mrs. ephsanna hollinsda.mdah.ms.gov/vault/projects/ohtranscripts/au029_095883.pdf · 1976. roberta...

An Interview With

MRS. EPHSANNA HOLLINS

March 15, 1978

Interviewed byDaisy Greene

/

MississippiDepartment_·ot Archives and History/

and theWashington County Library System

Oral History Project:Greenville and Vicinity

MISSISSIPPI DEPT. OF ARCHIVES & HISTORY

oH Ifff,o(. 17

.-

- c r r c ef rus material may be

protected by copyright

law (Title 17U.S. Code).

AU 29OH 1979.01.77Interviewee:Interviewer:

Title:

Collection Title:

Scope Note:

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Ephsanna HollinsDaisy Greene

An interview with Ephsanna Hollins, March 15, 1978/interviewed by Daisy Greene

Washington County Library System and the MississippiDepartment of Archives and History Oral History Project

This oral history project began with a grant from theSouth Delta Development Planning District in December1976. Roberta Miller and Daisy Greene were the projectcoordinators until the project ended January 1, 1979. Thepurpose of the project was to interview local residentsand record their views and recollections of WashingtonCounty's history.

Items in this collection were selected to be digitallyremastered through the National Endowment for theHumanities Civil Rights Era Recordings Grant in 2004.

Hollins 1

GREENE:March 15, 1978~ This is Daisy Greene

interviewing Mrs. Ephsanna Hollins, who lives at 1952 Spruce

Street. Mrs. Hollins, you have a very unusual tirst name.

HOLLINS: Thank you.

GREENE: Tell me about 1t.

HOLLINS: Well, I'm named tor my grandmother - my

tather's mother - and they said she was a mixture ot Indian and

Creole.

GREENE: Give me the date and place ot your birth,

Mrs. Hollins.

HOLLINS: I was born at Carrollton, Mississippi,

the year ot 1909, on July 25th.

GREENE: Your mother t s maiden name.

HOLLINS: Georgia McCollough.

GREENE:Will you spell it?

HOLLINS: M-c-C-O-L-L-O-U-G-H.

GRl!:ENE:And your tather' s name?.~

HOLLINS: Simon Jackson.

GREENE:Did your mother or your grandmother ever

tell you anything about slavery?

HOLLINS: Well, my mother told me about her tather.

She was raised up without her tather. Her daddy was a well-digger,

and he dug a lot or wells. or course, he wanted his pay, and wheni

he· asked tori his pay, his boss men asked him to come up to the


1\1 UTI C ETrus material may be



Hollins 2

orrice, you know. He went there, and instead or them paying himthe money, he knew they were going to beat him up or something.When they began to try to do what they planned to do to him, hebegan to shoot, and he killed up a lot or people. That was calleda "Carrollton Mob".

GREENE: A Carrollton --HOLLINS: Mob. And somehow he got away, and my mother

never did see him. This happened just before she was born. Shenever did see her father. She searohed different places, butshe never did -hear tell of him any more.

GREENE: When was that?HOLLINS: That must have been in 1800 somewhere, I am

sure. You see, I was born in 1909, and that was back before mymothe~ was born. -,

GREENE1, How old would your mother be if she wereliving?

HOLLINS: My mother died in 1945.' She was in her lateforties. She was somewhere around ~7 when she passed, and I don't.

,-know about how many years that is now. She'd~be about eighty.GREENE: Now, I understand you kept ttFreedomRiders" in

your home.HOLLINS: Yes, I did.GREENE: What kind ot people were they?HOLLINS: They were caucasians. They were white people.

i

They were nioe people. I kept them tor around two years. One

MISSISSIPPI DEPT. OF ARCHIVES s HISTORY

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Hollins 3

stayed with me almost a year, and she -was just like a daughter.I wouldn't want to meet anybody any nicer •. She slept with mybaby girl, my little grandbaby. She was just as nice to her asa sister, and on Sunday mornings I'd have to get up and go tochurch. I play music, you know. I'd get up to go to church onSunday mornings. Since she wasn't busy; she would tell me, "Mrs.Hollins, you just go on and fix breakfast. When you get throughwith breakfast, you go dress, because you don't want to be latefor your people, and I'll clean up and wash dishes." And when Icame back, everything was cleaned up so nice. On Saturdays, whenshe wasn't working, she would fix dinner. She didn't want me toeven come and get it. She would bring it to me. She was nice,very nice.

