Paerprsete. (6 FEBRUARY, 1900,] Appr-opriation, Bill. 2073

Naew Schedule:-The MIUNISTER FOR WORKS moved

that a schedule be inserted defining theMetropolitan Sewerage and DrainageA rea.

New Schedule-agreed to.Title-agreed to.Bill reported with amendments, the

report adapted.

Third Readin4.Read a third time and transmitted

to the Legislative Council.

ADJOUR NMNENT-PROROGATIO NARRANGEMENTS.

The PREMIIER mnoved-That the House at its rising adjourn to

10.80 a.m.Question passed.

Houwe adjournied at 6.88 anm. (Satur-day).

Saturday, 61h Pebrnary, 1009.

PAGEPapr rebented .. .. .. 13Bills: LiieFartnerships. Cons.. etc ......... 207M

Appoplsioo' all stas ....... I....2%73Merpolitan Sewerage and Drainage (Tern.porary), 2R,potponsed 2089

Excess. aul Stages ............. ... 2093Local Court Act Azienduselt. Assetnblf's

W~orkers' Comapensaition Act Amendmnt,Assembhly's Amendment........2M

Assent to Sills..................2" 4.Conynruqlatorv Remrks, Close 4i Session .. 2094Prorovation Sp~eech.............2W5

The PRESIDENST took the Chair at10.30 a-rm., and read prayers.

PAPER PRESENTED.Tb the Colonial Seeretaryo: RB--law. Fire

Britraxes A0t.

BILL- LIMITED PARTN\ERSHIPS.In Committee.

Bill passed through Committee withoutdebate. Reported.

Honl. E. M. C LAR KE:- In Clause 2 was.

it 'lot necessary to alter the date on whichthe Bill shiould comie into force? Theclause lprovided that it should come itofor-ce on the 1st January.

The CHAIRMAN: That question can-not be collsidered now.

The COLON,\IAL SECRETARY: Welilglt rcconmuit the Bill to alter the date.

Bill reported without aiueudiuent; therepoit adopted.

Recommittal.Oin motion by lion. Ml. L. Moss, Bill re-

commnitted for further consideration.Clause 2-Commencement.On miotion by the Colonial Secretary, in

line 1 the wurd '"Jainuary" W-as struck outanld "Ma10 inlserted inl lieu.

Bill further reported; the report adop-ted.

T'hird Reading.Rend a third time and returned to the

Assembly with ani a niucuent.

BILL-APP ROPRIA-TTO'N.All1 Stages.

Received from the Legislative Assem-biy and read a first time.

(Sitting suspended from 10.45 to Ita.mn.)

Seond Reading, Post ponlement.

Tf le COLO'NIAL SECRETARY mo;'-ed-

That the second reading be post-poined unitl after the consideration ofthe Legislative Assembly's M1essagetransutit tiny th~e Jietropolt ian Sewer-age and Drainage Bill.

He dlid tllis becaulse the Metr'opolitanSewerage and Drainage (Temporary)Bill was a new measure. He intended tomove the second i-ending of that inca-sure, and then further Pppne it untilafter the consideration of the Appro-priation Bill. This would g-ive membersthe oppurtutnit% tI consider it.

Paper presented.

2074 Appropriation Bill: [CU IL]Aleage

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN! desired tomake a few remarks that might be of as-sistance to the Chamber, and also to an-other place, and perhaps to the Govern-ment. When the second reading of theAppropriation Bill came before us, heintended to ask whether any reply hadbeen received to a Message sent from thisChamber on the 16th of December. TheAppropriation Bill had reference to themnatter concerning- which a Message hadbeen sent asking the concurrence of theAssembly in the proposal that the con-sideration of the Fremantle dock shouldbe postponed; and in accordance withthe ruiling the President had given thatit was iiecessary that repilies should bereceived to Messages sent to the otherChamber before the matters contained inthemn could be dealt with in the Council.Hie intended to miove an amendnient inthe event of the Colonial Secretary bring-ing forward the Appropriation Bill with-out our having previously received aMessage in reply to ours.

The PRESDEN'f: The lion. memberwas not in order now in introducing thatphase of the question. The House -wassimply dealing with the arrangement ofthe business to be placed before it.

Hon. .1. WV. KIRWAN: Possibly if heexplained this miatter it might prevent de-lay. He desired, if the House wouldgrant him the indulgence, to make ashort statement.

The PRESIDENT: Is it the pleasureof the House that the hion. member pro-ceeds with his statement now'?

Leave granted.H-on. J. WV. IIR.WAN: It -was pleas-

ing the House allowed him to make astatement, because it was a matter Vir-tually affecting the privileges of theHouse and lie did not wish to he accused.in any wvay of subsequeutly detainingthe other branch of the Legislaturewhen he took a stand in this matterthat lie was sure every member of theChaniber would support him in. When.a Message was sent from this Chamberit claimed respect.

The COLONLM SECRETARY: Ngoodl could be served by the hon. mern-her discussing this inatter.

Hon,. J. 1F,. Kirwuan: It will save timelater.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY : Itwould not, because the Assembly stoodadjourned until noon aind a Message, ifnot already sent, could not be sent untilthen; and if the hon. member intendedto discuss the Appropriation Bill, thesame discussion would come on againwheni we rea~hed the Bill.

Hon. J. W. KIRW AN: The Housemight allow himi to intimate that if theBill camne without a Message from theother Chamber wvith regard to our motionais to the Fremnantle dock, he intended toInure thie following amuendmient:

"'That in view of the followingfacts (1) that a Message was sentfrom this House on the 16th Decem-ber asking for the concurrence of thieLegislative Assembly in at resolutionof this Chamber, that the further con-struction of the Fremantle dock bepostponed, and (2) that the Bill nowbefore the House intimates that it isthe intention of the Government toproceed with the work notwithstand-ing that no0 reply hias been received tothe Conucil's Mesgeither announc-ing the Legislative Asembly's concur-renc11e or stating reasons fur not con-em-ringp, or for declining to entertainthe MNessage sent by this House, thatthis House is Of Opinion that the fu~r-ther consideration of this Bill shouldbe postponed pending the receipt ofthe reply to the Council 's Message.''

The reason lie announced this was to givethe other Chamber and the Governumentan opportunity of Sending a reply to theMessage sent from this House before theBill was considered by this Chamber.He intimated this in orclei to save timie.

Motion put and passed; Order p ist-poned.

Second Reading.At a later stage-The COLONIAL SECRETARY Mlon.

J. D. Connallyv) in mioving the secondreading said : lIt will not be necessaryfor use to speak at any length ion shesecond reading-. nor is it ait all1 usual 'inthe Appropriation Bill for the Minisierin this House to make any' lengthy' me-marks, lion, memnbers,. of course,' had

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Apprpriaion ill: [6 FEBRUARY, 1909.])l tge. 27

fihe full information in regard to thefins ties when the Treasurer deliveredhis Budget speech a few months ago.This is the usual Bill appropriating thlerevenue for thle Year and lion, mtemberswilt g-et details as to how the expendi-ture is distributed hr* looking- at the Es-timantes of expenditure for the Year end-ing thle 30th June. 1009,

l1in. W,' Kinysia ill: What about theLoan Estimates9

Thle COLONIAL SECRETARY: Theyvare all there. The firtprin ftiBill deals wvith thle revenue for thle cuir-rent r ear. Schedule B sets out exactlyhow that revenue is to be expended. Formnore detailed iniformation in regard tothe departments hion. memabers will turnto the Estimates. Schedule D) deals withthe Loan Appropriation up to thle endoit tis flnancial y-ear. I dot not knowthat at this stage it is necessary for nieto say anything further. It has neverbeen the custom of this House duringmn'y mnembership for a set speech toP bemade on the second reading. Any fur-ther information that marv be reqjuiredI -will le pleased to gvive In Committee.Iinov

That the Bill be 1101 read ai Secondliale.

lIon. .1, . W. HACKETT: 1 second themotion.

Hloit. .3. AV. IRIWAN ( Sonth: :1 haveno des;ire to mnake a speech on the secondreading of this Bill, hut there is a mutterI wish to hbring forwaird. 'it affects thepriviltges ofi this House. and I am) survI will have the con1currence of ever vmnember nif this Chamber in my attitude.more especially ini view of a recent-iction taken in the Legisintive Asseml]y.This Bill I. underst.and-there have beenlso many utoney Bills before tile Chain-bet this morning, that it is rather difficultto know which is which-this Bill isto apply at sumn out of ConsolidatedRevenlue Fund, and from moneys to thecredit of the TruLst Fund and the (lieneralLoan Flund to the services of the rear:and] that one of the schedules to thisBill contains the details of thle esrimtatedexpenditure from General Loan Flund.I wish to point out in connection with

this matter that on the 16th Decemberthis House passed a resolution. I do notwisih to discuss the mer-its of that resolu-tion here. I do not wish for one momentto say whether the majority of this Housewere righit or wrong in that matter. Ithink that in here considering this mnat-ter. the wisdom of passing the reSOlul ionhas nothinig whatever to do with thleqjuestion. The resolution expressed t1leopinion that thle construction of thle Fri.-nnille dock ought to be postponed, anduthat resolution was sent to the Legisla-tirve Assembly asking for thle concur-iree (of that Chiamber. Now, I under-shitld that no reply has been receivedlto that message. The position hans beenrendered all the more important in viewof what took place in connection Withthec Health Bill only a short time ago.And] it is rendered doubly important byxreason of the very weighty opinion ex-pres.sed by% you . sir, as President of thisChamber-an opinion that I am sure isendorsed by every member of this Chata-her; an opinion indeed that w~as en-dor1sed by thle Leader of the House inias-niuch as hie adopted a certain course *forito tither reason than to have theposition ot this Hotise asserted. Itw-ill he remembered that a Bill was sentfrom this Cilaniher dealing with anlainiidiei to (lie Healtha Act, and thata mnessage aiecomipanied this Bill. Noreply' was received to that miessage, butanother Bill was sent down. You, asPresident iif thlis Chamber. on that occa-Sion took a stand that I ami sure every'lion, mnember must admire. What yousaid was this: "'It appears to me that ifthis lion. House sends a message to theL~egislative Assembly asking for concur-rence in any Bill, motion or resolution.this House has a righit to expect of theLeislative Assemibly a reply to such'message. either announcing their concur-rence or giving their reasons lot' non-concurrence, or. as inl this patclrcase.

for declining to entertain the Bill. motionor resolution sent by this House." TEmy memory serves me right,' you ivent onto say that, otherwise it would he openfor the Assembly to treat every' mcssaefrom this H3ouse with contempt. atid by~ordering the discharge of the measure

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2076 Appropriationt Bill:NI i Alstgs

from the Notice Paper, to prevent all.,discussion thereon.

The Colonial Sec-retary: It is doneeLvery Session.

