogated. The Chair recognizes Mr. Michlovic to answer the gentleman's question.

Mr. MICHLOVIC. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A number of the members have come up to me on that lan-

guage on page 4, under - ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ l rule.9p ~h~~~ should be a "to," 1-0, after the word "prior" and before the number -90." ~l~~ on page 5 , [here was a letter ,,,issing in [he middle of the page where " ... a person who has been issued a permit...," instead of "as been.- ~h~~~ are obvious technical mistakes. We have already talked to the ~~f~~~~~~ B ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ , ~h~~ have indicated that if 1 [he rewritten copy with that language to the amendment clerk after the vote if it should pass, then those corrections will be made, and 1 f u l l y intend to d o so. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair now returns to the gentleman from Centre, Mr. Letterman.

M ~ , L ~ T T E R M A N , Mr. Speaker, may I interrogate the maker of the amendment again, please?

The SPEAKER pro The gentleman consents to be interrogated, and the gentleman from Centre may proceed.

LETTERMAN, On page 4, section (b), sales, transfers,...-No assault weapon possessed pursuant to this section may be sold or transferred on or after 90 days follow.

ing the effective date of this subchapter, to anyone within this Commonwealth other than to a licensed gun dealer, as defined herein.- N ~ ~ , can you explain to me what he is going to do with the guns? If he is allowed to purchase them, what is he going to d o with them?

Mr. MICHLOVIC. Sell them, Mr. Speaker. Mr. LETTERMAN. T o whom? Contras? Mr. MICHLOVIC. H~ has a ~ ~ d ~ ~ ~ l firearms license which

allows h im to sell and we override that Federal provision, but we can limit his involvement by [he cri. teria listed.

Mr. LETTERMAN, I n other words, you are saying he would have to sell them to someone out of the State?

Mr. MICHI.OVIC. Wecannot prohibit him from interstate sales.

Mr. LETTERMAN. What did you just say? You cannot prohibit what?

JOURNAL-HOUSE 1651

Mr. MICHLOVIC. We cannot prohibit him from interstate sales. If a person wishes to sell the weapon to somebody out of State, they could sell it in another State where that weapon may be legal under that State's law. , Mr. LETTERMAN. 1s there any other State where it is ''legal?

Mr. MICHLOVIC. California. Mr. LETTERMAN. That is the only one? Mr. MICHLOVIC. As far as I know, under this law. In

fact, this amendment is based upon the California legislation. Mr. LETTERMAN. Yes, that is scary. Right. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Has the gentleman from

concluded his interrogation? Mr. LETTERMAN. Yes, Mr. Speaker. I would like to

make a statement. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and

may proceed. Mr. LETTERMAN. You know, Mr. Speaker, it appears

that every time we have a little problem with firearms in Penn- sylvania, someone wants to ban this or ban that. I used to think the NRA was not correct when they used to say, well, this is just another type of gun registration. I looked at it in many, many ways, and today 1 am doing the same thing, and I believe today that the NRA is probably more right than they ever were. Really, You are not going to d o a thing to keep the

illegal people, the people who want to be illegal, from using these weapons. ,411 YOU are going to d o is say to some gun dealer that has collected these firearms that you have to take

them in and turn Your guns in, turn them in. There is no provision for you to be paid for these weapons or anything else, if

are a gun collector. I think that is absolutely wrong. I think that if you are

going to insist that I turn something over that I have bought, then you should make some kind of provision for me to be reimbursed. It almost sounds like we are living in one of these historical districts in a community, and I buy a house and they tell me what I am allowed t o d o with it. I would like to tell you what would like tellthem lo do wi th themselves.

But 1 will tell YOU, it is time that we quit trying to ban and register firearms. That is not the answer, and 1 think I pointed Out tO YOU two occasions here. One of them was when you tell me I have to take my firearm to a sheriff's department but

YOU d o not make any provisions for what that sheriff's department has to do. Do you realize who works in those sheriffs' departments? They are people who love guns, just like you and I, and there is nothing there that says- You know, 1 imagine a lot o f dope is missing out o f those places, and I imagine there is going to be a lot of firearms if we do not

have a definite provision for what should happen to them. I think that this amendment not only is wrong in what it

suggests that we do but it is wrong in the way it is drawn, and I would ask for a negative vote.



WELCOME I The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Alle-

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair would like the House to pause in its deliberations to welcome the Unem- ployed Committee of Beaver County, who assist the unem- ployed of that particular area. They are the guests today of the Representatives from Beaver County, and the gentlemen of the committee are located in the balcony. Will they stand, please.


The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question before the House is whether the House will agree to the Michlovic amendment to HB 176. On the question. the Chair now recognizes thegentleman from Allegheny, Mr. Olasz.

