julie matthews fermented foods and probiotics for anxiety ... · potentially getting all of these...

Julie Matthews - Fermented foods and probiotics for anxiety and depression www.theAnxietySummit.com November 3-16, 2014

© 2014 Trudy Scott All Rights Reserved of 29

Fermented Foods and Probiotics for Anxiety and

Depression: The Practical and the Research

• Types of fermentations • Health benefits of probiotics and fermentations • Research on probiotics and anxiety/depression/brain health/autism • Probiotic supplements • Prebiotics and why some people can’t use them • Who might have trouble with fermented foods and why • Steps and tips on making fermented foods and beverages

Trudy Scott: A very big welcome to The Anxiety Summit, Season 2. This is

your host, Trudy Scott. I'm a certified nutritionist and food mood expert and author of The Antianxiety Food Solution. And today I'm interviewing Julie Matthews, certified nutrition consultant, and our topic is “Fermented Foods and Probiotics for Anxiety and Depression: The Practical and the Research.” A very big welcome Julie. It's great to have you here.

Julie Matthews: Thanks, Trudy. I'm really glad to be here. Trudy Scott: It's really nice to have you back on Season 2. If any one of you are

listening who tuned in to Season 1, you'll remember Julie's fabulous talk – “Bioindividual Nutrition for Anxiety: How Special Diets and Avoiding Certain Foods Can Support Individuals with Anxiety.” It was so popular and Julie is such a wealth of knowledge that I decided to invite her back for a totally new topic



and this is going to be fermented foods. Julie is amazing how she does this great job of meshing the practical with the research. So you're in for a real treat today. Let me read your bio, and then we'll get started.

Julie Matthews is a certified nutrition consultant specializing in

autism spectrum disorders, ADHD, and nutrition for pregnancy. Her approach is based on the BioIndividual Nutrition needs of each person. She provides dietary guidance based on scientific research and applied clinical experience. Her award winning book, Nourishing Hope for Autism, has helped people around the world to make food and nutrition choices that aid the health, learning, and behavior of those with autism, ADHD, and other developmental delays.

She presents at leading autism conferences in the U.S. and abroad

and is the nutrition editor of the Autism File magazine. She's also on the scientific advisory board for the U.S. Autism & Asperger Association and the Autism Nutrition Research Center. She's co-founder of Nourishing Hope and BioIndividual Nutrition Institute. Julie has a private nutrition practice in San Francisco, California, and supports families and clinicians from around the world with her nutrition learning tools and professional training courses. You can visit NourishingHope.com and BioIndividualNutrition.com.

What I'd like to do is just read a short section from an abstract that

was published this year and the co-author is actually Dr. Ted Dinan, who created this term called "psychobiotics" when he was talking about the beneficial effects that probiotics can actually have when it comes to mood. And what this paper says is that "there is increasing evidence that host-microbe interactions play a key role in maintaining homeostasis. Alterations in gut microbial composition is associated with marked changes in behaviors relevant to mood, pain and cognition, establishing the critical importance of the bi-directional pathway of communication between the microbiota and the brain in health and disease. Dysfunction of the microbiome-brain-gut axis has been implicated in stress-related disorders such as depression, anxiety and irritable bowel syndrome and neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism." And you'll notice that this mentioned anxiety and depression and autism, and Julie's expertise is in nutrition for autism, but we're finding that there are many factors that play a role in autism and also play a role in anxiety and depression.



And I just want to share that what she covers in her wonderful book Nourishing Hope for Autism, her programs, her Cooking to Heal DVD have a much broader application than only autism. And of course, the BioIndividual Nutrition Institute is just that. It's teaching you how to address each person's unique biochemistry with food and nutrients. So this is just one of 50 papers on probiotics, the microbiome. And for the connection between the microbiome and anxiety, we found 14 papers just published this year. So it's clearly an important topic and I know Julie is going to share some more research as we go through all of this. So let's get started with our interview. “Fermented Foods and Probiotics for Anxiety and Depression: The Practical and the Research.”

Let's get started with what fermentation is and what are the different types of fermented foods and beverages that we would see out there. Julie.

Julie Matthews: Sure. So there are a number of different types of ferments. So

there are ferments where good bacteria ferments grains and make things like bread and sour dough breads and things like that. For the purpose of our conversation today, we're going to talk about live Lactobacillus and other types of ferment that are going to help colonize the good bacteria in our guts. And so when we're talking about those types of ferments, those are things like raw sauerkraut, different types of yogurt. The most common one that people are familiar with is yogurt. Yogurt is going to have Lactobacillus acidophilus and a variety of other good probiotics that we need, and so that's the one that most people are most familiar with.

Now, many of the strains that are on the market today are

pasteurized and don't actually contain live strains, but you can find them and that is actually how they are originally and specifically made is by the culturing of the milk with a variety of different strains of good bacteria. There are also different types of beverages – kombucha, kefir, and things like that as well.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. So if someone had an issue with dairy, then they

could choose a non-dairy option? Julie Matthews: Absolutely. And that's a lot of what I do because a lot of people

that I work with don't tolerate dairy. Trudy Scott: Okay. And then I wanted to just make some clarification here

because you can go and buy yogurt in the store and it may sound like it's good, but it's not really going to be that great. So what do we need to look for if we are buying yogurt in the store?



Julie Matthews: Well, you're going to want to look for something that typically

says "live cultures." And that's typically for a yogurt, that's usually what is going to be on the label. For something like a sauerkraut, you might look for something that either says "raw," "unpasteurized," "live cultures," something like that.

Trudy Scott: Okay. And then the other thing with yogurt is that a lot of yogurts

are loaded up with sugar and we wouldn't want to be getting something that is high in sugar and certainly not something that's low-fat.

Julie Matthews: Right, exactly. So we want to be careful of that – in fact, even

today, sad to say you have to be careful about the artificial additives. That might be the artificial colors or flavors or sweeteners or things like that. So unfortunately, you really do want to read the labels and you want to look for something that's all natural and is going to be in its natural state.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. Or make your own, and we're going to be talking

about some of that towards the end of the call. So ferments are going to be a great option. So let's get right into the benefits of good bacteria and probiotics. Why do we want to incorporate this into our diets?

Julie Matthews: Well, so as you mentioned, these fermented foods contain live

probiotics and that's one of the main benefits. It also helps to break down our food so it's more easily digestible, but along with that, we want all the benefits that the good bacteria are going to supply as we consume that and colonize our intestinal system. So there are many types of important functions that they play. So everything from health in keeping our bowels moving so that we are able to have nice regulated bowel movements to making sure that they are making certain vitamins that we need: B vitamins, vitamin K, things like that. They actually help to break down environmental toxins and other things that we might be exposed to.

