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Prepared for

EPA - REGION VI EMERGENCY RESPONSE BRANCH

Gerald W. Fontenot Deputy Project Officer

By

Roy F. Weston, Inc. Technical Assistance Team

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OPENING REMARKS - Charles Gazda, ERB Chief

First I'd like to thank you for taking the time to meet with us and I do hope that we can bring some information to your attention which will help ease your mind relative to the situation that exist here. If you have not registered on the cards in the back I would appreciate you did that, I think we probably have the names and addresses of most of you here already, but just in case we haven't, it would be nice of you to do that so we can be sure to put you on our mailing list.

I do have a few people here that I would like to recognize tonight. One is Mr. Cric',:.ir who is the city manager of Texarkana, Mr. Crider, thank you. Reverend Mccurry, appreciate you for coming. Mr. Robertson who is here representing the Texas Black Chamber of Commerce.

The purpose of our meeting here tonight is to discuss what the Environmental Protection Agency will be doing at the Koppers Site.

The procedure that I would like to follow is to briefly explain what this program is, Each of the people you see up here I will introduce in just a minute, will also make a brief presentation relative to the specific areas that they are involved with the Koppers Site. I would ask that you hold any questions until we make our presentation. I think that during these presentations a lot of your questions and concerns might al ready be covered. I would like to keep this meeting confined to just the discussion on the Koppers Site, so that we can be sure to cover all areas and that everyone's questions and concerns are covered.

There are really two areas to the so-called Superfund Program that the E.P.A. administers. One is the so-called Removal Program, which covers a wide range of activities including removing drums, tanks, emptying pits, as well as putting up a fence.

The other part of the Superfund Program is what Mr. Cochran will talk about later is the so-called Remedial Program, or the long term program, the removal program is the short term program to take care of any problems that might be causing an immediate threat, relative to a leaking pit or some drums on the site that some one may come in contact with that they need to remove before anybody ia harmed by it. The remedial program then takes over and studies the long term effects and how a site can be cleaned up in its 6ntirt~y_and it takes a good bit more time,

C /.£,r<L I .s "-"- J Briefly, to give you some idea of how our program works in our regional office in Dallas Texas, when we look at a site such as Koppers, Any site which makes the so-called National Priorities List is brought to our attention, we will send someone out to look at the site, investigate it, possibly collect samples and come back to make some determination if in fact we need to do something fairly quickly at that site. In some cases it might


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be the next day, in some cases maybe a couple of months down the road, in any case if something has to be done fairly quickly to protect any one that might be living in the area or may wander on the site u~knowingly that this is a hazardous waste site, or any threats to the environment that may include the streams or something like that.

We then go to our Regional Administrator: who has the authority to spend the money to do the work. When he gives us that approval, we then go to our enforcement people and our attorneys to contact the responsible party to give them the opportunity to do the work. They then have the option of doing the work that we had intended, then we will simply monitor their work and not spend any federal money on that.

If they choose not to do that or we cannot find a responsible party, then we will use federal money to do the work. If we later find someone who we feel is the responsible party or either had some association with that site then we can take some legal actions to try to recover our money back and put back in the fund. In this case the Kopper's people have agreed to do the work, the so-called removal work that we're going to do as far as fencing around the south part of the site. So we will be working closely with them in that effort.

To expand on that more as to why we are doing that, the data that we have found both in the gravel pit area and residential area I want to introduce at this point Mr. David Lopez.

Mr. David Lopez: (presents maps and film to the public to explain status)

What I'd like to do is to first of all give you some background on how we became involved. Like Mr. Gazda pointed out, it required sometime before we actually got out here but just to give you an idea of what has been happening since EPA first found out about this situation, there was a survey made in late 1979, eatly 1980 to try to identify all potential hazardous waste sites, at that time the Koppers facility of this particular site was brought to our attention. At that time a preliminary assessment of this particular site was scheduled and directed in 1981. That was the first visit. Between that time and 1984, the EPA and Texas Department of Water Resources worked together with the DeP,artment of Water Resources conducting the investigation and taking immediate action with the responsible parties that were identified at the time. In April of 1984, last year, the Department of Water Resources referred the site to the Environmental Protection as a proposed site for the National Priorities List. Between April and September of 1984, EPA and the State worked on the ranking package that is required before a site is submitted to the NPL. The site was submitted in September and by

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early October it was placed on the NPL through the second update, It was also at that time that I with the emergency response branch, made two visits to this particular site.

One was in September to make a what is called a site reconnaissance to to try and figure out what we might need to do under our scope of responsibility for the removal program, as Mr. Gazda explained, if anything. It was decided at that time that we needed to get more information. So in October, myself and a team from our group came over here, we collected some samples from the Sand Gravel operation as well as from your residential area here. Between the time that the samples were collected and late November the results of the analysis were received we evaluated that data and made recommendations to our regional administrator then the first week in December was when we met with our regional administrator. Based on the data we had, he authorized us to use federal funds, and if need be, to provide for site security as well as warning signs as appropriate. That pretty much brings us to this point. The purpose of this meeting is also to inform you and let you know whats going to happen so that you wi 11 not be surprised.

The EPA and Koppers will be working at the site very soon, like in the next week, constructing a fence and putting up some warning signs. That briefly gives you the background of how we've been involved in this thing and brings it at pretty much this point.

The slides that I have will show you the area where the samples were collected as well as where the fence will be placed.

Shows slides . ....•.•.....•.........•

The analysis of the samples will include chemicals that are associated sometimes with the chemical creosote type, waste or materials. They also will include analytical work for Dioxins.

