Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 5 AUGUST 1926

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

108 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Qttestions.

THURSDAY, 5 AUGUST, 1926.

The SPEAKER (Hon. W. Bertram, Jfarer) t-ook t.he chair at 10.30 a.m.

QUESTIONS.

DEFICIT I:-; AcrorxTs OF RAILWAY DEPARTMENT. 1925 26; ORDERS FOR ROLLING-STOCK.

:\1r. KERR (Rnoggera), for Mr. Mooro (A ubign.'l), asked the Secretary for Rail­ways--

" L What wnl;l the deficit 1n thC' accounts of the Railway Department for last financial year?

" 2. What ordprs for locomotive' and other rolling-stock have been placed out­side Queensland during the past twelve n1onths, giving names of contractorB and p.Brticulars of contract in each c::tse ?"

The SECRETARY FOR RAIL\YAYS (l-Ion . .J. Larcombe. Ilcppe/) replied-

.· 1. The difference between earnings and \Vorking oxp0nscs plus interest \Vas approximately £1,790,000. This diffcr­PDco i~ corrunoulv tenned a deficit \Yhoroas it is a stibsldy fron1 the Con­solidated Revenue Fund to stimulate production and settlement. The value of this policy i'. reflected in the fact that the curnulatiYc >Yealth production for the past ten years amounted in value to the enormous sum of £500,000,000 (approximately). The difference between earnings and "\Vorking expenses plus in tore t is not added to the railway debt; it is paid annually as abovcmen­tioncd. From an operating point of Yiew the financial result for the year 1925-26 was the best for nine ·years, with the cxcr,ption of 1924-25-notwithstand­ing the introduction of tho 44-hou-r week, the increase in the basic wage, the effect of the concessions to the pastoral in­dustry, and the phenomenal working expenses incurred through starving stock traffic.

" 2. An emel'gency order for twenty~ five 'C 17' locomotives with Sir '\IV. G. A1·mstrong, \Yhitworth, and Co., Lim­ited, Nm.-castle-on-Tync, England, for £213.500."

TRAFFIC PROSECUTION'S Ix BRISB.\NE.

Mr. KERR (Enoggera) asked the Home Secretary-

.. 1. How many traffic prosecutions were there in Brisbane for t welvo months ended 31st .July, 1926?

"2. \Yill he state the offence' brieflv and show the number convicted in each gronp?

"3. \Yhat amount >Yas collected in fines in th:s connection?"

HoN. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich), for the Home Secretary (Hon . .J. Stopford, .11 aunt Jforgnn), replied-

" 1, 2, and 3. The information is con­tained in the accompanying statement, which I lay upon the table of the House.

WHEAT, FLOUR, HAY, AND CHAFF lMPOR'rED INTO QPEENSLAND VIA \V ALLANGARRA, 1925-26. Mr. G. P. BARNES (lT'anrick) asked the

Secretary for Railway'-" 'What was the number of tons of the

undermentioned commodities imported into Queensland via \Vallangal'ra from 1st July, 1925 to 30th June, 1926--(a) \Vheat; (b) flour; (c) hay; (d) chaff?"

The SECRETARY FOR RAILWAYS (Hon. J. Larcombe, Ileppel) replied-

" (a) Wheat, 13,508 tons; (b) flour, 6.253 tons; (c) and (d) hay, chaff, and agricultural produce, 42,160 tons. The tonnage of hay and chaff is not •recorded eeparately.''

\VHEAT AND FLOC'R Il\!FORTED INTO QUEEN~LAND AT BRISBANE, 1925-1926.

l\ilr. G. P. BARNES (Warwick) asked the Seeretary for Agricultme-

" \Vhat was the number of tons of wheat and flour, respectively, recei-ved per boat at the Port of Brisbane between 1st July, 1925, to 30th June, 1926?"

Questions, [5 AUGCST.] Quest;ons. 109

The SECRETARY FOR AGIUCt:LTURE {Hon. \Y. For~;nn Smith, Jiackay) replied-

" The information is not aYailable. Sinct~ the con::~un1Ina1ioll of ft•deration st.a tist ics of intersta to trade lw YG not heen kopl.''

EXPEKSES AKD COST. lLDIILTOX COLD STORES.

:Ylr. G. P. DAR;\;ES (lVancick)) asked the SPerctary for Agriculture-

·' 1. What is the total amount expended to date on the Hamilton Col·d Storcs­(u) Buildings; (b) machinery?

"2. \Vhat wa•· the 0stimated cost, I'C.spectin•ly, of buildings and machinery?

'· 3. From whom was the machinery purchased·: ·'

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. V\T. Forgan Smith, Mackay) replied­

,, 1. {a) Buildings, £172,318 2s. 4d.; (b) machinery, £94,362 16s. 10d.

" 2. The estimated cost of the buildings was £167.000, and the estimated cost of machinery, including electrical equip­ment, was £92,000.

"3. J. \Vildridge and Sinclair, Lim­ited. J. Hodgkinson and Co., C. W. Pettman. \Vaugh and Josephson, A. Sargeant and Go., Evans, Deakin, and Co., Steel and Co., Limited, and Queensland ='>fachinery Company, Lim­ited."

APPLICATIOKS FOR ADVAKCES FROM AGRICL'LTURAL BANK.

Mr. CORSER (Burnett) asked the Secre­tary for .Agriculture-

" 1. \Vhat was the number of applica­tions received by the Agricultural Bank for advanros during the financial year <'nded 30th June last?

"2. 'The total amount. of adYancos applied for?

" 3. The total amount approved? " "~. rrho total 3ll10Unt actually

advanced? "

The SECRETAHY FOH AGRICULTURE (Hon. \\'. Forg-an Smith, .~Iackap) replied-

" 1. 2,270. " 2. £1,242,060. " 3. £686,872. "4. £469,708 ls. 6d."

ALLEGED TU!PERlKG \\TH BALLOT PAPERS IK NORl\!ANBY ELECTORATE.

Mr. PETERSOX (1Vormanby) asked the Attorney-General-

" 1. Is he aware that at a certain polling bo0th in N'ormanby. after the close of the poll last election, ballot papers wore tampered >vith by unsealing the numbers tbercon for scrutiny?

"2. Has tlw returning officer for Nor­man by submitted a report to his depart­ment concerning same?

"3. If so, what aetion 'does he intend to take?

" 4. Will he la v on the table of the House all ·pa'pers in connection there­with?"

The ATTORNEY GF.NER..\L (Hon. J. Mullan, Flinders) rE'plif'd-

" 1. 2. and 3. The reports disdose that the presiding officer at Comehille, in tlw

="ormaJJb:· electoral district, apparently acting in the honest hut mistaken Yiew of his duties, erroneously broke open the sealed corner of the ballot papers (num­bering sixty-two papers) to satisfy him­self that such ballot papers bore a ballot number. The returning officer (who had reported on the matter) was requested to point ont to the presiding officer con­eernGd the serious irregularity of his action, but it has be-' n decided under the f'ircunJstau(·ps to take no further proceed­ings, as it is considered that the error \\as the result of a 1nisconception of his duties >Yith an absence of any criminal jutentinn.

.. 4. T ,Jwll be pleased to allow the honourable member to peruse all papers on !I is .. calling at the Department of Justice.

STATE Bt:TC'HERIES IK 0PERATIO~, 1925-1926. }fr. CORSER (Burnctt), for Mr. Moore

(A 11bigny). asked the Minist<'r in Charge of State• Enterprises-

" How many State butclwr shops were operating· as at 30th June in each of the years 1923. 1924, 1925, and 1926? "

lioN. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich) replied-" 1923, 72 shops ; 1924, 57 shops ; 1925,

50 shops; 1926, 48 shops. In addition to tlwse there are at the present time eight cash ~:'liwry carts operating in lieu of shops.

GO\'EHK>l·E~T PFHOHASE OF REDCAP MINE, NEAR Mt:NGANA.

Mr. CLAYTON (Tride Bay) asked the Sec­retary for Mines-

" 1. On what date did the Government purchase the Hedcap mine, nr:n :\1un­gana?

"2. From \vhorn \Vas it pnrrhasPd, and at what. cost? "

The SECHETARY FOR PUBLIC LAXDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, Gympic). for the Secre­tary for cYiines (Hon. A. J. J one·:, l'adtling­ton), replie-d-

" 1. Purchase completed 19th April, 1926.

" 2. Charles . \nstin; £75n."

PRlCES PATD FOR S.\\V:\IJLLS AX1) PL.\N'fS AT YARR urA:x CnEEK \.Xn FR\SER TsL\xn.

Mr. XOTT (St•rnl1p) nskocl the S0crctrrrc for Pllblic Lands -

" \Yi1l 1-w. p;lYP fuP clf'tctils of prl<-0 paid for sa\\lnil1s and nlc!nt n.1· 1:~rtl'l'HJnan Creek and Frnser Isl[111d? "

The SRCHETARY FOR Pl:BLIC L\XDS (Hon. T. Dunstan, G!fmpir) re1Jlierl-

" (a) Yrrrraman CrPek. £10.000: (b) Fraser Island. £5.000."

A>roc:\'TS PAin TO MrmnERs OF P.IRLLDIEXT FOR TR-\ VELLE\G F.XPEN~ES.

Mr. KELSO (J'7n1rlah) a.<kr'd the Trca­~nrC>r-

" \Yh~t amnnnt '.Yas pai(1 to C'<"~{'h rnrJn­her for h':Jvrllinrr Pxn0n~0~ for t-h(· vcar Pnd('i! 30th .Tun0.'="' 1926?" ~ ,

The 'TREASHRER (ITon. iY. :'>IcCormack, (',rirn.•) rC'pliC'd-

" I lay on th1' tahl0 a strdf'nv,nt con­tninin!T ·thP df'~jr0rl infonnnt~on."

_110 Address in Reply. [ ASSE:\IBL Y.] Acld,·e3s in Reply.

ANALYS18 OF VOTING A'l' GENEHAL ELECTIONS.

The following paper was laid on the table. and ordered to be printed:- ·

Heturn to an order made on 4th August, showing the detailed results of the voting at the various polling booths throughout the State at the recent general election.

PAPER. Tlw following paper was laid on the

t··bl-c:-Thirty-first report of the Audihr-Genoral

under the Supreme Court Funds Aet of 1895.

PASTOHAL LJUSES (SUITABLE FOH SHEEP) DUE FOR RES1:DIPTim;·.

Mr. COHSER (JJurnett), for Mr. Moon• (/btbignJt): I b.g to moye-

" That tht~re be laid upon the table of the House ' return showing· the pa-toral leases (suitable for sheep) which f>re due for resun1ptions during th~~ next three• year~. ~pccifying nam_o of holdin~. nan1c of owner, date on wlnch rr.•utnptwn dnr, area of holding, and arPrt liable to be res tuned, respectively.''

Question put and passed.

ADDHESS IN HEPLY. RESU11PTIO:-< oF DEBATE-'fniRD ALLOTTED DAY.

Mr. FRY (Iturilpa): I wish to reply to a few of the items whicih appear in the Lieutenant-Governor's Speech, but before doing so I desire to nwke a st llcment for the benefit of the people in my electorate and elsewhere in Queemland to the effect that the Governor's Speech is prepared by the Cabinet and the party in power, thorP· fore all may understand the true significance• of the present Sveech. I sot that out clearl;r because it is the foundation upon wh1ch 1 :>hall build mv remarks.

After tho 1~cccnt general election:-; I ex~ pcctcd to see a Spe-cech which contained som,'­thlng tr;ore subsL1ntial, more constructive. and mor'' effective for the welfax>~ of the State than the programme which was pre­sented to this Parliament per medium of the Lieutenant-Governor.

After considering the Speech as it stands. I atn forced to the conclusion that not only is it vague, but it gives the impression, to me at any rate, that the Government arc in a quandary, and that they are surrounded bv soc!al and financial difficulties. \Vhcn l reflect upon the time that has been spent in preparing the Speech, I am forced to the conchB~on that the GovernnH:ont found thCinselvcs in a Yery difficult position i!;decd ]n preparing a f t~ :sfactory add res(,_ to put in tho hands of the Lieutenctnt-Governor. Tho Premier should have taken the oppor· tuni"i v to Pxplain the proposals contained in thn f:)I1Crch i:a ord~~r that we rn1ght got an idea of ,vhat the n1easure-s forecast "'CTC' intended to do for the bmwfit of the Stak.

There are rna11y amending Bills promificd. hut included in the ll~-t arc only one~ or t\vo that refct to th2 pron1ises that were mn.ch·· at the lr~;.t State general election. r:l~he ca1npaign literature of the Governn1ent isscH'd bv 1\Ir. Lcwis McDonald. Secrctarv of tho Labour party and organising st,'Cl'ctaQ~. which carried the full weight of the party behind it. and the speeches delivered by members on the Government side of tho

rMr. Fry.

House and their supportCl's, all dealt Y<'I'.\'

,trongl;· indeed "·ith childhood endowment. I have in my hand numerous pamphlet' issued by· the Government, and at· the head of the list is childhood endowment. I havp also a circulr:~r "\vhieh was issued in n1Y elce­torete by my opponent. which waB 'drawn up by a pro1ninent n1cnlber of the Labola~ party, in which it is stated that-

,, The Sta to Labour Governrnent pro­poses to give the mother a. fnrthor banns 1 f rctnrn0d to po\ver on 8th D.lay. ''

That '·as the childhood endowment, ann ever,"', person who spoke in sul1port of 1n:v npp<dWllt nresscd the urgcr:t need for child­head endowment. Thev ctatod that the basic ,-, agl"' was fixed fol' ;_~ nrlll, his \rife. and family of three, or a f-talldard fap:ily of ilvt>. Althouozh they or·cupicd p.rhaps o:.c-hal£ of tht lr ti1n0 during the clPction carnpaign in ~tre~sir;g the ner·d for childhood endo\Ylnent, the oflicial statement of the Covernrrwnt do· li\'et:_rl bv the Lieutenant-GoYOl'llOr at tht• OJH•nieg Of Parliament, I an1 astcnic.·hcd to find. contains no nwntion at. all of child­hood endo\vn1ont. l am judging the Govcrn­rront on this matter purely by the statement., made by their supporters and by the litera­l nr<' i L!Cd to the public, and in my docto­rate alone their pron1iscs jn that, r0gard \VCl'P

n:;;;ponsible for 'vinning on:r to the Labour party some hundreds of vote,. I for onl' am pledged to hold the Labour party to their promise to bring in childhood endow­ment. and, if I am driven to the extrenw ('Olu;:;e of dividing the l-Iouse on the question Juriug the SC'.sion, I shall do so.

A GovERX1IEXT l\TE1JBER: You will not gl't much support.

Mr. FRY: I will get the support of a gooJ many hon. members. If you make a promise to the electors ;cou have to carry it out. and, if the Opposition are wise, they will see t-hat you do carry out yotJr promises. Hours have been spent by members of the Government in cli~cussing the question of increasing their salaries. Although this matter was not men­tioned during the elections at all, the thing that was talked about by the hour has been conveniently forgotten and laid aside. Let me go a little further in regard ID child­head enclownmcnt. \Vc find on looking­through the Governor's Speech delivered at the opening of the 1920 seo>ion that the then l'remi<'r promised childhood endownment. The Government did not give childhood 0ndowment at that time. In 1922 at the Paddington by-election a promise was made that the people would get childhood endow­ment, but after the election was over it "'-'i/as not giY.en. It is Tn:ll \vithin thi~ rncmor~~ of cYcryonC' th,;t, irstcad of giving childhood cndownH•nt, a Ss. reduction in '\ages took place, which n1eant a reduction of t.h~ basic wage of the working n1a.n by £13 a :y0ar. Inst-ead of giving the sum of 5s. as childhood endowment that amount v;as taken from the \Yorkers. In the 1923 election childhood endowment was again promised. \V c remember that the raih ty s'rike took place last 0·car, as " rr~ult of ,,,·hirh the Ss. was r0turnc·d to the men. \Vc fmd the Prrmier of ·:he day say. ir!_g', " y~ ou haY"' got the Ss. back. 'lnd you will get no childhood. endowment." In th recent general election childhood endow. n;ent was pro1ni~ed, but in the Sp00rh we are 11ow discus.-.ing no mention of childhood endowment is included. I think the Govern­nF·l:t f1 re deserving of censure on this matter. If they do not intend to give

Adrl ess i 1 Reply. [5 Aum~sT.l Address in Reply. lll

"'hi!Jlwod endowment, they should not have brought tho matter be~ore the people dur!ng llw election. If they mtonded to gl\·e child­hood endowment, it should have been included in the GoYC•rnor's Speech. I think I would bo failing in my duty to the people ,,[ Kurilpa and the State if I did not bring :his matter before the House.

I might al,o say that during the elect!on ( tu11pairn a good deal of Inisreprosenta.tion wa> inclu lgcd in as to the aims and objects of the Xational party, to which I belong. lt is vcrv difficult to keep track of all the ~tatemcnis made, 'vhich were so nu1nerous and variPd that they would appear to have been conceived by a very fertilo imagination :1 ftcr a conviYial night. There 'vere so __ luny peculiar ~tatcrn0nts made that 1t \Yould be difficult for an"~; s,dlC per~'Jll to b-0lieYC tlF:'lH. ,

Then~ is ono thing ruent ioned in tho ::-ipeech to which I nm;t gi.-c n:Y Y hole­heartcd support-that IS pensiOns for wido·:·, .. Tlwt prm·i-ion was included in th~ policy cf th<' Opposition when they w;nt to the country, and there can be no objcct.Ion raised to it; it is long overdue. A mother and children who arc deprived of their bread-winner and father arf:' plaf't'd in a very difficult posit:on, and a grtJat r0sponsibility falls upon tllP shoulders of the moihnr, who'c experience has not ftttecl her t-o b· :.tr it. V\'hen the familv arc ldt without incn :.e a.ncl the mother has" to tun1 round and 1 n­vid<> means for keeping the home t< g0tlwr, it is only right that she shonld l::e given :Wnle assi:3tance t.o help her to do so.

It. frequent!)' occurs that the mother of t vo or three small children is left rdone to pt·o­,·id<> for tht•m. and that the income she rec0ivcs from the Sbtc• Childrc>n J)ppe.rt­nH~nt is not ~ufficient to enable bor to pay rent and feed. clothe, and educate hor

-ehildren, and at tho same time set aside a little money for amusement or to meet cases of sickness in the home. I have had manv ease::- -where a widow has bL~on placed il1 Ycr·· tuvk,vard circtnnstancl'S, and it has been <lifficnlt to kn.,w jnst ho1v she should be a:-:~i· t~~(_L :\lost of th,:se rnothcrs desire etn­ployrr!\~nt of 2uch a uatun~ a~ will allow thcn1 to atkn<l to !heir children-that is. allow 1 hcn1 to ;2;o awa~- at ti1nes and come b~ck again (•arly cnour;h to look after their hon1c~. It i" n:o't C:ifficnlt to find t'mploymcnt of that. kind, and evC'n ·when such C'lnployrncnt 1~ ecurcd it menD. that the widow often hao

10 work t~ll laL~ at night. in thn ( ~u·o of her ('hilr11'en nficr '.Yorking· during the day at .. -.. omc~ f'ln:'Jo,' n:Pnt \rhich ~he' has takrn to get monc __ to kh j1 the honH~ togt thrr. rJlhik; is a PI'Opo· al vd:tich I shaH f.dadl:· support ·when it. f'OD1CS lwforu the I-fo~.tS.''.

Arother rnatt r I :.ant to sav son1cthing ;:Lout. an• the c·la-in1s 'vhich \Y'.::l'O rn'ld~ on iH.•half of the (;ovcrnrnent d,__ni .g the clcc­J.ion. I 'iYa; :::on1c·· hr.~- ast· ni heel to find th~1t ihe f uppertcrs of 1n,v opponcrt frrquently reft'rred tn v.-ha! thry h·r:n tlw "gloriou~ hun:ar1iblrinn Ir~~'i.-:htion" ·which hnn. n1f'm­

hers op1)0:< u: ha Yf' put o:1 the sta tutc-book. and !ir t and foN"rno~t fU1lOng-,i: th 'ID the'/ 1 'c1tec1 nut tLe old-a~·:< and jn~'alid 110r!sions. '·The Labour part,v," they to~d i:he PlcC'tors. ·_· gnYe ~ ou o1d-age and invalid pensions." They did nothing of the sort, nncl I arn goiHg to pron~ that this rnorning, for in order to refute tbc.p wilful ruisstaternents we have to produce tlw facts. and I have the actnal r·pcord hPrf'. I have searched the history of

old-age pensions in Australia.. and I a1n going to give hon. nu:~rnhcrs as cornpletely as po~siLlo an account of the origin and pro~ress of the system. Sir Austin Chapn1an. n N at.ionalist, was chairman of the Royal Con:nr..ission '"hich rceomrecnded the pension6 in 1907. Sir Littleton Groom, when a member of the Deakin Uovernmer.t in 1908, iEtroc1ncfC1 tiH) original Old-ag(' Pen~ion~ Bill. \\'hen the Labour party had a. big majority in tht> F<•deral Parliament. they did nothing- at. a11 to bring in such pensions. and \vben Sir Littleton Uroo1n brought in l'i' moasm·e the leader of the Labour party f _\rn·e~f:ed tt.o.:toni.•hn10rt and !'aiJ ho thought it would H>t haYe been po·-ible to bring in >uch a Bill for vcars. The Labour party t'UHH' into offi:·c tl1e han1c vcar aud re1naincd in olt:eP fo1· ~ix: n1onths. l-;llt the~' ncYer pald Ol!C ~hillin:.; by '\vay of pc1:~ion. \Vhe;1 th .DPakjn Covennnent regal110d of-ficP, thr-:•' pair! the iirst pe1csion !lloncy o·1 1st July. l9c'l. In 1910 t'1e Labom pady get into control nr~d ron1aincd in offic0 three year~. but diU ncth!ns to inerc1s:- the pension, 11·hich was 10s. a week, although the imposi­tion of thP land tax gavP them £2,000,000 a \·~a1· n,Ol'l' 1·evenue. ThP Labour party carnn ~nto power <lgain in 1914, ancl :-till r:o in~ crea:~/' \Va~ n~adP .. although the co~t. of living-

hi!£lL"t". It w,:s not. until 1916-after and a-half vc•ars of office and on th,,

L'\'l' of a >il'ncrai elPction-that the pension 1va~ raised to 12~. 6d. a \Yeek, and this IYa.; done at thp instance of Mr. Higgs and Mr. Hughe,, both now members of tlw :-\a tionalist party. In 1919 the :\'at ionalist Governn1cnt \Vere in offic:~. and raised the pNision to 15,. a week. Although the pre­~ent Co:nrnoD\vf'alt.h ?\at1onal Governrnent had been in office only two and a-half years tl,clv twiee raised the pension, first to 17s. 6d., and then to £1 a week.

ThP ~ational Governrnent haYL" been ('I:tir~ ly responsible for thf' assistance given in old-age and invalid pens:ons. They have in ot lH•r 1ra vs liber.alisecl tlw pensions as, for

· P\.arnpl~·. makiug tlH'lJJ indPpt•:n· [11 a.nL., d0ni nud PxclusivP of payrnr-nt~

for \Var pensions and contribu­tion of ( hildrcn to tlw maintenance of thoir parents. That was done b:v th<' lute Lord Foi"l"l'''t in 1917, and in 1920 Sir J oseph Cook, 1hen a :\arionali::.d n:ember. inn·ctl~·ccl the amount that the blintl ~onld Parn without reducing t 1.'2 atuount of hi.; pensio:1 fron:. ~j65 per ~; unnm to £221 per annu1n. or £4 s~. a \\"Ct'k. Thr l'\ationalist. Oo\"Cl'lllnent .l:'o inc1·eu:-;r>.d the limit 011 proper!~.· that

c .lllld be Jwld by a pcn,ioner. I ha Ye ol I J.inocl an ofrkial .;;;tatmncnt fro1n the: d 'partnlCllt d~·:ding- fnHy with that rnat.ter. 1 f u ntLtrricd tnan a~1el -his >·ife arc' both ]"f'n . .;ionpr" und l1 ·yp an 1nconH' of £65 pc-r ;·an\1.11. thPv arc ~:~ill entitled to rcl'cive thl" fnll pru:-;iot~. A single n1an or a, lvidower 1·,ho ha~ ~111 income of £32 10.-:. per armur11 < 111 siiJl r0r·rivc t 1tc full pension. A hmne Jlc>l'tll<ll1C'lltl_'>- occupit'd by a pcn~ioner, irrl'­:--JWC~i,·r of its Ynlut:. i~ 0xrn1pt fron1 any ( .Hl~idl'l'ation. ~.--;-ith rP p<:i·t to t1c·ns1on". '.part frcm t!w ho:HP all prop:'r(Y O\YnPd

bv the i.-; tak{'ll into account, and t!J i.., sHLicct to fL dcduc:-1m1 of £1 1; ~~t· atnr l!.l fur 1c;h nnd PYer•; £10 i~J cxc•'~~ ot a Yahlt~ cf £50 on properi)~ roi ocrupiPrl. <':"'- a homu. IB the case of a husband and \\' i r(~. tlw propcrt:c· i~ dr•f'tned to be hold (qual!· lwhyecn them. If onh· on<' is· " pensio.nc1·. there is a (kdnction. of £1 per annum in the j)(msion for every £10 over

llfr. Fry.]

112 Address in Reply. [Ai'lSEIIBLY.]

£50 in i h<' ,-aluc of the proporiy, and. if both husband and wifo uro pensioners, thfl. deduction is £1 per annum for CYcry £10 oyer and above .a value of £25. A blind 1nan '""ith his pension can earn sufficient to return him £4 5s. a '.vcck. Any person in possession of OYer £400 or the equivalent in property, apart from the home, i'· not entitled to a pension. I quoto those facts hoping that my friends on the Government sid{~---

'l'he SECRETARY FOR AGH!Cl'LTt:nE: You have no friends over here.

Mr. FRY: I quite re~lise that I haw no friends over there. Xo man is a friend of mine who pledges himself to the people and at the first opportunity breaks that pledge. The Xational Government have done their best to make the path easier for the aged and the infirm. There is another aspect of this pension question. On :29th September, 1916, Mr. (now Sir) Elliot Johnson, a Xa6onalist n1cmbcr, '\vas successful in carry­ing a motion increasing to £52 the amou'tt by which the pension could be supplemented. I want particularly to mention that the Labour party had that clause recommitted, and knocked it out. I ask hon. members opposite to r0futc tlwsc statements if they can. It is time the Opposition woke up rtlJ(l replied to the misleading statements made by Government members; and it is time that the public were made aware of the fact that their statements arc without foundation.

Tlwro are other things for which we ha;-e a rig·ht to rla.im some credit. The allowance for State children was not introduced bv a I.abour UovcrnrnC'nt, but \\as iHtrothl.Ced hy a ~-ationalist GoYcrnn1ent.

Ko Go;-crnment could possibly exist with­out amending legislation and doing some good. B.v increasing the allowance payable in rhped to State children the Go;-ernment ha;-c only done what they were pledged to do. Tho incrcaspd cost of livincr necessi­i ntcR au increase in the a1nonnt· p

0

a.yablo in that regard.

The 'Vorkcrs' Co1np"'I1sation Act is another instaucc of where hu111anit.arian legis­lation was not gi,-en to the people by the Labour 11rrrty. That measure was on tho si~tut.e-ho?k \Yhen the Labour party assumed ofhce. ami wa;; placed thoro bv the previous Nationali,t .Administration. The credit of i<aving placed the \Vorkms' Compensation Act on t\;o statute-book. therefore. does not lie with the Labom part.v hut with the :NatiolJali,ts. •

:\fr. \Yrx~TAXLEY: They did nothing of !he kind. Thev did not enact the Arbitration Act~ouly ~, s.n;tcrn of wngcR boards.

:"r. FRY: The LaLour party only a11~mH1f'd that lcg·i:::lation and oxt<'ndcd it-; o:10rnt l0ns. IT ou. nletnbel'S- en this side ot tlw liou•r• arc just as hurnan as any n1nn on the G-0\'C'l:nmcnt side. and THO­bal>h- 011; expericnc.' gained bv rubbing ~houldrr~ wi1l1 tho pcop1o. is rnorO extensivE~ than that of hon. lll8mbcrs opposite. If the JWOp]e of this Stab• \Yon1d only realise it, the~-. lwv0 mor0 likelihood of receiving g0n111n0 help and prosperitv from the Opposition th;m thev hn vc fron~ t-he Govern­ment. It is no uso the Government think­ing that by taking up a c0rtain stand and workmg from ono side of the question only they arc thereby going to benefit all sec­tions o£ the community. 'Thei t' methods confer benefits on one section of the com­munity only, leaving the other section totally

f Jlr. Fry.

di.:;rcgardc,l. rrllc' \n~1farc, ha·1pinc~. and· general prosperit~' of the work-oi·s is ''""'Pt up in tho general \Yclfarc of all.

It is tru(' that under our system of adult fmnchisc the people have the opportunity oyer:v three years of expressing their con­firlcncn or otherwise in the Government, but that is to some extent nullified by gerry­manderin~- tactics and withholding ~he principle of ono Yote one value, whiCh should be conserYcd under an adult fran­cbist', enabling the Government to remain in of!icc without carrying out the will of the majority. If the Government proceeded with a redistribution of seats measure, which "·oulcl gh-c genuine effect to thD principl" of adult franchisE' and one vote one value, the:;­would not last more than three years. They are ac<'jtmint<'d with that fact just. as ;veil as anybody else; consequently they contmue in office by making the conditions such as to enable them to remain in office.

The Workers' Dwellings Act was placed on the statut~-book bv the Nationalist-s, who· '"t aside a sum of £.250,000 for tho purpose of enabling workers to become the owners of tlwir homes. It is undeniable that this· scheme first· originated with the Nationalist parh. There is a difference between the policy of the Government and the policy of the Opposition in this respect. The Go­Yernment sav thov have a housing policy. I admit they ha,;e, but that policy is not >o gnod as the \Vorkers' Dwellings Act. 'The \Vorkors' Honws Act. allows a man to own a house. but it will not allow him to own the land upon which that house is built. The \',-orkns' Dwellings Act, which as I caid '"''s passed by tho :1\ationalist party, a ll<Jw, a man to mYn both the house and the land upon "hi eh it 'tands. Hence the· \Vorke>:,' Dwellings .Act. is the popular Act. I wish it to be understood that I am expres­f;ing n1y O\Yll Yiews cntir0ly, a.nd, although :-.omc Irlf'Inb(~rs of n1y own party may not; a~rc<, with 1nc, I sav that, if it was v:ithin rn:-,.· po~.YC'J', I ,youlcf place a vvorker in a IH1!fH' built nnder tlw \Vorkers' D'Yellings \et on a Ycr:;- small ck;oosit-probably a

non1inal one. That no1ninal dcpo ,it \vould probably b0 somc,vhcrc in t·h<> Yicinity of £10 or £20. Of c0urse, that may be " m a itr'r for eonsidcration and debate. As I ::-tatPd prcyiousl_,.~. whC'll I vYas endeavouring to g0t n hon1P for lTI:_'If.>Olf tny greatest stnwgle was to obtain the deposit. It meant; pnl~~ng rll' a.' a f'hilliEg here and thern nnd d nying lll_Y-i01f luxuries, but eventually I ..... ~'C!ll Pc1 thnt d('pORlt, bought 111~~ hmn{'l. 211'1 I hen f0und mys, 1£ in a better conditi0n,

<~ cvPr.v ~:.:hilling I paid toward::; th0 p;1ynY'llt of lhn home- mnile it neare-r

to hr,eomjnr::- 1nY O\Yn. \Vitl1 other work0rs T iun·~ '~'>=pcricric~d the hardships of obt-ain­irn:r a h"n1f'. and that can~CR m(:l to bo the: <-~1·anipinn of p.'r;.;:ons :::irnilarly situated.

