[Context: Mom texts me that she wants to catch up at Red Robin since we haven't spoken in a long time, due to her bleeding me dry over failed real estate ventures. I have a pit in my stomach, expecting this to be a ruse to butter me up for a favor or a few thousand dollars, but I go anyway. Guess what. She wants me to cosign on a new $262,000 house because they're being evicted after YEARS of non-payment on the house they were living in. I'm upset by the misdirection, and the night ends with a heated conversation of her expecting my help, and me calling her a unreliable liar. Dave is her new husband, and Terry is her most recent ex.]

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 10:34:11

Michael, I know how you feel about me-you've made that crystal clear. But again I'm asking you to look at this:

1: we will set up an acct with you, Justin, and David only.

2: David's paychecks will be automatically deposited into that acct every week.

3: The home loan payment will be set up on auto pay from that acct

4: My commission from selling the house to you and Justin is about $4000. I will start the new acct with that commission check-the proceeds from buying the house

5: we will monitor David's credit score monthly. As soon as it comes back over 600, we will take you off the note. Justin has agreed to stay on the note for 12 months.

This addresses your concern about non-payment and you being stabbed in the back. I am no part of the money in and out of that account. We can live on my commissions and child support. Again, we will take you OFF THE LOAN AS SOON AS DAVID IS ABOVE 600 again.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 10:35:42

Katie has told us how to get his credit score back above 600 in 6 months. So we are going to do that right away. [Dave's Ex stopped making payments on a car in his name.]

Mike said at 2013-09-12 11:26:20

First I'd like to apologize for my tone last night, as I was spouting off a lot of things I wasn't allowed to say when I was younger and afraid of you.

You are taking on a 30-year obligation based on a brief period of only recently being able to afford as much house as you're buying. I feel that you will quit real estate within the next year or two due to being overcome by the fibromyalgia.

I feel that the burden will then shift to Dave to do both his current job and Real Estate on the side.

I feel that you will continue to have no savings, no matter how much money you're making because you'll spend it on settling into the house, dealing with sudden problems, and making grand purchases in a desire to show the kids that everything's going to be okay.

I feel that you were wrong that Laurissa could afford her new car, as it has stopped her from having enough money to move out and be independent, despite working long hours consistently.

I feel that you told me something that wasn't true when you said that you'd help Laurissa make the payments if she couldn't. You can't afford that now, and with her pot use, I don't think you would, either, and that's fine. The point isn't her drug use, it's that you an optimistic assumption that turned out to be untrue.

I feel that you don't naturally account for things going wrong, even after a lifetime of things going wrong.

I feel you're very optimistic. I believe you really love Dave. I feel that you really believe that you can afford it.

But the truth is that you've only recently been able to even contemplate affording a $262,000 house. That's based off a very short run of success, and you're now wanting to assume that success will continue for years to come.

I can't in good conscience co-sign on this house knowing that you'll likely quit real estate soon. It won't be your fault, either, just the fibromyalgia getting worse, or perhaps it's some other medical issue.

I don't want to see this ruin things with you and Dave. I don't want to see this ruin things between Dave and his son. I still have no reason to believe that this very short run of success for you guys will continue for a year, much less 30 years.

I think that the family would benefit greatly from living below its means for a year or two, and then you'd be able to afford all these sudden bumps in the road. It'd be nice to not worry anymore, wouldn't it?

What do you think?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 11:51:12

I appreciate all your concern for David and for Justin. I have worked at Brooks Brothers/Johnston and Murphy, going from an assistant store manager to a store manager in only 6 short months. I have proven my ability to stand on my feet and work hard for 10-12 hours a day working 60-90 hours a week. Why you think I'm going to quit real estate is beyond me! I love what I do and I am very successful. You see me having no value at all. I do. I have asked you for one last time to help me for a short time of just 6-12 months. I hated to ask you, but I did, hoping you would give me a chance. I'm asking you to please do that. The other stuff is mine and David's to take on, not your worry. I need you to help us just for a short time and it will be over. We will be just as happy when you are off that note as you are, BELIEVE ME!!!!

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:03:47

Your response to my logical concerns feels an awful lot like a guilt trip instead of addressing my main point: why do you think your continuing decline in health won't affect your real estate business?

All I see in your future is "I'm sorry, Michael, I did my best, but with the Fibro I just-- I couldn't-- It was just too much, and I'd give you my last breath to make you happy, but I couldn't have known this would've happened." [This phrasing was extremely common with every broken promise, just replace Fibro with any other conveniently invisible malady.]

I'm just a bit disappointed that you aren't taking my concerns seriously, when you're betting my financial future against a shaky proposition, and appear to think that it's just a harmless favor that is of little-to-no risk to me. That simply isn't true.

