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Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

WEDNESDAY, 25 NOVEMBER 1914

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

2192 Questions. [ASSE~IBLY.] Questions.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEIVIBL Y.

\YED);ESDW, 25 XoYE:UBER. 1914.

The SPEAKER (Hon. \Y. D. Arm,trong, LQrkycr) took the chair at halE-pa5t 3 o'clock.

QL:ESTIOXS.

RAIL WAY EAR~IXGF.

Mr. ROBFRTS (Ea.,t 1'uol1'1iollllw) a~kcd the Sc_•ereLry for Raihvayc-

" \Yhat were th" earnings of the rail'Ya\·~, in Hw Southern. l\•ntral. and :\orthem Divi-;ions during the mo:,ths of Augu·t, September, Odobr:r, 1913; Augu,t, St>vtemb~r. Octob,•r, 1914-(1) r;dh;,'._1y far0"; (2) fre!g·ht. liYe stock, and \vool; (3) general Inerc:~audi''l' ;,:,

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. \V. T. Paget, Jiac~~ay) replied-

·' I have had a table prepared, >vhich I :3ugge&t be taken as read."

Ho~ocRABLE 1Y1EC~IBERS: Hear, hear!

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QL"AR.\~1IXI~G OF STEA~IER "K_,::-;;o-,v~A."

Hox. R PHILP (1'ulcns;,ilh) asked the Chid Secretary--

.. 1. I-Ia5 he 1nado a ~trong protest aguin,,t the high-handed action cf the Connnon\Ycalth authorities in ordering the stcambr 'Kanmsna' had;: to Syclllf~,·c in C(;nsequenee of a f'ase of sickness aruong tho pab~,engc>rs?

.. 2 .. '>.s this is the first case of fhe kind that has happened in QueC'Ilblancl, elm'S he not think that a.n emphatic remon>tranco should be mcdc against such arbitrarv action·:"

The l:'RE:\liER (Hon. D. F. Denham, Ox/1 !!) repliPd-

.. 1 and 2. 1'\ o effectu<J.l prot<·<t coul<t bP raised on the g-round that tlw action ">Ya~ c·rbitrary, for it wa~ iu a.eeordancewith legi::lation passed b~" ParlianK•ni; .,_ncl IH'<'PJ'ted by the people. QuaJ:;tntina b w<., bm,<estl ,. enforced. oft••'n causa ,\~Tt!,\t inconve~1i0nC'e to indiYiduai"~ forthe proteetion of the community. There i< <'YPry reaso:1 to belieYo that thi,,, particular ac:ion >Yas toJ;:pn solelv in th& iuh•rL'st:s of Bri::;bane unU Qu£'eits.lanct',

~Hr. Hl-XI-IA:'\1 Wuran1la). on behalf of :\Ir. IIardaere, asked tho Secretary for Rail\YaT,'S-

' .. iYill he lay upon the tablo of the liou'e tho rPport of ~.Ir. Holmes a'CJnrt, Clerk of the LcgislatiYL' As,;embly. upcn the claim made b~· ::iJr_ I-Icnry Daniels for a railwa;y pass?"

Tlw SEf'RET"\RY FOR RAILWAYS r•,'pJiP<l--

·' Ye~. I now la,- the 1:eport on the tab!•' of the House.,,,

Co~cEssw~ ro QeEE~SL,',~D Pr:-;e C'o:uPA).x_

'\Ir. BERTRA:\I (Jir;rcc) asked the SL>eretarc for Public L<incls-

" 1. Has the Quc.onsland Pine ComJl>ny. Limited, H•cm·pd the right to cut 40.C· r .C~O feet of pine in the J'\,wango, clisti-iet. a• 1s. 6cl. per 100 feet?

•· 2. li'or 'vbt .. t rca;;:.on i:· the said compan~ allo":\ 2d to cut ti1nber at a price mud1 lo·.cr than that bP;nl',· !•aid by other C'on1panie::; in tho ~,unc cli~trict ?':o

Th" SECRETARY FOR YCBLICLAXDS (Hon. ,J. Tolmie, 1'oowoomba) replied---

" L On 29th Ko,-ember, 19C'J. tho Oue0nslancl Pine Cou1pan:r~ Li:nitcd~ ]1lll':'ha ... J at public auction. at the np>-et prier oi 1s. iA. per 100 '<!perfieial f<>et. the right to c :It 40,000.100 feet of plnf' su1Jjf'c·r to biQnnial revj,ions ba~ied on the selling price of sa>~n timbe1·, and the ro:. alty i3 nmr 1s. S~d. per lOU superficial feet .

.. 2. The rigM to cut the timber was sold at public nuction. The conditions of the purehase by the Queensland Pine Company. Limited, required the erection of a dwmic,,J plant at a cost of £5,00{) and the n'moya] of pine tops from the conn .cct area. These conditions are not "'ttachcd to other sales."

Questions. [25 NovEMBER.] Agricultural Produce Bill. 2193

PASSES DURI;s'G CHRISHIAS HOLIDAYS.

Mr. FOLEY (Mundingburra) asked the Secretary for Railwayo-

" 1. Is it a fact that his department has issued a notice to railway employees that no employee will be allowed to travel over the railways on a free pass between the 23rd December, 1914, and th,• 2nd January, 1915?

"2. If so, what provision does he intend to make to allow of the lengthsmen who are living in the bush all the year round going into some town to spend their holiday? "

The SECRETARY FOR replied-

RAILWAYS

" 1. X o. 'The restriction applies to mail trains only, mme a" last year.

"2. Employees holding free passps may travel bj any tram except mail trains."

NORTHERN RAILWAY ST>tiKL-TRAXSFER OF FITTERS.

Mr. HA?\IILTOJ'\ (Gregory) asked the Secretarv for Railwavs-

'· l. Is it true .that fitters are being transferred from HughC'ndon to Brisbane on thP ground.; of not suffietent work. 1vhilfl, at the ;"ame ti.::lH:>, 0llgincdrivers at Charter"~ To\v~ .. e~~ .. Hugh~,nden, and Cloncurry are doing work which, previou3 to the ~trike, was done by fitters:

.. 2. Is he a\\ arc that his instructions that all the men >Vho were out on :·trike willing to nturn '~.1ould be employed are net lx·iurr carried out? "

The SECimTARY FOR R~UL\YAYS replied

·· 1 and 2. :1\"o. lnq :iries will be made and in<:·uctions enforc;:cl. .,

SPECHL LUXl'H TRAIX-liSWICH \VORK HOPS.

Mr. KIRW .\.N tl11·isbane) a,ked the Se~rotary for Railw.1ys-

" 1. \Yhut is th0 cost per annum of running tho :<)l<;cial lunch train from the Ipswic·h Railwa:y \VorkBhop,, and what is the 'averag•• number of pasSP11,?.;<'1 carried daily'!

"2. On whose authority ;, this train ruu. in .-iew of the fact th ct an upto-date dining-he,]] hacC bP~n er.,ctHl and furnioh.•d at great expense, and is providing a firot-claso lunch f.,r officials and "~orkmC'n '? ))

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS replied-

" 1. £41 lOs. Thi·· train tak•"> stores over daily for dt ·patch to outside depoe.•, Average. six paf'-"~engezs."

" 2. It h11S been running· since the Chief i\1e<>hank.11 Engineer's oilicl'l was remos·ed from Brisbane, in ::Y1arch, 1905, and is included in the time-table."

RAILWAY CARPENTERS A~D LABOURERS.

Mr. KIRWAN asked the Secretary for Railwa>~-

,,.1. How many station carpenters and labourers have been dismissed during the last two months, and the rNtsons for dispensing with the serviceg of same?

1914-6T

"2. Is he aware that some of the men dispensed with are sPnior in servic''" to those retained and equally as competent as trades1nen?

" 3. \Yhat action does he intend taking with a view of re-employing these men? "

The SECRETARY FOR RAILW~\.YS replied-

" 1. In the Brisbane district twenhsoven carpenters and forty-four labourei·s haye been paid off during the last two months, principally on account of the works upon which they were engaged be!:'g c'.nuplotecL

2. :l'io. "3. It iR expected that ten carpenters

and five labourers will be re-employed on :Monday next."

CO-OPER_\.TIVE AGRIC"CLTURAL PRODCCTIOK BILL.

I~I'fHTJO~.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRIC"CL'ITRE (Hon. J. ·white, Jfu.<grrae) moved-

" 'That the House will, at its next sitting. resolve it9elf into a Committee of the \\'hole to consider of the desirableness of introcluc·ing a Bill to provide for advaclCes in aid of co-onerative entPrprise in connection with" the manufactun• and sbra~e of primary products of agriculture.'"

::\Ir. RCI'\TER (Jiaran·Ja): The motion submith•d to the~ House dob not coYer the ground that it .~hould do so as t·J n1uke it useful for tho prirm•ry producers of the State. It deals Pntirclv with the manufacture ::tnd ~torage of pd1nary produ(ts. The thne ha c.: nne 'vhen it i:;; ff und ll\"':..-~·ssary, in the interPst·, of ull l,Tudu'-'iiJ.g communities, to co-< ,;r. •i"e for oth<:'l' pm·pC!·C · besides the··.~'- In all eoun!ri--:::; of the world it i:3 found that, in orc!Pr to aclccpwkly mc•ct the condhions of the tin1c:c, it i·'"· lll~rc·-·:'!ar:v to ~;ei· in tDuch v. ith th0 C'Jllf,UrniD:/ public, and that can onh· be dono by estahli·.hirg markeL; of tlh :r own. That i·.; not unknown in the ~\u•tralian States. In South Australia, fm· iu•tcnc·'· thev han' m:crkeu which have br<•n ~:~vrv :?.LH ~ ... c·~"-ful. Fur a nuli1ber of year"' th,--l:t they haYe tT,;Tied on the ~<p;tem of reC'eivi.:. . .';!: and nHlrk-Jting" tho farnH)r~/ prodtwr•. I do not intend to delay the House at an~c length on thi~ que,tirm, but in order to give lll•''rr:bor.> an oppurhu.ity of ('"X;:n·cs:-i:n r,.( their opin;on on it. I n1ove that. after thr-r word •' the,'' vn line 4, tho "Jrd ":e1arketir.,; " be inserted. I du this beliPvim: that the bGbt inb n · ts of the er)mmunitv ·"·ill be >erved even mord in that respect than by nwrely arranging for manu~ facture and storage. There are a good number of products whic-h are not manufactured at all, but which nrc placed on the market in their natural condi!.ion. \Ve know that the great hulk of our farm produce goc' straight to the em:, umN' whl1out being manufactured at all, but at the preRent time it passes throu ;;h the hand , of a sr·cond person, who charges very high prices for finding markets and for handling these products. I think if it were po•sible for them to eo-operate and receive assistance ta erect stores and place their goods on the market. it would be to their advantage,. especially with re'iard to fodder and pro,ducts of the cl£scription I have referred to. The primary producers should be given facilities to mark(lt their products as well as manufacture and store them.

lir. Hunter.]

2194 Go-operative Sugar [ASSEMBLY.] Works Bill.

QuestiG:J-Tlwt tho word proposed to be in:-:erted (Jfr. Huntr,r'.-.. runcnr!rnrnt) be so inserted-put; and the House divided :-

Mr. Adamson Barber Bertram

, Bowman ,, Coyne , Fihelly ,, Foley

Gillie] , Hamilton , Hardacre , Hunter Tellers: Mr.

AYEs, 21. Mr. Huxham

Kirwan Land Larcom be

H Lennon McCormack O'i:lullivan Ryan

1' Theodore Winstanley

Bertram and Mr. Larcombe.

NOES, 3i. Mr. Appel Mr. Kc••ell

, Barnes, G. P. Luke , Barnes, \V. R. , Mackay

Bell , , )forgan Blair , Paget

, Booker Petrie ,, Bridges , Philp

Caine I.deut.-Col. Rankin , Cor>.er, B. H. Mr. Roberts , Corser, E. B. C. Stevens , Crawford Stodart , Denham , Tolmie ,, Forsyth ,, Vowles

Grant Walker , Grayson '\Vels.by

Gunn White , Hodge Williams

Tellers: Mr. Bell and J\Ir. Kc>Sell. Re,;olved in the negative. Origino.l r;ue.tion put and passed.

:MINIXG ACT AMEND::V1ENT BILL. MESSAGE FRmi COUNCIL,

The SPEAKER announced the receipt cf a message from the Council returning this Bill without amendment.

CO-OPER}~.TIVE SUGAR WORKS BILL. RESU~IPTION oF CmnnTTEE.

On postponed clause 7-" Construction and control of works and ·business"-

Liout.-Colonel RANKIN (Burru1n) moved the iilBertion, after " company" on line 43-

" or have deposited with the corporation an undertaking entered into by a bank or other approved financial institution, in form satisfactory to the corporation, to pay to the corporation, as and when demandPd by it, the full amount of the said capital repre·sented by the said shares.''

The object of the amendment was probably quite evident to hon. members from what took place when the Bill was last before the Chamber, when they discussed an amendment of a consequential nature to this one. There might occasionally arise situations where all the shareholders in a company were not in a position to find all the money t.hem~elves, and it would be a hardship if their effort·. were to fail merely on that account, and it was desir,,d that those people should be enabled to go to a banking or financial institution to obtain the necessary accommodation to assist them in the direction he had mentioned. But thB amendment also went a little further, and this was, perhaps, ,an important point. In subclause (b) it was laid down as one of the conditions to ,be observed-

" One-third of the shares of the company have been issued and allotted to persons ·who have entered into canegrowing agreements as hereinafter provided;

[ Lieut.-C olon'bl Rankin.

and the holders of these shares have paid in sterling money to the corporation the full amount of the capital represented by such shares, being a total of· one-third part of the capital of tho company."

According to tho wording of that provi_sion, before any application could be entf'rta!ned, it would be necessary that the actual amount in cash should be placed in the hands of th'il

·Treasurer. Hon. members who were conversant with the sugar industry knew that a sugar-mill could not be built in a day; as a matter of fact, from the date of the 'application to the erection of any new sugarworks. it would probably be eighteen months or twu year.-, and one of the object" he had in movinr; the amendment was to obviate tho nece,sity of having the money lying idle all the time. It would not impose any additional burden on the State; it merely providPd that. instead of the applicants having- to d ,'nosit the third of the money in ca:oh; the lodgment with the Trca ·•urer of a satisfactorv guarantee or unde1·taking by a bank or finan<:ial institution that thP money "ould be available as and when required would be sufficient. The Treasurer said when the Bill was last before the Chamber,' that he had no objection to the acceptance of the amendment. The whole object was merely to make it easier for the sugar-growers to take advanta_ge of this most liberal measure from a pnmary producdr's poini. of view. A good deal of disclt-o'ion took place when the Bill was last before the Chamber on the question of " drv " shareholders. It was pointed out by variou3 memb<:Jrs, particularly those representing tho Centre and North, that the Bill, as at present frame-d, by preventinil' the inclusion of " dry" sh ,,reholders might possibly prevent advantage being taken oi the provisions of the Bill in districts where the whole amount of monev could not be raised bv the settlers themselves. He was then, and wa?• still, opposed to the inclusi?n ~f " .dry " shareholders, as he did not tlnnk 1t was' -de oirable, and tho provision he sought to make in the amendment would have the dE,,ired effect in a much more satisfaotory wav. It must be borne in mind that the sugar-growers who sought to take advantage of the provisions of the Bill would have their deeds free and at their own disposaL One-third of the shares were allotted to them as soon as th<' money was paid, so that, with the security they held, they would not experience any difficulty in obta2ning funds in districts where, perhaps, the whole of the money was not forthcoming from the growers themselves. He thought the hon. member for 'Fitzroy, the hon. member for N ormanby, and other hon. members opposite, whose object was to try to leave the Bill open in such a way that assistance could be obtained in the direction he had n1entioned, woul-d agree with him that this method of doing it was much more satisfaotory than that of admitting " dry " shareholde~s and thus permitting the control of the company by men whoso interests were not quite identical with those of the sugargrowers. The " dry " shareholder might be actuated with the desire to get as large a dividend as possible, and possibly at the expense of the sugar-grower, which was not the object of the Bill. The object of the Bill was, as far as possible, to enable the sugar-grower to meet the almost unparalleled demands which had been made upon him by tho present high rate of wages by giving

Co-operative Sugar [25 NOVEMBE&.] lV arks Bill. 2195

J1im a price for his commoditv which would enable him to pay the nece;;,i'n·y wages and makP a living in the industry, He thought that would be accomplished by the Bill as it now stood. The amendment was one which would be. of material assi,tance, not onlv in -centres where sugar-mills were not already Pstablished, but in other centres where the growers were desirous of taking advantage of the provisions of the me;tsure.

The TREASURER: He had intimated to ihe Committee when the Bill was before them on the last occaswn, that he purposed <·ccepting ·the amendment of the han. member for Bm·rum. He thought it was a sensible amendment, and would make the course easier for those who intended to go in for mills.

Mr. :\IcCORMACK (Cairns): He had no objection to the amendment, but he would iike to ask the Treaourer whether he did no! think that there would be a little bit of .unfairness between the shureholdcr who put

something in in cash and the man [4 p.m.] who provided a guarantee of

some hank that it would put up t1t ~ 1noney \Yhen the TruasurBr required it? For instance, the building- of tlw mill mi;:ht ta~.;.e t--n elvt~ 1nonths, and one 1nan n1ight have put £1,000 into it on which he was getting no intere~t during that tirno, ·whereas the other \vas only required to give security that the mane:,· would be forthcoming when c1dled u;JOn. It 1\ould be all right so long as he undertook to call up the whole amount in e•ach case.

The TREASL'RER: He took it that the object of the amendment was to make it <'asy for those "ho had some difficulty in i\nding the money to put into the mill, but ·wha-t: Vi-·as tlH're t{) prevent a man \Vho lw 1.pPnerl to have the cash putting it into the Saving«. Bank and getting his 3 per cent. w!Fn he had no use for it immodiatelv? ThL'ro 1nro many .ways in which he cot;ld u:r-t that 1norwy to earn so1ncthing, and he thought tlH;t he ,,;ou1d lw on exactly the same footing as an~· other shareholder. There would be no desire on the part of the eorporation--the Treasurer---to t.tke advantage of one n1an as against anot-her.

:.\Jr. GRA::\'T (Fitzro1f) was going to bUp

_port the amendment, bocaUR8 it went a little -,.ay to get a mill for Central Queensland, 1vhere the farmers were not as proc,perous .as they wcr<' in the Cairns distrid. But it did not go all the way they wantE'd. They .. /, antf\d ··-dry" shareholders--that. 1vas, n10n who were prepar"-d to put their money in for the good of the district. The co-operativ<> spirit of the Bill oould easily be protected hy restrictions that the "dry" shareholders were not to hold a majority of the .shares or have a controlling interest in the management of the mill, or, as the .hon. member for ::\'ormanby suggeqted, that the company could at any time buy any of the ,,hares, so that the "dry" shareholder would not bA a mpnace to the farmer who cultivated his cane, which was really the object of the han. member for Mirani and the hon. member for Burrum.

Question put and paF~ed. Mr. WELSBY (l!lath11r) moved as an

amendment that the following paragraphs be added to subclause (1) of the clause, on page 5. after line 48-

,, (d) Due provision has been made for ensuring to the owners for the time

being of sugar-works situated in or near the locality specified in the application for the construction or purchase of sugarworks under this A.ct a. continuance, during the period thP sug·ar-works propose-d to be construct0d or purchased shall be Y<'>-ted in the ('orpo1·ation, of all easements, rights of "ay, und other rights and priYilegcs held by them on the thirty-first day of December, one thousand ninc> hundred and fourteen, for tho purposes of any roa·d, tramway, wharf, or other work in connection with the sugar-works.

"(e) Persons to whom one-third of the shares iu the company have b<c~n issued and allotted have entered into an undertaking in the• prescribed form to gr~nt to anv per.·~on. firrn, or cornpany own1ng any sugar-works in ~r ~ear the .locality ~pceilled in the appllcatJOn foe the co!lstruction or purchase of sugar-work~ all ca"ements. rights of way, or other nghts cmd privileges which may be required for the :•m·nose of anv road, tramway, wharf. oi· oth<'r work i~ connection with the su?ur-ovorks so,o\Ynecl by such person, firn1, or company.

He fcl~ ,up: that hon. members on both side· .. c,f th.c Huuse lvlicwd in what they called Brit'.h fair play. The Bill propose_d to g-ive to the mills to be Prected under_ It f'ertain rirrhts ovor en ,,ements and running rights. If they diLl that, they should_ s_urely gin? £''\ if:ting own0rs the ,•.,anle prrvilPgP. He wa .. , indined to think that whc-.n the~went dcoph into the quc,timl, ~h<"Y would find that his amPndmc·nt was fair and teasonable.