Hon. 3. W. KIRWAN: I can under-stand it where Bills are crowded out;bitt this is a totally different ease. TheAssembly have acted in direct oppositionto this Chamber, and have not favouredthe Chamber with a reply. Furthermore,as the Assembly is now in session, [took occasion this morning, with the in-dlulgence of this House, to point out what,1 was going to do. I was hoping that a-MessA~ge might have been sent down. Weknow what the teply would be. Bitt thisis not the point for 1 rto not wish to li-s-eiuss the merits of the resolution at all;but . e laim that this House has certain)rights and) privileges andt I think most.members inl this Chamber know my~ posi-tion. 1. claim this House has, certainrighlts and privileges. and though woustniibers of this Chamber know that myviews reg arding the TLegislat ire Counciluniv.1 )ot lbe inl aecordance with those ofthe majority, V still I s-ay that if t Iesetights and p)rivileges are to be infrinvedthey should be dealt with iii a comistilti-ticiual wvay.v I object to another brain-lII-if tile Legislaure aIbrogating- to itselfrightls 11lint shloitld belong to tilt )eople.I f the Chamiber is to be deprived idf itsusefulness let it be done in a const itit-riount way, and that is a totally dif-ferenlt question, lbut I stronigly objectto its being done in this way. If we areio pass resolutions andi are not to re-ceive the courtesy of a reply, lbut haves.ent to us a Iproposal of this kind ittdirect defiance of our- request, then if weare to submit to that kind of thingT all] inclined to agree with the reii:auksmade by members of this Chamber and4ithers that the sooner the Chamber isabolished the better.

The PRESIDENT: Perhaps the lion.mnember will put himself in order. Thequestion before the House is "that theBill he now read a second time."

Ron. J. WV. KIRWAN: I purpose con-cluding by proposing ait amendment em-bodying the exact words of ihe ruling'siVgn liv vYon the other day. A Cgentle-mttn has b een extremely kind to pit hei

mat icr inl what lie considers thle betterform, but 1. prefer to adhere to my or-iginal proposal, because it embodies theexact terms expressed by you to theChamuber and agreed to by, the Leaderof thle house. Theo proposal I shall makeis, perhaps, rather ivolved. I proposethis amendment:

That in viewv of the followcig facts-1. flhat a Message icas seat from thishouse ou the 16th December asking for(he concurrence of tie Legislative As-.senibly in a iesolut ion of this (jheatjier,that the f urther coastrnction of the lFre-manle dock be postponed, rend 2, thata lill nowt before the Hlouse intimatesthat it is the intention of the Govern-nient to proceed with, the work viotirith-standing that no reply has been reuet redto the? Council's M1-essage, either an-noancinrj the Legislative -Assai big's

connrrnheor Stating reasons for notconeurring or for declining to entertainthe Messeeje sent tby this House. thatthis House is of opinion that ila fur-the consideration of this Bill 0houldbe postponed pending the receipt ofltereply to the Con cits Mlessage.

lon. .7. 11'. h1ackett : is that a motionfor anl adjournment?

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN: No, becauseit contains statements other thatn the simi-ple miotionl for adjournment, andt con-sequently it can he discussed. However,what I intended to poinit out is this. Ifthe Council pas5s this amndment I do notsee that it need delay the sitting of Par-liament for iure thain perhaps a few min-utes. Everyone knows the opinion theabsolute majority of the Legislative As-seil have onl this particular question.

The Colonial Secretary: Is there notlikely to be a long discussion oii it

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN: I do not thinkso; bitt that has nothing to do with it; itis a qitestion that affects the rights of thisChamber. I was going to say that in allprobabilit 'y it would take only a few mini-utes. but if it takes a few mionths, ot' afew years. I still maintain that we hadbetter shut uip this House and not go onwith any of our business if wve do not in-sirt on our righ1ts, thle ot-di nary courtesyfliut tlte .Pzhvshould sin- wvhether

[COUNCII,.' All stages.

Apprpriaion ill: [6 FEBRUARY, 1909.])l tge. 27

they agree to, or disagree to, or decline todiscuss our resolution. If it provokeslong discussion, what is that? It affectsthle rights of the House, a question onwhich the House took a strong attitudea week ago, and a stand in which theLeader of the House concurred.

The Colonial Secretary: How?Hon. J. WV. KIRWAN:- Yon agreed to

the motion for adjournment, and that isall I ask onl this occasion, I am suremembers, whether they favoured theformner resolution -we passed or not, willagree with ine on this lparticnlar question.

Point of Order.lion. M. L. Moss: I rise to a point of

order. According, to Standing Order 410a debate may be adjourned to a later houron the same dlay, or to any other day,which mneans that such a motion as the1lion. member hlas moved must stipulateprecisely the hour to which it is movedor some subsequent day. There has beena great deal of latitude given to the lion.member, The hoa. member has made aspeech onl a motion for adjournment thatlie has no right to make.

The President: If the hon. memberrises to a. point of order I would like tohear him.

Hion. 31. L. 3loss: It does not need1Lunch discussion. The effect of the bon.

member's speech is that he wants thismatter adjourned, and in doing that hemust stipulate the hour to whOich the ad-journment is made, and mnust do it with-out making a speech. He has made along speech on the question and is entirelyout of order.

Mr. Kirwan: Sir-The President;. I hare to reply to 'Mr.

Moss's point of order first.Mr. Kirwan: Sir, would you permit mne

to point out in reply to what Mr. Mosshas said--

The President: You can make a shortstatement in reply.

M1r. Kirwan: I think the StandingOrder contains a different interpretation.I mnay also point out, as I hare alreadypointed out, that this is not a mnere motionfor anl adjournment, but contains state-ments Which go further than a meremotion for adjournment.

(711

The President: In reply to M1r. Moss Idraw attention to Standing Order IS6which, dealing with the second reading,says that no other amendment, except theones before specified. ay be moved tosuch cluestion except in the form of a re-solution strictly relevant to the Bill. Irule this is strictly relevant to the Bill.

Hfon. J1. WV. Hackett:- Can the hon, mem-ber move the adjournment after speakingl

The Pr'esident: No. Some other meta-ber must move the adjournment.

lon. -1I. 7.. JJ1oss: That is just what the11o1. tuemiiber' did.

lionl. J. Ill. Kirwan: I simply men-Lioned what. my proposal was.

Tire President: I think the hon. mciii-her was rather lengthy, but I took itsimply as an amendment. The HoLuse

pr'eviously goave the 11011. member idul-gence amid I allowed him to make a veryleng,.thy speech, but I thilik it Would bebetter for someone else to move the ad-Journluent. Such motion is not open todebate.

lHon. -J. IV. Klirwan : WVith all tite res-pect to you, sir, I hope you will pardonme for expressing the opinion that it israther a novel procedure in Parliamentfor tie Pres idenlt to express an1 rpiliiifncontnltC (li1 gte Length of a1 speech. OfTcourse as to thle relevancy of tlie speehOr not,. that is another Matter, and I)II.-sibly that is what you referred to whenyou were speaking of the length of tnyspqech. 1 sall quite con1fident that Withyour knowledge of parliamentary proce-(hire and lpractiee vou woulid be the lastto ilitentiomally curtiail the length of anyspeech On any Subject so long as it is rele-vant to the subject before the House; andI express my regret; if I have heenlirrelevant and can only say it arose out ofa desire to uphold the rights and privi-leges of this Chamber. Notice of myamendment was given on the onlyopportunity, I had. I went out ofmy way to give notice of this mat-ter, amid I sincerely trusted the Govern-

ieat. would see their way to the mnereformal matter of acknowledging our re-quest, and would hav-e in thre meantimepassed it through the Legislative Assem-bly. After what was done by LLC 0111V a1

Appropriation Bill. All stayeir. 2077

2078 Appropriation Bill; UNL. A iats

few days ago when we agreed to the ad-josurnmenl of a debate, and( after thestrong stand taken by you, sir, in thatmatter, the Government saw the error oftheir way, of their discourtesy and wantof tact towards this Chamyber.

The Colonial Secretary: On a point oforder. 1)o I understand the lion. memberis moving a motion for the adjournment?If so, hie is making a speech, andI if lie isallowed to make a speech will other mnem-hers be enabled to make a reply. or willthe mnotion he put without anyb fiody elsespeaking?

lion. J, If', Kir wan: Canl I say a fewywords?

,The President : AVill thle hion. memberIbe seated? I lake it the hron. memnber isniot moving the adjournment of the de-Ibate hul.. is moving an amendment to thesecond reading under Standing Order386. This is open to debate.

lion M. L. Moss: Have you the amiend-ment?

The President: Yes.lln J1. E. Moss: Will yon kiiidlv read

it?The Pre-sident - Will any(one second this

amendment?in. .f. 1'. Kirwan :Will voil excuse

me, I have not finished my speech.Hon. .1. L. Nioss: Onl a point of ordler.

Would you he good enough to read theproposed amendment, and if it is relevantI will say nothing , but if it is irrelevantI1 am going to ask you to ride it. out.

The JPresident read the amendment.Hon. Al. L. Moss: I submit that is no.

relevant to the question for this reason,that under Standing Order 185 it is pro-vided that an amendment mlay be movedto the question by leaving- out "miow" andadding "this day six mnonths." ThenStanding Order 136 states that no otheramendment may be moved to such a ques-tion except in the form of ai resolutionstrictly relevant to the Bill. It cannot berelevant to the Bill to do what the hon.mnember proposes. The only way to shelvethis Bill Ls to move as p~rovided in Stand]-ing, Order IS-5, either that thle previon;,question he put Or that the Bill be readsix monthis hence. If this; is niot done the!hion. iniimer must vole against the Bill.

Whoever heard oif an amendment of diatkind being moved?

lHon. .1. IV'. Kir wan : Where is theirrelevancy?

Hon. 31. L. Mloss: It does niot say as itshould say, this dlay six monthis. It is the(July- way to) do it, otherwise, ais I havesaidr thle hl. member must vote agaiiistthme Bill. Has anyonle ever heard of sucha thin,, ais the lion, member proposes

The President: T have ruled that theam1 endmiieiit is relevant to the Bill.

Hon. -11, L, Mloss: I bow to your ruling.Mr. President; I do niot wan1t; to movethat it be disag-reed with.

Tfton. T7. IV. Kirwan : I have onily a fewwords to add.

The President : The lion, member hasmade his speecht and moved his amend-Inenlt.

11021. .1. TV'. Kir wan: But . Mr. Presi-dent, I had niot finished when I was in-.terrupted.

The President; I thought thre lion mewm-her had finished. He mayv now proceed.