IT on. D. ,\. GrED,.lJ~: You would not h:tY0 i11" s-;n10 difficnlrv undr~r this GoYcrnn1ent .1~ yc1u tl1cn had.·

::\Ir . .FRY: I '"ould ha ye more difficultY. h( r lll'>f' i his GoYcrnJnPnt is ~n l1arrl up .jt conld not hrlp me. I can chow how thn CoYP1'11'llf 1:t could l1n JnOn' lib0rnl an(l' rot.ah1ish a nolicv \Yhich would be better for 1hc State ar.d the ]Wople ns a whole. 'Tho tro,b],, is that thE' Gm-ernmE'nt seem to he >f'i7<'d with the idcrr that drerption is rlrvrr­nC'-..fl.. and that propa.g-nnda wl1ich j~ n1i;.L•nd~ ing- is the high art of polit-ics. Time '"ill' t0ll. as time has always told, which is the·

Address in Rrp'y.

,better policy for the people. There must be a policy founded upon soL!nd lines and \Yi~:~clv arln1inistored. r_rho Government have· not given tho l'\aiionali't party one word of '!redit in connect~on v;:ith any provision for Wdrkel ·' hmne.~, bnt ha..-e taken ull the credit +} th.~n1::-clvc ,

lt 'ii! bo found that tbi, party intro­tll!c.•d the DosPrtod \Vivos and Children Act, the Oq1hanage:3 _._ti~ct. t-he Illfant Life ProM

/\et, the Children's Courts _\et, and hnnjanitariJn le'.~·islation.

H 'Hl a ridiculouslv foolish staten1ent to tlw dicct that, if t-he Oppo•ition got into

t~.ey would disband the Police Thrj Govern:T1et1t u~u.;:t think tho

im no to spread such a foolish state­\Yhat possihlo gain conld th"rc be

frorn the· disbanding of the Volice -union'? It Inust_ be bon~e -~n mj_nd that rnany of the j_~coplc 1r1 1ho ~atlunahst p:1rty t-)-day were ~~bout ihc strouge J't advocate,-, of unionism. Th_oj . were the 1nen who fought for Hnlonl~-.n 'd1en men supporting the Labour party v ere oppc,sed to it. Only wh~n thev saw that success was o.ssured did those men suppmting tho Labour party join the move-1Tit>nt-to assist thernsclves into Parliament. I ln~ow men \\ho fo,nght and did everything po"s1blo l·O defeat tn" ca,ndidates of Labour at that time who afterwards turned round as the c!1ampious of Labour because it meant money m their pockets. The correct senti­ment was no! there; it was merely a question of paunch, smllmgs, and pencP. That u:mlcl be proved throughout Au,tralia to-dav

I also advocate that there should b~ .equal parental control of children. At the present tnnc the father IS the legal guardian of the chi'd, and by deed or '':ill he may deprive the mother of the guardianship of the child after h1s de:tth. Then again, if the parents arc separated, the father may take the con­~rol of the child aw. ay from the mother, and, 1f t~e mother obJects, the court will not ·depnve the father of the lc"'al guardianship of the chiJ.d unless it can b.;' proved that he Is not. a fit and proper person to have the guardianship. That, I understand, is the l~w as. It stands to-day. Tho primary con­sideratiOn, when deciding who shan be the guardwn of the child. should be what is best for the c·.hild. ·

The SECRETARY FOR AGRIC1JL1'1JllE: That should be the paramount consideration.

Mr. FRY: For that reason the position with regard to equal parental ~ontrol should br made "tronger. It could easilv be done by the Government. "

I also W:J '! t to refc·r to t h2 quution of 1nxation, whrf·h has been Jnt?ntioncr1 durino· t~1is dehate .. \V~ wer~~ t~ld during the clcc~ t1on rurnpargn tnat, 1f tne Opposition were _",ct.urned to ]10\Yr-:r, thcv would increa, .:; the l"(tihYay freights and fa.res.

Th8 s,:...CRt:"T,IllY FO-q _c\GRIC'LLT1.'HE: So YOU would have done. "

J\1:r. FR'l: A a n1ati»r of it 1,youlcl he hnrc1 for nnvon, ·with ;1 rnind to

th[ct thC rt'pH•sentr tin~.: of farrning bo i!l f <1 YOUl' _of r:-1 isir~g rail~

<lnd I art'< p . Illf:t tl!(?Jr The G rn .~run~'eu t - that

p,i :'; d? niaL

-,·]th n.nk-ing a fn_Lo :-d li- ~1nt'JJt. v-erv vc]] thnt the ITlJ.ll in not pa:v the freights and fu 1l well that the man on tho

1926-J.

the tnan an ahso-

Go :enmrnt ThPy kno\v dr<>et de·"~ They know

land,' who is

Address in Reply. 1!3

furthL -.,t r~::-lnoYed frmn the: ccntr0 of indus­try. nru:-~t lJHY the freight on goocb con1ing· fron1 thP nwnufactnriJ,n· and distribui:inn· c ·11trcs i·o ;· ');r:ieultu ··a! n ~;~a..... \Yh~·tlwl.' iL C food.-;tuff~ nn~ thir.g . they ruust pay the 1he fl'cighi

c .. ntrcs of IrlUll ir1 tltP countr -st;--1f'lllf'1lt t:w_t thl:

if l't.. tlll'llCcl to lJ0\.-(~1·, \ OL'd fla\·(~ the frt)!rthts is untrue'. , IH1 it · £,,,. tiw

not tlwv

-o:·n :._( ou f: nn thii1 r- JV nn .... dhing

. ha~cc of n1 dr> bv 1 H l'S the Go\·crn-

rnent {l_!'" sufilf'icni- cviclrnct• that th_);v di(l SJ.y

so. Th·· Prt>rnier--I a'tl :.:p· ._;'"ing· fro1n H1f'Inor~ -a 1~o ;;aid thr1t the "·t·.:Hhy paid tht t ·X<'e impo3,'d by the Government. It is plHP cl<'~'ption to s '·Y that the 'VPllthy [' ·Y the Ulx;•:--;. T'hc t·.xes are dt:::.rivc-d n.nd. dnt\Vn from lilP rmls,,c; of the pcoplL'.

~1r. lYE m: So is over .. thing cl>e.

:Hr. FHY: \'l"hich f.:vos the lie to the statdllont. I wish to show to what extent the Govornmc·nt will go in ordrr to deceive the people at election time. If a person goes to a tap and turns on the water, that water does not come from that tap: it comes frmn the r0scrYoir miles avvay. The tap is onl;· the channel through which it is delivNcd from the reservoir: and so taxes imposed upon industry, if th••y are paid first of all by industry. are eYcntually passed on and paid finally by the ma>ees of the people.

Let me show the effect which taxation has. Some time ago we had an entertainments tax and we saw in front of a 1! the pictur.­gho\.vs the announccn1cnt ";Admission ls.; tax ld." "When that tax was t:tken off th<· adrnittan{'e card then read, "Admis~ion ls." because the tax was removed. In the same way, if industry is ta.xed, and an articlP which cosh 8:•. to produc<c is taxed to the extent of 3d., thnt makes th0 coot of the article Ssc 3d. Who pays that bx? It is put on the selling cost of the article. and the p.rson ,dw buys the articlo eventually pays the tax. If the arrount of t_txation was placed on Pverc' article sold, thr,t js to r:<ly, jf \VP bought thr articlP ·1t a price plu~ the Govt~rnrnC'Ht ta"'\:, \Yf' 1Y01i.ld soon fJE'CJ that the workPr \Ymdd take notif'c, .:tnd there· \You1d be a dt~;~qn(1 bv tlh: p:·oplo for HlOl'C

0conon1~T in t1u n:ffa irs of goYCrilrnf n~.

I mif!·ht l'('fcr to nn illPstrat~on \Yhirh -I 1nad1 i11 this 1-Ton;;:e last ; 0-;sion ith rcgrrrd to stun1p. re ,",ncl royalties. That U"i a clPar ea~: whr'rc tht\ the llHlih:r from start to p]ac•_ the~ forc:~t bwht>r \\·as rot put *hP UoYcrnnwnt: 11aJnrc erH!O'; t•d -with ih;') it eo~t-. the mrnt Th"n the C:o-\·c ;'n­

or ro rolt-· fees on 1h• of ror 'lh· 1)1'0·

£15 <llHl on a holFc; si:-:0. mi:ler

,-::.:. t!n~. o· or h) tl·r. COY·_rn-rn':'nt.. 'Then, \, 11C'il ilw c1li- ~ 11p i h:: logs, the buildpr pnys the roya1t: 01' ~i-'.Ullp­age because it is included in the price ho

JJir. Fry.]

ll ·i Add. (ss ir' RtJ!ly. [ASSEl\IBLY.] ~1ddrrss in Reply.

pays the miller for the timber. 'Vhen the house is built, the \Wrker pays the royalty or stumpage charges bec.1uso they are in­cluded in the price he pays for his house. The State sawmills charge exactly the same price as the privately-owned mill, so that in CYCry case the stumpage m· royalty charges originally imposed by the Government are eyentually paid by the worker who seeks to own his home. If we take the average royalty or stumpage charges for the timber used in a house as between £45 and £80 we find that approximately £60 of the m~ney pa1d by a worker for his home goes into the State Treasury for the Government to spend. Tramway fares, railway fares, municipal rates, ancl sewerage rates are other forms of taxation; but the difference is that those are direct forms of taxatioa of the workers, wh1_lst the stumpage or royalty fees are an mduect form ol taxation. Taking the taxa­tion in Queensland for 1915, the figures show that 1t was £1 Ss. 2d. per head of population or £7 Os. lOd. for a family of five. In 1925, after the present Government had been in power for ten years, it was £4 13s. 9cl. per head or £23 Ss. 9d. for a standard family of five.

I notice by the clock that my time has nearly expired.

GOYERKMEKT MKIIBERS : Hear hear ! Mr. FRY: Government members say

'· Hear, hear," _probably because they feared that I was gomg to talk about unemploy­ment and other labour questions that they do not want me to deal with. So far as nnemploymen~ is concerned, I need only say that I have 11ere a statement which shows that_ the party opposite are very unsympa­thetic to the uncmplo,ced, but time will not allow me to do;I) with it. At the elections they said that they had an unemployment pohcy. I <!p·ee that they hayo an unemploy­ment pnhcy, uml it is their general policy­to create large armies of unemployed and then to take credit for s:wing them from darv~~-tron, -whereas tho :-..:ation :lists have an industrial policy which will give the unen1-ployed \York under good conditions and hio-h wage;;; not Jixiug a lirnit OY~~r which a. worl:;:­ing 1nan cannot ris~ but a lln1it b0low ,vhich he cannot fnll-that if:, a reaSonable basic wagP.

Th:> SPE.<\.I\:.ER: Order! Tho hon. m c-m­her has exhausted the tin1e allowed hin1 under the Standing Ord0rs.

The SECRETARY FOH. AUlUCULTLHm Cl-Ion. IV. Forgan Smith, Jiackrzy): I have' listenc,l1 1Yith nti--Jntion to the s,.,ccches which h_aye hcen dyliv0Ted by nlclnbcr:-) of the Oppo· Sibon. I listened with particular attention to that o_f the leader of the Opposition, and I found that as member after member rose in hiA plaeo !lO new idea wrts expressed, nothing sugg·estive of a constructive charv,cter. It is really amazing to an impartial observer to note th0 paucity of ideas on the part of members of the Opposition. Ono member after anothN dealt with matters in a wav f'imilar to that which characterised tht~j:· speeche.-, during the previous three years, quotrd from newspaper articles, from pam­phlets, leaf!pts, and so forth, but put forward nothing of n constructive character to deal ·with the affairs of the nation and the prob­lems of indnstry of the present -day. Then they pl'oceeded to complain of the results of the election. They complained that during the election campaign the Labour party made certain promises which they declared

[Mr. Fry.

were now to be dishonoured. I wish to say definitely that Parliament has a"embled for only n little over a week, and one can scarcelv expect to have the whole Govern­ment programme placed in one Bill and passed on the first day that Parliament is opened; but the people of Queensland wh<> elected us realise that we are the party wdh constructive ideas and can be trusted to, carry on the functions of government in the interest of the people of this. State. It h:;s been said often enough, and 1t may be '!ald again, that it is the function of an Oppo­sition to oppose. That is perfectJy true. Y!e have no objection to hon. members oppos1te doing that. but they must remember that they can only attain to the Treasur~ benches by puttinn- forward a better pohcy than Labour ha~ bf'en able to submit. Up to the present time they have been incapable of doing that consequently the people of Queens­land are 'not prepared to trust them with the government of this State.

As indicative of the general attitude of the public mind, let me quote from the "Graziers' Review" of 16th June last, an organ which cannot be regarded by any stretch of imagination as a paper sympa­thetic with the Labour Government. It

realises the importance of parlia­[11.30 a.rn.] mentary institutions, and goes

on to deplore the la<'k of capacity on the part of the National party. The article states-

" In the first place, provincial n~tion­alism appears to be almost dev01~ of effective leadership. Mr. Moore 1s a good party man, a decent straight-goi~g fellow whom everybody hkes; but m no sense of the word a leader. In con­junction with :Messrs. Taylor and Barnes he must ultimately be consigned to the permanent company of. the rank. ~nd file, who can never gmde the pollbcal plou?"l1 in a _stra!ght fur~·ow, but do adnurnble s••rv;ce m the d1g-g:mg of the ' pratics.' :0To 111ore depressing docu­ment than :Mr. :\1oore's address t{) the electors. issued some time prior to the lato cor1test, eYer i--sued fro1n a political pen. It did not co11tain one spark of fire· not ono scnh:mcc that rang even <'Vet: so faintly like a distaut clarion call; and ih ~vv·ant of t,·,C't i1~ dealing \";ith c-'·~·~ 11tials wa.s truly :.;t,-,- ~-genng. 'rhc 1n·oposcd lnntdEn~ . of rlcctnral reform \\·as we k and halting, and the method nntlil1\·d of fonning or reforming an Cppcr :House on L·_n dccti,~e bz,",is was Yit:ious in the cxtrcrrH\ although well meant in the hiC"hcst degree. One wonders not only at the calibre of the lender who sent out such a production but also at the incapacity of the party --~otnc of 1vhose me:mb0rs have been over­twenty years in 1:mblic life-that co~­'ented to the issumg of snch n mam­fe:-;to. For certain mmnbers of His ~L1jcsty's Queensland State Opposition · LiYe auJ learn' wns 1-vritt·cn in vain. The individuals of that bodv will franklv tl'll you that they lack leadership. If they 'added thereto, ' \Ve also suffer from a painful lack of brains,' the statement would be equally true."

That is a cJ,,,finitc stat.enwnt by a pa)l<'l' t'nat. supports generally the National conception of politics and is generally opposed to Labour. They are forced to reahse that members of the Opposition who cat~r for public support must continue to cater in

Add;·ess in Reply. [5 A"LGUST.] A.ldnss in Reply. 115

Yain, becuuso they lack initiative, because they lack the essential principles in matters affecting public life, and are out of touch entirl'ly with modern thought and have nothing to offer t.o a progressive people during election time or at any other time. One has only to listen to their speechPs in Parliam0nt to see that. We have one mem­ber after another rising and talking about litt.]e things, perhaps important enough in themselves, but their speeches show a lack of perspective and an incapacity to deal with matters that affect this State.

Take, for example, the attitude of t.he Commonwealth Government in matters -that vitally affect the interests of this State. It was announced arbitrarily by t.he Common­wealth Government that the,,· intended to abolish the per capita pay-ments to the Stdes. A conference of interested Ministers was called to deal with !·hat matter, and that conference unanimously opposed the Federal Government's proposals. The Premier of Queensland, in conjunction with others, pointed out that there was an inaliena.ble and moral right on the part of the States toQ participate in that revenue, and the attitude of this Government has never been any different from that. The s:1me can be said for the other State Govern­ments in Australia at the present· time. The only member of the Opposition in; this Parliament who realises any sense of responsibility in regard to the matter, which vitally affects the interests of this Stat-e, is the hon. member for \Vynnum. He saw fit to make a very carefully thought-out state­ment to the Press which indicated generally the effect. of the position. The Opposition 11_1 H;e Sew South \Vales Parlia~ent-a party sllni:a.r to hon. n1en1bers opposite-are sup­portmg the Lang Government strenuously and whole-heartedly in their attitude. The Xationalists of Victoria, who are the Govern­n1cn1·.. opposo tho policy also; but on no rceas1on ha n~ the Opposi·~ 1on .in Qnct~n8land­the public nwuthpiccc of a section of the popn!HtlOn ot thrs State-made a statement on th·~. quc;·tiox:. 'l~h~y hH ve failed enti~·cly to rcnHse .10 s1iuatlo:u, -and t.hcv htve Lulcd to scl:: anything. ~

:\Ir. Ku;R: That ic not true.

The ~.;_.:CllE'L'ARY J_i'()R .:\GH.IC1Jr.TLRE: ThP~. hav·e fai10d to do fil1\·thintr that "\Yould cult.~\7 att~ public opi_lior;, n'nd thus (';cato a. ~trf'nuo:_H oppct.ition to an un1Yarra~1te I iPtru::.-i.)n 011 the fin:,ncrs and rights of this ~t. t».

Go\.L1.X:V.L T )LE)lilERS.: Ht•ar. hear 1

The SECIU/L\HY FOR \GIUCULTl)HE: Fo · ~orne t inlf' pn ·"'t the Con1mon\Yca1th (~n\·,_·lllment h<.cYc bel'H prep~red to do \Yhat th0.v no1.-v propo~ed. {)ype thn'(~ yPnl'M Rgo I wa:; pr"'Cllt at a conference at which the proposal was pqt forwarrl by tho Pri1ne ~llnist('r, :.\Ir. Bruce. \Vo wcro able success­fully to uppoec the scheme at that time.

Hon. \Y. H. B.lllXES: The Labour party were in office in thn Ferlcral Pudiainent 'vhf'!l WC' \Ycre in office in this Parliament, anJ thvy introduced similar proposals, which WC' OjljlOScd.

Tl10 SECRET"\RY FOR AGRICULUTRE: I rca!i,e that the Commonwealth Govern­rnent have CC'rta.in functions to n0rform in regard to the government of Australia, but I also realise that, under our existing Federal system, and under the methods of constitutional control of the States at the

present time, public men of every party in the commnnitv should see to it that such ;1

policy is opposed in every constitutional vv.:.:y.

Hon. \V. H. RmNES: You opposed it when we F'tt over there.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: The Opposition in this Parliament have had !lothing to s 1y on the matter, and by their silence have acquiesced in that policy.

Mr. KERR: Turn up the records and you will sec. Yon are not telling the truth.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: \Ye know that owing to the activities of the various State Governments, and the public­spirited individuals in the various States who have taken up the matter, it is possible that the Commonwealth Government will recon­sider their attitude towards this question. I hope that they do so. It is essential in the interc",ts of this and the other States that it should be done, because it must be realised that their evacuation of certain avenues of taxation a.nd the securing of such avenues under the same method by the States would not :--ield an amount equivalent to what they would lose under the per capita payments.

It is not necessary for me to go into details of this matt<•r, because it has been well c·oYcrcrl in article:• in the public press, in statements by the various Premiers, and it may be the subject of further discussion, if necev;ary, in Parliament this session. I draw attention to it particularly, :Mr. Speaker, because of the fact that. while 1 hose things are going on, and 1vhile they are­being dealt with, members of the Opposition ha,-e had nothing to say agaimt it officially as a party. Vn1~· one individual member, and he not the loader, has seemed to realise what 1vas happening-. In that relation I might aiso say that the "-hole relationship of the Commonwealth ancl States and our ~. ~Jcm o£ govf'rnt.nent is under revie"\v. No hem. n:cmher of the Opposition has seen fit to giYe hi.;; vir-ws on thi'3 nuestion. Fion. incn1bcrs oprosito do not api)eur to u!1dBr­~:n~·ci thflt, if the Cotnn!on'v'- 1.1th Govern­ti:ent propct: :ls arc carried. it 1neans an

l'£<f·.'1stl of the funrtions of this the fnrlctions of 6'-'Yernnlent

tl1:_, SL,t(". It is thcr('fou! a nuttter r_ \·cry Dlcndy;c of l)arliarnent should Y0l'Y thoro ghly and become conver­

nt ~>:ith 'o tbat he in turn ean infenn tha ·· 1 . .: gcJJ('nd public, who ::hould Parli lll·'n t for <:L lead in. these

1 Jl'L::.n:: n1altc:;: ::-. I realise tltd a Q·oocl deal c. m be said for

the r~·.--.a'· f!ng of the~ Cmnnton·\ r:alth and State (

10nstitutiollfl. It eRn be argued that tho C·')l11l1lOD\YOa1th Parliament should h:-t~ o

greater industria-l lJOY:c~rs than it has ut r1~e prf'~rnt time and greater po1Yers !or geueral logislation. The case for unification is oue that should be COJ"idcrecl on its merits, one that should be considered in the open after fuil and free discu>Sion, and after the public g-enerally have b~·cn fully infonned upon l'Vorything that i" involved in such a. poliov. I say definitely that the Bruco-Pagc Goyorn­ment have embarked upon a policy of unifi­c!ttion by means of gradually encl'O:rchin;! upon the functions of the States without apparently doing, so. They stand for a policy of unification by gradually assuming control, and by th'~ exercise of financial or economic power. I object to those methods. If it is their desire thut the Commonwealth Government should be vested with more

Hon. W. Porgan Smith.]

116 Address in Reply. [ASSE:\IBL Y.J

power than they haw' at the probent time, rhat should bo done openly, .me! the poop!" ~-eitcra]!y should have full knowledge of !'YL'rythin~r ~o that they llHty be conver~an1 \rith' vd1~t is going o1J. COntrary to that., dmo:,t {'\-erv act of vdn1inistration intru­

duced bv the Cotntnon\v·.~:dth GoYe:tntncnt i.-. .(t gradu.al intrusion into thr Shtto doJ.nain.

::\11'. EDWARDS: Tlw san '~ as yon ar~ Lring­i 11g iu Connnnni.~ nJ.

The SECltETAHY FOR c\GRICL'LTURE: The li.on. n1r:1nb:r for 2'~auan;.ro 7 ·with his

lack of ap;_n·cciativu of the- fihtl''::S oi intc~rje-·i about { 'onnrHlHiHll. It

YC'l'\' dEr:ult i'or tbc• hm1. Il1l'lllbcr

iO giYc ;:-n i;Jt. de{init;on to \Yhat

C-Jn1tnuni.;;In l'l'cdlT rnt..•ans. It ate;:; thot the hon. Il1C'l11bC'r b:i~ JJO COllcr~ntiun at all of hi"- rr-,-,ponsibil~ties 8-:; n l11Pll.t

1K'r of tJJis J-lousP. The hnrl. 1nuubcr cOllH.'~ in, sits <lo·~yn, and El<tkr:• irrelv· ult, ina~w. aEd asinine interjections to a p.·akcl· ho i dealing \Yith matters vitally affecting the interbls cf Queensland. The methods of the hon. n1en1bcr a11d his collc-agucs. support•tl by a "~~f·tion of the 11rc~--:>, haye douc InorP to unclcrn1ino principk:3 of constitutional govpfllD1Cllt thn11 haYe auy half dozCI!. Conl­Inunists \Yho may exi:-t in an.v part of Australia. There is absolutolv no doubt about that. The activitit.".· of tlio hon. mem­ber and such people arc calculated to bring the principles of reproeentativc government into contempt, and by their misguided activities the people rightly judge them as being incompetent ·:o deal with these matter,. Let me refer more particularly to the pro­pose·d increased industrial powers of the CormnomYoalth. It has bc~n referred to at various times in this Parliament: it has been the subject of interstate conferences, and has been seriously considCI·cd by every individual who realises the importance of industrial ques!;ons to Australia. I say definitely that tll'J industrial problem is the greatest problem of the GoYernments, not only of Australi''• but of all civilised coun­tries of the world at the pn~sent time, and on the successful solution of industrial problems the future of civilisation depends. There­fore. it is a fit and pro·per subject for dis· wssion in this Parliament.

Smne four years ~go, on behalf of Queens­land, I attended a confenncc summoned by :VIr. Bruce, at which representatives of the Yarious States were present, to deal with industrial matters. A numbe',' of different Govern tnenh \Ye re in po\Ycr then to those who hold office to-day. Queensland was the only Lnbour GoYern1ncnt I·<~prcsentc.cl at tbi1t confcrcn~:o. The P.tatc Attorneys­Gc;.cral of Victoria. Nmc Sonih \Vales, Sonth Austrnlia, ancl \Vc~tern An.stra.li:t had d.rafte~d a "J1cn1e \Yhi<Ch they put before that confe1:Pnc0. Thc Con1n10il\Ycrtli-h Govcrnn1ent f•.1so submitt.- -l their proposal),, but. after Jen.·. thy di'cnssion of all the proposal~. LOllC' of the1n \Yf're founc1 to bo agrec­nble to nll the Statf_,:, on0 n'ason being·. r f c·•urse. th·1t tho phusrs of industrial ;;d-ivit;r vnri0d jn degree ns between the

:ued the ·cliff ere nee in the Go\ cr1n~1C'nts in th:J _e State~ indic<tcd " r1ifl'0rcnc:J of

n.;; to ·wh:Jt pol-ic, the Stvt,-s shonld rcr;arfl to their >Control over indn.J­

n1nttcl~~. In hrieL :..h- propos:1l of the S" :to .\ttornev~-G;'ncral W'l thnt the Co::n­rnonwealth should fYv,.ruatc ontirc:ly the n rc-na of industrial arbitration and lOavo jt

[Hon. W. Forgan Smith.

r•ntit". ly to tlH• Stales. On behalf of Queens­la 11d. I op[Josed that because the abolition o;: tho Federal Arbitration Court ':·ollld mean thf' aboliiioi! of conditions ihar had b;ocn obtaiJH'd by 1arp;P r:;eetjons of workPrs Ill

tht·ough that {'Ourt \\·lthout nt tlw th('1'L lH~ing any oL~jgariox~ on Stat~· CoYC'rnmeut-; to ::;ubstltuil•

,te:n cf vr~)itration within their .... \nother proposal --;;>,·llich was

Jltad\_' L,\.' 1 ht St n tc~ ~\ tton~CY' 1 1 \HlS

thnl t!1e C'lllployl!i_':-> of Sb.t~; ITlltH0uts,

<!l!d aJl rJulJlic bocll·.':--. y:orkin~~- und0r [L ]~1 W of tlH Rt -·te. c.::1Jdtdd Le ex:eltH~t·d eiJtircl,v ;·re· !.t dw cunbit- the Fl'(k~al _\tbitration. ( 'nur. I th< '"' propo.- tlo. and Jinall" llt- -.-'Pl'f' eou:pleu·iy df'fPatcd. TlH Coni-

; ltl1 <lS tlwr. ilH'i'P _,[JoH!d lL• cl ,fillf'cl a . .;;; CodlEJo!l·.- ea1th

<Hul these in(lu~trir~ tlw Co!H-Arbitration Cuurt shonld Le

in all indwrtrial tn:tttcr~; certain , to lw defined bv in! cr.:;;tatl' con­

fer ;nee'". to lJC' added frorr1 · tiu1~ to time by l!chncn the ptates, anc1 those

riP.s c.Jnfint. l ent~rcly 1 d thc> control of the {'o!Jllnonwealth ArLitrDt~on Court. That \:a:-; onpmwd on the gronnd of tlw Conu_non­\\Pnlth failing (.Uit'qn:ttrly io ntC' t the sttuu­tion. aLd 0110 ('an l"":lJi..;e that, jf Co1nu1on­wcalth hnY O[H'ratcd ''it h regard to one industrv in a Stale and not to another, HIJOI!lafies of vririou"' kinds "·ould follow 1:hi('h would giv0 ri~c to industrial uurci"t. You 1night havo, for C'XUnlplc. a C?n1mon­"·oalth board fixing hours and the basiC wage on a differPnt plane to what the State coun hac! don"~ and men on the samo job pe:~aps working under differf:'llt inJ.uRh:ia.l condihons en· laws. In addition to that, 1t would have nwant that mPn in those defined Federal inc!Ltstrics would have been dopriYed of advanLgf>S which had been given them by the various State Governments, because the power of the Commonwealth in industrial matters in those industries was to haYe been supreme, the Federal court having power to fix wages, hours of labour, and the c~m­ditions under which labour should be earned on. One can readily see thP impossi,bility of a r:Tocing to such a. proposal, and atso that, h~d such propo,als been ag~eed to. so far from JJroviding a soluti?n of .1~1dustnal prob­lrms. it would have mtensthcd then; and aiven rise to further and more dtfficult ~non1aliPs than ihose existing· at th? pro.sent ti1n0. One oi the f(' u3ons •sh--:· thJs rnutter h-,,, been dealt \Yith more fr~qucnt_ly by Southern Sta trs than in Queen~1and IS due to the f:td that in most of the Southern Shttcs there i~ an inadequat0 proviRion und<;r tho laY\·s of thost• Statr-;;. For example, 1n \~ictoria. lhcr" IJCVPI' Ins been a full :md c;nnpletP .<:-y~1r:Jn of _ _iJ~du.~tdal. arbitration. an cl con :'or ::ynenilT. \· IctorJa b01ng a large 1 n_-~nuf ,cturing State with a largo popula­tion. hc1s hccn forced h go tn the Com­n1onvYen lt h er ~ut a ncl ha·~ bccPnlO used t 0 working unrlc ,' Conlm:,nwealth a \Yarcl~. Tn ccrtilill ind.tnt.ric..: 11 1 "0 in Nc\Y South \Vnl,·-: jl1rrc h: s brcn oYrrhpping· of St~tl' q 1rl Co::·rt:n:.onv:f'a 'tth co·Ht- ad i_vjt'!.es. \Yhich

l111r- ~ri\'t'n ri3;:~ io diffirult-i( 3 fron1 tin1c to t-iHJP. n·c nth, in the l .rgc

·;ili,~h took -;n th, t tt~otion of l cn1plo· e:r:::. under Fcdf ral a \.Ydrds

.,, ·r'-' (L r.dY 1 obtain8 b1c under the rn·ovisions of a Stn.to r"1Y cnvn view i" that these activities should be the subject of control and proper agreement as between

the States and ihe Co~tunonwcalTli. It- :;h011lcl be po:-:. ild:• for tbo \·arioth f;f-lh's to han• adPquatf' indu'-trial law~ to cope \Yiih all indn~1Ticd !ll'oblerns within the it· clonw in. The Jlrt::;id<~Jlt:'1 ()f the yaricn::; State .._-\rbitra­tioll Court...:: should fonn <L Full Ft•dc~ral {_

