fourthrepublicandebate 11-9-15

7/25/2019 FourthRepublicanDebate 11-9-15

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Transcript: Read the Full Text of the Fourth Republican

Debate in Milwaukee

time.com /4107636/transcript-read-the-full-text-of-the-fourth-republican-debate-in-milwaukee/

Charlotte Alter

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Eight candidates for the Republican nomination faced off in Milwaukee Tuesday night for a primetime

debate on Fox Business Network, moderated by hosts Neil Cavuto, Maria Bartiromo, and Gerard Baker,

the editor-in-chief of the Wall Street Journal.

Heres a complete transcript of the event

BARTIROMO:

Tonight were partnering with the Wall Street Journal to ask questions on the economy that voters want

answered. Were also working with Facebook, who tells us that since the first Republican debate, more

than 58 million people have joined the political conversation online.

More than 9 million are talking specifically about the economy.

BAKER:

The candidates on stage tonight were selected based on their standing in an average of four national polls.

Those standings determining their position on the stage. And here they are. At center stage, businessmanDonald Trump.

(APPLAUSE)

BAKER:

Neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson.

(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

Florida Senator Marco Rubio.

(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

Texas Senator Ted Cruz.
http://time.com/4107636/transcript-read-the-full-text-of-the-fourth-republican-debate-in-milwaukee/http://time.com/4107636/transcript-read-the-full-text-of-the-fourth-republican-debate-in-milwaukee/


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(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

Former Florida Governor Jeb Bush.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Businesswoman Carly Fiorina.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Ohio Governor John Kasich.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

And Kentucky Senator Rand Paul.

(APPLAUSE)

BAKER:

Tonights rules are simple. Up to 90 second for each answer. One minute for each follow-up response. And

if a candidate goes over their allotted time, youll here this.

CAVUTO:

It sounds like a game show but its not.

Now I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge the elephant in the room, and Im not talking about your

partys fine symbol. Im talking about the purpose of tonights debate.

The economy and what each of you would do to improve it. No more, no less. We are focused on thoseissues, and what you have said on those issues in your words and what your opponents have said in their

words about your words. That is the agenda tonight. How each of you plans to make America better

tomorrow.

And so we begin. Candidates, as we gather tonight in this very august theater, just outside and across the

country, picketers are gathering as well. Theyre demanding an immediate hike in the minimum wage to

$15 an hour. Just a few hours ago, near Governor Andrew Cuomo proposed doing the same for all state

workers, the first governor to do so.

Mr. Trump, as the leading presidential candidate on this stage and one whose tax plan exempts couples


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making up to $50,000 a year from paying any federal income taxes at all, are you sympathetic to the

protesters cause since a $15 wage works out to about $31,000 a year?

TRUMP:

I cant be Neil. And the and the reason I cant be is that we are a country that is being beaten on every

front economically, militarily. There is nothing that we do now to win. We dont win anymore. Our taxes are

too high. Ive come up with a tax plan that many, many people like very much. Its going to be a

tremendous plan. I think itll make our country and our economy very dynamic.

But, taxes too high, wages too high, were not going to be able to compete against the world. I hate to say

it, but we have to leave it the way it is. People have to go out, they have to work really hard and have to get

into that upper stratum. But we can not do this if we are going to compete with the rest of the world. We

just cant do it.

CAVUTO:

So do not raise the minimum wage?

TRUMP:

I would not do it.

(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

Dr. Carson, you have long bemoaned this lackluster recovery. And this Facebook map show Americans

share your concern. The green represents how the jobs issue is resonating all across the nation, especially

here in the state of Wisconsin.

You suggested one minimum wage does not fit all, and that perhaps we should offer a lower or starter

wage for young people. Those protesters outside are looking for $15 and nothing less. Where are you?

CARSON:

Well, first of all, delighted to be here. My familys here, and my little granddaughter, whos three years old,

said she wanted to come to the debate. So this is very cool.

As far as the minimum wage is concerned, people need to be educated on the minimum wage. Every timewe raise the minimum wage, the number of jobless people increases.

Its particularly a problem in the black community. Only 19.8 percent of black teenagers have a job, who

are looking for one. You know, that and thats because of those high wages. If you lower those wages,

that comes down.

You know, I can remember, as a youngster you know, my first job working in a laboratory as a lab

assistant, and multiple other jobs. But I would not have gotten those jobs if someone had to pay me a large

amount of money.

But what I did gain from those jobs is a tremendous amount of experience, and how to operate in the world


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and how to relate to different people, and how to become a responsible individual. And thats what gave me

what I needed to ascend the ladder of opportunity in this country.

Thats what we need to be thinking about. How do we allow people to ascend the ladder of opportunity,

rather than how do we give them everything and keep them dependent?

(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

So, sir, just to be clear, you would not raise it?

CARSON:

I would not raise it. I would not raise it, specifically because Im interested in making sure that people are

able to enter the job market and take advantage of opportunities.

(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

Senator Rubio, you called the recent Democratic debate in Las Vegas a night of giveaways, including free

health care, free college and a host of other government-paid benefits. Since you arent a fan of all theyre

giving away, tell us tonight what you would take back.

RUBIO:

Well, let me begin by answering both the first question and this one, because theyre related.

As Ive said many times before, my parents were never rich people. My father was a bartender. My mother

was a maid. They worked for a living. But they were successful people, because, despite the fact that they

werent well educated and had those jobs, they made enough money to buy a home in a safe and stable

neighborhood, retire with dignity, leave all four of their children better off than themselves.

RUBIO:

We call that the American dream, but in fact, its a universal dream of a better life that people have all over

the world. It is a reminder that every country in the world has rich people.

What makes America special is that we have millions and millions of people that are not rich, that throughhard work and perseverance are able to be successful.

The problem is that today people are not successful working as hard as ever because the economy is not

providing jobs that pay enough. If I thought that raising the minimum wage was the best way to help people

increase their pay, I would be all for it, but it isnt. In the 20th century, its a disaster.

If you raise the minimum wage, youre going to make people more expensive than a machine. And that

means all this automation thats replacing jobs and people right now is only going to be accelerated.

Heres the best way to raise wages. Make America the best place in the world to start a business or

expand an existing business, tax reform and regulatory reform, bring our debt under control, fully utilize


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our energy resources so we can reinvigorate manufacturing, repeal and replace Obamacare, and make

higher education faster and easier to access, especially vocational training. For the life of me, I dont know

why we have stigmatized vocational education. Welders make more money than philosophers. We need

more welders and less philosophers.

(APPLAUSE)

If we do that and if we do this if we do this, we will be able to increase wages for millions of

Americans and we will be able to leave everyone better off without making anyone worse off.

CAVUTO:

Thank you, Senator Rubio.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Weve asked people on Facebook to submit their questions for the candidates. Seth Bell wrote, We areapproaching $20 trillion in national debt. Specifically, what plans do you have to cut federal spending?

Governor Kasich, you have spoken much about your success in balancing the budget under President

Clinton. Today the national debt is at record highs and growing unsustainably. Interest will be the fastest-

growing part of the federal budget, tripling over the next 10 years. Social Security, the lifeline of millions of

American seniors, is rushing toward insolvency. With all of the tax plans presented tonight, estimated to

cost anywhere between $2 trillion and $12 trillion over a decade, what specific steps will you take to

balance the budget?

KASICH:

First of all, let me just say that, in the state of Ohio and Im the only acting executive on on this stage

today we do have a moderate increase in the minimum wage. And I got to tell you, my father carried

mail on his back. His father was a coal miner. He died of black lung. He was losing his eyesight. My

mothers mother lived with us. She could barely speak English. I come from a town where if the wind blew

the wrong way, people found themselves out of work. An economic theory is fine, but you know what?

People need help.

Now, I have a plan that, in fact, would cut taxes, but not $11 trillion or $12 trillion that would put my children

further in debt. I have a plan that would not only cut taxes, lower the income tax rate for individuals, lower

the tax for businesses so businesses will compete here and not move operations overseas, and also a

plan the only plan of anybody standing on this stage to get us to a balanced budget by the end of asecond term.

And, you know, the simple fact of the matter is, we hear a lot of promises in this debate, a lot of promises

about these tax cuts or tax schemes sometimes that I call them. Hillary and the Democrats promise

everything on the spending side. Weve got to be responsible about what we propose on the tax side.

