public hearing 9/21/2021 page 1

PUBLIC HEARING 9/21/2021

www.alaris.us Phone: 1.800.280.3376 Fax: 314.644.1334ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES

1 FRANKLIN COUNTY PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION

2 FRANKLIN COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER

3 SECOND FLOOR COMMISSION CHAMBERS

4 400 EAST LOCUST STREET

5 UNION, MISSOURI 63084

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11 PUBLIC HEARING

12 SEPTEMBER 21, 2021

13 (Commencing at 7:00 p.m.)

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23 Reported by:

24 Patsy A. Mayberry, C.R.

25 Alaris Litigation Services



1 I N D E X

2 PROCEEDINGS PAGE

3 CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL 6

4 DECLARATIONS BY COMMISSIONERS 7

5 HEARING PROCEDURES BY MS. EAGAN 7

6 APPROVAL OF MINUTES (AUGUST 17, 2021) 9

7 ELECTION OF OFFICERS 10

8 COMMUNICATIONS AND VISITORS COMMENTS 12

9 P U B L I C H E A R I N G S

10 UNFINISHED BUSINESS:

11 FILE 210230 - PLANNING AND ZONING:

12 PRESENTATION BY MS. EAGAN 13

13 PUBLIC COMMENTS 15

14 DISCUSSION 15

15 MOVED TO UNFINISHED BUSINESS 15

16 VOTE 72

17 NEW BUSINESS:

18 FILE 21209 - SWANN SALES & CONSULTING

19 AARON SWANN:


21 PRESENTATION BY APPLICANT 18



24 DISCUSSION 73

25 VOTE 75



1 I N D E X

2 (CONTINUED)

3 PROCEEDINGS PAGE

4 FILE 180257 - SAMANTHA WILLIFORD/LOST HILL

5 LAKE EVENTS:


7 PRESENTATION BY APPLICANT 47



10 DISCUSSION 76

11 VOTE 77

12 PRELIMINARY PLATS - NONE 78

13 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION FORUM 78

14 PLANNING DIRECTOR'S REPORT 81

15 ADJOURNMENT 91

16 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 92

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1 E X H I B I T S

2 IDENTIFICATION DESCRIPTION PAGE

3 COUNTY:

4 EXHIBIT A FRANKLIN COUNTY UNIFIED LAND USE 8

5 REGULATIONS

6 EXHIBIT B OFFICIAL ZONING MAP 8

7 EXHIBIT C OFFICIAL MASTER PLAN 8

8 EXHIBIT D CASE FILE FOR ALL CASES TO BE HEARD 8

9 FILE 210209 - SWANN:

10 SWANN:

11 EXHIBIT 1 SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS 18

12 FILE 180257 - SAMANTHA WILLIFORD/LOST HILL:

13 WILLIFORD:

14 EXHIBIT 1 SUPPORTING DOCUMENTS 47

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16 (All exhibits, if any, were retained by the

17 Commission, and will not be attached hereto.)

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1 A P P E A R A N C E S

2 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSIONERS:

3 WILLIAM EVANS, JR., CHAIRMAN

4 DAN HAIRE, VICE-CHAIRMAN

5 STANLEY VOSS, COMMISSIONER

6 BILL McLAREN, COMMISSIONER

7 DEBBIE WILLETTE, COMMISSIONER

8 JIM GRUTSCH, COMMISSIONER

9 MIKE KLENKE, COMMISSIONER

10 KARL MITTLER, COMMISSIONER

11 DAVE LARAMORE, COMMISSIONER

12 DENNIS HARTMANN, COMMISSIONER

13 PLANNING AND ZONING STAFF:

14 SCOTTIE EAGAN, PLANNING DIRECTOR

15 CRYSTAL HOLDMEIER, ASSISTANT

16 LEGAL COUNSEL:

17 MARK PIONTEK, COUNTY ATTORNEY

18 ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES:

19 By: PATSY A. MAYBERRY, C.R.

20 711 NORTH ELEVENTH STREET

21 ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63101

22 (314) 644-2191

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 (SEPTEMBER 21, 2021)

3 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I'd like to

4 call to order the September 21st meeting of the

5 Franklin County Planning and Zoning Commission.

6 Scottie, will you please take roll.

7 MS. EAGAN: Bill Evans?

8 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Here.

9 MS. EAGAN: Jim Grutsch?

10 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Here.

11 MS. EAGAN: Dan Haire?

12 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Here.

13 MS. EAGAN: Dennis Hartmann?

14 COMMISSIONER HARTMANN: Here.

15 MS. EAGAN: Mike Klenke?

16 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: Here.

17 MS. EAGAN: Dave Laramore?

18 COMMISSIONER LARAMORE: Here.

19 MS. EAGAN: Bill McLaren?

20 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Here.