Mr. Gazda introduces Mr. George Buynoski, Center for Disease Control.

Mr. Buynoeki:

Good evening everyone. Prior to getting to our purpose for being here which is to hear your concerns and any questions you might specifically have. I would like to make a few brief comments to explain CDCs role in superfund. Perhaps all of you are aware that the various health responsibilities under the Superfund program belong to the Department of Health and Human Services and it's component agencies. The lead agency within Health & Human Services is the Centers for Disease control or CDC. I work for that agency, specifically for the Center of Environmental Health.


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We have two major responsibilities under the law, one is to provide advice and assistance to the EPA, to the State and Local Health and environmental agencies on any issues that involve environmental public health problems. The second area we work in is to expand and enlarge the field of knowledge in the area of human health effects resulting from exposure to toxic or hazardous substance. In that context, our work at Koppers to date has been to review and analyze the sampling material that Mr. Lopez talked about. We have analyzed this material and tried to determine two things, one if any acute or immediate health threat exist in the areas surrounding the site, with specific reference to obviously the subdivision and secondly to look at this with a more long term or chronic exposure outlook. We have analyzed this or the sample results as I've said and our position right now based on what evidence is available, is that there is no immediate threat to anyone within the Carver subdivision. The levels that are shown in the respective samples taken in that area do not show significant contamination. Now questions of long term chronic problems and so forth, I'm sure will come up. Again the evidence that we have today would not suggest any chronic problems, but I would on potential chronic problems withhold any further discussion, because Mr. John Cochren is going to discuss the long term outlook. There is much more investigations and sampling that will occur, and quite obviously the more information and data that we do have available, the better we wil 1 be able to make some kind of judgment.

These are the only opening comments I wanted to make, and if you have any specific questions, I will try to answer them as they come up.

Thank You.

Mr. Gazda Introduces Mr. John Cochren, superfund Remedial Program.

Mr. Cochren:

It's the goal of the Remedial Program to provide a permanent solution in the problem we have here. The solution requires some fairly extensive sampling, and other detail reports to be written. One of the results of this fact is that it will take quite a while. I'll give you an idea of the time scale {inaudible) a little bit later. Let me give you an overview of the remedial program and then I'll go back with a little more detail in various steps. We can break the remedial program down into a number of steps. The first step would be to go out in the field and take samples, we refer to this as the remedial investigation, there will be various soil borings, surface water samples, and ground water samples collected. After those samples have been collected and run through a laboratory a report will be

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written, That report will be part of the remedial investigation, After that the next step will be the Feasibility Study, In the Feasibility Study, we take a look at the various solutions to the problem that we find here, Would it be best to dig it up and haul it away, can we treat it place, can we leave it there without doing anything to it without it causing any harm to us? After those two phases have been conducted, the immediate investigation and feasibility studies; the proper solution will be chosen, The agency refers to this as the Record of Decision. To take a look at all the alternatives, to take a look at all the problems, and we choose the best alternative to solve any problems we find here, After that with that particular solution, maybe it will be a wall to keep the ground water in, or something like that, will be designed and finally the construction of the project whatever it might be.

we will come back on a little more detail on each of those steps, Prior to the beginning of the investigation we need a work plan, it is a detailed set of instructions, where to sample, what to sample for, how many . 'llples to take, etc. This is referred to as the Remedial Inve, .gation and Feasibility Study work plan. That is currently being developed. We've subcontracted a major consultant in Dallas, actually its a National Consulting firm, Camp Dresso: & McKee, who is putting that together for the EPA. Once that plan is put together we will work with the potential responsible parties to see if they are interested in conducting the investigation, if they are interested in conducting the investigation, we will negotiate with them, and if they are agreeable, then the EPA with responsible parties will bind themselves to the work plan with a legal d,,cument, This is an administrative order (inaudible),

If the potential responsible parties ~gree to conduct the work, well then they will begin sometime I auAuma late spring or early summer with field work. If they are unwiJ ling to conduct the investigation, then the EPA will fund the i~vestigation. The same investigation will be conducted in any case. What we will do is there will be various soil borinqs_ monitoring wells, sampling surface and ground waters, a:.d maybe some air monitoring. When all the data has been gatlE,,~d, it will go to the lab facilities, which takes quite a wh•le. when Commercial Labs run one sample through full scan, it 11.ight. charge from 800 to 1000 dollars, Sometimes it takes literally 11,onths turnaround time, between when the samples leaves here and when the data comes back, Once the field work and laborator ! work is done, a report will be written, After that report is w1itten there is a feasibility study, we will take a look at what w• have found and various alternatives and review them, How well ones digging out and hauling away, or will that solve the problem? How •,•ell does just leaving it there solve the problem? If the concent.i:-,.tion is quite low, then just leaving it there might be enough. So the


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feasibility study has been scheduled, all the various alternatives against certain criteria, for example cost, environmental concern, engineering feasibility, after those two documents are completed the remedial investigation and feasibility study, those reports will be placed here in a city depositoi:y and you can take a look at them. There will also be a public comment period at that point where you can review the documents and provide any written comments, which the EPA will follow up on,

So after the remedial investigation feasibility study, then we go into the record of decision, and that is EPAs choice of the best solution to the problem oi: problems that ace found at the site. This will be a formal document. A legally enforceable document we hope, stating our findings and what needs to be done at the site. After that, we will again approach the potential responsible parties, and ask them if they would like to implement their own. If they are intei:ested we will negotiate with them. If they agree to implement that remedy, with the EPA guidance, then they have the oppoi:tunity to design the remedy, and then actually construct it. If potential responsible parties aren't willing then the EPA will design the remedy and they will contract the option of instruction to whoever it might be, That's essentially all I have to present, One thing I would like to point out is that it is going to be a very detailed study, And detailed studies take time. So we're not looking at the final answer to what's here and what's not here, probably not for a year and a half or another two years. The work will be ongoing at all times, just like the woi:k is on g lng at Camp Dresser & McKee, putting together the woi:k plan.