Yes, lower taxes, lower spending. My website, JohnKasich.com, will show you exactly how we balance the

budget. I balanced the budget in Washington as a chief architect, and I have balanced it in Ohio for one

reason. When you balance the budget and you cut taxes, people get work.


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And our most important moral purpose as leaders in the political system is to make sure we create an

environment for job creation so people can live their dreams and realize their God-given potential. Thats

why its so important.

And for those at the bottom, weve got to do what we can to train them so they can move up. But to just

look the other way is not acceptable, because, you know what, as the governor of Ohio I have to deal with

real challenges, and weve gotten it done in our state, and I will do it for America.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Did you want to name any specific steps, sir?

KASICH:

Sure. We would move the Medicare system from a 7 percent growth down to about a 5 percent growth.

And I have a whole series of ways to do that. In Ohio, we reduced Medicaid funding for the poor from 10

percent to 2.5 percent, didnt cut one benefit or didnt take anybody off the rolls. Why? Because wereinnovators. Ive been an innovator my entire career.

And I really dont care what special interests or lobbyists have to say. I have a job to do when I take over a

public office. Now, we freeze non-defense discretionary for eight years. We also put an increase in

defense spending. Our tax cuts balance out. And at the end of the day, we will get to a balanced budget.

And I want everybody here to know, when I was Budget Committee chairman in Washington, I stepped on

every toe in that town, and we got to a balanced budget, and we had enormous job growth. And as

governor of Ohio, we went from 350,000 lost jobs to a gain of 347,000 jobs.

BARTIROMO:

Thank you, sir.

KASICH:

Ill do it in Washington. Ive done it twice; Ill do it thrice for the United States of America.

BARTIROMO:

Senator Cruz, the International Monetary Fund recently cut its expectations for economic growth. Many

economists expect a recession to hit the U.S. within the next year due to the weakening of manufacturing.

The next president will have to deal with it. You say tax reform is a powerful lever to spur economic

expansion. Youre calling for a 10 percent income tax and a 16 percent business tax. What other elements

do you need in this plan to actually create jobs?

CRUZ:

Well, Maria, its great to be with you. Its great to be here in Milwaukee. You know, the question you asked


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really I think is the most important question any of us can have face, which is, how do we get the

economy growing? How do we bring back economic growth?

Because economic growth, its foundational to every other challenge we have. As you rightly noted, from

2008 to today, our economy has grown 1.2 percent a year on average. The Obama economy is a disaster,

and the IMF is telling us this is a new normal. It doesnt have to be.

If you look at the history of America, there are three levers that government has had to facilitate economic

growth. The first is tax reform. And as you noted, I have rolled out a bold and simple flat tax: 10 percent for

every American that would produce booming growth and 4.9 million new jobs within a decade.

The second element is regulatory reform, pulling back the armies of regulators that have descended like

locusts on small businesses.

And the third element is sound money. Every time weve pursued all three of those whether in the

1920s with Calvin Coolidge or the 1960s with JFK or the 1980s with Ronald Reagan the result has

been incredible economic growth. We have done it before, and with leadership, we can do it again.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Thank you, sir.

KASICH:

Excuse me.

BARTIROMO:

Governor Bush

KASICH:

Yeah, I would like to make a comment.

BUSH:

Youve already made two comments, John. Its my turn.

BARTIROMO:

We have more questions for you, Governor Kasich, coming up. We have more questions for you,

Governor Kasich.

BUSH:

I got about four minutes in the last debate. Im going to get my question right now.


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KASICH:

I appreciate it, Jeb. Im all of you. But I want at some point to talk about a value-added tax and $11 trillion,

$12 trillion tax cuts that will put our kids way deeper in the hole than they have been at this point. So I

would like to talk about it at some point, because thats what leadership is.

BARTIROMO:

We will we will certainly get to that. Governor Bush?

BUSH:

Yes.

BARTIROMO:

Almost 40 percent of Americans are without a job and are not looking. Many have given up. Thats what theparticipation rate tells us. Youve said your policies will drive the economy back to 4 percent growth, which

we havent seen since the year 2000. What specific regulations would you change? And how will that lead

to jobs and growth?

BUSH:

First of all, we could get to 4 percent growth. The new normal of 2 percent puts huge demands on

government. The reason why we have structural deficits is that more and more people are relying on

government and the growth that we dont have makes makes the deficit grow.

A 4 percent growth strategy starts with tax reform. And the proposal that Ive laid out is the one the Wall

Street Journal editorial board has said is the most pro-growth of all the proposals out there. We cut the

we eliminate a lot of deductions and cut the rates down. A corporate rate of 20 percent, which puts us 5

percent above below that of China, and allows us full expensing of investing. It would create an

explosion of investment back into this country, creating higher-wage jobs, and so thats part of it.

On the regulatory side I think we need to repeal every rule that Barack Obama has in terms of work in

progress, every one of them.

(APPLAUSE)

And start over. For those that are already in existence, the regulation of the Internet, we have to start over,but we ought to do that.

The clean power act, we ought to repeal that and and start over on that. The waters of the United States

act, which is going to be devastating for agriculture and many industries, we should repeal that. We should

repeal the rules because the economic costs of this far exceed the social benefit.

BUSH:

And if were serious about being serious about high growth, then we have to recognize that small

businesses right now, more of them are closing than than are than are being set up.


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Hillary Clinton has said that Barack Obamas policies get an A. Really? One in 10 people right now arent

working or have given up altogether, as you said. Thats not an A. One in seven people are living in

poverty. Thats not an A. One in five children are on food stamps. That is not an A. It may be the best that

Hillary Clinton can do, but its not the best America can do.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Thank you, sir.

BAKER:

Ms. Fiorina, while youve all pointed out how weak the current recovery has been and how disappointing by

any historical standards, in the general election, the Democrats will inevitably ask you and voters to

compare the recent presidents jobs performance.

Now, in seven years under President Obama, the U.S. has added an average of 107,000 jobs a month.

Under President Clinton, the economy added about 240,000 jobs a month. Under George W. Bush, it wasonly 13,000 a month. If you win the nomination, youll probably be facing a Democrat named Clinton. How

are you going to respond to the claim that Democratic presidents are better at creating jobs than

Republicans?

FIORINA:

Well, first of all, I must say as I think about that question, I think about a woman I met the other day. I

would guess she was 40 years old. She had several children. And she said to me, you know, Carly, I go to

bed every night afraid for my childrens future. And that really struck me. This is America. A mother is going

to bed afraid for her childrens future.

And the reason shes afraid for her childrens future is because weve had problems for a long time. Yes,

problems have gotten much worse under Democrats. But the truth is, this government has been growing

bigger and bigger, more corrupt, less effective, crushing the engine of economic growth for a very long

time. This isnt about just replacing a Democrat with a Republican now. Its about actually challenging the

status quo of big government.

Big government has created a big business called politics. And there are lots of people invested in the

status quo of that big business called politics.

Specifically, we need actually to do five things to really get this economy going again. We need to go tozero-based budgeting so we know where every dollar is being spent, we can challenge any dollar, cut any

dollar, move any dollar.

(APPLAUSE)

We need to actually reform the tax code. Go to a three-page tax code. Yes, there are plans that would

reform our tax code to three pages. In addition to rolling back what President Obama has done, we need to

do a top-to-bottom review of every single regulation on the books. That hasnt been done in 50 years. We

need to pass the REINS Act so Congress is in charge of regulation, not nameless, faceless bureaucrats

accountable to no one. Weve become a nation of rules, not a nation of laws.


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And finally we actually, yes, have to hold government officials accountable for their performance. All this

has to be done, and the citizens of this nation must help a President Fiorina get it done. We must take our

government back.

(APPLAUSE)

BAKER:

Thank you. Thank you. Senator Paul, income inequality has been rising in the United States. Fifty yearsago, for example, the average CEO of a big corporation in this country earned 20 times the average salary

of one of his or her workers. Today, that CEO earns about 300 times the average salary of a worker. Does

it matter at all that the gap between the rich and everyone else is widening?

PAUL:

Absolutely. And I think that we ought to look where income inequality seems to be the worst. It seems to be

worst in cities run by Democrats, governors of

(APPLAUSE)

States run by Democrats and countries currently run by Democrats. So the thing is, lets look for root

causes.