10urt. and be the authority to decide nny tnati.cr of interstate dispute or import, and to la.y do\n1 ba"ic principles for the Yarious authoritie>.< in the StaleR to carry out. That i~, lo ;.)ay. t1H• St".tf" \Ynulcl be ~u}n,::~rnc within tlwi1· own don1ain. adPqualc indn::;trial la\\·::; hnYing to he proYidcd b)-' tht> variou::;; ;::,tnre Parlian1ent". antl tl1e PrPsiclrnt:;; of th(~ varion:; SLat• ArGih·ation c:otn·1-, having lo n1ePt nPriodic1lh· as a Full Court io dPal with ~ny FedL·;d maitl'l', and ktYing tlw authority tn S(~ttlc certain principh,,, or rnattcrs of di~puh" with reg-ard to interstate actiYitics. Tho advantag...} of ::;uch a propO''ll is inllnediatcly a 1 )parcnt, b0causf~ ono Jnus1 J"OalisP that the ,~0ry f'",soncf' of successful control of intlustrial matters is to bo found ln the s'">ccd with whi-ch a court ean opor.ah'. One d thf' serious clcfceh of tho Common­wcclih Arbitration Court is the doiay which takes place bdor<' any body can have its daims dealt with by iL

.i'!Ir. KERR: That can bo rcnwdi<'<L

The SECRETARY FOR "\GRICDL'rURE: In Uw pastoralists' caso I bolievo it tDok tho Amtralian \Yorkcrs' Union 0\-er three vcars before tho court hoard tho plaint., In that connection I might say that before 1neroa"0d power is given to the Federal Governnwnt-or to anv Government, for that matt2r-wc ought to "bo sat.isficcl that they have exhausted to the full the powere thev now have. I have alwavs bec·n satisfied that the C<lmmonwealth Pruliament has ha cl pO\'VPr to rcn1edv th0 1nost obvious defects of the pl·c<;ent.-d'fl.y Ft'-d.cral la\vs regarding mbitra1ion, if it felt so disposed, \Vith all its <lef{•ets--hrl\·ing rcg-n.rd to t11f• 'yPak­nesscs jn cP-rta1n respoct:=:.-I run prepared to "greo that the Commonwealth Arbitra,tion Cmu(, has done good work anrl can contmuc io do ~o,

Let me clcal ,,-ilh the immediate proposah before us, Briefly, it is proposed by the present Commonwealth GovPrnment that the people of the States should agree t<l give them power to create a t.t·ibunal which will he snpren1o in industrial 1natters. 'J.1hat is a clear and definite outline of ihe proposal, stripped of all verbiage. The Common­wealth Gm·crnment are asking the people of the Stat0 to agree to W";t (,he Common­wealth Parliament with power to create a tribunal to have control of industrial matters. Hon, members will notice that t.]JO question, stated in that way, does not involve the general principle of whether the Com· monw( :dth Parliament shonltl be vest·'d with greatet· pow£>n; or not. Th0 suggost.ion has been n1ade b,v certain Opposition speakers that the power~ now sought for are E>irnilar to tlw powors asked for by the Fisher Go­,-crmncnt ~o1nc :vc:1.r~ ago. I wish to sty l'mphaticallv ihat that is not so, \Vhat i·l10 Labour GovPrnment asked for on that oct·a~ion was that the Con11nonwca1th Parlia­ment be n !l'<l ,,-ith those nowers. In this ra~P tlw Comn101Pn•a1t.h Government ar0 as:kincr lL"i to a.2,'l'Cf' to vest in a. tribunal con1-JlOEC'd of pennanent jndgT..; po\". er to deal with all industrial conditions, "'hich ar0 n<nv the proper and lrgitirnnt0 conr('l'.l of the v~riou:;; Statos. I have Yery definite objcc~ llOTIR to l"UCh [I prnpos,tl. I ar!l 0 1)p0.'iCd

.f'nt.in..,ly lo YC",ting in an,y t.ribnnnl pO\VCJ'R

Ill

Y'i'hich proped:v o.;hould !J,. exercised by Parlia it.;(•] f. I ~, ~-·-and CYC'rvonf' n1n~t thn iruth uf the propositio;1-that tlw

fltHCtiODS (.,f g-uYCl'llHH~llt ha\"C inevitably ,,,tended during the l:l't decade, GoYern­lltt:nb not only here Uul· also c1-:c1Yhere haYc 10 deal tn a i1·c ~Li"8r ch·~~Tee than cn.>r befor 11·irh Yital m·,tte~·s which affect lho lifo of 1 lH•ir p·.'ople. C.Jl1~("1uently, cYery Par1ia-

lllellt in the ·world to-dav ha-< !)2 non11.] 1110~1 of its titllC'· tak( .'! lip· in

d ·nling with tho.;e ~nbjlcts. l lian~ no ohjt~ction to f'Olll"tf-l- being \'P~tcd with J ,o,-.: c·r:; io f\J,rr v out. Pa rliun1C'nt' s dc~ires. Pa.rlia1nUl~ h its \'Ol'\~ nature fannot assunl(' t !w functionS of a 'judicial tribunal, and ~hould neve1· a~: un1l\ thos:; fnnctio11s nnle:-, in vei> cxtrcrnc 1 a::_f's, as Act out in the Constitution itsclL 'The methods hy which t.lll' judicial tribunal mav bo C'stablished awl ihe pmnrs that it sh,;ll exercise is the dPfinitl• funf'tion of a PatliarnPnt to make. alter, and abolid1 a..:; occa:::ion dcmu~nds and as pnblic policy justifies. That is the essen­tial, diff,,rence bl't,Ycen onr policy and the pollcy of tho F0deral Government, The ( ~onunnnwcalth Govcrn1nent. arc endeavour­ing to eYado tho legitimate obligations of P;:~rlianH'nt by creating· un outside authcrit)-r 1nth grPatPr powers than Padia11H~nt is ""'king for itself,

'.Vir, KERH: Parliament can amend, The SECHETARY FOR AGRICULTCHE:

I£ the Cornmonw0dth Government were ask­ing for those power~ to be cxerciAed bv th ·· J~~~liaancnt it:->?lf, it ·would be an :ntin~I~ (llirere11t. qn('sbon; hut thry <ne u kn1_; tn~· 1 woplo to >..."OE·~ent to t.110 :-0tting up of tribnnal jn the Fed('ral arena with greatei~

.n;,·pr~ lh~ul Pnrlin.rn0nt po,;;;cocws. l\I1·. \Vati. a. n1einber of the HonsP of

Ht'lll'L,('nt ·_tiYc:-<, auJ. a. man ''"ith cousider­ablt""' {'apa(·lty ln cornL:ction with thcsv 1natt0rs. a1Hl one of the fo-..,y n1C'!1 in t}w ... :\Tational::-;t part.\ ut the prP~cnt tirrH' 'vho lPl~ apparPntJy gl':bpPd th0 p:; nntial signifi­t'nnco of thf"1'-t~ ihlng-s, hnd tl1i~ to s.av ill Fc•d0ro I ;; Hansard ''- ,

.; I wi,h to wake it perfectly plain that I deeply regret the attitude of the (~o\~crnnlcnt . . . . . in proposing to, !~·in=- power to authorities which cannot 1)o discharged OYen by Parliament. itself. ,\n ap;e:nt of this Parlian1cnt \Vill be per­mitted to do things >Yhich this Parlia· HWnt. eonld not be allowed to do itself.'~

TLerP is a dPfinite clt:'ar :-;tatenlcilt of a J'Pspon.siblP pablic nlUIL

J\h, EDw.ums: ~What did :\Ir. Charlton· say'?

Th<· SECRETARY FOR AGRIC'CLTURE: :\11'. \Yatt i~ a 1nan of conf'iderable capacity. nnd "ell quolili0d to give " doonito opinion en tlw~o rnattcrs. 1\Ir. Ilughe.:, i5 another authority who connot bo lightly brushed a:-<ide in n1attcr~ affectiu~~, 0ither U)nstitn-1 i1mal prinriples c:.· indu:;:trial n1atters. Hc­ngT('f'S l'lltirtd~· ·with the dictun1 of :11:r, V\'att in tonnection ,,-ith this rnatter. \Ve see thf: F, :1Pral ParlianH.nt support:d by hou. Pl''lnb:'l'S oppn"itP. '\hO aro pr~:pitxed t..o

l1:ttlo a' 1 v tlw T10\Y('rs of Parlinn1ent and (~ out~id0 :,uihoritics -~y,lJich arc not con­

h) ih·-. ~,-o,.y·1 Q"OYenHnt.'nt nnd "\Vell­cf th~:-: Cuwrr:or-:\n n.Hh. J arh·=:.:o Vf'l"V

h- .::nv n~n.n \dto ]w~ the bcs; intcl'rst:;:; of c:u20'n ln}lll c.;t, henrt Sii"O!!.~-l_v to OppO<c ~ 1\J' er( a+:OI: of ~n ,h ~111 H' lbnrih-. nr:d t 1

Y(;1;• and lF·n F\'0rv intlu~'nuJ nt hi::; di~po:-;.' [ n t;>"! in:"t thn gTantin., of thc.~e povrcrs .

If on. TV. Por,gan Smith .1

[ASSE:VIBLY.j

~\lr. I'.CLHH: ThP La Lour }1,'1'1' they stnud on the f .::ix1 and :scyens.

do Pot knO\\.

They are

The SECHJCTARY~ FOR ).GHICCLTCHE: 1 Iner!tiorH d c:rrrlicr in 11!V rernarks that t•11iiicaiion i~ a Rttbjcct for si!ecial study and jH\'L ~tjgaljoll, and -·~wuld considc,rcd {'lllirelv on jts n1erih H'HJ ,~ ith in a perft-cily open w::ty. The sccuri11g of greater fJO'Wcrs by rnea.ns of subtcrfu:;·e is entirely a {11~;\•rf'nt rnattcr, (l.nd shoul<l be rcsi~ted.

Another indication of the attitULle of tho Connnon1vcalth WJs Recn at a l'ecrr~t lllC'Ct­

inrt of the ~1ini:3tcriu.l DairY Council, where a bo,Jy canw to Brisbane,~ attended con-1cre::1c.j ca.llc.d h" Senator \Yilson, the then ::Hinistc~c for ~'"iarkc<ing in the Cmnn1on­'"'"ealth ParliauH~nt., nnd so'lbllt our agree­ment to t.ho schi:1g up of a not hPl' authority in tho ugricultural ;nena. I might oxplnin for t.he benefit of hon. nwkber~ that under the CommonYc<'nlth la\YS, mentioned by the hon. lHt._'lllber for Cooroo:_a .vf'sterday, th(~rc has been established an Australi" n Dairv Export Control Board, on 11 hieh the variotis States and inLrests aro r•")rosf'nted. They have certain ft11Jctions to c•JlTY out~ aud to some extent they havo carr!od them out yery successfully. I haYc nothing to say againBt the principle~ of h>Ying such a board. and giYing· th'•J~l sufiici,,·;~t authority and powf:'r to Sf:!l uro co-ordinati"-n jn the varioE:-. ~rut•s o:n lna-':t-'•rs nf {'Xpol·t. 1t i~ dL~irabl<' rhu-r proc~u~ · ~hcnld be c·xpol tN1 fr01n Aus­trvlin in lJ1.1lfc>r1n f, tade::-.. Jr j-; thcrpfon· lH· c .... 'l..l'V bJ LaY(· urnfit.J contn•l '-'O that that

·cnn ~)(' Lr·ougllt .brrd~·.

Tho F;PI•~.\I\.FH.: Order! The• holl. n1em­h2r L~1:-; l'xhaw-tc:d the tiH1•· <tllo\Vl'd him ll1HL·r th•· St, .. l diJi£1.· OrrlcTB.

"''r, }~_·\Hl~:r·:H 1 1J,1, 1 r..;-,',11; 1 ,~,"".r/,i·,',, I ht:r~· i" 1 rnoYe 1lH ).Fitic-'" ··· ,. · ._ · · an extensio11

io .·onti;n.H' hi SlJC('('ll.

Q1 stion JHl~ nud lHi ·tL

Ti:c' SKcT:ET FOll AGHlCliLTUHE: tit. dk. ;1011. l'.-; f Jr ! n· (·oo.n·' ;--;v tl:oW11

rnr•. l rope ~hat it is d·. ·il·nblP that' unified control of _ radc:.: ~ ould exc.:.·eised in the ('I'Uunon<Yt~·dth that ~hall btJ no di;"parity in , and t-- 1 thnT our brand~ -::hall be kno~,yn recogEi~t cl (Ill 1 he ,;rorldls tr. ·l'k·~ t:;.. That :·Jf'fllls that c· nditious of indust··y '"ill 1JC' lu1pron~d avd tho price oht,ined fol' Olll' exported rJl'O~~UC0 enhauced. llo\\ eV'T, like 11tany oihPr pcoplP once the,y haYf' b~c,,n est tbli::::hed, certain pco_1lc C"Oll­

cein-,d thP ich_">t that they rni.f~·ht h(~ mnployed to do c-thr..:r thinf[", c.:on.s0qtwutly they ('ame tn thE' 5-Iini.~tr-rjnl Dairv Council, \Yhich i:; ( "t)Il1J')Os~d of tlw vari'ou.::; f:!cf·l·;:··tnries fen· _.\.gTk·~-lturf' nncl tlie Feel ral ~Uni~·:t0r, and <-t.=,,keJ that v;e giYo thn11 statutory authority to do cc·l tain thing~. tdJich n. lly \\'Olll{l

haYP nlC}ant the st:ttiug up of an Agricul­! ttral l)epartrnt nt cpcra'ting- entirely through­ont thA ColnJ:lonv;,·f':dth ont~irl0 th d c:ontrvl of auv of ihr: I)Erliarue>11ts in An::-:tralia. The \-, .. ~·iolH },fini:,: TS. aft. ·r di.,:cu~siou. refusPd to ha n: .nythlng- ·to do \Vith the proposal~. and tlwv laid clown dcfinitclv "-hat should f~t• 1h~ functiOns of t·h0 C',,lni~H~tnYca1th and St ah• GovcrnrnPnts in r{'g·;:u·d to those mtdtN'. I lll<'ntion this to ,he!': thn.t thcr<' i~ ,_, t" ndency on tht: !lUYt of the ~aHonalist pfll·~y in the Federal Parlian1cnt at the pn:.sent tirHo to e-xtend into the lcgiti1natc fuucUons of the State and to sC't up autho­riti< ; out"side the proper control of the .,-ariou~ Parljan1ents.

[Hon. IY. Forgan Smith.

TiH' hon. HWni.ber for Cooroota, HI the ,our;-;' cf h1.:.: -..lJCl'(h JC::Jtclday, "aitl that the board of -,, lllch he rl a member I: ad do no gn:n.t thinr . I du not 1.vant to du.:;courag:o tlw hon. rncmbet in any good 1vorlt he 1s doing, ~nit J y;ould r~m1i1~d .}1i~11 that the work of t-ltat boar . .::l rs lrmt~.ed, and any adYancl' in ag·ricultural lnattPr., is subject to the \""ork uf the vuious Stato Govern­tHCDl~.. The ho:1. 1norrtbcr rnust not assnn1e, hcc<t:"c tlwv have done certain things. t.hat thev ha vo ·entire cont.rol of the ituatwn. The~ hoJJ. member also complained that the UoYcrnor'.J Sptech did not gi_vo the Com­munwealth credit for those tlungs. Appar­,,nth i he hc~L member has a poor idea ~f '~'h?~t GoYernor's Speeches should consist of. l ro:-nind hin1 that the esta_blislnnent. of t'l~> eonh·ol board th3.t he lauded so Hlnch was largely tho ,,-ork of the Quee:r:sl.and Council Df .L\.gricnlture, who took the nutia.­tivc in this matter. They asked the. C?m­rnon,,_-t,alt.h GoYtl'nmcnt to give thorn srm1lar powen to tlwoc given under the ~ew Zea­J,,ntl Duirv Act. A Bill was finally passed lw the l'ommonwealth Parliament, which gl:tYe ~onte benefits but did not give_ a_ny­t hi nee like the conditions that an Act similar to tile Xcw Zealand Act would have given. I am proparccl t-o accept the Act as it stands in lion of something better, but those who hnve the iutercEts of tho dairying industry at lll'nrt should continue to press for the fnrthc·r Dowers that were asked for by dairy­n:ClJ, not oniv in Queensland, but throughout the Yarious States of the Comn1onwealth.

I t1o not lH'Opose io abuse the conrtesy .~ho\"'. 11 to nlc by unduly extending my ~:pco'C'h. and \vill conclude by stating that t"he CubilJet and all hon. member"' of this nart\ fullv reali:-lc tho r..-:~ronsibilities of ~h-:i1: po~ition. This Parlia1nent. in cornm_on \\·ith others, hnxo difficult problmn3 vnth which lo deaL cOlJ!'f:Gu:ntlv those problenlR :,}}ou]d be cleaJt \Yith_. in a proper rnanner nHcl alwa~-s wif1 the n1otivc of providing for the· bc~t. interests of the v-:holo of the fH (1;}1('· nf this sr 'te. In li~tening to soma e:f the hull, 1111 ~nbers ..,_,_-ho have taken part in t1Ji;; d bntt' I c.Jncludo they do not appear to I'oaljsc at all their responsibilities a1 n1cmlwr::> of ParlianH~nt. ':rhev deal with pt•ttifogg~n~~- tl.tine:s~ tlwy n1j:;rc:·prcsP11t. and the"< understate various facts about which th ·,- should be clear. If Queensland is to -·ontinnc• 1 o n1akc prog-res·~, there are iinpor­tant matters to be dealt with by this Parlia­Inent. The Go\rernn1ent. realise their respon­sibilitY in the matter and leak to all mem­bei':-- L:i 'P1'ulianlellt to assist in dealing with thn~e probl0tns in a n1annc-r 'vhich \Vill result in bc·]l(·fli. ·to this State.

Con·m~'cFXT l\IniBERB: Iloar, hear!

,.. TA'CLOR (!Vindsor), who was r<'<-Pived with Opposition cheers, said: I liH<'ncd with cdnsidcrable interest to the r(•rur:: k.;; of th0 Sccretar:'\7 for Agriculture in cnn1lt'f·tiun with tho referenda proposals of tlH' Druc>,·-Pnge Governrncnt. After listen­in~ to the };on. gentle1nan anyone would think that theru v ... ·as a band of brigands at t.hP bead of the present Comlnonwt:alth GoYer1nucnt. -..dw ,_vcre out to filch-not. only from 1 he people of Queensland but from the \rholn of the \vol'l\:ers of Au-t:tralia-every l'ight \Yhich the: at present enjoy.. The ~ccret.ary for Agriculture knows that such ~taternnr~t, are r:ot correct. If there is ono 11tan UJO!'C than another who stands out on

[5 AL:Gt:ST.] 11 :J

t.lle Lorizotl of Au.-::trnlian nt thP prestmt 1in1c. I claiHl that. it our present Prinw 1IinistcT.

OP_ro~·lTIOX =\1E~\lB1~HS: Eicttr, hear:

::..lr. TA YLCH : \V e have had ~o1ne Yery $;OOd Prinu• l\linist"'r3 directing the affair~ of \:,is Conln10lT\YCa1th, a.I•·l we nwy ha\'"" had. 1,np to ~·:::1u:d l\Ir. B1·ucP, bnr c:-rtainly we have not h~ad one to snrpnss hi1n. That i~ prO\":'d l1:v hi3 pfficie,:ny in t~1o l.taEdlillg of th.:; afi:'airs of the Con1n1onwcalt.h :;::Ince he has had ccr:ti·ol of its d' 'liniu. I dra·,,. the attci<tion uf hon. 11101nbers to the fart that the Sccrc~ary for Agriculture ould like them io underst-and that the only people 'vho are supporting thes•· proposals are sup~ port~rs Gf tho Brucc-Pagc Goyer1nnent. Everv hon. mPmLer knows perfectly \vell that" a n~o::t 0xtrnordinary thing happened before these proposals were brought before the Federal Parliarnent, that a conference was hold bet-ween the Prime J\Iinister, Mr. Brncc, and Mr. Char~ton. the loader of the Labour party, to see 1f they could not come to some ag-reement as to what form the proposals should take when placed before the people d Australia. That conference was hdd, and these two men-Mr. Charlton, leader of (.he Federal Labour party, and Mr. BruC<\ iho lea.der of the Xationalist wing of the Federal GoYernrnf'nt-came to an agrr·ement as to the form in which the pro­posa~ should be placed bdore the people of Australia.

lv'Ir. B:~LT-<..:: Thrrt is not .so. )Jr. CharhGn lnOYC'd CJn nJnrndment i11 tho Iion:·<·, hich 1Ya3 dis~qT·_·cd to.

~~Ir. T~\1~LOH: I-Ic ' . .-as iD ~~<~rc~~nlPt::t 'v:ith the Prin-t0 :.linistcr in reg,·· rd to pro-pc· ~ls. I!c did tnon-: an ~Urncndn1PHt thP Hon~P. lut tL.·:t "\\'a~.; prior to the c\rrrc•cm ~nt heit:g come to.

Thr~ s~c d~T.\RY j 0B AGIUC1.L1 :\Ir. Ch;:rlton a:-.lzerl that Par!in 1 :1C·H1 h,~ f"i vcn thP 1 ~o·.,·{ !'.

:\lr. T'_)._ \-LOH: \rby j::; he ;-:lppndir:;· th·:

'That

.YJr. TA YLOR: Ther<> arc Yor,· divided opinions in t .gard to thcc0 pr0110sals in all S'~<::tions cf the comrnunit y to-dav, but tho_·c• i::; no rr.,J,SOll ,.vhatever. \Yhy, fts thn Ser:teta.ry for Agriculture said <t few rnorncnt-, ago, the Pritne J\Iinister should onzloavour to g-et thc'o proposals throug-h by mea~~.g of subterfuge. He i~ placing the propo · :tls b6ore the people of Australia and asking the;n to vote on the matter, :vet the Secretary fm· Ag-ri< '>ltnrc a few rnomcnt.s ago s:aid the Prin10 211inii~\"cr \'i'as endcavouriTI-g to g0t thcn1 v-as;;;ed by 1neans of a ~ubtcrfugc. That is not t-ho 'vay to criticise the Prijno l\fin1ster, 'vhose intiJn­tious <tre jn.;t us hi::,·h and just a\ honourable .as tho"'e of ih0 l\Iintst.-n~ who ha,, just spoken. 11C>In:-td<s such as tlw hon. gontl.:~1nan 1nade arc- :not. fair crjtici~nl. and Cdl'tainlv should not corno fro1n a l\tlinist0r on tfw front G-overnn1ont benC'h. A local pap0r last Sunday published a n1anife~to whirh has been is<:.red bv the Co:rn1nonwealth Council of Federated V -Unions of A.ustralia, giving t.ho rea'<)ns vrhy thDy are I\:rornnwnding the unionis'ts of Australia tu YOt0 for tho fE'fcrcnda proposahs. rl'he articlP concludes-

" The Comtnonvvealth Council cnn rightly chim to reprcst•nt tlw majorit:v of U!Iioni;::t:3 using the Fcd{·:'al Arbitra~

ln

lion Conrt, 'tlld fr<el that ll nou]d he~ lackiito- 111 thP n1ain function for \vhich It wn; c~_lled Jnto l~eir'g-, if it dld net ;, ivu a le• ad and. arhicf• t) l~nion_ist~, when an opportunity prP~ ~'nt,~d It:~lf._ to obtain an alteration i11 th~, Con'~tnutJon. -,\hi eh tYill n1ake for si .1plif!cat ion, uni­fonnitY, and lLss co~t1Y :methods i11 thP fixi:np: 'of wages, houl's.- and the gcrreral working· conditions nf the workf>r

'· 'lhf' council being conYinc 'et that 1t:-; attitude on thiR Yital qut:si ion is tho correct. one, strongly nrges all workers to vote ' v1·s ' on the qtu:- .. f Jn of inerca -ing tho ' ~ndustry and cou1n1eree ' po\vers of the Fcdnal l'arlic.rnont.

"Sig-ned on behalf of thl.'\ Conln1oll­wealth Council of Fedceratcd Unions­

" President-A. LOXG (Boot E1np!oyeP:::.' Ft>dera­

t.icm). ';\....-iu·-Pre:~ddcnt;;;-

C. B. M<:XDY (Awalg·amalcd Engineerillft Union).

A. S. DRAKEFORD (LocomotiYo Enginemcn).

''Executive-C. J. BEXXET (Blacksn1iths~ Society

of Au')tralia). ll. L'AHTEH (..:\tnnJ~a~:: t•',t Clothiz;g

Trades). H. \'. 1\:_t·~AXE (.-\1.13traiia:l Tiaih·;ay5

Cnion). , P. _, ·"Y_;_HS (S,"ddlr·rs. Tanners, .and

Lv,dh 1·-dresscr/ Feclcr"_tiou). S. E. l'n\TT (Australiau Jour­

ca,}i,!- ,' ~\ssoei •tic.nl. '· Sf'ITeL!l'\.-

C. C :'JFTS (Fcdorat, :-1 Ga:-' EHl­l> 11 l).['f• ~ · F nioli} •

Irad\ .·, _Uall. ~"ldbe:nrnc."

no jusrificatio:! for tiw t Le ~Iini~ter nutdt• on

( :o\·( ''!l!llOllt Yrith regard to 1 l ~ c~' t • pr,

Th. FO'l ~\GnlCTLTUBE: abo~. t it.

Tl1cre VIES !JO

;\Il'. T-k\ YL/lH: T~:;co ~\Iini~tt•r ~hou1d know thctt th0 cmn!·dic..tti:-.::Hs at pre·'e~.!t exi3ting },c•t:wcon d:·' S 1 ate Arbitration Court . ., and the F'cdcral A1·Litrnl"ion Court are caut3-ing ; o end of irotl~)lf' throughout Australia \',-hrct is the posit inn to-day~ A union can p;o to the Federal Arbitr; tion Court and <···et an award in c·t) fa.l' a3 \Ya_;cs and hOUl'ci ~re concerned. It can al~o go to a State court and get all a ~~rard in conncctio!l with the same matters. If the wag·cs m the Federal award are n1oro satisfactory than those in the State~ atvard, they can clairr1 the Frrlet·al flY arc! rates. If the hom·s arc longer under dw FcclPral a.'vard, they can clain1. to wol'l~ under ihc State a.,. ard. I~ it ihinkabl<' that such a state of afiair,; should continnc· ·~ \\.,.ith rc,~-ard to the pro­posed tribunal >:hich the _Minister spoke q_bout a f(!'\V l1!(1IHent., ago~ sEnilar quc;;:hon.., ~-and I challt•lls>.', the I\linistcr or auy ho11. rne1nbor oppo::-itt':' effcctiYcly to deny it-\verl• submitted to th'~ people by two Labour "dministrations. I venture to say tlHtt tho :Jiinister Yctt'd for them.

The SEClET\HY FOH AGRIClJL:n;HE: I cer­tainly vat; cl for .them.

::\lr. TA YLOH, I£ they had been carried at t~at particular .t;mc, hov:, w~re th~ ~ro,; posa1s gonH~· 10 ne carriPn rnto cffL:ct.. \Vould i:n: - t.lie UoYcrnmPnt of that day iwYc been compelled to do exactly the same

Mr. Taylor.]

120 Add1ns in Repl;;, [ASSE:\fi3LY.] Addtess in Reply.

a~ BtL, t'-Pag-c Govcrn1n0nt. would do~ ti1:-n f ~tablif3h tribunal? There ,"ca.s nn oth(·~· \.~17 out it. 1~ Parliament to be thu clPbatit;i.; ground wh('l'O ilH.iustTial dis-

arC' to be ;;;.cttl0d? Is Parliament-and 110t ~1n:a king clcroga to1~ily of n1crn bf' r~

P;t i:lianiPnt---thc 11laco \n1rrc hou1·) ana \" w ~ ~ho,~lJ be iixeJ for the "\<,-orkers of Vuc·cn,c;,nd or An,tralia? \Ye havo all to d0pend 011 the ,-oh~s cf . t!w t~l<'ct.or.'~. \Vo \Yaut, to ren1oH: all suspicion In rrgard to 1 i1is H'1t~cr, nncl lea, ye tho fix in~· of hotu·-. uf iabon:r and rai- s of wages to a tribunal ,.,-hieh i.3 'b:-:olutnly rc-.ponsiblc to Parlia­nlP' t for ,_vhat it do.·.;,;, If Padi<!,IJlCllt creates. t)ad},_ n1t'nt. c:nn dt:;:;.troy. I ,dn not gcing to !'nlh'-s that line of arguntent ~~ny long0r; lmt. Sd far ns the rcfnrcnc1J."'l IHO}Jo::·:.tls aro 1 o:JceriH'{l, I lwlinYc the~- nrc going to bo canicd. .\t nll cvr,nts, I hope they arc, lwcn.n· c Lo one in Australia. to-day can Yi8w Y.-ith Lquaninlity the illtlustrial troub]c.,; "·hich h '"" hee'1 Lloeking onr progres; for the h'~t civht. or ten ycal's or '""ith any dcs;rc• dwt they ,d·wulu cont.inuc. Are there otber con~Ftui:ional n1ethods than thos0 which the Pritnf~ ::'~linistcr has adopt<~·d-that is, subrnittinr.s thc~w prcpo-=als to thf\ people .1nd asking the1n to give their Yerdict on the (JUP:;.tion? In ·wh.tt fairr•1' Ol' Inorc honour­dbie wav could th•- object be br Jught .about?

\Yith ,regard to the per capih payments, there ar•l certain moral obligations "hich the Ccn:nllOTI\Yealth has in rcgal'd to the Sta.tes; int r:1crc is no moral obligatio:1 whatever th.tt tlw Commonwealth shall continn' the capit.ation payn1ent:1; and it j., absurd for hon. nH·nlbcrs to get np her: and say that there is a moral obligation. It \\'US pro,·ided in tho Federal Constitution that from the ':'-Hl'rJlU.:\ reYenlws of custon1s and excise for a 1- _,riod ,J€ ten y('·ars, there RhoulJ be rnturned 1<1 the f\tates three-fourth' o[ that ,urplus l'f'V(UUC.

Hon. D. A. CLED'oOO<: And the:~ recon­,idcrcd.

:VIr. TAYLOH: :'\o. The wo1·tls in the Con::;ti•ntion art~ "'until Parlia1ncnt other\\-i'"'t' pnH·id«'s.~'

Hon. D. "\. GLEDSOO<: That is so.

:\Ir. TA YLOR. Those are the words in the Constitution. and Parliament did provide otherwise. It brought in the capitation pay­ments, and in 1910, after the (;astoms and cx<:ise reYennc had lasted its period, it r a3sed out of the Constitution. It was not a part of the Co11stitution any longer. It was put there for the- ten years; then 1t passed ont. and the capitation pa)·mcnt was substituted. That has continued till the present time. I am not going to be so foolish "-' ·~ :.:and here nnd say that it has not b0cn f1, b(:nl"'fit to thn Ya1·ious States. because it has been u b0ne1it to them.

The St:CRET\RY FOH AGRICcLTCHE: The States share in it

Mr. 'L\ YLOR : Tlw States a r0 sharing J10\v in the Con1rnonwualth l'P-YC'llli('. Refer· ring for the rnonwnt to th~~ n1oral obljg-at.ions of -thf' Cmnn1un;,vcalth, thu Federal GoYC'rn­rncnt h~lXl'. rr:alised during the l2.~t fc1"'· years 1h(~ diilkultic··· ~orne of tho St;d::-·~ ,~·ere in ·with l'P~l> .rd to thei t' fmmlc< ""· a nU the~; carnn to f,l""~ir nc;...;i~tflllCC, jnst. US the' V/OUid have to ('Ol1H' to the a>,;;i~hinCf of rhi:'; f)tate-I hope j r v;, 111 ncYt:r bC' ncc,,·~~ary---('r any other ~tatP \YLich r; c1 L1 jl'(~d a.,-~daJ1C".