Mr. Gazda opens meeting to the public for questions and comments.

Rev. Leon Noiel:

One main concern that I have is of course, is it endangering my health? The other question I have is according to the slides, you are saying that you're fencing up the gravel pit because it does contain hazardous materials and that it is dangerous, and it's vei:y close to the residential area, then why is it not dangerous to our health if we're so close to it? Actually when it rains, the water backs up into the residential area and sometimes it lrifts al 1 over the residential area, It's the same water that's in that area that is being fenced up, I don't see how it does not pose a threat to us, and I am very much concerned about that.

Mr. Buynoski:

Let me answer your question in this way. Why is this site hazai:-


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dous, why is it making the NPL and so forth? I told you that we did not feel that there was any immediate threat to any one living in the Carter Subdivision. That is because for you as individuals to be threatened by the chemicals on this site, a couple of things have to occur. One of them is, are there toxic or hazardous materials present? We do have some sampling that Lopez discussed that indicate yes there are hazardous chemicals on this site, The second factor we look into is, is there a population,are there people located in the area that can be exposed? Everyone in this room would probably raise their third hand and say "Yes, I live here, I must be exposed",

The third factor which is just as impoitant as the others is called Pathways. Pathways are the air you breath, the food you eat, what you touch, the water you drink. As we look at this site right now, and like I said there is going to be far more studies on this site, we have to look at the immediate threat. In the neighborhood in which you live, from the sampling we have, we believe no one is being exposed to chemicals that would be immediately hazardous to your health. I am not claiming that tt.e sampling covers every possible alternative but what we know today suggests that the levels of contamination that have been found in the resi~ential areas of the Carter subdivision are not significant in terms of exposure. As David Lopez pointed out, the locations that were used for sampling were those areas that would be more likely contaminated or would more likely show contamination, for the levels found we have to say from a health point of view they ar~ not significant. Why fence the site then, because there is also sample evidence that indicates there are higher levels of contaminations in that particular area, That is the purpose for restricting access. What are we concerned about? Not so much the runoff, but the fact that direct contact might occur. That is not to suggest that anyone who goes out there is going to immediately become sick and die,

We have to approach this way, there is a lot we don't know about chemicals, we have to take a very cautious and very conservative approach on this, that is why, speaking for the Health Authorities again, we would concur that it makes perfectly good sense to post and restrict that area, let's keep peo~le out of there, Let me add a personal note, no matter what kind of fence restriction signs are put around that site, I have kids like you have and yot1 1ve got to help us on this, because if someone wants to get in there they will. As a precaution it is advisable to stay off that property. Does that a11swer your question?

Rev. Leon Noiel

I suppose so, you know more about it then me.

Mr. Buynoski continues:

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The other point again is that as far as we understand, you are on a city water supply, we did not feel that there was a concern with the water you're drinking, there is no evidence of air {invasions/inhalations) at this point, the other point is that sometimes what you smell is not necessarily hazardous, There are a couple of other factors here, It may be that you smell something, however exposure involves other aspects such as how frequently does the air exposure occur, how long have you been exposed, as well as every chemical has different property in terms of how dangerous it is.

Ms. Ellee Abney:

The first meeting I attended here, I was told that that the question I had would be answered in this meeting. So far I have not received the answer to these questions. But before I get to those, I understand what your saying about us being off city water, however r been here since 1967, and I Know that that contamination is not helping our water any, lJ How serious is the problem? 2) What precautions should we take until we get the right answers (results), 3) Is it possible to get a copy of the sampling results? Why can't we have copies of the ftampling results you've taken so far? Can we expect to have at any ti:ne this problem solved?

Why couldn't this investigation been done when Mr. Wiseman(?) began to sell these homes to us? Was it because wasn't no white people here. why? I have a document that I ~hould have brought with me, that evidently you don't have. I don't believe that that water is not contaminated, If you come to my home on 325 Milam Drive, take that little tap off my faucet, and you'll see what I see. No ones greens grow over here. 1-thy? This long term feasibility plan is not going to work for us, we'll be dead before you find out what's out there. I'm scared. I do want you take a sample of my water, because I know it's contaminated, and I'm upset,

Mr. Gazda:

I do appreciate your tolerance and concbrns, I can understand that. I think Mr, Cochren can shed some light as to why these things do take so long, I know that's unfortunate, but these are very difficult complex problems that we have to address. If we could clean it up tomorrow, we would be more than happy to do so, its just a very difficult situation, as are all the sites that we're working on, not only in Texarkana bllt all over our 5-state region. Many will cost millions of dollars to solve. Each one will probably take several years to resolve. Again I know that is unfortunate, but then there's only so many people and money to go around thst we can just try to do the best we can. We are trying to work on the so-called worst sites first,

l.(\


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It does take a lot of study, in some cases it may not have turned out to be as bad as we thought, but we will not know that until ample samples have been taken. I realize that your concerned about what is happening to you in the meantime, but as 11r, Buynoski explained the data that we have in the residential area shows no cause for concern on your heal th and safety, I am not totally sure about what type of sampling has been done with your city water supply, but I feel confident that it is safe water to drink, Relative to the gravel pit area, again as George pointed out, it is not so much that the materials getting off can effect you it's only if somebody should get on that site and dig in some of that material and get it on them. That is why we feel that by putting a fence around it, we can prevent peuple that on purpose or unawaringly get into this material and cause damage to their well being. That is why we'te putting the fence around it, from the information we gathered we feel that that is the best that can be •:lone until we can get additional data.