Mr. GILLIES (Eaclwm): It was_ quite evident that the leanwd counsel did not addres" hon. mc-.mbers at the bar of tl;e House in vain. Thev could :-.ee <cmbodi"d 111

the amendment practically what he asked _for on behalf of his dicntc. H0 was I'Ot !!'Olllf; to record a silent vote on the Rmendm-.'nl,; he was going to vote against it, beqause they were assured that the Bill was brpught in to rpmedv r,2rtain evils. One ''Iould ima.gine. to hear certain hou. members, that no monopoly did exist. nud that t.h.-re. had nut been a great deal of trouble in t~e past. He maintainocl that thr-re was still a good deal_ of trouble and thct the farmers were b,_,mg robbed' right and left b;..-- the millers. If the millen all em ed then dves to be robbed in thl:ir tnrn bv the rdinrrs. that wuo their funeral. He was th~re to voice the opinions of the gro·., -.o.rs, and hon. membns now had the opportunity of making the Bill of some u-.e to them.

The TREASURER : He did not purpose accepting- the :cmcndment. It Reemed to him that the acceptance of th•~ amendment in the form in which it was drafted would Yery larg·clv be fatal to tho Bill. In eaying- that, h 2 w1;ntcd it to be clearly understood that the Governnwnt. the corporation, or the Trea'.urer, by whatever _name they mig-ht be de3ignated, had no desirC' to do what was an unfair thing to any other bo~y who had spcrrt sums of money in developmg Queensland and he had vet to learn that there was 'anv Act of Parliament in which the Governrnent had sought to do that; and he maintained that the Bill did not in any way Sl'ek to do it. He was prepared to sav that, ohould it be found that there v; as anything in the Bill wi:ic~ _did not give protection to any other mdindual-because he took it that the Government had no

Hon. W. H. Barnes.]

2196 Co-ope;-ative Eugar [ASSE:HELY.] Works Bill,

right to come in and swallow up something without giving equal rights-he should have ' no objection to introducing another Bill dealing with it. It seemed to him that it was outside the scope of the Bill altogefiher and could be very much more conveniently dealt with otherwise than under the Bill.

HaN. R. PHILP (Tou•r,sville) regretted to hear thu announce1nent of the Treasurer. He sought under the Bill to take power to acquire any company's' mill, and also to acqmre running rights over their tramways. The Treasurer >\a" no harm in that. He would like to ask the hon. gentleman whether he knc•w of an0 two miils in Queensland whi0h gave eaeh other such running rights?

J\Ir. FoLEY: There is r.o rea .on why they should not.

HaN. R PHILP: They did not, because it \vas impracticable. ThL·r~ was a notable c•.ne in the Caims district. The illulgrave Mill had a third r:~il over the board's line. lie under;'t"od that they had gi' 011 notice th;,t it !heiSt be remov< .L He believed it hac! not been rcmJvcd vet. Aml in building the tramway., fer "the new Babinda 1Iill, they \Vere runni11g thP. line;;; right alonpide the Government line:', bceau,;o tho Government official~, -,.vho knevil :,'Jincthing of running trains, said it -was quite irnpo-:sible to have an intereht\ngo over th0 liuc:5. If the Gov,•rnmc>lit though! the+, it was much mor..; difficvlt oYer prh·ato line,. He kn:- •·rL~ :rnillt1 r "\Vho h~d flvo lncrHllOtiYC"~ ar:.d thirtv Cl' iort...- trains a Llay-tr:·:lnR run-Eiug dn \ · and nig.ht. "

::.\1r. THEODOEE: 'The :\lo '<mnn :\Iill haw running right,:; over the shire council's trainways.

Has. R. PHILP: It "as the onlv traf!ic in tlu· di·tlit and thn tnunway "as built entirc>ly fui" ::',1bSdJan :\Iill, and nothing elv'. Be~i(L -, thc-re w:1s th;~ t·on.c>idera-i.,ion that tho wageu::; werQ piled up ·vdth ~Uf:,ar-~uu:....• wllil'h \;a..; cvn::Jt -.tutl.v ~pillin~=,· on the linr ,', Ton,; "nd to;~, of it Wl'W picked up i:J a clay. \\"ho woulcl own that c..uw if they hac;l t\.,-o ~c·t~ of pPuple runn_ing '--"" cr the s1,1 line? In the l\L.c~.:n;", df•.tri<'t. and t:lc. 1· (~istr~<'t, and th~- BuJ·;bbcrg di-.-trkr. th::_•rL' -were- hundrL•ds of n1iJes of tr;:;mii.L- b :t h.- did nut knor•; of a ~i1u.rlo ca:3e v,lu)~·e tY-o n1ilh had cqu,d running rights-. lf thY" c ;uld nut do it. how w:\s it pussiblc for new mills to do it?

i\lr. THEODOHE: This amendment propo'"es to a.U~,''~.V running right~•, anyho-~'<-.

HoN. R. PHILP: It ws_, a mi,takc. They should only gt•t an ea',,0n1cnt acn)S~' thP lint'. Gh e tLcn1 b\,,th an easen1ent. Let v_w mill put a line ::tlongside tht' oth2r'·, but do not h•t them work on thr: same tramline. It was nc,t possiblP. Ho hopHl tho Trea,Lrrer would talm the a<h·ic"' of tik Railway De· parh2h'n1- •'i nd ~2ti."fy hih\ .,plf that it was irnpC'''":->i:Jle. Bc,,~dl. t:1at, it \vill hF a dur;f;·e-r h life to ha\·e two •·8t' o[ people workmg the •)no s<cl of lines.

The TREASURER: The hon. member for TowneJville seemed to have forgotten that in another Act they had followed the same practieco. As a matter of fact, there was a clause in the Sugar \Vorks Art which was almost identical with the clause in the Bill, and no exception was taken to it at the time. He could assurp the hon. member for Townsville and the hon. member for Merihyr that therP ,vas no desire to do an injustice to any individual in the community,

[Han. W. H. Barnes.

as the Gover,,mpnt were out to do what was· the fair thing. If they did not do the right thing, they would soon be brought to book.

HaN. R. PHILP: The Trc>asurer forgot that under the Sugar Works Act they we,.e putting up mills in areas where there were no other mills. As far as he knew; no Government mill at the present time inh•rfered with any other mill. This Bill would enable a mill to be erected alc,.rgside an existing mill, and that wa,; whore the trouble would come in.

Mr. McCORMACK: The argument put forward in fayour of the Bill was thac it was going to dPal effectualls with mills that "Were not giving a fair price for their cane, and if the amendment were inserted in the Bill, those mills would be in a Ycry excellent position inde0d; there would be no possible chance of co:npPting with them. If they started a co-operative mill to-morrow with Government aid, but without running rights over othc>r tramways, they could not JlOS3ibly carry on. The icl<'a of thr Bill was that, when a majority of tho grm1 ers in a certain di,·trict decided on a cc•rtain thing, the corvoration should then have running right·~ ovC'r tram\YaJ :s, even if a minority o£ the grov.-ers \verc against it. That ''""' the spirit of the Bill, .1ud if the amendment were inserted in the Bill, there v.·ould be no chance whatcYer of a co-operatiYe co1npany ent(~rin~ into compr-ti~ion "ith the Hambll'don ::\Iiil, ior im-hnce. \YLat chanc-1 wouhi th,"· h.1vc if tlw Hamblrdon Company ~ould pi·evont tlwm from running their trarn;.:; t:ver th2 HamJledon trannvav~,? The hon. nH:·ntl:r'r for 'ToWIL>vill(~ kncvv qliit0

t•ll th::t most mills endeavoured l•) carry thci.f 0ane bv tra:;_n·,vavs and not bv raihvavs. Th~> Babim!'a people. had built a tramw-ay alongside the railwt•.y line to collect cane that rauld b0 C'll'r.cd on th~~ Govc-riJll1Pnt r:1ilw~v. For a n1_;_:~11 GoYe>rnnlent r.1ih\-aY line tc; allow a third rail to be put dowil and allow thP promiscuou:o running of lUll'>

train•· on thnt line v.ould be ridiculous. Under th,, old shire council conditions in Cairm, it v.-as vN·-;- satisfactorY to have theuoe of the bridge• ~vc>r the :Yirilgravc River, but a good deal of the C'lne that had been brought by that tramway line in the past, if the Government refm~d the right t0 run the small engines on that line, would have to come by train.

Hon. R. PHILP: V,'hat about two companics rnnn.ing c~ne trains?

:VIr. McCOR::'11ACK: He did not think it was prcpcscd that two companie> should run ov<:'r the one line. It was impossihle. The idea of the Bill was to prevent the two companies operating. If the circumstancPS ned''3it(tted taking the power under the Bill to build a new mill. it would m~an that the Go\"ernm,ent would ·have to f"lose down the old proprietary mill or purchase it. That was the desirB expressed by members on the Government side-that if the proprietary company Tefuscd to give a fair price for the cane ;; nd they continu<'d that refusal, then the Bill was to enablB the Government to buy the old mill out altogether, with the sanction of Parliament, or else build a new mill in that area, There was no area in Queensland at present supplying one mill that could supply sufficient cane for two mills. and consequently, if the Government erected a new mill in an existing area, and

Go-operative Sugar [23 ~OVE:ItBEB.] Trorks Bill. 2197

the proprietary mill continued to operate, it would be a failure. Either one or the ·other \\ ould be smashed.

HoN. R. PHILP: He did not quite agree with the hon. member f:::r Cairns, as there were districts where three mills \\ere operating. and he did not think the Government were g·oing to put up three mills in the ono distrir t. Each of those mills h:~ d tramways of their own, and if the GovelTa!lent put up a new mill under the Bill to interfere with those three mills, it would be a wrong thing to allow the Govemment 'mill running right, over those three sets of tramway"'. He would say, give th<;m an easement where they "Could put thmr own tramway down, but the Bill gave the Government mill running rights {)Ver the whole of those lines. That was very wrong, and the thing would not work. As the hon. member for Cairns said, it was not possible for any two 'ets of people to work one set of tramlines. It might be pos · sible, perhaps, to say, "After midnight you ean run a train if you like," but no mill could work under those conditions. If a mill was going to do any good, it must"have itc< own tramway lines. He would be willing to give them au P•1sement to() build their own line. and give the otlwr companies easements, too. That would be a fair thing to do, and otherwise they W€'re murting failure at the ,tart.

::\Ir. BOOKER (Wide !Ja;t): There 11 as a feeling in the ·wide Bay sug;n· district that there \vas not sufficient power in the Bauple j\fill to deal '' ith the cane that would bo available next year, if the pre,ent apparent good .~t-ason continnE'd, .and he 'vould ask the Treasurer whether, in the event of a co-ope" a1cive mill being e<;tabli,hed in that rJi,trict. he would gi\·e permis·.ion to the c-o-operative mill to run their .',,·vice -over the existing tramlines in the Baupl<' area.? There \\'as this aspect, too, to be consid0red : The• millowners who had laid down tram]i,ws to connect with their mill•' had incurred .au exjwnditure, at the very least. of £10 an acre. Surelv thee<' was some sense of df'('PlE':V in rer:ognising that YC'Ste:J intel'f'"St J

The millowners had gone to tha.t expense, to ,,onw extent in the intPrc,.!ts of the gro,,·ers tlh·llls<'hT<. because it was a. well-known fact that a tra2nline clkapened the cost of transport and a portion of the 'a viag in the cost of tran>.JOrt w~nt back to tho grower. There v;as no sense of equity or justice~ about the clause, und he intended supporting thP amendment.

The TRE~\S1'RER: The hon. membo'' for \Yide Ba;. had put a qm•otion whieh demanded an a.nswer. The position of the mill to which tho hon. member had s11ecifically referred had been thi·•: For mam v<'ar,,--at anv rate. ·durin.!.( the ]wriod he (J\-lr." Barnes) had been Trea>urer-the greatest difficultv had been <'Xperienccd in getting· sufficient cane for the mill, and tile hon. member wonld remember that at one time he ;Mr. Barnes) d"ited the Bm'.ple district and gave thE' farmt~rs something extra to encourage them to plant new areas, with the view of ·enabling the mill to become self-supporting.

lie thought every member of the [4..30 p.m.] Committee would ~'""adily under-

stand that, if they had to bring "Cane a long distance. ~ome of thE' profits would go as tbe r<'sult of tlw increased cost of haulage. It \~·auld be suicide to put clown . .anoth0r mill at all in the, ca<e lll<'ntioned by

the han. member for '\fide Bay, and he, as Treasurer, would never consent to it.

:Mr. BoOKER: The farmers in the Wide Bay district want it.

The TREASURER: If an application <Ame in from another portion of tile '\Vi·Jo Bay district, and lw thought that there was a living for both mills, then he would grant it; but if he thought the mills were going to com,y,te with each other he \\ould not g::ant it. I-Ie quite a~p·epd with the hon. nlh!Jb'~-·r fc,r Cairns that, if there were tvvo nlill.s. nea1· u:::H:' another~ and neither \'Tas full~ supplied with cane, then the ,(rower '' the ono 1d1o wa"' going to f'affer.

Mr. BooKER' Th0 Lill says that.

'l'lw TRE.i.SFHEE: He could not agree "\'":ith the h,Jn. rnc nber there. Conunon ~~,;;nse n1ust pr0vail before any per1n1s:~~on \Yas given. Tl1e hon. member for '\VJde Bay a! ways displayed common sense and intellibcnce in hi;; argu1nents in the llous(;, and he trusted the hon. member would see the question in that light to-day.

Mr. S'\VAY::'\E (J!£irani) understood the hon. mrmber for M>·rthyr stated he sought to confer the san1e rights upon the existing mills as it was J>ropo-, d to g·ive to mills <'rented und,r the Bill. The amendment endeavoured to go a great de:d further than, any f;O\V(-;'s that WP!'e given ufid{'r the ~ill. HP noticed that th" amendment provided that any per,ons who held one-third of . the shares of the company should enter mto ag-reements with the O\\ ners of existing mills to giye tl1en1 rights of UC('f?S~. 0as,'n1ents~ etc., uneonditionalh. It appeared to him that thi~ agreenwzrt ,,-Ould ha ... ~e to be signed . a_nd there would be no appr·al o,nd no provision for coHlpen"ation or 'lnything of that kind. As showing the difference between the two lJl'O j)o--;als, under the c1 '\use e\~Cr3 a grecment made would hr suhj(o\'t to the conditions laid do\vn in the Public \YorkR Resu!nption Act. Clan'<' 2 of that Act Jll'O\ icled for notice bein.r g·iven in connecti-on with the time and plac~ 'and for objccticm to be taken. Further on there was JHovision to the effect that the rights of those who were affected '"auld be amply protcct0d, hu.t. under the amcndnwnt there was no pronswn of that kind at all. It looked a' if tlw holders of OIH'-third of the "harec; mn't unconditionally sign an agru:";npnt to gj, e away right.., for free acces' and evervthing else without appeal. The amenclm0nt w"cnt further than the Bill prO\ idcd, and would hav~ to l_Je considerably mo·clified. He could not u:nag·me a case such ns tbat nH'ntione·d bv the hon. 1nen1ber for Cairns, whc1•e a mili enected under the Bill could on! v· be built bv crushing an existing mill out of exi:"tence. , He did not think that it would necessarily lead to the extinction of the <'xisting mills at all. becauee there was no dis! rict north of Rockhampton where there was not roon1 for other mills besides those alreadv in existence. The Bill provided facilitfe" for the amalgamation of some of the existing mills. so that if they were g<>tting out of date they could b<• replaced bv mills with modern plant. That would be of grr•at advantage to the growers.

Mr. \VILLIAMS (CharteTB Towers): When the hon. member for Normanby was speaking, he asked if this clause provided for eon· f1seation and the Treasurer said it certainly would n~t. It k·alu•d as i' clause 7 did contain a provision which would lead to confiscation .

.J1r. wnliams.]

2198 Co-operative 8ugar [ASSEMBLY.] Works Bill.

He had great sympathy with the Bill and was inclinud to let it go, if rights of private mills were fairly protected, with the hope that it would be of some service to the sugargrowers. He could agree with the non. member for Cairns that, if they put up a mill near another mill, one of them would go down. If the Government gave the cooperative company power to run their own tramways, then they were going a long way to help them. If there \Vcre avaricious mills which sweated the growers, then the Bill would be very effective in dealing with them: They should not go furthe:e and give thEl co-operative mill running rights over tra~<:s of priYate con1panies in the mannr;r proposed- He did not like the clause o.s it stood, and he did not like the amendment, bcc,cu<,, it went too Ltr. lie '<ou!d be prepared to vote for the elimination of that portion which referred to the acquirement of running rights over trams. That was confiscation, and he was opposed to that. The rights given ·to the co-operators under the Bill were quite ample without giving them this confiscatory power.

)h. C.UXE (!Jou·rn) thought that the rights provided in the clause for co-operati,-e companies were very necessary for their protection, in order that such companies might be established and have a prospect of making a succ•'ss of their enterprise. He knew that ·every effort would b•< made to prevent a co-operative company from being formed. The amendments were too drastic. Thev provided that every man growing cane fo.r one of the established mills was to Be bound for a period of twenty-one years to continue any right which he had alrPady given to the established mill. If another man came along to join with the existing growers in the cooperative enterprise, he had no power to enter into it without tying himself down in this wa\. It had bc('n state•d that there was no JWo~pect of a mill being started in an established cane district under that Bill without closing .an e•,tablished mill. However, take the Lower Burdekin district, for instance. Thor(' were thousands and thou<>ands of ac:-0,; of mao:nificent land in that dif'trict. They had the Kalamia :Hill, the Pioneer ::\1ill, and the Inkcrman Mill there, ctnd there was still a lot of uncultivated land thcri' to provide all the requirements for another m~ll. There was ample room for a mill at Jan-isfield. There was plenty of room in this di,trid for a co-operati,·e mill to bf' c•<tabli,hed. They hud to guard agaimt .any chance of the co-ope"ativc mill becoming other than a eo-operative concern.

Mr. THEODORE: You admit that possibility. 1Ir. CAINE: He admitted there was a possi

bility, but the amendments that had been proposed would remove the possibility as far as possible. He would be prepared to see further safeguards provided. They might provide that tramwa) ri.~~:hts could only be granted to co-operatiye co1npanies under an Order in Council. That "ould prevent any injustice being done to an established company. If there was any que•tion of competition between a private company and a cooperative company, every effort would be made by th•' privatp company to prevent that competition coming into existence or to stamp out this competition. ·what would the co-operative companiPs pay for cane? N aturallv less than the value of the cane. What co~ld the proprietary companies pay? Not for what was in the cane, but .as much

[Mr. Tf,_llimns.

more as thev chose to offer. The di'0et mn>!-he that an:y• Lperson;;; who \VPre not ab""·.olut{~l;_\" tied ,cJown might be YCTY easily wcall(•d away fro1n tlwir 8upport to this co-opf'rativc enrcrprisc. I{j rnight be argurd, '· \Ye are out to give everybody a chance," but the Committc't) voore out to a~sist those 1vho ent0red into the co-operative enterprise. To grunt any such provisions, drastic and unrca 'u:Jnab1e as they '•:Pre, woul-d nwan tlmt. in the first instanc(', they would be crippling· the pro;p<ccts of the canegrov;,-('rs who \\·Pre attcn1pbng to enter into co-operativQ enter1lrisos. There I\ as nl~o ana the:· consideration they had to h'ep in vif'w. and that wns the interest of the Jlart mmer Y;ho had ·'U<'h a y,,ry big interest in tlw mill --the Treasarer-the St•lte. \Yhat becacnc of their security if such a. clau>·J as was suggested was in.serted in the Bill ·: It seemed to him that, with such competition, the growers would have very little hope, and the State would have little or no protection for the money it inveoted in the industry. He submitted that the am0ndments were absolutelv unreasonable, and he felt confident that '.the Committee would not accept thell!.·

Jl.lr. THEODORE said it was now corning to light that there were great diffi,;ulties !n apjllying the principles contained in the Bill to the rPlid of cam-growers, and there was no doubt that those difficulties were being emphnsised bv m>'mbers who objected to the amendment. ·On the face of it, the amendment app<'ared to be all right, a~ ~vhy shc;mld one· company be denied the priVIlege. given to another company? But the opposite argument to that was that one _company against which it was propo_se_d to mt_roduce competition had not been givmg a fan deal to the cane supplier'l, and were in a particularly advantageous position, and consequently it was n0cessary to protect the n':'w company. It might not appear to be qmte fair to the old companv, but, on the other hand, there would not have be<'n any drast~o action taken agwinst the old company If thev had o-ivcn a fair deal to the canegro\vers. lie saw no objection to two companies operating over the same tramway. Both the Mossman Mill Company and the local authority had full running rights over the Port Douglas and Mossman Tramway. The company had three locomotives, and the shire council had two, and they worked toget.her without any difficulty. ~f the Tr_easurer as the corporation, exerCised runnmg right~ over another companv's tramways, hewould also have the opportunity of regulating the traffic as he could not run his locomotives with~ut any regard to the scheduled time of the company; he would simply have to regulate the wh;,le of the traffic over the line, the runnino- rio-hts of which, it was proposed to take m;'er. " It seemed to him that this phase of the question exposed the ":e:tkness of thtl Bill. The idea of co-operation was :, good on(1. hut this way of forcing the principle upon di"tricts where no settled arrano-ement could be arrived at between the c'l.neg~owers and the Colonial Su_gar Refining Company, or some other private ~ompany, was not the right method of straight. ening out the difficplty. It could h~ve been done in a more simple and effectiVe way, but practically the House had ti~d its_clf down to the principle of co-operative mills and the difficulties of this ill-worked-out scheme The hon. member for Burrum was possibl v more interested in this particular phase 'of the question than any other hon. member, because it was more likely to be·

Co-opemtit·e Sugar [25 NOVEMBER.] TV orks Bill. 2199

brought into operation, either fairly or unfairlv, between the companies in his district, and he apparently favoured the amendment; he favoured granting private companies running rights over the tramlines of the new company which might be formed under this Bill. If tho amendment was carried, it would have the effect of destroying the principles of the Bill.