They produce a variety of antibiotic, antifungal properties. They

help us to digest and break down our nutrients so we could have better access to them. They're really important for our immune system. They're important for intestinal health, and there are dozens – well, probably hundreds of different functions that this good bacteria plays in our body. And actually, that's why it's so essential. In fact, if you think about it, one of the first things on this planet was bacteria. So we, as humans, evolved synergistically in an environment that was filled with bacteria, and



these bacteria actually are very vital to our actual existence. And so they actually help us to be healthy, and without them, we wouldn't be.

Trudy Scott: Great. So we're talking about the good bacteria, that we might

have in some of these fermented foods, and then we also are possibly talking about probiotic supplements. I know we're going to go into probiotics a little bit later, but whether we're getting it from food or whether we're getting it from supplements, we're potentially getting all of these benefits.

Julie Matthews: Yes, yes. There are different benefits to different ones, I think.

But in the reality, it's the probiotics themselves and so there are people that do supplements and there are people that eat it in a fermented food form and they actually have different benefits, but they all are beneficial.

Trudy Scott: Great. And I know you've got this lovely nourishing whole food

pyramid, and fermented foods are a big part of that. Julie Matthews: Absolutely. So I have a food pyramid that I created because I don't

work with just one diet. I work with a variety of different diets. So when we're looking at the different diets, I try to figure out well, what is really the foundation of all of it? So I have a nourishing whole food pyramid that kind of helps you apply good food and nutrition and nutrient-dense foods to any different special diet that you might be on. So at the very bottom of my pyramid are a variety of different foundational principles that help to make the foods more nutrient-dense and more digestible and to make us healthier. And so one of those principles is fermentation.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. And I wanted to clarify that this food pyramid is very

different from other food pyramids that we know about. Julie Matthews: Absolutely. So it's actually almost opposite of it. It really sort of

turns the normal food pyramid we think of kind of upside down and instead of having a large number of servings of grain products and often gluten grain products, it has no gluten and the grains are at the smallest portion of the pyramid itself, if someone is going to consume them at all.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. And give me some examples of things that we might

see at the bottom of the pyramid, meaning, we want to eat more of those.



Julie Matthews: So for me, the foundation of the pyramid are good quality, non-starchy vegetables and good quality protein and typically that protein includes animal protein as a foundation because animal protein is going to have all the essential amino acids and a whole bunch of good fatty acids and fat-soluble vitamins and things that we really need for good health. So to me, that sets up a kind of core or the foundation of the pyramid.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. Thanks for clarifying that. Now, other things that we

need to think about when it comes to gut health is yeast and then possibly an overgrowth of bad bacteria or parasites. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Julie Matthews: Yes. So we need that good bacteria for our health and it does

many good things. One of the things that I didn't even really mention was that that good bacteria can also help with sending signals to the brain and helping us with good mood. Well, the opposite is true for pathogens. Pathogens can cause disease. They can cause us to have nutrient imbalances. They can affect health of the gut and the absorption of nutrients.

And they actually can create a variety of mood types of conditions:

anxiety, depression, and foggy thinking. Even there's a condition called PANDAS, which is a reaction, sort of an autoimmune reaction to certain strep strains, and one of the pretty well-known symptoms of that is OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder). So we see how a variety of different pathogens can actually not only harm us physically, but can also harm us with mood and our mental function as well.

Trudy Scott: Great. So if we've got this imbalance and we don't have the good

flora, then we can have an overgrowth of the yeast, or we can have parasites getting out of control or some of the bad bacteria getting out of control causing inflammation, affecting digestion, and absorption. And we need to really go back to basics and say that a lot of health problems begin in the gut and this is a really big area that we need to focus on.

Julie Matthews: Absolutely. Very much. It's important to look at the whole

microbiome and how it all comes together and to look at all the different factors that would be at play for our health.

Trudy Scott: So when it comes to looking at probiotics and mood, for both

anxiety and depression, there is so much research supporting this. It's an emerging area of research. We're just seeing more and more and more research. I mentioned Dr. Ted or Timothy Dinan and



he's a researcher from Ireland. He's just doing so much research and you got some great studies to share on this connection between good bacteria and mood and some other factors that affect us when it comes to mood problems. So can we start talking about some of those?

Julie Matthews: Absolutely. And you said there were well over – well, gosh,

there's papers coming out every day and every year on this subject and so I just picked out a few that I thought would highlight some of this for us. There was a paper that came out 2013 in Trends In Neurosciences, and that was by a team including James Foster and the title of it says it all really, which is "Gut-Brain Access: How the Microbiome Influences Anxiety and Depression." And so it really talks a lot about that connection. And so that's a really good study for people to look at if they want to get a better sense of how this can influence anxiety and depression. And then there was a really interesting study that they did in 2010 on the effects of probiotics, particularly Bifidobacterium infantis, in the maternal separation model of depression – and this was a really interesting study done and it was in Neuroscience and it was by a researcher named Desbonnet, I think.

I'm not exactly sure the pronunciation of their name, but it was a

mouse study and it was a little sad actually. So the mice were separated from their mom and they were asked to do this sort of swimming, like swimming against their will, I guess. So they were looking at the stress response of all of this and whether they got sort of depressed or whether they got motivated to swim during the state of stress that they were in. The one group of mice were given this particular bacteria that's typically found in infants, which is this Bifidobacterium infantis and found that the probiotic – the ones that received the probiotic had normalization of their immune response.

They had reversal of some of the behavioral deficits that some of

the other mice had. They had restoration of the noradrenaline concentration in their brainstem. And they had increased motivation in the face of all of this. So I thought that was another really interesting study showing the importance of these probiotics when we're in various states of stress. There was another study that was also done in that kind of state of stress and it was looking at human subjects under academic stress and the effects of fermented yogurt particularly Lactobacillus casei, which is a culture found in yogurt and it was done in the European Journal of Nutrition in 2004 by a researcher named Marcos and their team.



And so they found that the fermented yogurt was able to modulate the immune effects in the subjects that were under stress.

So a combination of when we're under stress, our immune system

goes down or it can, and we get certain markers that show up. And so with the yogurt, even when they were under the state of stress, their immune system stayed stable rather than having the negative effects of it. So we're seeing a lot of good. We all know that stress can have profound impact on our mental state and our adrenals and our functions and our immune system, and it can not only affect our health, but also our mental state, too. Inflammation is really at the core of depression and some of these conditions as well. So I thought that was a very interesting study.