Debate reszmed.lion. J1. NV. KR WA-N : I must thank

youI. sir. tor 4werlookiuw tire misunder-standinl". I[ wish to point out that it israther mi fortunate that thIs mattershould have arisen in connection withthe notioni in which I have beenpersonally concerned. It is a mostunfortunate thing indeed, because itnoimght be thught by' some membersof this House that it is for that rea-sont that I have taken this action. I wouldIpoint our that it is not so. It was amotion) ofP this Chamber which was sentto the Legislative Assmbly. After itleaves this Chamber it ceases to belong taa private member: it is in exactl ,y thesame position as a mnotion oif the Govern-ment, and as suceh. I take it, this Housewill in tia inl I le positi on which you. sir,wVith] such dignlity iook uip the other dayin connection with I le Healthi Bill, a posi-tion which was recognIised by thie Housewhich supported it. If we do niot take asimifler stand on this point this will betaken as a precedent. What happens toone member may happen to auxone. itis a Case for the whole House. and I lookwillh emofidenee and] with hope to thre

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Apprpriaion ill: [6 FnausarT, 1900.jAl t98.09

members,, irresepetive of what views theymay hav-e onl the subject of the originalresolution I s. ay I look -with confidencefor their support in maintaining the standI have taken in the interests of the rightsand privileges of this House.

Hon, M. L, MINOSS (West) : Theamendment iinved by the lion, mnem-ber clearly' indicates exactly what theeffect. of Passing it xiii be." tile shelvinlgof the Loan Bill. It does not say that itshall be postpioned for one or two hoursor tio Monday or Tuesday b)ut it meansPostponing it to somie indefinite period;that, is to say, if 4.tic Notice Paper ofanother place is in suchi a congested con-dition that the matter cannot be con-sidered during the present session of Par-lianent no Loan Bill can be passed. Willbon. members say that is not what Mr-Kirwvan is attempting to doI I stated-when the hon. mnember moved the resoln-tioni about which no answer has been re-ceived from another place, that 'the Legis-lative Council was -attempting to dictateto another place as to the works policy ofthie Governmecnt. INo self-respecting Gov-ernment; would pennit this Cha-mber todictate as to what works should he nader-taken. When we know that by more than.an absolute majority in another place thatthis work has been passed--

Hon. A. C. Jeunkins: How do we kcnow'!Hon. AL L. 'MOSS: The lion. member

has probably read this inorniings TWestilnslralian, hut perhaps the hon. memberdoes not read that journal. My point is.this. This House has brought this troubleupon itself. The Governmzent went to thecountry some few months ago and madethis, and certain other works part of theirworks policy, and they were returned toParliament with a majority to carry outtheir programme,

Hon. .1. TV, Kirwan: That is not thepoint. The point is that this House hasbeen treated with contempt.

Hon. -11. Ta. MOSS: If the House hadbeen true to itself and not asked for thissnith and slap in thle face they- would nothave received it. I can well tell the hon.member what I told him before , and Itell him so again, that he has brought allthis trouble upon the House. The Hotsehas interfered with something it had no

tight to interfere withi. This Chambercan keep itself strong and[ will remain animportant part of the Legislature ofWestern Australia while it minds thatpart of the business it is intended to lookafter, buiL when it conunences to dictateto the Government as to what its works.policy should be, and particularly a partof that policy which fontus a potrtion ofthe schemie which the Premier indicated-it Bunbur v and which was in the Glov-crnof0is Speech at the begiingm (if theSsesion-

Mion. J1. TV, Kirwan : Whym (lid we notget an answer to that effect!?

Honl. At. L~. MOSS: Why sholid theyanswer; why should they deal with atmnatter in which we have no concern. If itis in tHe heazt interests of the country thatthe works. should be gone onl with, a fairinference to draw is that the Premierwould not have heen returned to powerwith a majority to carry out his worksprogramme. What better proof does thehon. member want for the early necessityto start this wvork thain the fact that morethan an absolute majority in another placehas sggreed to it, and when one makes anexamination of the division list one ean-not hut he stuck with the importance ofit. We find a large secton of 'the Labourparty strongly supporting the Gov-ernment, and two of the most eloquentspeeches made on 'the question were de-livered by members of the Labour party.The lion, memiber is entitled to his opinion.I complimented him on the speech hamade in moving his miotion, and I wantto respect his opinion, but I hold a dif-ferent opinion and I told him he wasdoing a wrong thing. We are asking theLegislative Assembly to give us a snub,and I do not wonder at this House hav-ig. received it. The position to-day isthis, not whether we did wrong in thepast but are we now going to make oneof the most fatal blunders that theHouise canl make and which will do moreto destroy its useftlness in the countrythan anything. else has ever done.

Mon. J. II1'. Kirwan: Then are wre tohave our _Messag es ignored I

Hon. M. IL. 'MOSS: The question isPast that. It is a much greater pointnow, and the aspect to be considered is.

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2080 Appropriation Bill: [CUCL]A ste.

that if the amendment moved] by thehon. member is carried the effect Of itwill be that the Legislative Council isgoing to prevent this Loan Bill fromgoing through.

lion. J7. IV'. Kirwan: Not ait all.Hon. Al. L. MOSS:. I will show that

it is, for until an answer coms to thatMessage this Bill is to be postponed,and as the Legislative Assembly says ithas nothing to (10 with the question andit will not answer ii, die responsibilitywill be thrown, on. this Chamnber of pre-venting that Loan Bill passing, and ofpreventing- the Loan Estimates passingand tying up the public works policy ofthe State. Is that a responsibility lion.members in this House want to assume 9It wil? be most detrimental to the bestinterests of the State. There is quite asufficient number of complaints aboutbad timles in Western Australia without,wanting to tie up the wvorks policy andpreventing the necessariy works -Oingoii. The result would be most disastrous.The Legislative Council should be care-ful, Thiere is no miember ini this Chambermiore anxious to stand up) for its rightsand privileges than 1, and no one wvantsto see this Chamber remain strong morethan I do, and I admit we are not treat-ed with that amiount of respect fromianother place to -which we are entitled.This, however, is not the occasion to dis-cuss that aspect of thle question. Withregard to the health Bill, if we hadthrown that out and if we failed to rein-state it the effect of doing- so wouldhave been nothing;, the effect of pre-venting this Bill and these Estimatesgoing through will be very far-reaching.

Ron. J. IT7. Kirwan: There is a prin-ciple involved.

H~on. Mf. L. MOSS: The hon, memberis trying to get a principle affirmed. Ifin attempting to do that he is going toimperil the position of this House andask the House to assume a position it isnot justified in taking up, he is doingsomething detrimental to the Chamberand which will he disastrous to thecountry. The Government will then beno longer entitled to make disburse-ments; it will not have Parliamentaryauthority at its back. The question of

thle Health Bill is a different matter; ifthe Bill had not been reinstated it wouldnot have been a mnatter of mnuch ino-nient. I will go with the lion, member tothis distance, that when tile Occasionarises so that there can be no reflectionon this Chamber, 1 wilt go with him tothe extent of insisting that proper re-spect shall be paid to this Chamber.But this is an unfortunate occasion fortile lion. memnber to invite this House to(1o what hie proposes, principally be-cause this subject of the dock was thesubject matter of the motion.

Tloiu .1. IF., Kirwan : That is not fair.Hoii. 11. L. M1OSS: The hion. member

(lid not -wait until I got to the end ofiny sentence, and hip does not know whatIWas g'oing to say. I will tell imii this,

that the fact that the dluck is concernediii this is nothing to ine in regard to thiscquestion. If it lieid been another work,the effect of which would be to hold upthe Loan Bill, because it was coiisideredthat the privileges of this House werenot pioperly' respected, I would not beprepaired to do it, .1 would have soughtanother and a different opportunity. Ithink lion. members with vest Parlia-mnentary experience will agr-iee withi methat it is a moost indiscreet action. Iagree that the House lies not been treat-ed with sufficient respect, but this is notthe oily occasion onl which such a thing,has been done. The hion. membher shouldhave singled out another opportunityand not taken the present one. Thereare persons in the State :nd in anotherplace also who want to seai this Chamberdestroyed. and this is an excellent oppor-tunity to play inito the hands of thosepeople, because they illf say we are in-terfering with something wivth a resultthat will be disastrous in its effect uponthe State. You have ruled, sir, that thehon. miember is in order. I bow to thatruling, although I hold very strong viewsin another direction.

Ron. WV. 'MALjEY (South-East) : Tbelieve it is wveil that this Houseshould let thle country as wvell as andtherplace know the position which it holdsz.Nw\4nerous resolutions have passed herewhich should have received in anotherplace miore consideration than they have

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Appopratin Bll: [6EBRARY 199.] Al stages. 2081

received. One resolution which had atremnendotus effect in the country, andwhich revoluitionised thme working of ourrailways, was a notion carried calling for-a Royal Commission to inquire into theworking, construction, and managementof the railways.

Hon,. Nl. L. Moss : The bon. meniberis not in order.

Honl. IV. MALEY: On pretty welleven, occasion wh-Ien this House comes intoconflct with another place, it is generallyiadmitted otttside that this Hotise is tight.Still, we have no couflt-nation nor havewe had tihat at ten tiomn fromt the 4o'-erl,-ment which t ireso lution fromt this Housedemmanlds. Ifw e were to hold Pt] theLoan Bill.- it wvould tiot be a very seriousmnatter. I would teach the couni-v andanoter p'lace a salutory lesson. I t isatnsing to hear some people talk aboutmillions of poundls a.. if they w ere shil-lings. and assist in the raising, of loans forexpendit itt- onl works in p-arts of the coun-tn- with which the)- are unfamiliar. -Manvof these memtbers who talk so g1ily-and I think these who talk most gliblyare the least informed ats to the value ofthe work and it., effect upon the country-wluitd( not be qite so -eager to ]pie ttpho rtrowed ione ev if they wete to get sucha lesson ais is co iita inedi it the lion. - m iii-her's ninetidineiti. We have been hot-row-ing atone'- pretty hteavily. and if we wet-cto htold up the Loan Bill it would causethe electors of this State to take the umat-I ea itt theii- torn hands and put men inParliament who would dip less into thepockets of the people and be less extr-ava-gant in tiieir exlpenditure on experimentswhich a,-e dangerotis at the present time.

The PRESIDENT: Is the hati. memberdirecting his retmar-ks to the question be-fate the House?

Hon. W. AfALEY': Yes. Thiere arelion, miembers who are seized with theconstitutional aspect of this question. Iwoutld like to hecar them onl the subject.I certaitilv will give my ea rnest supportto the amendment.

Holl. V. HAKEERSLEY ?East) :Ibeg to move -

Thai further consideration of thismnatter be po-st poned until 2.30 thisaternoon.

The Colonial Secretary :I would pointout that prorogation takes place at 3o'clock.