MS, Ellee Abney:

What your saying is good, however we still don't have a copy of the results, and I still haven't heard the answer to why this investigation did not take place before this community started,

Mr. Gazda:

If we knew about it at that time, our investigation would have taken place then, to my knowledge no one was aware that this area posed a possible treat.

citizen:

One problem that I've had is growing vegetation. My wife has planted a couple of trees but they just will not grow, Before r knew what was going on r tried to raise a garden, but it would not grow. The back yard has grass, but the front yard will not grow grass. The trees we planted just died, I honestly feel that the front is contaminated,

Mr. Buynoski:

One of the questions asked, right before yours sir, was how serious is the problem, There are again, two ways of looking at a site, two things we are concerned about from a health view point. Is there any actual ei:r:,osure occurring? The only way we can document that is to have evidence that there is direct exposnr& or that there is ingestion or inhalation of contaminated materials. We do not have evidence that that is occurring at this po int. Why is the site serious, because the public heal th approach on this again, is a preventative one, and the objective is to deal with the potential for exposure, yes there are


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dangerous materials here, and we now know that for a fact, while something may not be happening at this moment, while something may not have happened for several years, there is that potential,

As health people we can't afford to take that risk, so this site is important and the heal th concerns are important just because of those potentials, Let me be very honest with you, about one of the things you brought up earlier; what about five years ago, ten years ago, our children and so forth. One of the most difficult areas in environmental health, particularly dealing with exposure to chemicals is that we've had chemicals for years and years. We used them, and we use all kinds of products made of chemicals in our homes. But what we do 1,ot have is the total amount of information and knowledge that we would like to have that tells us what the effects of certain exposures happens to be. Just think how many people in this room for years and years smoked and smoked and really did not know that there was an association between smoking and health, but now we know differently. Its the same thing here. One of the problems we have is that we can not document exposure. I can't say that an exposure occurred or that one did not. One of the short comings that we have is that we do not have the technology today, in most cases, to test people and tell us that yes they were exposed ten years ago, or that the illness, or cancer they have was caused by a specific exposure during early childhood. We have good evidence in certain areas, and much of our evidence comes from occupational exposure., Much of the information we use in meetings like this to relate to sites comes from the occupational setting where we have a controlled group of people to work with, such as the workers in the ship yard working with asbestos, So now we have a total overall concern for anyone working with asbestos, or for schools, public buildings, etc. containing asbestos. we do not have a lot of infor1J1ation, it's coming in but I cannot answer questions on past exposure.

Hr. Cochren:

Before the investigation the EPA wil 1 oversee a permanent solution to any problems here. What that will require is a very detail study. The detail study will in turn will take a very long time. A very simple story might be of a man that went to a doctor and said "Oh, I have this pain in my side, will you fix it?" Doctor says, "I can't tell right now, we'll have to send you to the hospital, run some tests, X-rays, and blood analysis." He says "Oh but it hurts, I want to know right now!" Doctor says, "I can't have to send you for more test and more data,"

We have the same situation here, we took a preliminary analysis and things look very good, there are some higher levels here, but in your area things look very good. There is no way we can give you an an,alysis and a permanent solution until we conduct a very


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detailed investigation. That detailed investigation will include bringing drilling rigs out here, it will include specialist of various types, each of those specialist, each of those activities takes time to mobilize, takes time to work, and remember there's a long turn around in the lab, Now we're talking about one or two months just for the lab analysis. The experts in various fields will go over the data and put together the reports and evaluations. Various alternatives against what we find here, then and only then can we tell you what it will take to fix the problems. And the EPA or the potential responsible party will fix those problems. There is no short cut, To give you an idea of what we're talking about, remedial investigation feasibility study, that is the field work, sampling of various types, and then the report which takes a look at the solutions and how well the solutions solve the problems. You can well anticipate some where around 400 or 50~ thousand dollars to do just those two aspects of the study. We're not ignoring you at all. Things are running on schedule right now, various consultants and EPA are working on a work plan, a detailed set of instructions is oeing worked up.

Citizen:

How much input would the community have? lvould the community have any input? I'm concerned, I would like to see the back lots of each of these homes being sampled, which are facing the side of the church. I think there might be a problem where there is top soil, when it rains, there is just oil everywhere.

Mr. Cochren:

What I will do in selecting the areas for sampling is two things, one is that we will take a look at the old aerial photography, there is photography taken of the plant in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s. With this photography it is generally very easy to pick out the most contaminated areas. Where was the plant, where was the pressure vessels, were there any lagoons, waste ditches? We will certainly target that.

For instance, we already know that it appears that the old lagoon was just west of the ~hurch, That area is targeted with various monitoring wells and possibly some trenches to take a look at what is in there.

The other thing we'll look at in placing monitoring wells and selecting water and soil samples is to try to develop a representative picture of the site and zero in on the bad areas and try and fill in the other areas with just some representative samples. I'll be working with Camp Dressor & McKee, who is a contractor in Dallas to try to develop a work plan. But r can assure you that this area just west of the church will be tar-

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geted for a lot of investigation and there will be various samrles taken in the residential area,

I spoke with Sam Wiseman, and Charles Markham, engineer for the subdivision when it was originally put in, and both indicated to me that there was very little or no fill brought in to the residential area and they had a little trouble with the foundations. But basically it was the soil that was here, when the plant was closed. And both of them indicated to me that this site grows grass and trees quite well.