It makes me think that you don't really care about my concerns, and you're willing to say anything to get this house-- no matter if you can afford it or not.

Do you understand how this might look from my side of the story?

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:08:30

I do think you have value, by the way. You're a great saleswoman precisely because you believe in things whole-heartedly, and it shines through to the clients.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:27:04

Michael, I know my health situation. I'm doing well and I know that I have set my self up for success. No, I do not share your concerns for my health. Because my health and my pain has improved exponentially since I left the retail sales floor! I have a lot of great things ahead of me and my life is getting better, not

getting worse like it was before. I'm making progress and moving forward. This house is a great investment and will be a perfect home for David and the family. We are committed to making this a short term commitment to you, and I believe that was your concern-getting stabbed in the back. You have David and Justin's word that that will not happen. That you will be off that note in 6-12 months. Then you are done. I'm not trying to lay ANY GUILT TRIP ON YOU AT ALL!!! JUST THE FACTS! That is what I enumerated to you earlier. You have devastated me with your words and the scars on my heart will never heal from the anger and hatred I see in your eyes for me. I see it, I feel it, I hear it. I get it. Yes, maybe I'm making this sound too easy-I'm hoping that you will finally see at the end of this short time that: Okay, cool. I'm off the note and everything is fine.

This is the house that Justin & David are both in agreement on. This is a very good value, and has great resale value. Yes, I do need your help!!! Do I deserve your help? No, not in your eyes. But I am asking you to please do this for us. I won't hurt you! David won't hurt you! Justin won't hurt you! You will not be let down again Son!

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:36:44

Why did you quit real estate last time, again? It was an issue with your heart, I believe?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:40:16

The car accident with Matthew set me back! But when Terry quit working I had to here with him or run errands with him. He always wanted me to do what he wanted me to do. Then we put all the savings into the 2 houses, and I got late on my MLS Dues, and office fees, ..... He put me in a no win situation and I lost over $80,000. I intend to rectify that situation!

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:41:59

*** the two flip houses we bought

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:42:24

This is a new life with no more Terry!!!

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:42:24

Terry bought 2 houses at the same time to flip

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:42:46

You bought that second house by yourself. Why?

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:43:23

I remember you saying it was a good deal, but it was a wreck, wasn't it? You bought it before we had any plan to fix it up.

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:44:03

You bought that house. I remember. Terry, Matthew, and I were very upset about it. Do you remember that?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:44:16

Terry said he had a plan and he had a crew. He also told me that he knew how to do all the remodeling.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:44:32

What????

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:44:32

I NEVER BOUGHT A HOUSE [She did.]

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:44:32

This house I am in now is the only one

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:45:46

I remember you specifically saying that you got the house because it was a great deal, even in the middle of trying to fix up the Adobe house. Why?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:46:26

I have no idea what you are referring to. I did no such thing! [She did.]

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:46:40

Terry bought 2 houses back to back! [He didn't. He was pissed that Cheryl bought the extra house.]

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:46:40

That's what HE WANTED!! I DID NOT! Adobe was too big of a project!

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:47:31

Why were you so excited for it? You were proud of getting the house.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:48:47

Because I believed Terry when he told me that him and his Dad owned a construction company and that he knew how to fix it up. I believed what Terry told me [Terry and I both told her it was insane and to immediately sell the house back at a loss.]

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:51:36

How much money do you receive for Austin, if any? I know you get ~1000 from Dan, and ~500 for Hannah, but do you get money for Austin?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:53:02

Look, I'm just trying to make a new life a new start. I know what you think of me, how you feel. How you don't trust me. I have set every precaution in place as a safeguard for you.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:53:04

I get $1150/Dan

$500/Hannah

$591/Austin

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:53:04

June 2014

Mike said at 2013-09-12 12:54:32

When do the payments for Austin stop?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 12:55:38

That is why I did not figure that money in initially

Mike said at 2013-09-12 13:00:47

Thanks. Why do you think you've set every precaution in place? It's still dependent on you continuing on making a good amount of real estate commissions, and November, December, and January are right around the corner.

Dave's $2800/mo would barely cover the mortgage, utilities, and maybe food. Then your child support would be needed just to prop up the cost the trucks, insurance, and gas.

I feel like you don't quite understand the less-obvious costs you're facing in the coming months.

It would help me out a lot to know that you understand all your monthly expenses. Please tell me what your current bills are for everything, because I worry when I see that you haven't had more than $1500 on hand for the last few months.

Mike said at 2013-09-12 13:03:52

Your promise is based on speculative real estate gains.

Why do you think I'm unreasonable for wanting you to be able to know you can afford the house, instead of just hoping you'll be able to in the future?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 13:18:40

Only because the risk to you is temporary, the money is guaranteed to be in the acct when the payments are made.