Hun. P. A. GLEDSOl'r: Do von ' ant c1s to be ~uppliatlt" to the Con1rrlO!lYic:-,lth?

f:llr. Taylor.

1\[r. TA YI.OH.: \~\''1: do not waut ta be in the poiition of "llppliants to the Cornm~m­'n'•lth in .ordPr to UUTV on Stato affan·s. SurcJy, , -p ,11fi-lcie~t1-,- st.ronf!' vvithin ('Ul'"'elYc::;-t onr::::elve~ a '"ove1:eign State v·ith :-:oYcrcign rights-to rais(~ \v1t.h1n our bourularies the 1noncy neressary to carry on the affair~ of our State. \Ye do not \vant 1o bo suppLa:lt.;:: to thr Commonwealth.

If the C'unllll<)n\r..·cahh Govtrnmont had pro­posed to retain the taxati?n th 'Y are taking jn other '"-aY.->. the question of the capita­tion pa~VllH'n.t.., rnight ha ,·e been raised; but i hf'v an~ not. \Yhen the ·war can1e on ~hf' Cm_-nrdO!.l,Ycalth GoYerninent, <:harged w1th the defencr> of Au~tralia, found that, in ordor to rai ·-~ 1lu' 1nonev ncc1_·g:;;ary to carry. on that 1, •• Jrk, the,v had to 1 ,,me into the vartous Statr" antl r:1 i:12 htYC:<.. Now they propose to "' acuate tlw Held of taxation which they then enr0rccl. Who is better able to judge· of thn tax-paying capacity of a people, who can .ca:y Lc'tLI'l' ,:.-hn.t a p~ople can st~~d) than the GoYernnw,:lt g-urdn1g the d(::'3tinH.'''• of a Sta :c? Snrcl y, the Government who are ll'uidi11g the destinies of this State know j uct » c•xacil; w hi eh is the best me~hod of collecting L•xes to carry on the busmess 0f tho State. The Commonwealth, of course, ha vc made c0rtain proposals to the wholP of the State Governments, and the whole of the State Governments are opposing them, a•1d there is no doubt that it is rt1ther a s;•rious position. 'IKc realise that, when tho State Gov0rnmcnt bring forward fres~ taxa­tion proposals. they will have to ra1se the' present tax<'S to the level they !;ad reached with the Commonwealth taxes m order to cal'l'V on the activities of the State. \Vh~t is '~Tonr!' about that? The only ~~ay rn d1ich I think it may be possible for a St?-h' to lose by the proposals is where populatwn in that State is increasing, because under the prc.;cnt ,syetem the State gets £1 5s,. pc1· head for all additional persons m 1t. I have g-ive>n the qu<'stion quite a lot of study, and I fail to eec that the proposaJs are g?mg to do any injury to any State m the Com­tnonwealth. hut I did not intend to spcal: o_n those matter' until tht'· :Minister made Ius speech.

The Sp" cch of His Exee!lency, th:" Lwutcnant-Governor at the openmg o. Pa!­liament. is not so remarkable for what 1t

.contains as for "·hat is left out. I fall to­sec anvthing in it to inspire very grea.t con­fidence" durh1g- the next three .years m the­goYcmnwHt of the affair~ of tlus State. Re­ference Js made m the first place to t-1;? e;.:­GoYernor and the excellent work he md ~n QuecHsland. Thern is no doubt that he d1~ excdlent wmk One or t":o members o~ th:, GoYrrnn10nt ::ado }wye said It vrould ~;c d

good thing if wo had local Governors. Thev said that we had 111 Queensland men of ., bilitv equal to that of any who could be :ent '0 ut by tho fmp.;rir I Go-:ernment to adminiot"r our affairs. \Ve adm1t that: Wo ha Ye ne YC'r ~,lid anything in Ucpreciahon of r he JncH in our own State or the Con1n1on­'"calth. Jn fact, I suppose if you. aske_d every one qf the :-.cYcnty-two n1en In tlns. Chainbcr fo take 01J the job. ev<.~ry ono of thcn1 ,, mdd :· 1y .. )!"cs," EO that thel'f~ are ,<:\·ent,~>t\YO po;;;siblc GoYPrnors here at hn~d. On the ~--·o:.·e of El bilit.~, w,_, have nothing· \',hHt \'tr to t'u~:: bnt ,,:o do think that t~H· appoint ,1cnt of Go,·crnor. (;nght not to ho. i!1 the hand:~ •1f Jt(V pohttcal party \'rhiCh happens ro Le in po\\·er when the: Yaca:ncy occurs.

13 AecesT.] ~.J ddrcss in Reply. 121

Hc.n. ]). A. Gr.ED:,OK: It. is not. so now? Are not tlt\• G .. on)rnorB \\'C get rncn IYith politics·:

:'l'lr. T.\YLOH: l m not so fooli>h as to ~<, ~· that t hP 1nen who eonw out herP ha.Yo no j"JOlitic~. Tlwy haYc, but they do not ahu3c• i:llC'Il1, aud thev never have abu:- .;d them. \Ye ktYc a far· better onporbmity of h-tYing impartial administrat'ion \vith a Co .. -enHil' '' ho j., not as,·ociatcd directly ot·

indirectly with any of the parties r12.30 p.t11.~1 1n the Parliarnents of r'\.ustralia

to-cl- y. For that t'oason I hopo thf' dale• 1~ YC'l'Y far distant when we shall a.llolish t)w y~tcn1 of in1porting our Gover­JJors. If thcro C'•:cr "\Yas a tiu1e when IYl' shoulJ be )li'l'jHU'l'cl to strengthen rather tha't !oo,jcn th(~ ties of E1npin~. it is 1Jle present time. The oh_l cotu:try, 1o 1rhmn .,Ye O\~~·o so much. hn ·been a great friend to the people In .Austraha. \YP ",,could I!Ot haYe been on tlw map for twenty-four hours in 1914 had tlwre not ~C('fl a British En1plr(•. ..._-\gain 1 say emphatically that \YG shonld be prepared to strengthen tho tics of Empire rather than loc,,cn 1 item.

The Speech of tlw Lientcnant-Gov<'l'nor aJ~o states-

" The tr~Ul~aetions ut the rrrPasury for the _ _-car en dud 30th J mw last resulted in a deficit of £554,685."

~\'lr. Speaker, I aut not a calrunitv ho,vlcr, and no member of this Chamber· can ever a,ccusp me .of being a calamit.~ howle_r, but liHtt " a brg dcl!ctL It 1s a lng dcfimt, but ''e have u great :Stato, a Ula•.,..nificcnt State sr•cond t') none in Australia. "'The State ha~ held its own an cl progressed durin~ the last t:levoH .'car::;, not lY'causp lYe have had a ~ociali:t ad.tninj, t_ration in po""' er, but abso­lutely In P.plte of 1t. If wr~ had not had such a mnguiiicent Statn ·with it~ tL'Inendous pocsibilities, produ,,·ing the wealth which it has pl·oclucc>d during_ that period of years, V\'P would ha Ye been 111 a verv serious condi­tion imlo<•<l. \Vha t i,; one of the contributing f ,1uses of this trcrncndous deficit? Sin1plv that, ns I have said on more than one occa­~:ior;. the Go.Yt~r.nnlcnt han~ not recognised ihen· resp~nsJbrhty as trus~ocs of the public funtls. \v e pass legrslatwn through this Hol!S<' limiting the authority of trustees, and scttrng out how they shall invest the money 0nt.rustod to them. Thov arc not allowed to spm:d it in this Y ay· th~tt wav or tho other •my. What arc the 'c-overnrnc~t but trustees of public funds? But, instead of exercising lhc rNlsonrrble caro that trustees should exer­cis>2, they l1avc situply on1barked on a series of PntPrpriscs resulting in tho loss of millions d pounds to the people of Queensland. Is ilutt to continue? If it is to continue, we ,.;halt hr11·o a \'Cl'.\' diflkult time ahead.

Tho ruihva , haq• been discussed. I hope thrrt not tcnothcr mile of railway will be built for sorno ~~~ears, ot.h0r than those lines that '"''· haYe to complete. I r<~alisc fulL that th~ro i~ coming· into our modnrn life t'he use of nrotor trafli~, not only for the transport of passengers, IJUt _aJ :o for the tran~port of c:oods. :md HO donl.Jt If WC' could obtain the llgnn'"· \YC' \\ould rca1iRo that the railwa--:·~ of Qtwt Il"lnnd cu·~- lo.~ing b~ns of thoufand~ of ponnds 0~1 t:1o·;r pas. ,,n~cr and gor ~1:=; traffic Lc.·:a: of thn kt:cn n1otor f'Olllpeti­tion. \\·,, do LOt v;ant to c0ntinuc that­·t-~t" of affai_;. \Vc look u1:ori otll' railwaY.-" as bc:inn· our best a.ssct; anti a. Ycry splend~!i

arc, but we cam10t afford to go £l,750.0CJ nlnlaJl:y in thu p _hninis-

ln1tion of 1hen1. I hnpc that before an: ne1v railw;n. :-, :11~~ contcn1platc·d by the Govern­

fn [r\('

ua1io:Ju.1 u-.

cor;cderation will be given of whether thev are a and vital to o;_u· lleeds.

Hon. D. A. GLEDFO"i: \Vc did not complete thL' ul:_u tr en lin:=--1 pa:-·scd by the Tory GoYern­:.wllt 111 1914.

:\I!'. TAYLOR: I hope it will be manY n•ar::< hl'forc~ those liurs aro co1nplcte-d, o\~ ;_'Yl'1l {'01llllJPllC,:_>(_1. -

::\lining ! )urn~ of that tl:,• appoiutt•(l

ha~ ber·1 1ncntioned during the thi' dcb_ttc. It is a grc at pit:" ~ (':~rcta.ry for it1inLs \Vf1:3 not I.ieut<cn'-'nt-Gol'ernor many years

:\Ir. :\!AX\'>ET.L: Put hi'TI on the Boa.rd of Trnd\' and 1:\rbitratio1J.

:\T t'. TA YLOR : He is not an optimist; ho I...; a ~upPr-optirni~t, and I do not suppose

:.u1y ~d inister has ever had charge of a Htnwnt in this State who has been

,.c,pon, ible for such colossal lossc' as he has. The hon. gentl<man said that bv engaging in Inining 0ntcrpriscs a lot of 1abour was employed. We haYc admiUed that, and wo lmYe admitted that by so doing good service was being done to those employed; but, as 1\'e haYe also pointed out time and aga.in. the hon. gentleman could have employed the "!l!lO amount of labour and spent the same nnl(Hll!t of n1onoy in \vork of a pern1anent dm·clopmcntal nature that woulJ have l'("·llhed in son1ethiug being sho1vn for the ···:pcnditm·,. incurred. \Vhat arc the assets < ; a mi11ing ,-<'nturc worth whe'1 the field ]tf'tl'rt-' mrt·~ :\o one knows better than hon. ll)( :.!lh,rs in this Chamber that they arc>

o. th prndically nothing at all. and that ~l1e In<ll'llinl'ry is l'( ~arded alrnost as scrap 1ro:\. _\Vhc•11 th'" 1ninc i_s a going concern proC:lt:lWr on• th>' maehtnorv is -..vorth thr ".IOIH·y it. coot: but immedia'toly the metal­ltf,·r·olh ore pelo>rs out the machinery and 1 i ne c;"n sP t n hP an asset and become a dead ]"'"·· It is not right for any Government to .,pell(l uroncv of which thev are merelv trn~te~~ ' in t i1deavouriug- to" engage ii1 11u)ta!liferous 1nining on their own account. The Goverrrment should give all assistanc,,l po_::f<ible to rnining and encourage prospectors t-u go out a-nd find new ore-bodies; but it is llot. the right and proper thing io spend the people's n1oney in entering the mining indus­try as the GoYernn1cnt have done.

1 wish to touch upon another matter which t houg·h not mentioned in the Speech of th~ LJcutc>nant-Govcrnor, has bec:n mentiotwd bv hon. nH-::1n bers, and in this connection l aril plPn sed to observe that the hon. member for Eachnm lras just entered the Chamber. He "ll<l em·eral hon. members had a good deal to ''Y about maize. 'rhe greatest po'sible con­:-urnption of Inaizo conlC'' fron1 its use a~ a fodder.

:\lr. l' .. J. Rn:-;: Arc there no other uses?

:lrr. T:\ YLOR: I ,,-as saying that the U,l'l'att'St pnssiblo use of 111aizo corncs frnn1 it:; u-e a' a foddoJ·. I belie\'o from my cxpori­'.'tlC'(', {':.:te1lding over thirty years) that there. ;, .,_ <lcdi:~e of 80 per cont. in tlw use of wal e as a fodder, a.~ coi.nparr'd ,y]th thirty YeaL; ago. \Vhy? Sin1ply on nc_.~·ount of thn dt:vC>lopinont of the rnotor traffir. That i killing tho I1HJ.i1.• businc'3s. -:\{f .Jt.ion \1-a~ l!lH<l1: bv i h' ~'~11nl~tc'l' of a ~na iz.r vrodnct::. fnctory.,

)It·. C' .• J. HY\_; · y·ou arc- ~,")sUnliup: that.

M1'. Taylor.]

122 [ASSE}IBLY.J

\Lr. TA YT.(IH: ll" not il,tl•t·mpt: J <]id hon. rnr:nb,>r \rhrll ht) l,J.:;

n:-c onunen-d thr>: hon. rnern-with ih(~ nH.:_n bcr for

Eacban1, i\lr. Gi!liC'R, \Yhn, J ];;; at one with 1nn \Vh :1 1 ~t.·:tP that th,_: mai?.' pi'oduct:-.

Olll'r~tting n~ FooLtT[!: at the < -Hp· all the b· -pr.;e.hd .•

rcqnircri for whole of ...:\u~, rnlia, doing so.

~\lr. HA~LOC:: \\'ll;; arc thC' peopl., inn•t­in3 in n1aiz~.._•o·row~llg in ~_:ucr·tl'-land?

:\lr. TA YLOH · J do uot. l. rww. Olle of tlw chi0f br~akfa~t foo,_-i.-; in u~\" thror:.s~:hout thc­IVorld I-'5 oatn1eai. 1\ttcn1pts. h-.ve b~een 111 ,de (-o propar·-:-~ 1nai~:~~ in such a, \Ya:- that it '"·il! di:::l)L,c.-:' ont 1rcoL Lut jt h~ l-et a. hope of doing ;.;o. a.nd ncn'l' \"ill.

}Ir. lL\;\LO.:\: -:\.,.o Oltt' Pxpf'ct:-; it.

~Ir. TAYL<JH: Oain1otl. llldcf''-' ~onll' hcttt'r sub:::;tituh• i:-> found. iYill continur> to hold il-1 pl·e:;:.:-'nt place as a bn•akfu:3t food. U-luco-i\ n1::ti_.,_:-nn. and a fer· other product" are nw.d·• fro~n Jnaize, bnt it~ u~c in that direction i~ i11flnitr ~in1al. a:: C( 1nparcd with the naH·UlH consumed ns food for hor:;;e~.

\Ir. C. J. RY.\X: Did ~;ou (•YC'l' l1r tr of t-Lreh '?

'-lr. TAYLOH: I ktYc don,, ,u, hut. a ton of nla.iz,: ;v·Iil make a Yory L i.'f.JP Cittantity of starch. In nll:v ca~e. th; qu::tntity of In?.izC' reauir._ .:1 fnl' thr P1annfactnl"' of ::-.ta.rch is a I.'E<!igble Cf!.tantity con~pnr0d y_·ith wh:1t 1s usc·cl for ·lJOr e food. I cm1 ,·u-y plC'a,·ed to k!ll) that h an f'xccllrnt profit has bt :•n In<r;j, o;1 n1· this vc.tr. Th<.tt. \Yill h:::·1rt • 1 dl~' Hll'll '"no., h;_; ·ye be 11

t0 nrnd :lr-e it. ).1r. }I.'l..:··~.O'I: ~ln· yoi< iu:port·!ng £--,·mH

Snuth Afri~

'HY0 1111!- imnort(•d ~1 r-1·~ a re ;~Pttin g: a

. 1 lllil)' ~ li:' f t'Orl1 nurt hern

I nrn. I hav(~ an ~;}" hu11drer1s ,uf

it hEs ""' 1n,~·uJy bc::n Tt.b1f•hnd ha\:0 gone iu tht { 't:mtrnl dl:-o­

profltiug and the h;8iJ:g through C'Xif'~ill''!.' f'ondit;o11s.

That :s a nwrkrt which does 1:0t. cxi.~t c·.:cn· Yi·-n· fnt' ih nol'ti:Wrn-grov:n H"Lli-n:-. Rnd y-;p

haYC to f;lC'C' t}l(l r -et:-:. I (l!.;T0~· \Yith the hon. nH•rnher fot· \Vide Hay !\1 hoping that thn northern pf'ople. unle·s thf'~' arc going· in foj' an extf•nf'i\·c svst~.-:-n1 of pjg ra1::-1n~~­will LOt njn their faith to rnnizo. T beliDY(' f·:tt. 1:!1\':l has a gTf'Ut fuhll'P as n.. dair.Ying· rli£>tri .f, but the nn~sent conditjon nf thP znajz n1arkct js r:'-~: ptiona l. ali h01 .. rg·h 8,; I preyiously sGatcd I a!n ploaf'ecl the ~4.thm·1ol! QTO\Y0l'S are getting that <''Tccption·)l pric".

rrhcro 3.1'0 On(' O.l:' t\yo featnl'f'S of thf: LiPu~_f'n:":l!t-Gon•nlOr:, Speech \\ ith \Yhirh T :-hall d:~uL :.\L-·ntlon Wl:o~ rnadc f'f tlu~ C:;dle Crcf~:: Irrigat;O!l ;trPa. I \YH~ OUP of th: party of padinrr,!iJtarian:' \YlHl accompanit-d the ~-. ;·:,ei •,rv for PubEc Land"' to yjcv; that :::t•ttlc-rn:•nt :---onll' ('Cllsiderablc tin10 n~o. and I \Yns groatJ_v impn .. ·•;:-,..:;r:d 1.vith what I sa\v tllCn'. I was a 1so 7TE<1t.iy irnprcsscd with ;dult I consider io b. thn l'Xeeptional n hility of thr- rnan 1<vho i in cha.rg-e of that schen1e. T b( li \'~' th~·t I\:fr·. PartridgP, in carrying

hi-:; duties us Cornmissioncr of Irrigation, n1akiug· nn excdL2nt job. 'rhe schemn i'l

Hn cxjwrirnent ~o far as Queensland is con­C'~?'rned. It is the flrf;t, big· thing of its kind

[3ir. Taylor.

t1~ ·t ltu.; h ·~ nr.·ltrtakc,n iu this Btatc, and I t nt t. ail -:-:c(·t·ion:; of the liousc are 1\lu th 1t it. shaH be n pronounced

nnnH' \vhieh has been town t L\Lf'tlc' C'rc''k in·lv;a-

alT'L 1:-: ubont 1~0 rniln~ L·otn lt,ockhairln­tt ·Jl. ~~c~1 month fO rlcv.-1H.'r bct\YW'n 4u0 ru~d 500 f:>nos are t::.> he orwnt l iu :ht~ area, and bel Wl'f'n 3[.·) and 400 ·-Ni1l be irrigated,

hi!e a tJllU!lbPr of d:-y farn1s urn to bu opc:nc·rl. fo1· :-<·'lr,ction .. \Y r~ ''_ant tho,..;e rn?u tD he gi, en e·•er:v po:::s1ble a~.q~~ance, to rua1\:0 a ::-i:r:c- "'··of th: \'c·ntan~. 1TaYll1g' t.i:w knoY\'­L du:e t wt \\'t' have of r.hr• prc,.ent djsa~tr:>uS :-<· '.t0 of affair:-, tH'CTuing to the pc_stor.-:ll~t.s c,f CPntra1 (~ut Pn:"lancl on account. of tne drn11.~·Lt. r·:.di·· ions prl:'YL-:llil g:, I fi1i1.k. this 1n·i'"fll.')]l f~ff Cl i:-< a~~~tinc:d to be the StOl'E'­

hon~:• ft,r tl10 prudndion of lucerne for the F!.ait~tP!HL nf the• staJions in Central Qnr~ nS:'-l1Hl l!t the da~·s thut are to ~onw. ~\tall ('\.l'l:l", l hop<~ ~o.

:\T0ntion has been made by several hon. m0mbers t hi:;; rnorning about the conscrva­t'on of fotlclor. The hon. member for LPichhardt spoke yest-9rday of the waste taking pla· e in \Vr .tern Qneensla.ncl through nnt eon::;f'rvin.;-.; the natural grasses 111 the forrn of hay for U')f' during dry period-;;. I dn not think that is a Ycry :::·Jund con1-1:tC'~Tia l propo iticu. and it v::ould be n Yery d.!fiicnlt 1n~ttcr .indPed be{ anso the feed valu0 ,, culd be> so Yery little t.hat the oxp~ns<; of ( nllf'cring- tho grass and pnttn~.g rt rnto ,t cks '· ould probably b,, more than the f':hc0p \\·rn' '1'orth. If we 0ncouragc the UTO\Vth of lnc<'l'nl' in th0 Ca.::.tlo Creek area ?u-~d it np~I ·was going to Eay thou­

t( :'s of lncerne-so that it 1nay be whln rh on ht ne eiods come along,

pcod \York wiil bv dC.."lC ;"' bnt it wants to be don(· w1t:1 tho co-operation of the pJ.s­torali~t. thr• ~-razicr. and thr- fanner. They \ ·:11tt io \YOl'~- out. t-h0ir ov:n '"Ollvation, and thi., I' " cc-h<'mc that· chonld app<:al to e\' <Jf thP"n for their own protec~ion. lf '.Yl'i'G done. \vhcn drought periods

thc·rt~ would be nothing like the >•·;·iuu j{,,, that tlw State io nlffering at thL' pr •c·:.•nt t.:nlf~. \Vhat hrrs boon happon­n1o· dtu·jnr:: the lu.st four or fiye rr1onths '( rj~G,_." bun. t_'n1PDlber for \Var\vick this rnorn­~.·~- a~:~od tl10 Sc-cret:uv for Railways-I t1o not know whether ~any hon. 1ncmbcr notf•d t ~~c rcply-"-hO\V n1ueh hay and d~aff had b '11 imported via \Vallangarra ,clurmg the la!'3t. iweh rnOllLhs. and the reply was 42,lf>O tone:. That does not hko into account foclclPr incpoded in other directions. That nro--1ucc· '"h1ch would be wo1:th, I suppose, half a 'millioll of rnoncv \V Us irnport:-"d in on•_ i hart. pc:riod to keeP ns gD:ing in t.his ,.ondcrful Stato of Queenslan~l. \Vc have h~; t1 cxnPricnce rlnring· the last fift;.·~ years (~f tht>t~ght conditions, anrl we know that droug·hts will ri_:·ur time and ti1nc again; hut t'here j.:;; no rea;;::on whY. '\Vh0n a drought neriod do~.'s come along, ·we should bo hit f0 }pg thn wtP' we aro being hit. to leg at tl1r prr·sen1 tiinc\ r '·pccially "\Yhen ~vou _come to con idcr the trernenclon.;: valuo of the p.;~torn l jndustr_v to Queensland and to ~\uctrnlin. I suppose thre,~·quarters of t-he nxports fr0'1l (~ueensland arc represented by wool. Duriug the month of July we ;hinpctl voo\ out. of this State worth be­tm·;,,ll £C'!O.OOO and £600.000. That means nr w n1onPV that ,-nJ want coming into Ou.N:nslant( to f1cyelop it, aEd ·we should do { ·\·Pryt.hing vve pm .,ibly can to :;:avc our great pa.:-toral indw2>tr;"J which producss wool of a

Address in H, jil:l,

~·:.tlw• of OYer £60,00J.CJO a vf'ar. \Yhv, wo ·tcr•d LOt ha afraid uf the thou:3n.nd rn·illioa lL tional dt·Lt of tlH• ( ·omltlCJitWL'Ultb .,,_hen we ('an proilucf' fro1n ont_; industnr ntane £60.0D0.000 worth of \Yool. .

;\t 12.··;'l )l.lll ..

~\lr·. F. A. COOP£H (JJr, ;,'/ ( r). one of the pa1wl ,,£ 1\'rnpor<try ChairmL•n. relie\·ed the :-:;;H_•akPr iu tltP chair. ·

}lr. TA YLOH : EYerythiug possible should be done to s .C' that that industry ha.s a t·hancl' to live, Uecausc I do not R·ec· n1ucl1 proba~;ility. for nl-·.ny years to corr1c, of oln trHlnufrL turing 1nuc·h lnoro I'cLW ·wool into t?xtiles than IYC' Rt0 doiug at the prese11t Tl!lll'. Thcra 1Yas n .slight inc1·c:ase lLt:t year in the quaHtit,v of wool used bv the ...::\U:3-rralian woollen n1ills. It had fidlou awav hut there \Yas a slight incroa·w~ last vea;_.: although nothing like the increase ,\,hich

iH be nccessarv in order to 1nako us a self­...;upporting pcol1le. \V L' nu:d rnore peoplo l)(·:ore we can .._·xpcct to do yerv n1uch n1ore in that direction. I hope that ~10 eflort will be spared by the GoYernn1ent to rnakc tho C.Lstlc Crec'k irrigation schernc a succc~s. AC"cording to the speeches ,yhjch were bro::.d~ caJt ove:!.~ the State of Qul'en·~Jand a '.veck or two ago, }ir. Partridge f·x.pf'cts this irriga~ tion arut to be .a C'O!nplete succn.,s. It ca11 only be a success if profitable 1narkets are £9und for the product~ ·which the rr1en there are grd"\riug. Gnles~ 1.·c· c-an find pro~itable nunkets, t':• tlc Creek \-.ill be a dismal failnc ~ and \Y~ do not ,-.,-ant it to be a disrnal f:1ilurf'. The possibilities I11entioned witll r2gal't1 to thP g1·owlng of hH ..:-rue in that al'ea wil\. it the sc:hcmo is developed, mean a 1 "rgo expenditure of In one: ; Lut · I do not

N'ason why, if backed U) by those intPrdltt d-th prrstoralist··~ and

--by ,-ay of a b"~· eomprrny, lucerne Hot b~~ grO\\ n and storE.•d until it 13

in dry. sen~uns. It is a prorJcsitioll should be scriou:-;1~~ con2-idered.

Auothcr thinb in the Spe~ :·h '"hich I a1n ~-l;lcl to Sf'(~ is the refe1·c1 e t-:) the pro"'rcss L<'·in~· 1nade in fore~try. I \Yonld lil'"e. if it i" possible--hut I Ul!J. afraid is not no3sible at the present tin1e-to ;:,eo ( 'Jll(·Cf.on of the rnnncy 1\-hich the Govennnent obtain Irmn ~tlnnpagc or ro,valty fees disc-ontinued . .;,. thnt. hou.-:e~lmildit!l_'' (:ould ll,' coEduct···d rnorc cheaply. llo'Ff'Yer. tlwt is a Govern~ ment activity.

2\lr. PETERSOX: \Ye han' a lot of Am0rican tirnber -coming in.

~Ir. TAYLOR: Yee. \Ye lwYt' American hrnbc·;· c01ni:r,g in in shiplo;tds. unf.ortunately, .. nO. tne sooner '"c put our house 1n o1·cler in thnt tlircchon thC' bc·tter it will be for us. I rn. y be ·wrong, but I think '\YC' can crrow rirnbor on land which .i.s L· bsolntelv uns~ited for anythin~j' else-on hillsich:.-"~ [n valleys.

nd in rough f'Guntry. The G()y,,rnment tnight S£'0 the ,-..-i~dom of offeri1 ~· a pren1inn1 o_r bonu::; to people ~o go in n1orc• for gro\dng hmbP-r on land 'vh1ch thPy c~uniot profitably use fer g'l'L2ing or dairyin(. Ol' for {:ultiva~ tion. · ·

lVIr. PEI'ETISO~: People arC' growiug tin1Lcr in rny district .at the present tirne. Srnall stuff is earning iuto the 1nills PYery day.

::l!Ir. TAYLOR: There nre onlv two or three thinf'S in the Speech that. are !,''OOd. I am pleased to see what has been done in regard to the eradication of prickly-pear. From inquiries I haye made, I am given ·eo

.L!clnss iu HCjiy. 123

undt·l·.--L<ud -:l!at the JllVlH·v which ts bC'1ng LHI tl1e en1dicatit)n cf that pe::.t I:;

spPllty and that beneficial rcsn]t.;; thcrf'~·L-nu. Tl~at is a big

and oue whid1 l'Yt_'l'VOnc of LL-.: c-an l1elp alm.lP'. Yv~o {yant- io

the little pettifo:~ging icL:as <lll~ a L·ood !rl !.l1V c f ·us have \Vith

. _to c. .•rtain 1hi11gs, t:r:d lo_ok at thing~ i!l a 1g- -way. and try to YlSl.Irdrse not what QtlL'PtJ~land is going to Le during the tenn of thi.~ GoYt:'rnll1L'llt, but what QnC'ensland is going to LP in fifty oe 100 years. I look upon thi;:; Stat:' as being onl~ . ., in its swadJling elothe~. _\It hough a lut of work has been donr. it i. r,otlnng in co·.apai.·ison 1vith the 1 ·. ork \rhich :nvnits HB in the fntnre. and tYtl

.,~ ,t:nt t·J h·t-~·c a vision big enough to enable us to rf:ali:se that it i~ the hig things, a11d not a lot of small matters, which count in natio:wl !if'.'·

I clo not wi. h to diecoum some of the small tnattets whirh hou. mmnlwrs introduce hero fron1 tirne to tirnc, but I 'vould like to ask hon. nlc'nlbt'rs to give this ruatter considera~ tion. 1)uring the last fifteen or twenty years d1~-rP has beLln n1ore legislation of a hurnani­htrian 11aturP broug-ht in by the various Go~ vpnuneut:-:. of the CornH10l1YI.l'alth probabl;: than in the "·holP of the prcYious period of iis historY. There has bcc-n need for that log·i<atioJi, and the people and Government,, ha YC rca!i~.:d that need. But are vve not d.· ding· too tnurh "ith the effects and not

· t:t th<' < 1.uses? The legislation we introdncing should have prevented

of thosl~ n(•cds., the arnc1ioration of ''hit h wt· lnuk tn>on to-daY as philnnthrooic ancl hnnl<-Ulital'ia;l. · - ~

~Jr. F~~H.RICKS V<out!t JJrislia-u:'): I havP li i H .i \T;irh i!ltercst to the r"_~.narks ·which have fallen fr·on1 hon. 1nen1bers o;)posito in n'\fp1·enee to tllf' Fcdr-ral grant to the States undl'r the per capita ~"~/'",tenl. This nutttcr ha bven a ource of ,~-rangling. liti~ation.

and has causcJ an anti-Federal -..:r n the Sta tc:; and the Con1n1on~

t-\-21" since i ht' cstablishrnent of fpclc•rntio~t. \Ye hn.Yt' l't:pcaL'(_ll.v hr:ud that the Braddon provi::-ion of tho ~\·deral Con­~titution lH'OYidt><l that for the first ten year~ of fPclPl'ation thrt.~.:.•-fonrths of tl1P reyenue

cu~tmn~ and exci~e should b, handed to 8-ta tc;;:., n.rHl oHe~fonrth should be c·etainC'd bv the Commonwealth. If that had h-· 'll t1H.' positio~l, it. >-: ould have saved much litigation and e-xpense---the, co~t. of referenda induded-ancl the geHPl'.tl unc.:l'tainty on thP part of the• Bta tt' as to where they etood and on thf' pnrt of tho Cmnn1onwealth as to 'Yhat it "honkl do. lTnfortunately, that b~autiful ,-aguL·ncs:-:; which frcqtwntly is introduced into do ·nnlPl!t::; rn·eparPd bY highly authoritative tninds -vr .1'~ put into 'the Braddon section. whi.:·h dtd not sa~· anything of thf' kind. !_~ufOl'tllllCl'~',~lv for th-: States and foe thP Coltnl'C'nwealt.h, \Vhat it did sny \Vas not thnt the Comn1onvvealth :::.hould retain one-fourth oi rbat 1·'-'Yf 11t1P. hnt. that not ll10l'C than on('~ fondh of thP joint rPYenuc fron1 customs and 'xci P t~nt itY · ~ ~wuld bP ut-ill~r'd or r- ppli·-d l1 tl!c Con!luonwealth tov.rard.'l. its expendi~ : un'. (_'on t•qut>ntl: evpr si net> thG -inception uf federation the difficulty has been u source of continual struggle~' h0tv,·e.:.•n t~::e State and F\de1al authorit1P~. 1£ it had bt·Pn set out jr:. plain lnt-'guag(', the f'ffcct. "\YOuld hnse been rs I havt' stated. but right fron1 the incep~ tion the 1nath•r had to be referred to thP High Comt. and the ruling of the High C'ourt. judgPs was t.ha t not only had the

JJir. Ferricks.]

l2J !A;~SE~IBLY.J Address in Rcpl·.r.