Mr. Buynoski:

I want to make a comment on the sampling program, I've been to quite a few meetings like the one we're having tonight and quite honestly one of the major purposes of a meeting is for input from the people that live in the area, Sometimes yes, evidence does come from someone sitting out there in the audience about a particular condition in their back yard or that they're aware of indicating perhaps the location of contamination, we ask, as health people who are responsible for the human health side of this, to involve ourselves in whatever sampling strategy, or whatever planning goes into laying out where ever samples are being taken. The reason for this of course is that we're ultimately asked what the health risk is. We have to have input into where samples are taken and those samples from our view point are obviously slanted towards sampling that indicate whether people are being exposed or not, whether there's any hazards where people are living. So your concerns are well taken and are in fact very much part of this process.

Citizen:

I want to ask a question, I been living here for forty something years. Oh, I know that there's been contamination since the beginning. I want to know where's the main cylinders, if there was contamination back then then, why isn't it here now? I know one of those cylinders use to set back over there by those houses, but yet you say that there's no danger there now, But Mr, Kinsey says, he's my friend, what I'm saying is how could it be dangerous o•rer there (gravel pit), and not here where the main cylinder was? Now that don't make no kind of sense. And I haven't heard anything tonight that has made much sense about the whole situation, You'll said what you going to do but, you've been saying that all the while, but I thought you had already made some decisions. When are you going to make them? After we all funeralized? If the Koppers had anything to do with it, they should be sued, If the city had any thing to do with it, they should have checked before building these homes, Someone is responsible, and when you take these samples out and look at them, what do we know Jbout all that? I have a boy who's an

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expert in chemistry, but I don't know a bit of it, So it won't do any good to bring him out here, I don't think your doing the community any good at all,

Now you can't tell me that if there was contamination, and the cylinder set right over here that it's still not in the ground,

Mr. Lopez:

Ic I may address at that tonight, and I, I,I, hope that you can understand why we collected samples, Now understand that these samples were collected las~ October are preliminary, we were looking for surface type contamination, of the worst case that we could come up with and I'll be frank with you we biased our samples to try and locate the worst contamination we could see. Now the other thing is, the samples we collected last October were primarily for one purpose and one purpose only. And that was to identify what we would consider an immediate type situation, now I would tend to agree with you that if the cylinder was out there and there's any type of leakage from it, it's probably still under the ground,

Citizen:

Well then why aren't you doing anything about it?

Mr. Lopez:

Okay what we were looking at was an immediate type situation, of direct contact, can you come in contact with the stuff by walking over it?

Citizen:

You can't come in contact with you living on it.

Mr. Lopez:

Our position was if you can't come into contact by walking on the ground, or come into contact by normal type circumstances. Not going in there and say digging a 23 foot well. We looking at the situation from a surface or direct contact type of situation and again I must str&ss our sampling was for a preliminary purpose. The investigation is on-going, and that's where John, and the remedial program will lead. Now we're not saying that contamination is not und&r the ground, or any place else. What we're saying that based on the analysis of the samples we have taken and collected that: there does not appear to be an immediate type situation where a direct type exposure would be encountered.

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06-8501-50 PAGE 14

Mr. Buynoski:

You said that you'd wondered if you had come into contact with it or not. If there were pentachlorophenol for example on the ground and you walked over it, yes in a real sense you've come into contact with it. Your shoes have walked over it, The other points I want to make is, does it get into your body, does it get into your system, how frequently does it get into your body, or for how long a period of time? I mentioned earlier that from a health view point taking a very conservative outlook, yes it does make sense to restrict areas on the site that show higher contamination. In reality, would your children be affected, even if they were playing in it everyday it would not at this point constitute a arodus hazard to them, because the levels are not high enough to be an acutely hazard. Now I have to allow for two things, I can only address sampling information I'm aware of, if there is some location out there that I don't know about, that we don't have any information on, I can't answer for that situation. If someone has evidence that such a situation exist, yes I'm sure that these gentlemen would like to know about it, so that we can deal with it.

Citizen:

Did this contamination get out here into this section?

Mr. Buynoski:

I can't answer that, identified out here facilities.

citizen:

all I can suggest is that what's been seems to be indicative of wood treatment

Don't try to bypass us by saying that its nothing to worry about, because I feel we should know the truth.

Mr. Gazda:

Sir, r assure that if we felt that it was dange~ous to you, we would not withhold it from you. We were sampling in the ar:eas where people were living, playing on the basketball court. we did not find levels out there that we felt were a threat to your health. If we had, you would not be here today, we would see that you were evacuated from the area. This has been done before in several places in the county, and we would do it again, We don't have any information that shows a need for that right now. We would not ignore that or allow you to stay there and be exposed to that type of hazard if we had any information that showed that.