Trudy Scott: Very good. And that's wonderful that it was a human study and it

was looking at yogurt. I actually came across another study when I was getting ready for this and this was a study done in Japan and it was – what was the paper? I don't have the actual paper, but we'll make sure that we share all of these on the blog and on the replay page. But this particular study was looking at pregnant Japanese women and they found that a higher intake of yogurt and calcium were independently related to lower prevalence of depressive symptoms during pregnancy. So again, we're seeing how food with these good bacteria can actually make a difference.

Julie Matthews: Absolutely. There was a study done by a researcher named

Tillisch and she did a study that she published in 2013 in Gastroenterology, and we know a lot about how, of course, the brain sends signals to the gut, but she was explaining that in the study they learned that the gut also sends signals to the brain and the researchers found that with yogurt, they found positive effects in many areas of the brain including sensory processing and those associated with emotion and mood and things like that. So there are a lot of really great studies on anxiety, depression, and moods, stress, all of that. And I thought I would throw in just a couple studies on autism because I think it's really important to see how important this gut is and people with autism have anxiety and depression and they often have a whole host of other neurological challenges.

So there are a number of studies that show things like children with

autism have different beneficial bacteria and different strains of pathogens that don't show up in other places. So Jim Adams did a study in BMC Gastroenterology in 2011 and found that not only do children with autism have much lower levels of Bifidobacterium, their gastrointestinal symptoms were strongly correlated with the



severity of their autism. So the more gastrointestinal symptoms they had, the greater severity of autism that they had. And there are a number of other studies showing that as well, you know, studies showing that diarrhea and colitis, along with a whole host of other medical diagnoses of asthma and eczema and all sorts of things, are present in people with autism.

So autism is not just a brain condition. It's really a whole body

condition where there are many ways that the body is dealing with either inflammation or problems and very specifically how, when they had increased gastrointestinal symptoms, the ones that had the worst gastrointestinal symptoms had the worst symptoms of autism. And that we know a lot about, like I said, that they have different strains of pathogenic bacteria that don't show up in the population at large and much lower levels of good bacteria. So I just thought that that was interesting to throw in for those people that are out there that are kind of curious about other ways that people might be affected by their microbiome, in terms of their cognitive function, their behavior, and mood as well.

Trudy Scott: Really great. And I'm glad you did that because that's your area of

expertise, and as you said earlier, there's a lot of overlap between causes of autism and causes of anxiety and depression. And everyone is unique, so different things may affect different people in different ways.

Julie Matthews: Absolutely. Trudy Scott: And then I've got one more that I wanted to throw out there. As

you can hear, there's a lot of research in this area, which is really, really exciting. This is an older paper. It was actually published in 2009 by Rao and his colleagues and they looked at people with chronic fatigue syndrome. So here, we've got another condition other than anxiety and depression and autism. And they found that this imbalance in intestinal bacteria supports this brain mood connection. And then those treated with probiotics not only had a greater number of beneficial bacteria, but they also had a significant decrease in anxiety and depression. So we are seeing more and more and it's pretty exciting. It really is exciting. And we certainly appreciate all the research because we know how beneficial these foods are, but seeing this research supporting it is really, really exciting, isn't it?

Julie Matthews: Absolutely, it's very important. Trudy Scott: You and I, we like the research part.



Julie Matthews: Yes, yes, I think it's important. I mean, we see things in clinical

practice and you hear parents and individuals online talking a lot about it. And to me, that is a level of important evidence that we need to gather, but it's also important to have the scientific evidence as well because we can look at things much more specifically that way and make new connections and important discoveries.

Trudy Scott: Absolutely, yes. Are we ready to talk about probiotic

supplements? Julie Matthews: Sure. Let's do that. Trudy Scott: Okay. Julie Matthews: There are a lot of different types of probiotics. And I thought

maybe as we get into it, I actually just came across a bunch of research on a particular brand of probiotics. There are a lot of brands. There are a lot of really good ones, but I found a few studies on a probiotic called VSL#3. Again, not every probiotic is right for every person and I'm not here to plug a particular one, but I literally just came across several of them today and one of them was talking about how this probiotic was used to modulate the intestinal microbiota of elderly people or conditions associated with brain gene expression and ameliorating the age-related deficits in a neural function. And so it's another good study that shows us how our microbiome is going to relate to our brain's function.

Some of the other studies I mentioned were on yogurt or other

fermentations. This one was actually on probiotics or a particular type of probiotic. And then what's also interesting in the last summit that you did where I spoke about BioIndividual diets and I spoke quite a bit about oxalates and the low oxalate diet, which is an area that I specialize in and I find really fascinating, this actual specific probiotic was used to help with a variety of things, but particularly, looking at the reduction in the gut absorbing oxalate. So the gut shouldn't necessarily absorb oxalates and good bacteria should break down the oxalates, and oxalates can cause a lot of inflammation.

It can affect the individual mitochondria and cellular function, and

as we talked about in the last summit, it can create anxiety and other things like that. And this particular probiotic was used, showing a reduction in oxalates being absorbed from the gut. So



that was, I thought, a really interesting helpful study on specific types of probiotics.

Trudy Scott: Very interesting. So this is the VSL#3 probiotic that helps with

oxalate absorption? Julie Matthews: Yes. Trudy Scott: Very interesting. And this is a human study? Julie Matthews: It was. Trudy Scott: Very, very interesting. Do you happen to know what the strains

are in this VSL#3? Is it very high, or is it just that they happen to be doing the study?

Julie Matthews: It's a very high strain. It's very high. It's like 200 billion CFUs

(colony forming units). I think 200 to 400 billion. It's a very high potency probiotic. It's often a prescription-based probiotic. It contains many of the Lactobacillus strains and a few other strains. It's mostly in that family, which is interesting because the actual bacteria that is known to break down oxalate is actually Oxalobacter formigenes and that's not in this probiotic. But it appears that not only that one probiotic that was really named after that, which we know it does a great job at, but even these other probiotics are helpful in breaking down. Well, I'm not exactly sure that this study is saying how it's doing it, but whether it's that the probiotics are kind of breaking down that oxalate and not allowing it to absorb or some other function, maybe – I don't know if it's the gut barrier integrity – but based on these probiotics, it was able to reduce that absorption of the oxalate in people that had high oxalates in their bloodstream and in their body and, I believe, had kidney stones as well. But not everybody that has oxalate issues has kidney stones.

Trudy Scott: Great. Well, I'd like to just take a step back because I know we

talked about oxalates extensively on this the first time in season 1, but for folks who may not have listened to that, can we just give a quick recap of a few foods that may be high in oxalates just so we're aware of it. And we did talk about how these oxalates can cause pain issues and can actually contribute to anxiety and mood problems as well, but let's discuss a few foods. Then I'd like to come back to that strain of good bacteria that you mentioned, but let's talk about the foods first.