Co:;:rnnon'·caH1t to r0turn to the States thr_et~­fourths of thP duties frotn custon1s a11rl cxeu3e, im_t al~uJ anv Inoney l'Clll'C~enting any unc•x.­llPlldetl hab·i~cr"' of tho rcnHtining o110-fourth. ~rhat was 1hc' origin of the tl'rrn." s1n·plus revenue." and the cf-l'ect of the High Court interprc:.ot:on at the time -., ·'" that State Trcafmrcrs in tho,c"c days and s.uh:;Pqnent da~·s were in Hw l1appy position, t..o:J I h<:ve. ~re­quently sctid in this Ch~I?-ber, of rccernng iinancial \nndfal!-.. I tlnnk that the hon. member for \Vynnum went through that pk'1a-sing cxpcri0ncc of. g-ct~ing fron1 the Com­rnonwe8.lth 1noncy vvlnch, 111 a sense, \\'3.3 not c-..,::pccted.

Hon. V\'. H. I3ARXC:S: Your Go•:ernment hayo bc0·1 in precisely the sanu: po.3ition.

'\Ir. FIGRRICKS: Tho hon. member, seein:; that he v af' a State TrcaSLU'L'l', vtill bear out what I hu.-c said in my remarks already. l·"ron1 that tin10 the position has been ono nf doubt, and tho,o unexpended balanc<--, und('r tho tonn of "surplus revenue," wero returned to tho St' tes until about 19J8, when the system of old-ago pensions was intro­duced bv the Commonwealth Government. The Conomonwoalth Government of that day ---I suppm<'. quit" naturally-did what any (;ovcrnmont "·ouicl do to provide tho funds nC'cP,;;,sarv to finance that humanitarian project, 'and seized upon the readiest moans­the finance mo't handy to the use of the Parliament. They appropriated-or rather, t hov did not appropriate-they used-the mJC.xpended ba.lances i1~ order to fln~nc~ tho Hstom of old-ago pensions for the in·-t few ~ 'c,ars. The Deakin Government \vcrc in office at the time, kept in power hy the wp­port of the Labour party. Hon. members opposite claim credit for anti-Labour Go­'<ornmonts for having introduced the syst:'m of old-age pensions; therefore it n1ight h:~ a;, well for mo here to demonstrate th~t l\Ir. Fisher, who was then the leader of the }\xloral Labour party which wo' keeping the Dcakin GoYornn1ent in power, carried a motion in the House of Reprcl<•nhtives in favour of the svstem. The motion was a diredion to the Government.

Hon. \V. H. B.IRNES: We introduced old-ago pensions here before that time.

\t 2 p.m.,

The SPEAKER resumed the chair.

Mr. FERRICKS: Following on !·hat, t.he Surplus Hevenue Act of 1908, having far­reaching powPrs and directed ngainst tho interests of the States from a financial point of ,-iew, was passed. One section provided that; the Commonwealth Government should nscertain the monthly balance of revenue o\·er expenditure, and such halanco should be paid to the States. Another section pro­vidcd that all payments to trust funds estab­!iohed bv the Federal Government should be deemed· to bo Bxpenditure. Section 6 of the Act -,ya~~ YCT.v Federal-like in its antagonisn1 to the financial in:erests of the States. It f'l'OYided-

" Notwitlu.-t:nHling anything 111 the .\ndit Act 1901-6 appropriation to trust funds shall not lapse or b0 deemed to have lot"ed at the clocc of t.!l'l financial vcar for the scrvjces for ·which it V'as inndc"

Tl: ti'- provi-ded that any 1aone> not. expended <~t tht• end of ihe year and still l'Clnain­in;;· in the trust fund should not be dce.ncd to havt: Jnp.~,~rL TlHlt is lftguin~t th0 inter­'-'h of the· States frum a financial point

[llfr. Perricks.

·,nd np the ca.tlsc of henn.;c it prm·icled that

1 il the n1nut.hly bala11ces ·~he pa:y· nwm to trust. funds from consolidatNl

shntlld iw deemed to btl e'Cpcnditurc, bnt bclal><'e in tho trust funds were to be de'''1ed not (o ha. o lapsed if they were uoi­u( ilisecl. The Trc·L,nrcr could pay to the t:ust funds from consolidated reVC'lllHl any nmount. thL' Goyernor-Genf'ral con.:::idcred nt_. c11,sal·.\· fo·l· the service~. That Jeprived the States of any surplus rcYenuc that might he coming to them. The :voice raised by the E;tatcs in protest \vas ·very pow0rful, so much so that a Prcn1ier.,' c-onfel'Cllf'G was con Yenod, end the then Prime :Minister, ::\ir. Den kin, n_ ali8i11g the strong opposi6on of th" States, qualified his proposals and ':gree1 ot the imtaucc' of the then Prcm10r 01

Quccnsland-I think Mr. Kidston-to take " referendum on the question of the payment of capiht ion g-rants t? the States on the has is of th• ir populatwn. That was; sub­mitted n the country in 1910 at the same tinu~ ,J~ the Federal elections '\Vere being held. and, in view of tho attention that i·; being centred on this question, it is interest­ing- to rovin"· the result of that referendum. It 'was earricd in three States of the Comn1on­'· Pa)th--QueePslund, \Vestern Australia and Ta 1nania. The rnajoritlcR against the pro­pos . .ls in che other States were not largo, and the quc<ti·on was defeated throughout tlw \doolo of Australia b:v tho Yer:v small majority of 25.,000 votes. It would be in­teresting at tlus stage to supply the figur~s 'hawing ho\\· the different States voted m connection with those proposals. These a ro the figun~s-

! }IinoritY "' For. ..Against. ! or L

i J\Iajority'j-. ----·---~--- --~~-----------------

i Xew

Walrs South I ::28,000 i ~53,000 *25,000

Yictoria ! 200.000 :!±2,000 ~4~,000

Queensland .. t\7:ooo 72.001) 'j-lfi,OOO South Australia ' 49,000 :>2;ooo *3,000 West Australia 49,000 30,000 t19,00ll Ta.sn1ania :32,000 21,000 tll,OOO

-----Grand totale 6{5,000 fl/0,000 *25,000

Those figures show that t~ere was wide­spread interest in tho que•,twn throughout the St8.(C' at that time on this question. That was emphasised by tho fact that, althouo-h the Labour partv went to tho countr~ in oppo3ition to putting the payment under 'this per capita scheme into the Con~tl­tut.ion to make it permanent, and not\VIth­standing the fact that they s:vept the. polb in the Common" ealth and gamed a vrctory in that year. they complied with the wishes of the peopl~. I havo preYiousl,v stated. in this Cha1nber, in discu3sing this qu~stlon, that ~VIr. Fishc:r was al w ys kee~IIy ahvoT tn the finaEri~.l Jntert"'.,ts of th J States. _,_::"{!;;:; lf'aning~ n1ight have been said to be totv~rdr­the StalL'S in thut regard: and ho reuhsed that tho Yie·,, s of the people reflected under a proposal n1ado by the a~1ti-Labour Gove:·u­rrH'llt of that day harl to bo re.spcctcd, w1th ~ho result that.. ·when hjs party \Y3S rr,turncd to pO\"cr in 1 n1o. tl:tcy pas~cd the Surplu< Rcvenuo of 1910, proyrdn1g for tl~c c~:Hl-rinuation 1-he pf1).HH~llt") of the caprbLtlon grants for a. furth·21~ p0riod of h '\ y~ars, .or until ~uch ti1ne as P,.J,rliarnent otner;'\'1:3-0. decided. 11w t Act went much fmthcr tlic~l

Address in Reply. [5 AUGl'ST.] Address in Reply.

•1ho.t shr "in,~· that the Fidwr Government \Yas. far n1ol<_• 1ndint'd to be sy1npathetie to rho State than the l)eakin Govorruneni., who passc·d tl:.• 1903 Act.

Th SEcHET.\HY ~\cuncrLTrHL: They r aL~L'd rl1' itl(Jral of th:.._• Statl'S to a :--h:1 in tL{' lTYl'lltl•).

}.L'. FERUIC'KS I will :!lOIHt'i!L lu Ltddii to pii\'d1C'nt to tltl_' 0tat{;:;:. o[ a pt..!r of" ..Gl .~'· pc: hl'ad of jJOpuL~tiLn, ':bo -'~a:rt-

graut the Ac"

.. ln addi1 ion to the lJrl.YlllCllt~ re: erred to und,_~r :-· ction 4 of 1hi;.:.. Act--"

ltdi- '.;as 1hc £: 5~. per lu .uJ-" t'JL' Tree· 'lll't'l' shall urry to the State•:-; iu prouuriie11 tv the uurnber their all the ,.LU' 1 llu~.;; revenue>, If

in hand_:.; a L the :..::o<c of the i111nn-

fr1 fat ' of 1l1,' ll'::.uli of ·~-he \Yns a n11. -t lilwral ~\.et, so far as n·l:re co.tH ~rneJ. Those paynwnts \Ye re opcra-1 iv _ untd all cl it i.~ illtol'esting io noLG 1 hat thP anti-L'llJOlll' Govc•rnlllC'lliS OYPtTalnc the· pro vi,; ion fnr tl1e pay1nE~nt of anv ,'-UqJln, l'l'Y('TlUe l'8Inaiuing nftr~r the pa:·­uH:nt of 1 lle £1 5~. per head. The reason Jhey gnYe for doin~~, so ~,yas that. th~ nurnber of i:lJJplications fur old age pcnsrons w~s repeatedly incrca· ing, and that the commrt­rn.--.nts \VCl'C rnucll hertYlCl'. and Ill con~-equence ,,f this they required all· the surplus r mair,t­ing after the payment to the State•, d thrs pet· eapita grant of £1 5o. The " ty they overcame the provision for the 1910 . \Ct was this: \Vhenever the Federal GoverumDnt of those davs waHtc-d an appropriation ior the payment" of old ag;l ponsi~ns-which we wili oav amounted to about £b,OOO,OOO a year at ·:he time-they always appr?priated about £10 000.000 from the eonsolldD.tecl revenue under 'the Old. Agc and Invalid Pensions Appropriation AcL £5,000,000 was the com­ment in regard to those penswns, and the other £5,000,000 was placed in a. trust accor:nt which could not be interfered w1th and which would not be deemed to have lapsed if unex­pended. Consequently succeeding Govern­ments cut off the grants to the Sta tcs of any surplus revenue, and up to the end of June, \Yhcn rr1V c!o~.2- ifltrrc,;t in thef':> rnattcrs tf'nninatCd, the sun1 of ,£30,000~0C'O haJ thus been a~J 1 >ropria.tccl fror11 tonsolidated l'C'VL·nue for the payrnent of old age pen~ sions. That, brieflv, has been the method ado pi, d sin< e the inception of Federation to 1 he prc,ent iime. I point out that unt1l th1s pro;Jo:::al \Yas rnade by the Bruco-Pago Go­'-~Prn.merJt, ihL·v wero still opnrating as a Commonv calth' nnder !he Act of 1910, becH~;o Pt1 r1iam0nt had not " othor"'.Yrse provrdcd.

:\1r. KFHR: \Yhat int-Clrpretation do you put on tho y;ord~ "othcnvhc provided P? Don't you thi1~k thoy will '' proYide n?

'.L·. FERRICKS: l'\o. I co,nnot sco that that int•q)J etation could be r5ossiblc. ·· OtJlcr\o.'i'lP piOYHlC'd" is JnC>rC>ly t.he

tucnu

of ihn C,)nstitLli;o'l, a!ld the hon. 1vlll flncl thos0 words

the Consti-tution. thnt the~ .. · rn. _tn

for th" 'st.atrs,'' it is iu-t tho ; n~.~ i "}~ wor:1'-.,

lmtii llno.'l.i ,,,c,~t other·-1 r~ (kri. ·.P·." has lk·cn E'liJ1 about the nHlra1 right

tho 8ta' to shrrrc pro};ortionat<'ly in the revcnno dcrivrd fro1n custorns and

excise dutic,. It was the trump card of the associated Pren1iors nJh r thf'ir conference on thi~ quC'o:tion, but I arn inclined to agreo \Yith the hon. n"'.""": nbcr for \Vincl ·Jr in that rl:gaYcL It C'Cl'tainly cannot be contended th·n it j,;; a legal right. :::\'oboJ.y has ever contcndC'Cl that there is a legal rcsponsi­biliJy upon th., Com•r.omYcalih to pay I?lOllt.''""' frmn C'Uston1s nncl e":cise revenue to th.c States. If th0re he a 1noral right­\·:hich l t;o ncd~ adrnit-that is far different fror.J a l,•ga l right. hold tho Yiow that

ricrht not Pxist. Lecauso C<H1Jtitnt.ion the pOiYcr v;as given

en It-11 GoV('l'l1lt1f'nt exclusively and of C'Xcis'o

n nd of bounties. po1ver f'On­

in f'·g~J.rd to , 1H~('an'-:o taxat-ion is

f',TLllltCd tn:t']H~i\·clY. 1Jnt j~; 0:11\: a ("Hi­

.;_•Ul't'Clli pO!,Y('L Y,hich i.n 111y op!niol~· iR quif.<· dii.if·rcnt fron1 tho ~'(;:elusive pcnvcr granted to the Commonwealth under 'ection 86 of the Constitu6on, 'vhich say8-

" On the e"t.ablishment of the Cmn· monw _·alth the collection and control of duties of customs and of excise and the control of the payment of bounties shall pass !o the }'i;xccutin• GoYei'nmcnt of the Comnlon"\voaltll.''

In my opinion that cuts out the States with rc•,pcc! to any claim that might be made on their behalf iu that connection. It seems to me that the poopll', rightly or wrongly, at th0 tin1c they Yoiod for Federation, gave supreme and exclusiyc power to the Com­n::.onv..-ealth Governinent OYer customs and excise rcYenne. I the1"cfore disagree with th.,• arguments that have been raised. Pre­l'ious:v in this Chamber I have mentioned the belief that I hrrve always held that the cntrv of the Commonwealth into the arena cf ;;,come taxation was done with the idea at a later date of having so.nething which tLe Commonwealth would be able to concede to the States as o. sola~e, as it were, for the depriYation of this capitation grant. I men­tioned that I did not think Mr. Fisher ever was sympathetic to the idea of the Common­wealth entering that field of taxation, and as a reason for holding that belief I men­tioned that, when the Income Tax Bill was first introduced into the Federal Parliament, although Mr. Fi- her ,, as P·rimo Minister and Trea.surcr, fw pilotage of that Act \Vas in the hands of Mr. Hugheo. Mr. Fisher did not introduce the Bill. I do not kno\v why, but it 1l'ft tlw irnpro ·si on on my mind that he alwav< was opposed to ihe entry of tlw Con1n1m1wca.lth into that field of ta:~cttion. ThHt was in S.~ptcinber, 1915, and in Novem­ber of the sa!Le yc<t.r, .1\lr. Fi..,hcr re" ignt'd vs PrinE~ J\Iini~icr of the Conunon1vealth and neccptcd the pot of lligh Coc1nnissioner in London.

.... ~c ~ire io go into ihe q~.10stior th0 t'1 '\:atio:n DOWCl'' "-b~eh_ it

to h 1Pu'"1o b~y the CornJnon­St;Jtcs ur~cler' tho hoDding- of

rnP t •"Zn.tion, amus0rncnt ',o fcrth. That

'(:llt

four 1:rl lHlrticnlnrlJ d.urins

tl'.l~ hls "L .o yc·, l·;.;} i1: £raining h~~ EudgPt.S

}llr, Perricks.]

126 Ill ]{(_,_1 ',; [.\SSE::\IBLY. i

and his Estin1atc~ ha;, always proYidccl a \Tory colFervative ostirnate for revenue and a very liberal estimate for expenditure; and I am inclined to think that the proposals which we·re nlaced before tho Stat" Premiers and TreaJur.ors were not an accurate state­ment of the position in regard to the benefit to be derived by the States from this greater power of taxation. I think the position will be worse £or the States than has been pointPd out by the Federal Treasurer and other Ministers of the Federal Government will be the case. It will bo found that, although only one month of this year has elapsed, the Federal Treasurer is tens of thousands of pounds out in his estimates of receipts from customs and excise, and, if the same ratio continues during the succeeding eleven months of this financial year, he will b3 more than £2,000,000 out in his estimate in regard to the revenue from customs and excise, the same as he was last year.

:'vir. KERR: It is a very difficult matter to estimate.

::Y1r. FERRICKS: Xot when it is only a revenue duty such as is operating now in the Commonwealth and not a protectionist duty. It should be easy to estimate the imports into Australia for the year and allow for any increa•·c in population, and the Federal Treasurer, with the time at his disposal and guided by the expert advice of the officers of his department, should be able to get a little closer to the revenue received from customs and excise than £2,000,000 or £2,500,000.

Son1e suggestion has been n1ado that this capitation grant should be reduced piecemeal from year to year. Bad as the position will be for tlw States under the abolition, if it dwuld ta kc pbce, it would be infinite!,· 'vorso and more uncertain, in tny opinion, if the f)t-.tto Trc~ ·Utt~r3 each year had to recast and rc-c1act their taxing legislation to tnak_e up for the 2,, 6d. per yeae, or \Yhatevcr 1t n1a:~ be suggested shonld be deducted annually from t 11e £1 5s. per he ad of the popu· lation uf tlv~ S{-cltf'S. r_L_jti !'latter has becu tinke_'C'd "'>Yjth for the tirst bn=-nt::-fise years of federation, aud a st.at-,:2 of 1U1ccrtaint:T ahvaJ'~ has prcva iled; but it \Yould be 1110l't~ uncertain jf State rrroaHlrers had fronl year to year to frruno new taxing L•gislation to me0t tho l1L'1V conditions ,,·hieh will ari::-J nndel' any pieccrncal reduction of the capit'l­t1on grant Gf £1 5s. per head. Tho Conurlon­\Yeahh Go..-crnrnent ~hould ei: her do what they pl'oposo t.o do or leave it alone. There is no u~,o tinkering ,.,-ith tho que' tion any longer, , nd jf the Federal GoYel'Junent do !','O on .,,"ith tho proposal-of which mys0lf I hgyc f'mne doubt-I rcaJi:-;e the difficult po,ition in which the State Govcrnnwnts vvill bC' placed. I think that the abolition of the capitation grant is incYitable cYontually.

;',1r. KERR: Why?

Mr. FERRICKS: Because. although ihe ConlnlOH'-\-c'alth GovPrnnH\nt for tho past year had a customs revenue of £40,500,000 anJ very big commitments. the tirtH' will Rurelv arise in .Australia when there wili be ln p(n, 0r a protectionist GoYnrnment, either Labour er anti-Labour-a Go\-crnment \Yhich will not :;o in for reYenue duties to increas'' the rc>tnrns from that sourcr, each vear. but will show eome consideration for the build­ing up of industries in Amtralia, which th•1 preoent Commonwealth Government is not doing under its revenue tariff, which is

[ 111 r. F erricks.

rPturning then: ~o 1nnch n1oney that thcv cl( not know what to do with it. In fact: the hon. member for Enoggera must have noticed that each ve•n the FeJoral Treasurer is at a loss to k'now what to do with his surplus. e.nd he cannot get rid of it. Even this last financial year he had a spare million on hand, which he threw into the vV ar Debt Reduction Fund. Great capital is being made out of the fact that during the past four years the Commonwealth Government have reduced the war debt of .\ustralia by £28,000,000, or £7,000,00{) a year.

The PRE:\!IER : He also wrote off his loss on the Commonwealth shipping line.

11r. FERRICKS : Exactly. The Common­wealth Government have done that bv exact· ing the money in customs and excise revenue from the people of the Commonwealth, par· ticularl,v those who haYe large families, anci the majority of whom aro members of the working class; so much so, that during the t.en years the anti-Labour Governments have beeri in power in the Commonwealth the cmtoms revenuo has increased by £2,000,000 a year, or £20,000.000 in the ten years. That. of course. is coming out of the pockets of the people, especially those who have largE> families. The customs duticc; per head of the popnlation ha" jumped up from £2 5s. 3d. per head to £6 12s. 3d. per head, and that has been a very big factor in regard to the increacerl cost of living.

)fr. KERR: \Yha t would a really protective turiff do?

:\'h-. FEilHICKfl: It would give some e-ncouragement ; :J the csbblishment of indus­tries here, but 1t \vould not produce such an enormou5 revenue us the Federal Govern­:nr 1t nrc receiving at the present time, and have been recciYinfS' during the past ten years. und particularly for the last four .. ccars; and year after y(•ar the position see1n <.

to he gcd1ng infinitely '· orse. The FcJcral 'l'rcasurer and the Federa-l

"~t'·Hnev-General and other resnonsible n101nbor~ of the Con1mon'seulth GovC1·nmont ha \·e b{ ,_,n going round the country. and in sornc atten1pt at justification of their atti· tude regarding the abolition of these pAr c~1pita payn1e~1t3 t.hey point to their com­n1itrnents. They say that they have to find interest on \Yar lo<'iJn·;, war pensions, rcpat­ria tion charg0 '· and so forth an1onnting to £29,000.000. They havo a responsibility, the;~ tell us, of £9,0CO,OCJ per anntnn f( l'

the payrr nt of old age pensior:_s, and to that add a not her £5,000,000 for clefcnco expcndi­tme. makin;.; a total of £~,3,00f1,000 >terling as against the £41,000,000 \vhich thee; expec to dcriYe thi~ year from custoJns rcyez~ue, and th>et, they say, is the rf'ason why tney nnnot pa'"· t.he £1 5s. a head to the States. 1f tbat )'o3ition is to come about, as the Fcder d Treasurer and the Federal Attorne~·· GPncral say, this is the position which will arisP. anJ which the people of Australia. especially those with large families, will be burcl<>necl with. It will be admitt.ed, I think, that it is the workers "·ho carried the brunt of the fight during the four years of the \'\'ar. That cannot bP g'<lin::-aid ant-I nnw. having done that. and Au,tralia being" bc·rdt of 60,000 members of it.s aggregato family, the remainder of the aggregate family is expected to pay the cost of the war throup;h the customs and excise revenue. That is what the contention of the Federal Treasurer and Attorney-General amounts to, "We will pay these £29,000,000 per

anntnn of \Yar con1n1itn1ents, pensions, repat~ riation charges and interest on war debt, out of customs and excise revenue, which will b• paid by people with lttrgc families, so that we will raise £6 12s. 3d. from ovcrv member of that family although the younges't may be a baby in arms." In addition, the workers arc to be asked to provide £5,000,000 for defence for this Treasurer, who has so much monev that he does not know what to do with it. I realise, too, that the State Government, who have the responsibility of making good the deprivation of this £1,100,000 l'eccived from the Federal Go­vernment under present conditions, will undergo a lot of unpopularitv in the pro­cc,s. The State Government, of course, will have to do it, and, when they are doing it, it is to be hoped that those per­sons who support the Bruce-Page combina­tion will not raise any protest against the additional taxation which will have to be imposed.

Mr. KELSO: The loss will only be about £235,000.

Mr. _FERRICKS: It is about £1,1DO,OOO, accordmg to the estimate of the Federal Treasurer, and I have already pointed out that in his estimates of revenue ho is very conservative. and in his estimates of expen­diture very liberal, and I am afraid the posi­tion will be actually very much >vorse than he has already put before us. For one thing, the State Governments will not have the rower that the Commonwealth Government have in regard to land taxation. The aggre-

gation of the value of estates in [2.30 p.m.] order to reach the highest inci-

c1Pnco of taxation will not be in the hands of the States. The Commonwealth will reap the benefit of t!nt. The same thing ttpplies with regard to incorno earned i11

more j:han one State of the Commonwealth. i\o Stde Government will be able to aggtc'­gate that i·ncom~ for taxation purposes. :tn l I f''"r that other di,.crcpancies will be founrl as time go£'~ on. TlHlt is \Yhcre the incon­slstr·ncv of th" Federal CoYcrnmcl!t corncs in. Thev t~ke the vie,;· that tho r,uthoritv which Fpcrirls rnoney should .carry ihc rospol~3ibilit.y nf rrri;.;ing that mon,J~'; and I have no donbt that th0 Pt:t.' Gon:-rn1n0nt c·,·i1I accept th":+ rf'spons1bi~ity nnd will tn~lke good tho Je'"1~ ciE·nrv thr1t Yrill arjs-. Rnt in the very aext hrr:;t-.h --:p find th(' Priruo J\linistor ·in d1c• C'0ntnll Pnr]1llTIC'nt bring·ing fonv.lrd a r·rc­po~ .... I to gLt.!--Jt var~ou"' ~u.;ns of rnonc\.· to the Rtn {Oi: re ,J construction. rrhc Construe~ tion ro] eh is n;_neh.· a Sta to 1natter. J\..ftel' f'<l:'-7 ing that

1 theL authorit:,T which spends th'-"

H10llf'.V shou1d raisG the rnonoy, he propo;:,es to giYc tnc Governments of the States tnore money to spend. and does not place upon them the responsibility of raising the money. Sureiv hon. 1n0mhcrs 1nust realise the incvn­sisten(.y of such an attitude.

}.fr. KEL80: Road construction 1s a national question.

:Yir. FERRICKS: What do hon. members now think of the contention put forward with a great deal of crocodile blubbering that the< Senate is a States' House? What bE-comes of the doctrine that it. is the duty of the thirtv-six members of the Senate to pm­t.Pd the int"rests of the States? Surely their inactivity up to the present must force hon. mcmb0rs opposite to agree that the Sen 1t~ is not a States' House, but a party House. It is purely a duplication of the Lower House, and therefore totally unnecessary.

127

The silence of the Senators at all times o" matters o£ concern to the States ~hould 'lOli­

;-inco people that the Senate does not take into consideration the interests of the St>tics ·which the rc,\pectivo Senators rep~·e wnt. \Vhen these people see the huge rPvenue received by the Commonwealth Treasury from customs and exicise duties they n.ust realise that such an accumulutJion of funds is not in the best intere~,ts of the Common­wealth or of the Sta ice. Th<;l case put for­ward regarding the moral ri~ht of the _States to share in that revenue I dtsagree w1th for the reasons that I have stated. I believe that exclusive power was given to the Connnonweaith to collect and control the customs and excise duty. As these proposals are being delayed for a year to se<;> what "teps are to be taken by th;~' States ~n con­nection with the matter, I would adv1se our Government not to brook any further delay in their proposals, but to come forth and enunciate what they are prepared to do to make good the shortage, and a bit more ~l;·m that shortage, because I feel that the position is going to be much worse for the States than was stated by the Federal Treasurer~

Mr. EDWARDS (1\'anango): It is quite nccessarv in the interests of the State to say something on the Speech delivered in this Chamber bv· the Lieutenant-Governor. The mover and ·se•.,oncler of the Address in Reply ,,, ere verv disappointed because they did not have' more material upon which to address thorns cl vcs.

:\IcHlb('rs on this ~id0 of 1he Ilons~ have for a numlwr of years been sounding ":o~ds of caution to the Government and adv1smg them to "~atch the financial position moro cnrdullv than >VC thought they were doing. \Ye lut~·e attempted fro:11 time to time to point ont that the conditions in Queensland wc,re n<>t such as haYc been placed before tlH• pPoplP. 1'\ow VI'C find thE; GoverP:m?nt l'Ptnrniuo· fresh a ftnr an clt.cLton adn111t1ng d11Jt the fu1 ·ncial position i:3 disastrous. That po_ition has }.•rm largc:y hronght about by the action of the GoYcrnn"''nt, i11 not go..,,ern­ing th~ conntry on con· 1 :t _1tio~\'d lim -.·,. T!1o

1. tr:c:1b,_T fur TifY'~ en rna::, 1angh. but 11e lcJO-r-; the diff-lculi~' lw founc~ himself

wb•n ho ;yas not allo;ved 1o address a rue0ti-:1:"' in ft c:•rtuin pt..J·t of l1is elcc<oratc.

)'fr. l(ERR: lie "\\{t:_- very ,vorried, too. 7\[r. ED\VARDS: Tho hon. member for

Bo\vcn 1nust Lo a• \re that v.-hat he preached to the nnioni :; ft \ P years ago he is l.!Ot

"·me to pL ,eh to tlwm to-day. He rcali''"< ; fter· all, tht!_t tho~~e in rc··~ponsibie positions Inu;st a.:,sum-,:: the responsibilities of goycrn­rncnt.

0PPOSITIOX ~1E:1!BERS : lleHr, hear ! :\Ir. ED\VARDS: During the railway

<trikc members like the hon. member for Bowcn--

:>.Ir. KELSO: Got the >Yind up.

::\1r. EDWARDS: The Ministers them­e.dvcs got the wind up, aud they created w<'h an impre'- ion in the State that it will not bo overcome for the next ten years at least. Unless the Gm·crnment are prepared to take a cleflnite stand and govern the State from the inside of this House without any int<'rforence from p<'ople outside, they can­not exnect that prosperity which should [ll'f'Yail.'

The Oppogition have cautioned the ~overn­tnl'nt with respect to several Acts wh1ch they

Jlr. Edwards.]

128 [ASSE:'.IBL Y.J Address in Reply.

have pas'3ed. One o£ tho::;c Act.:-; wa.s tlH' Land Act, particu1arl~l the a.luenchnont ·which wa· passed in 1924 and which io now administered to the detriment of this Stat<' in Yery many respects. It has precluded the --,alo of land, in additiDn to preventing the ---·xpendihn·o of priYaL' rapi+JJ and the pro· gross Df cu1t1vaticn \\·hid1 is :30 essential in the developrnrnt of this State. .AJter year::; of agitation frDlll thi<c, sid~: of the Ilouso ia an attempt .to fo;ho,,· lhP Prcutier ihQ disastrous position '" e v.,'cro drifting find the hon. gr ntl:rnan noH­nwke the dcfinitP stah'!Ylf'l!t C'ro not what ihc'- should be'. Amencllncnt Act· of 192-~ ;)laf (!ll tLC' S- ."re­Lay for Public Lu,nds iu tlw poe3ition of being able to say that no per 011 r<ul 1naJ::o an arrangenHmt fur tho sale of ~l rural pTopcrt:;. without fi·rst cmls:_diiug the ~.lini;-,ter. Any~ oue has nractiral knowl0:._·: -~·(' of the sclli:ug laud ... ot· of lu11d <. alut J rcahH~:-that it i~ au in1JJOrt.ant thing in regard to the \.elf arc of the veoplF on tho lnnd if a penon ha·, fi1st of all to go to the Minister to find ont wlwthcr that gentleman \Yill give' his sanction oven fo:t· the puq1cH of rnaking arrangernents of sale•. In nu.tn~,. of the farln­ing arc<LS that has had the effect of killing land '" an asset. It has had the effect in many districts of bringing down the price of propert)~ by at least 25 per cont. Those are the things which have brought the GoYernment into the 11osition in which they find themse]yes to·day.