Lieut.-Colonel RANKIN: Don't impute motives to the hon. member for Burrum.

Mr. THEODORE : He did not know that he had imputed any motives, but if he discovered any motives from the hon. member's attitude.- he would have no h0sitation in calling attention to them. The hon. member was in favour of this principle of granting to the old companies the running righb over the new companies' lines.

Lieut.-Colonel RINKI:<i: I am not in favour of this amendment.

Mr. THBODORE: That was what the amendment proposed. Perhaps the hon. member had some way of escaping his obligation.

Lieut.-Colonel RANKIN: You are constantly misrepresenting me.

Mr. THEODORE: The hon. member said he could not see anything unreasonable in givmg to the old companies running rights over the new companies' lines.

Lieut.-Colonel RANKIN: That is quite simple enough, but that is not the amendment.

Mr. THEODORE : Those who had spoken in favour of the amendment said that was all the amendment did-that it gave an old company the same right of easement over land and property owned by others as it was proposed to give to a new company. The amendment would have the effect of destroying the principles of the Bill and making it inoperative, and give advantages to the Colonial Sugar Ref;_ning Compan:y and other companies which had been operating oppressively against the farmer. As they had an advantage now, the competition would not be fair competition.

The TREASURER asked the hon. member for Merthyr to withdraw his amendment. He had stated very clearly that there was not the slightest chance of his accepting it, and he was sure they were all anxious to get on with the Bill. It seE>med to him that while the Government claimed certain running' rights over existing tramlines, it was not 11n unfair proposal that the same rights in regard to those lines should be extended to those who were there before the Government, and that there should be, as the hon. member for Chillagoe had put it, an arrangement which should be satisfactory to both parties. If the hon. member for Merthyr would withdraw his amendment, there was a suggested amendment on tho next page of the Bill which would in some measure meet the view which he had put before the Committee.

Mr. WELSBY: With the consent of the Committee, he would withdraw his amendment.

Amendment withdrawn accordingly. Mr. WELSBY moved the insertion, on page

5, line 56, after the word "to," of "construct or." The clause provided that it should not be lawful to purchase any sugar works under the Act until sanction had been given by both Houses of Parliamrmt. He thought the amendment would greatly improve the BilL A great amount of money might be expended

in building a mill, a<1d the additional words would be a safeguard later on.

The TREASURER wished to briefly say to the hon. member for Merthyr-and he was quite sure the hon. member would at once understand there was no desire to be discourteous to him-that he could not accept the amendment, for the reason that it would mean that proposals would have to be hung up. He did not think thf' amendment was at, all necessary.

HaN. R PHILP said that the Treasurer had no inherent power to construct any miH in Queensland unless he first put a sum on the Estimates and asked the House to pass it.

Mr. THEODORE: It can be done by way of unforeseen expenditurE'.

HaN. R PI-HLP: It had never been. done yet.

Amendment put and negatived. Mr. G IL,LIES moved the insertion after

line 59, on page 5, of the following:-"Provided further that in any case

where it is shown to the satisfaction of the Treasurer that any owner of any proprietary sugar-works is not paying to the suppliers of c~J:ne to such works a price which under the circumstances is a fair and reasonable price, the Treasurer may compulsorily acquire such works from tho owner thereof, and for that purpose the provisions of the Public \Yorks Land Resumption Act of 1906 shall be applicable.

" In estimating the compensation to be paid for such works, consideration shall be given to the then value of such sugarworks, but in no case shall such compensation exceed the sum actually expended on such works after a due allowance for depreciation. Before any such works are compulsorily acquired under this _provision the owner thereof shall be entitled to at' least three months' notice, and during that time he shall have the right to increase the price then paid for cane by him to such price as the Treasurer considers fair and reasonable, and, if he does so, no further proceedings for compulsory purchase ~hall be _taken while tJ:e prices paid by hm1 contmue to be fmr and reasonable."

Th0 objects of the amendment were obvious, a.nd if it "''~' agreed to by the Trea8urer, it would make tiw Bill of some use to the o-rowcr. Thev all realised that the great t'roubJe in th~ :~ugar industry '\as that th~ grow<>r as not getting "-.fair de>;!, and that was borne out hy the endence gnen on the Sugar Co:nmiooion, which showe-d that so far as the pm·cha<e of cane wus concerned there was no competition. :Mr. Knox had said that it was impossible for any competition to exist. 'l'herc should therefore be the power to enable the Trea:mre!', if it _wa,~ shown to him that any pronrietar:· miller was not pa:ving a fair pric~ for the _ca:-'e, to give him throe months'. notice, and If_ m the meantime the miller ~hd not mend his wu~s and undertake to pay the producers a fair and reasonable price for their cane, to s!ep in uncle"' the Pul11ic \Yorks Land ResumptiOn Act of 1906 and take over the works at the cxi,ting value·, It seeme-d to him to be a, fair proposition. bccau'e member:' on both sides had eaid. and hE' agreed with themand he was fortifipd in his statPment by twenh- years' ex:)erience in the industry-

},fr. Gillies.]

2200 Co-operative Sugar [ASSEMBLY.] Works Bill.

thD.t two mills could not prof1tably - be carried on in the same area, so that there was no use in giving the farmer power to start a mill in oppoeition to the Colonial Su'iar Refining t;ompany or soma other po'·H'rful company. The best wo.y was to Jw.Ye the po1.ver to say to tb,_l rniller, ''You

arc not giving the growers a .[5 p.m.] fair price. We give you three

months to do so, and if you do not. WC' will n'sume Your mill at a valuation and let the farnw.rs carry it on." It seemed to Le a common-sense lH'O]lO··al, and he app.··ah•d to the hon. member for Bm·rum and other hon. memhP;·s who had stated that the furmen were not cwtting a fair deal to support the amendment, becau .,e he submittd that the carrying of the Bill without it would be very little use. He submitted that the growers were not getting within 50 per cent. of what tlH'Y •·houl·d be getting, and if .bJn. n1ernberc; 1vere going to do a!lything at all for them, the,· chould acc<:nt the amendmPnt. The verv carrying of the amendment would give them a whip to hold over the !J•,.ldS of the mcllers when theY Were not paying a fair pri<'e for cane. One witness bdore the Sugar Commi,'iion-he thought it was on<> of the big manufacturers at Bundaberg-sa.:J that it cost 16s. to produce a ton of cane. They found tlw.t CYlr. Crawford. in his minorih rc;rort. said that the ayerage price for cane in Queensland was 15s. 4~d. a ton. That being so, they found that the price givPn Wl" le''" than it ab·olut<'ly iook to produce tho <";.me. He was spE>aking on behalf oi the farmers, who wore being crushed, and he appc_t!od to the Com·nitt0e to give power to the Treasurer to l'(ive mills which were not giving a fair price for cane three months in which to m.·nd their wavs, with the alternative of having their mill., r ···mmed. There <'ould be no mornbL\::-, not oven a cit~y rrwmbcr. \i\~ho had naid ·o little attention to the most impm+ant agricultm·al ir:·dustry in Queensland that he could believe that tho grower. were getting a fair r.rice. Thq· W8re told that the Bill was to ta k0 the place of the C'nne Prit•' B0ads Bill, but if it was to .do that. he maintained that it could onlv he bv the acccpt11nce of qlP amendment. "The r'Bport of the Sugar ('(, dmi>~ion fairly reeked with f'videnc·e of the un,atisfactory position of the ·::;rower. He would just give one quotation on that point-

" vYe arrive, then, at the conclusion that, with respect to the general question of an ''-Juit.,hle dis~ribution of profits among the Yarious branches of the sugar indm·try. neither the millers nor the refiners have cau"" for serious complaint. If. as just •;uggested, the miller makes higher nrufits than the refiner. the rPmedv is in the hands of the re.finers. Tho:-- 'fix the• price for raw sugar; and they are in a position to alter the existing sliding scale whenever the:; choose to do so. It i-;, pcrha ns. due to a dee ire to enrol on its side thc milling interest that has dictated the general policy of the Colonial Sugar Refining Company with respPct to the price that it fixes for raw sugar. The millc•rs. with almost una-nimous ,~oi('f', ex~1~ossPd themselves as content with the· L'xisting ecale of prices for ra'\\'" ?tugar. '

"Fnfortunateh·. whPn we come to the growers we find .a YPry diffe;·cnt story.

[.'If r. Gnl·iP.;.

Vi"hile tllP millers and refiners make handsome profits, the profit.. of the gro"\VCl'.::j, as a class, .are quite inadequate."

He appealed to members who claimed ~o be friend, of the farmers to support tl.us amendment. The amendment seemed to ~1m to be most reasonable. 'There was nothmg confiscatory about it. ~e had p~oposed that anv mill to be dealt. w1th under 1t should be tal<en over at its "then value." ';l'ime and again the hon. member for Cairns had pointed out that th~ growers ~or ~he Hambledon Mill had pa1d for that m1ll tw1<;e ovH·, and that it was not yet th.en: property, whilst the . mill on the other side of the fence had pmd •as much as 6". l.,d. P'" ton more for their C•tn.e than t~e Rambledon :Mill. He had thought of gomg further in drafting his amcn~men.t and giving the 'l'l·ca' urer po,,·er to mqmre ~ow far the farmers had been robbed durmg the last four or five wars so that he might give them credit for that m~ll''Y in purchasing the mill, but he had not done so. He contended that the Treasurer should ac,·cpt the amendment.

Mr. E. B. C. CORSER (Jiaryborough): He would like to know whether the amendment came within the scope o+ the Bill. Did it come under th•, mes>.tge from the GoYernor?

The CHAIRMAN: It is my opmwn that the amendment dues not come within the scope of the Bill, and furthermore would invoh-e a further message from the Governor.

:Mr. LENNOX (Hcrbrrt): The me•Jsage thev alreadv had provided that the sum likely to be· required need not be estimated at the time. It might be moderately large, or it might be verv lar<;c. Th'l Treasurer had power to con·truct mills .without consent of ParliamPnt, and he d1d not know that if he wanted to get mgar-works he had to come to Parlianl('nt. Th~~ n10.\sage included the appropriation for both. \Vas the Ch1:irman really serious in holding that the amendment was outside the scope of the Bill?

The TREAS"CRER: Hon. members might have noticed, or might not have .wticed, that a Bill was coming from an<,ther plaee called the Raillo:;s Traction Bill, and an amPndment had been made in it which he "as bound to move at a later ~tage they should disagree from, for the simple reason that there was no me•·sagc which eovned it, although there was also the other reason, that it came from another r:lacc.

Mr. RYAX: That is the main reason. It is a question of privilege.

The TREAS"CRER thought the decision the Chairman had given was absolutely corn,ct.

Mr. McCORMACK: He \"'1S going to move that the Chairman's ruling be disagreed with. The message from the GovPrnor made provision for the purchase of e.xisting mills, and the a.nendment ouly pronded the machinery for bringing abo_ut that pm:chase. Later on in the clau;e 1t was pronded-

" ProYided that it shall not be lawful to purchase ally sugar-works under this Act unlese. or until 'uch purchase has been approved by resolution of both Houses of Parliament."

No expenditure. therefore, could take r: 1ace

Go-operative Sugar [25 XovE~IBER.] Works Bill. 2201

in connection with the amendment unles·· later on it was approved by both Houses of Parliament. It was purely a machinery clause to do the very thing the Bill set out to do-that waR. to purcha,e ><ugar-mills. if necessary. In view of that last paragraph on pa;;:o 5, which he haJ quoted. the amendment iuade no prm·ision for further expenditure, and thnl- Wfli th" objection which the 'Treasurer and th<' Chairman had taken to it.

The, TREASl:RllR: It mdkcs prm·ision for -compubory acquiring.

:Mr. ::\lcCOR::VL\CK: Of course, it did; and -did not the other?

The Tm;.ISP'<I:'l: Xo.

l\Ir. MrCOR::\L\.CK: Of cour-.o. it did; and the same clau-c Mid that thr- Trf'\lsnror-

" n1ay d:ircci~ and enlpo\ver tho t:orporation to construct or purchase."

Surely that was plain enough!

Tho TREASFm:n : The purchase has to be -endorsed by th<> House.

::\Ir. l\IcCOR::\IAUK: The am<>ndment was purely th<: machinery by which tho purchase might be brought about. He could not see anything in the amendment which would <entail a further ch;uge on the public funds. It just said that, prm·ided a c>ertain ('ondition existed, the Treasurer >-hould make provision for compulsory purchasP of that particular mill; but ho· alreadv had power, undc t the clause as it stood,· to purchase. It did nnt say anything about compuhory purchase. The Ron. the :\1inister for Public Instruction di,tinctly told him that pro.-isiun '"as n1ade in anothf'r clause for com~ pubmy purcha·c of a mill, and. if that was

.so, he could not understand how the Chairman ruled the> amendment out of order as bciug not "ithin the seope· of the Bi:l.

The CHAIRMAN: I have ruled it out of order on two points-first, that the amendment is beyond the 'Cope of the Bill, and, further, that it would nece>si•<ttc a further me•.•age from thP Governor.

Mr. LEN?\ON: The point just mentioned by the Chairman was another matter. He understood that the Chftirrnan had ruled ·the amendment out of order because it was not hJVered by the me-,sage from the Governal". The argument of the hon. member for Cairns proved beyond all manner of doubt that the mo'''age was sufficient for the purpose, becau-e ihe Bill provided for the purchase of existing mills and also for the con,truction of new mills, and he -thought, on reconsidering the matter, the ·Chairman might agree to withdraw his ruling. ·whether the amendment gave the

'Treasurer powPr to fix the price of cane was quite a different matter. Surely, as ·the Treasurer had charge of a large number of mills, he ought to be allowed somq 'upervision over the price of cane. He (Mr. Lennon) held in his hand a telegram received to-day from thP ::\lourilyan ::'dill, in which they complained woefull;v of the fact -that in the event of any rise in sugar they would not participate in the increased pricP, simply becaus<:' they were bound under fL

hard and fast ag-rPemPnt to supply cane at a certain price. The Treasurer ought to bP ;able to go to the a.id of such pcopk, and

he was very sotrv, indeed. that an opportunit\ was not gi~·en the Committee to discus' the amendment on its merits.

:Mr. RYAN said he was sorry to have to support the motion that the Chairman's ruling be di,agreed to. There were two reasons apparently for the rulinj5: one was th~t tl_w amendment Wft' out of order because rt drd not come within the •,cope of the mc'oage of His Exc-ellencv the Governor. ftnd. secondly. that it gave· the Treasurer the power of fixing the pri<·•' of cane. _He woul_d deal with the latter Jirst. It drd not gn·e the Trea.-curer anv such power; all it proposed to enact wa~ th,•t under certain circum"tancps the Trca ··urer shall be able to exereif'P the powt'r of con1pul,mry purrhase; those circnn1stance:~ being when he cor.sidered th!' price of cane WfLS not fair and reasonable.

Mr. FORSYTH: He has r:;ot tho power under the Act now.

:\1:'. reaf<;n order.

:\Ir. in the

RYA2'\: That was "-h)- the amcndmf'nt

ull the m01·e >:·as not out of

GRAXT: Compulsory purchac,e is not Bill.

:Mr. RYA::\': \Yhat was the me of tb! Bill if compuLory purch~?e wa~ not in it. Th~t was one cf the ments clauned for the Brll bv the hon. nwmbcr for Burrum, and the hon. member for Ipswich speria.l!y made capital out of tho fact that there was the powC'r of compu!--.ory purc·hase in the Bill. :\row they know there was no such power.

::\Ir. GR.IX'f: \\"h€·re is the power·:

:\lr. RYAN: n~ did not think there was anv such power in tho Bill, but he di,: not thi'nk it would b,, out of order to put the pO\\'C'r thC'rP. Tho a1nend1nent was Hot ou!sidc the message from the Governor, as rt \Yas onl v a machiner,- clause. They could now Jllll:chase mills if bvth parties agre?d, ftnd how could it be out of order to grve a com pulsar.' power of _pure hase? It would not increase the expendrturc of the Treasury bv one shilling. Probably it would decrease if, because they might be sure the purchasing price under compulsory purchase would be smaller than that agreed to by the party. On the question of fixing prices, the amendment did not give tho Treasurer power to fix prices. and, in any case, there was power to fix prices in the Bill. Clftuse 2 of the schedule provided-

,, During the said period, _provided that tho said sugar-cane so dehvered fLS

afore;,aid is, in the opinion of thP corporation or its agent. sound smd fit for manufacture into sugm·, the cane supplier ,.hall sell the same to- the corporation, and subject to this agreement the corpora.t'on ,;h~ll purchase ~he ;ame from the cane suppher at the prtce fixed from time to time by' the corporation."

That was power to fix prices, and it did awav entirelY with the second rea,on for the ruling. The· hon. member for Maryb'?rough had raised the point of order, but rt was within the power of merr•bers of the Committee to ;.a v whether the amendment was in order or ·not. It was in their power _to sav whether they would discuss the ments of the 'amendment or not, and tlw canegrowers might reasonably conclude that tho"' who wanted to shelter them;;olves _behind technicalitics-whi:ch had no foundatwn

Mr. Ryan.]

2202 Co-operative Suvar [ASSEMBLY.} Works Bill.

in this case-were not those who were most interested in their welfare. It was a question of getting down to the merits of the matter--getting do\vn to the marrow of itand it was a striking fad that it should be the hon. member for ::Yla.ryborough who took this technical objedic'1.

11r. GRA="T: As· tht> leader of the Op;>osition ooid, the final court of appeal on a roint of order was the Committee. but he (Mr. Grant) thought the Committee would support the Chairman's ruling. He was not discus><ing the merits of the question, although he had no doubt the hem. memb•·c for Eacham had been round looking for the farmers' votes in that connection.

:Ylr. Rnx: What has that to do with it?

::\Ir. GRA::\'T : It wa· in keeping \Vith the 1P4dcr of the Opposition's innuendo about thP hun. member for ::\Iaryborough. Tho leader oi the Opposition could not get up and make a. speech in disc:~ssing a point of order without trying to belittle some member on the Government side of the House, or tQ·ing to get a little political advantage for himself. The point of order \Vas this: The Bill {lc·alt with pure co-opnration-mills built under the co-operative system, and the a1aendnvmt dealt with proprietary mills.

:Ylr. RYAX : TJ,e Bill deals \Vith proprietary mills.

::\lr. GRAXT: The corporation, or company, under the clause tney were now discu·'<,sing, could construct or purc:i1asB mills, but the a.ment!ment dealt with pconrietarv mills and u systmn of 1Jayment for ca.ne which was outside the scope of the Bill, and he thought the ruling of the Chairman '\'tii.tS a correct one.

:loll-. McComiAOK: Tho miller fixes the price of cane, and, if it is fair and reasonable, he can continue.

::Ylr. GRAKT: Quite so, and if there was a private mill, the owner of that private mill, with the fear of a. eo-operative mill before him, would have to give a reasonable price for his cane.

:Mr. WILLIA:YlS was quite satisfied that the Chairman's ruling on the question of fixing the price of cane \vas a :-'Dund one, and he was also equallv convinced that the leader of the Opposition hod ·drawn a red herring a. ross the trail. The hon. gentleman knew quite well that the clause in the agrPement to which he ref~rrcd did not fix

the price at all, it was really [5.30 p.m.J only lixing what the canegrower

would get on account for the value of his cane. and the r•··,t of the monev went into the price of the mill. It was no"t fixing the price at all, while the amendment distinctly fixed the price. It would really giw• effect in this Bill to the Cane Price Boards Bill, but instead of having a. cane pricP bo,rd, it would make the corporation the board. He was quit0 satisfied that the Chairman's ruling \Yould be supported by thn Co;nmittee.

Mr. :YicCOR11ACK hoped the Chairman would alte~ h;, ruling- on the amendment in spite of what the hon. member had said--

•The CH • ."\:IRi\L\.X :·Order ! The hon. member has ·already spoken.

[.ilfr. Ryan.

Question-That the Chairman's ruling h& disag-ree·d to-put; and the Committee· divided:-

.AYES, 24 . Mr. Adamson .:Ur. Huxhan1

" Barber

" Kirwan

" Bertraru "

Land Bowman

" Larcom be

" Coyne Lennon

" Fihelly

" MaY

" Foley }[cCormack

" Gillay "

O'~'nllivan

" Gillies " Pavne

" Hamilton " Hy'an HarUacre " Theodor£> Hunter

" Winstanley

Tellers: Mr. Coyne and ~Ir. Larcom be.