06-8501-50 PAGE 15

Citizen:

1 1111 really concerned like everyone one else is, but I live on the top of where one of those cylinders use to sit and if anybody knovs anything about health it's me, because right now I am being treated for one of the conditions that was mentioned in the paper that this thing can cause. I've been sick for over two years. I've been sitting on top of that thing for eighteen years, You have a yellow monitoring well, across the street right in front of 111y house, and anything north of my house was not black, that was untreated posts. The stuff that was treated within this area, they treated there and then restored them back here, I've seen several wells just recently put here, but the one sitting behind the church has been there forever and a day, so if those conditions that you speak of might appear on this parking lot, then you don't have to dig very far down to find a big pit of cross ties, and old raw creosote, The man, Mr. Sanders with the LA gas company brought a service in here and found a two and three inch timbers covering a ditch or a trench and if you go in there and look, you'll find raw creosote. I might just be one of many but I've been living on this stuff for years, and a man tells me that my kidneys have failed, I have every right in the world to think that I have been contaminated,

Citizen:

Excuse me I would like to say for Brother Steger, I stay right down the street from him, and in my yard it is raw creosote about something like maybe a foot and a half or two feet deep, and I have to continue bringing top soil in, i.n order to grow any kind of grass, I think that since these people out here had so many different operations going on, over this business work area at the time they worked here, that each yard should be sampled, You can't tell exactly what where all the stuff was anyhow, cause every time they did something different here and something different there, My name is James Calicut, I have been affected too, like Brother Steger, with my health, and I believe that is where it comes from,

Citizen:

Do you have any clinics where I can take my kids, or even myself to test for this creosote exposure? If not, do you think it would be a good idea to take my kids to my pri\rate doctor?

Mr. Buynoski:

The way we would approach this is that there's two ways of looking at the possible problem, One of the ways is, what this gentleman just brought up, do you have evidence within an area of a residential community, of illness that might be specifically

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06-8501-50 PAGE 16

related to, exposure to a particular chemical?

I am not disputing what these gentlemen said about their problems with their kidneys, because I am not in a position to diagnose what caused their condition. In many cases, I'm not sure that we even have the technology or the expertise to make that correlation to say yes, this problem is directly related to that particular chemical.

The way that we will have to approach this site is to look at it in this way; 1, are their toxic chemicals present on this site, are those chemicals where the population can be exposed? This is called a health assessment, it does not include at this point, dealing with clinics, or testing children. What it does deal with is the question "Does the site actually constitute an actual threat to people? 0

• For example, if we felt that the water you were drinking was contaminated, obviously that would be a cause for immediate action.

Citizen:

But what I'm asking is would it hurt to see a doctor, in the meanwhile that you are running all these test, and are gathering more information, You know I could be dying of cancer and not even know it.

Mr. Buynoski:

You individually do have that option, however I don't believe that we will be recommending any type of testing or medical evaluation at this point in time.

Citizen:

You said you took samples in some of the residential areas, how did you obtain those samples?

Mr. Lopez:

These were direct surface samples, down to about three inches into the ground. Again, the idea was to find out what was on the surface, and if there was a chance that anyone would come into direct contact with it. That's why the samples were taken the way they were. The same thing was done in the sand gravel area, No sample was taken deeper than inches into the ground,

Citizen:

You say that the people aren't coming into contact with it, well I know for a fact that when the people dig into the ground for


06-8501-50 PAGE 17

gardening purposes, they come into contact wi~h it, because they dig deeper than three inches, The top soil is not that deep.

I don 1t see why your spending 50,000 dollars on a fence, I think someone is playing with federal money. Why can't this money be used to put some of us like myself, that is been sitting on that cylinder for years, in the hospital, to find out if indeed it was the exposure that caused our illnesses?

Citizen:

I have been living here for sixteen years and I could never get grass to grow there, until recently I went and got some chicken manure and finally got me some grass, Now I have a hole that's sinking in my yard, every year I've filled it up, but every year it keeps on sinking, now its a 2 x 4 foot hole in my yard. It's going to swallow my driveway, The city has been contacted but they don't seem to have any answers, Do you?

Mr. Buynoski:

As it stands right now, in terms of immediate threat, there is no testing that my agency is going to recommend. Let me just say something so that you will not feel that you're at the mercy of that bureaucrat who talked to you that night and he's making all these decisions on your life,

I am not a doctor, and I am not trying to determine your medical problems. The way we look at this is a committee of people such as toxicologist, epidemiologist, various experts in various fields will continue to evaluate this situation. Will testing of people ever be done, I can not answer. That might become part of the scenario if in fact evidence begins to surface that exposure has occurred or is occurring. Let me also be very truthful. There may not be the types of testing that you think exist to really answer any of these questions, to document exposure.

Citizen:

we have poor drainage, you said it would be later on that that would be fixed when you put in walls and things. our drainage area, we're locked in here, our property value has gone down. We are citizens paying for something that should never have happened.

Why was this area zoned as a residential area? I'm sure that someone knew about this Koppers Facility before these homes were built. When it rains, we're swamped in. Your answers sound good on paper, and your maps look good, but that doesn't take away the


06-8501-50 PAGE 18

fact that someone owes us some dues. What's the Government going to do about that?

Citizen:

I'm the youngest property owner here and I can't even sell this place. Bow do I deal with that? The media hasn't been very helpful either, every day you see it in the paper.

Other Citizen, cuts in:

Last year, that gas pipe had a leak. I had to have them replace my line. Okay, what about my water? If that creosote is under ground, if it can corrode my gas pipe, it could be seeping into my water pipe also. I haven't worked in ten years, because of my health, I've been drinking that water for nineteen years.

Mr. Buynoski:

A water line is a pressurized system,it means there is pressure in it and if you punch a hole in it, what happens is that it leaks outward, if a water pipe should rupture, you're not likely to get anything into it. It will be forced out by the pressure,

Citizen:

What does it take to get you all to come and get a sample directly out my yard? When are we going to hear from you again?

Mr. Gazda:

As we get additional data from any additional samples we will be getting together with you again. The remedial people will have a meeting down the road, as their program goes on.