GREENE: She was a young woman?/ '.

HOLLINS: A young woman. And when she got ready toleave me - she stayed with me nearly a year - she came in thatnight atter she had gone to a meeting, and ~aid, ~rs. Hollins,I'll probably be leaving in the morning before-day, before you

1; , ~

get up." And ~ said, "Oh,' are you fixing to :t~ave?" She said,"Yes, I've got to go. They're sending us to'another place." Isaid, WWell, I'm going to miss you." She said, wres, and I'mgoing to miss you, too. But I don't want you to get up." I said,"Let me know when you get ready to go, and I'll get up and helpyou." She s~id, «No, I don't want you to break your rest. You

ijust go on and rest.NOTICE


This material may be


law (Title 17U. s. Code).

Hollins 4

But, anyway, the next morning when she was tippingaround, you know, trying not to wake me, I.got up. I went inthere and said, wrou're fixing to go?" She said, -res." Andshe ran to me and hugged me and kissed me and began to cry.She said, "Mrs. Hollins, you've been a mother, and I just loveyou. I hate to leave." But, anyway, she went on and got through.When she got ready to leave she left me one of her little lipstick compacts, you know. It was beautiful jewelry. Shewrapped a paper around that, and wrote, ~rs. Hollins, I wantyou to have this." She siipped that under a Bible we had onthe dining room table. She didn't have to give it to me.And then she slipped five dollars under the Bible. She said,"I just want you to have this." When she got ready to leave,she hugged me and ldssed me again, and went on. She was nice.

E • '

I wouldn't want anybody nicer to stay with me.GREENE: Did her parents write her?HOLLINS: Yes, they did. Her parents would write

and she would write her par~nts.GREENE: They.waren' t angry wi th her for coming south?HOLLINS: No, they weren't.GREENE: Where was she from?HOLLINS: I've forgotten where she came trom now.GREENE: Do you know whether she was paid for her

work in Mis~issippi?iHOLLINS: No, I don t t. ,I really don t t think she was,

because she wouldn't have things that she would need. I thinkNOTICE

MISSISSIPPI DEPT. OF ARCHIVES & HISTORYThis material may be


law /Title 17U. S. Code).

Hollins 5

her parents sent her money, too. Sometimes, she would bewithout, you know. And we never" charged her tor anything whenshe was there. Every day we would give her breakfast. When-ever she would be at home, she would go to the store with thechildren, just like my child.

GREENE: From time to time, how many Freedom Ridersdid you have?

HOLLINS: We11, about three. I had three. Onestayed with me around six months, and another one just spenta night. This"was a lady that went back. She had to go awaysomewhere, but anyway about two weeks atter she left she sentme a"beautiful head scarf from Africa. She wrote me a nice,sweet letter. She only spent one night, but she came to staylonger, but had to go right back. They were nice people.

GREENE: Do you know of any stories wherein peoplecould put spells on one another or give them a hand?

HOLLINS: I've heard a good many stories, but some-,;;.

thing that was closer to me I remember. My 'h~sband had a firstcousin who went blind, and they said that someone took a frog -burned up a frog - and put the dust in his hat, and when hewent over to visit, he put the hat on his head and the dust gotinto his eyes. That was the cause of him going blind. Mydaughter-in-law --

GREENE: Excuse me. Did he ever regain his Sight?i

HOLLINS: No, he died like that. And my daughter-in-law,





Hollins 8

when she was a girl, someone was courting her. She had a lotof friends, and one young man was a friend'- just a friend -but anyway all at once he just took one evening and died in afew minutes. They say in his sickness he had drunk somewhiskey, and somebody had put something in it, and when hebegan to vomit in a pan, he would just vomit blood, and thatblood would lump up all at once and turn into trogs• I didn'tsee it myself, but it happened right there in my community.