Let n1e sa v a ·word or t-wo in conn0ction with our ~gricultural organisations. In 1920 I suggested in this House that the agri~ cultural on~anisation, if nssisted at all by the Gm·ernment, should be assisted along· lines whereby each industry could ore,~tni:-.~P itself indepeudently of other indmtries. The hon. member for Mirani moved a resolution to that effect in 1922, and after all these V'"ars and the exnenditure of much moneY ;\'8 find that the agricultural position of tllc State is such that the Gon'rnmcnt are nmY trying to come to the very positiOn which we suggested many yearf' ago. All these thin_ss ·havo a tendency to prevent the exten­sion of agriculture and the spending of priYate capitnl £reel;"". which is so nc·co:-3ar~v in the development of a large St.tto like oms.

Eegarding the question that appears to be tho most important from the Government point of view just at the present time, the Go,-ernmcnt have not the breadth of vision to be able to control their own affairs. and immediatch the Comrnomvealth Govern­rnont csk ihc1n to 'York off their 01vn lmt, and to be l'f'sponsible for ihP n1onr•y they spend, they become ob,essed bv that qnc,s~ t-ion. Tho Pn:n1icr has boon verv illCDn"-i8h',1t !n relation to this qnC'ftion. I Onlv wi:-h tht hon. g-t>ntlcn1an would giy;; n1e hiS nttentjon

o!le mement. '\ t a conference of the lmO!!Wt1 ~lt 1l and Stnh I\1in1-~ters h,.1c1 a:

' F{ -IL~ral ]?._- rliarn·:JJt IIous0, ~HdbournP. i 1 I ::d~. ·, 1926. :\lr. l\lr-.C'ornl.ack. the rn·pspnt PremiC'r of QHPL'J~t'land, 1nndo this La'Lt'-r_~C'n!-

a drink ot· ~ornothing He cont;nncd- ·

" \7\, .... e :; 1u.dl cornpeH r1 to reor-g~_ni:3o our s:y.;tcrn. I rnake thi.., "tatc-

P'ctlt in :1 n S(;?'i011Sl1('~S, fOl' t.he reason that tho Con11notnvealth \Y( ·:hl C(·rtaini:-~ not continue to ~_ ollcct n1orc l'C'Yl'lllte than it J!e,,dod. Com<' went!·, it wonld cYncuatP cer1ain ·fields of tnxation, Rnd ·~ t' '\you!d }y~ con111C'lled to ('nter thc111. In ·dw,t· \YH' conld our po:'itiou be 1nadn \H)l'.SP.

thf\ Prcnllt'l' rnad · that st·-..temcnt t'':O Inor:thC' ag-o. lJO\·; tlwt thP union~

h'tY<' decided to OJljlOSC 1 ho proposal, tlw :cauu• uf'ntlt tnoln <·orrlc·-, cut ~tn J tC'lls th~:~ )lCnplc '~1lwt the Sta-'-• \Vill hP ruin( cl !f th~'

pay.,tCJJi, urf withdrawn. Tt just. ndc~ of thr ~' veni lenH'n opposite·

i" lHit r)YCr tht'UL ThL' an11'

}Jrn th' raihn1•.- :strike took Thf'n' al·,: n1cu on th:._'

tlJP nn':-'.{ .:t Pre1nicr. shttl'd this 'nou, '. 'cores of

1 in;t' to u1v knovdPclgi\ th:lt it '•·onld bP J1,a:o.trou. to tl1is Stat to fix ew hours of \York and ,, age'.:. by ParlianH·nt. Siu1ilar

. •,, ere made Jv,· l\lr. an cl :::1cn1bcr:5 of the C(n-prnln.-~nt. when

t!tc-- l'Pc:liscd that their Losses outside wer•• <10ffianding to ha vc thel r \Vag( and hour;-; rl~C'd by Parlianl0nt' thf'_.;(' gcntlcnL ll did f'X ;ctl· a . ..; thcv \vero told. Th(' stunP thinp: n ppliL~S in rrg~tn1 tu the ~~ate_.HPnL th.1t wa;;; macli' b 0 · the pre'f'nt Preruier in "Ielbournc.

T!w l'RBIIEH : Y on quoted part of what l ,,aieL but not all of ii.

Mr. EDvY ARDS: I CJUOtc exactly hat the bon. gentleman oaid. I have asked eertain questions in this House during this :<eesion which the Premier had not tlw courage to nnsvvcr. I want to assure hin1 that l am here in tlw intcruts of the elector· of Queensland, and that I did not ask thos,, qnf';..tions 1.vith the pnrposo of ernbarrassing him. I asked those questions with the idea, of com·eying to the hon. gentleman informa~ tion that he should obtain from his officers.

Hon. D. A. GLEDSO:>: V\'ho asked \Oll to ask the questions? ·

j\fr. EDiVARDS: :'\o one asked me to ask the questions. I am not asked to do things like the hon. gentleman is.

The PREMIER: Honostl:v. did you under­>tand the questions?

Mr. EDW~\RDS: Absolutely. but the hon. gentlcn1an did not understand that it wa~ necessary for him to have the knowledge. If the Premier will keep himself together fo1· a moment, I will tell him what I want him to know. I asked him ono qn· stion-namcly, \VaR he a"'Yarc that :it vvas nccc'F-" ·rv to take the whole of the railway po,ition 'into con· ::;;idPrahon at the nrP'd::>nt tin1e on account of tht· inrl'U1S0d tra.dn that ;. us l1£'ing taken a v1a ;.- frotn the: rail ;>.:-a vs bv rnotor trafUc in reg<~rd to both passon'gcn1 ~ anrl good".

Tho PRE)lJER intr~_·jected.

Mr. EDvV \RDS: I know you lw,-o not n1u ·h SCll"-'.J, but I ·want to ask you to keep quiet.

The SPEAKER: Orcler! I would ask thP lwn. mc:rnbf'r Hot to rnake personal reflO{'­tion..::.

Thr"' Pr:E::.nEn: \Ye don't n1ind; he kno\YS 110 he tter.

:.lr. ED"'YARDS: I hope the interjector '\Yill hD de, 1t ,s.;th in ih0 · rnnc In:u1n0r that I c 111 bt<n,rz ·dealt ',\·ith. The qu·-st.ion I .asked lhe Pl'f'rnif'r \Yaq Yrhethcr he \vas av\>'rtro that [1 great deal of bu:_:iness \\as b( ;ng takeu from the railways "t the prcoont time. He

Address in Reply. [5 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 129

replied to that question by saying that it was misleading, and did not give the true facts of the case. I am now going to give the hon. gentleman some information. In my district alone at the preoent time thoro is motor traffic from JGngaroy to Brisbane, and Nanango to Brisbane. and th<'Nl are motor lorries being prepared to carry !\'Oods from the Brisbane Valley line to the South Burnett. That sort of thing is happening throughout the S'ate, as hon. members know. It is olearlv time for the Government carefully to take into con­sideration the position of the railways. They are not going to got over the difficulty by simply increasing the raihYay fares and freights. That action is like a business m~tn who has goods to sell, and who, when the outside public will not come in to purchase them. says: "I will make them do that by putting up the price 10 per c<mt." In answering the other part of the question. the Premier sai-d definitelv that he did not in any shape or form ma.ko a statement to the electors during the election carr1paign that the freil),'hts and fares would not be increased if the Govcrnnwnt were returned to power He,·e is on0 statement that the hon. gentle­man made during tho campaign-

" FAR:_HERS.

" BEWARE OF THE TORY PLOT TO INC'RE.\S[

RAILWft.Y FREIGHTS.

"Don't let the Tories reduce the taxa­tion of the wealthy citv merchants and private corporations, and make up the revenue by increasing railway freights. That is what they will do if they get into office.

"KEEP THE TORIES OUT.

" VOTE LABOUR."

This is another statement which was pub­lished in the " Daily Standard" of 5th May, 1926-

"RAILWAYS.

" There are only two wavs in which the rai)ways can be made to" pay-(1) by mcreasmg fares and freights; or (2) by reducing the wages or increasing the hours of employees. . . The Labour Government is opposed to increasing charges. vV e have adopted the policy of making the wealthy income tax payers­most of them living in the city in luxury -bear the burden of the railway deficit."

\'\'hen I a<ked a question here the other morniq; the Premier deni0d E'Ver having made the statement ,Juring the election can1paign, exactly as he has no'v denied making tho statement to J\1r. Bruce, when he attended a conference on behalf of Queensland. that lw was not opposed to the withdrawing of the per capita payments. Jt is regrettable th<et we have public men who will not stand up consist0ntly to what they think on such matter'. I realise that 1·hc financial position of Queensland is such that it is important that" Dr. Earle Page and Mr. Bruc~> should review the position Ycry carcful1v before thev withdraw anv money at all from our 'state, but afte'r all. what is at the bottom of the nresent condition of things? What is the ·reason why our State is in the difficulti8<3 in which we find it? We on this side have cautioned the Government often enough. The Premier and other Ministers who know anything about business at all realise that it is quite impossible to get men to speml

1926-K

capital within our State boundaries if they arc constantlv interfered with. I have already quoted the land tnx. which is dis­a:.trou~ from every point of vie\v. The in­crea3e in raihvu~v fares and freights is another instance of taxation which is going to fall most heavily on the producers of the State. I have no hesitation in saying that largely they are going to cany the burden. First of all. they will carry the 10 per cont. incrPasc din,,·th· on the forwarding of their prodnce anc1 obtaining their goods in the coantry. and 8 ]~o in the farc3 thev haYG to pa;' for the long Jist,·noes they' have to travel in orJ.cr to reach the btrg·er centres of population: and then indirectly the:v \.ill br• t~xcd by the business concern;:; with which t!wv th'a't and who will practicnllv pass 011 tiw t:n: from one portion of th~ communtiv to another till it finallv rests c·n th0 prlma r~'l producer, Y'<ho is not ·able to pass it on. I 1': ali'·0. a:;; do other hon. lnern­h,•rs on this side of the House, that th·• Go .. ·prnrnPJ:t ha Yr allo ,' cd the nosition to drift so lo 11fr without rnaking a;y effort to nnt thC' 1·aiLYa~-:3 on a bnsine~s footing, and h( lp to\Y, rJ-: a p:rcat::.•r production in thz• cOIU1t:·_v distl'ict~. that thP_v have got into a dist1 tron-; flnancia1 pos~tion.

Fron1 ni!" point of Yicw the position of the rai h\·a v:- i~ a r;Teat dcv I rnore serious thau most People L1i.nk. br:c tuse for years pa-;;:t ''· (' ha ye be-en hauling a tremendous arnount of timber loug distances over those raih·Y'ays. Timber has c-onstituted a largo amount of fn:ight on 111a11:v of our country lines. To-day we arc warned by the Forestry Department that our fore,ts ar(l being de­pleted and that our forestry resources, par­ticular]:~· in soft woods, at the present rate of hewing. wiil be exhausted in twelve ycan. That will moan that a considerable amount of freight that WO haYe been accustomed to com·ey over our railwa'' ill be considerablv dimi,{is,lwcl. Tl:.e Government have made no pfiort to build up industries to supply that lo'S of freight. They have laid down no d('finite 1-usinP'-S propositi.on for enoouraging increased agricultura 1 production to take the place of the timbPr freight on onr railways.

At 3 p.m .. The CnATR:\L\X 017 CO:\DlTTTEES C1Ir. Polloek,

GN(Jory) rclirov·cd the Spe~ker in the chair.

:'Hr. EDIYARDS: For a long time I havc rcali"'cd that ~.ve ha Vf' not been making satis­factory her! cbsa,: ·with our sct:ondar.v indus­tries. and haYP 110t kept pace with tho other States of .\ustralia. particularly Victoria. There must be sonw reason for this backward­ness jn that. regard. \Ve are all U\Vare that Qnccnsland is the largc't producer of many kinds of raw material that could be mann­factured in this State. Queensland is the largest producer of hides in Austr,,lia; but n·e send practicaily the whole of our raw tnaterial from that source to bo manufac­tured in Melbourne. and then pay the freight to Queensland on th<' manufactured article, That y, orLs to the detriment of this State in manv wa vs. csneciallv in the direction of rdardi:rig fui·ther- efforts in primary produc­tion. In the first place, we arc not able to constitute a reliable home market by the creation of largo indnstrinl centres ,,hero a eonsiderabl0 quantit:.· of our primary pro­ducts could be absorood. This is a very important matttr. and in view of the State's pre~>:'nt financial position, I hope the Govern­ment will give very careful consideration to the est a biishment of secondary industries in

Mr. Edwarcls.J

130 Addres8 in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address ·in R~ply.

this State for the manufacture of our pri­mary products, thus creating a home market which is so essential.

Much has been said with respect to the contemplated increase in salaries of members of Parliament. I "ould be wanting in my duty if I did not make some comment on that matter. l\o1v election costs as much in expensC'q .as any vayerage country electorate, but I feel that, in face of the prr-,em difficul­ties in the country the ti·nc is not opportune for suf'h an increa:-q::'. and I am going to give 1ny rl .1~on for sa,ying so. I do not contend for one noomcnt that couutry members of l'arli;,ment are paid what might be> termed a suflicient salary to do the fair thing under present conditions, but in j usticc to the whole of the Strrte, e rnust realise that great sacrific.._,s are b~ing n1ade by tho::,c people ,,-ho are developing the State in the country disiri('t,;,, and that sorno of their sacrifices should be shared bv memb('l'R of Parliament. I will give an instance of the irccmc of " da1rv farmer to show hon. members so1ne of the clifficultic9 that these men are labouring under at the present time.

:vh. CoLLINS: Is it a fair av~rrtge?

:Y1r. EDW~\RDS: I a:n not saying that it is. It would be disastrous if it were; but what I am contending is that it is fair for us as legislators tD take notice of and attempt to realis0 some of the hardships that arc being borne bv those who are <'ngaged in developing our country areas. I want to make it clear that the case I quote is net an average-! thank God it is not. Here is a man's income for the past twelve months-

1925-July .. , September October Novelr!ber December

1926-Januarv Februai·y March April May June

Total

£ s. d. 0 12 11 2 11 2 3 1 7 3 13 6 5 6 5

8 12 4 5 16 9 3 7 5 1 8 8 0 15 0

----£35 5 9

This man is working on his place, notwith­standing the fact that the bank has taken possession of it. The bank has left him in cha·rge of the stock, and he believes that if rain comes shortly, there is a possibility' of his getting something out of it; that is the reason why he is still hanging on.

Mr. CoLLINS: Send that to the British Isles, and we will get no more immigrants!

Mr. EDW ARDS: I know that the hon. member fer Bowen is serious in regard to these matters. There are many such cases in Queensland. That is one reason why the Govcrnment--w ho a·rc supposed to assist the man on the bottom rung of the ladder­should give such men every possible assis­tance. I contend that this man whose position I have quoted, even with such a Rmall income, is doing a big work in the interests of the State, because he is clearing the land he is occupying, and he makes the statement in his letter to me that he is also fencing it. He is one of the settlers in the backblocks of Queensland who is trying to do his best. 'I'hat, I say, is one reason why the question of increasing the salaries of

[Mr. Edwards.

members of Parliament at the present time should be very carefully weighed. If we a·re going to · ask the people outside to economise to help us to put the State on a sound financial basis, naturally we ·hould set the example. Therefore it is necessary for us to give car('ful consideration to the position of our railways; secondly, to the disastrous Land Acts that have been passed and that are holding up the prosperity of our countn districts; and. thirdly, we should consider vc·ry carefully indeed whether we c u a."· ist the countrv to such an extent that we can encourag-e largo numbers of suitable people to settle in the country dis­tricts of Queensland. Two conditions must he brou::;ht about bdore we can hope to effect that. \Vc must, first of all, encourage; in ever:' shap<o and form the free expendi­ture of private capital. It is one thing to ask people' with n1oney to go i11to the country dist·ricts of the State and quite another thing ,vhen they have no money with which to go there. Every encouragement should be given to bring· men \vith capital frcrn all parts of the world. \Y c should appreciate the fact that land is an asset, and prove to these people that money may be expended upon that land with an assurance of a safe return. Until then we cannot hope to improve the condition of the State. It is well known that to-day there is less land under occupation than then· was in 1915. and the reason for that is because large areas of our country lands are being overrun with prickly-pear. While I admit that the Prickly-pear Land Commission is doing everything it can to check the menace, it has a difficult problem if it cannot get people with the neceqsary money to cultivate and improve that countr;: when the pear is checked or cleared off. Those things have; to be taken into consideration. The Govern­ment would be doing more good for our people if they gave more time to the welfare of this State from a business point of view, instead of interesting themselves so much in the referenda which the Commonwealth Government arc submitting to the States. There is a lot of confusion even in Labour ranks in regard to these referenda questions. One of the best brains supporting the Labour party and one of their most f&r-seeing men, Mr. Charlton, is giving the proposals his snpport, and we have the leaders of both parties in the Commonwealth backing up the propo3als. It must therefore be quite clear that those proposals should be carried, so that the better conditions in regard to the running of the Commonwealth as a whole can be hrought about.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER : The hon. member has exhausted the time allowed him under the Standing Orders.

Mr. DASH (lJI•unclingburra): I desire to congratulate you, :Mr. Pollock, on agam being elected Deputy Speaker and Chairman of Committees of the House. Everyone will admit. that in the past you have always given satisfaction to both sides of the House. I must also congratulate the mover and seconder of the Address in Reply on the able manner in which they put forward their side of the argument, and no doubt before long they will be able to hold their own in debate \vith any member of the House.

One would naturally have thought that members of the Opposition in, speaking to the motion for the adoption of the Address m Reply would have dealt in a business-like

Address in Reply. [5 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 131

manner with some of the proposals put for· ward in the Lieutenant-Governor's Speech; but, after listening to the hon. member who has just resumed his seat, I do not wonder that they still remain on the Opposition benches. They always have the same old wail in the country and in the House.

We all deplore the drought that is raging in the central portion of Queensland at the prbcnt t.ime, but the position in which the pastoralisb find themselves is largely due to their own fault. \Ve know that when sea~ons are good no attc1npt is made to conserve fodder. They allo" their country to bo over otocked, trusting to gcod seasons ,ear aft.er year; and no attempt whatever is made to cut hay and stack it so that in a time of drought they will be able to feed therr stock, or at least the most vaJu­able of their stock, and thereby save a large number. Instead of preparing for a bad c·•ason, they depend on the Govern­ment to come to their assistance in every shape and form, 'vhi!e at the same time their reprecentatives in this House criticise the Government for coming to their assist­ance. They crrticiso the management. of the railways for having a big deficit. forgetting that that deficit has l:,een brought about to a great extent., by the low freights charged for the ?arriage of starving stock and for the carnage of fodder to starving stock. They also criticise the Government over the spread. of prickly-pear. This party is not responsrblc for the spread of prickly-pear m Qu<:'ensland. .Whe~ the Nationalist party were m power m th1s State thev made no attempt whatever to check t·he" spread of prickly-pear or to make the lessees who had pear on t~eir . P':operty do something to­wards keepmg rt m check. The pastora!ists in th~ past cared nothing about the spread of pnckl}'-pear. All they cared about. was to get as ~uch out of. the country as they could, leavwg the eradrcation of the prickly­pear• to someone else. Although the Govern­ment are doing something to check the spread of pear, members of the Opposition con~end th.at they are doing nothing in connection wrth th<J matter. It must be admitted that thf' Pricklv-pear Land Commission that has ?een appointed has done good work in check­mg the spread of pear and in aosistin~ to eradicate it.

0

I notice a reference in the Speech to tho svstem of dental inspection which has been established in connection with school chil­dren. That was verv necessary, and if th~ finances will allow, it could be carried a step furth~r. Ther'.' . are many parenb who are not m a posrtron to pay the high fees charged for dental work for their chil·dren. and if the Government could find some wav of giving assi.'ctance on. these lines to parents m the outlymg portiOns of the State. it would be very beneficial. It is all rio-ht to hanl a dental college in Brisbane wh~;e the studentc, arc in attendance from day to day­and a very cheap and good dental service 1s .being rendered to the poor people of Brrsbane-but the benefits of thte scheme should b~ 0xtcnded to country districts. Anv­one who has taken the orportunitv to Yi~it the dental institution in Brisbane· will find that it is doing very good work. The officer m charge is P''instaking, and is doinc the best he can with the means at his disnoFcl. f am very pleased to see that the department h..,, ta~H't! ~on1e fJction to,varch rr'111Gdc11ing the hmldmg and snpplving up-to-date ecmip­ment, and before long there is no doubt that

the institntion "ill be of much greater benefit to tlw sttrdents and also to the poor people of fhi .. , bane.

A motor-car has been fitted up for the pnrpmc of giYing instruction to students in th< '·'ay back portions of Queensland, and that hus been one of the hest things the Uovernment haYc done. Thc•s.-, arc three ~;ood thillgs that the GoYernment have done -~name!:·.~ the cstablishmcut of a donJe~.tic ~ciC'l:C'P ('lass on the railway car manual trainiu!{ classes, and no.,·.r the· dcnt;~,l classes. I tbi .lr ihat something- should be done to c·,tab!i~h a baby clinic car on the san1c lines tn" ;ist tl1"' people in the outlying por'::ions of thl ~,t) f.: ar~d gi \"e them sin1ilar benefits to •xhar the• people in the tovn1 have ht>Pll given. Thr clinic, which ha'," been c3tnbliehed are (loi~~~- f~·ood ·work, nnd anyono who visits tlw;n w1ll sec thP good "'ork which is bcino­donc in c.aving the child life of this State. b

A gr0at den! has been said about the polio,· pf t~10 Con::'rnruent in regard to the working of t:1c railwa:.'s. The Railwa'' Department hr.s to c.ary a great responsibility. The drought whrch has taken place has made it iwpPrativc for the GoYernmcnt to run trains at o';ertime rates of pa,l. The railways are l axNt to the uhnost, and arc eompcllcd to car:'7 starving stock and fodder at a reduced ~,~;te. 'Yhich do(":l r,Jt pgy ·~orking cxpen~cs. ~n~ ~~nlplo.vcc-; on _the rnll.'va:;~s_ aro dotng

lnc1r ne,,( to cope w1th the srtnatwn. As the f'pcrctary for Raihcays pointed out vesterdav tt: nllS'>'"Pr to a question, ,ye have "so manV miles of single lino that it has been a grea't tax on th0 officers of the Railwav Depart~ ment to keep the trains running. The officers are to be commended for the able mann~r in ":hich they are handling !he srtuatron. Qm.te recently, when a deputation of rcpresentabves of the pastoralists waited unon the Commissioner for Railways com­nl aining a bout the hold-up of fodder at Townsville. the Commissioner rightly porntod out to t~em that the Railway Jkpartment .was .domg everything possible to rehe,·e thp s1tuatwn; and when the members of. t!w deputation realised what the Com­nu~ r?ner was doing, . they went away quite satisfied tha~ 0verythrng pr;ssrble ,, as being done to rPheve the srtuatron, and in fact wmo o£ the members of the deputation thanked the Commissioner for the attitude he had taken up.

I noticed also in the policy speech '·I hich 'vas delrvered by the Premier that more up­to-dat.e wor!<S \or railway purposes are to be established rn North Queensland-for instance at . Cairns, Townsvil!c, and other places: Th1s h~s been a long-felt want in the North, and wrth the completion of the Mount Isa Rarlway. and the amount of work which will be necessary to provi.de carriage and wagons for th~t.lme, accordmg to the statement of the :Yimrster. a large number of wao-ons will haw to be built in the Townsvillc a~d other worbhops. \Ve kno'~ that thfl workshops at To,vnsvrlle are anythrng but up to date. and we have been promised more up-to-date shops ~ncl mo,·e .up-t~~dato m:~chinery, as far as the fmanccs wlll aLm>. These arn matters which \Yill greatly a•,sist in the carrying out of the work on the Great Northern Raihva,· and on th,, North Coast Railway. The op.enino- of the latter has inmosed a ~treat tax on~ the l'P90nrces of tho Raih:vav Denartmcnt., and I a m very pleased to .see that ·m order has h0Pn given for ne\v cngirH';;· I am sorrv to think that we have to purchase them from

Mt·. Dash.J

132 Address 1:n Reply. [ASSEl\IBLY.] Address in Reply.

overseas, but, owing to the position which has ari en, it is nec'""ary that they should be procured at the earliest possible date, and thereby assist in relieving the difficulties ere a ted by the opening of the ?-1 orth Coast Railway.

:'\1r. KERR : Do you not think they could have seen that before?

~h. DASH: No doubt they could have seen it before, but we must remember that the Government had to act within the limits of the finances ear-marked for railway con­struction and maintenance. \V c caunot take all the money available and devote it to one purpose whilst other departments go short.

Eeference has been made in the Spe•>Ch of the Lieutenant-Governor to pensions for vvidows and orphans. 'Ihes<>, too. are long­felt wants. It cannot be questioned that members of this party have considered the question £or son1e time, and no\Y an effort 'vill be n1ade during· this session to place the nece:;::sary legislation on tho statute-book. It is a xncasure \vhieh is highly essential, and. vthen the A_ct cmne;; into opcratio:n, a wido',v, inst,~ad of going along t-o the State A1d Dcpartn1ent, n nd getting her allo\vanec as a dole, will be abk to draw it a· a r<gLt.

A good deal has been said to-day about the anH'ndn1f~nt of the \Vorkt>rs' Conlpe::u,u.­tion Act. The hon. member for Kurilpa seemed to take credit to his party because we have on the statute-book to-day such a measure, but I w·ant to say that. although an Act mav have been on the stacute-book when this ·party came into oflice, it was administer·ed in such way that the injured worker got very little benefit out of it. I can remember that durin::; the term when I was a union oflicial we had t.hc greatest difficuity in securing compensation for injured workers. In ncarlv every case \YC had to

prosecute the cmnpanies in order [3.30 p.m.] to comnel them to pay the corn­- pensation tho \vorkcrs were~

entitled to. In most cases, if the union had deducted the legal expenses from the amoullt of compensation awarded, the dependants of the in.i ured TOr ker would ha Ye received very little indeed. In fact. in many instanCl"S the expenses of fighting a case cxc ceded the amount of compensation avvardod. Under the present Act the injured worker lHLS no difficulty in obtaining a fair and reasonable settlement of all claims brought before the department. The Act is administered in a very sympathetic 1nanner, and \r..re hope that the sympathetic tendencies of the Commis­sioner and his officers will be continued. \Ye must realiso that for some time past th•! arr1ount of con:1ponsation paid was not adequate, and that under our present hospital system an:: pPrson who c~n afford to pay must pay for the tr-.atm0nt that he receives in the public hospitals. and the expenses incurred b-y an injured \\ orker are n1uch greater than they have been in the past. It is, therefore, the intention of the Govern­ment to amend the \Vorke1·s' Compensation Act. granting greater benefits to the injured worker. It has been the policy of the depart­ment wherev-er possible to do such things as will place th0 i11jurcd worker in the same position that he was in prior to his injury. In many ins·'·mces a considerable portion has been expended in addition to compensation in an endeavour to fit the worker again to follow his occupction. Whcr,_> it has been impoc•ib1o to do that he has received full benefit of t.hc con1p.ensation.

;Jir. D,zsh_

The \Vorkcrs' Homes Act is an excellent measure, and operates in the interests of "·orkcrs with a limited amount of capital. It. permits them to own their own homes.

Every effort is being made to extend educa­tional frrcilities to the children of Queensland. During· the year 1914, 368 scholar~hips were granted, and in 1925 the number an1ounted to L594. An endor..vour has been made by nlcans of correspondence schools to extend Pducational facilities to children in the back country. At the inauguration of that system eighty-three pupils were enrolled, and at the close of last year 2,528 children were enrolled and thirty-two teachers employed on thic; beneficial undertaking. \Vith that Ry· tom in operation, and with tho number of teachers employed. the department still cxpPricnr .:-s difficulty in extending co1nplete educational facilities to the children of Qucl'nsland. Itinerant teachers arc being provided vvith motor-cars to enable them to Yisit the children n1ore often and to carrv out the ''. ork more expeditiously. Almo;t ever~, child in Queensland to-dav is able to r 'CPivc education. Even the children of the aborig·ine.; arc being tau;ht in the public schools and are bciug given equal opportuni­ties in matters of cducation with the white children of the State. A few months ago. in companv with the Home Secrctar;~ a_nd sorilP ·hon. members of the Opposi­tion. I had an oppor:unity of visiting the Barambah .Mission Station. We wcrf! quite surprised to witness the great work that was being done there in educating the children of tl1e abori::;inals. Not onlv were they being cducated in the schools, but we also di_scov0rcd that a .-ery fine system of domestiC science had been established, and t'>at those subjeci-9 ,,-ere also being taught to these children. The hoys were being taught trades which would greatlv assist them in their little communitv. In fact. ir, a few y<'crs w0 mig-ht se(' the .. bbck settle: n1\'nts of Oneenslrrnd -.,2lf ~ontaincd. Everv­thing that is possible to make these black c.)m 1nnnitif's ~E'lf-reJiant js being done. That i~ 8ho the rase in respect to the mission 6t.ation:::..

Before thn .Labour party "a- established, gaols were being built in the various States for the ccption of people for having com­mitted vYhat vv-crc considered in those daYs to be rrimes. when in rea]it'tr they were on"I:y~ f\g·hting for their rights. The advent of the Lahonr party and the system of education thcv hav-e established has brouo-ht about quite a different resnlt. <tnd we fi~d that in ~uch a place as l\1(' \botlrne, for instanu\ the gn ol is being (1emolished. and a domestic soience school ere-cted on the site'. \Ve have also witnc~scd a. similar state of affB.lrs jn Sydney. so that. instuad of building gaols, to-day we are building· schools. Even in Queensland a step has been taken in that direction. vVc are closing up the St. Helena penal C'stabliPhment, .and converting it jnto a pleasure resort, instead of an institntion to house criminals. \Vc hope that. with the advance of education, the people will become so enlightened and contented under the con­ditions brought about by the Labour move­ment that there will be no necessity for the number of gaols we have in Australiu to-day.

IV;, find from the policy speech delivered by the leader of the Opposition during the r• cent election that his prrrty were prepared to re-establish the Upper House. That was r .. clear indication to the people of Queens­land that the Opposition were incapable of

Address in Reply. [ 5 Ac;GLTST.] Address in Reply. 133

carrying on the government of t.bis State. The leader of the Opposition made a state­ment that his nartv de,ired the re-establish­ment of the e ;,per" House for the prevention of hasty legislation. We also know that some time ago that porty realised that they were not eapa ble of c,, rrying on under their pre­sent leaders. \Vhen Sir Thoma' Robinson, the ex-Agent-General for Queensland, returned to this State, the hon. member for Oxley forwarded urgent telegrams to him, announcing that he was prepared to resign his .seat in favour of that gentleman for the purpose of giving him the opportunity of leading the Opposition.