Julie Matthews: Sure. So there's actually a couple of ways you can have a problem with oxalates and one of them – it's just certain people's biochemistry or their ability to create oxalate internally. But oxalate also comes, as you mentioned, from food, so people might have different reasons for their oxalate issues. And one of those might be that they're eating very high oxalate foods or because of their issue, they need to eat low oxalate foods. So high oxalates are in things like nuts, particularly almonds are very high. And so this is again, I feel very passionately about, there is no one diet that works for everybody and today there are a lot of grain-free diets. And I love that.

I think grains are one of the more problematic foods that a lot of

people have trouble with especially for their digestion, but then you see people using high amounts of almond flour or other nut flours. Almond flours specifically has, just to give you an example, 400 milligrams of oxalates in a quarter of a cup, so somebody, in a single serving of nuts, flour or almond flour, let's say, bread or something like that, could be getting ten times more oxalates than some people can handle in an entire day. So almonds are high, and nuts in general are high. Beans are high. Beets and kiwi fruits, those are some of the ones – sweet potatoes, so again, these aren't all bad foods.

Probably one of the biggest ones that most people are familiar with

is spinach. Spinach is very high. So spinach has somewhere between 500 and 1,000 in a serving. So if you think that a lot of people are doing their best to get calcium rich foods, they're eating a lot of spinach, they're getting some nuts – they're doing these wonderful nutrition principles. But for some people, especially, they really have a difficult time with this high level of oxalates. That really can affect their gut. Like you said, it can then affect a whole cascade of other things including mood and anxiety.

Trudy Scott: Excellent. Thank you. Thanks for that clarification. Julie Matthews: Sure. Trudy Scott: As we heard last time, I have discovered I've got an issue with

oxalates and I've discovered that kiwi fruit really is high in oxalates by mistake one time. [Laughs]

Julie Matthews: Unfortunately, the hard way. Trudy Scott: Yeah, you find out the hard way. So I'm glad that we just had a

little recap there because it's not an area that a lot of people know



about and I know you're an expert in this area. So I want to go back to the Oxalobacter formigenes. Did I pronounce that correctly?

Julie Matthews: That's right. Trudy Scott: So imagine if they had a study with the VSL#3, plus this form,

how much better results they would see. Would you expect to see that?

Julie Matthews: Yes. In fact, there are some studies, I believe, on the Oxalobacter

formigenes. The challenge is that it's not commercially available in the United States. It is commercially available in some other countries. So that's a really good thing. But for us, we don't have that. So yeah, the studies show very positive results, but the challenge is that not everybody can get it. So since some people can't get it, they use other types of probiotics, and particularly, VSL 3 was shown to be helpful in the study. That's one that some people tend to use.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. You answered my next question: is it available? So

I'm glad to know that. Thank you for sharing that. Julie Matthews: Sure. Trudy Scott: Well, it's good to hear that VSL#3 seems to be helping as well.

Maybe you just need really high doses of some of the others to have some of these effects.

Julie Matthews: Yeah, again, this is why studies are so important. It would be

interesting to know what it is about that. Is it the high doses? Is it something else? Is it a combination of things? But again, I don't want everybody running out and buying VSL3. It's got little traces of dairy. Some people don't do well with that. So again, everybody – and you know what, there is too much, in my opinion, there can be too much of a good thing. Certain people with SIBO, which we'll talk about in a minute, sometimes too much of a good thing actually causes them challenges. So more is not always better. But it's good to know if somebody is looking at all of their available options; it might be something for them to consider.

Trudy Scott: Good. And I'm glad you mentioned that. We're talking about a lot

of things here and not everything is going to work for everyone and we need to figure out what your biochemistry is and what you're going to need. So take this information, realize how beneficial the concept is, and then figure out what might be



applicable to you. So thanks for making that clarification. Continuing on the probiotics, let's talk about some other types of probiotics that we might see out there.

Julie Matthews: Yes. Well, there's a lot of probiotics on the market. Typically,

what I tend to see most are the freeze-dried probiotics. Just as the name says, the way that they're preserved or remain in a dormant state is that they freeze-dry them. And so a lot of the kind of the main probiotics that I'm most familiar with, a lot of them use that particular kind of method in there, those types of probiotics, and they can be Lactobacillus strains or Bifido strains. And the nice thing about probiotic supplements is that you can really get very targeted with specific ones. So some people don't do well with Strep strains and so they won't get a probiotic supplement that has those and it may be other people need maybe Lactobacillus rhamnosus, which for some people might be better for maybe like skin conditions and things.

So the nice thing about a probiotic supplement is you can very

much target the particular strains if there are any strains that you need for any particular condition. Certain ones are known better to help with certain pathogens and things like that. So that makes probiotics nice that you can target very specifically the types of strains that might be best. Some people have an excess of acidity and lactic acid and so they do better with a D-lactate free type of a probiotic. Some people don't do well with FOS or inulin type substances, which we'll talk about when we talk about prebiotics in a moment.

And there are some probiotics that are free of those extra prebiotics

basically. And there's also a type of probiotic, the soil based organisms or some people call them SBOs, and again, they're the types of strains that might be isolated from soil at one point in time and these are not freeze-dried. These are typically dehydrated, so they have a different method. For some people, certain things colonize better. Certain people need and do better with different types. So there are a variety of different probiotics that someone might choose.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. And I'm glad you mentioned some of the probiotics

that you'll find have prebiotics added in with them. And we're going to talk about prebiotics in a second and that may be problematic for some people. So I'm glad we brought that one up. And I'd love a little bit of more clarification on the D-lactate free. Could you talk a little bit more about that?



Julie Matthews: Sure. So there are certain people that for just a variety of different reasons, there are certain markers they might look for in their labs, or they have a condition of acidity and lactic acid. A lot of bacteria are lactic acid bacteria. So some people don't do well with those. So they might choose a different strain of probiotics than somebody else would that are free of those particular lactic acid strains, and so again, it's going to probably be different. But for instance, Lactobacillus acidophilus would have that – it's one of those lactic acid versions. So people might do more of like a rhamnosus or a Bifidobacterium, something like that. So it's different.

It's basically choosing different strains based on that individual

need. And somebody's health care provider could look at stool tests or other things and determine which probiotic might be particularly helpful. Or if somebody doesn't do well with, say, Lactobacillus acidophilus, maybe one of those reasons might be that lactate, and so getting the D-lactate free might be a good option for them. And there are some companies that makes specific D-lactate free versions.

Trudy Scott: Okay. Very interesting because there is some research showing

that people who've had panic attacks have higher levels of lactate and it would be interesting to see if some of these studies are actually using D-lactate free probiotics when they're helping some of the mood problems. Very interesting.