But I would also say lay some blame at the the feet of the Federal Reserve. I think the Federal

Reserve has made this problem worse. By artificially keeping interest rates below the market rate, average

ordinary citizens have a tough time earning interest, have a tough time making money. Theyre actually

talking now about negative interest.

The money as its created through quantitative easing or other means tends to start out in the big banks in

New York. And because were now paying interest for them to keep the money there, much of that moneyhas not filtered out into the economy. So what were finding is there is increasing income disparity and

income inequality.

We also find that as the Federal Reserve destroys the value of the currency, what youre finding is that, if

youre poor, if you make $20,000 a year and you have three or four kids, and youre trying to get by, as

your prices rise or as the value of the dollar shrinks, these are the people that are hurt the worst.

So really we need to reexamine whether we not we want a Federal Reserve thats involved so much in

determining interest rates. We also need to look at root causes as to what caused the housing boom and

the housing collapse.

But the bottom line is, if you want less income inequality, move to a city with a Republican mayor or a

state with a Republican governor.

(APPLAUSE)

BAKER:

Thank you, Senator.


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CAVUTO:

All right. Were only just getting started. Coming up, your taxes. Stick around. Youre watching FOX

Business

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:

Welcome back to the Milwaukee Theater and the Republican presidential debate. Lets get right back to

our questions.

Dr. Carson, to you. You recently railed against the double- standard in the media, sir, that seems obsessed

with inconsistencies and potential exaggerations in your life story, but looked the other way when it came

to then-Senator Barack Obamas. Still, as a candidate whose brand has always been trust, are you

worried your campaign which youve always said, sir, is bigger than you is now being hurt by you?

CARSON:

Well, first of all, thank you not asking me what I said in the 10th grade. I appreciate that.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

Ill just forget that follow-up there.

(LAUGHTER)

CARSON:

The fact of the matter is, you know, what we should vet all candidates.

CARSON:

I have no problem with being vetted. What I do have a problem with is being lied about and then putting

that out there as truth.

(APPLAUSE)

And I dont even mind that so much, if they do it about with everybody, like people on the other side.

But, you know, when I look at somebody like Hillary Clinton, who sits there and tells her daughter and a

government official that no, this was a terrorist attack, and then tells everybody else that it was a video.

Where I came from, they call that a lie. And

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

I think thats very different from, you know, somebody misinterpreting, when I said that I was offered a

scholarship to West Point, that is the words that they used. But, Ive had many people come and say the


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same thing to me.

That is what people do in those situations. We have to start treating people the same, and finding out what

people really think and what theyre made of. People who know me know that Im an honest person.

(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

Thank you, Dr. Carson.

BARTIROMO:

Mr. Trump, a federal appeals court just dealt a blow to the Obama administrations plan to prevent the

deportation of 5 million people living in this country illegally. The White House is appealing to the Supreme

Court.

At the heart of this issue is the effect that illegal immigrants are having on our economy, what will you do

about it?

TRUMP:

I was so happy yesterday when I saw that decision come down. That was an unbelievable decision.

(APPLAUSE)

And we dont have enough of those decisions coming down. He of the executive order, because nobody

wants to listen to him, including the Democrats, so he just goes around signing executive orders.

That was a great day. And, frankly, we have to stop illegal immigration. Its hurting us economically. Itshurting us from every standpoint. Its causing tremendous difficulty with respect to drugs and what that

does to many of our inner cities in particular.

And it really is was such an unbelievable moment because the courts have not been ruling in our favor.

And it was a 2-1 decision. And it was a terrific thing that happened.

And I will tell you, we are a country of laws. We need borders. We will have a wall. The wall will be built.

The wall will be successful. And if you think walls dont work, all you have to do is ask Israel. The wall

works, believe me. Properly done. Believe me.


BARTIROMO:

Can we just send 5 million people back with no effect on economy?

TRUMP:

You are going to have to bring people you are going to have to send people out. Look, were a

country


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BARTIROMO:

So what will you do?

TRUMP:

Maria, were a country of laws. We either have a country or we dont have a country. We are a country of

laws. Going to have to go out and they will come back but they are going to have to go out and hopefullythey get back.

But we have no choice if were going to run our country properly and if were going to be a country.


BARTIROMO:

Thank you, sir.

KASICH:

Maria, can we comment on that?

BAKER:

Senator Rubio

KASICH:

Can we comment on that?

BAKER:

Yes, one quick comment, yes.

KASICH:

Well, look, in 1986 Ronald Reagan basically said the people who were here, if they were law-abiding,could stay. But, what didnt happen is we didnt build the walls effectively and we didnt control the border.

We need to. We need to control our border just like people have to control who goes in and out of their

house.

But if people think that we are going to ship 11 million people who are law-abiding, who are in this country,

and somehow pick them up at their house and ship them out of Mexico to Mexico, think about the

families. Think about the children.

So, you know what the answer really is? If they have been law- abiding, they pay a penalty. They get to

stay. We protect the wall. Anybody else comes over, they go back.


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But for the 11 million people, come on, folks. We all know you cant pick them up and ship them across,

back across the border. Its a silly argument. It is not an adult argument. It makes no sense.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP:

All I can say is, youre lucky in Ohio that you struck oil. That is for one thing.

(LAUGHTER)

Let me just tell you that Dwight Eisenhower, good president, great president, people liked him. I like Ike,

right? The expression. I like Ike. Moved a 1.5 million illegal immigrants out of this country, moved them

just beyond the border. They came back.

TRUMP:

Moved them again beyond the border, they came back. Didnt like it. Moved them way south. They never

came back.

(LAUGHTER)

Dwight Eisenhower. You dont get nicer. You dont get friendlier. They moved a 1.5 million out. We have no

choice. We have no choice.

(CROSSTALK)

BAKER:

Governor Bush

KASICH:

Jerry, Gerald, it was an attack.

(CROSSTALK)

(UNKNOWN)

If youre not going to have my back, Im going to have my back.

(UNKNOWN)

A couple things here. First of all

BAKER:

Governor Governor, you


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BAKER:

You should let Jeb speak.

(UNKNOWN)

We have grown we have grown

TRUMP:

No, its unfair.

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH:

In the state of Ohio, the state of Ohio, we have grown 347,000 jobs. Our unemployment is half of what it

was. Our fracking industry, energy industry may have contributed 20,000, but if Mr. Trump understood that

the real jobs come in the downstream, not in the upstream, but in the downstream. And thats where were

going to get our jobs.

But Ohio is diversified. And little false little things, sir, they dont really work when it comes to the truth. So

the fact is, all Im suggesting, we cant ship 11 million people out of this country. Children would be terrified,

and it will not work.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP:

built an unbelievable company worth billions and billions of dollars. I dont have to hear from this man,

believe me. I dont have to hear from him.

BAKER:

Mr. Trump, Mr. Trump, you yourself you yourself said let Governor Bush speak. Governor Bush?

BUSH:

Thank you, Donald, for allowing me to speak at the debate. Thats really nice of you. Really appreciate that.

(APPLAUSE)

What a generous man you are. Twelve million illegal immigrants, to send them back, 500,000 a month, is

just not not possible. And its not embracing American values. And it would tear communities apart. And

it would send a signal that were not the kind of country that I know America is.

And even having this conversation sends a powerful signal theyre doing high-fives in the Clinton

campaign right now when they hear this. Thats the problem with this. We have to win the presidency. And

the way you win the presidency is to have practical plans. Lay them out there. What we need to do is allow


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people to earn legal status where they pay a fine, where they work, where they dont commit crimes, where

they learn English, and over an extended period of time, they earn legal status. Thats the path a proper

path

(APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

BAKER:

Senator Rubio? Senator

TRUMP:

We have millions of people right now on line trying to come into this country. Very, very unfair to the people

that want to come into our country legally. Theyve gone through the process. Theyre on line. Theyre

waiting. Very, very unfair to them. That I can tell you.

(APPLAUSE)

BAKER:

Senator Rubio, Senator Rubio, let me let me take you to a question that I think gets to the root of a lot of

the anxiety that people have in this country. The economy is undergoing a transformation through

information technology. Americans are anxious that the new economy isnt producing higher-paying jobs.

Many are concerned that the new wealth seems to be going mainly to innovators and investors.