Yir. CoRSER: That did not s.ty he would have obtr.inod the loader,hip. That was only the opinion of one man.

::VIr. DAS1I: Sir Thomas Robinson '\Va'S

offered the seat, but turned it down. Mr. CoaSER: That is right; he was offered

the seat, and he turned it down.

Mr. DASH: The offer of the scat was a cmdition uf the lc·.1clorship. but he would not toko it on. Later the leadership wa.s offered to Sir William Glasg·ow.

Mr. CoRSER: That is not true, either.

Mr. DASH : Later still. the leadership was offered to Mr. Hugh 11acrossan, now Mr. Justice Macrossan.

:Mr. MORGA~': There is no truth in that.

Mr. D~\SH: It was freelY rumoured dur­ing the receo t election that, if 2\Ir. ::YlcGill was succe"ful in his candidature against the hon. member for South Brisbane. he would be appointed to the leadership of the party opposite.

Mr. CORSER: There are a lot of rumours at election time.

The DEFCTY SPEAKER: Order ! Order!

Mr. DASH : The people of Queensland wore not prepared to a<'~ept the policy of the leader of the Opposition, and again returw;d the Labour party to the Treasury benches.

Mr. MoRGAK: With a minority? At 3.40 p.m., The SPEAKER resumed the chair.

Mr. DASH: A good deal has been said in connec-tion with the referenda proposals, as to whether they should be decided in the affirmatiYe or in- tho negative. So fa'l· as the Labour moYement of Queensland and the other States is concerned, the referenda pr011osals will be turned down, and rightly so. The hon. member for \Vindsor made the statement this morning that where two awards operated for the same industrv the employees could choose which awa·rd" they desired to work under. That is not so. \Vhen a Federal award is made for an industry it OYerrides the State a" ud, and it has been mled that dPcisions of the Federal Court may override a State law.

Mr. MORGA~: What about the shearing industry? You know that is so there.

Mr. DASH: The hon. member does not know whr.t he is talking about. The Federal award in the sl:eadng industry can override t.he State ~ward pnly so far as the employers who are crted before the Federal Court are concerned. 'l'hat does not mean tltat the employees can choose which award they wish to work under. Whenever a State award comes into conflict with a Federal

award all the employers and employc•e,; cited ander the Federal award mu"t abide by the Federal award; but that dol's not ;novcnt the State industrial courts frmn n1aking an award in the pastoral industry for those not already cited.

\Ve also find that th" Feder.rl Arbit·mtion Court cannot make a common rul•J. 'I'!tat is, where the award applies to a certain industry whc·ro the 0mployers have not been cited the award cannot be made a common rule to apply to those employers. \Ve have found t :1at. while Commonwealth awards have been operating in an industry, no employer in this State has been foolish enough not to obey t ~·c rates and c1nditions of that a ward, although not bound to do it.

Rega,rding the refPrenda proposals we find lhat the Brucc-Page Government do not want the pa>Prs for themselves to deal with the rates and cm,ditious of the workers in indu8try in AuPtralia. They are not pre­pnrcd to take the power to the Common­wealth to exercise control, but they are ask­ing that power shall be given for the purpose nl amending the Constitution by placing m tlw Con·,titution the ·right for an authorit.v to be established as part of the Constitution to deal with the wages, hours, and conditions cf the workers of Australia. \Vhcn it is estab­lished, there will be no appeal f-rom that court to any Parliament. because any appeal will be fmile, as the Commonwealth Arbitration Court, with the authority established for life, will then be the only tribunal able to deal with th<.: conditions of the industrial workers uf Aust-ra.lia. I do not think that the workers of Australia will be foolish enough to delegate those powers to some authority higher than Parliament. Had the Federal Government come forward with proposals for the purpose of giving Parliament more power to deal with the industrial situation in Aus­tralia on the same lines as were put forwa-rd bv the Labour Federal Government, the w'nrkers of Australia and the Labour move­ment would have been behind the extension of those powers. At the present time they t'onlise that by granting the powers asked for they will be delegating those powers to oomc one outside the authority of the Com­monwealth Parliament. It has been said that Parliament will be able to dictate to the judge:; of that court. Some authorities say that they can, while other authorities say that they cannot ; and the workers, in order to be on the safe side, are urged in every possible manner to defeat t~ese pro­posals. Ko one has yet b,en able to mterpret fully what the proposals mean, because a few ·.vords have been tacked on to the end of each paragraph which give very wide powers and which no one seems to understand. It would be foolish to grant these powers until we arc certain of their application.

Vv"' e find also a very important proposal att-ached to the one dealing with industrial matteL. That is the resolution dealing with c.'sential services. They do not define what is an esRential service so far as industry, or h·ado or commerce is concerned. We know that cv-Pry worker engaged in any calling i:3 engaged in a service which is essP.ntia.l to some industry. Take as an instance the raihvays, r:hipping, t.he post office, r}r many another calling.

Mr. MoRGAN: They mean the essential to life or health.

Mr. DASH: There rs no service that is not essential to life or health. Prior to

Mr. Dash.]

134 Addre8s in Reply, [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

submitting the present proposals to a referendum, the Commonwealth Parliament placed on t.he statute-book an Act known as the Crimes Act. 'The Prime Minister in his policy speech, during the last Federal election, stated that he was going to hand over to the members the authority to run their own unions and control their own busi­ness. \Ve know how the Commonwealth GoYNnment, during the strike of engineers, passed a regulation restraining the union from withdrawing any of its funds from the bank to assist its members who were putting up a fight for better conditions. The :--;ationnlists do not like to see unions using their funds for the purpose of securing LaL~lur rcpre cntation in Parliament, and

know what would happen if tlus pro­posal was carried. One of the very first mcasm·,o.. introduced would be an amend­ment of the Trades Union law prohibiting all unions from using their funds for the purpose of establishing a Labour paper, and T1reventing thcn1 fro1n using their funds for the purpose of securing Labour ropre~ swbtion in Parliament. If the referen­durn proposals are carried, it is no use the workers squealing and saying that they did not know what was contained in the proposals. \Ve also know that immediately a union attempted to aS'ist other men on strike, or attempted to use its funds for the purpo>o of giving assistaneP. thev would be restrained from doing so. The whole matter of uniJn control would be taken out of the hands of the union, and probabl:v handed oYer to t-he military. \Vo know that when a union is out to scrap for its existence every effort will be made to stifle it.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICC:LTcRE: As was done by Senator Thompson, for instance.

:\Ir. DASH: No doubt Senator Thompson has 11ot forgotten his actions in the earlv days of the trade union movement in thi's State. I hope that the workers v, ill not be so foolish as to hand OYPr those powc•;·s, ·and allov; r:on1eone else to takP a\Yav their con­trol and management of their own unions.

~\ good dP,al has been said about th·: mis­managonwnt of the State, and that people will not come here to settle owing· to tho tm,manag·omcnt that has been going on. Some time ago Dr. John R. Mott came to Brif'banc to n:.ake inquirie~ into the condi­lion~ in this State. and at a function held in Brisbane. ho said ho was quite pleased •.:-ith the ':""Y that fe'neensland legislation had ~.;een { 1rned out. J-Ie had this to sa';,r-

" Dr .. John R. Mott rema;-J,ed that he ha·l Lc'-n impr<;3sed by thn socinl lq:(is. latwn of Australia; by the "av the youth of the nation had bo•'n · safe­'~unnJcd; by the 1.> ay justice hJ.d boon done to ,, ornonhood and old ag·o; :·nd b' the ~ c .1oml comfort of tho masses of th'e r ·-.oplo. The sanity and effeetivcnes3 of the rconon1ic legislation mad·~ a pro­found a pp 'al. 0uet?nslnnd, he added. bad rnad'-' unhclicYablo progrsss."

Di·. 1\.Iott. carne to Que9nslrtnd, not at the rctlUf'.st of thP Queensland Govcrnrncmt but ?f his . o-\vn free \Y~ll. to inquire int; the 1ndtutrnll and sor1al legislation of this GoYern:rnont and he gave groat praise to the Government for the social legislation they have phc<·d upon the statut,:book of rho State.

::Wr. ~.L\xWELL : Are you sure he did?

Mr. DASH: Yes.

[Mr. Dash

Mr. l\1.\XWELL: I am sure he did not. lVIr. 'WI:\ST.\XLEY: He did s:ty it.

1\Ir. DASH: Alt·hough the hon. member foe' Too:;·ong was able to paint out the state­ments made at the meeting of the Employers' Federation, he is not able to paint out the stahcnwnt made by Dr. :Hott. (Laughter.) Thr; M ay or of Greater Bri.3bano, Alderman \\'. c\. J.o!l:y, speaking at a function, said-

,. People rcvisitinr; Bri~bane after an absence of a nurnbcr of years 1vould see the wonderful progress this city had made•. It was mlLking more progress than any of the other capital cities."

That is the statement of the Mayor of Creatcr Brisbane, \Vho is not a Labour rua vor. and \\ ho ha:,:, recollcd.ions of the vvork tha't has been done by this Government during the past eleven ypars. At the Fame function, ;;;rr. H. \Yalsh, of l\'e\1' South \Yales, rPf<'rring to Brisbane, said~

"At the rah! lt \Vas gro-..,--;-ing, it might be the leading Austra!i'ln city in twenty y,_:a rs' tlrnc."

Iie had no reason to believe that tho Labour party wa~ going out at tho next election. He ;cas quite satisfied that the Labour party ~.ronld be here for the next twcllt, voars. and j,p ai•J that it looked as if B-ri~banc was goiug to bCcon1o one of the l ,, ::tding cities of An tralia. Another delegate to the same conference had son1ething to ~ay of a similar nntnr0.

Members of the Opposition, when speaking on the question of an incl'cascd Parliamen­tary allowance, have stated that they do not think we arc entitled to any increase. Now, I am prepared to say that I am in accord with the granting of the increase, and I am prepared to take my responsibility in regard to it.

:\fr. COLLll>'S: '\V e will all take it.

J\Ir. DASH: I have always stated at union conferences and elsewhere that the amount oi mono,- paid to responsible officers carrying on the iood 'vork of a union is not sufficient to rcmuneratP them adequately for their ser­;-ices. We found quite recently that the Pas­toralists' Association paid as high as £2,000 and £2.500 to the officials who watched their interests.

The SPEAKER: Order ! The hon. mem­Jcr has exhausted the time allowed him under the Standing Orders.

Mr. MAXWELL ('l'oowong): During the course of this debate the Premier has stated, amongst other things, that we live in the present and in the future, and not in the nnst. and that it would be better for us to ~leal with matters ''' thE'Y arc to-dav and as thev are likolv to be than to discuss things tha·t are gone'. IIe said, for instance, that we should not deal with literature which has been circulated on pre,-ious occasions. That rni'!'ht be quite aJI right for the Premier and his- colleague', and those 1vith wi:om be has been associated on former occaswns, but I for one, as representing a metropolitan con­stituency, do not feel disposed to allow t_he Premier to shift the responsibility as oastly as nll that. It is only nece<.sary for me to draw attention to the statements which were made b,- these o-entlemon prior to their advent ;n the T~easury benches, such, for instance, as their declaration that "finance was the test of government." It was on those statements that the people first

Address in Reply. [5 AUGUST.) Address in Reply. 135

Teturned them. Is it any wonder that, hav­mg paesPd through the period which we have expodenced, so that we are now prac­tically in a state of financial chaos, the Pre­tnier vr~nts to forget it. and says to us, "Let the dead past bury its dead "" ='io, the dead are not going to bnry it; the living are going to bury it, and arc going to live at the same tune. Even in this vcrv connection it is peculiar that we have h"eard contradictory f'tarenH:nts frmn the Prmnicr hin1self. No\V he de ircs to let the past be forgotten, to ha ye nothiug at all to do with it; he asks us to co-operate with him in trying to make this Slate as ,;-ood as it should be. Can it be the s·<me man ,,-ho traduced the leader of the Opposition. who traduced hon. members of the Opposition. as being unworthy of ihe po:-~ition thPy occupied, and not having the abilit.v to deal with matters of State, and therefore as not deserving to be given an opportunity to do so? Yet. having said that. he no'v has the impertinence to turn round and c .Y to members on this side of the House in effect, '·You have the ability, and I want ~11 the help you c.tn give n1c." \Yhat a con­tradictorv statement to make ! It does lwhove r ~crv member of the House to do all that he can: quite irreS')Wctivc: of partv poli­tics, to bring thi;; State back to its old con­dition and p1acP it in a sound financi,tl posi­tion, YPrv difft-r211t frorn that in V; hich '"e find it tc;.dcty.

It is necessary for me to refer to what the Premier and l;is colleagues did during the r.:cent election:-<.. Postn1ortems at any tirnc an~ not too satisfactory, and one doeq not like rdPrrino· to them but we find the

le';der of the Government and [4 p.n1.] ~onlr> Df hi::; colleagues finding

hull with a gentleman whose -:-.hot~s thc_y are not. fit to tie-a gentleman v. ho conductecl the campaign in a dec>'nt, honourable. and straightforward manner­settin~C,· forth the policy that was acceptable to t·hc majoritv of the electors. Notwith­standing th<tt the majority Df the electors fanmred the policy of the Opposition, the Co\·ernn1r-~1t have bePn successful in securing a mrrjority of the seats, and they hold the reins of po-ser for another three Years. That clocs not alter the fact that derrwcracy has ;, pokon. \\" e kncnv 'vhat dernocrntic rule n1car:;s. \Y c knovv it m0ans goYcrnrnent of the Jll'Op!<- by the· people for the people. b that principle embodied in the efforts of the GoY~'l'nn1ent? 1 say, "No." That hos bPcn exploded by the hon. member for Tomnbul and other hon. members .,n this siciP. It has l>ccn pointed out that !he electoral districts '.-;-eJ'C gerrymandered m such a 1 ay that hon. members opposite (·ould rt'tain thP reins of goYcrnn1ent. Let me rcfnr hon. members oppmite tJ 1920, \Y'hcn th •v had fnajority of on0. The· re waio a different position in 1923. after they had appoiLted three men to redistribute the <·kd'lrc<!c '• \Vc have been told bv halL members opposite that members of the Opposition wore perfectly sati,fied with the 1 rea h1ent mct"d out to them bv those men. V\ e a re told that. in face of the strenuous prote<b made b,v city members and country members.. and c•speciallv bv those whose f'OPstitucn ·ics had bPen ~Pli~in8..ted, against the in 1tmcnt that heel been meted out to them. Is it any wonder that in 1923 hDn. D1C'nlbt:"'rs oppo.~ite were again nble to secure the reins of Government, and again in 1926 \Ye re succo~sful under such conditions ? All we ha'"'' to do is to analyse the position in

the :1\orth to see how the Government got the "wind up" in that portion of Queens­land. Practically from Cairns down to belm1· Hockhn,mpton tho whole country side V.'ag a ranvas tOWil. rrhcrc WaS a regular stir 'md wonderful commotion and agitation all round the nHious departments to see that every unfortunate n1an got cn1ployn1cnt in constituenciPs where Labour could hold tlw situation. \Vhat did the Premier sav in con­nection with these matters in the· :1\or!h' lie is reporto'l as having mad' certain remarks. but I should be ve1:y sorrv to credit him W'ith Laving made them. ·The official organ at lnnisfail in its publication of lOth April last amongst othor things said-

" Mr. McCormack said he ·., o,nted to \varn then1 that Labour wa;;;; goh1g to \vin. and, if the electors of Herbert were '"'0 foolish as to return the rroly cand!­dcde, then he as Prcrnicr snrclv could not b" expected to give auy attc;1tion to the future needs of the Ilerbel"t electo­rn te."

To me that is one of the most contemptible thing.=5 I haYe ever known a leader of a GovcTJnnent or any l\Iinister or nwrnber of Parliament to say. It pl'actically meant that, unless the electors were prepared to return the Premier's supporter. the electorate "\Yonld receive no furtht~r consideration frorn thP Govcnunent.

Let me now refpr to the remarks bv Mr. ThPodorP \vhen in Opposition in dealing with r..,imilar remarks that vverP a_llegccl to have ]J<'Cn made hv the then hon. member f<Jr Port Cm·tis ~.fr. K0ssell. lVlr. Th0odore at poge 90 o~ -,'I-f amard" for 1914 said-

" That would be a permcwus prin­ciple to establish and I do nDt t·hink any responsible member of this House wDuld indulge in such promises."

But what a difference when t.he shoe pinches the other side ! I am sorry the Premier is not in his place. I wDuld not have attri­buted to him such a statemeut had I not followed the whole of his tour from the South to t,he North and from Centre to the West. I find that throughout that tour threat, and promises were made. The hon. gentleman saicl in effect, " Return to power the Xational-Progressive party and there is going t.o be the elimination of the 44-hour week; there will be no childhood f'ndow­n1ent, and no hun1anitarian legislation." ::\o one is in a better position ·t:wn the hon. t;entleman to knDw that was wrong. \Vhy. i,e himself admitted Vf''terdav that he had not beJioYed in a 4'1-llOUr Week. yet. a short time previously he said on the hustings that the party on this side of the Chamber had \ vted against that measure, when. as every hon. member W>'ll knows, they did nothing of the kind. That was abeolntt' misrepre­sentat,ion on the part of the Premier, and was quite on a par with the statement made this afternoon by the hon. 'Tiember for Mundingburra and a statement made by the Premier when delivering his policy spflech in Cairns. I challenged the state­ment mado by the hon. member for Mun­dingburra when he referred to t.he state­ment attributed to Dr. J. R. Mott, a dis­tinguished visitor from America. The " Sta.ndard" of lOth April lost. in reporting his polio,· speech delivered at C'a irns, mv kPs the .Premier say-

" It. is often said that an onlooker sees most of the game. It is prDbably because of this truism that strangers

Mr. Maxwe!l.l

136 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Addl'ess in Reply.

who visit Queensland are often a great deal more impressed with what has been accomplished than some of our own citizens. We had a visit a few days ago from a distinguished American, Dr. John R. ::\![ott, who is an authorit.y on sociological questions and moral welfare. Speaking in Brisbane, Dr. John R. ~Jott said~

' Queensland had impressed him as having made unbelievable progress since first he visited Australia. It was a State that had the courage of its convictions, and ability to take the initiative and try experiments that were of profound interest and concern to the world. He had been impressed by the way t.he youth of the nation had been safeguarded, by the way justice had been done to womanhood and old age, and the general comfort of the masses of the people. The sanity and effectiveness of the economic legislation made a profound appeaL'"

On reading that statement as coming from the Premier, anyone would think that it was the actual statement of Dr. Matt. Dr. Mott said not.hing of the kind. This is what Dr. Matt said, and I quote from the •· Courier " of 20th March, 1926-

" It was a State that had the courage of its convictions and abilitv to take the initiative and try experimel1ts that were of profound interest and concern to the world. Increasingly, it \'.·as becoming the gateway State of Australia. He had been impressed with the growth in the popu­lation of Australia; with the great matm,ial development: with the uncover­ing of apparently limitle"s resources, and the linking np b;.~ n1ost n1odern means of c-on1munkation of g-reat sections of the Commonwealth. Politically, the unity achieved bv the Commonwealth itself appealed to him. He also had been imp res ·eel by the social legislation, by the way the youth of the nation had been safeguarded. justice had been done to womanhood and old ago. and by the general comfort of the great masses of the people. The sanity and effectiveness of th!' Pconomic lcg·islation in contrast wit:h the insanity anJ futility of tho legiR­lahon of another dernocracy-Sovict R.u!'sia-had made a profound impres­sion."

You f:,...,(' ho\v 1 heso g ntlcmen ·l ttcm11t to rli~tort statcmcr.t'.

Mr. IYINSTAXLEY: Y·'ore yoCJ at the tnceting?

:llr. 1\Tf\X\YELL: I n'n prepared to take the si"utenwnt of thr· Brisban0 " CourieY" and oth0r DC'\vsn.,pcr~. ..~..\.ftcr kno;ving son1e o_f the hon. gent"h:-Tnen opposite, as I dn kno·v thP~~1 and their rn0thod of n1isrepre-.,entin0' rn,ttta.rs: I an1 nnit0 11reparrcl to take th~ 't'' tc·,wnt that Dr. ::'.J ott did not refer to Que"nsln nd.

:\-I::. Vryii\RTAXLEY: I-lt~ refcrrcd to Queens­land.

M'· MAX\YRLL: The hon. member can get up on his legs lrtPr and say to what he referred. I s::y he did not refer to Queensland.

:\1 r. \V IXf'TANLEY : I was there and heard hin1.

Mr. MAXWELL: A good manv statements h:<ve been made during this debate, and

[MT. 11J:axwell.

there is one by the hon. member for Herbert which I will not allow to go unchallenged. I am of the opinion that no man would make the statement that the hon. member for Herbert attributed to a late member of the Legislative Council.

Mr. PEASE : I tell you it Is an absolute fact, and I will produce the mLn.

The SPEAKER: Order! Mr. MAXWELL: I hesitate to believe

that any member of the Le:;islative CounciL no matter to "hi eh side ho belonged, would stand np and say that it did not matter to him whether he remained all night or not, as he was paid £1,000 " year by a company to look after its interests. I challenge that statement, and say that no member of any parliamentary or local governing body wonld make such a statement. That. reflection was quite on a par with other statements made b:v the hon. member for Herbert on the floor of this House. There are times when that kind of stuff goes down, but it does not go down with a body of intelligent men, such as compose the Opposition.

Mr. BRCCE: They keep that sort of thing r:uiet as a rule. but this fellow made a "bloomer."

Mr. MOORE: The hon. member for Herbert made the statement under privilege. He \Yanld not be game to make it outside.

i• ~r. MAX\YELL: During the course of th0 election campaign wonderful speeches were n1ade in connection with the industries of Queensland, and of Australia in general, stating that the Labour party were doing all that was possible to secure assistance for the development of our secondary industries. I have a recollection of the Premier going to an election meeting on a Sunday night, and it is a great pity that our political men cannot find some night. other than Sunday night, when people are worshipping in our churches, to make political speeches. I s>ty unhesitatingly that they had their meeting dealing with preference to Queensland indus­tries. on the Sunday night in the Trades HalL and the Premier carried them away to such an extent that he even carried ::VIr. Pritchard. the secretary of the Australian Sugar Producers' Association, and other hon. gentlemf·n off their legs. They had never h0ard anything like what he was going to do for Queensland industric·s. Prior to that we had the experience of what had ha.ppencd i'l connection with the Bowen erene. which work could hav'' been done in Newcastlf', or do!·'-' in Brisbane. Then there were lo,·o­motiH·s ordered fro'n England which could have been made in Queensland.

l\Ir. CoLL1KS: X ever mind about Bowen.

~fr. MAXIVELL: I am going to mind, because, if t~1erc ]s one thing more than another that I dislike. it is political hypocrisy on the part of individuals who try to put up n. srnokc srreen and say to the people, "\Vc am the men who are going to give ~~ou a fair epin; \VC are going to see that the secondary industries of this State are developed." How is it possible for any body of men. like hon. members on the other side of the House, wh~se objective is socialisation of industry, to give a decent spin to the development of any secondary industry? What happened? The ink was scarcely dry on the ·returned writs when we found that tenders 'rere accepted from Armstrong, Whit­worth, and Co., England, for twenty-five new engines. The Government also ordered

Address in Reply. [5 AUGUST.] Addreas in Reply. 137

two hopper barges from a firm in Scotland. These are the gentlemen who are going to look after the interests of the worke·r ! There is a day coming, and some of us may live to see it, when the scales will fall from the eyes of the majority of the people and they will see members opposite in the light in which we see them. That is another example of the hypoc,isy of this Government.

Another matter that I desire to refer to is the r . .ising of fares and freights on the rail­ways. Statements were 1nadc by hon. m·mn­bers on the other side when theY were on the hustings that it was not theirc intention to increase freights and fares-that that was going to come from tlw Tori<·s if th<'y should be returned. The Yery thing happened that 11 c said. would happen-that they were not to be trusted. Practicallv before the ink was dry on the rdurned w~its thev increased the fares and freights, and therec is also a sug­gestion that the salaries of Ministers and hon. members of the Assembly are to be increased.

Mr. PEASE: It is more than a suggestion. Mr. MAX\VELL: It reminds me of an

employer discharging a number of his men because he has insufficient. work to keep them going, ·reducing the salaries of others, and at the same time raising his own screw because he cannot afford to keep the others going. I shall have something to say when that measure comes before the House, and will vote to assist my colleagues to defeat ihe proposal.

Mr. PEASE: \Vhen you wore mayor you got a salary of £1,000 a year.

Mr. MAXWELL: It is a marvellous thing in a House supposed to consist of intelligent men-I say that with all humility-that an hon. member should not know the difference between an honorarium and a salary. If a mayo-r got a certain amount of money as salary, he would have to pay income tax on it, but there was no income tax paid on that money. The Secretary for Public Instruction has occupied the same position, and he knows that what I say is correct. However, I want to deal, not with mayors' allowances or salaries, but with the misstate­ments which have been made by hon. mem­bers opposite. I want particularly now to deal with the increases in freights and fares en the rail ways.

Mr. HYNES: \Vhat about the mcreases on the tramways?

Mr. MAXWELL: I want to quote a statement made by the Secretary for Rail­ways when speaking in Committee of Supply Tide " Hansard " for 1924, page 1319- '

" After careful consideration for years, and consultatwn w1th the best brains in t?e Railway Department,. I am satisfied tnat the on!y way to show a surplus is to mcrease fares and freights. There is a simple line of policy which we could carry out to-morrow, but it is a question whether the end would justify the means. Are we going to alter the distribution of our taxation? Are we going to relieve the land monopolists, the sheep kings, or the money lords of this State, of taxation by further increasing our fares and freights on the people generally?

" That is what is involved. It is a matter of State economy and political economy. Are we going to readjust the burden of taxation? Arc we going to wipe out the deficiency in the Railway

Department by increas.ing fares and freights, or arc we gomg to ask the wealthy industries of Queensland to pay a reasonable proportion of the subsidy necessary to help to build up and develop this great young State? "

The position seems absolutely ludicrous when you find the Secretary for Railways making that speech such a short time ago, and then find other hon. members on the same side contending that it was going to be the func­tion of the Opposition to raise freights and fares if thev secured the reins of Govern­ment. \Vc f;nd that one oE the first acts they have perpetrated is to increase the railway farP9 and freights. It seems to me to be a ridiculous position for a Government to be • in. Thoro is an air of contradiction from beginning to end.

I realise the difficulties the Commissioner for Railways is in, and sympathise with hi1n. Son1e time ago there was a tender called by the Government for the supply o£ tw('nty~seven locomotive f\ngines, and tenders were received from different parh of Au ·tralia. The Clyde Engineering \Vorks were the successful tenderers. That was about. 0ighteen 111onths ago, and some hon. members may remember the questions which I asked in reference to the matter. \Vhen the Clyde Engineering Works turned down their tender, I suggested on the floor of the House, in the form of a question, that, instead of giving the work to the Clyde Engineering Works, the order for the loco­motives should be split up between Walkers Limited and Evans, Anderson, and Phelan. What happened? Only a certain number was ordered. The result of adopting my sug­gestion would have been that to-day, instead of having only a very few engines, we should have had a good number to meet the demand. Why is there all this rush to the other side of the world for these engines? Hon. members opposite were the men who were going· ,to give the work to our own workmen for the purpose of assisting indus­try here. Instead of that, they have sent the order overseas. We had a statement yes­terday from .the hon. member for Cooroora, whose speech was well worth listening to. I was pleased at the way in which hon. mem­bers opposite took his advice in connection with certain matters with which he was au fait. Even the Secretary for Agriculture seemed quite pleased to listen to the speech delivered by the hon. member, and I hope the Secretary for Railwavs will also take notice of what he said. What did the hon. member say with regard to the state of the track on the North Coast line? He said he had seen sleeners taken out of the line which he could ha v8 broken across his knee. There is sornething verv wrong "\vhen v.re find an hon. member like· the hon. member for Coo­roora-who does not make wild statements, but only statements on matters with which he is thoroughly conversant and statements which he is prepared to prove-getting up in his place here and saying things like that. Evidently there is something radically wrong in the department, which needs a thorough investigation.

Mr. FERRICKS: Why didn't you say some­thing about the locomotives to the man I intro-duced you to in the ~rain?

Mr. MAXWELL: I did not catch the hon. member's remark. Yesterday a question was asked about a delav of five hours to a train oubide Rockhampton, and the Secretary for

111r. Maxwell.l

138 [ASSE:\fBL Y.] Address in Reply.

Railways, in reply, said that it must be borue in mind that, owing to the drought and congestion of traffic, it was difficult to run trains to time. But this is an occurrence which has taken place frequently. \Vhat is the ca_usc of these things Y The only thing to which I can put them down is bad coal and in that connection my opinion is backed up b,v something which appeared not long ago m an lS'•Ue of ." The Headlight," the organ of the Locon1ohve Engiuc1nen)s Union, as an extract from the rc1>0rt of the Chiwhilla branch-

'· The coal supplied out this way lately has become of very poor quality. It is heavy of deposit and light weight in heating properties, and it doesn't take a ·er0· big amount to fill up the firebox,

especially a P.B. class of engine.

" \Vhy the department buys this kind of blue _metal is hard to say, unless the look of 1t takes thmr fancy, or they have plenty of money to give away. After railage out he·re and cost of same they may as well get better coal and help to eliminate some of the unnecessary coal consumption.''

'l'ho Bundaberg secretary also had an uukind word to say about the coal supplied-

" Baralaba coal has received consider· able attention during the month, and !his _curse will figure in this forthcoming mquuy also. Much has been written to the department re this coal (we call it that, just for <:onvenience sake), and we hope some s<;I"Jous consideration will be g!ven to its abolition from engine tenders. l-lours upon hours are lost on single trips and at a time when the department ar~ hard pmhed for engines. Dara!aba speaks for itself, and if the reports placed on the bottom of drivers' sheets are not sufficient to condemn Daralaba for all tim0, then show me what is. If whispers arc correct, then we hand our palm to the 1\tlarybor?ugh inspectors, who, we hear, have raised their voice against this coal.''

It is evident tha,t there 1s something very very wrong indeed when you find statements like that made by officer;.

Mr. COLLI>iS: You don't say anything abom the Bowen coal?

Mr. MAXWELL: I am only dealing with matters I understand. It seems to me that we have, perhaps, arrived at the crossroads tn regard t?. the. causes _of these delays to trams. I tmnk 1t was m the 1924 session that I drew attention to the statements of locomotive men about 'upplies of coal, and pomted out that the coal supplied to tho engines v, as causing a great amount of trouble and delay and also irritation to the men who had to run the engine,. I presume that the Secretary for Railways knows that a protest was made in connection with the matter.

If there is one thing that I like about a Goverm~ent. irrespc'ctive of their politics, it IS conststency. The present Government have not played the game in connection with

certain matters. I refer to them [4.30 p.m.] ;_etiring men on reaching the age

. nmtt. I am one who stronglv objects to a man boing~to use a term quoted by the hon. I_Ilembei: for Maryborough~ thrown on t_he mdustnal. scrap-heap because he !1as attamecl a certam age. Practically he IS told to get out and die-he is not

[Mr. ~tlaxwd!.

wanted any more. Such men may be men who hay.e built up some of the finest indus­~ries in the Sttl"te, and have done good work m GO\·ernmc'nt departments. 'I'his article appellred in the "'DailY Standard" of 12th June, 1926~ "

"AGE LIMIT REACHED.