21 MS. EAGAN: Karl Mittler?

22 COMMISSIONER MITTLER: (Arrived

23 later.)

24 MS. EAGAN: Tim Reinhold?

25 COMMISSIONER REINHOLD: (Not



1 present.)

2 MS. EAGAN: Stan Voss?

3 COMMISSIONER VOSS: Here.

4 MS. EAGAN: And, Debbie

5 Willette?

6 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: Here.

7 MS. EAGAN: Okay. We have a

8 quorum.

9 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Thank you.

10 At this time, I will give the Planning

11 and Zoning Commissioners the opportunity to declare

12 any conflict, communication or relationship they may

13 have had that might influence their ability to

14 consider today's issues impartially.

15 (NONE)

16 If there is no declarations, Scottie,

17 will you please give us the presentation of the

18 meeting minutes and procedures -- procedures and

19 exhibits.

20 MS. EAGAN: Tonight's Planning

21 Commission meeting is governed by the Franklin County

22 Unified Land Use Regulations.

23 Some matters on the agenda may be for

24 action by the Planning and Zoning Commission. These

25 matters do not involve public hearings.



1 Other matters on the agenda require

2 public hearings under Missouri law. If a matter

3 involves a public hearing, all individuals who desire

4 to testify will be given an opportunity to do so.

5 At this time, I would like to place into

6 the record these regulations as Exhibit A, the

7 official Zoning Map as Exhibit B, the official Master

8 Plan as Exhibit C, and the case file for each case as

9 Exhibit D for all the cases to be heard during the

10 meeting.

11 (THEREUPON, EVIDENCE WAS

12 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AND

13 SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD AS

14 EXHIBITS A, B, C, AND D.)

15 All Unfinished Business items on the

16 agenda will be dealt with first. Once the Unfinished

17 Business issues have been taken care of, each item of

18 New Business will be opened.

19 As each case is opened, a staff report

20 will first be read to the Commission, followed by any

21 questions for the staff.

22 Then if anyone in the audience would like

23 to speak or comment on a file that is part of the

24 public hearing, they must first print their name on

25 the sign-in sheet provided, and then be sworn in.



1 When it is your turn to speak, you will

2 come to the front of the room to address the

3 Commission and only the Commission, not anyone in the

4 audience, with your comments.

5 It is possible for the Planning

6 Commission to decide to move a New Business issue to

7 Unfinished Business and vote on it the same night.

8 At the conclusion of all questions,

9 comments, and discussion concerning each case, the

10 Planning Commission will proceed. Any final decision

11 by the Planning and Zoning Commission concerning

12 Conditional Use Permits may be appealed to the Board

13 of Zoning Adjustment any time within 90 days.

14 Applications for such an appeal may be

15 acquired from the Department offices during normal

16 business hours.


18 All the Commissioners should have

19 received a copy of the August 17th minutes. If there

20 are no corrections or additions, the Chair would

21 entertain a motion to approve.

22 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Motion

23 to approve.

24 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: I'll

25 second that.



1 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Motion and a

2 second to approve the August 17th minutes. All in

3 favor signify by saying aye.

4 COMMISSIONER VOSS: Aye.

5 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Aye.

6 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: Aye.

7 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Aye.

8 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Aye.

9 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: Aye.

10 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Aye.

11 COMMISSIONER MITTLER: Aye.

12 COMMISSIONER LARAMORE: Aye.

13 COMMISSIONER HARTMANN: Aye.

14 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Opposed?

15 (NONE)

16 The minutes are approved.

17 Election of Officers. We need to elect a

18 chairman and a vice chairman. So the floor will be

19 open for nominations for chairman.

20 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: I'd

21 like to nominate Bill Evans for chairman.

22 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: I'll

23 second that.

24 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Any other

25 nominations?



1 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: I move

2 to close the nominations for chairman.

3 CHAIRMAN EVANS: We have a

4 motion to close the nominations for chairman.

5 COMMISSIONER VOSS: Second it.

6 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Motion and

7 second. All in favor signify by saying aye.










17 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I assume since

18 there is only one nomination, then I'll say that it's

19 closed.

20 Also vice chairman? Currently that would

21 be Dan Haire. The floor is open for nominations.

22 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Mr.

23 Chairman, I'd like to make a motion for Dan Haire to

24 retain his vice chairmanship.




1 second that.


3 nominations?

4 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Motion

5 to close the nominations.

6 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Motion to

7 close the nominations. All in favor signify by saying

8 aye.











19 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Since he's the

20 only nominee, by inclination, he's vice chairman.

21 Congratulations, Dan.

22 Communications and Visitors Comments.

23 Anyone present wishing to address the Commission?

24 (NONE)

25 If not, we'll move on to Unfinished



1 Business. We have none.

2 Move on to New Business. File 210230,

3 Planning and Zoning. Planning and Zoning Commission

4 is the applicant.