Meanwhile, with factories run by robots and shopping done increasingly on smartphones, many traditional

jobs are just going away. How do you reassure American workers that their jobs are not being steadily

replaced by machines?

RUBIO:

Well, you know, thats an excellent question, because what we are going through in this country is not

simply an economic downturn. We are living through a massive economic transformation. I mean, this

economy is nothing like what it was like five years ago, not to mention 15 or 20 years ago.

And it isnt just a different economy. Its changing faster than ever. You know, it took the telephone 75

years to reach 100 million users. It took Candy Crush one year to reach some 100 million users.

(LAUGHTER)

So the world is changing faster than ever, and it is disruptive. Number one, we are in a global competition

now, and several of the candidates have said that. There are now dozens of developed economies on this

planet that we have to compete with. And we lose that competition because we have the highest business

tax rate in the industrialized world, because we have regulations that continue to grow by the billions every

single week, because we have a crazy health care law that discourages companies from hiring people, but

because were not fully utilizing our energy resources, that if we did, it would bring back all kinds of growth,

especially in manufacturing, and because we have an outdated higher education system.


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Our higher education system is completely outdated. It is too expensive, too hard to access, and it doesnt

teach 21st century skills. If we do what needs to be done tax reform, regulatory reform, fully utilize our

energy resources, repeal and replace Obamacare, and modernize higher education, then we can grasp

the potential and the promise of this new economy. And we wont just save the American dream. We will

expand it to reach more people and change more lives than ever before. And then truly this new century

can be a new American century.

(APPLAUSE)

BAKER:

Thank you. Senator Cruz Senator Cruz, entitlements. Youve argued for raising the retirement age and

reducing benefits for future retirees, but reducing any sort of benefits for the elderly has always been

notoriously hard to do politically. When Speaker Paul Ryan proposed replacing traditional Medicare with

federally funded private plans a few years ago, a liberal group

(AUDIO GAP)

BAKER:

reducing benefits for future retirees, but reducing any sort of benefits for the elderly has always been

notoriously hard to do politically. When Speaker Paul Ryan proposed replacing traditional Medicare with

federally funded private plans a few years ago, a liberal group responded with a commercial that featured

a granny being pushed off a cliff.

Whats going to be different this time?

CRUZ:

Well, my Mom is here, so I dont think we should be pushing any grannies off cliffs.

(LAUGHTER)

And, you miss-stated what Ive said on entitlement reform. What Ive said is for seniors we should make no

changes whatsoever, for younger workers we should gradually raise the retirement age, we should have

benefits grow more slowly, and we should allow them to keep a portion of their taxes in a personal account

that they control, and can pass on to their kids

(APPLAUSE)

BAKER:

I said for future retirees was your statement

(APPLAUSE)

CRUZ:

I want to go back to the discussion we had a minute ago because, you know, what was said was right. The


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democrats are laughing because if republicans join democrats as the party of amnesty, we will lose.

(APPLAUSE)

And, you know, I understand that when the mainstream media covers immigration, it doesnt often see it as

an economic issue. But, I can tell you for millions of Americans at home watching this, it is a very

personal economic issue. And, I will say the politics of it will be very, very different if a bunch of lawyers or

bankers were crossing the Rio Grande.

(AUDIENCE REACTION)

Or if a bunch of people with journalism degrees were coming over and driving down the wages in the

press.

(AUDIENCE REACTION)

(APPLAUSE) (CHEERING)

Then, we would see stories about the economic calamity that is befalling our nation. And, I will say for

those of us who believe people ought to come to this country legally, and we should enforce the law, were

tired of being told its anti-immigrant. Its offensive.

(APPLAUSE)

I am the son of an immigrant who came legally from Cuba

(BELL RINGING)

to seek the American dream. And, we can embrace legal immigration while believing in the rule of law

and I would note, try going illegally to another country. Try going to China, or Japan. Try going to Mexico.

See what they do. Every sovereign nation secures its borders, and it is not compassionate to say were not

going to enforce the laws

(BELL RINGING)

And were going to drive down the wages for millions of hardworking men and women. That is

abandoning the working

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

We go back to Facebook. Dewayne Wesley Cato asks on Facebook, how do we get rid of regulations

choking our businesses? Ms. Fiorina?

Specifically, under the presidents Affordable Care Act, employers with 50 or more employees are required

to offer health insurance, or be fined. Many are opting to pay the fine. Others are cutting back employee

hours to duck the law altogether. What specific ways will you alleviate the pressure on small business?

FIORINA:

Well, first Obamacare has to be repealed because its failing


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(APPLAUSE)

its failing the very people it was intended to help, but, also, it is croney-capitalism at its worst. Who

helped write this bill? Drug companies, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, every single one

of those kinds of companies are bulking up to deal with big government. See, thats what happens. As

government gets bigger, and bigger and it has been for 50 years under republicans and democrats alike

and business have to bulk up to deal with big government.

So, we have to repeal it. Its tens of thousands of pages long, no one can possible understand it except the

big companies, the lawyers, the accountants, the lobbyists that they hire to protect their interests. Then, we

have to give back to states the responsibility to manage a high risk pool. We need to try the one thing in

health insurance weve never tried. Health insurance has always been a cozy, little game between

regulators and health insurance companies.

We need to try the free market. The free market. Where people actually have to compete.

(APPLAUSE)

And, we ought to have the government ensure that you must and I dont use that term often, that

government ought to do something, but every healthcare provider ought to publish its costs, its prices, its

outcomes, because as patients we dont know what were buying.

(APPLAUSE)

Now, let me just say let me just say, I know more about innovation and entrepreneurship than anyone

on this panel because I have led innovative businesses in the most highly competitive industry in the world

for decades. The truth is the secret sauce of America is innovation, and entrepreneurship, it is why we

must cut our government down to size, and hold it accountable. Its why we have to take our government

back, because innovation and entrepreneurship is crushed by the crushing load of a 73,000 page tax

code. It is crushed

(BELL RINGING)

by regulatory thicket that is so vast we dont even know whats in it anymore. It is crushed as well by

government bureaucrats who dont do their jobs very well, and who are not held accountable, which is why

Ive said we got to take our government back, and to do that, we have to know where every dollar being

spent, and be able to move any dollar. We have to hack through this regulatory thicket, repeal so much,

but, also, know whats in that regulatory thicket we dont even know what regulations have been passed.

Third, we need to build a meritocracy Scott Walker, by the way, is trying now to do in Wisconsin

(BELL RINGING)

Finally, we need to get to a three page tax code, and, yes, that plan exists.

BARTIROMO:

Just to be clear, you want to repeal Obamacare

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:


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but, whats the alternative?

FIORINA:

Sorry, I cant hear you.

BARTIROMO:

Just to be clear, you say you would repeal Obamacare

FIORINA:

Absolutely

BARTIROMO:

But, what is the alternative

FIORINA:

You need to give

BARTIROMO:

and how does that help small business

FIORINA:

The alternative is to allow states to manage high risk pools for those who really need help. Look, Im a

cancer survivor, OK? I understand that you cannot have someone whos battled cancer just become

known as a pre-existing condition. I understand that you cannot allow families to go bankrupt if they truly

need help. But, I also understand that Obamacare isnt helping anyone.

Were throwing more, and more people into Medicaid, and fewer, and fewer doctors are taking those

payments.

FIORINA:

The point is Obamacare is crushing small businesses, it is not helping the families it was intended to help.

So, let us allow states to manage high risk pools. Let us try the one thing in health insurance weve never

tried, the free market. Let us ensure that as patients, and customers

BARTIROMO:

Thank you


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FIORINA:

that we have information to shop wisely for our health care.

CAVUTO:

Alright, thank you. Were going to take a break here. Coming up, a big issue many Americans are facing,

taxes. The Republican Presidential Debate continues now, live, from Milwaukee.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAVUTO:

Welcome back to the Republican presidential debate live from Milwaukee. Lets get back to the questions.

And we want to touch on obviously one of the biggest of this issue in this year, taxes. And this will go to

several of you.

One of the biggest economic concerns of course in the country are taxes. Facebook data certainly backs

that up. Once again the green on this map that were going to see here shows how the conversation

around taxes is resonating across the nation, especially here in Wisconsin.

