entrevista com paul duncum ,_por joao frois

8/3/2019 ENTREVISTA COM Paul Duncum ,_por Joao Frois

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Dialog onVisual Cultureand Education

or the XXI CenturyA vw w

Proessor Paul Duncum

BJoo Pedro Fris(Facul F A

/ Uv Lb)

Gap

cD

g:

A

DLu


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P Paul Ducum Cap A educa Dv,

Uv ill, Ubaa Campag, UsA. h bad PD m t

Fld Uv su Auala 1987 ubjc cld

ulcd dawg m a culual ppcv. Au ma acl

cld dawg ad ppula vual culu ad la a duca,a wll a d 2006 bk Vual Culu A Cla: Ca sud,

a ladg advca vual culu a duca.


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Joo Pedro Fris What distinguishes the essence o the modern age, as Heidegger said,

is that the world is conceived and grasped as a picture. Why is this concept o our world

as visuality so important nowadays?

Paul Ducum i ad a w av ak a vual u a gca a

la u w c k wad d 19 cu. nw

ppl ba b am ad ma ug m a agcal vual ad w a cfc bw pcu ad kd

x wd pacula vual cmmuca m pwul bcau v

dma . Lg ag i ud a ud wuld g lba ac

a pc ad ad akg bk a mg b lva wuld ak

vd. evda l a w bcm vual a muc wa w

kw abu wld bd pal xpc w mdad ug pmal

a la gcal ug vual mda. t m vual capu

bu al ac a apc l a w pvul cdd mamacall

wd a w vuald. Al, m capu appac a w ak muc umdad wld, ad ccp gaz v mpa.

F xampl, cl m a duca U.s. av alkd abu acuaal

gaz, gaz w av w ag k, a gaz clam a dma cal

l llwg spmb 11.t m vual i

k a a upda m, capug all

mag w lk a bu al w w lk a

mdad wld. i a b lk agda

plpcal ac, wc cd a

bu al bd a cd aual wld.

We all know that any denition is provisional and

subject to changes but I would rst like to know how

you dene Visual Culture?

i k vual culu, , v cluv

m bcau qu wdl d dcpl

u m. i w k all mag mlv pbabl a

ma uvllac mag pducd ad vwd a a kd. t a

mdcal ad a umb kd cc mag. Ad umb

ca all m w w clg. t mag a pmal ucal,ccd w cmal ad m, dag ad ma gag.

i m mal pma uc, a daa. smm c

aa mbl, da, valu ad bl, xampl w a uvllac

mag bcm c a cal cv, bu m m ma

ud cc a duca. A duca a d a kd

uc, a dal w da, bl ad valu abu w w a. rugl

pakg d b kd ug aga vlap. t a

wc a b alm l kd a duca a dal w up ul cl,

a la U.s. t ma ppula a wc pducd ml b

lag cpa w pma cc mak m. t ppulaculu a da ppl pduc wc ud b calld lk a bu w

ak a lcc m ad pu u wl lccall ccd wld


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. t kd mag makg cuall ac m bd. i

kd mag a i k w a d a a duca.

t wd culu, wc dal w l mag: hw d uc

w cx? hw d cbu a wa l, wa l, c

w lv accal c, w d mag uc m wa uggl?

Can we use Brent Wilsons metaphor saying that Art Education is like a tree with roots,

a trunk and branches, and Visual Culture is a rhizome in Deleuzes denition?

i d Wl appac v lpul. i duc dc m ud a

fa mdl b wc dgu a md a cuculum m a pmd

cuculum. i wll w m xampl w i am pg Pugal a

Bad Cllc Muum.

A number o art educators including you, Kerry Freedman, Kevin Tavin, Graeme Chalmers

and Arthur Efand think that art education in visual arts should make a transition to

a visual culture studies orientation. Since when has this transition become urgent andwhy do we need it now in schools and art museums?

o agum a K mm u a a cl bg.

s g bcau a gd a b bd. Wa p clu

ad ad l ad ? A l a duca abu m l culu

ad v vwd ug mal ma a d cc w ud

acual xpc wld, a wld wc a adp a vual clg.

A vual clg cag ad ca umb ad fuc, wa

dalg w a v pacula mal appac dvlpd a bgg

la cu dal w md pag a v a wld

lg pla a pa a cmpa cva.

The sociological, political, cultural, economic, sexual, and generational concerns

inherent to the study o the visual culture are long established in literature on Art

Education. [In Europe, in the early seventies Hermann Ehmer e Hein Moller deended

a radical need o approaching Art Education. For them visual communication is the

communication o the dominant class. Their ideas about the arts, aesthetics and social

transormation were based on K. Marx, W. Benjamin, T. Adorno, J. Habermas, R. Barthes

and others. Some o these philosophers ramed the current Visual Culture approach.] Is

Visual Culture a newly coloured old idea as recently remarked by Kevin Tavin?

