interview with frater e.s

7/27/2019 Interview with Frater E.S.

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An Interview with Frater E.S.Originally Conducted during October, 2013

Note: The original interviewer initials and their questions have beenchanged in order to differentiate from a postponed article for a

service that will not be named. It is presented here for associates andall those curious about the subjects mentioned.


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1) From your point of view, what is the DKMU, howdid it get started, what was the significance of the

ChelseaRitualandhow did youbecome involved?ES:First, as to what the DKMU is: a loose collective of

DIY magicians with, as Frater Isla put it, "some heavy nods

toChaos Magic and Discordianism", as a bare minimum ofexplanation. Looking back, I just sort of fell into it by

happenstance. I've never been one for hierarchical groups

or what they call circle-jerking today -everyone being onthe same wavelength by some reinforced dogma. That's not

what this is. By the averse, I've always known the function

and purpose of groups in general, which is any collective

under some sort of header or even vague modus operandi,

however amorphous and allowing it might be.When you have a lot of people with some itch, some

calling, even if they don't know what it really means, thoseare the types that end up making some waves -some realnoticeable ripples on the pond. Surely, _______is one ofthese as well. There is nothing much which subjugates the

individual in these types of formations (unless an individual

idealizes what he construes as a dogma therein, but this is

his own problem and lust for such a thing), nothing

demanding people to all think or act a certain way.

I equate collectives like that to open-mic night at a

poetry house. Poetry is obviously the goal in one form or

another, but what type of poetry, and what style, that's a

surprise. The DKMU is like that, with a more occult and

mystery-oriented slant to it. That's just where our

backgrounds fall at, and most of us want to keep exploring

those types of mysteries by any means necessary, withwhatever is novel and might really work. And a lot of

things tend to work with the right style of thinking, which


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is likely completely different from my own style of non-

ordinary (magickal)thinking, depending who you are.So, I sort of stumbled through the DKMU portal, and it

wasn't even the DKMU back then - it was the MarauderUnderground (the "MU" in DKMU.) This happened to come

at the perfect time, even though I was no more but a

lurkerand lone wolf, because for two or three years priorI was really doubting if there was anything to all of this

magick business, you know? Some piece of the puzzle was

still eluding me, which means to say, some crucial aspect of

my own personal style of magickalthinking was not yet inplace -at least not how I intuitively felt I needed it to be.

Luckily, the initiation I required was catalyzed in 2004

at the same time the Linking Sigil was developed. I

attended a four months artists retreat and met a person

whom I would entangle with. Two years later, we weresharing an apartment in Brooklyn. As for this time, I used

to be fairly outspoken about it, suffice to say that it

entailed connection and employment at a dominatrix

dungeon in Manhattan. Anything you could imagine

happening here probably fits the real bill. The clients were

quite a trip, and this gave me a good scientific vantage

point into the depraved and psychosomatic nature of

mankind, this constant lust for the internal world to be

made external. Lawyers, Wall Street types, upstanding

businessmen, you name it - everybody had some sort offantasy. Some of them were happily (or so they said)

married, though couldn't share this one thing with their

spouses or families, so took to the underworld to fulfill the

wish. It was the girls job to help them create it -so, theywere like witches or magicians in a sense; the doorway toanother world. Though I hadn't performed the acts, I had


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seemed almost mathematical in their precision. Sheosyrath

began writing "Occultus Conturbo", we titled the project to

invigorate the Chaos current "Domus Kaotica" (the House ofKhaos), gathered a few Marauders (those of the previous

Marauder Underground), used the Linking Sigil to create a

totemic sigil called "663" or "Doombringer" which would

reinvigorate the current by death & rebirth, then went

about selecting or positioning those who chose to

participate into a reverse triangle formation that stretched

across the United States. I would perform my part atop theChelsea hotel in Manhattan, Sheosyrath in Texas, Damien

Horizonstar in Maryland and Karma Mitchell in California.This shape was seen as the primordial waters, and the

lightning bolt, whatever it was, which struck life into

lifeless fluid. It was to be a fairly large undertaking, as

magick goes. A brief but not 100% conclusive account of

this ritual is still published. It may be found in either"Occultus Conturbo" or "The Assault on Reality: A Field

Manual for the Strange Psyche", or elsewhere as a singular

document. The result seemed to be answered by the

creation (or re-invigoration, as we intended) of a currentcalled 156/663.