~OES, 36. Mr. Allan

, Appel Archer Barnes, G. P. Barnes, ·w. H.

, Bell Blair Booker

, Bridges Caine Corser, ll. H. Corser, E. B. C.

, Crawford Denham Forsyth

, Grant Gra:vson Gulln T ellM:B · ::lfr. Archer

Mr. Hod.ge , Kc·sseli. ., Luke

).lackinto~h , , )I aerossan

:Morgan Paget

., Petrie , Philp

Ueut.-Col. Rankin )f r. ~omerset

" ~tevPns " Rwayne , Tolmie ,, \owles , Welsby

White •. Williams

and :xlr. }forgan.

Mr. WELSBY moved the following words. be added after the word " Parliament " on line 59:-

,,No resolution for the purchase of sugar-works under the powers herein contained shall be submitted for the a.pproyal of Parliament unless and until such purchase shall have been mutually a.greed upon between the company and the owner or owners of the sugar-works.,.

He hoped the amendment would be accepted. He thought it would be as well to make it clear in the Bill that those who were desir· ing to buy and those who desired to sell should come to an understanding outside before the matter carne before the House. It might happen that the ma.tter might come before the House, and then one of the parties would not be inclined to go on with the transaction. Then the whole of the time of the House would have been wasted. He thought that the matter should be complPted by the parties outside the House before the question of purchase was brought up in the Chamber. ·

'l'he TREASURER : If he accepted thEl amendment, then the next thing would be for him to suggest that the Bill be thrown out. The. amendment would really defea.t tho purpo'e of the Bill, a.nd he had nv in. tentioll' whatever of accepting it.

Amendment put and negatived.

Mr. THEODORE: Subclause (6) dea.lt with the fixing of wages and salaries. From the way the clause was drafted, it looked as if the corporation-the Trea.surer-wa& exempted from the provisions of the Indus· trial Peace Act. He should not be exempted' from the provisions of that Act a.t all. He· therefore moved the omission of the words-

Co-operative Sugar (25 NOVEMBER.) Works Bill. 2203

" pay to them such salaries, wages, and allowances as the corporation thinks fit,"

with tho view of inserting-" shall pay such salaries and wages as are prescnbed by the awards under the Industrial Peace Act of 1912. The corporation shall be an employer within the meaning of the last-mentioned Act anything in the said Act to the contrar)· notwithstanding."

When they were considerinc- the Industrial Peace Act, . th0y fixed the dofmition of the word " Crown " as follows :-

" ' Crown ' includes any State department and the officers thereof, and the corporation rPspectively of the Railway Commissioner and tho Secretary for Public Instruction in Queensland, and the officers of such corporation respectively, but does not include the corporation of tho ' Tn·~tsurer ' created under or for the purposes of the Sugar \Yorks Guarantee Acts, 1893 to 190o, or the Sugar Works Act of 1911, or any officer of 'uch corporation."

Therefore, tho definition of " Crown " did not include the Trea"urer i" regard to the works mentioned under this Bill. The definition of " Employer'' under tho Industrial Peace Act was-

" 'Employer '-Any person, company, '?orporation, firm .. or association employmg or usually employing one or more employees, whether on behalf of himself or any other person . . . the term does not include tho Crown."

The Industrial Peace Act only exempted the Treasurer so far as tho Sugar Works Acts were concerned, and that was why he wished a stipulation to be made that he was not exempted from this Act so far as the awards ot the Industrial Court were concerned. He was opposed to the Industrial Peace Act when it was introduced.

The TREASt;RER: You received a surprise in connection with the working of that Act.

Mr. 'l.'HEODORE: He receiYed a surpri'Ae that it was introduced and forced through by gag and guillotine. There was a skeleton of a good measure in that Act, and he would rather the employees mentioned in this Bill came under the Industrial Peace Act than trust them to the tende:' mercies of the Treasurer.

Mr. LENNO="' !wped the Treasurer would accept the amendment. The clause provided for the payment of wages under certain industrial awards, and the hon. gentleman could show no reasonable or rational grounds for refusing to accept it. The Industrial Peace Act said that all other employers had to comply with the awards made under that Act.

The CHAIRMAN : Order ! I hope the hon. member will deal with the question now before the Committee.

Mr. LENNON: The Treasurer should not exempt himself from the awards of the Industrial Peace Act, so far as this Act was concerned.

Mr. GILLIES hoped the Treasurer would accept the amendment. There had been a good deal of di"cussion amongst Federal members as to how long the industry was going to be carried on partially by black labour. If the hon. member was wise in his genera-

tion, he would mnke proYision in the Bill, not only that white labour would be employed, but that white labour conditions· would obtain.

The TREASURER: The rat2s to be paid are absolutely prescribed. ·

Mr. GILLIES : Then why not accept thP amendment? If the Treasurer would accept the amendment, he would sit down. He· hoped it would be carried hy the Committee.

Mr. McCORMACK thought the Treasurer ought to accept the amendment. He referred to the Babinda and the South Johnstone sugar mills, and said that, in the interests of the Treasurer, it would be much better if the rates of wages were fixed by the award of the court. There had been some argument up there in connection with wage« already, but there had not been any difficulty, because on every occasion the ruling rate of wages had been paid. But if there was an alteration of a particular award in the engineering or other trades, that might mean an alteration in connection with the engineers engaged on mill construction, because the Goyernment paid different rates in the railway workshops to what people outside paid. These mills were not always going to remain the property of the Crown, and the Treasurer, acting as. the corporation for the time being, should be goyerned by the awards applying to private ~mployers in the industry.

Amendment (Jfr. Theodore's) agreed to.

The TREASL'RER: He had indicated to. tho Committee a little while ago that he was prepared to meet a request which had been made earlier in the discussion, and he wanted to indicate what he proposed to do. On page 6, line 27, subclause (7), he proposed to delete "'for the purposes of this Act," and then on line 41, after " Act," to insert the following :-

" In this subsection the term 'sugarworks ' includes, not only a sugar-works to which this Act applies, but also any sugar-wod<S constructed and worked or propos<cd to be construct2d and worked by any company, or person, or body of persons other than under this Act.

" Provided that in th0 latter case the powers of the corporation under this subsection shall be exercisable only on good cause shown by and as the agent of and at the sole expense of the company, or person, or body or persons concerned."

He would first of all move the deletion on line 27 of " for the purposes of this Act."

Amendment agreed to. The TREASrRER then moved tho in

sertion. aft or '· Act,' • on line 41, of the words h9 had indicated.

:VIr. H YAN \voulcl lilkc some information as to the intention d tl10 amendment. which. was not printed. He had tried to follow the hon. memb ·r when he TC'ad it, but it was somc\vhat difficult. !I<' under"tood that the Treasurer wantul to give private mills the same po-wers as the corporation \vith t('c:;pect to the compu]soJ·y acquisition of land.

The TREASrRER: Not exactly; it is in connection with TUnning right>; over the trams. Brieflv. the position was that it was proposed to gh·e the corporation power to extend to other companies, should they consider it de~irable, running rights and other· powers ovt-r tramlines. &c.

:VIr. REx: To the Colonial Sugar Rc'fining. C<nnpany, for instance.

Hon. W. H. Barnes.]

220-i Co-ope.mt>>·e Sugar [ASSE::\IBLY.] Works Bal.

The TREAS"GRER: Any company. The hon. member was very fond of bringing up the Colonial Sugar Refining Compahy. \Yhat the Govornm<:'nt wantNl was to do an absolutely f1ir thing. He took it that that was the bsencc of true lcO\ernmont-to do the hir thing by every mdividual in the community; :md the amendment was one which coder'i·ed upon the corporation, and upon nc·bod· cle-•. the pow0r t 1 do cPrtain things f:h<)uld : uilicient ground be Rho\Vn for so doin;;.

:".Ir. RYAJ\": J\"o doubt. the anwndment v~Tns 1noved g-; thr• re~ult cf some copf~, l'f'"~lC'0' that had talwn place am:mgst han. members opposite, and he did not think it should be rushed through too quickly. Th,·y "hould haY':' an opportunity of peru,sing the alnendnwnt.

Th0 TREASrRER : I am sure tho Chairman will have no objection to handing the amendment to you.

II:Ir. RYAJ\": All he wanb•d to do was to thorou!!hl0. apprehend the nature of the compromise which had been come to. becaucc he knew something of this kind was advoc-ated b3· the learned counsel who appeared at the bar of the Home.

LiPut.-Colonel RA:\KI:\: Nothing of tho kind.

l\Ir. RYAN: He wa. quite c<·o·tain that the mr.t~f'r ""-'-· fir--t brought up by the learnNl eoumel at tho bar of the House in arguing- for the Colonial Sugar Refining Company. He did not say that. for that reason. it was not right ; it mirl:lt be perfPctly fair and reasonable. The h .. m. membf'l· for Bm-rum also argued that ho was in faycur of an -<.UIH_•ndnH~nt in th:;t dirC'ction, and he took it that this w:.s ,,.,me compro~ mise between the am<-:1dment moved bv the han. member for 1lerthvr and the desi'rc of some hon. members opposite. In view of the fact that the anwndment was moYed so hurricdly, they should have an opportunitv of ]Wrusing it, and tho Chairman might let them tak0 a 'lopv of it during the tea !>our. Having had an opportunity of perusmg the amendment mm·ed bv the TreasurPr before tea, he noticE'd that he had alreadv .s~cured the o1ni:::,hi~n1 of tho words, '' fol· tne purpose·< of tins Act." So tht,t, whatever was to be now inserted. was not for

the purposes of the Act. He [7 p.m.] understood that the purpose of

the Act was to promotE' co-operatiYe ~ugar-n1ills, and so the amend:rlf'nt was for the purpose of doing something for someone other than co-operative mills giving tlw cC>rporation power to give to any c~mpany m· pNson or body of persons other than a co-_operativ~ mil_! company the right to acqmre runmng nghts, provided th<Lt the corp~ration approved. That meant that pow·cr m:ght ?e given to any company which h:td mills m (~ueens.!and to acquire running rights over tramlines running through the property of private individuals, indepelldently of any co-opprative mill. It was a power which did not at present exist. It was a power which was advocated bv learned counsP! when he appeared at the bar of the House; and he had no doubt that this amendment was moved to meet the desire expre:~sed by him on behalf of the Colonial Sugar Refining Company and other millowners. The power was not included in the B_ill when introduced, and it proposed to ,r_rve to the TrC'asurer, who was the corporatwn. power to !!rant to tho Coloniai Sugar

[Hon.. If". H. Ba-rnes.

Refining Company. or any other company which run mills. power to compulsorily acquire running rights over the properties of cancgrowcrs in districts where co-operative mills might not exist at all. It gave the Trea,uror that power all over Queenslandthat wae, if a canegrower was desirous of refusing a lease to the Colonial Sugar Refininu Con1pany, or [\llY other rnill, of run· ning rights over a tramline through his propPrty, the Trea<,urcr could step in and see that the right was givPn compulsorily. There was a provision t 11n.t the powers would not be cxcrcis,;\ ble excPpt on-

'· good cause shown by and as the agent of and at the c•xpenso of the company ~n· person or body of p!"f10llS conecrned."

To t:-!,kC' th:'\ C'Y~!"7lplc of the Colonial Sugar J{efinin:s Uompauy, there \Nas no power wher. by tlw company at pre,ent could deal \Vith the farmer who did not desire to give tlwm running rights throu,;:h his property, but thi:, amendment was intended to give power to the Treasurer to enable the company to compuhoril:; acquire those rights, whethC'r there was a co-operative mill in the district or not. He understood han. memben on the other side to contend that tlw power should only be gi;·en ovPr the lines of co-opcr<ttiYe mills where those eo-operative mills had similar rights over the lines of pri, mills, but the power proposed to be gh·,·n \vas of :wuch ·wider extent. It 'vas co-e.densiYe "ith the boundaries of Queensland. and it w:ts a very strange thin,; that they dwuld introduce into a Bill, which was intendPd t0 curtail the avariciom- propensities of oome millowncrs, the right uf all private mills to compulsorily acquire running rights over priyate prolk)rty in any part of Queensland.

Lieut.-Colonel RANKIX: \Ve do not give thc>•e mill,; th:1t power. V,'e on]y give the corporation that power. ·

J\Ir. RYAN: They gave t'ho corporation po"ilr to allow the Uolonial Sugar Refining Company to get those running rights. whether the owner of the land was willing or not. They had not got that pow<'r now. The amendment took out of the hands <>f the private owner or the canogrower the final right of saying, "Yc"::." or '· Ko '' to the companv.

Lieut.'-Colonel EA:\KI:\: Are not the companies gr<mted the same right with rPspect to . the property of thr· Colonial Sugar Refimng Company'

Mr. RYA:\T: Thev were, in nlaces where co-opprative mi1ls 'were established. At present he supposed there were many miles of tramline construetod bv the Colonial Suo-ar Refining Company and other millowners o~ar private property, and those property owners, canegro\\ers in the main, have one povirer of r<'sirting the company, and that was to refuse them running rights over thoir property. That was the only weapon they had to demand that the company shoul-d pay a fair pricP. for cane, and it now was proposed. at the request of learned counsel on behalf of those companies. to take th-at power out of their hands. He hoped the Committee would go slow in taking away the only method the canegrowers had of effectively re5isting the demands of the monopob. He was surprise-d that the -amendment 'should not have been printed and circulated, so that hon. members would haYe had the onportunity of gaining a thorough grasp of

Co-operative Sugar [25 XovEMBER.] TV orks Bill, 2205

it. Perhaps the Treasurer had some explanation, but it seemed strange to him that it should be moved as quite an inoffensive kind of amendment, wheceas it struck at the rights of every canegrower in Queensland, ae against the Colonial Sugar Refining Colnpan.v or any othct company which owned mil_'s. It was quite outside the object with "hrch they were led to believe they were en.tering upon thi, legislation, and, to his mmd, hon. members would be guilty of a very grave dereliction of dutv to the primary producers unless they sa~· that the amendment W-RS not carried in the form in 'l':hich it had been moved. He knew that the hon. member for Burrum had sai·d ho fa::oured the gi':'ing of similar rights to the pnvato compames as were being ITiven to the co-operative companies. This"' amendment was going further; it would enable the cmnpanics to apply to the Treasurer-even m the ca,;e of districts where no cooperatin' mill (•xisted o~ was proposed-to compel any farmer refusing to submit his c!air:;' to :'rbitration to aq-ree to. get those nghl·S. Tne Treaourer could sterJ 1n and sav t~ the company, "You can haye thc,,e ruri~~Ing righ~~ 1vhcthcr the canegrower wishes L.r or not. . . Th(1Y knew that .-:.nn1e persons •ye_rc of, opmron that the Colonial Sugar Refinmg Company and other largu capitalistic concerns had considerable influence-·-·,o·hich h:<d been ehov.n by the fact that thcv had bn<;fe~ cour,,,,.] to appear at the ba1:- <tnd therr mfluo:.lCc u;ight be u,, rl to convince the. Treasurer that thc~n" was good 1..auso I or tak.mg away the power of the canegro\\ cr to r?s1st the co1~1pany's de1nands lor running r:ghts on" h''" lands. lie aw no ju .~ificatwn for the amendment, and the omission of the word' he had mcnti~ncrl was an ind<'>c of the purport of tlw amenrl 'tlent. 'Ihn cl_~use ~~'it ~,~ov l '.':or the puq}o:-,:'-. of thr, Ac,. 1.1,ot. was wrperl out, and now it \Va ,, !(,r the pUlJJOSe ··of anv C:OLl}Hlll\ ur persou or body oi persons:' ~ther tha~ cooperative companie':.. H<> hor:.<·d the matter :oould be approached in the spirit in which rt "hould l>L :.qmro:cohcd be those \Yho had any real concern fm' tho intere;ts of the sugar-grov1 ers.

The TllEAs.l:RER: .\.pparently the Je,tder of tlw Ovpo,rtwn had oYerlooked the bet that t.mtht the _Bill the corporation could eay that rt wcs gr;n:g to do c.e~tuin thing3 with regard to. tramlme', notwithstanding that it had nothmg to do with tlreir ccmstruction upon payment of com,,ensation. \Vas ther~ anythincr unfaiY--and , hon. m< mbers must r<>rneml:Jer that it "'''H absolutelv in the hands of the Tr"a"m'<T-the corno;ation--to sav whether it should he done or not-in saying to the per.·,,on who had bePn to considembh expense that ho ,,honld have the <,ame right. as the corporation was claiming itself? Surely there wa, not! It was absolutely British fair play.

=¥£:· RYA.N: Then, the original Bill was not Bntrsh fan play?

The 'IREARURER: The hon. member wished to side-track the question. As a ma~t,,r of fact, here was an amendment whrch was absolutely just, and fhere was every re::son for the Committee accepting it, llccamK' rt would make the Bill much mOl'e ~atisfactory than it was when it was intro.duce-d. 'Ihe hon. member was never content

e,:ccpt when by some innuendo he was insinuating that the Government were dominated by some power outside. They were not. The very genesis of the Bill showed, as members of the Committee knew, that the Government had been committed to seeing that the growers got a fair deal, and it did not matter whether it was the Colonial Sugar Refining Company or any other company-if they were not getting <t fair deal, the Go.-ernment were out to say that they should get a fair deal. They had given a lot of time to the measure, and he hoped that tht'y would soon get to a di.-ision on tho question.

:Mr. McCOR::\lACK: He "·as quite satisfied that the learned counsel was correct when lw said if he ;;ot this further amendm<mt lw would ha.ve accomplished the purposes of his brief. Speaking on the question of running ri,,rhts over other people's propert: being granted to private companies, lw aid---

,, If I ran p~t·:ouade the Hou3e to do so. I shall have gone a long way towards <:iie<:ti,ng,the object for which I am here tO-lllgHf.

Tlwro wn, no doubt he would have effcctivelv accor:npli:-;heL. that object if tho nnld;_chu• n: wa3 acC(!l1ted by the Co1nn1ittee. It wa, remark, hle that tho Treamror was prepared to ac~ept the, amend:nent when he knew th ct the whoiP fore,, bPhind the Bill ".ts the ri;;-ht of the corpor,;tion to do thing,, v;hi~~h private conli_Ja.ni£?8 ·yrere not dlm;·ed to do. The hon. gentleman now proposcd to give hi,;sclf the power to cnnble privat o cum}Janies t',} defeat the very princi;Jlc of tho Bill-1'1 ~iye to private companies that were nov~' operating the right to acquire land and to y;•J thrmu;h other poc;;le's prorcrt:. Co1npanies in other industries had r·,·> Bnch right. [!.nd the Con11nitt(''"' was aRkr-it to giye that power to the Tr< •:surer-a IJGY::Pr which sl!ould be onh in thr~ hands of Pc,rliament. \Yhat would the Committee :.<lY iZ h. ti1nbcr euu1pany C'ame along and a.,ked for t'.w ''2·>1C right-that the Treaf:~urer, or son1c other :Ylini--ter, 1vould have thE' pow'_'r to give tbat timber compan~· the right to run it,; hamline throuzh an adjoining pierc (,.f country hPlo~:{inz to so1ne pcr,;on who was not willing to allm\ that tramline to go throuc"'t hio p'o·wr'y, in order to enable the eo1npany to get to f-:D:!ne timber concp,:;,,:on it mrv have (Jn the other sid:J of that property? It would not be permitted for one· moment, and counsel admitt.•d iu his address that ,,ueh n power c\DUld be distinctly unfai1·. In rpcaking of a cancgro,YC'r in the C1:1ild0rs- diPtrict who rpfu .,ed to allow tho cJmpany to build a tramline through his prop<>rtv, c>tmsel ,;;,id- '

"No one can, of coursf', objed to that parti~?ular 01Vlter pu1 ~-uing- the course which seems to him to lw in hi:< own interests. I am not quarrelling with him for that in the sFghtcst degrc'<'. But, Sir, the fad of that refu,,al puts the proprietary mill in an e+tremely awk''ard position."

Admitting that it did put the company in an awkward position, the Treasurer was sec·king power to g·et them out of that awkward position, and it would enable the proprietary mill to more than sue~essfully eompete with any co-operatiYe mill that might be established in that particular area. It had

Mr. McCormack.]

'220(} Co-operative Sugar [ASSE::JIBLY.] Works Bill.

been stated that the Bill was to enable the establishment of mills in new areas. It had also been stated by the Treasurer in his second reading speech that the Bill was to provide for the building of co-operative mills in areas where there was trouble in regard to the price of cane. ="Jow, the only chance the corporation had of -defeating thP private companies was being given away in the amendment.

The TREASURER: \Vhat nonsense you are 'talking! , The power is absolutely in the hands of t.he Treasurer.