Wll g l w, a Kv dma pap acd

cu mvm. Bu a gca dc bw m

culual u m ad amwk ppl a wkg m da.

t Fak scl w dmv ma g m a a uul,

mall vulabl mb, vcm cpa b. t pad w

a cla-cu dc bw a m l g vlua

p l ad ppula culu, wc aw a ul dga. t gadd

m ppl a m dup, ad vcm al ccu. i d kw

a duca u m bu egl pakg wld ma a duca

w fucd b kd kg ad aw a a a dc aga l a bakdw all ld b wwl l. A duca wa

vwd a a kd ducaal cdm. W dc bw g ad lw


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culu w ul blud, a b p pduc ad cump, ad a

w pc llgc audc, cdg ppula culu w m

abu ccal awa umu, ambguu, cadc,

lap a w avg uma m l.

Do you think that reconceptualising art education as visual culture education would be

the natural transition o the eld o art education namely in the western countries?

To what extent art education in American schools does take visual culture on board?

n ju w cu. i u g ma pa Aa, a wa aad

U.s. pa clg a dlv mag. Al VCBe mpl

ca appac a a applcabl pcv wa pa wld w a

addg. Ccp lk duc, dlg, gaz, audc ad appl

vw a la i mag wuld.

rgadg cd pa u qu: evg wl cu

dvd agmd. t aal cuculum ad v

lkl. Ad m kwldg ac a b d x wc VCa pad clam. i wa u up a pma ac a

a ad aal cc a ag g b, vual culu a ad v

ll mpac. t a l g clam pjc pd

lau a duca, bu m wa i ca

ll d p m. F ac

ad mdm, v dcul mak

bcau a u x qu mpl,

a d md qud. i pbabl

m dcul U.s. w pp culu

aal culu ad a a pl uppd b gvm. i upc

lap bw a ad pp

culu a cu w a duca

d l d alwa b ddg

a; d i upc d ak a

dv p wa md U.s. a

ac l av alav. A la u m w cu

Auala w a a valud b gvm.

Can we consider Visual Culture-based Art Education as a paradigm similar to Educationthrough Art and Discipline-Based Art Education?

y, i k . i w k a paadgm a l a ppal a gcal

d m wa a cm b plu pac pag ba a

ppal, i k a w a a a paadgm a ccud. Bu pa

clam amg a lmd umb ac. Lkg a lau a

p clam pacc ad lkg a pcal clam qu d.

You wrote that Visual Culture is a more inclusive category than the study o the

institutionalized Art World. Could you please go into more detail about that?

i add abv, a la pa, ud qu 2. o cu ual

a wld wa ud b. i a pd d bg lcd kd


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ad l mpwd. t a gaal dalgu w w la m ac .

o pducv md xam mda p ppl cla.

oc Aca Amca ud fc w a pd ad

appl m ud a pa a a cuc

ad a m.

We know that the shit o rom Art to Visual Culture represent an essential change

in the orientation o art in education. [This intentional shit rom the movement o

Sel-Expression represented by Victor Loweneld or Arno Stern to Discipline-Based

Art Education as advocated by Ralph Smith, Stephen Dobbs or Elliot Eisner or others

rameworks was really a shit o approach and not o subject matter. We know that the

primary goal o one o the proponents o the disciplinary approach in the USA Proessor

Manuel Barkan was to include the visual arts, which meant the talking about art and

aesthetics, in the school curriculum.] What are the goals o Visual Culture-Based Art

Education in public schools today?

DBAe pp w ccd a a a alav waud jd; gal wa pmal av ud appca

a, wc bld dw l-xp ad m. i wuld a a

pma gal VCBA a ccal ccu a a appca.tug

i wuld wa mm dcul

. Ccal alad ccal

pdagg pblmac. i p k a

plaul pdagg.

While the Art Museum is at the centre o the historical

practice o Art, it is not oten at the centre o PopularCulture. We no longer know the museum just by going

to see it. We, as Suzanne Oberhardt pointed out in

her book Frames within Frames (2001), visit it in

our daily lives in many other ways, via magazines,

computer screens, movies or billboards. What is the

role o the art museum in western popular culture?

i a alav. t valu mplc mag m pa a acv

da; v ac cvg m ppal pmal qual

m pp mag. sm ld wk ju g g a g

l lg ag, a b lk bg acad b dau. Bu muc abu lv ad

cmpa ad pcg ad wc ad apa m dc cump.

Ad a muum al a plac w w u a culd uvv a a

cmmcal p d a vc, wa Wllam call p-mak cd.