As I later found out, the 156 current was previously

cracked open by one Joel Biroco in the 80s, whose work

formed an alternative take on the Chaos current to that

promulgated by the IOT. Due to the IOT flourishingin theUSA with the publication of Pete Carroll's books, while

Biroco's KAOS fell into silence, this aspect of chaos was

little known in the States until the sudden return of Biroco

and the publication of KAOS 14 in 2002. This work goes

into great detail about the KAOS-BABALON 156 current,

described earlier in the late 80s, and which is an


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undermining of Thelema, subsuming it into chaos. It has

become clear that during the heyday of the current in the

UK in the 80s Biroco's KAOS was a formative influence andheld a far more radical stance than that put across by the

IOT, of which it was a critic. I continue to speak with Joel

occasionally for the unique viewpoints he offers, which I am

entirely grateful for. (biroco.com)So, the Chelsea was a working of "whatever may

come", at its heart. Any semblance of cognitive structure

was abandoned in the act of exposing the mind to a variety

of psychedelic agents which served the purpose of

amorphous gateway. July 17th of 2007 marked thesignature of the current -whatever might well up from thesubconscious and beyond, and for how ever many years or

cycles, this would be our exploration. The collective winds

and waters would decide on the face of whatever catalyst

or territory revealed itself, even if it meant "going beyondKhaos", as it were. Indeed, the individual might have his

particular structure, and any number of them -to declareunto the many that "structure is prohibited" or that

anything is prohibited, such is the way of dogma. What

works for one or even a majority does not make up the

manifesto, which is a thing written in invisible ink, and

with letters that shift in the light. The Sutra of the PoisonBuddha is a good analogy, here.

With this re-lighting of the fire completed, somemarauders began to send out the word that the project had

evolved. This is where the combined name "DKMU" comes

from, which is now recognized as the formal title of the

experimentation. With this completed also, I myself became

entangled within the newborn current to an at firstalarming degree. It had become very successful, for one, as


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far as grassroots formations like this go. Sooner or later, a

great portion of the occult community had come to know

of the Linking Sigil, or DKMU, or both, in one way oranother. This was still mostly as a fringe curiosity, and this

was blown up by some to mean "they are Khaos criminals,

drug users, hackers, black magicians, graffiti artists", in

other words, "stay away from them." This only served, as

it always does, tocause ever more fascination.However still learning and still evolving myself, after

some time a variety of members had begun to treat me as

the voice of the current, which, to my mind, was an insult

to the purpose of it. To accept a singular voice is to deny

your own unique voice, to accept a singular leader-figure is

to deny your own ability to be said leader. To want a

leader, in any sense, is to deny the flow which doesn't

respond to these figures in the first place. I began todetectthis at around the period just before I moved to NewJersey with someone I would lock hearts with for a time.To make it brief: this New Jersey house would later serve

as a real-time gathering place for DKMU associates across

the country, and some who flew in from other countries as

well, though as a note here, some meetings were held in

different states. A large number of heightened rituals and

occult experiences were held in all of these locations, someof which defy any rational explanation.

(I would call this the phenomenon of Magickal Relativity,

as it appears that when others with related expectations

interact over a period of time, the shared reality by result

may take upon itself an ever increasing malleability,

relative to what is allowed bythe collection of minds. Thismight be labelled merely subjective, if it were not for somecontamination seen to bleed into the experiences of


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disconnected persons in the immediate environment, andina wholly objective sense!)

From 2007-2010, the DKMU would continue to plunge

the depths of whatever subject was blown into its

immediate viewpoint. Work with the Linking Sigil (a

massive, global spell in essence) continued with exponential

growth, the delving of archetypes given modern masks

meant to connect varieties of the related semiotic form(godforms) was explored and continues, novel path-

working, eclectic combination, theories on consciousness

and magick, examinations of Spare's "Neither-Neither",

media magick, digital and cyber magick, even post-Chaos

magic... though a sort of degradation or collapse was had in

2010-2011, and for whatever reason. As of today, we might

call it the birth-pangs of whatever would come next. If the

DKMU were a deck of cards which attempted to order

itself, that period was like the whole deck being flung inthe air during a hurricane.

Yet, the experiment continues. Although I will not be

with it forever, and my time is drawing near, it is one of

the most freeing, ecstatic and even, dare I say, jovial

experiments on the long road of the esoteric progressionthat I have yet been involved in. The face of the future has

yet to be pulled, though I am ever grateful to have had

those strange winds push me into it, for whatever I'm

worth to it (or what it has been worth to me), for

whatever I might have assisted it with (for whatever it

might have assisted me with.) I once yearned for that

missing puzzle piece, I wouldn't have imagined it would be

snapped into place with a changeling shape which might

become anything I wanted it to be. As it stands, that isentirely the secret I hadn't grasped in the early years. The