Kr. Cochren:

Two types of input, 0ne we will be writing you briefings on information, like the Fact Sheet you got tonight, There will be one at the beginning of the field work and there will also be a copy of the work plan I talked about earlier for you to look at here. There will also be another fact sheet at the beginning of the remedial investigation, a public meeting at the beginning of the feasibility study at which point you will be able to provide written comments. Those comments will be addressed in the record of decision, there will also be a briefing at the end of the record of decision, Finally you have the EPA contact, you will find various at the bottom of the fact sheet.


06-8501-50 PAGE 19

Citizen:

What if we want you to sample in a specific area?

Mr. Cochren

Our sampling program will be set up based on the position of historical aerial evidence of where things were located.

Citizen:

How did the developers get a permit to build and develop homes without EPA finding out about the potential haza.rd? They had to have a zone permit, didn't they? Why did they permit them to use this area as a residential area, knowing that creosote was here?

Mr. Cochren:

Up until fairly recently creosote was a household product. It was not a bad chemical.

The EPA has only been around since about 1970s, This was built in the 1960s. There was no way we could become involved.

Why the permit? I don't know that. I talked to various people who have had the property along the way. They told me that, now this is just what they told me, "When you have an area that is zoned residential, you cannot put an industry on it, however if you have an area zoned industrial, you can do just about anything you want to with it, whether it's putting another industry on it or a couple of houses. I ~o not know if this is true or false.

Again, back then creosote was not considered a hazardous product,

Citizen:

I just do not think this is fair, someone made a killing of us middl• class 9eople.

Mr. Coahren:

We are looking into past owners and what they did, and so is Koppers. Koppers would like to know why a site that they sold as an industrial site turned out to be a subdivision.

Citizens

I don't think you understand what I'm saying, I think someone owes me some dues, Its just not fair that the city permitted this to happen, and we're paying for someone elses mistake,


06-8501-50 PAGE 20

Someone should be sued for the potential hazard they have put us through right now.

Mr. Cochren:

Don't think the issue is dead, I have gone back and talked to various property owners and am still doing so. The way the laws are written, they have certain potential liabilities, I am not saying that they are liable, I'm just saying that they have potential liabilities. That is on-going and there will be more done with that. Koppers is interested in this also, I know this for a fact.

Citizen:

I feel that eve.:yone on this property should be repaid. I feel that someone has been playing russian roulette with our lives.

Mr. Eldrige:

Is there someway to keep the media to stop printing about this and put the fear of God in all of us? The property value has been going down, because of all this bad media.

Other Citizen:

No sir, I want it printed, I want it on National T.V.

Citizen:

I don't think we've gotten anything out of this meeting tonight. Give me three things that you honestly think you have gotten out of this meeting.

Mr. Cochren:

One, that the re's a great deal of public concern, Two, we have people here at this meeting that know where things are located here, Three, (inaudible).

Citizens

Right in back of our home, is this layer of creosote, which is holding a lot of back water, and it back washes into our yards and floods that area. The debris is washed to the gr.ave! pit and then back to our yards. We need better drainage in the meantime. For this reason I know my flowerbed is filled with creosote,

Mr. Gazda:

What you were saying about the paper, we have no control over


06-8501-50 !?AGE 21

what the press prints in the paper, and when we hold a public meeting again, and we will send out a press release, so that the concerned citizen's will know about the meeting and attend if they would like, But as far as what the press writes, we have no control over that,

Mr. Buynoski:

I think that one of the real important points about having meetings like this, is that your source of information is not always what you see on T.V. or read in the paper, This way we can provide information on a more direct basis. My closing comment to that point is that this is about the 20th public meeting that I've attended and you are not alone. What I've heard here has been brought up in every other meeting,

One of the questions raised was "Why didn't someone do something about this?", Its people like yourself in all 50 states, that is why we now have the Superfund Program, and why these issues are being addressed. My last comment is, "Should people not know that I'm living next door to a Superfund site?, this has come up several times. The fact that you have made the superfund list, even though I know that some of you are not exactly too happy about it, you can look at it from the point of view that something is now going to be done about it.

There are other areas in this country,I can tell you, whose neighborhood site or waste pit, has not made the NPL, in that sense they are a little worse off then you are, What could ultimately happen here, that could be beneficial, there is no magic solution but obviously if the site is cleaned up, that will go a long way in restoring faith in the neighborhood, economic values, real estate interest in an area. I know what you're going through, if someone asked me if I would let my kids play in your back yard, based on what I know, I wouldn't stop them. Would I m:>ve out of this neighborhood based on what I know, the answer is no.

How do you go about cleaning up a site?

flr. Cochren:

There are a number of possibilities. One, if the levels are low, then the soils are left. Two, put soil or asphalt over it so that there's no contact with people. Another, most of the creosote, or other compound, degradate with sunshine, they change form and go away. Another solution might be that there is certain types of bacteria that like to eat creosote. Another solution is to dig it up and haul away to a landfill, specially

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96-8501-50 PAGE 22

designed. And then come back with clean earth, Some are just some of the cleanup alternatives,

Short of not knowing what's there, I cannot give you a solution,

Mr. Buynoski:

Let me add to that, if a site is truly a hazard to someones health, then a cleanup will go as far as necessary to eliminate that problem. An entire area could be resoiled, it has even gone as far as having the people physically moved out of the area. If it is determined that your health cannot be protected then the ultimate solution, is relocation. I am not suggesting that this is the case, at this point, I just want you to know that if there were any reason to believe that your health was in jeopardy, there are steps we would take,

Mr. Gazda:

Are there any more questions?

Citizen's:

No.