The PRESIDENT : The [notion is notseconded, therefore it lapses.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (onamendment) : With other hon. members,and as Leader of this House, I am quiteprepared to take a stand for the rightsand privileges of this House. But I thinkth is is a most extraordinary innovaition,to say the least of it. that tite bon. loa-bet should seize this occasion for fire-serving the righits and privileges of thisHouse. I regret that a certain amount ofhear hals beeni introduced into the debate.Onl anl occasionl like this, lion. nielilersshould 1)tt aside all thle little fepling ;which thev have had over the ciretlil-si a i ce that Ii lev earried at resoluct inill this House wich was lost in anotherplacue. The ' ylihould consider time niaticiexclutsively from thle point wihich thelion. ucaihe'- speaks of. that is, are theprivileges of t his House inl aily way in-frinz-ed ? I would( ask holl. members whobelieve in this H-ouse just as firiniv ats Id1( myself to consider. aire they- by car-rying a motion of this kind improvingthe position of this House? I say with-out hesitation they are not. If there is astand ito be taken, whether I am Leaderof this House or not when the occasionarises, I will not hesitate to take astand; btit I wvant to pick a better battlegrund than this. A resolution was cer-tainly forwarded to the Legislative As-sembl in regard to the Fremantle dock,together with a message asking for con-cuirrence therein. Notwithstanding n-hatthe lion, member has read out in regardto the President's ritling, no one goesstrictly on the wording of a ruing., Thatrtlilg as time hon. member read it utwas that all messages and Bills shouldreceive at reply' . Btrt one has only to castone's mind back to the last session, andto pr-eviotus sessions, and reflect howmanl*y resolutions have been passed bythis House. affirming some principle andasking for coneurzence-resolutious tow-hich we did not receive a reply, notout of any di-scourtesy. ibtt simply be-cause the bnsiness has to take its orderand is put onl the bottom of the Notice

[6 FEBRUARY, 1909.]Apl)ropriation, Bill :

2082- Appropriation Bill: [ONI. l tgs

Paper, and in a short session is neverreached, Although no formal messagehias been returned from the LegislativeAssembly. thle resolution was consideredaid] anl excellent opportunity was af-forded for the considerat ion of thatquestion last evening.

lion. .7. IV. Kirwan : We have noknowledge of that.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Yetthle lion. member with his own e veswatched the division. I think we oughtnot to go0 onl small gron ds. We ouigh t tohave something better than this whenwe raise a question of this kind with theother House. The lion, member says liehas no knowledge. Yet hie sa'v the divi-sion, and other members are perfectlywell aware of it. If this amendment iscarried, it means thle hamaging tip of thewhole of the Appropriation Bill, appro-priation of revenue and of loan, for anindefinite period; and why? Simply be-cause time did not permit before proro-gation of formally' sending a reply to acertain message forwarded froml thisHouse. The subject of that message wascertainly considered. It was considered,and fully debated, although not on themessage itself. The result of that debateis within the knowvledge of hion. mem-bers. After a full debate the vote per-taining to that message was carried by26 votes to 16. Not allowing for thosewho. we know, wvould have been in fav-out of thle item there was an absolutemajorit ' of the House.

lion. J. 1IV. Kirwan: What has thatto do with it? The question is, was a re-ply seat. to our message.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Letme say that the hion. member intimatedonly a very short time ago his intentionof moving such an amendment; and be-fore that time, the resolution had beendischarged from the Notice Paper of theLegislative Assembly, as "vere all out-standing motions.

Hon. J1. 11'. Kirwcan: Howv could Igive notice until the schedule was beforethe House?

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Ifthis amendmenit is carried, then theUpper House wvill have to take the re-sponsibility of hanging up the Esti-

mates, Loan and Revenue, for an in-definite period. Let me say I am as aix-ions as any oilier hon. member to retainthe privileges of this House. But on thisoccasion I do not think the privilegeswere interfered with in the least, anidif we take this stand, we must be pre-pared to abide by it. I know that lion.members have thle good of this House aheart. and] that their consideration onl anoccasion like this wvill be as to whetherthey arc injuring the House by carryinga a amendment of this nIatu re. Everylion. member w'ill agree that anl amend-nient of this kind will not do this Houseany good. I think if any protest werenecessary' , which I do not admit, then asufficient protest has now been made.

lion. J1. I V. Kirwan: Why should weabandon the position we took up, andsucceed in maintaining, in connectionwith the Health Bill? The position nlowis exactly identical.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Theposition is entirely different. It does notcome on all-fours at all. If there is aprotest necessary I think a very goodprotest has been made from this Cham-ber to-day on this particular question,and also onl the further question of thleHealth Bill a day or two ago. Even if itbe that the Assembly has interfered withthe privileges of this House--and I dtonot think they have-a sufficient pro-test w'as made I think, first onl theHealth Bill, and secondly, in the discus-sion that has taken place this morning.I trust the good sense of hion. membersto see that it would do no good to goainy further. Members have made astrong protest indeed, and one that Ithink wvill be listened to by the otherplace, and one that will prevent ally re-petition of this kind of thing in thefuture.

Haln. W. KINOSMILL (Metropolitan-Suburban) : ] think the speeches made onthis subject have dealt to too great anextent oti the effect this amendment, ifcarried, would have onl thle ultimate des-tiny of this House. I feel inclined toconsider the effect it would] have onl thecountry. I have never been afraid totake responsibility as a member of thisHouse or in any other way; and if the

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time allowed us a little more latitude. Ithink the House would he quite justifiedin carrying Air. Kirwan's amiendment t0-day; but there are other ways of attain.-ing- the object the lion, member aims at.As 'pointed out by -Mr. Moss and theLeader of the House, thle effect of theanieudiiieit if carried would be to hang-up not oly% [lie Loan Estimates, hut theRevenue Estimates.

l1in .1. I11If Hackett: All our salziries?Bon. W. KINOS1 MILL: As Dr. Thec-

tketi has so eloqluenl-lleu. .1. HT1. Hlackett Feeling-ly.Hon. W, . TNTOS119IffL: As Mhe lion

member has so eloquently and so fee linglyI-eniar-ked, we would fiave to gto vilhoilL{iut- sal ai es iII voitmon with all ittherswhol are trying to do the State od.Ithink that is an ext reihic rollrse to ;Il~ CieeI lie object wlhiclh several sit its are liiuiiiiat-the suspension for anl indefinite per-iod oif work on the Fremiantle dock; andit would be better if, when the Bill i.; iiiCommittee. the hon. member mnooed a re-quest for' anl aindnient to that eifect,though1- I most sa y thle tact that the Fre-mantle (lock occupies an y position in thisBill is sonmewhar hard to, realise. I thinkthat Mn Kirwan havinig xventilated with aconsiderable cleiree of latitude the g-rrev-aitee this House is lahouring underthroughi the non-receipt of a reply* to itscMessage. lie w-ould achieve the objecta-imedl at just as well it aii amiendmentwere Iilale in Comumittee to reduece [ileitemi by £500. At all events that amnend-mient if carried would not have thle effectof hangping up thle whole of thle husinesof the countirv. such as thle lpresenit alniend-nient of the lion. member would do ifcarried. As to thle opinions that havebeen expressed regardingu the relevancy of-the amitendroc mt. I thmink it is mo st thor-oughl v relevant '.in fact I think it is therelevancyv of thie aniendilnent that formsthe greatesi grievance oif those opposinsit.

Hon. G. RANLDELL (-Metrolpolitan) : IdO not wish to say mu llch of) this import-anit maltter. I need hardlyN reindne theHouse that I voted against the motion ofthe hion. mnember when the resolution wxassent to the Legislative Assenmbly. Ithought at the timie it was a breach of

puiblic faith, becaus~e anl Alit had heenpassed for the comstrucuion of the Fore-mnantle dlock, and I thought we weze notjustified in sendiiig the resolution to theother House. However, J. do hola theopimiion strongly, as strongly as Mr. Kir-wvan does. tha t we should have receivedaI direct Message froni tie Legvislative As-semibly in rellY to the Message which wentfiomo this House, aiid I cami see no circum-stances exteniating their actioii iii thisrega rd. With rega rd to [lie relevancy of[ile amiienimeiit, 'I think any one eaii vouchithat it is relevant. You, -Mr. President,

wae i u your rutling. aiid I lio]K y'ouwilu1t think it is impertinence con miy

part to sustain it. Standingr Order 180

Noother amendinent may he iitori'eto suchl quest ion except in) the for''m ofmi resoluition strictl v relevant to the Dill.."

'Il, herec is ill thmis B ill ;uill) ppiopriat ion forthie Frnictail e dock. 'Phceefore thleamendment iioved hr Mr. Kirwani , linstrict relevancy vto the Bill which containsill it anl i tetii 7oceCriiing tile clock. I dio

not thinik anyvone eiuld reasonably andjustlyv comtrovert this for a mioment ; but( tili k perh aps tiie hioin. m emiber Iinavit-taken uip the stand lie has. aid( knoiwing[lie effect wvlicli will follow fromn the smiq-pension olf this Bll, or [ile action that willhave to he taken-

lion. J. It'. Kirwan- Wtmv antici-pate delay oni tile part ofp thle Other House9?

Hon. 0. RANDELL,: There is anothermiethiod oF dealing wvith thle question, thatis to inure to strike out the item referringto the Frenmantle clock. But here is; an-oilier instance of (lie hasty legislation wetire aSKeod tip tiss e have had no timeto consider, the 'Bill and the itemis thierein,aimd there has been no oppo rtunilty ofdoinur it iii the course of an hmour orI twosince we -ot [lie Bill this miorning.' Itis ;I diswrace to lie Oovernmmeiit that theyshould allow thme affairs of thle country toget into such aI state. We have been wait-iug about for days and adjourningo forweeks for the convenience oif our- friendsin another place, and delays have takenpilace so that at thle last niornent we areliree to pass these very iniporatit mness-ores, several of hin at a nionient's noticeas,, it were. Before I sit down. I must

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2084 Appropriation Bill: [O NIJA tgs

say that I dissent altogether froml thedoctrine enunciated by Mr. Moss, becaus-it is quite contrary to the position hegenerally takes up in this House and whenboiled down comes to this, that the privil-eges of this House are to be insisted upononly when it happens to be most conveni-ent. I voted against the original reso-lution, because I thought it was an im-proper one; and in consideration of thegreat issues at stake, I am sorry I cannotvote for the lhon. member's aindiuenc.I have just learnt that it is- intended. toprorogue Parliament this afternoon.

The C'olonial Secretary: I mentioned itwhcn we were voting on the sewerage Bill.

lRon. G, RAN.DPLL: Mfy desire inrising was to express myself as clearly asI possibly could on the general positionbefore the House, and to support you,Mrt. President, in the ruling which youhave given to the House, and whichi Ithinik, is quite correct.