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DKMU might have given it, though it is wholly mine to use

as I see fit. Magick was not to be found in dusty books, and

much less the ones with shinier covers. These may presentsome fleeting idea or taunt, or tease, and if that's what you

need, all the power to you. Crowley, Spare, Carroll,

Sherwin, Hine, Mckenna, Anton Wilson, Bey, Biroco,

Nameless, and so on, get what I'm saying? Eventually, it

must be lived and enacted, if you feel that call. Maybe you

don't, but if it puts you there anyway, then that's what you

needed from it. One does not merely read the story, onebecomes the story. If the story no longer serves you,

always feel free to kill off your own character.2) What are your thoughts on magick, and how do

yougenerallyapproachit?ES:I've always been one of those types of practitioners

who dontput much space between "media / the medium"

and "magick." Whether its a sigil created, a seal drawn,information read and applied or information written to

cause a change in perspective (in myself or others), a

painting, a graphic, a video, a song, graffiti on a wall, a

cognitive connection between seemingly unrelated forms,your "identity", spoken word, even emotions or physical

actions; anger, annoyance, elation, exercise, yoga,

meditation, whatever. All of these things, states, thoughts,

practices or actions, they're all mediums and conduits for

intent (or Will, if you prefer.) Some of them work better

than others, depending on the nature of the intent. Aside

from that, there aren't many rules. Simple guidelines,

perhaps, and even those can be discarded in favor of

whatever the muse might be gravitating towards at any

given moment.


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So, I tend to treat these endeavors as a mixed-media

canvas. This approach has worked in chasing off multiple

forms of restriction and bias, although restriction utilized inan artistic sense might result in unexpected feats of

creation, all the same. So long as that restriction is being

used as an artistic tool in much the same way a band will

limit their options in order to fine-tune a unique sound forthe next album, and not something assumed or debilitating,

yeah, even restriction can be a helpful tool whenever that

certain color is wanted. If reality (and consciousness) can beequated to your canvas, anything imaginable can be

equated to the colors you have available. The largest,

wildest palette any artist could want is always ever at our

immediate disposal, formally called "the fucking Universe",

or "God" by some, particularly if they have a dirty mouth.

It's just information, information that can be used, abused,

linked together, bent and warped into different shapes.That information becomes a conduit for intent when the

shape you're after reflects that intent. Organic matter can

take a lot of different forms, but if someone cannot speak,

say they're missing a tongue or larynx for example; theonly device that will do the job in any adequate sense will

be something that takes the form of and functions as a

tongue or larynx. Magick is a lot like that, but so iseverything else. Whether that particular shape is created

by the laws of physics, natural evolution, artistry or

engineering, it's all the same game - form and function;function and form. Literal formlessness might have been the

trend before the creation of the Universe, but it's an

aesthetic that's largely gone out of style. Hell, even black

holeshave a peculiar form and function about them. Theyappear to play a role in galaxy formation, as an example.

Whatever shapesthe information assumes it will essentially


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be composed of the same "stuff" it always was - justanother variation in the existential gallery.

Now, as conscious human beings, we have a terrific

opportunity at hand to peek behind the veil and get to

know that information face to face, in whatever form it

takes. The scientific method is a great way of doing this,

psychology is another, philosophy, religion, shamanism,

mysticism and magick are all others still. All of these

disciplinary locations deal cards with the types of

information they are best equipped to deal cards with,

some are better tools for different sorts of information and

the interpretations of that information, and they all overlap

to some degree at the foundation. The experiences and

interpretations derived from the language and style used

by one may not make much sense in the language and style

used by another. Some deal with external data as it exists

unto itself, for example, and others deal with the qualia-

the subjective experience an individual might receive, or his

personal relationship to a set of data.

No matter the area of specialization, we're dealing with

all of these experiential layers at the same time in one way

or another, and dependent on our viewpoints, or what

Robert Anton Wilson called "reality tunnels." Given that,

there's no need to insulate ourselves into any singular one.

It is completely possible in this day and age to become

multidisciplinary and multilingual when dealing with a

variety of ways to approach, interact and "have fun" with

existence. We might, as contemporary citizens entertain a

scope which seeks to include the many instead of singling

out a one. Indeed, there is no pressing need but for self-

satisfaction to triumph any one viewpoint above another,unless that viewpoint is being actively used to cheat,


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beguile, swindle or otherwise cause some measurable,

objective harm to an individual or collective. Aside from

that, which is certainly a problem on a case by case basis,we don't need a Belief Police running around. The best

way to actively learn is to arrive at a conclusion on your

own and by your own efforts, not have it mandated by a

majority, whether that's the Catholic Church, the Golden

Dawn or even the Illuminates of Thanateros! Keep on your

toes, stay sharp. Be open minded, but also be the perpetual

skeptic. Try and think in less black and white terms,because you'll need those shades of grey to make sense of

a complex existence. A Latin maxim goes, "de gustibus non

disputandum", or, "In matters of taste, there can be no

disputes". I would however make an addition, "Unless it

tastes like cyanide where you were promised chocolate

pudding!" I thinkthat's a good note to end on.Travel often.- Fra. E.S.

DTTI : HTNF

interview with frater e.s

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