Julie Matthews: Very interesting. Trudy Scott: Yeah. Okay, so we mentioned prebiotics. So let's just talk a little

bit about prebiotics, and these are non-digestible foods that actually help the body to make its own good bacteria in the digestive system. Anything else that I need to say in terms of what a prebiotic is?

Julie Matthews: Yeah. And that's pretty much it. It's sort of food for the bacteria.

It's carbohydrates that we can't break down that they can break down. They use that as food and so that helps them to colonize. So that's why sometimes probiotic supplements will include some of these prebiotics in there and includes their food source with them so that then they wake up, they're able to kind of have their food source there and be able to use it. And so a lot of times, there are a lot of great principles and need for these. In fact, there's Dr. Kellman, who wrote a book called The Microbiome Diet and he talks a lot about prebiotics and the importance of prebiotics for good gut health and that is very true.



Things like garlic and onion and banana and asparagus and things

like that are good sources of these prebiotics and they help. They help to create a fermentation environment for these good bacteria. The challenge is they're also high in fermentable carbohydrates, or something that we call FODMAPs. And this particular type of fermentable carbohydrate is not really tolerated by some people. Maybe we'll talk about it next when we talk about SIBO or maybe I'll just kind of bring it in now. It's small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and it's good bacteria, but good bacteria are supposed to be in a lot higher concentrations in the colon or in the large intestine. When it gets into the small intestine, there are smaller amounts in the small intestine, and the small intestine is smaller.

So if you think about it, like one of those little balloons, like those

little animal balloons they have for kids. If you have too much gas or you're blowing gas or air into that balloon, it's going to stretch. And when the walls of that small intestine stretch too much, it can create a lot of discomfort. So the small intestine usually doesn't have large amounts of bacteria. But when we don't have the migrated motor complex that keeps everything moving down, and for whatever combination of reasons, somebody might have too much good bacteria in the wrong place basically. And when that happens, that good bacteria is going to ferment these fermentable carbohydrates and create gas and that can cause a lot of discomfort for some people.

So for everybody at some point, certain prebiotics, large amounts

of beans, for example, might cause everybody a problem at a certain point. But some people are very sensitive in part sometimes because of this particular condition and so that's why we want to just be careful with both too much probiotics or too many prebiotics for certain people. I would say in general, it's a really good principle, but I know that even myself, I don't have a problem with really any FODMAPs foods. But if I drink chicory root tea or if I take a probiotic with inulin or something, it creates quite a bit of pain and discomfort for me that other just normal foods, like bananas or something like that, doesn't necessarily do. So for some people, they want to be careful or they might just need to choose their probiotic based on their prebiotics.

Trudy Scott: Okay, good. And this goes back to this whole biochemical

individuality, which is so important, or as you call it BioIndividual Nutrition. And I just want to recap, you mentioned the garlic and the onion and the asparagus and bananas. And then I don't know that we mentioned that inulin and chicory were part of this



prebiotic list. So I just wanted to make sure that we were clear on that.

Julie Matthews: Yes, okay, thank you. Yes, thank you, for bringing that up. So

some of them come in food, but the one you'll typically see in a probiotic formula are either listed as inulin or sometimes FOS, fructo-oligosaccharides. And those are the ones that you might find in the prebiotic supplements or inside the probiotic supplements. In fact, they even sell prebiotic supplements. You can buy just whole caps of prebiotics. But usually, we're talking about the probiotics that will have the prebiotics in it.

Trudy Scott: Right, yeah, just wanted to make sure we had that clear. Julie Matthews: Thank you. Trudy Scott: Now that's good. And then I just also wanted to mention another

study that I mentioned in my book and this was looking at people with irritable bowel syndrome. It was done in 2009. They gave them prebiotics. I don't actually remember which ones they were, but it increased their Bifidobacterium and it reduced the anxiety and the depression and it also changed their stool consistency and resulted in less bloating. So there's going to be some people that are going to benefit and then as you say, there's going to be some people that may have a problem.

Julie Matthews: Yes. And the reason I mentioned these things is because your

neighbor or something is going to come and say, "Oh, this is the best thing that I've ever done. This diet or this supplement or this thing is the best thing I've ever done." And then you try to do it and then you feel worse and then you think, "Did I do it wrong? Did I not do it well enough? Maybe it's not related to that at all." And so I just like to mention these things because everybody is unique and you're absolutely right. In general, these are really good things and a lot of studies show great things about prebiotics. It would only be something to think about if you were having any challenges with that.

Trudy Scott: Absolutely. And then a few other prebiotics. Psyllium is a

prebiotic, isn't it? Julie Matthews: I believe it is as well, yes. And yeah, and there are a lot of

vegetables that have prebiotics as well. Greens, dandelion greens, leeks, asparagus, and those types of things as well.



Trudy Scott: Okay, great. Let's talk about when you use foods versus supplements and the pros and cons of one versus the other.

Julie Matthews: Sure. I think that they're both good and some people will include

both. Some people that are pretty healthy people and their gut is pretty healthy, they might stick with fermented foods because they're easy and they're food and they've got a lot of other good principles. The nice thing about fermented food is that it's a form of food that is already partly digested, so it tends to create a little less gas. It also tends to be better digestible, have more access to the nutrients that good bacteria creates, things like vitamin C and other nutrients, so it can be higher in nutrients than the foods themselves that aren't fermented. They can often help with supporting a good pH balance in the gut. So fermented foods have lots of wonderful qualities. The other nice thing about fermented foods is that you can get a lot of bacteria in a serving.

So Dr. Joseph Mercola did a test recently on some of his own

homemade sauerkraut and found 10 trillion beneficial bacteria in a four- to six-ounce serving. So that's a hundred times the amount of bacteria in a bottle of a high potency probiotic in a serving. So it is really a great way. So a lot of people like to do fermented foods and you can get a lot of good bacteria that way. The thing about probiotic supplements is, as I mentioned earlier, you can really single out the strains that you need. Most strains of fermented foods contain Lactobacillus acidophilus.

So if you don't do well with those strains of more of the lactic acid

type of bacteria or you're looking for a strain, again, for a particular function or need, then the probiotics are nice. Or maybe you have a child that's kind of a picky eater and you're having trouble figuring out how you're going to get the fermented food in or you're working with a nursing mom and a baby and the baby is not going to be chumping on sauerkraut, that might be a time where the probiotic supplements have some particular beneficial use.

Trudy Scott: Excellent. So we talked a little bit about how fermented foods and

probiotics may not be good for someone who has the small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Can you talk a little bit more about some other people who may have trouble with fermented foods? And I know you talk about this extensively when you do your training in the BioIndividual Nutrition Institute, but can you give us a few little pointers on what we might need to think about?