Mr. OLASZ. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I submit that in many of the things that we d o in this

House, no matter how wcll intentioned, we get caught up in the hysteria of the moment, and I submit that this amendment is another example of hysteria. Get out in the street and find out what is going on. I am willing to bet you that 80 percent of you people in here d o not know how to manufacture a zip gun, but that criminal element knows how to make a zip gun.

Prohibition did not stop the flow of illegal booze. All that it did was make multimillionaires in this country. If you try to restrict the sale of these guns, you have a market out there, and if you want to come to grips with reality, go out in the street and ask: Do you want to rent a gun for an hour? Do you want t o rent it for a day? What d o you want - a grenade launcher? Do you want a bazooka? Ask your friends in the DEA. Tell them to go down to the swamps in Florida and find out where those Chinook helicopters came from. There is a market, and if the price is right, they will get it for you. But everything we d o is geared t o the law-abiding citizen. We think they are like average Joe Blow and your next-door neighbor.

The cold, hard facts out in the street are, you are dealing with vicious slime, and where there is a will, there is a relative, and I guarantee you that if they want that weapon, they are going to get that weapon. It is just a matter of time until in this country you are going to see the introduction of plastic explosives. How are you going to deal with it? They are out there. If you got the money, they are there, and if this drug war escalates, you are going to see a lot of them.

Come back to my original statement: How many of you know how to make a zip gun? I will guarantee you, 80 to 90 percent of the people in this place d o not know how to make a zip gun, but they are in prisons and they are everywhere. These guns are everywhere, and all you are going to do is disarm the decent, law-abiding citizen.

I urge you to vote "no" on the Michlovic amendment. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gen-

tleman from Bucks, Mr. Clymer. Mr. CLYMER. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder if I can interrogate the maker of the amendment

for one question.

gheny, Mr. Michlovic, consents to being interrogated. The gentleman from Bucks may proceed.

Mr. CLYMER. Thank you. Mr. Speaker, I may have missed it in the conversation, but

could you tell me whether or not any law enforcement agencies, both State or national, have taken a position on the assault weapons issue?

Mr. MICHLOVIC. Yes, Mr. Speaker. The Chiefs o f Police Association, both at the national level and at the State level, is supportive of the amendment.

Mr. CLYMER. That is the end of my interrogation. Just a comment.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and may proceed.

Mr. CLYMER. Mr. Speaker, I share somewhat the comments of Representative Olasz, who had made the comment that you are always going to have people who are going to secure these weapons and use them unlawfully. I just want to add to it by saying that until we can control some violence on the television and from Hollywood, those are the kinds of violent actions that people who are unbalanced, when they see those kinds of things, 'think they have to portray, and they portray themselves in an image of that character who uses an assault weapon and does a lot of harm to our society. I think until there is some control there or some responsibility by pro- ducers, we are still going to have this problem not only in Pennsylvania but in our Nation.

That is the end of my remarks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendments?


Y EAS-61

Adolph Cowell Levdansky Ballisla Donarucci Lint on Belardi Evans McHale Bishop Freeman McNally Blaum Gamble McVerry Bortner Hagarty Maiale Braujos Harper Melio Burns Hayden Miehlavic Caltagirone Hershey Nahill Cappabianca Howlell Oliver Carn Hughes Pelrane Cawley ltkin Pislella Clark, J. H . James Pilrs Cohen Jorephs Preston Colafella Kaiser Reinard Corrigan Kukovich Rieger

ACOSta Allen Angstadl Argall Barley Belfaoti Billow Birmelin Black Bowley Boyes Brandl

Dorr Durham Fairch~ld Fargo Farmer Fee Fleagle Flick Foster Fox Freind Gallen

NAYS-137

Langtry Lashinger Laughlin Lee Leh Leseovitz Letterman Lloyd Lucyk McCall Maine Markosek

Riller Robinson Rocbuek Saurman Thomas Tigue Trello Van Horne Vroan Wambach Williams Wright. J. L.

Manderino, Speaker

Robbins Rudy Ryan Rybak Saloom Scheetr Schuler Semmel Serafini Smilh. B. Smith. S. H. Snyder. D. W

Bunt Burd Bush Carlson Cessar Chadwick Civera Clark, B. D. Clark, D . F. Clvmer Colairza Cole Cornell COY DeLuca DeWeese Daley Davics Dcmpsey Dieuerick Dininni Distler Dombrowski

Murphy Richardson

EXCUSED-2

Scrimenti


T h e question was determined in the negative, and the amendments were not agreed to.