What are your suggestions concerning the development o a curriculum or visual culture

inside the walls o Art Museums?

i av cdd b, llwg uddvlpd. i m

gal m i wuld pa m aump i mak abv. W gad

pdagg w d d auav vc a xp ad a p-ucual dalgu. sud w l a ug pak md

wll qul av muc a a ac ca la m. s, a mag


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cva d b abu wa ud k a muc a ac, w

ac acg a gud.

In your recent article 9 Reasons or the continuing use o an aesthetic discourse in art

education published in Art Education (2007) you emphasize the need o maintaining

an aesthetic mode o thinking in art education. What kind o renements do we need

when we are using the ambiguous and polysemantic concept o aesthetics in the visual

culture-based art education?

Ac a xcpall dcul wd bcau gal ppal a a

cbu c-plcal damc v al 19 cu, a wll

a cug , a b ld upp cvav, aca,

ad pgv agda. M ag a b g back Gk wd m

wc dvd, wc ma pcp ad wa dd dgu

bw wa culd b pcvd ad wa culd l b magd. i ,

i k u dcb lu. t clud adal cag

bauul ad ublm a Ka ad ma ppd a xcluvcag 18 cu. Bu lu mu al clud wa Ka ad

md w dmd xclud, a , vulga ad vl, a

wll a dullg ad lullg ad vbag. eac av

appal wv uplaa, a ud b mag-mak fuc ug ad

lg. s w d a ccp ac a clud b l acg

ad l dg. B a u ; b a bg ud. W d a vw

ac a cg bd, ju md. Ad cu mplg

p-ucualm w av ackwldg ac a wa i d ugl m

l culd d bauul, ad .

Can you please point out the most important reasons that you evoked in your paper or

the Visual Culture-Based Art Education that educators need to consider in their school

or art museum activities?

i av mm pu a gavl: pcu l. M pvl,

mag a cuv u bl ad valu, u da abu wld ad

ulv. t mdl a ll u wa wld abu, wa uld b

abu ad wa uld b abu. Ad a duca g b all xcg

w w p up dalgu w ud abu dcp, pcp ad

pcp.

Does it make any sense to talk about aesthetic experience in visual culture-based art

education? Or does this concept no longer make any sense?

i k ac ma v mpa bu ccpuald a i d abv. A

alav dp m bcau ma ma d g ad adp

m. i am pl plag w wd duc ad lu.

What kind o practical examples in education or Visual Culture can you give? Is there

anything beyond the examples you discussed in Visual Culture in the Art Class: Case

Studies edited by you or the National Art Education Association in 2006?i ca w m xampl m m cla ad wll d w i p Pugal.

F a al cmpv uv i dd lau egl m l laguag


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ala K-12 clam m all k culd lk a m cap Wa w

a lag abu acg ppula vual culu a bk dd b Jg A Pak

calld A educa a Ccal Culual iqu publd back 2007.

Your early studies in Art Education were ocused on the subject o childrens unsolicited

drawing rom a cultural perspective. Donna Kelly in her book Uncovering the History o

Childrens Drawing and Art (2004) says that the examination o childrens drawing can

be separated into two paradigms: the psychological Mirror and the aesthetic Windows

paradigms. The Mirror paradigm is characteristic o a psychological ocus on childrens

picture-making. The second is an aesthetic perspective ollowed by those working in

the art community Childrens art serves a Window on the world to make a ragment

o that world visible () The aesthetic Window practitioners value the childrens

picture-making or its artistic value. What do you think about that approach to the

childrens drawings?

Ma a duca av cud ac dvlpm w ac dvlpm.

t av cfad m ad appld pacula ac pjudc dvlpm, wc a vd cld wll. Gad a al c xampl

bu ma cam b m. t appld a md ac, clbag

fwg appac ug cld, damg dawg w g up

dug mddl cldd ad clbag

wk adlcc w cld m l-

ccul adpd a l-xpv l. i w

k a a a ma dvlp da, valu

ad bl vual m, mp

a pacula ac mak . Kd w

daw cmc p daw alcall bu wlla vl xplg wd. yu l av

alk kd abu mag makg d

u. Md ju lkd a pcu.

i ca udad cld pcu,

lk all pcu makg, m cx.

Ug dawg a a pclgcal m

quall aug w dag. Aga, appac wa dag cd,

ju mal dvlpm, m dawg al. Aga, u d cd

all kd ac b u ca pcula w a dawg mg dca w

ubccu w lag w a dca kd maldvlpm. All dvlpm dcpl pcc. Cx alwa a mpa,

m , a x. Ad ma wa dc bw a

md vw a l a dalc vw kwldg ad a p-md vw

a udd a cxualc pmlg.

Apl, 2009

entrevista com paul duncum ,_por joao frois

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