5 MS. EAGAN: This is File

6 210230. The applicant is the Planning and Zoning

7 Department.

8 The applicant wishes to rezone seven

9 parcels from the O Zoning District to the A Zoning

10 District.

11 The properties are located on Gravois

12 Avenue approximately .84 miles west of the overpass in

13 Central Township.

14 THE FACTS: This rezoning includes seven

15 parcels of property approximately 13.6 acres in size.

16 The current zoning on this property is O.

17 The applicant would like to correct a zoning mistake

18 that was made when we did the country-wide rezoning in

19 2019 and 2020.

20 The properties between Interstate 44 and

21 Gravois Avenue are zoned A besides the properties in

22 question.

23 It appears these properties are between

24 the city limits of St. Clair, and may have been missed

25 when rezoning the properties between Gravois and



1 Interstate 44.

2 STAFF COMMENTS: This property

3 appears to be commercial on the Future Land Use Map.

4 These properties should be zoned A to

5 match the other properties in the area.

6 Rezonings are allowed in our regulations

7 due to the ever-changing conditions that exist in the

8 county and elsewhere. According to Article 14,

9 Section 321, any such change must promote the health,

10 safety, morals, comfort, and general welfare of

11 Franklin County by conserving and protecting property

12 and building values, by securing the most economical

13 use of land and facilitating the adequate provision of

14 public improvements in accordance with the Master Plan

15 adopted by Franklin County.

16 So as you guys can see on the map that

17 was provided, it's just a little section. Everything

18 to the north, west, and east are zoned A. All these

19 properties along this little corridor do have

20 commercial businesses on them. So we're just trying

21 to correct the error so the businesses can actually

22 operate.

23 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Any questions

24 or discussion from the Commissioners?

25 (NONE)



1 Anyone else present wishing to speak in

2 favor of this file?

3 (NONE)

4 Anyone present wishing to speak in

5 opposition?

6 (NONE)

7 If no further discussion, the Chair would

8 entertain a motion to move this to Unfinished

9 Business.

10 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Mr.

11 Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to move this File

12 210230 to Unfinished Business.

13 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Second.


15 motion and second to move File 210230 to Unfinished

16 Business. All in favor signify by saying aye.














3 (NONE)

4 The motion is carried.

5 Moving on to File 210209, Swann Sales and

6 Consulting.


8 210209. The applicant is Swann Sales and Consulting,

9 L. L. C., care of Aaron Swann.

10 The applicant requests to rezone one

11 parcel from the W Zoning District to the R Zoning

12 District.

13 The property is located approximately .54

14 miles west of Kaiser Hill Road on Highway 100, east of

15 the entrance to Green Bluff Drive, in Boeuf Township.

16 THE FACTS: The total area for the

17 rezoning is approximately 5.4 acres.

18 The zoning of this property as of January

19 14, 2020 is W. Prior to January 14, 2020, this

20 property was zoned Non-Urban and Agricultural. The

21 applicant would like to rezone to the R District.

22 The properties surrounding the proposed

23 site are zoned W and are primarily low-density

24 residential properties.

25 Just south of this property is AJ



1 Subdivision, which is a one-lot subdivision.

2 This property appears to have access to

3 Green Bluff Drive. This is a private road with an

4 easement width of approximately 50 feet.

5 This property is a part of a subdivision,

6 Green Bluff Acres, which is a 12-lot subdivision that

7 was platted in 1992.

8 Directly east of this property is a 7-lot

9 subdivision, Meadow Brook Acres, that was platted in

10 1996.

11 According to the Assessor's records,

12 there is one commercial building on the property that

13 was built in 1987, which would be considered a prior

14 existing non-conforming use.

15 A large portion of this property appears

16 to be within the floodplain.

17 STAFF COMMENTS: In the Justification for

18 Rezoning, the applicant mentions they have expanded

19 their facilities and shipping containers. Shipping

20 containers are not permitted as storage units in

21 Franklin County. It will need to be removed from the

22 property.

23 Rezonings are allowed in our regulations

24 due to the ever-changing conditions that exist in the

25 county and elsewhere. According to Article 14,



1 Section 321, any such change must promote the health,

2 safety, morals, comfort, and general welfare of

3 Franklin County by conserving and protecting property

4 and building values, by securing the most economical

5 use of land and facilitating the adequate provision of

6 public improvements in accordance with the Master Plan

7 adopted by Franklin County.


9 Is the applicant present? If you want to

10 step forward. If you would, state your name and

11 address, and sign in, please.