::>Ir. }icCOR:YIACK : Of course it was, and that was what he was objecting to: it should be in the hands c5f Parliament, and ,not in the hands of the TrN<surer. The <lnly benefit the grower had got under the Bill '""' that lw would get money lent to him at a rate of interest. and he had also got the power of the Gove1·nment behind him to fight the propriC'tary mill. That was the object of the Bill and was admitted by the Treasurer himself-that the corporation, acting '~s trustee for the co-operative company. would have privileges that the eocpcrative company would not have if the corporation was not behind it. Kow the Trca,.urcr proposed to gin• the same privilege to the private company which he said he was out to compete with. It put the co-operative companv at a disadvantage t:.trai~~ht a·way, becaus0, aB one bon. 1nen1ber -On tlw other side stated, no new company would have the slightc>t chance of competing with an established company. No co-Operative company that might be fornwd under the Bill 'vould have anv chance "·hatever of competing with a Colonial Sugar Refining Company's mill, unlc>< they had power tc do things whi<h the Colonial t-lugar Refining Company's mill had not power to do. The amendment plainly showed that the work of the millers in spending a large ;;urn of monev to brief Nlr. Feez had not been in va.in." The,- had accomplished their purpose, because they wore getting greater pov ers than they hnd bcfoc·c. The a' tcmlmcnt would enable. the Colonial Sch'ar ·R<'fining Cornpany or ,J.ny othe-r ,-,ug:•r company to run their tramline through any )Wr>,on's ground, cv<'n though that person "'as not agreenble. 'l'he:y had not that power before. They W<'re comn<'lled to purchase the land. It was well known that the proprietary company had purchased a piece of land because t.he owner of th"t land was not willing ,hat' the proprie-1 ary mill should take part of hi3 land and run a tramline through it to get to some ''·me on the other side of his farm. Under the amendment the company would have the right, subject to the Trcasurer'R approval, of running a tramline through that man's property. The Trca'>urer would be prepared to admit that pre,;sure would be brought to bear on the matter. They caw an exhibition, of it in connection "ith the central milL There was almost a revolution irl Cairns in order to get the GowrnmPnt to go on with the mill that had been promised by the Government ; and it was quite plain, as one of the, speakers at the deputation had stat<'d, that some great power was operating and holding back the Government from building central mills. If that power was so great then. it might be great in the future, and it was a dangerens power to put in the hands of any Minister. He had some doubt on the pre-

[Mr. McCormack.

sent Government not taking full advantage of the amendment, and when the Bill wao passed allowing the Colonial Sugar Refining Company the right to go through land which to-day they would be compelled to vurchase or make some other arrangement. He hoped the amendment would be de feated.

Mr. THEODORE rose to a point of ordex, aB he thought the amendment was outside the order of leave. A few weeks ago, as recorded in " Votes and Proceedings," the House came to a resolution that it was desirable to introduce a Bill for the establishment and management of co-operative sugar wurb. Now thf• Committee were asked by the Treasurer to pass an amendment inserting a new principle. In order to es,\ablish the principle embodied in the amenrlm•mt, the hon. member would have to come down with a fresh Order of Leave and a new Bill. IIe asked whether the amendment was in order?

J\Ir. HUNTER : The point of order raised b-,· the hon. member for Chillagoe was a very sound one, as the Order of Leave clearly atated what the ambit of the Bill was, and clearlv the amendment was outside the Order of Leave. The hon. member might just as well introduce a clause in the Bill that would allo"\v ~-'<nne coahnine or sa "\VInill to run tramline, through the property of some other ph·son in order to carry out their operation.'. He contended that the Chairman should rul<> the anwndment out of order, for the very good reason that it had no connuction a1 all with the DilL The ::\Iinister was a1deavouring to graft on to tho Bill some for0ign matter.

::\Ir. RYA:r:-. : The point ,,f order raised bv the hon. me,nber for Chillagoe was a verv u:mnd one, as the a::nend;nent contemplated giving the Treasurer power to allow privatP cotnpanies to c~rr.npulsorily aequire right·, ovm· )Jrivate property in the way of running rights over their land, whereas the Order of Leave was clearly to enable the giving of as3ietance for the establishment ~£ eo-operative sugar-n1ilh:, Tho amendmPnt was clearlv outside th0 scope of the Bill, and should 'be ruled out accordingly.

The TREASURER submitted amendment was quite in order. members wonld look at subclause would see that it said-

that the If hon.

(7), they

" For the purposes of this Act the corporation shall huve power from time, to time to take, purchase, contract for the use of, or otherwise provide a.ny land which may be required for the sugaiworks or any railway, tramway, wharf, or oth~r work."

Hon. members opposite had been drawing a red herring across the trail. The corporation

were not losing any of their 1[7.30 p.m.] powers at alL ~s a matter _of

fact, the corporatwn were receiving wider powers if the amendment was carried. The amendment would en<1ble them to carry out the powers they possessed for the purposes of the Act. It should be possible for the oorporaticn, should he so desire it to do· the things asked for in the amendm'ent, seeing that there were sufficient safeguards.

Mr. LENNON hoped the Chairman would not be led away by the argument of the

Co-operative Sugar [25 NOVE)1BER,] Works Bdl_ 2207

'Treasurer. The amendment should be ruled out of order, because it was outside the scope of the BilL If they passed the amendment, the Treasurer would have the power to grant a right to every person who owned a tramline to run over any land contrary to the wishes of the owner of that land, and he could carry coal, bricks, or anything else on that tramline. When the Bill was first introduced, it was never contemplated for a moment that thev were going to give such sweeping power t~ the Treasurer for the time being to grant running rights or tramways to people all over Queensland.

Mr. PAYNE (.lfitchell): There was no ,doubt that the amendment was outside the scope of the BilL If they carried the amend·

, ment, then the Treasurer could take to himself the po,ver of saying "YeF" or "No" to any company that wanted to run a tramline over any private la.nd in Queensland. That was too grea.t a. power to give to any Treasurer. He had seen amendments ruled <>Ut of order which were more rPlative to the title of the Bill than this amendment was.

The CHAIRMAN : l think the amendment is in order, as it is within the scope of the BilL

Mr. THEODORE: He was compelled to move that the Chairmftn's ruling be disagreed to. He did not want to delay the passage of the Bill, but it was such a lopsided decision that he wished to protest against it. They could see by the phraseology of the amendment that it was outside the scope of the Bill, especially where it said-

" In this subsection the term ' Sugarworks' includes not only a sugar-works to which this Act applies, but also any sugar-work' constructed and worked or propo:i,Bd to be constructed and worked by any company or persJn or body of persons other than under this Act."

That indicated something that was not contemplated when the Bill was first introduced. It was quite obvious to even a purblind observer that the amendment should be ruled out of order. 'l'he Chairman himself had ruled out of order amendments which members endeavoured to insert in a Bill on the ground that it was extraneous matter.

Mr. HUNTER supported the motion to disagree with the Chairman's ruling. The amendment was clearly outside the order of leave, as han. members could see by reading it. 'l'he object of the Bill was to give power to sugar-growers to form themselves into a <Jorporation for their protection against the very cla~s of people whom the Treasurer wanted to now bring in. 'When the Bill was introduced, it was said to be in the interests of the sugar-growers and not in the intere;;ts of the sugar manufacturing companies. According to the Chairman's ruling, they were now introducing matter altogether foreign to the order of leave. If the amendment were carried, it would take away the one piece of artillery which the sugar-growers held against these companies. The Q.hairman's ruling was altogether irregular, and inconsistent with former rulings that had been given in the Committee.

Mr. GILLIES protested against the Chairman's ruling. The greatest difficulty had been

experienced in introducing the system of cooperation in Queensland, because the proprietarv interests, were up against it. If the amendment were carried, they might just as well throw the Bill into the waste paper basket at once. He had refreshed his memory by reading the speech made by learned counsel, and it was evident that this was the very thing that learned counsel wanted. Did not learned counsel ask for "British fair play " ? Did he not ask for his clients to be given the same opportunity as was given to co-opeMtors under the Bill'! The title of the Bill should be altered to read, "A Bill to throw dust in the eyes of the farmers." There was no doubt that if the present Treasurer got power under the amendment now proposed to deal with proprietary mills in the same way as co-operative mills, so far as running rights were concerned, they knew what the effect would be so far as the farmers were concerned. The Bill would be of no use to the farmers at alL The Bill was to deal with circumstances that did not exist in any other industry in Queensland. There was no competition so far as the sale of cane was concerned. Those circumstances did not apply to the dairying industry, tho maize-growing industry, or the cheese-making industry, where tho farmers sought to establish co-operative concerns themselves. They were dealing with a set of circumstances peculiar to the sugar industry, where they had a monopoly so far as the purchasp of cane and refining were concerned. They wanted the Government to give the co-operators an opportunity of competing successfully with the exi,ting monopolists. If they introduced the amendment now, then all the time spent in discussing the Bill had been wasted.

Mr. LE~XON : This Bill was brought in as a co-operative measure, and members on both sides of the House in fayour of co·operation thought the Bill would give justice to th,e sugar-growers, as it would enable them to start mills of their own to deal with their own cane and have the same rights as the proprietary mills had at the present time. 'l'he one point made by learned counsel at the bar of the House was that the proprietary mills should be placed on the same footing as the mills established under this Act. If the amendment were passed, the proprietary mills could snap their fingers at the BilL He never thought that the Bill would do anything for tho farmers where proprietary · mills were established, and he was now satisfied that the Bill was worthless. He hoped that the Chairman would consider what had been said on both sides and rule the amendment out of order, as it was outside the scope of the BilL

Question-That the disagreed to-put; divided:-

Chairman's ruling be and the Committee

AYES, 22. Mr. Adamson

Bertram Bowman

, Coyne , Fihe!ly , Foley ,, Gillies , Hamilton

Hardacre Hunter

,, Huxham Tellers: Mr.

Mr. Kirwan I,and

,, Larcombe ,, Lennon ,, McCormack , Murphy , O'Sullivan , Payna , Ryan

Theodore ,. Winstanley

Huxham and Mr. Winstanley.

Mr. Lennon.]


NoEs, 32. Mr. Allan

, Appel , Archer ,., Barnes, G. P. , Barnes, W. H. , Bell , Booke1 , Bouchard , Bridges , Caine , Cor1:1er, B. H. , Corser, E. B. C. , Crawford , Denhain , Forsyth , Grayoon

.Mr. Ouun , Hodge , Kessf:ll , Luke , Mackintnah , :Morgan , Paget , Petrie

Lieut.·Col. Rankin Mr. ~omerset

., ~trvens ,_ Swayne , Tolmie , Trout ,. Vowleb ., Welsby

Tellers: Mr. Bell and Mr. B. H. Corser.

PAIRS.

-";yes-Mr. Ba~ber, ::I:Ir. Gilday, and }Ir. )lay. Noes-Mr. \Vh1te, Mr. Macro\",f\an, and :Jir. Blair.

Re>ulved in the negative.

:.Vlr .. P A Y:'i'E : The Bill provided for the estaLhohmor~t and management of mgar;vorks, >:nd rt appeared to him that the time na·d arnvcd when the Committee should d<> something in a practical way to a .. ,ist the s~:tgar-gro\ver, 'vho was. in .a diffcrt~nt positiOn to <my other pnmary ·producer. If the an1cndrnent . 'vas carried, the sugargrower would be m a worse position than he ''i" h'forc the introduction of the Bill. \\by f,]wuld the tnne of the Committee be \Y~~~ed on. propo_..;als which tvere going to as" 1st c~rtam soctwns of the community, and nC'utrahse the b~nefit of the :nPt"tsure. \Yhv shouL:l a rnan, for in::,tancf' owninO' a sugar ~~rrn, be subjected to rno;.e string{ at laws:; tnan a man who had a wheat farm? The aruvadln"nt \vould gh.~e the Troasuro.r the power to allo•:c ~he mana;ser of a proprietary coElpany to 1JUild a trarn\Yay \vhcrever lH\ liked to _any yart of a ougar farm, and if it w<J.s carrrcd rt would mean that tlwre would ncn·r he n co-o1_1erativo mill built ·:,yhere t?ere "·as a proprietary mill at the pre""ent tm:e. The corner party, the membe,., of whrch prof<''"'ed to represent the "'ugar farmers, said that it was possible, under the amendment, for the Bill to come into effect where there ';Yere already proprietary raills, and whHe thf' cane farmer was now getting a ba·d <lee- l. It was onlv last war that the sugar-"\\orkers \YOre on strike~ at Ma,:.okay, and some of them said that thev 1vould mther bnrn their cane th<J.n allow 'anvbodv to rob them of the fruit£ of their toil, and yet the "Treasurer moved this amendment which made it impossible for farmers wh~ were growinp; cane for a proprietary mill to ktke advantage of tho measure. There was onl:v one \Vay of helping the sug~r fanner, nne! that was b:v establishing cane price 1J?al'ds to enable him to get a fair price for hJB cane. He hoped the amendment would not be carriPd, and that the representatives of the farming district0, would show some backbone and vote against it. There was no doubt that 11r. Feez, the learned counsel who appeared at the bar of the House had succeeded in gettinp; the Governme~t to <lCcep~ an amendm~nt to protect the large propn:tar:v comp_ames in Queensland which were mterested m sugar-growing. He did not knuw what the representatives of the sng-ar district• were going to do in this matter. He remembered the hon. member for Burrum saying some time ago that the sugar-growers were in such a bad position

[Mr. Payne.

that they could not afford to have meat on: th~ir own tables, simply because they had t<> allow meat for the men who \\ere working for them. He was satisfied that the Bill was a pure sham.

Lieut.-Colonel RA:'i'KI:'i' : He had listened to the pathetic appeal of the hon. member "'· ho had just resumed his seat on behalf of the sugar-growers, but ho might point ont that the han. member and those sitting beside him h<J.d during the afternoon, and on prevwus occaswns, dono their level best to prevent tha~ rel~ef being giwn to the sugm-grow('rs a> winch they stood so mnch m need. "When the sugar-growers of the State cume to read the debate, thev would be a_ble to see from the attitude ~of hon. members opposite exactly what their feelings were towards the sugar-growers; they would 'ee that hou. nwmbers opposite had p\actically exhau,ted all the means at fheir dispwml to prevent the paR>age of a muasure ~vl1lich. thc•y know was going to prove the t<a.~.v"hon of the s.ugar-grov:er. l-Ion. nH'mbers on the Govenauent side had been silent n<,\ because they had not the whorewithai to reply to tho extraordinary stateu.ents ernanating frorn tbe other r::ide but becau:-)~1 they ',tern -vdlliLg to ·o.uffur a 'gond dot1l if the~ conld secure the relief which '-S~:s necessary. The amendment would have tho effect of dealing Nlt justice all round. Ile recoo-';ised th;,t the spirit <;>f f~ir play did ngt lm~ very much exprCb;'lOll m the minds and acrwns of hon. members oppositP but it found exm'<''"•'ion on his '"ide. rt' ·did not 1natter ·\v,hcther it \vas the sug-.1r-grower, the fm~ar-'-" O:::."kcr, or tho sugur-n1iller thev bcliev( d in g~ving t\vcTy rnan a 's~Lir "cleal. The,· had not tlw distorh'd ,,, n",: of justico '' itl~ vdnch hon. 1nmnber''' OlJP'-""'·ite invari~bl,: took up th_o came of au;c particular ,Joey of men or 1ndustrv. Th~~v V>'f'nt ri~ht t~> th<• ro?t of it and ~trove t'o give what tne: eon.1dored to bo a Jlt'fectl.v fair do"l.

On th? second reading of the Bill [8 p.m.] he pom•ed. out that he felt they

had a plam duly in the directiC!n oi' giving r,quJ l rights to proprietary n:rlls and to co-operative mills ,o far as thPir tranr:'.ay.0~ \Yerc c~,ncr;rnrd. He had no·u gone had;;: on hj,._ orJinion one dngle bit. lie had nc't. as he wu..; lll: ;repre,,,ented in a '< JH'ech rna tie a little earlier in the day by ;lw de; ''l!:V le:l~or of the Oppoeition, exp . .:·cs:·wd hnn~ul.f 1n favour of. giYing greater nghts or pnvllege'• to propnt:tary <.:oncerns, or of a,_f','"f)i.ing an amf'nd <DPnt V' hich he did not consider W<<' " fair amendment; but wlwn an <J.mcndment <" .. \me along such as that pro pa"c•l hy tho Trea.mrer, o-ivino- equal rights to all parties, then they stood ~n solid p;ronnd. They took up position now uno' ailabk bPcauBe o£ its justice, not 111erelv to one party, but to e>erybody. A p;ood deal of non."''nse had heen talked bv hon. ml'Inbe<7 opposite. Somenne had said that they mig-ht just as well rive the right to the corporation to issue timber licenseil. But that was not the purpose of the Bill.· Thev were <l.e<aling with sugar and not with timher. What was it the:v sought to do in this particular amendment? In the clause as it stood, subclamo (7) read as follows:-

" The corporation shall have power from tim<' to time to take, purchase, contract for the nso of, or otherwise provide any land which may be required"

Oo-operatwe Sugar [25 NovEl\IBER.] Works Bill. 2209

for the sugar-works or any railway, tramway, wharf, or other work, and to acquire running rights over any tramway."

Xow they sought to enlarg·e the powers of the corporation. They sought to give the corporation power to acquire sugar-works under the Act, but also, where necessary, to acquire rights over proprietary iines if, perchance, it 1night be nec{'ssary in the interests of tlw grower' themsclveo. That was the phase of the question which had been overlooked bY han. members opposite, becau•e those rights might be just as necessary in the int<>rests of the ;:rowers as for the compan~-. As a matter ·:Jf fact, he could point out nurnerous instancGs where it V\'as necessary that these rigl1ts should be acquired for the proprietary companies in the interests of tlw growers themselves. V\'hat was it that the grower had suffc>red from so much in days gone by ? It had bc>en to a large extent the absence of competition for his cane. Surc>ly hon. members must admit that the widn the.· could make the market for his canP, the -more mills which thev could give access to a n1an's caJ~e. the p:rea'ter "\Voulod be his chance of obtaining a better price. IIon. memburs \n·re (·:juallv wide of the mark when they told them· that no such powers ':Yel~e confPrrL\d ou anybody elf_c. );light he. Just r(>fc>r hon. me"nhPrs to a Dill which pas•,·d th-at Lhambcr during the current session, the Ruilless Tract;vn Dill ? .\nv con~~tructing authority brought into being under that Act was to have the following po,Yer----

Tho CILI.TRi.\lAX: Ord0r 1 I mmt ask the hon. memlwr ~o k"' ·' to the amendment.

Lie 1t.-Colmwl RA:\KIX: He thought that he \"1 as ju~tjfiPd in l'("·plying to statc1nents made> by memben on the other side during the diwJu>'ion, and it must be quite within the Chairman's knGwledge that hon. members opposite had "taied that no other authoritico had ever bc0 n granted these powers, v .. hereas he could prove absolntelv that thoro was nothing whatever now] in them. ·what about the pov, ers under tho Hailwavs and Tramways Act and under the Gas Con1pany's Act? \'i'hat about tho special powers given under the Railless Traction Dill? He was only sorry that the Chairman would not allow him to quote the different powers given in such Act', poweB infinitely wider than those sought to be gi\ m in this si1nple amendment. And vet hon. members on the other cide had the audacitv-the cool effrontery-to g·et up and cay th~tt they were seeking to introduce smnc>thing that had never been dono before. He only nwntioned that to show how much relianc<J could be pl1-o2d on the statements of the Oppo.oition. They w<>rc· Sl'eking to do a fair clc>al alike to tho co-opcr ... dive mills and io any mills owned by proprietary companies. It had been stated that a great injuetice was going to be done to the sugar-grower bect..tl~\; tho corporation or the 'l'reasnrcr, who, after all, was final arbiter on matters of that kind, took some rights or privileges through a man's farm for the purpose of enabling a tramline to be con,tructed. Speak0rs had all along forgotten to realise that steps in that direction had to be taken under the Public Works Land Resumption Act. But even apart from that, he submitted that ab,olute power was vested in the corporation itself sufficient to safeguard them in every

1914-6 v

possible way. Much as were necessary the rights which they sought to take for the cooperative company, those of them who believed in justice and fairness should have no hesitation at all in placing the same rights and the same privileges within the power of attainment of every proprietary mill operating in the same locality. He hoped that the amendment would go through with as little delay as po.,,iblc. They were anxious to sec the Bill become law and translated into action.

:Mr. HY AN: The hon. member had come right out in his true colours. They had an example of his somersaulting on the sugar question on the Cane Price Boards Bill. He only wished to mention that to show how far they could rely up;:>n his sincerity in the remarks that had just £alien from him. He preferred to facD his remarks and deal with them as thev wore actuallv stated by him. He was proceeding to cite certain powers alrc>ady possessed by certain companies, ineluding the Tramways Company under t~e Railways and Tramways Act, and certam powers under the Gas Compan: 's Act, and the Hailless Traction BilL He proceeded to ask why private compames such as the Colonial Sugar Relining Company, or any other companie,, running sugar-mills in Queensland should not have similar pow<;rs given to them. He would pomt out to h1m that he was laying down a proposition whi<;h, to his mind, w:.ts quite noveL It was qmte a differc>nt propo·~ition to g·ive power to a company whose businC'•'< would be to lay down lines without acquiring land over which to run thorn from giving po\ver to a coin~ pany, -whose n1ain business \VU"- s.ugar-Iuilling, to run their lines over the land o£ the cane.rrowc>rs. Tho han. memb' r proceeded to say that tho'o rights would he given subject to th.' prm-isions of the Public \Yorks Land R· o~mption Act-that was to say, an arbitration board would be appointed to fix tho price to be paid for the mnning right over tho tramwav, and that. therefore, it was a reasonable thing. That ·,yas how he understood the han. member.