GREENE: And most of the people believed it?HOLLINS: Yes, they did.GREENE: Do you know it these frogs were jumping

around?HOLLINS: They said they'd move about.GREENE: Are you a registered voter?HOLLINS: Oh, yes, I am.GREENE: Did you have any difficulty registering?HOLLINS: \VhenI registered the tirst time, I did •

.-When I registered the first time, you know, ·th.eywould giveyou a little strip trom the

GREENE: Poll Tax?HOLLINS: No, from the Constitution, you know.GREENE: Oh, a passage trom the Constitution?HOLLINS: dust on a little strip. We'd have to reach

in the box and draw out a strip. You didn't know what you werei

ge"tting out until you drew it. Then you read it and ahswered


NOTiceThis material may be


law (Title 17U. S. Code).

Hollins 7

the questions; And, of course, I had no trouble. I didn'teven have to go back. Well, so many people like that - myhusband had to go back about the third time before he couldanswer that question. But I didn't have to go back. I answeredit the first time.

GREENE: About what year was that?HOLLINS: I can't remember the year. It has been

a long time.GREENE: Have you ever served on a jury?HOLLINS: Yes, I have,GREENE: Do you remember the nature of the case?HOLLINS: Well, the first case was a federal case,

and this was a jailer - a man who kept the jail house here.A man was arrested and carried to that jail. He died in jailwithout medical care. I served on that jury.

GREENE: That wasn't too long ago, was it?HOLLINS: No J it wasn't • But he had been dead a long

time. It had been a lo~g t~e, because his'clothes that they,

showed us, you know, the blue shirt - the blood had turnedbrown in just spots - but they had 80 many other things -evidence and that. He was a heart patient and they said thatwas why he bled 80 unusual, you know, because he was a heartpatient. He died from that.

G~EENE: Was the jailer convicted?HOLLINS: This man that diedGREENE: Didn't you say the jailer was bei tried?

Ie

MISSISSIPPI DEPT. OF ARCHIVES & HISTORYI hI, .",,(erial may beprotected by copyright


Hollins 8

HOLLINS: Tried, yes.GREENE: Was he convicted?HOLLINS: Well, it was - yes, in this way, because

they had -- this woman had so much money, you know, tor thedeath of her husband, and they really did do that. And I'veforgotten now - that's been a good while - how much it waso

GREENE: Did any of your friends serve on the jury?HOLLINS: No, just people from different places.GHE.trnE:I don't mean this particular case. Do

you have friends who have served on other juries?HOLLINS: My husband has served on a jury. I served

on the jury last year, but I didn't get to work. It was onethat the child had got beaten at school, I think. The othertime I stayed almost a week. There w~re different ones.

I

GREENE: Do you mind going into detail about thischild that was whipped in school?

HOLLINS: We11, I don't know too ·much about it.This was a child running track, I ~hink. The"teacher spanked

"him for something he didn"t do, and the mother had him arrestedfor that.

GREENE: Was the teacher dismissed?HOLLINS: No.GREENE: NOW, Mrs. Hollins, what about the two-headed

man?

NOTICE



law (Title 17U. S. Code).