Julie Matthews: Absolutely. So firstly, about SIBO, some people with SIBO do better with probiotics and some people do worse. So it's not automatically that you're going to do worse. So I'll just say that up front. But some of the other ones, I mean, there are some diets that are really heavy in fermented foods because they have such wonderful qualities. And like I said, sometimes people will start doing some of these diets and they will end up feeling worse. And so then sometimes it really saddens me; sometimes people will be on these message boards and people will jump on their case saying, "Oh, you must be doing the diet wrong then because these are wonderful principles," and the reality is that because everybody is unique and different, they may not all do well with fermented foods or even sometimes probiotics as well.

So fermented foods contain high levels of amines. One of those

amines is called histamines, and the other and also very high in glutamate. So I actually heard a man speak at a Weston A. Price conference once and he actually was so sensitive to glutamate that when he would eat fermented foods, he would actually get a seizure. So that's an extreme example. So I've never, never heard that before other than him. But just to give you an example, amines and glutamate, they have to be processed by a couple of things – an MAO enzyme, which some people don't have functioning really well and also through a sulfation pathway. So I won't go into all the chemistry, but there are some people that in certain biochemical pathways that aren't ideally functioning, that for them when they consume fermented foods, they can create headaches, irritability, flushing, just a lot of negative symptoms for them.

And that could be the amines and glutamate that are in there and it

just turns out that children with autism often have a lot of challenges with some of those biochemical pathways. Again, many of them do very, very well with fermented foods and it's one of the very things that they definitely need because they need to work on that gut and balance. But if someone were consuming these foods and they weren't doing well, or they were seeing symptoms and they might just be suspect or be a little suspicious – could it be the amines or glutamate? So people that react to other amines are things like red wine, chocolate, cheese, aged cheeses, bananas; those are all high in amines. So if somebody reacted to those, they might be a little careful of fermented foods.

Glutamates are high in, of course, MSG, but also soy sauce and

Parmesan; or my friends down in Australia, Vegemite. And so again, if someone reacted to those types of foods – those are



glutamate foods – and they also might not do so well with fermented foods because ferments break down the foods, break down the amino acids, and release the amines and the free glutamate. And so that's one of the ways some people have trouble with fermented foods. There's a couple of other ways. There are bacterial ferments and there are yeast ferments. So yogurt is a bacterial ferment, like we talked about some of the bacteria that are in there, but something like kefir or kombucha – they contain good beneficial bacteria, but they also contain beneficial yeast. But some people, maybe based on their immune system, they're over reactive to these yeast; and even the friendly yeast, they're creating these immune system reactions, too, so some people don't handle yeast ferments very well and they might need to stick with the bacterial ferments or something like that.

There's actually the possibility, believe it or not, that you can have

an immune system or allergic reaction to the flagellum. It's like the little motor of the bacteria. So people can actually also be reacting. Their immune system can react to the probiotics, the good bacteria as well. And so some people might have immune reactions to them as well. Again, it's very rare. I've only heard of one client that ever had – maybe one or two – that ever had that, but maybe people with more extreme immune system reactions, it's possible.

So again, I would say that for the vast majority of people, they do

well with fermented foods, they do well with probiotics. It's often one of the things that they very much need, but if somebody were consuming them and they thought, you know, "I don't know why I'm feeling worse," or "I don't know why I'm not feeling better," and they start to suspect that maybe there's something with those, there might really be something to that. They might want to listen to that, their body and consider maybe what they need to do. I'm not a person who says, "Well, then just avoid fermented foods your whole life" because we need that good bacteria, but maybe they want to work on building up certain nutrient deficiencies, maybe they want to figure out what pathways are deficient and try to do some supplementation to support it so that they are able to go back and hopefully, consume some of these because they're so good.

Trudy Scott: Wonderful. And that's so interesting about the immune reaction to

the good bacteria. And a follow-up question on the ones, like the kefir and the kombucha that contain the yeast as well as the good bacteria. Would this be an issue with someone who may have candida?



Julie Matthews: Yes, I believe so, because at least this is my theory or what I've kind of seen is that if you're reacting to yeast – and candida is a pathogen yeast versus some of these other beneficial yeast – but if the body is maybe having trouble fighting it off and it's constantly being exposed to it, the immune system is constantly going off saying, "There's a yeast, you know, there's a yeast invader, there's a yeast invader, let's get it, let's get it, let's get it." And then it's very possible that the good yeast, it might be overreacting to them not realizing that they're friend, not foe. At least that's been my experience. So I do think that – again, sometimes ferments and yeast ferments are the exact thing that people with candida benefit from because the good yeast helps to combat the bad yeast. But I have seen a few, a smaller number of people where it does seem that they're reacting and that's my suspicion of why.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. So this is a matter of seeing what your reaction is and

adjusting if you need to, so no one size fits all. Julie Matthews: Exactly. Trudy Scott: Got it, good. Now, I'd like to just go into a little bit about making

fermented foods and I'm really excited that you're going to share this part because I wanted to share that Julie does these wonderful classes. She's got a wonderful DVD where she teaches how to make some of these wonderful foods and other really nourishing nutrient-dense foods for people with some of these challenges. And she did this amazing live class down in San Francisco. I live in Sacramento and I went down and did a class on how to make raw sauerkraut and it was absolutely fantastic. It was just so wonderful to be part of it and to see how easy it is and to walk away with this wonderful product. We walked away with some other great ferments as well. But Julie is going to share with us a little bit how you could conceivably make your own sauerkraut if you wanted to do that and get these beautiful good bacteria into the diet. So before we go into the raw sauerkraut, just tell us why we might want to think about making our own fermented foods.

Julie Matthews: Sure. Well, it's a lot less expensive. So when I did the math on it,

it's about one-tenth the price to make your own, so it's really cost-effective. So that's one reason. The other thing is that you can make it with ingredients either that you enjoy more or with ingredients that you tolerate. So sometimes I work with people that have a lot of food intolerances and they can't handle a lot of different things or maybe they're trying to keep the oxalates low, so they want to do the sauerkraut, or the beets or whatever it is. So the other nice thing is it's very flexible and you can use the ingredients that you tolerate and the ingredients that you like and



you want in there. You can also ferment it to the level that you want to.

So for example, kombucha, if you ferment it not long enough, it's

sweet; and if you ferment it too long, it's vinegar. And with maybe a child, maybe you just ferment it just a tiny bit less so it's a little bit on the sweeter side rather on the more vinegar side. Then you don't have to add fruit juice or something else to it. So you can ferment it to the level you want or sometimes with a yogurt for example, maybe you, for example, with a specific carbohydrate/SCD or a GAPs diet, you want to make homemade yogurt and you want to ferment it for 24 hours to make sure all the lactose gets fermented out. And you want to avoid the additives and the thickeners and things that are in the yogurt. So by making your own, it's not only much more cost-effective, but you can really tailor it to exactly your needs.