First off, Dr. Carson, to you. You say you are in favor of a tax system, I guess akin to tithing, sir, with a flat

tax rate of up to 15 percent because you said, if everybody pays this, I think God is a pretty fair guy, so

tithing is a pretty fair process.

But Donald Trump says that is not fair. That wealthier taxpayers should pay a higher rate because its a fair

thing to do. So whose plan would God endorse then, Doctor?

(LAUGHTER)

Yours or Mr. Trumps?

CARSON:

Well, you know, when I say tithing, Im talking about the concept of proportionality.

CAVUTO:

Right.

CARSON:

Everybody should pay the same proportion of what they make. You make $10 billion, you pay a billion. You

make $10, you pay one. You get same rights and privileges.

I dont see how anything gets a whole lot fairer than that. But you also have to get rid of all the deductions

and all the loopholes because that is the thing that tilts it in one direction or another. And you have to set

the rate at an appropriate level.


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Now I will say that, there are a lot of people who say, if you get rid of the deductions, you ruin the American

dream because, you know, home mortgage deduction. But the fact of the matter is, people had homes

before 1913 when we introduced the federal income tax, and later after that started deductions.

And they say there will be no more charitable giving. We had churches before that and charitable

organizations before that. The fact of the matter is, I believe if you put more money in peoples pockets that

they will actually be more generous rather than less generous. And its

(APPLAUSE)

the money that they earned.

And, the other thing is, I do care about the poor people. And in the system that were putting together,

there will be a rebate for people at the poverty level. But I also want to emphasize the fact that as we get

the economy moving, and I hope I get a question about how do we get the economy moving, there will be

a lot more opportunities for poor people not to be poor people because this is America.

This is the land of dreams. And our policies should be aimed at allowing people to realize that dream.

(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

Thank you very much.

Senator Paul, you said you want to blow up the tax code and start over with an across-the-board 14.5

percent fair and flat tax. You happily offered that it is not revenue neutral and thats the idea. You want to

choke off the amount of money coming into Washington.

But dont you risk, sir, creating a near-term budget crisis just as your presidency would be beginning?

PAUL:

Well, its a great question, Neil, and thanks for including me in the tax debate.

I think whats important about the tax debate is, is that we have to ask the question, where is money best

spent, in the private sector or in the government sector? I want a government really, really small, so small

you can barely see it. So I want lower taxes and much more money in the private sector.


My tax plan, however, is the only tax plan among any of the candidates on the stage that is part of abalanced budget plan. I put forward three plans that actually balance the budget over a five-year period.

Each of these plans have details on exactly where we would cut. The question came up earlier, where

would you cut? Nobody likes to say where they would cut. Ive put pencil to paper and done three budgets

that actually balance.

Im also in favor of a plan called the penny plan where wed just cut 1 percent across the board and the

budget actually balances in less than five years. So I think what is extraordinary about my tax plan is it is in

the context of balancing the budget.

PAUL:


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What is also extraordinary about my tax plan is it gets rid of the payroll tax. Democrats demagogue this

issue to death, and when they do they say, oh, a millionaire would get a bigger tax cut than someone

making $10,000.

Thats proportionality, as Ben is trying to explain to folks. But the thing is, is if we get rid of the payroll tax,

everybody is going to get a tax cut. And this is something that I think the public at large will support and

could win an election.

(APPLAUSE)

CAVUTO:

There are no deductions on your under your plan?

PAUL:

Ours is 14.5 percent for corporations, 14.5 percent for individuals. No payroll tax for the employee. The

business tax pays for social security, and there would be two remaining deductions home mortgage and

charity.

CAVUTO:

Thank you, Senator.

PAUL:

Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Senator Cruz, there isnt anyone in this audience or watching at home tonight who would not like to pay

less in taxes. Most people just want a fair shake, and they dont want their money to be wasted.

But explain how your plan works. How can you cut taxes as much as you propose without running up debt

and deficits?

CRUZ:

Well, sure, you put your finger on what the problem is. The current system isnt fair. Washington is

fundamentally corrupt. There are more words in the IRS code than there are in the Bible and and not

a one of them is as good.

(LAUGHTER)

Every one of them reflects a carve-out or a subsidy, and its all about empowering the Washington cartel.

My simple Flat Tax says that, for a family of four, for the first $36,000 you earn, you pay no taxes

whatsoever. No income taxes, no payroll taxes, no nothing.


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Above that, every American pays 10 percent across the board a flat, fair tax. Which means that no

longer do you have hedge-fund billionaires paying a lower tax rate than their secretaries.

On the business side, Ive got a business flat tax of 16 percent again, that applies across the board.

Right now, with our corporate income tax, giant corporations with armies of accountants regularly are

paying little to no taxes while small businesses are getting hammered.

This is fair and across-the-board. Now, you ask, how do the numbers add up? I would encourage folks, if

you go to our website, tedcruz.org, we have the specific numbers on the website.

This plan eliminates the payroll tax, eliminates the death tax, eliminates the corporate income tax, and it

abolishes the IRS.

(APPLAUSE)

And the effect of that is incredible economic growth. It means every income group will see double-digit

increases, from the very poorest to the very weakest, of at least 14 percent.

So if youre a single mom, if youre making $40,000 a year, what that means is an extra about $5,000 in

your pocket to provide for your kids, to make ends meet. It has a powerful, powerful effect.

And theres one other really powerful feature of my plan, which is that its border-adjustable. Which means,

if youre an exporter if youre a farmer, if youre a rancher, if youre a manufacturer, you dont pay the

businesses flat tax.

Exports are free of that tax, but all imports pay that 16 percent business flat tax, which means this tax plan

would cause jobs to boom, and it would let America compete with China and the world on a level playing

field.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

But you havent told us how to pay for it.

CRUZ:

Well, the numbers the Tax Foundation had put out is that the static cost of the plan is $3.6 trillion over 10

years, but the dynamic cost of the plan, which which is the cost that factors in growth, is about $768

billion.

It is less than a trillion. It costs less than virtually every other plan people have put up here, and yet itproduces more growth and its one of the very few plans that abolishes the IRS.

But on top of that, today, we rolled out a spending plan. $500 billion in specific cuts five major agencies

that I would eliminate. The IRS, the Department of Commerce, the Department of Energy, the Department

of Commerce, and HUD and then 25 specific programs.

Again, thats on our website at tedcruz.org. You want to look at specificity? Its easy for everyone to say,

cut spending. Its much harder and riskier to put out, chapter and verse, specifically the programs you

would cut to stop bankrupting our kids and grandkids.


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BARTIROMO:

Thank you, Senator.

(APPLAUSE)

Governor Bush, Republican primary voters say tax reform should be a priority for Congress and the

administration. But, Governor Bush, how important is tax reform in your domestic policy agenda? Will you

guarantee it in the first year of your presidency?

BUSH:

Im gonna fight as hard as I can to make sure that we shift power away from Washington, simplify the tax

code, to spur economic activity in this country. Of course its the highest priority.

If we dont do that, were stuck with the new normal of 2 percent growth. Hillary Clinton says, basically,

we just gotta get used to it. Two percent growth means declining income for the middle class. It means

more than 6 million people are stuck in poverty than the day that Barack Obama was inaugurated.

It means it means more demands on government growing the economy is the first job, if were goingto be serious about dealing with the deficit and debt. And more importantly, people are really struggling

right now.

In this economy, the disposable income of the great middle is down 2,300 bucks. So yeah, weve created

jobs, your argue (ph) brought that up early, and it was a good question. Jobs are being created, but

theyre lower-income jobs than the jobs that were lost.

And the net effect of this is we need to jump-start the economy. I think of Jonathan (ph) and Reagan Love

(ph), who are supporters of mine. Jonathan has been deployed by the National Guard, he is hes in

Oklahoma.

Reagan Love by the way, pretty great name, I think is a teacher. When if they had this tax cut,

what they told me was that that $2,300 of money in their pocket they would go back to South Carolina

and start a business.

Imagine what it would be like, instead of having more businesses closed than started, we had it the exact

opposite. We would grow our economy, and the government would get the revenue necessary to make

things make things better.

Hillary Clintons approach to this is more top-down, more regulation, more taxes, more government, and it

will destroy our economy.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Thank you, Governor.

BAKER:

Senator Rubio. Can I just come to Senator Rubio? Were coming to you, Mr. Trump, in one second. I I


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promise.