Lieut.-C'olonel HAXKIN: That is one of the safeguards.

:Mr. RYAK: Bnt what c.lff·Q'U"rd has a sngar-gr<r_-; er again;:,t a priYate C0111pany Y Xon0. If h0 could my h tho private company, '·You v:ill be able to buy my ean~, but I want pcwer to fix the prJ(_,, of rt jusL the 'i<lme as you can fix the price of yomrunning rights." it would be a fair deal, but wh;;t the han. membN' proposed to do ".1·s to giv0 th,, companies ,,, hieh now had tramline-< in various parts of Queensland the right to con1pulsorilv aC'quirc running rights oYPr tramline:J, ct-rllpulf:orjly resun1ing tho land, and lea,-ing the canegrmver absolutely at the mercy of the priv<d<' mill with re~ard to hir·. cane. If there would b .. · an arbitration bo1rd un•.1er tho Pub lie l'i' arks Land Resumption Act, those privileges or those rights wonlcl only bo fixed by the board at what was a roa<onable price to pay br them a-; such. But at the present time there was no pov. cr in the hands of the grower by whieh ln; could C'ompel a company to give a fair price for cane. And thcc canegrower could say, "If you don't pay me a reasonable price for my cane, I will give you no running rights." It wa' the basis of fixing up an · agrecnwnt.

Lieut.-Colonel RANKIX: That is quite out of date now.

Jlr. Ryan.]


:Mr. HYAK: It wao not out uf date. An illustration w~s given o£ a canegrowcr in tllP Isis district, who refused the company the right to run thPir trucks oyer hie land, and, when he took that stand, the company had no power to compel him to give th<:>rn hi' land. That statement was made at the bar of th<> House.

Lieut.-ColonPl R.'XKIX: That he refused to sign an agrePment; not that lw refused to give the-n1 running rig·hh.

::\Ir. RYAK: lie refused to sign that agreement bcc:msP thP.• would not give him <>nough for hi,; can<'; he refused to sign .the ag-reen1ent to give them running rights. If the amendnwnt were carried, the Colonial Sugar R<>fiHing Company could snap their fingers at that farmecr and say. ·· \Ve don't care \Yh('ther you agrcp or not; we will apply to the Tr,asurer and he will compel you to ·ell us running righh." That was an instancp cited by the learned counsel at the bar of the Hon··<'. It was rather int<:>resting, as it showl'd the <•bject ith which the amendmpnt ,,, as brought in. Learned counsel in hi< address said-

.. So1nt) of these ri~hts of way, or ease mcnt•, arc shortly fallin.~· in. and, of cour.:-~eJ a very rnatcrial question arises, in the intPr·. •ts of that mill, as to whether the e right, are to be renewed. The proprietors of this mill are informed that tho owm'r of one farm through whose land tlw ~ramlin<> rnn''· and tho use of whcoe land is absolutelv "''>entia! to the mill for the purpose ;lf reaching the supply of canp OYPr a large area, has refused, or is about to refuse, to renew tlw mi]l'f; right ,,f way ovPr his land, as that pnrticular cnvner is clp,.irou·· of having a c~-Dperath-e mill "''tablished in the di"tric~. :::\o onf.l f'...tr. of C'"Jurse, objc~t to thJ.t particular owner pursuing the course whir·h seems to him best in his own interest,, and i am not quarrelling with him for that in the slighk't degr<>e; but. Sir. the diu t of that rl'fuc-al of h'> put tlw propriPtary mill in an oxtrenwly a·wkward position. The owner of the proprietary mill, having no similar powPr to that which is prop<>,ed to be gi,-en to the eo-operative mill under this Bill-that is, of acquiring portion of that grower's land for the purpose of his tramline-is pr-rforce compelled to lo,o tho \Yholc of his supplies from all the growers who arc :.ituated bPvond the farm belongin!; to thi ~ particula1: grower. The:, are bloch·d from getting his cane, because he \\ on·t sell it, and thev arc blocked from getting all the cane \vhich is gro"\vn on areas beyond him. because he won't allmv the propri0tarv mill to pa>s a tramline over his particular area. And, gentlemen, this is a particularlY haroh c::tse, because this is done notwith ,tanding- the fact that in a number of ca',es these mc'n arc farming lands acquired by the millowner and r<>oold to the farmers for thp purpose of securing supplies of cane for hi:J milL"

A paid advocate admitted to the bar of the House by hon. members opposite, and he was pleading for the Colonial Sugar Refining· Company. That was his argument which was adopted by the hon. member fo{· Bm·rurn. Learned counsel had not pleaded in vain. The hon. member had listened to the voice of the siren and he was carried away; he 6-:.W~ way on what was one of

[Mr. Ryar:..

the main objects for which learned counsel qtme here. He (Mr. Ryan) was quite satisfied that the learned counsel earned that fC>e, and it was a pretty big fee, too. It was worth the fee for what he had done, and he (:VIr. Hyan) congratulated him on having introduced into the Bill something that was not in it when it carne to the House and was never intended to be in it; something that was argued against bv the Treasurer, and which emanated froni the reprec,entative of the millowners and the Colonial Sugar Refming Company at the bar of the House. There was no doubt they had succeeded, but what he (Mr. Ryan) was concerned about was that the sugar-growers of Queensland should know that they had succoeded.

Question-That tho words proposed to be inserted (Jir. 11'. H. Barnes's amrndment in clause 7) be so inserted---put; and the Committee divided:-

AYES, 34. Mr. Allan , Appel

Archer Barnes, G. P. Barnes, W. H. Bebhington Bell

, Blair Booker Bouchard

, Bridges Caine Coro;n· B. H. Corser, E. B. C. Crawford Denham Forsyth

:Ur. Grayson Gunn

, Hodge ,, Ke-~sell

Luh , :1lackintosh , }forgan , I'aget , Petrie

Lieut.-Col. Hankin :Mr .. Somerset

S"t::'VPllS ., ~waynr

Tolmie Trout Vowles Wt•!sby

Tellers: :lfr. Kessell and :Ur. :Uorgan.

Mr. Adamson BPrtram

,, BovYman Coyne Fihcllv

,, Foley~ Gillies Hamilton Hardacre Hunter

,. Huxham

1'ellers: Mr.

NOEO:, 22. :Mr. K1rwan

Adamson

"

,,

and

PAIRS.

Land. l.arC'ombC' Lennon )JcCormnek 1furph~· O'Sullil;an PaTll"' n~·~"~~ Tlteodore \Yinstanlr-y

1Ir. Lareombe.

Ave.,-1\fr. White and ilfr. :II:,cro~sen. Noes-::\Ir. Barber and Mr. Gilday.

Resolved in the affirmative. Clause, as amended, put and passed. Postponed clause 13 put and passed.

The House resumed. The CH.URM.'.!i' reported the Bill with amendments.

CoNSIDERATION 01!' BILL.

The TREASURER: I beg to move that the Bill, as amended, be now taken into consideration.

Mr. THEODORE: A ,ertain amendment was introduced in Committee in this Bill which I contend is clearly out of order, and I desire to raise a point of order for you, Mr. Speaker, to settle. I think the amendment should not have been inserted in Committee without an instruction from the House, because it sought to introduce a clea~ly novel principle and irrelevant and foreign to the principle of the Bill, and it was not com-

Rockhampton to [25 NoVEl\IBER.] Alton D01cns Railway. 2211

J.lNcnt for the Committee to insert such an a1nencln1Cnt, exC'ept by instrurtion fron1, the House. The anwndnwnt sought to extend tlw principles and objects of the Bill in a way not compt'tent for the Committee to deal with. ·The ]Joint of order is that the ,a.n1enchuent SC'eks to introdtu .. >t' a ne"\v ~·nd novel prin<:iple into the Bill 'uch as was not authorised by tho Order of Leave.

The SPEAKER : The hon. member may not debate the matter.

::\Ir. THEODORE: The amendment was dearly outside the scope of the Order of Leave and I ask your ruling on the matter.

The SPEAKER: \Vas this point raised in Committee?

Mr. THEODORE: Yes. The SPEAKER : The Speaker never re

vie>vs the Chairman's ruling. The Chairman has as full power in Committee as the Speaker has in the House to decide all questions as they arise. The proper course for the hon. member for Chillagoe to pursuo in regard to this matter would be to give contingent notice of motion upon the order for the third reading of the Bill being called, and raise his point of order then.

Question put and pa•·"Cd. The third reading- of the Bill was made an

Order of the Day for to-morrow.

ROCKHA::YIPTO?\ TO ALTON DO\VNS RAILWAY.

APrROVAL oF PLAN, Erc.-Co~DIITTF:B.

Tlw SECRETARY FOR RAIL\YAYS: I beg to move-

" 1. That the: Hou:.e apprvves of tho plan, section, and book of reference of tho propo,cd extension from Rockhampton to Alton Downs, in length 17 miles 40 chains.

"2. That the plan, section, and book of reference !Jc forwarded to the Legislative Council for thPir aj.proval bv mr,,sage in tho usual form." '

The propoe.al I am now plac:ing befor., the Committee is an agricultural line 1 unning from Rockhampton to Alton Downs, a distan<·.' of 17~ miles, through closely-.settled

country for the whole distance. [8.30 p.m.] By the Commissioner's report it

will be se0n that part of the diqtance is flooded country, which, I presume, will not materially interfere with the working of the line when it is construrtod. At the terminus there is a very large agricultural population, but it is rather too far awav from the market to cn<cble the farmers to have their product" carried in promptly. Beyond thr• terminus there are a large number of settlers in the scrub country, which they are opening up. They are extrhnely good settlm·s, I had the pleasure nf visiting the locality some months ago, and closely inquired into the L :mditions of those who desired this railwav to be built. ThcsL' settlers are as quickly 'and as busily as possible falling the scrub, making homes for themselves, planting maiz<> in some directions, and artificial grasses in others.

'The Rhodes grass planted there is doing excellently. The district carrieq a large number of stock. ana the settlers are going in for dairying. I do not think this proposal needs much discussion. For quite a number of years the settlers of Alton Downs itself, and

between there and Rockhampton, have been asking for this raihvay. They haVL' stated they are quite willing to bear their share of any responsibility that falls on tlwir shoulders.

Mr. KIRWAK: Have vou ever n.et anvbodv who told you the line" would not pay, £rod, the start?

The SECRETARY FOR RAIL\YAYS: Yes; I must give credit to somP deputation• who said that their lines would not pay from the start, but they said they would pay indirectly, because the railway freights WE'r'' mnch lee• than the road carriage. The Commissioner's report is a very short one. He states that the line traverses what maY he regarded as the •uburbs of Rockhampton tc, Lion C'rh)k. Then for a distance of 4 mileo the route is subject to flood. He poinb; ont that there are a fc'w miles of flats which at pr~><·nt are only used for grazing purposes. \Vhcn I went over that part of tho country my't'lf, I thought it could very profitably be put under cultivdion. At present it is not Leing put to the best me.

Mr. ::\1ACKIKTOSH: Are they growing pric k1y pear?

Tlw SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: ~o;· I mn:<t gi><' them credit for that. The n·eus of land there are kept very clean, so far :l'3 pcilr is concerned. The Co1nmissioner says that there is little cultivation just now. but if the rainfall is suffici•'nt and railway facilities are afforded, larger areas will be placrd under cultiYation. The Commie,;ioner esiimah•,; that the re.•nmption required will be about 100 acres. The cost of the line is e time ted at .£60.227. or about £3,4-H per mile. The interest ;c.t 3 per Cl'nt. on the capital inYested will be .£1.807 JJc•r annum. The Commissioner cltimatf''' that the revenue derived from the line after its 'omplcti,'n will be .£4.550. The expenditure, allowing for a tri->Yef'klv serYice to the terminus and two, trains per day over the suburban area, is set down at .£3.542, giving a net revenu0 of £1.008, which is equal to £1 13s. 6d, p•:r cent. on the capital inve,terl. The dpfteit will therefore be about .£800 per annum. The Commi,·c,ioner makes the following recommendation:-

"I do not anticipate that this line will be a paying proposition from the start, but. as it will open up a considerable area of Crown Iande. and make availablc the rich agricultural country which is traversed by the line, furth···r settlement will be encourag0d; and. as the majority of those ,;·ithin thf' benefited area have expn''·sed their willingness to meet any deficits. I recommend that the line he built."

I _,ent to this di·.ctrid to Yalue the proposition frf~ln a rlo~,:r f..''ttlf'Ulent point of view. and also to sec what they were doing there. I m 'dt' the clocf'st inquirico at the Lands Departn1ent, bec-aus0 \YE' vr,• desirous of buil<lin:r railwaYs that will open up Crown landl as well a' scn·ing those who are alreadv settled on the bnd. I do not think that 'A:e should de':<1iP our attention entirclv to the opE'ning up of Crown lands, but where there are distric+s scttlcd for a number of vears, thev should also haYe railwa<c faciEtie,. This line runs thJ-ough a closely settled district, and it will ahc1 open up a largo area of Crown land.

J\1r. i\lcRPHY: How far are these· farmer£ from a railvmy?

lion. W. T. Paget.]

2212 Rockhampton to [ASSE:.\IBLY.] Alton Dou·ns Raihcay.

ThP SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: Seventeen to 20 miles.

:Ylr. BERTRA~!: \Vhcn do vou anticipate this railway will be completed 'I

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: It is impossible to sav that. All we are concerned ~bout now is getting the approval of the !me, and the Government will give considPration to the completion of the line a~ a~ ear!y a date as possible. The railway distl'lct mclucles 340 square miles. The freehold comprisPs 120 square miles, and in agricultural and prickly-pear selections there are 40 square miles. There are alienated or. in process of alienation, 160 squar~ mrles, <'qual to 102,400 acre:;. There are 180 square• miles of Crown land, equal to 115,200 acres. I recen-ed maps and plans from the Lands DPpartmcnt. and thev showPd that largp areas of Crc;wn lands 'wC'l'e availabln within rPasonablC' distancP of the terrninu~ of tl;<' proposPd line. In making the railway d1stncts, the offic0rs of the department aet in as reasonable and as equitable a manner a.s possible. But if it is found, in course of tmw. that othPr areas should be included !n the railway district, or that areas arc mcluc!Pd "hich should not be indudcd then. under the new Hailwavs Act the railw;tv dis~ triet {'llll b0 altPrL\d a>cordi~Igly. "

~Ir. ARCHER (Xormnni>!J): "\s some 15 nul<•,, ?f the proposed railway pas'''"' through the ~ormanby electorate, it will not be ont 0.1 place for HlP to addrpss a fc'v remark: tu the Ccmmitt: <'. \Yhilst I happPn to be th<' l'l'PN":entativ<' of the :::\ormanbv t•lef'roratp at the pl'{'"cnt tin1e. I n1av saV that tl_!E' l_ate rpsiwct ed Gcorgl' Fox fOught for t

1h1; !nw for many years pa,t. (Hear.

hea~· .) 'lha: mc0t,ss has at length bPen EH~hlPYC'd Ill ::C('Urillg the line is lllOl'C due to l\lr. George Fox than anv other man. Tlw l\Iinister, in introducing~ this railwav to tlw CormnittPL', has done ,.uch full justiee to the mattPr that lw has [pft n•rv Ji+t1

:' t 1 L ' :•:c:d b,· ,.n-: ct h:·r !Jlf'mhcr o'f tlw Commith,P. l ~houl<l likP. h<,wever. to drav:· attention to one or two points -which I thmk ar<> n"( elpm•lv brouc;ht forth in the report •d1ieh h<> h: . .< touehed upon. In tlu fir'·"l place. the di"trict of .A..lton Dol_rns. into w~lich thi~ rapwa~'" run~, is the olde,st farn1ing seLtled chstri< t m Central Queensland. It runs fur OOllll' 20 or 25 miles bevond Rockh:nnpton, ov<'I' beautiful open do"'ns countrv and I think ~ am right in saying that it ·i~ the. flrot portwn of Central Qneenol8nd in 1.vhwh .~ugar ~.v;::s gro,vn .. at the old Pandora plantatic"l. It was aho grown at Yeppoon.

Thc> S:crRET.\RY l'OR RuLww~: They built a sugar-null and forgot to get water.

::\1r. ARCHER : As the :Ylinist< r points out, it wa-· not a success at that time b~ rea 'On of the fact that thov failed to ge't wat2r. There is another point _which is, perhaps, not ver:; clearly shown m the report, and which is accountable to a verv gyeat Pxtent for the fact that those rP~)10nS!ble for the con.struction. of our raiLs ays have now seen fit to brmg this proposal before the House. ·within the last few voars such attPntion has been directed to settle: ment on scrub lands as has altoo-ether altered certain of our districts. U ntit' the last few years, the mixed farmer or dairyman in the Central district rarefullv avoided scrub land, and went on the fore:,t flats but lat-N>rly that has been entirely alt~red, and there has bPen a rush for scrub areas. Sur-

flfon. W. T. Paget.

rounding the Alton Downs country thPl'l' are· very large areas of scrub land, ')Ver which I had the pleasure of accompanyino- the Minister, and which I believe he will bear· 1ne out in saying is to a great extent o£ first-class quality. I cannot dPfinitely state the area of that scrub land, but I believe it amounts to ov ,•r 100.000 acres. It is already being settled, and the original settlers, have waited long nnd ratientlv for railwav communication, and others also, who have since gone into that 'crnb. Tlw settlement of th€' country is being retarded by the lack of railway communication. vVe all know what it is to endeavour to bring chaff, hay, and other produce over black soil plains for· 15 or 20 miles. It is not a payable proposition, as my friend, the hon. mPmber for Pittsworth, will bear me out in saying. Thc>refore, not only from tho point of view of advantage to the country. bllt from thepoint of view of justice to the settlers who have been deh·ing along there for c,o many years, I commend this proposed Bill to th'o· House. \Vith regard to the benefited area. comprised in the Bill, as th,, Minister has saicl, certain reprcsentatjons haYo been n1ad0, but it i' not d,,,,irable or necessary to press that matter at the present tinw. Those who· raised the objection have arrreed with that. aspect of the mattPI'. It has been pointed out to them, tlL"Dugh the ~viinister, that. there is an opportunity, within two month.of the publication of the intention to proc,,ed with this railway, to 'lodge objections with r0gard to the area. and the ::\Iinist€'1" will tlwn make further inquiries and cometo a decision as to whether anv alteration should be mack. ThPrefore, the· people concer!ll·d mao;- be quite satisfred that tlwl' will get justice· in this matter. I am not 'going, to debin the Hou,;e anv furtlwr. I fl'lt it was due that. on this· Gcrasion, referpnce shollld be made to the !ale l\lr. George Fox, vvho fought th,• battle for so manv vPars for thi'' I\, ih ay, and I. can only r·a~: that I heartilY wish that he co,Jlc! have lwc'l hPre to oPe· the mccess of his dforls. CHnr, hc•ar !)

:\lr. ,\DA:\ISOX (Tor/.11 unptcn): I haye gr( 1Jlc,~~:;nre in supportint, thi~ raih'\ a~Y, and I '>. i::-h to cougratul1te the J\Iinister in briw;iwr it forward. It ha3 l1een askcol for for a long tit,"'. ancl it .,._ill n1ePt the longf(,lt '' .tn': <Jf a nun1:~ •r of the Y0l'Y dc,lf?rving s ·it krs in that cL:,t\'ict. I would like to pay my tribute to the late :\h. Georg<' Fox, '' ho workL l for thi,, rail" av and ad, o< J.ted it for a nun1ber of ;.-:car~. ~I also r0,·ognic:e that the pres< 11t nwmbor for ::\ormctnby, while IF• ha~ iwPn in the IL1u~P, has sought to clo all he can [or it. am! the hon. memlH'r for Fitzrov has done tho sum€'. As far as the hon. m0mbcr for Kc.]Jl' I and my,self arp roncc•me'1. v ,' h "e alc;o done the best \Ve can. Thi~ rail" ;:.t"': cc<nnw:r;cf·q fron1 Rockhampton. :cmd fo'r 2 miles passes tllrongh n1~~ c·lcctoratC'. ·when jt gets into tho Fit>''OV electorate. From infonw1tion I have• i·eL"in><l. this line will sene some 400 sett1Prs, sorne of ~,\ hon1 have bPPn th0ro fortlw last t:,irty years. I understand, too, that ~.vlwn the .-.cruh la:n(l:-; are opened up, jnclging hy the number of seitlers tlwt havo ccttlerl at Pin}< Lik sine<' that ,,,,rnb ha·, been opened up, they· will provid<' land for nnothPr 400 01· 500 .-dt!Cl·s, so that at the JHesc•nt time th0re arc something like 2.000· people in the district who will be served by this railway-that is, reckoning five persons,

Rockhampton to [25 NOVEMBER.] Alton DGwn8 Railway. 2213

1to a family. And with another 300 or 400 ;;ettlcrs there will be oYer 4,000 people served by the railway. In this district there are Yt)ry larg-e areas of scrub land of the very Lc>t. quality, ~ueh as the Dalma scrub the Pink Lily scrub, or the scrub that is ne'arest to Y a:,mba. All these scrubs are of really ;rood quality. In the scrub whi0h has been .r\>arcd there is a large amount of Rhodes gra··s plantNl, which has grown luxuriantly, ;and the c.:tttle that are carried on the acrehgi" th0re arc very nnrnerous. Then, thPre is an amount of timber land at the end of the line in the ::Ylorinish countrY, and further a\hl.'", towards Roscwoo.cl, thc.rc is a large ·Itmount of fn,t-cla.~ hardwood timber which <'an be used for building purpose'. and in the construction of bridgr's, and there is any amount of timber suitable for railwav sleepers. The benefitl'<l area has boon r~fnrcd to by the Minister. As thC' Minister kno\v:~. w0 euch l'P{'cived a tPlegT>1trn asking that the bem•fited area should be altere·d, bnt when it was pointed out that the new Railway Dill proYi<lcd f0r tbe altf'ration of the benefited areas from time to time, that o},joction was waiYcd for the time being. I think \Yhat the~· asked was perfectly rightthat the JWoplc shoultl not be in the Xorth Coast. benefited area, which is on the other sidt• of tllP riYPr. It seems foolish that a district which is not benefited bv the ="orth Coast line slnuld bt: in that b~nf'fited area when it will be bcn0fitcd by this line.