Mike said at 2013-09-12 13:45:13

If you or Dave get sick, break a leg, anything... You force myself and Justin into bankruptcy.

What is your backup plan?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 13:46:24

NO WE DO NOT! We have insurance for that!

Mike said at 2013-09-12 13:47:24

What would your insurance cover?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 13:48:13

Unable to work, accident, or death

Mike said at 2013-09-12 13:48:47

Okay, and how much does that pay for you, and how much would that pay for Dave. Walk me through what happens.

Mike said at 2013-09-12 13:49:17

Dave can't work, or you can't work. Tell me each story of events of why that's okay.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 13:50:21

Michael, what happens if I die today?

Mike said at 2013-09-12 13:50:41

No idea. Tell me.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 14:18:24

I talked to Nathan about the car. He is going to call Katie. I will get back to you as soon as I hear something more. [Nathan, my younger brother, later informs me that Mom is willing to make future payments on my car if I agree to cosign the $262k house. I decline.]

Mike said at 2013-09-12 14:29:41

Okie doke. Dave said he'll look into the insurance thing, too.

What did you mean by your previous question, by the way? I'd still like to know.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 14:39:21

I'm just hurt. It's no big deal

Mike said at 2013-09-12 14:55:48

Well, I just want you to know that I hope your real estate efforts pay off beyond your wildest imagination. I really want to be proven wrong here.

I just know that shit happens, plans fail, and the best thing for you and the family is to live below your means for a while.

You knew I probably wouldn't be on board for this.

I believe that you guys will find a way to make this work without having to risk the financial futures of two sons that you guys love.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 14:56:48

So you are saying no?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 14:59:32

You have the ability to help us keep our house in escrow and your saying no, you aren't willing to help us for a year?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 15:03:49

Please Michael. I'm begging you. Please help me this one last time [I've given her several last chances before.]

Mike said at 2013-09-12 15:11:13

You aren't willing to give me the answers I need to make that choice, and you seem to be unaware about how dangerous this is.

Also, you don't ask me for my help, you expect it and guilt trip me if I say no. You don't care about the risk to me, you just want me to risk myself for your family that I've never felt a part of. You say you love me, but I don't see how that's possible with how you've brought this up, and how you haven't done your own research on how viable this plan is.

You don't think my concerns are valid. You don't acknowledge that I have so much to lose here. You just want me to sign and trust you, when you haven't given me a reason to trust you.

I'm sorry, Mom, but I feel like you just want to use me and don't care if this ends up failing. You're desperate and willing to lie to me explicitly or by omission. You refuse to tell me what your budgets are and your monthly expenses, and I've asked you several times.

You don't care about me enough to answer my questions. Why is that?

Aren't you concerned? Don't you care enough to do the research?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 15:15:21

Michael, I was making the payments on this house here at $2200 per month every month until Terry quit his job. You are forgetting that. Yes I have come to you and asked you. I have begged you. I have told you we would set up a separate acct that only you 3 would have access to. That gives you the safety net. [She hasn't made a payment on her current home for 18 months.]

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 15:16:00

David makes more money than Terry did when we were making the house payments. So I know it will work

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 15:16:00

Besides Landon and Laurissa have graduated now

Mike said at 2013-09-12 15:16:12

Answer my questions. The account isn't the issue here and you know that.

Mike said at 2013-09-12 15:16:38

You know what I want, and I need to concentrate on my calc 2 class now.

We'll talk later.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 16:26:24

I'm not asking you to trust me. I'm asking you to trust Justin and David. The 2 payments will be put in the account ahead of time, his checks on auto deposit, half payments made every two weeks. Justin and David will get your name off within the 12 months. Justin will stay on with his Dad for the 12 months. Justin has no problem with that.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 16:28:32

The monthly budget of our family will still be our responsibility. David is a 45 year old man who has managed his life very well and feels he is quite capable of making our financial decisions and budgeting our money.

Mike said at 2013-09-12 16:30:08

You know that's not the answer to my question of what happens if you or Dave are injured. Stop insulting me and give me an answer.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 16:30:40

That was David's answer.

Mike said at 2013-09-12 16:31:01

Wrong answer, try again.

Mike said at 2013-09-12 16:31:43

So make a quick decision, then. What do you do?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 16:33:19

This is not a quick decision. We have been working on this for 4 frickin months! You listened to me until 2am listening to what I have been going through with the housing situation.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 16:34:13

We have a great plan in place and a 2 payment cushion in the bank to boot. We think that is a bankable plan [The cushion comes from the her commission on selling me the house.]

Mike said at 2013-09-12 16:34:41

What happens, mom?

Quit dodging the question and tell me.

Mike said at 2013-09-12 16:35:47

Never mind, I need to focus on this class.