TRUMP:

Yes.

BAKER:

Senator Rubio, your tax plan includes a large expansion of child tax credits to raise off (ph) the tax

incomes for low-income parents. A similar tax credit that you previously proposed in the Senate was

estimated to cost as much as $170 billion a year, according to the Tax Foundation.

Isnt isnt there a risk youre just adding another expensive entitle program to an already overburdened

federal budget?

RUBIO:

The most important job Im ever going to have, the most important job anyone in this room will ever have,is the job of being a parent. Not the job of being president, or the job of being a senator, or the job of being

a congressman.

The most important job any of us will ever do is the job of being a president (sic), because the most

important institution in society is the family. If the family breaks down, society breaks down.

You cant have a strong nation without strong values, and no one is born with strong values. They have to

be taught to you in strong families and reinforced in you in strong communities.

And so when we set out to do tax reform, we endeavor to have a pro-family tax code, and we endeavor to

do it because we know how difficult it is for families in the 21st century to afford the cost of living.

It is expensive to raise children in the 21st century, and families that are raising children are raising the

future taxpayers of the United States, and everything costs more. In 35 out of 50 states, child care costs

more than college.

There are millions of people watching this broadcast tonight that understand exactly what Im talking about.

They dont know how theyre going to make that payment every month, and if they cant make it, they cant

work, because someone needs to watch their kids during the day. They dont know how theyre going to

save for their kids future, to go to college.

And so, yes, I have a child tax credit increase, and Im proud of it. I am proud that I have a pro-family tax

code, because the pro- family tax plan I have will strengthen the most important institution in the in thecountry, the family.

PAUL:

Neil, theres a point Id like to make here

(APPLAUSE)

.Neil, a point that Id like to make about the tax credits.


27/60

We have to decide what is conservative and what isnt conservative. Is it fiscally conservative to have a

trillion-dollar expenditure? Were not talking about giving people back their tax money. Hes talking about

giving people money they didnt pay. Its a welfare transfer payment.

So heres what we have. Is it conservative to have $1 trillion in transfer payments a new welfare

program thats a refundable tax credit? Add that to Marcos plan for $1 trillion in new military spending, and

you get something that looks, to me, not very conservative. Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

BAKER:

Governor Kasich? Let me come to Governor Kasich.

TRUMP:

No, Im sorry. No, excuse me. I was there.

BAKER:

Governor Kasich.

(CROSSTALK)

BAKER:

Very quickly, Senator.

RUBIO:

Now I get my 60 seconds to respond. Hes talking about my tax plan.

BAKER:

Please.

RUBIO:

So let me begin with this. I actually believe first of all, this is their money. They do pay. It is refundable,

not just against the taxes they pay to the government, but also the on their federal income tax, its

refundable against the payroll tax.

Everyone pays payroll tax. This is their money. This is not our money. And heres what I dont understand

if you invest that money in a piece of equipment, if you invest that money in a business, you get to write

it off your taxes.


28/60

But if you invest it in your children, in the future of America and strengthening your family, were not going

to recognize that in our tax code? The family is the most important institution in society. And, yes

PAUL:

Nevertheless, its not very conservative, Marco.

RUBIO:

I do want to rebuild the American military.

PAUL:

How is it conservative?

RUBIO:

I know that Rand is a committed isolationist. Im not. I believe the world is a stronger and a better place,

when the United States is the strongest military power in the world.

PAUL:

Yeah, but, Marco! Marco! How is it conservative, how is it conservative to add a trillion-dollar expenditure

for the federal government that youre not paying for?

RUBIO:

Because

PAUL:

How is it conservative?

RUBIO:

are you talking about the military, Rand?

PAUL How is it conservative to add a trillion dollars in military expenditures? You can not be a conservative

if youre going to keep promoting new programs that youre not going to pay for.

(APPLAUSE)

RUBIO:

We cant even have an economy if were not safe. There are radical jihadist in the Middle East beheading

people and crucifying Christians. A radical Shia cleric in Iran trying to get a nuclear weapon, the Chinese


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taking over the South China Sea

(APPLAUSE)

RUBIO:

Yes, I believe the world is a safer no, no, I dont believe, I know that the world is a safer place when

America is the strongest military power in the world.

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE)

PAUL:

No. I dont think were any safer I do not think we are any safer from bankruptcy court. As we go further,

and further into debt, we become less, and less safe. This is the most important thing were going to talk

about tonight. Can you be a conservative, and be liberal on military spending? Can you be for unlimited

military spending, and say, Oh, Im going to make the country safe? No, we need a safe country, but, you

know, we spend more on our military than the next ten countries combined?

I want a strong national defense, but I dont want us to be bankrupt.

(BELL RINGING)

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ:

Middle ground that brings both of these together

FIORINA:

Yes, the middle ground is this

CRUZ:

Exactly right, that we have to defend this nation. You think defending this nation is expensive, try not

defending it. Thats a lot more expensive.


CRUZ:

But, you can do that, and pay for it. You can do that, and also be fiscally responsible. You know, I mention

that the 25 programs that I put today, that I would eliminate them. Among them are corporate welfare, like

sugar subsidies. Lets take that as an example. Sugar subsidies. Sugar farmers farm under

(BELL RINGING)


30/60

CRUZ:

under roughly 0.2% of the farmland in America, and yet they give 40% of the lobbying money. That sort

of corporate welfare is why were bankrupting our kids, and grandkids. I would end those subsidies to pay

for defending this nation

BAKER:

Gentleman, we need to move on

FIORINA:

This is why this is why we must combine, actually, zero-based budgeting with tax reform because

unless we can examine, and cut, and move, every single dollar of discretionary spending in the federal

government, we cannot reform taxes and reduce spending at the same time.

Ask yourself this question, how is it possible that the federal government gets more money each and every

year, which the federal government has been doing, receiving more money every year for 50 years under

republicans and democrats alike, and yet, never has enough money to do the important things?

The answer? All the moneys always spoken for. All the moneys spoken for. So, we have to go to zero-

based budgeting, which is a simple idea by the way, theres been a bill for zeros-based (ph)

budgeting

(BELL RINGING)

FIORINA:

It exists, it can be voted on. Every dollar must be examined. Any dollar can be cut. Any dollar can be cut,

any dollar can be moved. We have to go to a three page tax code. You lower every rate, you close every

loophole, why? Because the government uses the tax code to decide winners, and losers. You have to

strip the corruption out of the tax code to pay for it. You have to know where every single dollar is being

spent

BAKER:

We need to move

FIORINA:

Cut where you need to, and invest where you need to

BAKER:

We need too

FIORINA:


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The two go hand in hand

BAKER:

We do need to move on. Mr. Trump

TRUMP:

Please, if I could just

BAKER:

Very quick.

TRUMP:

We have to make our military bigger, better, stronger than ever before so that nobody messes with us, and

a long run, its going to save us. I agree with Marco, I agree with Ted, we have no choice. And, I can tell

you this with certainty. We all have a different tax plan. Some I dont totally agree with.

One thing we understand, each one of those tax plans is better than the mess that we have right now.

(APPLAUSE)

BAKER:

Lets talk about No, no, Governor, I really must move on. I really want to move on.

Mr. Trump, lets talk about the international economy

KASICH:

Mr. Baker, everybody got to talk about taxes

BAKER:

We really need to move on

KASICH:

I think you were coming to me and then

BAKER:

No, governor, I promise I will come to you


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KASICH:

Look, I hate to crash the party to you, Mr. Baker, but, you know, whats fair

BAKER:

Listen

KASICH:

Yes, sir

BAKER:

Mr. Trump, can I ask you about

TRUMP:

Yes

BAKER:

the U.S. just concluded an international trade agreement with 11 countries in the Pacific. Youve said

that youd rather have no deal

TRUMP:

Yeah

BAKER:

than sign the one thats on the table

TRUMP:

Its a horrible deal

BAKER:

Most economists most economists say that trade is boosted growth, and every single post war

president has supported the expansion of international trade, including the last three republican

presidents. Why would you reverse more than 50 years of U.S. trade policy?

TRUMP:

The TPP is horrible deal. It is a deal that is going to lead to nothing but trouble. Its a deal that was


33/60

designed for China to come in, as they always do, through the back door and totally take advantage of

everyone. Its 5,600 pages long. So complex that nobodies read it. Its like Obamacare; nobody ever read

it. They passed it; nobody read it. And look at mess we have right now. And it will be repealed.