The SECllET.\RY FOR RAILWAYH: Is Pink LilY not inclmled in thP city of R0ckh~mptrm 1 ·

::\Ir. ADX:,JSOX: I do not know. I do not lll~Pd to s1y anything n1ore on this matter. The ::Yiinistf'r lms presentf'd a good TP,>ort, and the han. nwmber for J'\ormanby 'has W[J)JlPmcnted it. I b<>liew that this railwa:. will pay from tho beginning. There i~ auother thing vd1ieh needs Inentionlllg, and that is tha-' tlw linP is suitable for sug·ar-growing·. Th0se Rcrub.s \Yill in the fnturP grow a gTc,at d('al of sugar, and tve are lw,>ing· that this line will help some of tho··e "•ttlers who havp been wanting to gcow ougar to do so profitably. because we oug·ht to get a central mill or a co-operative mill in the C'<•ntral district. I have seen Bugar-cane gro1vn there to the extent of 70 <lr 80 tons to the acre. as good as any I have seen in Queensland.

Mr. STEVENS (Ra.1• ;toorl): After the action of tho Secretarv for Railwavs vester'<lay afternoon in flouting th<> opini"on of .the Commissioner as well as the Chi<'f Con,,.tructing Engine<'r and the Chief l\lechanical Engineer. and reeommending the line in direct oppo·,ition to tlwir report. I think it -comes with ill grace from him to quote the reeomn10ndation of th · Commissioner to this ·C'ommitteo as a reason why they should adopt ·this plan. As I said vc,.terdaY, had the Commissioner and thP experts of' the df'partment approYed and recommended the plans then before the Ilouoe, I ·hould haYe supported that proposition, because I haye con· ·-fidc'nce in tho,e officers, and I believe the:y \Yould not recommend anv railwavs to the 'Committee which thev d;d not consider it ·desirable to build. I think that anv line the offic<>rs are not favourable to should ha ye very grave consideration from the Committee before they adopt it. I have absolute eonfideHce in the officers. ancl I in:tc•nd. therefore. to support this line. but

I do not think thC' Sb•retarv for Railways can with good grace giYe the recommendation o£ the Connnib.:;ioner as a rea,,\on 'vhy the line should be adopted.

::\Ir. GRANT: The hon. member for Rose· wood is naturallv a littlo bit annoved that the via recta was carried lasl: night: and he has taken the opportunity of the best line which has been prPsentecl to the Committee of making his protcot. The people of Morinish and AltDn Downs considered that this was a long line that had no turning. They had been working and agitating for this line for twcnty-fiye years to my knowledge. and they began to think they had a long way to go, but at lc>ngth their \Yishc>s have been rc'liieced. The l\IinistPr mad0 a verv informatiYe speech, follow0d by tlw hon. ;:nemb!'r for l'\ormanby and the hon. member for Rockhampton; and, therefore, it is hardly nec•cc'"~.try for me to say much, exc0pt that I have alwavs worked for this line, and I am v0ry glad to ,po the con,ummation of our wishe''· In r!'gard to scrub lands, I do not know that manv membf'rs of the Committee haYe C'onsidP.red the future of these lands. \Vith the present high p1 ice of cattle it will pay a man to go in for cattle-raising on a Y(}rv sn1all acre-a~(C. I have seen a

· 15-acrc paddo<·k on the scrub [9 p.nL] lands 1n C0nt~~a1 Qu<:Pnsland,

after five months of verv drv weather. su,,porting forty-fiye head o( C'attle -that is, thrc<' beasL to the a<T<'. I know one block of scrub land a little beyond the terminus which this linc will SC'rv<'. 50,000 acrPs in ext0nt. with a 1nagnifircnt wat<?-r~ hole, which. I am sure. when the line is completed. will support a very thriving population. It has been sJ.id that sugar can also be g-rown there. I quite agr<>c with that. Almost anvthing can be grown in that scrub land. am!' only for th .. • 'transport difficulty. it would haY<' b!'en settled long ago. I am hopeful that the line will not tPrminate where it is proposed at the prc~<'llt time, but that we will bring all that land under cultivation. I need sav no more than that I am ver~· pleased that' the railway has been introduced, and I have no doubt that the Committee will giye their approYal.

l\lr. LARCOMBE: Like other hon. membPrs who have spoken, I want to voice my pleasure in seeing this long·standing request take form in the motion we are now discussing. The :\linister and variou~ Inembc-rs have all spoken very fully on the possibilities of the district, and I do not think that an~·thing that they haYe said is in .the slight< st dpgree exa.ggPratPd. If anythmg, they have erred on the side of modesty. The land is splendid land and suitable for growing produds of a very varying nature. In addition to the advantages already outlined, I think there is another c-onsideration. and that is that the construction of this line will lead to a big scheme of water conservation and irrigation for the Central district. There are thousands of acres at Alton Dmvns suita.ble for that purpose, and I am certain that after this line has been constructed, within a reasonable period there will be thouAand' of a~res of land put under cultiYation by means of irrigation. This line will enable 'us to increase enormously the wealth production of the State, and also to increasp our population, ,vh:ich is not only nece•~ary for wealth production, but also for the ·defence of this and other Australian States.

Mr. Larcombe.]

2214 Rockhampton, Etc., Railway. [ASSE:'.IBLY.] 1\Iurgon to Proston Railway.

11r. 1fGRPHY (Burkr): I propose to vote for this railway, because I consider that it is worth while the country spending a few thousand pounds to bring about such unanimity amongst the member> representing the Central dio;trict (Laughter.) Why, it has been a regular mutual admiration society! \Vc have had the hon. me:nber for Rockhampton and the hon. member for Fitzroy thawing bouquets aero'"' the Chamber at each a· her. \Ve have had tho hon. member for Normanby and my little friend the hun. membPr for Keppel shaking· hands and singing "\Y0 are all jollv good fellow''·" (Laughter.) And we ha.ve onlv to look at the map hanging at the back o'f the back b, nch to find that thie Central district, like the Darling Downs, ha, taken a very big share of public money for development. (Laughter.) The Co•umissioner is vpr;;· gnard0d about this railway, He doc•s not go into an:, ra p~ur< ~ about it. He doc•s not tell us about all +Jw good countr.1· <•nd the probable settlement and all that -ort of thing t<W h as tlJ•' repre•HJtatins of the district haYc told U3. The Railway Conu:nissioner rec:otnlllPnds this railway to this AssPmbly becausu the people have LUaranteed that_thorc will lw no losc-1, (Laughtt'r.)' That is his rcpCJrt. Here is his recommendation. L'sually a great deal of attention is puid to these rp,~onlnlendation~.

1Ir. RYAX: ="Jot yestorda;·.

Mr. 1H'RPHY: Y0s; a good deal of attention was paid to the recommendation of the Conuni~,"-ioncr in ('onneC'tion with the ra.ilwa~s pa-cscd yestcrdav, The leader of thP Opposition paid a good deal of attention to it. I paid a good dPal of attention to it, and the rccomnl('ndation of the Commissioner was only defeated bv one vot<?. But neither the )..Iinister nor anv of the Central repre,0ntatives han• made 'the slightest referencE' to the report of the Commissioner on this railwav.

The SEr~ETARY FOR RAILWAYS: I beg your pardon.

Mr. Ml'RPHY: The Railwav Commissioner has not told us anything about three cows to the acr<?, about the quantities of Rhodes grass, about the magnificent scrub land, the great natural resources, and opportunity for development. and all that sort of thing. The Railway Commissioner deals with this railway in the following words:-

"I do not anticipate tha! this line will bf' a pa;~·ing proposition from tho start hut, as it will O]lf'n up a consid0rabl~ area of Crown lands, and make available the rich agricultural f'OUnhv which is travt>rsed by the lint'. furthpi· s0ttlenwnt will be encouraged; and, a,< the majority of thos;> within the benefited area have Pxprc,sspd their willingness to me0t anv defieits. I rvcommend that the line be built."

I hope. this lin.e will pay well, but still I am votmg for It, not because of the recommendation of the Commissioner, but because I am so pleased-and I am sure other hon mombers in the Chamber are pleased-that there has I_Jeen such unanimity amongst the repres<?ntahves of the Central district Party politics have been dropped altogether.' There are no party politics amongst members of the Central district when there is a chance of gPtting at the public Treasury. (Laughter.)

Mr: ADA~!SON: There are no party politics m railways.

[11£-r. ~furpliy.

11r. :Yll:RPHY: Ko party politics in raiiways ! That is very evident from the attitudo· that has been assumed bv hon. members tonight. I think that alth'ough we are going to vote for this railway--because we generally do vote for raihvays, because members of Parliament are "jolly good fellow~" and we like to open up the coun~ry, and when we can get the money we hke to borrow as much as we po~esibly can-(laughter)-still I should like to mention that those of us who cannot produce a " bunch " in this House never get any money spent in our district. It is only the Downs bunch, the Central QueC'n,land bunch, and the Maryboroug-h bunch that seem to be able to ra;d the public Treasury. After looking at the map on thewall I think that ;,ll claims for separation for fairer treatment vtmi)lh. \Vh\-. it is a railwav tarantula. 'rhero 8ecm to' be nearlv as many railway legs in the CPntral distriit as th<'re arc on a centipedc--(laughter)-and, like Olivf'r Twist, they arc always crying for more. I know that the hon. member for Fitzroy and his colleagn<''<, the jqlly good fellows who rcprespnf; the Central .district, will prob.J,ly c,oon h0 howling for something in conn0ction with tj:w Dawson Valley. I have no objPction to tlwm g-etting it. I haY8 hN'n ho,,-ling her<' for years, but I haYe not /!Ot a bunch. (Lau~;htN.) I am here ali "on my own" from the Gulf. (Laughter.)

The CHAIRMAN: Order !

Mr. )..Jl'RPHY: Yes. I thin\{ I am out ot order, ::\lr. Chairman. (Laughter.) You want quito a number of supporters in this ChambN to g<'t a rail way. I cannot get any pressure on the GoYernment. You want to have a. bin; crowd represc>nting a district and go to the Cabinet and talk nicely to the Premier, )Wrhaps threaten him sometimes-(l>lughter)just because you want to raid the publio Treasur)·· I hope that this railway will benefit the selectors, that the land will keep three cows to the acre, and that all these sugar-mills will be erected in this district that can grow cane, and that eyerybody will prosper. (Laughter.)

Question put and passed.

The House resumed. The CHAIRMAN reported the resolutions, which were agreed to b_~- the House.

~I"CRGO:'IJ TO PROSTON RAILWAY.

CmnrrTTEE-APPROYAL OF PLAN, ETc.

The SECRETARY FOR RAl:LWAYS, in moving-

" 1. ~I'hat the House approves of the plan, section, antl book of reference of the proposed extension from Murgm1 to· Proston, in length 26 miles 22 chaim; also of proposed branch to \Vindera, in length 11 miles 43 chains.

" 2, That the plan, section, and book of reference be forwarded to the Legislative Council for their approval by Ine-::sagc in tho usual form,"

suid : This proposit.ion is one which will give railwav facilities to a very large number of settlers in new country. Quite a large number CJf immigrants came from the old country and settled right at the tNminus of the proposed Proston Railway.

Murgon to [25 NovE1>1BER.] Proston Railu·av. 2215

At sixtN'n minutes past 9 o' dock, The CCIIAIRl\lAN said: Under Standing

Order :..,.-o. 11, I call upon the hon. member for Leichhardt, :Hr. Hardacre, to reliev•) me in the chair.

Mr. HARDACRE thereupon took the chair. The SECRETARY FOR RAIL\VAYS:

A very fine body of settlers took up a large number of agricultural farm:;, all practically in scrub country, and I think it was about four years ago when they fin,t approached me with the object of giving them railway facilitic3. Of course, it is not poe,ible to always give these facilities QS quic1dy as the House would wish. \Vc have quitt) a number of railway propositions always on our hands, and I very much regret having had to defer placing this proposal till this date. It is a propo .• ition with regard to which we have made \'ery full im·estigations. I have personally been through the district two or three times, and spent seyeral days there each time inquiring into what I consider to be one of the bc••.t railway propositions plac·ed bdore this House. I have no hc,itation in saying that it is an area of country that is not surpassed in Queensland. (Hear, hear !) It is a remarkably fine area of coun· try. and ext<'nds north from the Kilkivan line. The settlers extending out to Preston have fallen large areas of scrub, and have been trying to grow maize for a living, but some of th<''e people have h&d to pay a, much as £1 lOs. a ton to get their maize to tho railway station at Murgon, and that is a condition of things that, if at all pes -ible, we should alter, not only in the interests of the scttlc>rs themseln·,, but in the interests of the State. The total length of this pro· posed line is 37 mile•- 65 chains.

There being considerable conversation between members,

The TF:::MPORARY CHAIH.MA::--J said: I would ask hon. member8 to maintain order, as it is difficult for the Secrctarv for Rail-ways to make himself heard. ,

The SECRETARY FOR R.\IL\VAYS: About 20 mil<'s westerly from thP Preston terminus there is the Boondooma Scrub, and the residents of that scrub last year felled about 5.noo acres and soweu it with Rhodes grass, and they are now tur:qing out very large numbers of fat cattle. I am given to understand that those fat cattle are now travelled to Murgon and trucked from there, but when this railway is completed they will be trucked from some suitable point on the Preston line-at one of the stations very near to the terminus-so that that in itself will be a source of very consid0rable revenue. I ha>e no doubt that these settlerJ who have gone in for clearing scrub lands in such a big way will fefi the whole of the scrub within their areas and sow artificial grasses, which arc proving of very great value indeed. As I have already pointed ont, some of the settlers at Murgon have had to pay £1 lOs. a ton road carriage on their maize, and when this railway is built, the rail carriage would only be 4s. 8d. per ton, so that it will mean a swing of £1 5s. 4d. a ton, and if that maize is railed to the port, it will be charged the through ratP, which is much less. To show .how very rapidly this extremely fe,tile distnct has progrC'ssed during the last threP yE>ars, I have takE'n out the quantiti,,s of agricultural produce. which include~ maize, which was railed from M•trgon. In 1912 ih<' quantity railed was l,tl30 tons, in 1913, 1,952 tons; and in 1914, 4,935

tons; so ·that, in two years the quantity has been nearlv trebled. That sho ,vs that the people who have taken up the'e lands are making the very bt•st me of them, and they are doing very C'xcell~mt work. They not onlY .rrow <'Xeellent m'Lize, but they also grow exc"Cllent potatoes and onio;,, in tho district.

Mr. KIRWAN: \Yhat is the idea of using 61-lb. rails on this line?

The SECRETARY FOR HAlLWAYS: \Ve have a reason for that. In the department it is thought posstble that certain of the lines which we are proposing may be Pxtended in the future, and we have thought it advisable to laY these lines with 61-lb. rails, which will cost more [lf'l' mile than if laid with 42-lb. rails, but we will lay them at the present time with fewer sleepers. It is quite possibfo that this line in the future may be C'xtcndPd. I hav<' looked into. it verv carefullv and ;>Jr. Amo,, the !llSJ1f"'tmg sur~eyor, has' been travelling thro~gh the district with a vi<'W to see whether It would be posoible in the future to profitably extend the line from Proston on to the Gayndah branch in a general northPrly directiona little "est of north· I askNI 2\Ir. Amos to specifically report on a eonne,·tion from \\'inrlera, which is a line towards Coul,tyn Lake', and he reports that tbe c'::mntry, With the exception of a \'ery few milt"•, 1s very excellent country indeed, but the valleys ar<' narrow. If we go somewhat furtlwr west and extend from Preston, we get 'into equally as good country, but 'tlw valleys are not narrow. \Ve would open up much m_ore count~·y by building a line there than If we bt~Ilt it up to Coulston Lakes, . I am not puttmg it forward as a propositiOn at the p_resent time, but just to ;;Jww what we have In. our minds-that is the linking up of these lines, so that, in the futuro, ;t will be poBsible ~o relieve pressure on ihe Korth Coast Railway. Tho Commissioner, iri his report, says-

" A considerable area of land has been cleared and put under culti>ation duri:rg tho last few years, maize. b~ing. the pr_mcipal industry, whilst dairymg IS earned on for some distance out from ::\iurgon,

•' It is proposed to lay this line ~~·ith 61-lb. rails on a formation 14 fe~t wide, with 2,244 sleepers and 880 cubiC yards of ballast per mile.

"Character of country.-For the first 6 miles, ridgy country !wavily timbered with box ironbark, bloodwo0d. and gum is tra ver;ed, ·for the next 5 milts ~ooded rich alluvial black and brown sml ]and is met with· thence to the termmus, where principally basaltic country. obtains, the soil being of !irst-class quahty."

I hav<' traYdled over that c-ountry, and. I consider it to be very excellent country mdeed. \V e ar<' getting away from the scrub& into th<' open country. and bevon~ the proposed tf'rminus at \Vind<'ra thC're IS a large area of Crown land. Th<' cost of ~he two lines is estimated at £207, 715-that IS eqnrd to £5,501 per milo. It m.a:y b~ looked upun a.s being rathPr an expensiYe h';'e for an agi:l· cultural lin<', but I would pm_nt out t)lat Ill basalt scrubs, as agamst or~hnary brigalow and belah , crubs. you arC' m rather undulatin~ countrY. The e'ltimated cost of the ' " Preston branch i,; £5,814 per [9.30 p.m.] mile, .and the \Vindcra branch

is equal to a cost of £4,790 per mile. making an awrage of £5,5mL

Ilon. W. T. PaqPt.]

2210 "1Iurgon to [ASSE:.\IBLY.] Proston Rail/cay.

The interest at 3 per cent. · xm•crcmt, to £6,231 per annum. The Commissioner estimates that th<> revenue will be £9,500 per annun1, allowing for one train each da~ ... for both branchc,, and an exp<>uditure of £6,086. That ]paves a deficit of £3,414, equal to £1 12,. lOci. per annum. The Commis:,iorwr ~ n h;•\ recoinmendation ~ay_5-

" Tlw district lwnefitNl bv thc,c t·,, o raj}1i'.l:'-'~ COYC?l'S an area of ''1,1(;8 5quaro mile•,:; of this 367 ·quare miles arc held .as apTicultural farms and 573 square miles a>' g-razing farms. The ::Yiondure Estate. which is 7 to 15 miln from ::Yiurgon, consi~ts of 22,000 acrPs, and is being cut up into 14\ farms.''

He also states that tlw total numbc1· of cattle w~thin tho railway distri<"t is 31,000. H0 wmds up by saying-

" Althou,;h I do not anticipate that the revenue• derived from these railways v ill for the fir"t few vears be sufficient to pay working r-xpCnses and intP.re,;;t on C'apitaL I seP no reason when the didrict has had the advantage of a railway to open it up, why it should not pro-.e as re1nnncrativ0 a" othC'r railwavB in the sam0 clistriet.'' •

lu connection with this question of Oj)<'ning up thickly sf'ttled district. I would point out tlutt the nilway clistrict c·m·ers 1,108 square milP''· Th<'rC' arc 47 squarP miles of freehold, 320 ,.quare• miles oi' agricultural farms, making 367 mcles alienated. or a ~otal of 234,830 ac·rPs. The Crown lands u1 pastol'al lea~P .. occupation lict~n"e. Yaca.nt rest'l'VPs, and grazmg farm:;, total 741 square J?iles, <'OUal to 474.240 acre'. Although there IS a vt-•ry largL' area of land now under settlement. th~re ar<' llf'arlv 250,000 acres of Crown lantl still ayaiJ!lble for settlement.