Hon. A. G. JENKINS (Metropolitan):I should like to explain my position in re-gard to the matter. When this amiendmientwas first moved, I had intended to supportit for reasons which thenr appeared to megood and valid, but after hearing the ar-guments adduced and the reasons whichI think most excellent why the amendmentait this stage should niot be supported, Ihave decided to vote for the second read-ing of the Bill. The position is this. Ifwe do adjourn this debate to a subsequentstage are we going to be in a better posi-tion? If wve would be . I would supportthe amendinent; but I believe we will notbe in a better position, because I under-stand that another place has practicallyadjourned until prorogation timie and willnot be in a position to consider any fur-ther Mlessages. T give way to no othermember of this House in my assertion inthe privileges of the House, but I think asufflcientlv strong protest has been madeby various members. Therefore. seeingthat the adjournment would have nopractical good effect, and that we wouldgain nothing. I intend to support thesecond reading.

ROn. E, M., CLARKE (South-West):I mun entirely in accord with 'Mr. K~irwanin this miatter. We have repeatedly pro-tested ag-ainst being kept absolutely idle,

as it were oin the list of the unemployed.to the eleventh hour, and then there is aitass of miost important work run uI)oniits, and timie and again we are told, "Thisis not thle Opportunity to protest againstit." I would ask the Leader of the House:What opportunity have we had of pro-testing before this ? There has beennothingZ before uts. We have been kept. inpractical idleness. I want it to be partic LI-larly understood that there is a mandatethat a big majority of the House is infavour of the vital question ; and thoughI would never be one to hang Lip) the workof the State, the qu1testion arises: WVhenis our opportunity to arise; when shall wvehave a chance of doing something? It maybe a bold statement, hut I venture to saythat the vryv position iii which we arenow tlhirust, itf nything,. is lowering ourclignity-. Imlportnlt work is continued onlthe assumption thiat the Legislative Court-cil is go0ing to swallow everything withoutan1 y consideration whatever-. 'Whatreater mnark of disrespect cani you show

to a person than ritot ro listen to hitu, "rallow him to consult his different partners,or allow him even to read a Bill? Hereis a mass of stuff we have niot the oppor-titnity of reading: arid I say: What couldlowecr our dignity more than to place usin the position we are now in? I wish itto be dcll understood that I au, niotgoing to vote for the measure. Mr. Kir-wvan has taken up a position that I admire,and I do not want to see hinm left alone.I amn pleased to) see he will niot. Time andagain, we have waited for an opportunityto show the country that we are alive, butthat opp~ortunity never occurs until thelast few hours of a session. I ami notgoing to hang up the business of the coun-tij,; far be it from me; hut as a matterof courtesy we should have had an ainswerto our Mlessa; and we can get it. andnow is the timie to mnake ourselves heard.Let us insist and see wvhether in future-we shall be treated with due courtesy andg.ivenj suffict time to consider importantmieasures and important busines4s of thiskind.

Hon. V. HAM1ERSLEY (East): I feelthis was undoubtedly an opportune occa-sion to bring a matter of this kiad beforethis House. I :am pleased it has been

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brought prominently before the Cot-acit.because it was only within the last dayor two that there have been remarksfrom every corner of the House to thesamte ttlfect that we should hare nioretulne to consider Bills brought before us,and that we should at least look out forourselves. And we also feel that theLeader of the House should be the firstto stand up for the rights and privilegesof the House, and to look after the dig-ails tif the House, even if some of thenir member., fail in that respect. it

is rid o'olous to ask us to deal wvith inas-ures oif this kiind so hurriedly, I wasaiwavs uinder the implessiuni that thisHouse was portion of the Legislature.and that we had1( sutneiing to do wiiththe Loverlimcnlt and conltrol of the coun-try; by the action of another place itseemis to me. however, that we are not.Halt. an hour ag-o we land not the faint-est idea of what was comning before the!HiMC. W~hat is before thi, Rouse itour

The PRPSiU)PJNT: The question be-fore the House is. ;"That this Bill hanotw rearl a1 second timle."

fIon. J. 11I. Kirwran : Onl a l)oint oforder. This is a money Bill, and I under-sta~ tant ill H discussionl on1 the seCon1dreading taf moniey* Bills members mardiscus~s a wide ratage of topics so loneas they have a general hearing on the'11testitin hc~oie 'he Hfouse.

The PR]SIDENT: What duacs- ihe hirm.nmember. want to askz?

lion. .J. IV. Kirw-an: I rose to a pointo f tiri4t01 ?

'Iotc I IIESI])ENT: What is the poitof oirder.

Hon, -J, TV, Kirwan: That the remarksof 1Mv Hamorsicy need not he restrictedin the discussion on this Bill.

The PRESIDENT: I muade the remarkI dlid because the lioni. 'Mr. Hameraleysaid he hardly knew "'hat question wasbefore tine 1House. I told him the qnes-tiota was the second readingl of this Bill.I spoke merely to assist him and didiaot wantr to check him in an%- way: Ihad no idea of doing so. hbnt simuply spokein order to direct his attention to thequestion under diseussion.

Hon, .1. IV. Kirwan: I beg your pardonfor misunderstanding you.

H-on. V. HAMERSLEY: It is onlyright that the fullest discussion shouldbe allowed on the second reading. of aBill for the expenditure of some threemillions of money. We know there hasbeen niuch discussion in the State re-cently as to whether many of the sal-aries provided for in the Bill should bepaid. I have not had an oppor 'tunity

ofging through these Estimates. Weshudbe given an opportuinity of say-

in,, whether, in our opinion, so mnuch ofthis mioney should be spent in salaries.Amape time hans been given 4ny anothrplace to discuss the question of 'lieFremtantle dock, which was sent fromthis House in the form of a Message,and I regret that MNessage is not beenreturned. These matters arc now beingsprunlg upon us and no time is given forhei r discussion as prorogation is to

take place this afternoon. There aIrc oneCor two other matters we aire asked tocomsider also. If the amendment ispushed to a. division I intend to supportit even although I WOnild be the only3cute to do so. hut I think it is my duty tothe ]House to take that action. It wouldbe with nao idea of tampering the workof the country that I would vote forthe amnendment. hut inl order to protestagainst time manner ita which this Houseis hemng treated. I sugg-,ested that thedebate shouald he adjourned until 2.30o'clock. iin order to u-ite another place

anoportunity of semading aMaawith regard it) the Fremantlhe dock bac~kto this Chamber.

Ho n. S. 51. HAY N ES (South-East) : Inview of the reanarks which have fallenfrotn the Leader of the House that pro-rogation is supposed to take place at .3o'clock T will he as brief as possible. Iam entirely in sympathy wi th theamendment moved hy Mr. Kirwan. Ial1so voted with the majority on theniotion coixctriing- the ' reim- n'. he doc)kwhich wwa sent to another pace. Tothat Message we have received no reply.Wh-1ile I 4ynmftpathise with this amend.

nuemat I do not think it is expedient forMr. Kirwvan to ilo mnore now thtan hehas done. and that is to enter a strongprotest against tine treatment top which

Appropriation Bill.- F6 FEBRU&RV, 1909.]

2086 Appropriatio?& Bill [CUCL]Al tgs

we haive been subjected. From i consti-flitonal point of view' there is no doubt-w e should receive anl answer to) all Mfes-sages wlii(li wev send to another place.N1.e are justified inl practicall ' postpon-ing~ the Estimates, but because Ihe issueswould be so serious if there were a lightbetween the two Houses over the Con-solidated Revenue and Loan Estimates,I will not support the amendment al-though 1 am in absolute sympathy wvithit, Thle protest we have entered by thle.11sioi, on the amenidment wvill have agood effect in the future. Looking atthe questioti from itsq higher constitu-I ional. aisects, we should not put thecountry to great trouble by a seriousdispute arising hetwveen thle two Housesover the Estimates. I joinl with otheirhon. members in p)rotesting against. theway ill whichl matters are rushied t.1ro011-hat the end of the session. linfortun-ately' there has heel) the samne cry inihis Chamber for many years past. Inthe interests of this House, and so thatwve max,' maintain its dignity, power, andposition, we shall in thle future see thatthere is proper time given for the dis-cuission of all Bills. That decision rests.with this House. It seems there is nota disposition noxv to take that stand.The Government are to be blamed for notbringing down measures earlier. I joinstronaly inl tile protest. as to thle way inlwhichl Bills are rushed thlroughl with-out being properly discussed, for the re-stilt of this has been so often proved byit being necessar 'y one session to amenda Bill passed the Previous one. I shallop~pose the amendment.

Hon. F. GONNOR (North) :I will bevieryv brief onl this question. The strongestpoint I wish tn put before members iswhat tile effect would be if we carry 'Mr.Kirwan's amienidment ;it would mean noLoan Bill and( no Estimates passedthrou~gh thle P arliamnent Of this counltrythis session. I have received anl opinionas to tihis froml a fairly reliable source,and there wonid be a series of Elack Wed-nesdays and nio salaries in connection withthe civil service. Unless the Estimatesare carried no salaries can be paid unlessin an illegal manner.

H~on. J. IF. Kirwan: Why anticipatediscourtesy on the part (of another Chiai-her.

Hon. F. CONNOR: The hon. memberknows myv reputation, and knows that-al-though I don not without necessity trailm1Y coat, still I was never one to 1"take it"lying clown. If he does not know thatlie does ii 01 knoi w il' reputation inl thleParliament Houses of this State. All I(,il say niow a~s I tIhink his remnark wxas un-ntecessary, 1 The position I have statedl isthie tine we shall he in if the aniendemientis carriedl. I admit 1. should like to carryit and would like to be onl thle same fight-ii side with the hon. inember who, inl the

debate onl this question., has shown hie isa credit to the nationalityv to which hie be-longs. One objection I have to passingthe amendment is that the result wouldhe altogether too serious. We have onlyuntil three o'clock to deal with the mattersbefore the House, andl if thle amendmentis carried we cannot put the Appropnia-tion Bill through, ever 'ything will be bongupt, and molneys paid a-way wvill be paidillegally; we cannot face that position. Ilike other hon. members, am in entiresymipathy, with M]r. Kirwan, and were itnot for- the fact that the circumnstancies donot warranit it andi that we cannot affordito take the risk, I wvould like to fight it outOn his -side, but thle result would be tooharmiful to the country.

Hion. J. ItV. Kirwan: It would not bethis House that would be responsible, butanlother place.

Hon. F. CONNOR: There is only oneexcuse for voting wvith the hon. member,and( that excuse is thai thle time has comnewhen we want to face another plaee andtell thenm that the existence of this Housedoes not dep~end upon their good will, Wefind that this motion before the House nowhinges not so munch upoii privileges orconstitutional question, but upon the factthat a section of this House is opposed toat vote contained in the Estimates, I holdthat should not be so.

H~on. .1. 1I'. Kirwuan :A number ofmembers who are thle best friends of thedlock are voting with mie.

Hon. F. CONNOR : I amn talking aboutWhether Ave are tintt going to do somiethingfor wrhich we will be very sorry after-

[COUNCIL.j All stages.