We can chat later.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 16:35:56

Oh, I didn't see that question. Sorry

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 21:05:52

David has insurance at work that will cover him being hurt, injured, health issue, or death.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 21:08:00

He feels that you can accept that he is telling you the truth or not, that's your choice. He has been completely open with you and feels he has given you no reason not to trust him or Justin in this matter.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 21:16:01

Justin is the beneficiary of those policies. You can reach Justin at: (XXX) XXX-XXXX.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 21:27:08

You know, David felt like you called him worthless when you said you would never fathom buying a house with only $1,000 in the bank. That wasn't cool

Mike said at 2013-09-12 21:56:59

Did I tell you I was thinking about going to Sydney, Australia for a Study Abroad program? I'm pretty excited. [I'm ignoring her petty guilt trip with misdirection.]

Cheryl said at 2013-09-12 21:57:04

That sounds amazing! What a great opportunity!!!

Cheryl said at 2013-09-13 20:05:28

David wanted me to let you know his new weekly pay-before his raise-is 815.92

Cheryl said at 2013-09-13 20:06:08

That take home

Cheryl said at 2013-09-13 20:06:08

*thats*

Cheryl said at 2013-09-15 12:55:12

Any updates today?

Cheryl said at 2013-09-15 12:55:12

If I'm not going to have a place to live, I need to know ;). Just satin'

Cheryl said at 2013-09-15 12:55:12

*sayin

Mike said at 2013-09-15 13:14:46

Nah, you're a smart lady, and Dave's smart too, and when this started you both told me you'd be fine no matter what. I believe it. "It's not worth risking our relationship." Hell, with that $30,000 commission rolling in soon, you could just pay in advance for a REALLY nice rental or apartment. [The 30k commission never happened]

I know that you guys are going to pull through, and you'll have the joy of making it together on your own.

You guys didn't just assume that this first plan to get me and Justin involved would go through, right? It was a long-shot to begin with. We didn't even actually qualify unless my car was paid off! And why would you put all your eggs in that basket, anyway?

Y'all have already scouted a nice, cheaper place by now I bet.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-15 13:16:32

Thanks for the update. Let me know if the study abroad program in Australia works out. That would be so amazing! What a great opportunity!!!

Mike said at 2013-09-15 13:30:12

Will do! Keep your head up.

Cheryl said at 2013-09-15 13:30:48

I always do ���

Cheryl said at 2013-09-19 15:32:19

Yeah, I'm pretty fucking worthless! [There is a picture of an ~$8,000 commission check]

Mike said at 2013-09-19 15:47:04

You know I never said that or even implied it, and I forgive you for lashing out. You're under a lot of stress right now.

I just can't afford to stretch myself so thin when I'm in the middle of a mental breakdown and feel like you only want to use me as a risk-bearing agent; and not even acknowledge or respect my concerns.

I look forward to the day when money issues won't hold you or the family back anymore.

Go kick some ass, Mom.

Cheryl said at 2013-10-09 16:28:53

I need y'all's mailing address please. I am sending announcements out. Thank you!

Cheryl said at 2013-10-11 10:50:36

Hi guys! Still waiting for those addresses ;)

Cheryl said at 2013-10-11 10:54:49

Hope you are well. I miss you so much!!! You have no idea!

Cheryl said at 2013-10-11 10:57:52

I know how you feel about me, but please at least let me know if you are ok. I love you Son!

Cheryl said at 2013-10-11 11:25:53

You boys have no idea how much you are loved and missed! I am hoping and looking forward to seeing you all at Christmas! I think we will do another family Barron's game. We think that would be a great Christmas tradition to continue!

Mike said at 2013-10-11 21:22:08

I'm not comfortable giving you my address, so I'm not going to.

I'm not going to play along and pretend like we're a happy family. I learned something very important when you repeatedly tried to guilt trip me into signing on that home loan: you don't give a fuck about any risk to me, you don't respect my concerns, and I'm just an emergency piggy bank to you.

I don't deserve to have that in my life. I've financially bled and leveraged myself for the family several times, and that adds up to jack shit from you.

Typing the words "love" no longer affects me when the way you treat me is like I'm disposable.

I'm worth more than that.

Thanks for giving me something to fight against, though. I needed that.

Cheryl said at 2013-10-11 21:29:14

Well you know you have a right to your opinion. I don't deserve this from you at all! I have tried to work through our issues. I've cried buckets of tears over you and I have apologized to you several times for hurting you. I deserve your love and respect. I've earned that whether you agree or not. I love you whether you believe that or not! But I'm not your door mat either! I'm tired of you beating up on me!

Cheryl said at 2013-10-18 10:31:23

I'm heading up to Norman, do you want to have lunch. Don't want or need anything, just would like to see you. Love mom

Mike said at 2013-10-18 11:12:44

No thanks, I'll be I'm classes til 2. Have a good day.