Mr. HuN fER: \Vhat io that Crown land goocl for'!

Th<' SECRETARY FOR RAIL"VrAYS: I have just given information as to the quantity of ag1·icultural produce that comes from that district. and the Crown land is similar. I have visited this countrv on several ocea,ions. and I think it is a g·ood railway propositiou. \Yh0n tlw rail wa v is built therP will bP a large ar<'a of countrv close]~ settled. · ·

:\lr. HODGE (~Yanango): It is hartllv necessary for nw to a>3m'e the CommittP'e that I support this railwav. The Minister for R,ailways has go1w so (~xhaustively into the mattN that he has ldt Yerv little for me to say. I think thP :ii.Iiniste1~ has made out a very good case, and all I can sa v in endorsing his remarks is-like the Oh:na:man who wanted to buy wme fish--" !de too me too." I might mention that the sett]pr~ from oversea WC'Pt out into that district for a distance of 40 miles from railwav communication five and a-half vears ago. At that time th<' Lancls D<>partment assured them that tlwy would get a railway, and I am pleased to see that at last their patience IS to be rewarded. I think this railwav will pay <:>qually as well as other railwa vs constructed in that clistrict. \Vhen we take into consideration that the railwav from Kilkivan h> I~ingar'?y and :'\anango' pays 6 per cent., 1t 1s a high recommendation for

[Hon. W. T. Paget.

this line. I do not c•ay that it will pay l'lght from the jump, but I am certain that by the time the railway is constructed we will have 5 acres under cultivation where there is onlY 1 ac·re to-da v. That countrv there will g'row from 70 to' 80 bushel~ of niaize to the aere. It ma v not carrY thr<:><' cows to th0 acre. as the. hon. member for Fitzrov said his f'le<"toratP would do, but it wiil certainly grow over 70 bushels of maize to tlw a<"re, and it will ![row sixt<'<>n row cobs of COl'I1 .

::\lr. B. H. C'OHSER (Bunutt): I do not cx;)<:r>t n1u.'h c~)pO:,;:tion to this raihvav but it is jnst as well to come with our· decks ,1, nul. I am interested in this railway, as it f>:Oes into the Burnett district. lt is a line to a district settlp,j by many farnwrs, and. as member for that district, I considf'r this is ono c' the best railway proposals introduced into this House. This !inc will serve 500 farms at present in existence. Among oth<:>rs. a nuinbPr of farn1ers came fron1 o\·ersea four or fin' year' ago ancl settled at Pros ton. and they have been struggling on th<' land th<'re £Piling _,crubs. making- farms. and educating their childr<'ll. Y o\1 SN' progress on all sides. These people have b<>en sending their goods 40 miles over roads bv wagon at a cost of ls. per bushel, and they ha1 <' Leen waiting patiently fm· u railway to bP pushed out to where they arc. I trust that in all future railway propositions the line will be built lwfore sdtl<>ment. bemuse five y0ars is too long to ke<>p people waiting ior a railway. It is fine country natu:·ally. aEd it i, fin<' becau·-e it is part of the Burnett district. (Laughte,.) The profl"''al to conmct the Pro,.ton line with the Cculston Lakes will come as a pleasant surprise. It ha~ always been unc!f'rstood that the branch from YVindera to the Coulston Lakes ~.vill forn1 thP conncPtion V\~ith the Gayndah lim• at Big-g<>nden. If the Proston eonn0ction is mad e. it will certainh' be the best !inl' in the interests o£ the country. This line will ann0x to Qtwcnsland another larg<' province-a province as large as that which armie' of the world ar" fighting for to-clav. From that small settlement at Pr-o•ton !10 less than twenh·-five sons of the soil went to join the First Expeditionary For·ce. (Hear, hear 1) As showing the health o£ t]l(' district, out of tw<'nty-six who volunteC'red only one was rejected because ho was under age, and tho doctor who examined these m<'ll said thev came from a Yer:v hPalthy dhtriet. That speaks w<>ll for the eharaet<>r of th<' elimat<'. This line will not only opf'n th:tt country. but it will make aYailah!P the Buncloola s~rub of 75,000 acrf'S. Proston Hhodcs gra" eonntry is capabl0 of producing two fat b0ast' p<'r · acr<' per yPar. I coiigratulate the :\Iinister in bringing the line forward, and trust that uther conncdit'"" will b<' made. I do not ad,-ocate this lin<> because it has a guarantee proposal attached to it. I trust to seE' that guaranteP Jnn·ision removed. \V e should remove the guar· antE'e tax from a eli .. trict that desPrYes a railway. because Qu<'ensland will benefit by having prQ.operous settlement in those districts.


The House resumed. C'HAIR~!AN r•·jlortl'd the WE're agr<'ed to.

Tho TE~!PORARY resolutions, which

Eno(Jgera to [25 NovE~IBER,] T .. rror's Creek Railway. 2217

EXOGGERA TO TERROR'S CHEEK RAILWAY.

C'O}D!ITTEE--APPROVAL OF PLAX, Ere.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAY8, J.n nloYing-

" 1. That the Houoe appronc of the plan, ,;cction, a ncl b?ok of l'<'ference of the propcSP(l extension frozn Enoggera to Te,-ror", Creek, in length 24 miles 37 chain~.

.. 2. That the plan, section, an<l book of rufcronce bo for•xardecl to the Leg-islative Council for their approval by InPssage in thu usual fonn,"

~aid : The proposal uow b(· iore the House non. members might think is uot one for the purpo;c• of sening people upou the land, because it i,, eo JH'ar to Brisbane. but this line run" from Enoggera to a settlemeut at T0rror" s Cre(•k, and the hilly country through which it runs is closely settled. I -cannot, as I have with other railwa;r pro· pmals which hanl been put through this eyening. clai1n that \VC are opening up a large area of Crown Janel, because in this instance >Ye are not, but still there is a !itt!<'. The raihnty district comprises about 220 >'quare mil, 'i. There arc 152 square miles oi hechold, Y:hich shows that this locality has been .;loselv settled a long time, and agri.cultural farms· comprise an area of 30 square 1niles. \rhi~h UJ,L~J\:eS .a. total of alienate·d country of 182 f',quaro n1iles. or e]ual to ll.6.·1SO acrPs. The Crown lands <'Dmpriso 35 ·'•.JlWro miles of vacant land, and rc'·,crvos 3 square' Iniles, (~qual to 38 sqnare rnilPs. or an area. of 2',620 acc<>s. Of coun;P, whero J:,.trictil have br··n >•cttled for a number of years and which have been without r:tilway '<'Ol!ll!lunication, it i·· impmsible to always 11avc ithin the r.ailwav district. or within a rc'1sonabh• distance of thf' railway which it is proposed to build, large are1, of Crown lands. but the settlers who have been ,i!esirous of obtaining better rail \Vay colntnunication are deserving of consi·deration. I dare say mo;t han. members are thoroughly well acquainted with the route from Enoggcra to Terror's Creek, and that, eYnn if

· they haye not traYellcd exactly over the ·rout(', they have gone on to tlw route from various points of the North Coast line. There haYo been various propo·;itions for o·ivino· thi2- district raih'\ ay COll1ll1UUication, .~nd 7t£ter very exhaustiv~ inquiry it was thought Letter to propose the extension !rom 1~noggen than to link u:.l from the Xorth Coast RailwaY. for th~ reason that the extension from. Enoggera. although a \"NY

<'XJwn:;ive line. will cut right through the actual settlcnwnt, and giYe faeilitie' to all those' who are c,ettled on the land: whereas 'if a spur line a few miles in length had been run out from a junction on the ="<orth Coast Railway, it would only have t_ouched a par· i:icular area. The country bemg ndgy and hillv. the land under cultivation runs out into Yarious Yallcvs. and bv cutting- through those vallevs WP giYe railway communication to all the 'settlers. There are large quantities of hardwood and pine, and also ·come •cedar. within reach of the proposed line, and. with easy communication, tho timber industry is capable ~f very g1:eat e;.:pans!On. "fhe timlwr industry 1s one »"Inch >nil al:vay~ mak<· a line pav a great deal more qurckly than the settle1;wnt of tlw people, because

largo quantities of timb_er can, be sent over the rail·wav in a short tune. 'Ihen, 1n years to <'Onw, {dlCn the timber gets cut out and settlemc·nt has increased, the people are able to send suflicient produce to make the railway pa.y, Th0 local accsociatio_ns have supplil)d rne with sonw figures r~ connection with fi, ewood. They 6a.) that 111 the Sumford and Samson Yale districts there are about 15.000.000 tons of !irm\ood, ,,-hich is quite u v.JJuabh). a~5t't so near to a city like Brisbane. The firev. oocl depots are no"' rrctting further and further out from Brisbane, ancl I am gin'n to understand that when you get 30 or 35 miles away from the CJty the cani,r::D of firewood becomes rather too heayv to -make it a profttable occupation. ThP'.' trrow all kine~ 'i of crops in the district which ';,ill be s 'rn'd by this r.:rilv. ay. There are lapru arQa-s under hanana:1 in the scrubs. \Yhcu I traycll.cd through the <listrict two ur three Year, ago I was astonished to find such a l~;,ge arPa of excellf'nt scru~ land within such a short distance of Bnshane, a great deal of which was sti_ll in ": state of naturt>. but people \VCrC' carving theu "\vay into it arxl planting large m·eczs of bapanas. It \Yas a profitable crojl, but tho obJectwn thev had ,., as that the l'oad was long ancl H'r\· hilh-. and it took them nearly the wh~le of one ni.rht to tran•l to tlw market in Brisc;ane. and ';. gTeat portion of the next ~lay to get back ag'1i'?, ~o that if. they desired to make two trrps a week rt took a O'reat dPal of the workinp: tin1e, us weli as ;l,'P'>intr titne, to gPt tlwi-r crop to market. At the lm"k of tiL• di"trid th<erc is the Taylor Hang-e. which I should ,ay is second-class grazinp: 1-and. hut it co1;tains very ex~eJre~t an a' of gocd land .. Or c?urR', _farmmg IS

carrirr1 on under d1fficnltws O\VIng to the distanc<' from market. The' road carriage t_o Bric·hanc cu<ts about £2 a ton. There IS

.a. 1.<) rgP huth'r facto~·y Ht Terror's. Creek, 'Yhich has 200 supphers. I am g1ven to understand that a large quantity of sle~pers can b0 got for raihn1y requir_ements. The infom1ation I haYP here I got m July, 1909. Then, were tlwn 10,000 !wad of st{){'k, and an .annual output of 280 tons of butter. There were 4.000 pi~"· and the a'?ount of produce was 2, 700 tons. It was e•,tJmated that there wcrP 250,000 feet of pine ~ent away, and 5 500 000 feet of hardwood, and the standi~rr 'timhei' in thP district which would be tapped bv this railway was estim':ted <;t

· 50,000.000 fflet. If this ra1l way IS

[10 p.m. J constructed, and timber-getters get to work, I ha'"e no doubt

that there will be a large supply of valuable ti1:nber extending oyer rr1any years. Hon. members will notice, if they have been out to Enoggcra of late, that there has hoen quite a large n_umbcr of .residences erected bcvond the termmus. I m1ght say that three or· four years ago I do not think. there we~e Jnore than three or four houses m that district beyond the terminus.

Mr. KIRWAN: The complaint has bN'n that they did not get a good railway service.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILV>AYS: If we extend this line to Terror'~ Creek. and thev can make that a rc,,idenbal quarter the;1 we can gh·c them a very much better scnice. The difliculty ab_out some people is that they want the so~vwe befo;-e there is the h·affic. and we haYe m the Rmlway Department, as the hon, mcm bers knows,

Hon. W. T. Jlaget.l

2218 Enogg:ra to [ASSEMBLY.] Taror's Creek Railu·ay.

to gin~ some consideration to the pockets of the general taxpayer. :\Ir. Pagan, the Deputy Con1missioner, in his report, says-

,, :\lore or !Pss hi!lv countrv is traversed for tlw grP:lter part" of the ,:outc, the soil for the first 8 mik' being poor and stony, but in time will, no doubt, be occupit•d by considerable suburban settlernent."

It mu•t bt• a very hE .'Llthy district-rolling, gra vl'lly country, with excellent drainage, and I have no doubt that it will prove a gTeat bl'n<·iit to tho~,c who desire to get out of the narrow •-treds of the eitv. 11r. Pagan ~0(';; on to dosrribe the counti·y as I han• prar·ticallv '•lid alreadv. The cc"t of the line will be £185,289, which, for a line 24 milc.l and 37 chainc, works out at .£7,563 per mile. That is high. and ti.P reason for that is that we ar'' trying to gh·e facilitit•s to p• opl<> who live in hilly country; and as hon. n101t1bt'r~) kno\.Y, v;;hpn p~ans are approved of railways ;11 countr:: that is flat, we are able to sav that the cost will be colnparatiYely littlt_< whPr"•a,,, v;:hen \Ve get to hilly country, it will be expensive, although that does not ·•.av that it will not proyp <'X<'ePdingly rE'mui:wratiYe to thosP who dcsire this line. Mr. Pagan says-

" The district is not unlike the countrv trun•r.,e<l by thP Dugandan, Craw's Xes£, and Killarn0v line~. the rcyt>nue from whiPh ];.,t yea;. was .£465, £283. and £373 pN mil<-, res[H'dively. The charge; per ton per mile on the 'f<>rror's Creek line will (owing- to the short<>r distance) be ,lightly higher, and aft<'r a few years it ,hould earn as muc·h as oth<'r farming lines. not to speak of the <>xtension of Htburb::m paswng-er traffiP, which is sure to follow the railway. I have set down the earnings at £360 per mile, or .£8,820 per annum."

The Commonwe-alth GovernmE'nt-we haY•' been discussing this matt<'r for quite a long time-have desired that we should extt>nd the line from the Enogg<'ra terminus to the camp. It was pointed out that we could not do th~t without parliamentary sanction, and that It would b<' better to wait for this line. and the Commonwealth Government as payment for 1n taking the line m•ar t~ the rifle rang<', have agr<>•·d to pay £4,000.

:li.Ir. HF:.iTER: That will not entail a deviation later on?

The SECRETARY FOR RAIL"\VAYS: Xo; inste_ud of going direct from the Enoggera ststhon, \'H~ '-"\VeC'p out rather nearer to the rifle range than we otherwise would. So that contribution brings the Post of the line down from .£185,000 odd to .£181 000 odd. The interest expected is £1 6s. lld. That will leave a defiPit on an int<>rest and redPmption charg-e of £5,439 of .£2.996. The Deputv Con1missioncr savs in his recomrnen· dation'__ ·

"A grc,at deal of settlement has taken pia~" all along the route. with the exception of the first few miles, where the Pou~try is poorer, _but it is capable of f',)l1!'trl.Prahlf' 0xpans1on; anrl. aftPr visiting the district, I am satisfied that rail commur:ication would enable a large nopulatwn to make a comfortabl<' liYing-. I was imprec;:,cd with the. f<'rtilitv ~f the soil, and it appeared to me th.at a railway should PonY<>rt. this neighbourhood into a market garden for the metropolis. I do not think it is generally

fllon. rV. T. Paget.

known that therP exists such beautiful sprub country within 20 milh of Brisbane. Although the line may not earn sufficient to pay interest and \vorldng expens<""' for a year ur two, the shortage to be ma~e up by the resicl<>nts will not be nearlv i-uch a heayv burden as thcv arc now 'bearing owing to the want of the line. the <onstruction of which I haYc niuch pleasure in rccon1mending."

That i.; the proposition. I think that, in Yiew of the facts that these settlers have taken up their lands many yl"ar"' ago-I think some uf them have been there for fmiy or fifty ye us. and are •.till out there-and that they are unable to carry out their occupations within a Inea"tuable distance of Brisbane, as tlwy are entitled to, the Committee will be extrPmelv \Yell advised to-accept the propo:•oal. •

:\lr. TR(}CT (Eno(!g~ra): I feel .. ure that hon. mE>mbu·s will not thank me if I take up too muPh of their time at thi--, lute hour o£ the e-\·e.aing, nor do I kno\v that there would be any good purpose .... erved b;~· my doing so. Hon. mPmbers have the report of the Deput,\ 8ommio.sioner, and they ha v<> studied it for themselves, and I know that nothing I could say would influence them in any way. I can bear out what the :\Iini~ter hcts ''lid and wh.t the Deputy Commissionpr has •,aid in regMd to the increa-.e of population of thP suburbs of Enoggrra during the la't few vears. A ma.tter that I think is worth noting is that \vorknll•n's ticket,;, frorn the pre::.ent terminus amount for the week to 1s. 6d., which I think is a goocl deal cheap<>r than ordinary tram travelling. Again. the extension of this line opens up a very larg.> area of land 'uitablP for residential purpose-. ... and I feel confident it will settle a ver:•r large population ancl also will a";ist to make that portion of fhe railway whi<·h is at present in existence pay yery much better than it pays at the prc,.ent time. I might sav that that line \\as a guarant<'<'d line. and that the guarantee has been cleared off. and the line· is now paying handsomely. I do not intend to take up an.v more time of the Committee. I think that the Deputv Commissioncr'e report and the knowledge that hon. members have of the district are sufficient to· justify them in allowing this railway to. pa"os.

Mr. FORSYTH (Jlurrumba): This is a lim• that runs through no fewer than three electorates. It runs through nearly th., wholP of the Enoggera eledorate, and then the Xundah eledorate, and then the electorate that I represent. It has been advocatNl for many. many years. As originally proposed. it was to go from North PinP to Terror's Creek, but the matt0r was considt>red and it was concluded that the best route for all Poncerncd was from Enoggera to Terror's Crel'k. Anybody \\ho has studied the question will know that it passes through first-class land. The Minister has given a great deal of information in regard to this line ancl the possibilities of what it mav give ns later on. Anyone who has tn:vE>lled over th<' route must bP satisfied that it is. a very fine district indeE>d. The business tht'rP is n1ixed dai1~ying. ThPy grow vegetables and potatoes, but the principal businf's,, of course. is dairying. Then there is a VE'l'Y finE' butter factorv at Terror'' Creek, and thrv also have a verv fine sawmill at the same place, which has "been cutting very.

Enoggera, Etc., Railway. [:!G XoVEMBER.] Rockhampton, Etc., Railu·ay. 2219

fine pine and hardwood as well, and when this line is built thev will be able to gt't a very much larger quantity of timber ~han they are able to gPt at thP pres('nt tmH'. K ow they have to go back for about 10 or 12 miles into the ranges, and then, when the timber is cut, they have to bring it into the mill. and frmn there take it another 11 or 12 inil" into 1\;orth Pine. Anybody who has travelled over the route will know that there is some very fine scrub land all along the line. but there i ,, also some verv fine scrub land bevond tlu· terminus, out towards Pacev's Creel~. and that wav. I think the han.' nwmber for the Valle~· has bPcn out there, and he will be able to confirm \Vhat I sav. The line will bo the means of open· ing ~1p a rHy large amount of country and settling V•'r:· many people on the land, and also give thes~ people who have bl'cn there for thir·: 0• or fort~· years a chance of getting the bencfit of taking their goods to market undc•r r.ood condition··· \Ve all knmv \Vhat the early pioneers have done. and I think the least we can do, more particularly in this district which has been "o \vel! opened up. i' to assi"t them with thic r;,j]way. There is no doubt that this line will not pay at first. \Y e do not expect it to pay at first. Very few lines do pay at fint. The Enog· gera line did not pay at firsi, but, as was mentioned b:v the horL member for Enog· gera. an;~·one who has seen thc very large number of buildings that have gone up during the last few years will understand why the line has been paying handf'omely and is no burden on the State. \Ve all know that it is nice, undulating country, splendidly suitable for residences. and I ha vc no doubt that large numbers of people who want to get out into the ccuntry a little and have a good train sen·ice will go out to Enoggera. \Ve all know exactl:v how things are in connection with this line. ]\'" ot onlv is the report a goocl one, but the Depnty, Commissioner states that it gives him much pleasure to recommend this line.

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS: He does not always do that.

Mr. FORSYTH: No, he does not, and the han. member for Burke reminded us of that in connection with another rail way this evening. He says distinctly that he has much pleasure in recommending this railway. We had the Commissioner, Mr. Evans, and others on one of the trips to Terror's Creek, and what struck those who had not seen the country before was that we had such beautiful countrv and such rich countrv so near Brisbane. -Anyone who goes over' the Range will see at a glance what beautiful country it is; and it will make first·class market gardens. There arc some of the finE>st bananas grown there that I have seen in Queensland, and it is absolutely 3urprising to think how little we know about the countrv we live in, and onlv a few miles from Brisbane. I feel that this line will be a good one, and that in a few years' time, when more population goes out there, it will pay and ;,wc the pC'ople a good deal of expunse. It affords me great pleasure to support the railway.


The House resumed. The TEMPORARY CHAJR)f.\N reported that the Committe•.· had co1ne to certain rPsolutions, 'vhicl1 ''>Pre aQ"reed to by the House.

The House adjourned at thirteen minutes past 10 o'clock.

legislative assembly hansard 1914 · queensland . parliamentary debates [hansard] legislative...

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