Apprpriaion ill: [6 FEBRUARY, 1909.] Al tye. 08

'Wa rds. It is not the timp on the seondreading of this Bill to introduce such aquestion. It is not the privilege of anlymiember to hang, up the second reading ofa Bill like this, because he is opposed toa certain iteni. Unless he is opposed tothe expenditure of the whole of the moneyin tlint Bill he should not have moved thismotion. I amn sorij I cannot vote withfihe lion, member because I ana with himin spirit,

H~on. C. SOMMLERS (Metropolitan):I sin in entire sympathy with 'Mr. lKirwan,and I protest against th~e discourteous wayaniother place has treated this House. Themiotion sent from this House has been putat the bottom of the N'otice Paper in an-oilier place, so that it should not be coni-sidered. A discussion, however, has takenplace there iii connection with the samesubject on the itemi in the Loan Estimates,T'his House took a constitutional way ofprotesting against this particular work,and it is entitled in all courtesy to ananswer to its Message. I protest thatthe Government have no right to anticii-pate that thle business. of this House willbe concluded by 3 o'clock this aftenoon,The Government put this amount of tegis-lation before us and says. "because wehave asked the Governor to mueet you at3 o'clock you will be discourteous to him ifvon are not then prepared to meet him."1The same thing has happened onl a pre-vious occasion, and I protest that it is nota fair way to treat this House. If itwvere not for the fact that the works wouldbe hung up I would go further than the1l0o1. member is prepared to go with hisamendment. At p~resent 1 intend to votewith Mtr. Kirwan, but on the other handI do not want to see the Government lputin a false position. I cannot give myvote without expressing my' disapprovalOf the proceedings, more p)articularly' atihe way the Government have treated thisMessage in not gi-ving tie Assembly theopIportunity of discussing it apart fromany other Bill. T he question discussedby the Legislative Assembly last nighthad some effect, but there was no necessityto treat uts with discourtesy. The nintionto postpone the consideration until 2.30,moved by Mfr. iersley, might havebeen accepted so as to give the Assembly

th (opportunity Of discussing the questionOf sending a Message to us; that wouldhave been thle proper procedure to follow.

Hon. R. D. M1cKENZIE (North-East) :I intend to support the anmendimentwvhich has been moved by Mr. Kirwan.I think the time has arrived wvhen thislhouse should assert its iihts and privi-leges in sue other way than by lprotest-ing. For instance, I have been ini theCliaiber on the last day of tie sessionLfor sonic years. and] it has been cuiSts0n-ary for a good many muembers to riseand protest 4gainkst the IUnhe-r Of Billsbroughlt down onl tile last day, andaigainst the amount of business we areexpected to swallow and rush th Ii roughand then after having protested theycalmly go to sleep and await the nextsession to enter another protest. Thetime has come when wve miust assert therights and privileges oft the House. Onlythe other day we asserted our rightsand privileges by voting a certainlmeasure oit(, slid onl that occasionwe did not have the justificationL wehave now, because then wve had a Mes-sage from another place intimating thatthey had received the Bill?' and Owing toit being out of oider they passed it outand substituted aiiother Bill in its place.Onl this occasion a Message has gonedown from this House asing for theconcurrence of another place. and it isput deliberately at the bottom of theNotice Paper, and for all we know it isthere still. No couirtesy has been givento this House by replying to that Mes-sag-e. If this amendment is carried dieresponsibility rests wvith thle Govern-nieiit. I quite agree with 'Mr. Sonmmerswhen lie says what right have the Gov'-ernmei to anticipate rthat we are goingto close thle bl~Siness of the sessioni by3 o'clock. The Assembly finished theirbusiness at about 7 o'clock this morningand they jump to the conclusion that wecan put everything through in the shortspac:e of two or three hours. In spite ofthe state of affairs that may be broughtabout if this amendment is carried thisHouse should assert its rights andprivileges. I take -it there aresome nieans by which the Govern-ment can postpone thle prorogation

Approprialion Bill. All s&tges, 2087

2088 Appropriation Bill: [ONI[. l lqe

of Parliament, consider this Mes -sage and send its a reply to-day; at allevents it is a remarkable thing to methat hon. mnembers can get upi and statethey are in accord with the amendmentwhich has been moved, but that theyare going to vote in an opposite direc-tion. The effect of this amendment miaybe somewhat serious to the country, butit will certainly be a lesson to the otherHouse to treat us in a different mannerin the future. If we are going to takeinsults from the other Chamber I quitenagree with other hion. members that theabolition of the Upper House is withinmeasurable distance. There will be nojulstification for our existence, if we goonl as 'we have been going during the lasttwo or three years. The occasion is onewhen we should insist on the otherHouse giving, to us some reply to ourMessage. As I have said the responsi-bility will be with the Government ifthis amendment is carried. I shall votewith the hon. mlember who moved theamendment,' and if it is carried I claimthere will be no responsibility on myshoulders for the serious difficulties tha-tmight follow. -

Amendment put and a, division takenwith the followrinz result:-

Ayes .. . . 6Noes .. . .14

Majority against .

Hon. T. F. 0. BrflnagHon. V. HamersleyHon. . MI. Kirwan

Hon.Hon.Hon,HOn.Hon.Hon.HOn.

E, lt ClarkeJ. D. ConnoliyF. ConnorJ. W. HackettS. J. HaynesA, C. JenkinsIV. Kilasmill

Arts.

aHon.

Hon,

Hon.

Hon.

Hon.Hon.HOn.

w. MalayC. SommersR1. D. McKenzie

(Teller).

.1. W. LangsfordR. LaurieAl. L, Moss$B. C. O'Brien0. Randell0. ThrassellS. Stubbs

(Teller.Amendment thus negatived.Question (second reading) put and

passed.Bill read a second time.

In -ommitteCe.Clauses 1. 2-agreed. to.,Schedule.; A. B. C-aareed to.

Schedule D:Hon. J. W. IRWAN: A statementr

had just come to his knowledge whichiseemed to demand from him a personal'explanation. It wai in reference to the.item "Frem~antle dock and slipway."'He had been asked before the House metwhether he would proceed further in theCouncil concerning the Frenmantle dock,the question having been directed to himas one interested in having brought for-ward the discussion onl the resoluition. Hehad icidentallyv mentioned that so far asthle (lock was concerned nothing would he-(lone by him.

The CHAIRAN: I would point ouitto the hon. mitember tha-t lie is speakingoin an item not in the Bill.

floa. J, W, KIRWAN: It was in theLoan Estimates which we were toldwent with the Bill. IHowever. it wasreally more by way of a personal ex-planation that- he "was speaking. Hemerely, wanted to say that this morn-ing lie had been careful to avoid thecdock question, as such, and was merely'Nreferring to the resolution oin a pointof principle. Hle had recog-nised thatthere was ail absolute majority in theLegislative Assembly in favour of pro-ceeding with the dock and that Chamberwould have to take tie responsibility. Hehad made these few explanator 'y remarksin order to avoid mi sunderstantding

Schedule pnt and passed,Preamble, Title-agreed to.Hill reported without amendment; the

report adopted.

Thirdi reading.

The COLONI1AL SECRETARY mov-ed-

That the Bill lie now read a thirdim r.

Hon. V%. HAMER SLEY: For want oftime to look more closely into the mat-ter he was very much mixed over thesemioney Bills. Were the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for this vear in.eluded in this Bill?

The Colonial Secretary: Yes.Hon. V. HAMENSLEY: Was the im-

pr-ession a correct one that a large num-ber of road boards were cut out from.

[COUNCIL.] All ataqes,

Asset t Bils: [6 FEBRUARY, 1909.] Meiropolitan Sewerage. 2089

any chance of obtaining any funds dur-ing the year? According to the RevenueEstimates a large number of theseb3oards which had received supplies in1907-8 were not down for anything in1908-9.

The COLONITAL SECRETARY: Per-haps the hon. member would defer thepoint until a better opportunity shouldarise in a few minutes, when the ExcessBill was before the Committee.

Question put and passed.Bill rmad a third time and passed.

ASSENT T 0 BILLS (5).Message fr-om the Governor received

and read notifying, assent to the follow-ing Bills:-

Land and Income Tax.Bridgetown-Wilgarrup Railway.Upper Chapman Railway.Midland Junction Municipal

Boundaries.Fines and Penalties Appropria-

tion.

BILL-METROPOLITAN3\ SEWER-AGE AND DRAINAGE (TEMPOR,ARY).Received from the Legislative Assembly

and read a first time.

Second Reading.The COLONI- SECRETARY (Hon.

J. D). Connolly). in moving the secondreading said: This Bill, as I explainedin an early part of the sitting, I havebrought forward before the other inea-sumes because it is an entirely newBill. It has not previously this sessionbeen before the House, and as it issomewhat lengthy in one sense, forit contains some 40 clauses, I thoughtI would afford members an opportunity,if I move the second reading nowv, toread the measure during the adjourn-ment, and allow the second readingto continue after the other 'Messageshave been considered. Although theBill is apparently a lengthy one itreally only consists of a number ofmachinery clauses, sufficient to enablethe Government to deal with house

connections in connection with themetropolitan sewerage now under con-struction. It will be remembered therewas a Metropolitan Water and SewerageAct passed in 1904, which gave thenecessary powers in connection withthe sewerage scheme now being carriedout. By that the Works Departmentwere given the power to enter andmake connections as might be deemednecessary when the sewerage schemewas complete. That sewerage schemeis not completed yet, but it is advancedsufficiently to allow connections tobe made to the 'houses, that is in thedistricts of Perth and Fremnantle. ThatBill, however, has not been proclaimedbecause it was passed somewhat hurriedlyat the end of a Parliamentary session,and the promise was given by theGovernment, of which 'Mr. K-ingsmnillwas a. member, that it should not beproclaimed until Parliament had beengiven a further opportunity of con-sidering it. There was not time toreconsidler the whole question this session,but in order to afford the necessarypowers to make entry and make connec-tions. this Bill haes now been introduced.The measure, as will be seen. is limitedin its operation to the end of this year.It is not the same Bill that was originallyintroduced to the Legislative Assemblyfor all the controversial matter hasbeen cut out. If members have anydoubt that it goes beyond the scope ofa machinery measure they have thesafeguard that it will only be in operationuntil the end of 1909. One reason whyit is only made operative until the endof this year is that a comprehensivemeasure, covering this matter, will bebrought down in the coming session,and the House will have an opportunityof dealing with it. Part 2 of the Billdefines the area over which the Ministermay exercise control. That area corn-prises Guildford, Midland Junction, Perthand its suburbs, Claremont, Cottesloe,and the Fremian ties. The area is exactlythe same as that defined in the Scheduleof the 1904 Act. It is not proposedduring the currency of this Bill to Conwmnence sewerage works either in MlidlandJunction, Gunildford, Claremont, or Cot-

Assent to Bills,

2090 Mfetropolitan Sewerage [COUNCI L.] n ring il

tesloe. Part 3 deals with the construc-tion and maintenance of works. Itenables the Government to enter uponland for the purpose of constructingmain drains or subsidiary drains forreticulation or house connections. Itprovides that in the course of con-struction any damuage done to anystreets shall be repaired. It imposesupon the Government the necessityfor -keeping sewers properly cleansed.Clause 14 enables the Minister to callupon the owner or occupier adjacentto each sewer to connect. If this Bill isnot passed the sewerage works, so faras they are constructed to-day, wilbe idle ; money spent up to date -will

be giving no return. Connections cannotbe made unless the Minister has powerto enter. Th'le works arc sufficientlyadvanced to enable these connectionsto bc made.