Trudy Scott: Love it. And the other great thing is if you're making something

like that sauerkraut or anything that you're making on your own, it's local, it's in season, it's homemade. You know exactly what's going into it, which I think is so powerful.

Julie Matthews: Exactly. And that's exactly one of the things I like about making

my own sauerkraut is that you don't actually need a culture starter. Some probiotics and some fermented foods, you need a culture starter, but I love the fact that you're really totally self-sustainable and you can get a head of cabbage and you can literally make your own sauerkraut with nothing but a head of cabbage and a little bit of salt and so it's not something you need anything special for. I mean, there's some special equipment if you want to buy it, but you don't need to and you don't need anything extra and I really like that sort of sustainability and sort of personal take charge of your own personal situation, which I think is fun.

Trudy Scott: So let's talk about sauerkraut. What would you do? Let's just give

a high level. I know that we can both give a lot more detail, but let's just give a high level to get people inspired here.

Julie Matthews: Absolutely. And I'm going to share a video with them as well, so

they can get much more of the details of it. There are two ways that you can do it. Again, you can do it with a starter or without. I'm going to talk about doing it without a starter for the reasons I just mentioned. Usually, I tend to use mostly cabbage. So I tend to use probably about 75 percent cabbage and I might add other vegetables to it. This way, I know that there's enough Lactobacillus – it's naturally on the cabbage. So if you make it



with certain other vegetables, let's say, I don't know, butternut squash or 100 percent carrots, it might get a little bit slimy or something if you don't have a starter. If I use cabbage, I know it's always going to be successful. So I tend to use about 75 percent or so cabbage. Then I might add some carrots or some ginger or some beets or some greens or some seaweed or something else in there, depending on what flavor I like it.

And then the secret to making it is to make sure you inhibit mold

growth. That is, if you inhibit mold growth, then that's all you really need to do, the bacteria does all the rest. So the way you do that is you use salt. Salt will inhibit the mold growth and you use water. If you completely submerge it under water, mold can't grow and only the bits that come in and float up to the top will mold so you want to just scrape all those little bits off and make sure they're not there. So you need some way of keeping it submerged under the water and that's why they do make special crocks and different jars and things and I'll share some of those different containers you might think about. But you can literally use a mason jar with another type of a jar on top. Or a crock with a plate on top of it, anything you can do where you can push the cabbage underneath the waterline and keep it there with some sort of a weight for a period of time for a couple of weeks to a couple of months.

You ferment it on the countertop. You want to put something over

the top like a cloth or something. Just make sure bugs or something doesn’t get in. And that's pretty much all you need: salt, water, and some sort of a container that will help you accomplish all of those pieces. And that's all you need. Then you leave it on your counter. A cool spot is better, something that's not too sunny, but that's all you need and then nature does all the rest. Lactobacillus is a lactic acid bacteria; it's acidic and so pathogens can't really grow. Not only mold, but other bacterial pathogens can't grow in that environment either. So some people will use a little bit of their sauerkraut starter from their other batch.

So sometimes I'll make a batch. I'll take it all out. I'll, what I call,

harvest it or put it in jars and put it in my refrigerator when I'm ready, when it's done and then maybe I'll use a little bit less over from my last batch and mix it in with my new batch. That way, I'm not using any sort of a fancy starter, but I'm starting it off in the right direction. Many times I don't actually do that, so people don't need to do that, but if you're new and maybe you just want to kind of kick-start it in the right direction, then using a little bit of a current batch will kind of get that going and once it gets going, then it's all set on its own.



Trudy Scott: Wonderful. As you mentioned, you've got a gift giveaway for

folks to sign up to get access to a video where you're going to show people how to make their own homemade sauerkraut.

Julie Matthews: Absolutely. It's from my cooking course that you were talking

about. My cooking course is also on DVD and there's a cookbook and everything associated with lots of other types of recipes as well, so people will basically get that video from the course. I'm going to give it to everybody as just a free gift for them if they're interested in learning more.

Trudy Scott: Well, thank you for doing that. And I know the recipe is in the

Cooking to Heal DVD and both are fabulous, and there's other cultured vegetables in there. You talk about, you know, how to make coconut kefir and kombucha and the water-based kefir soda. So it's going to be a great start for people to get inspired and want to try and make their own ferments.

Julie Matthews: Absolutely. And it's not hard at all, but sometimes it's nice to have

someone hold your hands the first time. So by seeing somebody else do it, it can just demystify it a bit and make it fun.

Trudy Scott: Yes, it really does. Going down to the in-person cooking class that

you did where we did it in person. It was good. You could see what it's supposed to look like. You could try it out and feel comfortable with it because it feels like it's a little bit of a big project initially, but once you do it once and you see someone do it, which you will see in the video, it's going to make a lot more sense and it's going to be a lot easier than you think.

Julie Matthews: Right, right. It's a little bit weird to consider doing a science

experiment where you're growing bacteria on your counter. So it's nice to just know a few of the tips to start it in the right direction.

Trudy Scott: Exactly. And some of these ferments look a little bit weird, so

feeling comfortable with how they're going to look and hearing an expert share their information is definitely going to give you a bigger level of comfort which is what we want.

Julie Matthews: And if someone has an opportunity to try real live raw sauerkraut,

even if it's a store-bought brand, but it's in the refrigerated section, it's got the live cultures we talked about, it's not pasteurized, they'll get a real sense of what it's supposed to look like and smell like. You know pretty well if your sauerkraut has gone the wrong



direction and if you've tried, you kind of know what you're shooting for. So it also is very helpful.

Trudy Scott: Good, and that's a good point because we don't want to be buying

the store-bought sauerkraut that's sitting in the non-refrigerated section because that's not the real deal.

Julie Matthews: Exactly. And then in terms of containers, I won't go into too

much, but there's a few brands and there's like just a regular ceramic crock, or there's a really cool – one of the ones that I have is a Harsch crock and that's another kind of fancy ceramic crock, but then there's also pickling jars. And there's a new cool invention that just came out from a colleague and friend, and hers is called Kraut Source and she's actually in the process of making that right now and so that's a really nice one, too. So you can spend anything from 20 bucks to 200 or nothing and have some sort of a container to use.

Trudy Scott: Yep. And that's a good point. You can get fancy, or make it with

the basics, and I just got a big crock pot and then put a plate over it and filled a big Coke bottle with water, and that was with my weight that held it under, and that to me, is the only use for a Coke bottle. [Laughter]

Julie Matthews: Oh, that's funny. Trudy Scott: So anything works. You don't have to get all the fancy stuff, but I

like the idea of trying it out first, seeing if you like it. And we do want to just mention that if you have sauerkraut, you're not going to have a mountain on your plate. It's a small condiment serving size. We didn't mention that. So it's just a small amount that you would want to have, correct?