Mr. Gazda:

Thank you, I really appreciate you coming here, I hope that we were able to bring some light to you, We will obviously stay in touch with you as the program proceeds, and we would like for you to do likewise, If you ha•1e any questions, please do not hesitate to call or write us. There will be additional information as we go along. As David pointed out, sometime next week you should see some fences going up with signs. We do feel that that is a good approach based on what we have, and that it will do somG good as far as the children or unaware people.

Citizen:

What type of fence is it?

Mr. Lopez:

It is barbed wire, square mesh fence, it will stand about 48 inches high, Warning signs will be placed at various points around the perimeter.

MEETING ADJO0R.NED


KOPPERS PUBLIC MEETING ATTENDANCE

Name

Ellee Abney

Willie L. Boyd Teacher

Ed Braddock

Paul Brewer

Bill Britt Reporter

Kenneth Wayne Buchanan

James A. Callicutt

Rosa M. Cheataue

Talmadge H. Cheataue

Henry Etta Childs Red Piner

Joyce Cooper

H. Russell Crider City Manager

Mr. & Mrs, Leroy Davis

Address

325 Milam St. Texarkana, TX 75501

324 Milam St, Texarkana, TX 75501

3105 Crestridge Texarkana, TX 75503

327 Fannin St, Texarkana, TX 75501

P.O. Box 621 Texarkana, TX

318 Fannin St. Texarkana, TX 75501

2026 W. 3rd St. Texarkana, TX 7~501

2031 W, 3rd St, Texarkana, TX 75501


~52 Milam St. Texarkana, Tx 75501

329 Milam st. Texarkana, TX 75501

P.O. Box 1967 Texarkana, TX


Mr. & Mrs. Sammie Davis, Jr. 319 Fannin Texarkana, TX 75501

Hermon Dibrell Trustee

Lucille Draper Citizen

342 Findley St. Texarkana, TX 755g1

2321 w. 4th St. Texarkana, TX 75501

1

Representing

City of Texarkana

Mt, Zi0n Baptist Chur

I I Winford Cann, Jr.

Attorney

I Mrs. Gladys N. Fields Housewife

I J.E. Fields Homeowner

I Joe Frost City Council

I Gursie M, Gilmore

I Patricia Page Gray

Luther & Hazel Groce I Teachers

Lawrence Hatley

I Louise Hicks

I Eddie H. Hunter

I Rudolph J, Jaeger Consulting Toxicologist

I Lynda James

I Lula Jones Housewife

I Bruce Kennedy Sand & Gravel Co.

I Ken Lackner Rr7orter

I Louise Lewis

I Gregory A. Mccurry

I Rev. Rufus A. McC11x:ry Pastor

I

Suite 6, State Line Plaza Texarkana, TX 75502

2027 w. 3rd St. Texarkana, TX 75501

2027 w. 3rd St. Texarkana, TX 75501

2 Knights Bridge Rd. Texarkana, TX 75503

2037 Travis St. Texarkana, TX 75501

303 Fannin Texarkana, TX 75501

309 Milam Texarkana, TX 75501

2045 Travis Texarkana, TX 75501

326 Fannin Texarkana, TX 75501

313 Milam Texarkana, TX 75501

403 Nelson Ave. Cliffside Park, NJ 07010


349 Milam st. Texarkana, TX 75501

1211 Canadian Texarkana, TX

1021 College Texarkana, TX

2062 Travis Texarkana, TX 75501

2022 W. 3rd St, Texarkana, TX 75501

2022 w. 3rd st. Texarkana, TX 75501

Carver Terrace

Home

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Koppers Co, & Environmental Research & Techr logy, Concord, MA

Koppers

Polly Chapel Baptist Church


Johnie McGhee, Jr, Minister

Arthur P. Nelson Councilman

Earlene Noiel

Rev. Leon Noiel

Robert O'Gara Public Relations

Patsy R. Oliver L,V,N, Student

Jesse L.F. Pace

Mrs. Jesse Pace

John A, Quagliott Manager Hydrogeology

Burnice Ray

Mr. & Mrs. John J, Riley

Elridge Robertson

Janis Sandlin City Councilwoman

Billy L. Shears

M.F. Shears

2009 W, 3rd St. Texarkana, TX 75501

2500 W. 12th Texarkana, TX 75501

345 "iilam St, Texarkana, TX 75501


1900 Koppers Bldg, Pittsburgh, PA 15219

357 Milam St, Texarkana, TX

1923 W. 3rd St. Texarkana, TX 75501


440 College Park Dr. Monroeville, PA 15146

2034 Travis St. Texarkana, TX 75501


2010 W, 3rd St. Texarkana, TX 75502

3rd & Texas Texarkana, TX 75501



Mr.& Mrs, Emmit B, Smith, Sr,304 Milam St, Texarkana, TX 75501

Jeter D. Steger, Jr. Chairman Deacons

Robert M. Taylor

2015 West 3rd St, Texarkana, TX 75592

1719 Breckenridge •rexarkana, TX

Horne

City Council

Koppers

Self & family

Texarkana Black Chamber of Commerce

Himself

11 !

jl 'I

I I I I I I ii I I I I I I I I I

s. Michael Tymiar Program Manager

Mr. & Mrs. Calvin L. Vaughn

Ms, Levarne Williams

Velva Williams

John w. Witherspoon Hydrologist

Odis J. Young

Zella c. Young

1940 Koppers Bldg, Pittsburgh, PA 15219

2011 W, 3rd, Texarkana, TX 75501

2019 W. 3rd, Texarkana, TX 75501

523 Nettie st. Texarkana, TX 75501

2807 Hwy. 42 North Kilgore, TX 75662



4

Koppers

TDWR, District 5

Resident

Resident

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