But this is one of the worst trade deals. And I would, yes, rather not have it. With all of these countries, and

all of the bad ones getting advantage and taking advantage of what the good ones would normally get, Id

rather make individual deals with individual countries. We will do much better.

We lose a fortune on trade. The United States loses with everybody. Were losing now over $500 billion in

terms of imbalance with China, $75 billion a year imbalance with Japan. By the way, Mexico, $50 billion a

year imbalance.

So I must say, Gerard, I just think its a terrible deal. I love trade. Im a free trader, 100 percent. But we

need smart people making the deals, and we dont have smart people making the deals.

BAKER:

The the deal, as you say, the terms of the deal were published were published just last week, the

details, 5,000 pages of it, and 80 percent of U.S. trade with countries in the Pacific, these countries, these

11 countries, is actually tariff-free, and these the trade deal only affects the other 20 percent. Which are there particular parts of the deal that you think were badly negotiated?

TRUMP:

Yes. Well, the currency manipulation they dont discuss in the agreement, which is a disaster. If you look at

the way China and India and almost everybody takes advantage of the United States China in particular,

because theyre so good. Its the number-one abuser of this country. And if you look at the way they take

advantage, its through currency manipulation. Its not even discussed in the almost 6,000-page

agreement. Its not even discussed.

BAKER:

There was a separate separate

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP:

And as you understand, I mean, you understand very well from the Wall Street Journal, currency

manipulation is the single great weapon people have. They dont even discuss it in this agreement.

So I say, its a very bad deal, should not be approved. If it is approved, it will just be more bad trade deals,

more loss of jobs for our country. We are losing jobs like nobodys ever lost jobs before. I want to bring jobs

back into this country.

PAUL:

Hey, Gerard, you know, we might want to point out China is not part of this deal.


34/60

(UNKNOWN)

True. Its true.

BARTIROMO:

Thats right. Thats right.

PAUL:

Before we get a little bit off-kilter here

BAKER:

But isnt that isnt that part of the problem? When I say, Senator, that if if this deal is not ratified by

by the U.S. by the Senate, then it would actually give China an opportunity to grow its economic

leadership, which its been seeking to do? And if the U.S. is unable to take part in this trade deal with thesecountries in Asia, China will take the lead?

PAUL:

There is an argument that China doesnt like the deal, because in us doing the deal, well be trading with

their competitors. Youre exactly right. But I think weve sort of missed the point a little bit here.

There is an important point, though, about how we discuss these trade treaties that I do agree with Mr.

Trump on. We should negotiate from a position of strength. And we also should negotiate using the full

force and the constitutional power that was given to us. I think its a mistake that we give up power to the

presidency on these trade deals. We give up the power to filibuster, and Im kind of fond of that power.

(LAUGHTER)

We give up the power to amend. And I think, really, one of the big problems we have in our country is, over

the last century, really, so much power has gravitated to the executive branch. Really, Congress is kind of

a bystander. We dont write the rules. We dont make the laws. The executive branch does. So even in

trade and I am for trade I think we should be careful about giving so much power to the presidency.

(APPLAUSE)

BAKER:

Thank you. Thanks, Senator.

BARTIROMO:

Coming up, the biggest threats facing the next commander-in-chief. Youre watching the Republican

presidential debate, live tonight from Milwaukee. Well be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)


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BARTIROMO:

Welcome back. Welcome back to the Republican presidential debate. The candidates taking the questions

you want answered. Also tonight, you can see what America is saying about the debate. Go to Facebook

and type #gopdebate into the search box.

Now, back to the questions. Americans face security threats at home and abroad. Last year, terrorist

attacks rose 61 percent, according to the Institute for Economics and Peace, with the most deaths

occurring in just five countries, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, and Syria.

Dr. Carson, you were against putting troops on the ground in Iraq and against a large military force in

Afghanistan. Do you support the presidents decision to now put 50 special ops forces in Syria and leave

10,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan?

CARSON:

Well, putting the special ops people in there is better than not having them there, because they thats

why theyre called special ops, theyre actually able to guide some of the other things that were doing

there.

And what we have to recognize is that Putin is trying to really spread his influence throughout the Middle

East. This is going to be his base. And we have to oppose him there in an effective way.

We also must recognize that its a very complex place. You know, the Chinese are there, as well as the

Russians, and you have all kinds of factions there.

What weve been doing so far is very ineffective, but we cant give up ground right there. But we have to

look at this on a much more global scale. Were talking about global jihadists. And their desire is to destroy

us and to destroy our way of life. So we have to be saying, how do we make them look like losers?

Because thats the way that theyre able to gather a lot of influence.

And I think in order to make them look like losers, we have to destroy their caliphate. And you look for the

easiest place to do that? It would be in Iraq. And if outside of Anbar in Iraq, theres a big energy field.

Take that from them. Take all of that land from them. We could do that, I believe, fairly easily, Ive learned

from talking to several generals, and then you move on from there.

But you have to continue to face them, because our goal is not to contain them, but to destroy them before

they destroy us.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

We asked Facebook to take a look at some of the major issues were talking about, and tackling in this

debate tonight. This word cloud shows what people are focusing on the most. The bigger the word, the

more the talk. One of the most discussed issues in the last month, homeland security. Governor Bush,

what is the biggest threat facing America today?

BUSH:


36/60

It is Id say it is Islamic terrorism, and, back to the question of what we are dealing with in Iraq, when we

pull back voids are filled. Thats the lesson of history, and, sadly, this president does not believe in

American leadership. He does not believe it, and the net result is that we have a caliphate the size of

Indiana that gains energy each and everyday to recruit Americans in our own country, and the threat to the

homeland relates to the fact that we have not dealt with this threat of terror in the Middle East.

We should have a no fly zone in Syria. We should have a support for the remnants of the Syrian Free

Army, and create safe zones. If you want to deal with the four million refugees that are leaving Syria

because of the devastation there, then we ought to create safe zones for them to stay in the region ratherthan go to Europe. And, that requires American leadership.

Without American leadership every other country in the neighborhood beings to change their priorities. It is

tragic that you see Iraq, and other countries now talking to Russia. It wasnt that long ago that Russia had

no influence in the region at all. And, so, the United States needs to lead across the board.

This president, and Hillary Clinton both do not believe the United States has a leadership role to play, and

were now paying a price, and it will have a huge impact on the economy of this country if we dont deal

with this.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Trump, in 2012 debate, President Obama mocked Mitt Romneys assertion that Russia was the top

geopolitical challenge facing the United States, saying he was a Cold War dinosaur. Now, Russia has

invaded Ukraine, and has put troops in Syria. You have said you will have a good relationship with Mr.

Putin. So, what does President Trump do in response to Russias aggression?

TRUMP:

Well, first of all, its not only Russia. We have problems with North Korea where they actually have nuclear

weapons. You know, nobody talks about it, we talk about Iran, and thats one of the worst deals ever

made. One of the worst contracts ever signed, ever, in anything, and its a disgrace. But, we have

somebody over there, a madman, who already has nuclear weapons we dont talk about that. Thats a

problem.

China is a problem, both economically in what theyre doing in the South China Sea, I mean, they are

becoming a very, very major force. So, we have more than just Russia. But, as far as the Ukraine is

concerned, and you could Syria as far as Syria, I like if Putin wants to go in, and I got to know himvery well because we were both on 60 Minutes, we were stablemates, and we did very well that night.

But, you know that.

But, if Putin wants to go and knocked the hell out of ISIS, I am all for it, 100%, and I cant understand how

anybody would be against it

BUSH:

Theyre not doing that


37/60

TRUMP:

They blew up hold it.

BUSH:

(INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP:

They blew up, wait a minute

(AUDIENCE REACTION)

TRUMP:

They blew up a Russian airplane. He cannot be in love with these people. Hes going in, and we can go

in, and everybody should go in. As far as the Ukraine is concerned, we have a group of people, and a

group of countries, including Germany tremendous economic behemoth why are we always doing

the work?