Julie Matthews: Yeah, especially when you're first starting out. Now, the serving

size on Mercola's study was four to six ounces. So that's a much larger serving size that somebody else might do, but when you're starting – I mean, even small amounts of these things every day or a couple of times a day or something, using condiment size is also good. So just start where you are with what you like and that will be a good place to start.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. Well, thank you so much for offering that great

video, so we'll make sure that the link to get the video is on the replay page and on the blog and this is going to be this video on making sauerkraut. And then you've got another gift for practitioners and this might be for people who would be interested



in the BioIndividual Nutrition Institute. So could you just share what that gift is and then a little bit about the BioIndividual Nutrition Institute.

Julie Matthews: Sure. So for practitioners that are interested in some of the things

that I was talking about today, they might be interested in our institute. It's called the BioIndividual Nutrition Institute and the gifts that I want to share with you is a talk that I did on the importance of personalizing diet in your practice. So we have about 100 people in our Institute at this point. We have doctors, we have nutrition consultants, and we have all sorts of people with different backgrounds. Anybody that's using nutrition in their practice would be interested in these approaches that I'm talking about.

I talk about 12 different diets. I go into a lot of the things that I

was talking about today in terms of how do you individualize this? How do you figure out the types of symptoms that might cause certain reactions and the types of foods that are related to those and all of that? So that people can really help individualize a diet because as we said, everybody is unique and different. Everybody has a unique biochemistry and one diet is not going to work for everybody. I guess you get kind of an idea of some of the gems and some of the pieces that you can start and use in your practice right away and then get a better sense of the Institute and the types of things that we teach there. So I'm going to make that available to all the practitioners along with the sauerkraut video. So there will be two different links if you want both of those or depending on what you're interested in.

Trudy Scott: Great. Well, thanks for doing that as well. And I just wanted to

mention you're just finishing up the last training in the BioIndividual Nutrition Institute, and that material is going to be available as a home study version that you can do at any time. Is that correct?

Julie Matthews: Absolutely. So there are two courses actually. The first course is

12 weeks and it goes into all the different special diets: low oxalates, low phenol, low FODMAPs, SCD, GAPS, GFCF, all – you know, ketogenic, you name it and we go into depth on how to use it, when to use it, what the studies say, what types of conditions, all these types of things. There's a lot of science in there as well as the practical, how to implement it, how to help your clients and patients implement it. And then the second course is very specifically on my passion, which is autism and kids nutrition, ADHD, and other developmental delays and other



conditions like that. So, that's an add-on course. So the first course adds on to the second course for those people that are interested in that particular specialty.

Trudy Scott: Okay, great. And I know you've got some software that goes with

this so it makes it a lot easier and I know you're going to be talking about fermented foods and probiotics in both of these courses. So what we've covered today is a nice preview to Julie's expertise and knowledge on the subject.

Julie Matthews: Absolutely. Trudy Scott: Great. Well, thanks, Julie, so much for being here. This has been

really fantastic. I knew you wouldn't disappoint.- lots of research, lots of practical information. I'm just feeling like going and having some yummy sauerkraut right now or some nice yogurt.

Julie Matthews: Me, too. Trudy Scott: Any final words of wisdom before we end? Julie Matthews: You know, I think if you're on a journey to wellness like most

human beings hopefully are, that just starting where you are and taking one step at a time, and fermented foods are a nice easy thing that all of us can do. We all need to eat food. It's accessible, it's available, we can buy it in the store, or we can make it ourselves. And it's helpful just from the bottom up. So it's helpful for the gut and everything that's related from there on. So I think it's a really nice easy first step that people can take. So I wish everybody well on their journey to nourishing health and hope to see them sometime soon.

Trudy Scott: Great. Thanks so much, Julie. It's been really a pleasure having

you again and thanks for the wonderful gifts. I look forward to everyone hearing this and I look forward to everyone joining us on some other great interviews on The Anxiety Summit. This has been a fabulous call and this is Trudy Scott signing off.

Here is the speaker blog: http://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/fermented-foods-probiotics-anxiety-depression/



Julie Matthews, Certified Nutrition Consultant, author of Nourishing Hope for Autism

Julie Matthews is a Certified Nutrition Consultant specializing in autism spectrum disorders, ADHD, and nutrition for pregnancy. Her approached is based on the BioIndividual NutritionTM needs of each person. She provides dietary guidance backed by scientific research and applied clinical experience. Her award winning book, Nourishing Hope for Autism, has helped people around the world to make food and nutrition choices that aid the health, learning, and behavior of those with autism, ADHD, and other developmental delays. She presents at leading autism conferences in the US and abroad, and is the Nutrition Editor of the Autism File magazine. She is on the scientific advisory board for USAAA (U.S. Autism & Asperger Association) and the Autism Nutrition Research Center. She is the co-founder of Nourishing Hope and BioIndividual Nutrition Institute. Julie has a private nutrition practice in San Francisco, California, and supports families and clinicians from around the world with her nutrition learning tools and professional training courses. Visit NourishingHope.com and BioIndividualNutrition.com Trudy Scott, CN, host of The Anxiety Summit, Food Mood expert and author of The Antianxiety Food Solution

Food Mood Expert Trudy Scott is a certified nutritionist on a mission to educate and empower women worldwide about natural solutions for anxiety, stress and emotional eating. Trudy works with women one-on-one and in groups, serving as a catalyst in bringing about life enhancing transformations that start with the healing powers of eating real whole food, using individually targeted supplementation and making simple lifestyle changes. She also presents nationally to nutrition and mental health professionals on food and mood, sharing all the recent research and how-to steps so they too can educate and empower their clients and patients.

Trudy is past president of the National Association of Nutrition Professionals. She was recipient of the 2012 Impact Award and currently serves as a Special Advisor to the



Board of Directors. She is a member of Alliance for Addiction Solutions and Anxiety and Depression Association of America. Trudy is the author of The Antianxiety Food Solution: How the Foods You Eat Can Help You Calm Your Anxious Mind, Improve Your Mood and End Cravings (New Harbinger 2011). The information provided in The Anxiety Summit via the interviews, the blog posts, the website, the audio files and transcripts, the comments and all other means is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for advice from your physician or other health care professional. You should consult with a healthcare professional before starting any diet, exercise, or supplementation program, before taking or stopping any medication, or if you have or suspect you may have a health problem.

julie matthews fermented foods and probiotics for anxiety ... · potentially getting all of these...

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