Hon. C. Somemr If the sewers area mile from the residence will the occupierhave to pay for the considerable costof connecting up with the sewer ?

The COLO.NIAL SECRETARY:- Hewill have to pay for connections ifthe sewer passes along the street inwhich he resides.

H071. C. sSommers: Clause 14 saysthat as soon as a sewer is ready for usethe Minister may order the owneror occupier to construct drains andfittings to connect with the sewer.

The COLONKIAL SECRETARY: Withregard to this matter I will give the hon.member detailed information when weare in Committee on the Bill. It ispurely a machinery measure, and Ifeel sure I shall be able to satisfy membersin Committee that there need be noalarm of anyone being unjustly treated.Clause 10 apportions the cost of theConnections as between the owner andthe occupier, the former paying thecapital cost and the latter paying,in addition to the arranged rent, eightper cent. for the expired portion ofhis tenancy of such expenditure. Part 4gives power to the Minister to makeregulations dealing more especially withthe control of sewers and drains, regula-

ting the nature of house connections,and the licensing of plumbers. It isnecessary the 'Minister should havethis power. Part 5 comprises certainclauses dealing with officers, notices,offences, and proceedings necessery toascertain the ownership. of land. Theseprovisions have been taken word forword from the 1904 Act, and thereare certain amendments arranged afterconference with the representatives ofthe Perth City Council. I understandthis Bill is quite acceptable to thatbody. It h~as also been shown to andaccepted by members of the metro-politant area. over which the Bill operates.

Hon. W. Malay: Do you proposeresumng a site for a sewage farm ?

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: No.I beg to miove-

That the Bill be nw read a. second time.

Hon. Mi. L. MOSS (West):- During thelast few sittings it seems to have beenin consonance with the fitness of thingsthat there should be a protest enteredagainst the methods adopted in gettingus to agree to legislation at the hatmoment. In ordinary circumstances Ishould never permit a second readingto be passed without ample time beinggiven to examine the provisions, butI can readily see that what the Ministersays in this case is practically correct.and that is that it is necessary to getthis legislation through so that thework can be proceeded with. Theonly complaint I have to make is this,that it must have been foreseen long agothat this House has been adjourningfrom time to time, because there hasbeen no work to go on with and thatthis measure might have been sent downwhile the other House was consideringthe Estimates. We must look at itfrom the standpoint of the work itself,and if it is so far advanced that it maybe necessary to enter private propertyto make connections, I for one shall notraise any further protest against themeasure. In all probability Parliamentwill meet again in June or July next, andno doubt a proper and comprehensivemeasure dealing with this matter andparticularly thc rating aspect will be

oad Drainage Bill.

Metopoita Seerae 6 FEBRUARY, 1909.] and Drainage Bill. '2091

submitted to us for consideration. Iam therefore- going to support theMinister on the second reading andthrough the other stages of the Bill,but it is necessary that one or twothings shiall be pointed out whereI think greater consideration couldbe given to the more comprehensivemeasure when it comes down. In thefirst place, the last proviso of Clause 5states that the Minister shall do aslittle damnage as possible in the carryingout of the powers vested in the Ministerunder this B3i11, and compensation mustbe given uinder the Public Works Act,1902. 1 hope the Government willrecognise that they are mnorally boundto see that the provisions of that provisoshall extend to damage already donein connection with the works. I amnot satisfied that the public aroundPerth have been treated on a fair basisas far as the work has progressed. Upto date the only satisfactory authorityfor the construction of these worksis provided by the Public Works Act,Section 11I of which says : "The Governor,by Order in Council, may authorisethe Minister to undertake, construct, orprovide any public work subject as torailways to Section 96 and such authori-sation shall be deemed an authorityto such Minister by and uinder this Act."Pursuant .to the power contained inthat section, by the mere publicationof an Order in Council the Minister forWorks is vested with the proper statutoryauthority to carry on the works, butthere is no word in the Public WorksAct compelling the Cjovernmnent to givecompensation for entering property. Itwas intended in the Water Works andSewerage Act of 1904 to give compen-sation to people, but that Statute wasnever brought into operation, becausethe second clause provided that it wasto be brought in by Government pro-clamnation which was never published.Although it was intended to give fullcompensation to people I regret to saythere is not that fairness and equityshown by the Government whichI think we should reasonably expect.It is only a fair proposition if, in thecarrying out of a p)ublic work individuals

are injured thet. the country shouldassume the responsibility and compen-sate those people. It does not affectmy district but it has affected seriouslysome people in Perth and althoughI always regret havinig to mentionmatters which I have been connectedwith especially,-I happen to knowwhat I am speaking about-it is onlytwo or three mionths since that a quAtionof law was raised in two cases in theSupreme Court that uinder an Order inCouncil publihed under this sectionof tlie Public Works Act, the Governmentwere not liable to pay for what damagewas done. I hope the Minister will tellthe House that although this provisoonly applies from the time the Actcomes into force, the Government willrecognise the equitable and just liabilityto compensate those people in Perthwhose property has been injured in thecarrying out of these works. If timepermitted I would move an amendmentto make that perfectly plain but I willba satisfied with the Minister's assurance.The Bill has come to us very late, butthat is no reason why ire should preventit going on the statute book. Thiespeedy completion of these works isa matter of great importance to Perthand Freman tle, especially as it has ad-vanced to that stage when it is necessaryto go on private property. I agreethat Clause 14 may act oppressivelyagainst owners of property. I do notknow whether there are tenements asfar as a quarter of a mile from a sewerbut it would nearly ruin an individualto shoulder the responsibility of makinga connection over such a distance.No person should be compelled to havehis ])roperty connected with a sew&erunless that sewer was within a reasonabledistance. If the distance was great,then another sewer should be put downin a convenient place. I recognise,and every member must recognise,that this legislation has come late in thesession, but it is an absolutely necessarymeasure. though temporary in its charac-ter and can only remnain in force untilnest year. It is one's duty to support theMinister in endeavouring to get the Billon the statute book.

Metropolitan Sewerage

2092 Metropolitan Sewverage [COUNCIL.] n ring il

' Hon. J. W. KIRWAN (South); I feelvery sympathetic towards those membersin this Chamber who have protestedstrongly against this Bill being broughtforward without having been given suffi-cient notice previously, and withouthaving been given time to sufficientlystudy its provisions. The measure wehave here is very lengthy ; it contains 43clauses. Some of its provisions are nodoubt familiar to some of the membersrepresenting the metropolitan district,but to a member such as myself, thewhole thing is absolutely foreign, and itwould be utterly impossible for any mem-ber who had only received a Bill of thischaracter a very short time, to be able tomaster its provisions and give an intelli-gent vote upon it. The only thing we cando under such circumstances, is to recog-nise the extraordinary position in whichthe country is placed at the last moment,and that it seemns to be absolutely neces-sary to bring forward a measure of thiskind. We have to accept the personalassurance of the Minister on this matter.I have spoken to some of the Ministers onthis Bill, but at the same timne I wish toprotest as strongly as I canl against themethod that -is adopted, and a methodwhich, wherever it is possible, should beavoided. It is farcical to be a member ofa Chamber, and to have to vote upon ameasure, the details of which it is utterlyimpossible for one to grasp, because suffi-cient time has not been given to studyit. I am in sympathy with Mr. Randell,Mr, Hamersley, Mr. Stubbs, and othermembers in their protest against legis-lation of this kind being brought forwardwithout previous notice. The Govern-ment should take steps by which measuresof this nature should be 'sent to us muchearlier, so that we may be able to gothrough them, and thoroughly. mastertheir details, before passing an opinionon them. I am glad to hear Mr. Mossspeak as he has done, because he seems toknow something concerning the details.lie no doubt has had a longer time to con-sider the matter. It is more onl the per-sonal assurance of the Minister that oneis inclined to vote for the second reading.I wish to add to what lies already beensaid, tit this kind of thing can go too far,

and one of these days we shall be com-pelled to take a strong stand.

Hon. C. SOMMERS (Metropolitan):As one-of the members representing themetropolitan area--this Bill affects myconstituency-I am not at all satisfiedthat the works are sufficiently forwardin the district proposed to be drained towarrant us rushing this Bill through. Iwould like more information on thatpoint at any rate. With regard to thequestion of compensation, it is wellknown that action has been taken,particularly in regard to properties inBeaufort Street where a considerableamnount of damage was done by the con-struction of a sewer, and where theGovernment refused to pay compensation.It is a very serious matter that damagethrough the construction of public worksshould fall so heavily on an owner. Inview of the fact that Parliament willmeet again in June or July, I do not thinkit is wise that this Bill should be passed atthis late stage of the session. I intendtherefore to oppose the second reading ofthe Bill. I presume the area about to beconnected can only be a smnall one in thevicinity of the Claisebrook drain. How-ever, as far as one canl see, the works arenot sufficiently forward to warrantputting householders to the expense ofpaying the costs of these connections.Nor do I think that the necessary fittingsfor the connections are in the State readyfor use. At a recent meeting of the manu-facturers with the Premier, complaintswere made that no plans and specificationswere in existence, whereby these mnanui-facturers would haye the opportunity ofgetting in a6 plant to manufacture thesefittings in the State. The meeting wasan important one indeed, and, I supposethere were 100 contractors present, andthey expressed "their dissatisfaction in nounmeasured terms. Seeing that thequestion is so important and that thereare so many empty houses, and owners ofproperty are in such distress in many in-stances, I do not think it is a6 work weshould press forward at this juncture. Iam not satisfied that the area which canbe connected warran is our passing theHill at this stage. I shall reserve to my-self the right to oppose the Bill later on.

and Drainage Bill.

Excess Bill. [6 FEBRUtLARY, 190'9.J IWorkers' Compensation. 2093

Hon. C. iANIDELL (Metropolitanl)moved-

That the debate be adjourned until Paes-day.

The Colonial Secretaryq: But wve pro-rogue this afternoon.