-- 1

Hollins 9

HOLLINS: Well, he was a man, they say, who wouldcause spells and do things to hurt people it you wanted themhurt. Or he could take them ott people, it they wanted ittook ott. They said if the person wasn't dead that had "tixed"him, then he could take it ott; but it the person was dead,there wouldn't be nothing he could do about it. Well, ot

course, I stayed sick for a long time, you know, but I thinkmine was mostly over-work. But it you've got a husband, youknow, that's curious about you and wants you to be well andthings, sometimes they will do those things to h~lp you. Well,I had been to doctors and doctors, and they told him,"ReverendHollins, your wite might be hurt. Why don't you carry her?"And he just picked me up and carried me on, and I went downwhen we got to this man's home and tound him in the bed. So

,f .'

he turned over and looked at him and said, "Reverend Hollins."And my husband said, -r brought'my wite down here. I want youto see about my wite." He turned over and·looked at me andsaid, "There's nothing wrong with ,-,ourwite. ,-Your wite is all.right. Just ner nerves are bad and her stomach is bad. You hadbetter go get some medicine tor her stomach and her nerves. That'sall that is wrong with your wite." And so we just went on out.That's all I know about it.

GREENE: Did he charge tor his services?H9LLINS: No, he didn't charge. He said, «Your witei

don't need nothing."NOTICE




Hollins 10

GREENE: Well, how did he make a living?HOLLINS: He charged other people; other people.GREENE: But he didntt charge your husband?HOLLINS: Thatts right. He didntt have to wait on

me or nothing.GREENE: You said you were born in Carroll County.HOLLINS: Thatts right.GREENE: Were you married there?HOLLINS: No, I married at Shaw, Mississippi.GREEt-TE: Why did you and your husband come to

Greenville?HOLLINS: Well, we moved to Itta Bena , and stayed

there for a good many years. We had accumulated a lot, andsoon we got kind of displeased with the people that were there,because we had a lot of property and had bought up a lot ofproperty. My husband had three, big trucks, ran a big woodyard, had a store and a garage shop. The trucks would comethrough the yard and cut deep ruts. "He got up one morning

l • .before day and saw the yard 'full of something" he thought wasblood when he first looked out. He called me and said, wOh,just look at the blood around the houseZ- So I got up andwent to see, and it was red gas. Somebody had poured redgas in the ruts and it had run all down the side of the house.He went and got a bucket, and I said, wReverend, where would

{i




law (Title 17u. s. Code).

Hollins 11

all that blood come from?" So he stuck his hand in it andsmelled it, and it was gas. He went and g~t a half gallonbucket, and you know just about how deep it was in ruts - abouta half gallon bucket. He picked it up and put it in a can andcarried it down the street and poured out as much as he couldpour. We began to think we had bettereleave. So my husbandcome over to Greenville and bought here; we lived there thatyear out. Then we moved here the next spring, I think it was.

GREENE: So it just happened that your house wasn'tburned?

HOLLINS: Just happened that they didn't throw amatch. If they had thrown a match it would have just burnedus up. We had three houses right in that spot.

GREENE: You sold your property?HOLLINS: We sold the property there.GREENE: You had a narrow escape, didn't you?HOLLINS: Yes, we did.

(End'of Interview)(Transcribed by Alice C. Nagel)

FINALJune 13, 1978Alice C. Nagel

NOTICE




INDEX

OF EPHSANNA HOLLINS

BY SHERILYN D. ALLEN

Africa, mentioned, 5

Carroll County, mentioned, 10

Carrollton, Mississippi, mentioned, 1

"Carrollton Mob", 2

Constitution, the, mentioned, 6Creole, mentioned, 1

"Freedom Riders", 2, 5

Hollins, (Reverend), husband, 9, 10

Hollin~, Ephsanna: born, Carrollton, Mississippi, 1; association.

with "Freedom Riders", 2-5; registered voter, 6;service, as juror, 7, 8 ..

Indian, mentioned, 1

Itta Bena (Miss.), mentioned, 10

Jackson, Simon, father, 1

Jury, service, 7, 8McCullough, Georgia, mother, i

Poll tax, mentioned, 6Shaw, Mississippi, mentioned, 10

Slavery, mentioned, 1

Spell casting, 5. 9. See also Two-headed Man

Two-headed Man,; 8-10. ~ also Spell caatd.ng.,,Voting, requirements, 6




, law (Title 17u. s. Code).

mrs. ephsanna hollinsda.mdah.ms.gov/vault/projects/ohtranscripts/au029_095883.pdf · 1976. roberta...

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