Cannon Marsico Snydcr. G. Ceist Mayernik Staback George Merry Srairs Cladeck Miller Steighner Gadshall Moehlmann Slish Gruitza Morris Slrittmatler C r ~ p p o Mowery Stuhan Haluska Mrkonic Tangretti Haaay Nailor Taylor. E. Z. Haycs Noye Taylor, F. Heckler O'Brien Taylor. J. Herman O'Donnell Telek Hess Olasz Trich Jackson Perzel Veon Jadlowiec Pesci Wars Jarolin Petrarca Weston Johnson Phillips Wilson Kasunic Piccola Wogan Kenney Pieusky Wozniak Kandrich Pressmann Wright. 11. R. Kosinski Raymond Wright. R. C. LaCrotta Reber Yandrisevits

NOT VOTING-3

O n thequestion recurring, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Bill was agreed to.

Bowley Gallen Boyes Gamble B n n d l Ganoon Rroujos Cieisl Bun1 George Hurd Gigliotli Burns Gladcck Rush (iodshall Caltagirone Gruit la Cappabianca Gruppo Carl ion Hagarty Carn Haluska Cawley Harper Cessar Hasay Chadwick Hayden Clvcra Haye< Clark. 6. D . Heckler Clark. D. F. Herman Clark, J. H. Hershcy Clymer Hew Cohen Howlell Colafella llughes C a l a i ~ . ~ . ~ l tk in Cole .lackhon Cornell Jadlowiec

The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been considered on three different days and agreed to and is now on final passage.

The question is, shall the bill pass finally?

LEAVE OF ABSENCE CANCELED

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The clerk will be advised lo add Mr. Scrimenti to the master roll.


On the question recurring, Shall the hill pass finally? The SPEAKER pro tempore. Agreeable to the provisions

o f the Constitution, the yeas and nays will now be taken.

YEAS-201

Aeosta Dombrowski Langtry Ritlcr Adolph Donatuuci Larhinger Robbin, Allen Dorr Laughlin Robinwn Angstadt Durham 1 . e ~ Roebuck Argall Evans Leh Rudy Barley Fairchild Lcscovit, Ryan Ballisto Fargo Letterman Rybak Bclardi Farmcr I.evdansky Saloom Bclfanti Fee Linton Saurrnan Billow Flcaglc Lloyd Scheet, Birmelin f'lick Lucyk Schuler Bishop Faster McCall Scrimenti Black Fox McHale Scmn~el Blaum Freeman McNally Scrafini Borlner Freind McVtr ry Smith. H.

~ ~

Co r r i~a t l Jamcr Cowell .larolin Coy Johnson Del.uca Jorephr DcWeere Kairer

Maialr Mainc hlarkosek Marsica Mayernik Mcl io Mcrry Michlovi~. Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonic Murphy Nahill Nailor Noye O'Brien O'Donncll Olar,. Oliver Per7.cl l'esci Petrarca Pctrone I'hillipr Piccola Pievsky Pistella Pill5

Smith. S. H. Snyder, D. W. Snyder. ti. Staback Stairs Steighncr Stish Strinmatlcr Stuban Tangretti Taylor. E. Z. Taylor, F. Taylor. J Trlek Thomas Tigue Trello Trich Van Horne Veon Vroon Wambach Wass Weslon Williams Wilson Wogan Wo,.nisk Wright, D. R. Wright. J. L .

Daley Kasunic Pressmann Wright, K. C . Davie5 Kenney Preslon Yandrisevils Dcmpsey Kondrich Raymond Dietterick Kosinski Reber Manderino. Dininni Kukovich Reioard Speaker Distlcr LaGrotla Kiegrr

NAYS-0

NOT VOTING-I

Richardson

EXCUSED-I

Micorr ic

The majority required by the Conslitution having voted in the affirmative, the question was delermined in the affirma- tiveand the bill passed finally.

Ordered, That the clerk present the same lo the Senate for concurrence.

DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS

The SPEAKER pro rempore. The Chair wishes lo advise the Democratic members that there will be a caucus immediately following the session in the majority caucus room.

REPUBLICAN CAUCUS

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Perry, Mr. Noye, who also informs the House that the Republicans will be having a caucus following the deliberations o f the House.

ADJOURNMENT

The SPEAKER pro lempore. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Delaware, Mr. Adolph.


Mr. ADOLPH. Mr. Speaker, 1 move that this House d o now adjourn until Tuesday, October 17, 1989, at 1 1 a.m., 1 e.d.t., unless sooner recalled by the Speaker. I

On the question, Will the House agree t o the motion? Motion was agreed to, and at 2:43 p.m., e.d.t., the House

adjourned.

commonwealth of pennsylvania legislative journal · 16.10.1989 · no. 2000 by representatives...

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