'' The Government, upon the recom­mendation of the Public Servi< 0 CoLl­mi, .. ,ioncr. has directed that James Crellin, head teacher, State sdwol. Greenslorce, and J oseph 'IV odd, head teacher, Stale school, :\'ewmarket be retired fro1n the public service as from 31st January. 1927. both having reached the ap;c limit.''

,·Uj)j)0:-3l' the r,~gulntioas arc bC'1ng carrieJ out. I mod my influence with the late Horne ~ecretary, the Hon. J. Huxhani to ~e-cnl'C a pc:··ition for ex-Senator 'rurlcy. ' 'ro show the inconsietency of the Government, let me quote from an article which appeared in ·:he "' Brisbane Courier of 12th July, 1926--

"Ex-SE~ATOR's 1'\Ew JoB. "' An appointment which wil] cause

int"rest in political circles was made ycsterda v when ex-Senator li Turlev ~onnneu~~d his duti-es as storcn1~n at th~ J\·1arine Departnwnt. l\ir. Tudo-v, who is about sixt,y-sevcn vears of aie, was 'lected to the Legislative As,embly of Qu('enslBnd in the Labour interests in ::\Ia.v, 1883. whi<:h seat he held until he was cldcatcd -ll 1\:i:arch, 1899. Ho was fLgain f'lC'Ch'd at a b~" -election, ho\vever, oa 22.'d July. 1899. and cepresented that constituency unjl the elections in March, 1802, when he stood for Carnarvon and v.-as d[feated. From 1st DPccmber to 7th Doc0mber he occupied the position of Home Secretary. In the general elec­t ions of 1.903, 1910, and 1914 he was c<lcctcd as a Senator for Queensland in the Com"·omy<:'alth Parliament, and acted as temporary Chairman of Committees in 1909. From July. 1910, to Jul;j, 1913, he was President of the Senate. At the general election in 1917 he was defeated. and has not since regained his seat.''

Because these men have reached the ag0 limit they have to get out to make room for others; but how does it come that some­ono else sixty-seven years of age receives an apt,ointment? I would like to see room made not onlv for men of the calibre of James Crel!in, ·but other men of equal ability.

The PRETh!IER ; You would like to see an ex-Senator and ex-President of the Senate on i·he bread line?

~lr. 1L\X\YELL: :\o. Before the Premier came into the Chamber I statc'd that I had used mv inOuencc with the iate Secretarv for Publi•, "rmtruction, th-, Hon .• J. Huxham, to secure this man a position. It is unfair that, \\·hen such n1en are retired because th0y have reached tho age limit, another man over that 'go should be given employment. I am not fmclinq fault with that, but I am finding fault with men being thrown 0 ut because they had reached sixty-five years of age, whAn aEothcr man of sjxt:'{-seven years of age is g-iven a position. It shows inconsistency on the part of the Government.

The PRDIIER ; It shows meanness on your part. Yon want him on the dole.

Mr. )JAXWELL: I do not, The hon. gentlc>man knows me better than that. I do not want to see anybody on the industrial

Address in Reply, [5 AuGUST.] Address in Reply. 139

scrap-heap, lJnt I want a de('ent deal given to all, and I am going- to tell hon. members oppo3ite that ·,omc rnen associatinrr wi~h tho GoYcrnmcnt could not g-ive a d;'ccnt d,,al, and do not want to give a decent deal. There ,;.re men walking the streets of Bris­bane to-clay accepting doles and unable to get work Thev want work for the sake of their wiYrs and 'families, and cannot get it, and then• arc men on this side of the House who cannot sectn·t..' \VOl'k for ihc'rnsC'lves or thciT boy"·

The PREoiTER: Is that an argument wh0 c':-~:~nator Turlcy should not get \Vork?

_ Hr. :.L\X\VELL: I am not saying that it 1s au argnn1ent why other n1on should not be gi\ C:!l P1np!oynu:l1t.

The SPEAKER: Order! Order! The hen. rn(nnlK'l' has exhausted the tinw allowed him unda the Standing Orders.

. :\cr. iYEIR D1ur!fl;oroug!t): It i, V•el"Y

tmtun:lte that. it should be my lot to follow the ho:L nw~nbr~r for 'Toov•:ontr, seeing· that he ha< 1 dcrrnd to the question of the con­tract £or locon1otivc" ...

I \' :sh lirst to congratulate vou Mr. ~peak: _·,_,on rngaini_ng ;r~our l1igh office,' show~ ~ng a ttli;utc of thi:-, IIouse to your services rn lbco 1"''t. Let me ('XpH •'' the lL.pe that your scr\·ict~ in th:!t office in the futuro 1vill n .. a8 plc>csing to you [l,j it has been to hon. member (Hc,n. hear!)

>·.ould also like to congratulate the mover a rod _st c•;n~l0r ~f the _ \ddress in Reply, not so nwu1 on the l act that they were the mover and s< Colidcr. but on the fiwt that. as young men i!1 this House .. they show an intelligence brouC(!lt m by tlus srde of the House in contrast to the lack of intelligcnr·· brou~ht in by the other side.

0

Mr. K~LSO: That is an ex parte statement.

}fr. \~\'"EIR: It is an intelligent statement. Ld ue g. t on to things that matter. Perh·'l"· at the ouh0t. c.eeing that I am fol1o\r]ng tl!? hon. _rnernLcr for Toowon~, \vho has ra110d aga1ust the Government rn ha...-ing- placed a contract for locornotives out­sidn AHstralia. I should r('fcr to that mattm' and enlightrm ihc Houfo on what actuallv happLnf'd. I can BllC:-ik as a man knovving somcthin;. of this particular contract. \'Valkors Limited were competitors for the contract fer bu]lding,· tho~o Jou01notiYes, and much vs thr· Cabinet and ::\'Iinister would havp lik"d to give the work to Walkers Limited: we fuccl that aftm· all the Years that iValkers Lin1ih d ha ye lJcen doi1~g \York for this GoYernment, they were not. able to fulfil this p trticula r untrue!. if it was given to th:m, i:1 h>.:; 1h8n seventy vYceks. The con-

\Yn~ ar:cording}_v. placc-J Oll the other f)[ t_Jt' V,<dCl' to b2 C,)mplctd:l in thirtv­

)1in, ··'',eeL._ It is a!1 accepted fact that 'a iOcomTDv~.. Js a vcr_-~ va1nablc as':::ot to be on ~he ro::tds cf Qucu sland, particularlv under th0 p::t c,cnt ( J',ditions, thirtY-OLe" weeks lL fore it eo" ld be phw d on the ·roads if built lc-cally. Th0rcforP. frorn a rcvenue­produuin~J; point of Yie~\ the relative tirne to f' '11pl0t0 the contract was a bio- thing to bP tnken into cnnsidc,·ation. :=>

7\l:r. KELSO: Thev should have been ordered oight _ d1 Dli)nths a'go.

":' fl \~'"ETH · As th~ PronliP.r wi-.ely said> if it had not been for a certain accident thP hon. rnr mber woulrl cot have been in' this Honse. I ·sould lik., to inform the House that, haYi'lg seen this matter from the point Q[ v<r·;v of Walkers Limited, and having Been tno prospcctrvc shQrtage of work in

vValkers LimitE'd, and the accompanying pro,]Jective shortage of >vork for the workers, \Yalkc-rs Limited should have mad, an Pndeavour to increase the output of their works by doing any class of work that the GoYcnnnent were prepr-rcd to offor-and I think in this comwction t.hev owed a dutv in that respect, not only to Maryborough. but to th<' Shto. It should not be the pri,,ilegP of iValkors Limited to make a S)li'Cia!ity in building locomotives only. Jt is r.ot for them to tcil this Uovcrnment that they are merely specialising in building loco­motin'• and a re prepared to allow the rest of the \York to go out of the country. lf that is the spirit of VValkcrs Lin1itcd, I arn going to sa.v th J t it >vill not get them anywhere. I was a member of a deputation from the Industrial Council, Maryborough, which waited on \Yalkt'rs Lin1ited early this year. <nd we put it to them that the;.' chould 1 Pnder for the hopper barges for vvhich the GoYcrnnu•nt Y1 •re culling tenders. One would drink that Mcs~rs. Walkers Limited. ·hs.v]ng· built tho;;;r overseas liners for the C'omn;'on >'. ualth Govcrnnwnt, and ha\·ing ull the a.ppli~nces and appurtenances necE.'Qsary for their construction left on the job, would naturally be read:' enough and big enough to step into the field and tender for thoso hopper barge's. However, they told the depu­tation that thev would JCot tender for the work because {'t \Vas not \vork they were c:.tering for-that they were catering 'for the constmction of locomotives. That policy i'i a Ycr_v dangerou;;; one for '\Valkers Lin1ited lo adopt. for under it I can see a number of men-boilermakers and others-not securing full tin1e in constrnctin~ locm:notives. \vhilst they cruld be fully occupied on different t:~Il£. s of vvork if it · \'Cre undertaken. In f-pite of ail that. and in spite of our appeal to \Val1;;:0r3 Li1nitcd to ;:,tcp in and take this work. they dl•finitely turned the thing down and would not attc'mpt it. The Pre­mier himself took certain steps to try to induce those people to tender.

T.Ir. KCL'•O: Your party would like to see \Valker Limited wiped out.

Mr. WEIR: Listen to that! I want t.o say now that the criticism in the count1-y and in 1\Iaryborough by the friends of the Opposition~pcoplc who arc not working in Vl'alkcrs Limited sa.v just the reverse­that we not only do not want to wipe out vValkers Limited but that we have spoon­fed thhn for eleven vears. What a con­trast ! Let me repeat for the benefit of hon. members in this House the beliefs of llw diredors of \Valkers Limited. The leader of the Opposition was at one time a ,harelJoldcr of vValkers Limited. I led a deputat-ion from that company. I warned \',~alkers what mig-bt happen" if they would EOt t?.k•' certain \VOrk, ana in the Course (Jf n1y warning I said, " IIave you any regard for the fact that there might be a change of Government? You n , business pcoplo should pay due respect to the possi­bility of a change of Government, alt-hough, I. for one, do not expect such a change." The responsible head oi ·walkers said. "You take my word for it, we do not want a change of Government." Those arc the people this Government are accused of rh 'iring to close up. Another financial head of Walkers Limited told Mr. Theo­dore in my prPoence that he not only did not want a change of GoYernment, but he hoped that this Government would be in power for many years, and he said that

Mr, Weir.]

140 Address in .Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Rrply.

Walkers Limited could not have carried on had it not been for a Labour Government. I set that. against the carping criticism of the hon. member for :.<undah, and leaye it to the intelligence of hon. members to draw their o·xn deductions.

The hon. member for Toowong, by infer­ence at least, sugge'ted that, had the Go­vernment adopted his suggestion when the Clyde Engineering Company put in that bogus tender-and I say it was a bogus tender-and g·ivcn that work to Walkers Limited, and other people, all would have been well. The hon. member has not enough knowledge of the case to know that ten engiiWS were allotted to "Walkers Limited, ten to Evans, Anderson and Phelan, and ··.>Yen to the Ipswich Workehops when the contract was turned down. The hon. mem­ber gives half of the case and, either t-hrough ignorance or deliberately, he has not given the other half. The hon. member did not tell the listeners in this House that immediately the Clyde Engineering Company dropped their tender the Govern­ment of this State waited for t:hc oppor­tunity and gave the work to the Queensland people.

]\fr. lVIAXWELL: I am giving the informa­tion supplied by the Secretary for Railways.

Mr. ·wEIR: You are misrepresenting the information. In this case it was matt-er of weeks in the tender price that made the difference. There was a contract delivery of thirty-nine weeks in one case as against seventy weeks in the other case. I am one of those who could well blame people for not giving work to vV alkers Limited, and it would be very popular for me to do that. Had \Valkers Limited equipped themselves properly, they would not have been in the position of having to keep the Government waiting seventy weeks for the locomotives. It is up to \Valkers Limited, and I warn them here and now to expend some capital and not show such big dividends; to put that money into developing their industry, and not confine themselves to a one-horse show to make big dividends. I say that in all seriousness.

I can see here a young and active firm-I am not going to advertise them, because it is not to my interests to advertise them­and I view with concern the developments of that firm within a few miles of Brisbane. [ can see. that within a few years it will be a very serwus competitor of Walkers Limited. Before that can happen why do not Walkers LimiLd wnke up to the occasion and ste'p into the field and do the big thing? I hope they will d? so for the sake of Maryborough. They ?:Ye It to Maryborough, and they owe tt to tms State. The Government have been particularly decent to vValkors Limited and they have justified that un to a certain ~oint. They have delivered the· goods as far as the work is concerned. They haYe the men who can do the work, but they can get more men and it is up to them to do more work. I~ this very connection there was a mass meeting called at Walkers Limited, and those in charge of the m a, s meeting asked me to be good enough to go along. I went along to tho maos meeting and someone prompted those men to moYe a resolution oondemnino the Government for sending work out of th: State. and of the 500 men there they could not get a seconder to the resolution. That shows the confidence the rank and file of Walkers Limited have in the honesty of this Government. I am one of those Australians

[llir. Weir.

who regret very much that any work should go out of this country. I say seriously that it is a pity that any work should go out of t.ltis country, but the onus does not rest only on the Government. The onus rests on the manufacturers of this State to do the work­so to equip themselves that they will be able to do all the work offering here, and not play with the thing and then throw the onus on someone else.

"While we arc dealing with the question of 1vorkshops and Walkers Limited, it may be int·eresting to hon. members on the other side of the House who are interested to turn their attenti0n to another phase of tho ques­tion ; that is the nocecsitv throughout the whole of the State for deYdoping the railway workshops themselves. I can see the da·y not far distant when the demand for new and repaired _rolling-stock will make it absolutely incn1 '1 bent on any gover:n~nent to develop eyery workshop they have got to the greatest extent. I can see TownsYille g-rowing very materially. I c~n see Rcckhampton growing very n1aterially. and also Cairn~, and I am hoping to s<>e the erection of worksho-ps in :\Ia1·yborougli for big work at least in the very near future. It is absolutely essential, and must co1nc in time.

The other day. I should have said earlier. during the colnse of the ·remarks o£ the leader of the Oppr sition, I was a good deal surprised to find that he endeavoured to make a Ycry finP case at the E'\ pense of the new members of this party. That is quite unusual. I heard the leader of the Opposition take the membPr for Chillagoo to task. Not that the member for Chillagoe minded. bc~ause men trained in the industrial move­ment are quite capable of coming here, and within the cource of forty-eight hours holding their own against attacks from the leader of the Opposition. They get used to that sort of thing outside, and they are well enough trained to take their own part here. Rut it is not usual in the House, and it shows the hopelessness of his case when the leader of the Opposition has to get down to the babv of this nartv. That is about what it means. I-Im,:ever". the member for Chillagoo was quite equal to the occasion. Hon. members opposite dealt with the rail­ways of this State and compared them with the railways in other States, and, dealing with that aspect of it, the leador of the Olpposition took up a stand that cannot be justified. He took the latest issue of the Commonwealth "Year Book" and quoted certain railway freights and fareq and con­b·asted them with the railway fares and freights charged in this State.

Mr. MooRE: I took .the average. Mr. WEIR: That is what I wanted him

to sa,y-he took the avenge. He took the a::;grcfate mileage and divided that into the aggregate revenue, and then he dished it up ·,nd said, "Look at what I have found." \Yhat a wonderful brain wave ! Let us look at that ·return and see what it means.

Mr. MooRE: You arc not capable of look­ing at it fron1 an inteJligent point of view.

Mr. WEIR: That is rather hard on me, to ask me to leave tho matter of figures to a man who makes cheese.

The SPEAKER: Order ! This discussion is quite irregular.

Mr. WEIR: I submit that I am justified in saying that. if a man tells me that I am not capable of understanding the figures.

Address 'n Reply. [5 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 141

The SPEAKER: Order ! My remarks apply to the leader of the Opposition, who also is out of order.

Mr. WEIR: I do not mind it a bit if he does not mind.

Mr. MoORE: I take it as a compliment. Mr. KERR interjected. Mr. WEIR: I might point out tnat the

hon. member for Enoggera has inherited a good voice, but his dwarfed intelligence has stopped him from using it. I wanted to deal with the method in which the leader of the Opposition dishes up his figures. Last year I took him to task for doing the same thing with regard to industrial matters in this State.

Mr. MbORE : Yes, and I replied to you.

Mr. WEIR: I want to deal with the method which the hon. member adopted on this occasion. The method he adopted was taking the aggregate mileage in this State and dividing it by the aggregate revenue. 'l'o anyone outside the Railway Department that does not mean much. In this State we run 11,750,000 miles in the year. We want to understand that train mileage in this State is different altogether from train mileage in any other State, because in this State we have a great length of single line of railway. I am comparing the three States which mattcr-Queensland, New South ·wales, and Victoria. vVe have single track railways in this State with the obvious result that we work a terrible lot of unproductive mileage. We work trains from Brisbane to North Queensland and back all the time, and with the exception of starving stock we bring back light loads, which return no revenue. We work the engines on these trains all the time from Brisbane to Maryborough and Maryborough to Brisbane, and we have to work them home, an unproductive mileage. Fancy a man adding all that mileage together, and saying "Look at what I have found." Let us see what the revenue shows. Queensland, with a population of 750,000, runs a mileage of 11,750,000 miles; Victoria, with a population of 1,500,000, runs not twice as much ·but only half as much again in mile­age-that is, 17,000,000 train miles-which me:cns that to serve the whole of Victoria with its 1,500,000 people they have only run 50 per cent. more train miles than we run to S•'rve the people in this State. In New South Wales, with a population of 2,500.000, they run 23,000,000 train miles, or a little more than twice the mileage that we do. That shows the absurdity of comparing train mile­-ago divided into aggregate revenue, because with a little handful of 750,000 people in Queensland we are compelled to run 11,750,000 train miles every year. What is the revenue? If you take the revenue for what it is worth, the best way to find out what we are earning is by turning to the f,gures in the Commonwealth Year Book, page 292. The gross earnings is a fair basis to take, because if you took the net earnings critics might say, "You have \vasted money in expenditure, and therefore your compari­son is not fair." I am not going to do that, but I am taking the gross earnings to see what it is possible to earn, and how we can mana,:e our bminess with the limited amount of money at OUl' command. Queens] and earns 117.71d.; Victoria, 168.05d.; and ='Jew South vVales, 158.09d. for every train mile run. Victoria handles roughly '50 per cent. more revenue per train mile than we handle. Now, is there any argument against that'!

Why, in the face of those figures, should members opposite attempt to mislead the House? Those figures represent the money we are actuaily handling over the counter, as it were. Now, let me go further, and show the tonnage of goods actually carried per vehicle, taking the largest vehicle, in order to give us the actual carrying capacity of the rolling-stock of the various States-

Queensland Victoria New South Wales

Tons. 21 30 45

That means that the best we could do with a Yehicle on the road here was to carry 21 tons of goods, whereas in New South Wales they carry double the quantity in their heaYiest vehicle, and in Victoria half as much again as we could carry. What chance have we of competing with th,m under those cir· cumcltances? I am prepared to say that l do not think the leader of the Opposition knew anv better. I do not think he deliberately set out to mislead the House. 1 think he found the figures. and he gave them to the House, but the £act shows how hope· less hon. members opposite are in stating a case against this Government.

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE : Some· body handed them to him.

Mr. WEIR: I believe there is something in that. Somebody handed the figures to him and he used them. :'\ ow let us go further still. Let us look at the tonnage actually carried per train mile, as showing the earn· ing· capacity of the railways-

Queensland Victoria ~ ew South Wales

Tons. 717

1,902 2,874

Those figures represent the tonnage per average mile of line \vorked, and they show that eYery train mile run in Queensland is worth only about one quarter of the train mile run in :'\ew South Wales. Is there anv better test than that? Further on we find the best argument of the lot, and I want to commend this to the members of the Opposi· tion, particularly because they are supposed to represent the man on the land, although members on this side really represent him. This table, to be found on page .3{)2 of the '' Year Book," giYes a comparison of the quantities of commodities carried by the railways in the different States. Take hay, straw, and chaff-commodities which are cat'ried essentiallv in the interests of the man on the land. Th.is table is very interesting-

Tons. Queensland 401,593 Victoria 362,622 :'\ow South Wales 522,478

That shows that Queensland is carrying more of those commodities than a State like Vie· toria. :'\ ow turn to page 306 and look at the agricultural produce rates in the variom States, which will show that in Queensland. notwithstanding our huge distances, our rates are less than in either of the two other States. Let us take the rates for 5DO miles-

Rate per ton in truck loads.

s. d. nueensland 15 6 ·victoria 18 7 ~ew South \Vaks 19 f)

:\fcmbcrs of the Opposition nrc supposed to lw rt"prrsonting tho farmers. although my

Mr. Weir.]

H2 Address in Reply. lASSEMBLY.j Add;us in Reply.

argtuncnt is that we on this side represent th" fanners, and they arc continually com­plaining; al:out thee freight rates on th0 rail­wavs; ·but those figures show that for long distance~, as for other distances, the rate in this State favours the farmer.

:\Ir. iVIORGAN : Arc you quoting the rates to port? 'There are two freight rates in Qneonsland-to port and away from port. )~on arc n1isroprosonting the position.

[5 p.m.] ::\Ir. \VEIR: I am not misrepresenting.

an1 talking of tons. The " return" and not 1 rnakcs the comparison.

~dr. MonGAN: You are misrepresenting the position, and you know it.

Mr. ·wEIR: I am trying to arrive at a fair basis. If tho hon. member for Murilh can help me, I shall be very pleased. I am do a ling in toiis. You can tie it up in sacks ,md handkerchiefs but they arn tons just the same.

::\1r. MORCAN: It makes no difference \Yhcthcr you arc dealjng in tons or not.

:\Ir. WEIR: Not to the hon. gentleman because he does not understand. I do not wish to be unfair to the hon. gentleman. I am trying to give the House a fair state­ment o£ [acts, and up to the prc->ent time l consider that I am winning. I am taking 500 miles and giving the rate per ton. It does not matter how it is carried. I am vi,·ing the aggregate tons of produce carried. These are the rates for 400 miles-

K ew South \V ales Victoria Qcwcnsland

Per ton. s. d. 17 9 16 10 14 6

Let me skip from 400 miles to 50 miles-I do not wish to wearv the House. 'These are the figures for 50 miles-

Kew South \Vales Victoria Queensland

Per ton. s. d. 7 3 6 4 5 8

::>;"ow vou see the position of the poor unfor­tunate farmer misrepresented by the Opposi­tion. Everybody knows that that is a class of goods that does not pay on the railways. In connection with the carrying capacity for our starving stock 1t means that we are much more gcneroue, as the figures show, and in competition we are more than holding our 0\Yll.

Kow let me take the position in connec­tion with nassenger traffic. You do not hear the kador of the Opposition saying anything with reference to that. 'There is no. State in the Gommonwf'alth that carries rountrv women to the seaside as cheaply as Queensland. 'The leader of the Opposition mmt kno'' that, but he does not make any mention of it. Hon. members oppo•o•ite, whell dealing· with this matter, present only one side of the picture. I have given figures which I could develop if necessary. I hope the intelli;;entsia of the Opposition-! have not fou'1d it yet, although I am still looking -·,,,ill give the opposite side of the picture and continue it to 1ts logical conclusion, and show that there is nothing in what they say "bont the vcnerositv of their friends in Victoria, and that the position as set fort•h bv this side of the House cannot be ignored.

[Mr. Weir.

Let me now dcal with the question of political intcrfPrcnrn with rail·, 'lYS. \Ve have heard a great dPal about political interfercneQ in the control {)f our railwa vs fro1n va6ous speakers to-day. To my ~ind the removal of po!it.ical influence from the railways "ould be a verv serious blunder. \Vhen \YC are dtvclopirlg a country oue wants to hold strongly to political interference in i he Railway D0partment. I will show why. Take \Y a lkers Limited ! \Vhat would happen if the Co·mnis·ioncr hnd the right to deter­minP b-. t .rcen payiHg £13.000 for locomotives to Walkers Limited, and £12,000 for loco­nlotiYcs lan(~cd here frorn overseas. Do you think trnt o.uv con1n1ercial n1an in charge of the raih., "-"' co•dd possibly justify giving \1-alkcrs Limited £LOCO r.1orc: ·would anv­Lod.v with any o-cmblance of intelligence expect a comrnerc1a1 head in the Raihva:; JJepartnF n.t to ~ubsidise or build up an ir:clustn like Wa!kc•rs Limited? lt IS

lE:thiHl~able. Lc>t us look at the other side. 'l'o-day there

art~ hon. n1c1nbers in thi'S IIouse who are preparing a deputation to wait on the Sccre­tftl'y for Hailv. H'' in connection with the emitinuation of a line from Dalbv to some poi:~t on tht:' K.ine;aroy lin£'. AssUming that 1 nprc> is an:· jnstillcation for that line, what is the rf'ason for waiting on the Minister? Ilo the,- not see that one of the best chances ihr~y h~vn of obtaining this lino is to con­vince the political hcod that the line is jucti[;cd ':

:\fr. MOORE: Do you know what the depu­tation is for? You are n1aking a mistake~ You do not know anything about it.

Mr. WEIR: I am not talking through my hat. When I was in the corridor half an hour ago, an hon. member from the other side of the House asked me if I would join a deputation having that for its purpose. I told him that I would not join any deputa­tion until I knew the railway that is being asked for. I am not going to advocate a railway line, and at the same time know nothing about it. If in considering the matter in the next few davs I can see the virtues of the case, I will go with the depu­tation and help it, but I W<lnt to be con­vinced -beforehand of the virtues of the case. I have not seen the virtues of the case, and I want to be as fair to the people of Tarong as to the people of Kingaroy, but I will not advocate a railway line \vhich I cannot after­wards justify.

I wish now to deal with an old pet theme of mine in regard to the workers in this State, and the demand on the industry of the State for better conditions. I have always from y<'ar to year contended that we in this State could put up a very fine case to combat the old cry of the Opposition of slowing down on the job. We hear of people carp­ing and crying that the worker is going slow, and from year to year jt has been "!Y p 1easure to show that is a he. I want agam to quote figures in order to bring my figures up to elate. I have before me the latest i:gures of the Federal Statistician in regard to th0 valu< of the added cost, which means the snecial effort of the men, and, in spite of other considerations, I do not know of anything that shows this better than the value arldPd to the raw material by the effort of the men. That is the crux of the situation. We find, at page 836 of the report of the Federal Statistician, that the added cost of value added in process of manufacture

Addres8 in Reply. [5 Auous·.r.] Adjournment. 143

per employee for 1923-1924, the latest figurcc. were~

£ Queensland 357 Victoria .. . .. . 313 Now South Walr·' 349

SG that the beautiful country of Victoria, which the hon. member for Muril!a left, I presume for the good of its health-(Oppo­sition bughter)-is a long way behind Queensland.

Mr. MORGAN: Victoria is only one-sixth the size of Queensland.

Mr. WEIR: That is so, but the fact that Victoria is a more compact and older State should result in a bettnr output per head of population. Those figures make a pretty good case for us. I desire to complete those figures from year to year to show that our men can claim reasonably that they are doing a feoir thing by industry in this State. Against that output we find hon. members crying that capihl is leaving the State. That is all bunkum. I can imagine the shareholders of ·walkers Limited, with a loco­motive on their backs. taking their share of the capital out of the State. Thev do not do that. If they want to sell their 'shares they do so by putting them on to someone who has confidence enough to bny. If there is nnything in that statement, how do those persons justih· these figures in the column of pcrreutrrge of costs, etc., on the total value, showing the profits after paying for raw materials, fuel and light, and salaries and 'v...tgcs-

Queensland Victoria New South Wales

Per cent. 21.31 18.81 17.69

It will be seen that the profits shown are a little more than 21 per cent. in this State, as against Victoria's (the next highest) 18.81 per cent. for their share.

I do sincerely hope that while we have been discussing these matters this afternoon the flight of Cobham from England to Aus­tralia has been successful. We shall probably find to-morrow morning that this man from overseas has made a success of his job. We have been engaged in this discussion, and at the same time have forgotten what it means to connect this countrv with the rest of the world by process of flight through the air. We have the very fine example set by the Smith brothers, and I trust that in the morn­ing, when we wake up, w<' shall read with a great deal of pleasure that Alan Cobham has made good.

Let me deal, in conclusion, with the all­important topic of the tramways. I read of the matter with a good deal of interest, but I did not read as a critic because I have not b<·en in Brisbane the whole of the time to become conversrmt with the two sides of the argument regarding the method of costing in the tramway service. While I can recognise the right of a civil servant to go to any body in this State and express his own opinion, I want to know why these loyal civil servants could not prompt us at the right time. At the time of the taking over of the trams I said they could not pay if the Government paid more than £800,000, and that was the value I then set on them. I was merely giving my own opinion, as no value of assets had been put down on paper. After that the greatest authorities on the other side of the worlcl established a figure of

£1,063.000 as thP asset value, and, instead of pavinf( £1,063.000, in their wisdom they pair! £1.500,000.

Mr. KERR: Who paid that? Mr. WEIR: The authorities. l'vlr. KERR: What authorities? Mr. WEIR: The men we sent over to the

other side of the world to adjust the case, !Vlr. KERR : Who had the final say?

l\lr. \VEIR: The hon. member, be,•:ause he wi.ll have to pay for it. T argtte ,,ow that, If Mr. Chuter had any 'Liporior intelli­,;ence that allowed him to dednco the fact that this bu·iness could not pay 'c:hero was his loyaltv when the h,Isiness was uncle!' discuscion? If I were working in an industry for this G<wernment and the·.· wcr9 about to take up something of whit'h- I had special knowl0dgo, I would deem it· my dnty to pre.ser,t my case to the Government and help them so that i:l1<3Y would not pa,· rr m·e than the industry was wor,;h.

Mr. KERR: That is not a fair attack on a ci\'il servant. Ho did not discuss that point.

Mr. ·wEIR: I have mv rights on the floor of this House. and I ;hall exercise them. I am not disputing the right of anybody to make anything public if he chinks he is giving. enlightenment, but I di<pute the right of a civil servant to know somf'thing advan­tageous to the Government and keep it to himself when that information would be of assistance.

Mr. FOLEY: I think he did give that infor­mation.

Mr. WEIR: I do not think so. The trouble with our tramways is that we paid too much in the first place, and therein lies the danger of listening to expert,, and, after all, experh appeared to offer the only advice we could got, though in the adjustment it was pr,,ved conclusively that they were nearly calf-a­million pounds out.

HoN. \Y. H. BARNES (Wynnum): I beg to move the adjournment of the debate.

Question put and passed. The resumption of the debate was ma do

an Order of tne Day for Tuesday, 17th instant.

SPECIAL ADJOURNMENT. The PREMIER (Hon. W. McCormack,

Cairns): I bei< to move-" That ~the House, at its rising, do

adjourn until Tuesclay, 17th August." Question put ancl passed.

ADJOURNMENT. The PREMIER (Hon. W. McCormack,

C'uir,,s): I beg to move-,, That this House do now adjourn."

In !he past wo frequently adjourned only for 011'' da.. for the Exhibition, but I think it advisable to adjourn over Exhibition week. as it will give hon. members on both sides of the Hf:!use an opportunity of meeting rcprosentatiYe bodies from their con­stituencies and also individual electors and it will also enable them to see drpul~tions in connection with matters of intcrc t to their electm:atf",, Con,equently, I hope it will weet the Wishes of hon. members t' adjourn until Tucsdav, 17th instant.

HONOUR.IBLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear ! Quf stion put and passed. The House adjourned at 5.16 p.m.

Hon. W. McCormack.]