We are Im all for protecting Ukraine and working but, we have countries that are surrounding the

Ukraine that arent doing anything. They say, Keep going, keep going, you dummies, keep going. Protect

us

(BELL RINGING)

TRUMP:

And we have to get smart. We cant continue to be the policeman of the world. We are $19 trillion

dollars, we have a country thats going to hell, we have an infrastructure thats falling apart. Our roads, our

bridges, our schools, our airports, and we have to start investing money in our country.

(APPLAUSE)

BARTIROMO:

Thank you, sir.

BUSH:

Donald Donalds wrong on this. He is absolutely wrong on this. Were not going to be the worlds

policeman, but we sure as heck better be the worlds leader. Thats theres a huge difference where,

without us leading

(CHEERING)


38/60

BUSH:

voids are filled, and the idea that its a good idea for Putin to be in Syria, let ISIS take out Assad, and

then Putin will take out ISIS? I mean, thats like a board game, thats like playing Monopoly or something.

Thats not how the real world works.

We have to lead, we have to be involved. We should have a no fly zone in Syria. There are they are

barrel bombing the innocents in that country. If youre a Christian, increasingly in Lebanon, or Iraq, or

Syria, youre going to be beheaded. And, if youre a moderate Islamist, youre not going to be able to

survive either.

We have to play a role in this be able to bring the rest of the world to this issue before its too late.

TRUMP:

Assad is a bad guy, but we have no idea who the so-called rebels I read about the rebels, nobody even

knows who they are. I spoke to a general two weeks ago, he said he was very up on exactly what were

talking about. He said, You know, Mr. Trump? Were giving hundreds of millions of dollars of equipment to

these people, we have no idea who they are.

So, I dont like Assad. Whos going to like Assad? But, we have no idea who these people, and what

theyre going to be, and what theyre going to represent. They may be far worse than Assad. Look at Libya.

Look at Iraq. Look at the mess we have after spending $2 trillion dollars, thousands of lives, wounded

warriors all over the place who I love, OK? All over.

We have nothing. And, I said, keep the oil. And we should have kept the oil, believe me. We should have

kept the oil. And, you know what? We should have given the oil

(BELL BRINGING)

We shouldve given big chunks to the people that lost their arms, their legs, and their families, and theirsons, and daughters, because right now, you know who has a lot of that oil? Iran, and ISIS.

FIORINA:

You know, Mr. Trump fancies himself a very good negotiator. And, I accept that hes done a lot of good

deals, so, Mr. Trump ought to know that we should not speak to people from a position of weakness.

Senator Paul should know that as well.

One of the reasons Ive said that I would not be talking to Vladimir Putin right now, although I have met him

as well, not in a green room for a show, but in a private meeting.

(LAUGHTER) (APPLAUSE) (CHEERING)

FIORINA:

One of the reasons Ive said I wouldnt be talking to Vladimir Putin right now is because we are speaking to

him from a position of weakness brought on by this administration, so, I wouldnt talk to him for awhile, but,

I would do this. I would start rebuilding the Sixth Fleet right under his nose, rebuilding the military the

missile defense program in Poland right under his nose. I would conduct very aggressive military

exercises in the Baltic States so that he understood we would protect our NATO allies


39/60

(BELL RINGING)

and I might also put in a few more thousand troops into Germany, not to start a war, but to make sure

that Putin understand that the United States of America will stand with our allies. That is why Governor

Bush is correct. We must have a no fly zone in Syria because Russia cannot tell the United States of

America where and when to fly our planes. We also have a set of allies

(APPLAUSE)

FIORINA:

We also have a set of allies in the Arab Middle East that know that ISIS is their fight. They have asked us

specifically over, and over again to support them. King Abdullah of Jordan, a man Ive known for a very

long time, has asked us for bombs and material, we have not provided it.

The Egyptians are asking us to share intelligence, we are not, I will. The Kurds have asked us to arm them

for three years, we are not, I would. The Egyptians, the Saudis, the Kuwaitis, the Bahrains, the Emirati, the

Kurds

(BELL RINGING)

all of these, I know, by the way, understand ISIS is their fight, but they must see leadership support and

resolve from the United States of America

MALE:

let me follow up that

FIORINA:

we have the strongest military on the face of the planet, and everyone has to know it.

CAVUTO:

Senator Paul


CAVUTO:

Senator Paul, you have already said, sir, that that would be a mistake in not talking to Vladimir Putin, or to

rule it out. Youve argued that its never a good idea to close down communication. With that in mind, do

you think the same applies to administration efforts right now to include the Iranians in talks on Syria?

PAUL:

Id like first to respond to the acquisition, we should I think its particularly naive, particularly foolish to

think that were not going to talk to Russia. The idea of a no fly zone, realize that this is also something that

Hillary Clinton agrees with several on our side with, youre asking for a no fly zone in an area in which


40/60

Russia already flies.

Russia flies in that zone at the invitation of Iraq. Im not saying its a good thing, but you better know at

least what were getting into. So, when you think its going to be a good idea to have a no fly zone over

Iraq, realize that means you are saying we are going to shoot down Russian planes. If youre ready for

that, be ready to send your sons and daughters to another war in Iraq.

I dont want to see that happen. I think the first war in Iraq was a mistake

(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE)

PAUL:

You can be strong without being involved in every civil war around the war

MALE:

(INAUDIBLE)

CAVUTO:

Well, then how would you respond?

PAUL:

Ronald Reagan was strong, but Ronald Reagan didnt

FIORINA:

Ronald Reagan walked away at Reykjavik.

PAUL:

send troops into the Middle East

FIORINA:

he walked away, he quit talks

PAUL:

Can I finish

FIORINA:

when it was time to quit talking


41/60

PAUL:

Can I finish my time?

PAUL:

Could I finish with my time?

TRUMP:

Why does she keep interrupting everybody?

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP:

Terrible.

(BOOING)

PAUL:

Yes, I would like to finish my response, basically.

RUBIO:

You know, if I may respond

PAUL:

This is an important question. This is an incredibly important question. And the question goes to be, who

do we want to be our commander-in-chief? Do you want a commander-in-chief who says something that

we never did throughout the entire Cold War, to discontinue having conversations with the Russians?

I am not happy about them flying over there. But Im not naive enough to say, well, Iraq has them flying

over their airspace, were just going to announce that were shooting them down?

That is naive to the point of being something you might hear in junior high. But its scary

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO:

But if youre not going to respond in a no-fly zone strategy, what would yours be?

PAUL:

The first thing I would do is I wouldnt arm our enemies. I wouldnt arm ISIS.


42/60


Most of the people who want to the no-fly zone also favored arming the allies of al Qaeda, which became

ISIS. That was the dumbest, most foolhardy notion. And most of the people up here supported it. They

wanted to arm the allies of al Qaeda. Some of them still do.

Thats how ISIS grew. We pushed back Assad, and ISIS was allowed to grow in the vacuum. So the first

thing you do is dont arm your enemies.

(CROSSTALK)

RUBIO:

I need to add a couple of points to this. The first is, Ive never met Vladimir Putin, but I know enough about

him to know he is a gangster. He is basically an organized crime figure that runs a country, controls a $2

trillion economy. And is using to build up his military in a rapid way despite the fact his economy is a

disaster.

He understands only geopolitical strength. And every time he has acted anywhere in the world, whether its

in Ukraine or Georgia before that, or now in the Middle East, its because he is trusting in weakness.

His calculation in the Middle East is that he has seen what this president has done, which is nothing, the

president has no strategy, our allies in the region do not trust us. For goodness sake, there is only one pro-

American free enterprise democracy in the Middle East, it is the state of Israel.

And we have a president that treats the prime minister of Israel with less respect than what he gives the

ayatollah in Iran. And so our allies in the region dont trust us.


Vladimir Putin is exploiting that weakness, for purposes of edging the Americans out as the most important

geopolitical power broker in the region. And we do have a vested interest. And heres why.

Because all those radical terrorist groups that, by the way, are not just in Syria and in Iraq, ISIS is now in

Libya. They are a significant presence in Libya, and in Afghanistan, and a growing presence in Pakistan.

Soon they will be in Turkey. They will try Jordan. They will try Saudi Arabia. They are coming to us. They

recruit Americans using social media. And they dont hate us simply because we support Israel. They hate

us because of our values. They hate us because our girls go to school. They hate us because women

drive in the United States.

Either they win or w

fourthrepublicandebate 11-9-15

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