.Hon. G. RANI)ELL : Then [ think it isindecent, that is all I have to say. Totest the feeling (If the House I Will pressmy motion.

lion. S. STUB 3S : I second it.Motion (adjourned) put, and a divisionl

taken with the followving result:Ayes .. . .15

Noes .7. .

Majority for

li-on.liJon.thon.lion.lion.lio.1Hon.Io.

A

T. F. 0. DrlnrngeE. M. ClarkeV. 1lamersicyS. J1. HaynmesA. 0. JenkinsW. Xingsndll.1. W. LangrfordW. bialey

ND. ConnollyCon norT'. Glo'vreyW. Hiackett

$

YES.I Hall.

Hall.[fool.Honl.lion.l'ion.'Hor.

CBS.Maet.His i.

i Hll.

IV.a.0.C.S.G.Ri.

R.NI.'I.

CatlsC. O'BrienRandallSomimersStubbsTb rosen ID. McKenzie

(Teller).

LaurieL.. 1mss

WV. KIrWait(Teller).

Motion thus passed, second readingpostponed.

BILL-EXCESS 1907 and 190$.All Stages.

Received from the Legislative Asem-bly and read a first time.

Second Rleading.The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Hon.

J. D). Connolly) in moving the secondreading said: It is only necessary for meto say that this is the usual Excess Billbrought down each year.

lion. C. Randell : Unfortunately.The COLONIAL SECRETARY: It

cannot be avoided. Lately this Bill hasbeen brought down each year, hut duringthe session before [st I introduced a Billcovering some four or five years. [n theRevenue Estimates von will see anl itemfor Treasurer's, advance. That is givento the Treasurer to pay sums which hiecannot foresee. Wh'len he pays thesesums you will see the way the money has

(72)

been expended. Although that anio,,nt.lhas; been passed it has not been appro-priated by Parliament, and so this Bill isin accordlance wvith the Audit Act tolegalise the expenditure which Parijainutntlias already aUthorised. I mov

'That the Bill be now read a econd timte.Questinn put and passedi.Hill road a second time.

it Committee, Ce.H~ill Passed through i omittc wvith-

out debate, reported without aniend-niont, the report adopted.

Read a third time and passed..

BI1LL-LOCA-L COURT ACT AMENI)-MENT.

Assembly's Mesrsage.Message from the Legislative Assembly

giving reasons, for not agreeing to twouof the amendments made by the Councilnow considered.

In Committee.On motions by the Colonial Secretary

the amendments were not insisted on.Resolutions reported, the report aclop-

ted.

BI.Lr.WOUKERS' COMPENSATIIONACT AMEN])MENJT.Assembly's9 Amendmnent.

Amendment madle by the LegislativeAssembly now considered.

it committee.Clause 2, Strike out the clause.'T'he CO LON [AL SECJ{ 'IAI tY

moved-That the amendment be agreed toThis wvas not a material amendment.IHon. S. STUBBAS: 'The Leader of the

House was probably correct in sayingthat this was a sanaI I amenmnnt. butit was a farce our rushing through allthis legislation in a few mnoments.

The CHAIIRMAN : These remarkshad better be made onl the report stage.

Question passed, the Assermblv's amend-ment agreed to.

Resolution reported: the report adoj,ted.

(Sitting; suspended troln 1.4.5 p.m. to2.30 p.m.)

2094 (%nqyratndat iwv n. [UJCJ[t sen , )

CONUGRAT2ULATORY REMAR KS,CLOSE OF SESSION.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Hon.J. 1). Connolly): As our labours for thesiession are now ended, it only remainsfor me to once more congratulate you,Mr. President, on the able and dignifiedmanner in which you have carried outyour duties as President of this House,and to express to you on behalf oflion. mnembers, and on my ownrv behalf,our best thanks for the forbearance youhave always shown to us in carrying outthose duties; and in doing so I miayalso be allowed on behalf of the Houseto express our best thanks to the Chair-man of Committees, to congratulate himon the very able and efficient mannerin which hie has carried out his duties,and to thank him on behalf of the Housefor the kindness he has shown throughoutthis and former sessions to hion. members.I also desire to thank the officers of thisHouse for their kind consideration duringthe past session.

Hon. J. W. HACKETT (South-West):With great pleasure I second the remarksof the Colonial Secretary, though perhapsnot in regard to the use of the word

forbearance,' because we have had aisession almost without friction.

The PRESIDENT.1 : 1 thank theLeader of the Rouse and the lion.member for their kind expressions ofcompliment.

His Excellency the Governor enteredthe Chamber at :3 o'clock, and coin-manded the attendance of members ofthe Legislative Assembly, who accor-dingly arrived with their Speaker.

ASSENT TO IrLLS.Mr. SPEAKER presented the annual

Appropriation Bill, to which His Excel-lency assented.

HIS EXCELLENCY also gave assentto the following Bills of the Session, inaddition to Bills assented to previously:-

An Act to amend the Wines,"Beer, andSpirit Sale Act, 1880.

An Act to authorise the construction ofa railway from Nannine to Meeka-tharra.

An Act to unable the purposes ofReserve, York 'J'own Lot 211t, to bechanged.

An Act to enable the purposes ofcertain Permanent Reserves to buchanged.

An Act to vest certain lands in theMunicipality of Fremantle in theTrustees of the Fremantle Cemetery.L

An Act to constitute the Bunbury.Harbour Board ; to regulate theappointment of the zneinbers. of theBoard . to define their powers andauthorities ; and for other purposesincidental thereto.

An Act relating to Vermin Fencingand the destruction of vermin, andfor other purposes incidental thereto.

An Act to further amend the FireBrigades Act, 1898.

An Act for the Closing of certain. Roadsor portions thereof, and to validatethe Closing of certain Roads.

An Act to further amend the HealthAct, 1898.

An Act to apply out of the ConsolidatedRevenue Fund and from moneys tocredit of the General Loan Fund,the swin of Four -H undred andNinety-two Thousand seven hundredand Forty-seven pounds to the.service of the year ending 30thJune, 1909.

An Act to ainend the FremntleMunicipal Trameways and ElectricLighting Act, 1903.

An Act to authorise the raisaing of astwn of One million four hundredand forty-five thousand pounds byLoan for the construction of certainPublic Works and for other purposes.

An Act to establish Limited Partner-ships.

Aim Act to confirm certain Expenditurefor the years ended the 30th day of.Jwie, One thousand nine hundredand seven, and thc :30th dlay ofJune, One thousand nine hundredand eight.

An Act to amiend the Local CourtAct, 1904.

An Act to amend the Workers Coin-pensation Act, 1902.

1COUNCI L.]L Asseal to Bill.i.

Proo gl in peeh. FERURYl90.~ Roads Bill. 2095

I'llHQ n:40ATION SPEECH.His EXCELLENCY, in closing thle

session of' Parliament, wais pleased tospeak as follows.

31 F. PRESIDENT ANDw HONOUBRABLE(-ENTLEMETN OF THE LEGISLATIVECo UNCIm-

3M11: SI'EAFER AND GENTLEMEN OF THELEGTsLATIVEF AssEmBLY-

It gives ine pleasure to be enabled torelease you (rein your arduous duties, andiii doing so I. trust that thle result of yourdeliberations will be productive of goodt0 all Sections Of thle coMMnwity.Mn. SPEAKER AND GENTLEMEN OF THEF

LEG.;TirLATIVE ASSEMBLY-I thank you in the namne of His Majesty

for the liberal Supplies which you havevoted for the administration of Publicaffairs.

I also thank you for approving of thefinancial proposals of my advisers, andtrust that the passage of the Loan Act,by which the necessary funds will beraised for important lpublic works, willlead to the development and prosperityof the State.

MR. PRESIDENT AND HONOURABLEGENTLEMEN (OF THE LEGISLATIVECOUNcIL-

MR. SPEAKER AND GENTLEMEN OF THE

LEOISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Thle Legislation which you have passedthis .Session-in particular the anthorisa-tion of the construction of Rtailwavsbetween 'Naanine and M3eekatharra,Bridgetown and Wilgarrap, and alongthe Upper Chapmaen Valley-should ma-teriatlyv assist the development of theMining and Agricultural Industries of tileState.

[ note also, with pleasure. that, youhave passed an Act constituting VerminBoards, to (leal with the danger of arabbit invasion ;the Bunbury HarbourBoard Act, constituting a local governingbody for the Port of Bunbury ; theLimited Partnerships Act,. enabling thosewho are willing to support any co-partner-ship venture to limit their risk ;andother mneasures of an urgent anti usefulcharacter.

I now declare this Firsit Session of theSeventh Parliament of Western Australia

proroguod unti W1ednes.day, the .20th dayof June, 190,

'Jhf Sev.3ion then r cosed.

Tcoistati 'e tlsscmbl ,Sal ?irdaty, 6th February. 1.90,9.

PAGEQuesin-s: Stae Battery, Mlessenger's Patch ... 2099

Sewerage Works at Burswood..........29Ba ttery (Publ ic) at Menzies...........2096RIdLiwsy% Cerringe Peonr, closing.......... 21M,School of 3Iine.s, Kalgoo0rlie... ........ 20M

bills:; Misuiespal Corporationis Act Aiuelmeut.JR. ..... -. .- . ..... 2095

Boals Act j(1902) Amiendment, is. 1., 2095Workers' Comupensation Act Amsendmsent, 3a. 2006Limited Partisenships, Council'so amendment 11097

Assent to Bills..... ..................... 20R7Paper presen3ted .. .. - .. .. 2W9Private Business, a r'equest ..... 2097Couipliusestsry renmarks, clobe of session .. 2007Prorogativo..................2099

I'( Speaker took (lie ('hair at 10..3ioiii. Hd real I tlYPW-.

H l.-M~Ut'IPA I, t'OINRAi'FONSAl'C M1116h). AMEN PMEXT.

111 rodliedi bY the I'reliurl 11341 rend aliist tilic.

INIi. ROAPS ACT (19102). AMENI)-

lie'! lReaidiig.

PlIIV IX [ISTE K FOR W() 'K S (]loll.j. Price) '[TIl ihect (it' hiiiging- ilmwsitii pill aIt this sflme Ias; ill Order thai41ilril t reces -s ii 11 he Virciglateul

Slt.The Bill cusul~inupu se-veral 1).1vision,~ wlich Ilie I h4aitrlit too liV tii itiprive-iiii'ii ,jyi iliusse il iii lexislihi k\ct. The3y

I ii iev flie result (it Ili i'xpierieiiceet.)! iii( depioiitiliert ill dililti wiuit I lieseiuoaI bouari&. F'1- itllUeIV. tle B-ill gaveIll hi-' 1)1 iii, oe lP to dec[ lareii a Speia~tl 7tretiiiisithe Iheir respec-tive dis6ts-icts fur theluuonPj) - ot stikiii,, spvicih rte wiliit

Prorogaition Speech. -6 PEBRUARY, 1909._