12 MR. AARON SWANN: My name is

13 Aaron Swann. My address is 10174 Highway 100, New

14 Haven, Missouri.

15 (THEREUPON, THE WITNESS WAS

16 SWORN.)

17 CHAIRMAN EVANS; Mr. Swann, if

18 you'll give us a little bit of detail or detail on why

19 this property should be rezoned.

20 MR. SWANN: Yes. Thank you for

21 your time.

22 (THEREUPON, EVIDENCE WAS MARKED

23 FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT

24 1 SWANN.)

25 All right. Thank you for your time.



1 This is my wife, Claire. Claire and I own the

2 property that we're requesting to rezone.

3 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I will say

4 only one of you can speak at a time. She hasn't been

5 sworn in. So --

6 MR. SWANN: Okay. Okay.

7 I want to give you a brief history of

8 this property and a few things to consider before you

9 make a recommendation.

10 As mentioned earlier, this property has

11 been in continuous use as a storage facility since,

12 apparently, 1987. I wasn't aware of that. We

13 purchased it in 2019 with the intension to expand it.

14 The facility was full, so I was unaware

15 that I'm not allowed to have storage containers there.

16 That's partially why I'm here. I want to build the --

17 I want to expand that facility in a professional way

18 that benefits the county and provide a safe facility

19 for the residents around me.

20 We turn down business regularly from area

21 residents who need storage space to rent. We are

22 requesting for you to approve our property to be

23 rezoned so that we may expand with more self-storage

24 lockers like you have a picture on page 2. This is

25 the actual facility as it sits now, this page here.



1 So we want to build more lockers like

2 that to serve the community. We have residents from

3 west of our facility and residents from New Haven that

4 use our facility, and like I said, we get a lot of

5 requests that we have to turn down.

6 We also want to build a spot for covered

7 RV storage. As well, the example is on the front here

8 of what we might build. This is, you know, an idea we

9 have as far as the picture. This is an actual picture

10 of the exact facility. We want to build a facility

11 like that to store RVs inside on the premises as well.

12 And then we also want to build a small

13 sales office to provide a safe and professional place

14 for people to conduct business.

15 We feel this rezoning request to be

16 appropriate because the R Zoning District -- the

17 purpose of the R Zoning District is to accommodate

18 commercial uses that draw business along the major

19 highways of the county. And this is right on Highway

20 100, as you head west towards Hermann.

21 The residential development that's around

22 our storage facility, our current facility, has grown

23 up around it. The facility has been there longer than

24 the housing, and it's lived -- I've lived in the

25 neighborhood my whole life. That property has lived



1 in harmony with those residents as long as it's been

2 there. There's been no issue, been no problem this

3 entire time. Again, it's been there since 1987.

4 My wife and I own and occupy the home

5 directly to the east of it. It's a separate parcel

6 that we live in just to the east if you look at this

7 page. Any expansion that we would do, we surely

8 wouldn't do anything that would have a negative impact

9 on our own property value or our neighbor's property

10 value.

11 We have a substantial home there, and we

12 plan to stay there. We would never building anything

13 that would be a -- you know, reduce our property

14 value. That's not what we're looking to do. And we

15 don't want to reduce the property value of our

16 neighbors either.

17 So the other thing that I wanted to

18 mention is, while there's not another storage facility

19 in the area, there are other light commercial -- I

20 don't know how you guys zoned them specifically, but

21 there are other commercial properties in the immediate

22 area. There are -- there's a trucking company that

23 has a facility about a half a mile away. They have

24 recently purchased another facility that's just a

25 quarter mile away.



1 Further to the east, there's a Backes and

2 Tell Heaters, Backus Enterprises is there where they

3 sell seed and fertilizer and things like that.

4 A little further to the east towards New

5 Haven, there is a -- there's another -- there's Maczuk

6 Trucking, and he has an auto sales place right there

7 on the highway.

8 So when you drive through that part of

9 New Haven -- I don't know how familiar you guys are

10 with it -- there -- it's common for there to be kind

11 of sprinkled through there commercial -- commercial

12 properties and commercial business taking place

13 amongst the residences that are there.

14 Most of those business have -- again,

15 have been there longer than the houses. The houses

16 have grown up around them. And we're -- it's our

17 community. We don't -- we don't create issues within

18 our neighborhood. So...

19 We want our facility, you know, to be

20 attractive. We want it to mirror our home. We want

21 it to benefit the county, and we want it to align with

22 the land use goals that the County has. I'm not an

23 expert. I'm, you know, a working guy like probably

24 most of you. But we want to build an attractive

25 facility that is compatible with its current use.



1 The City of New Haven and the Board of

2 Aldermen sent a letter. I don't know if you guys

3 received it, but it's on the last page of this packet

4 that states they have no problem with it. We talked

5 to them in person. I talked to some of the aldermen.

6 They're in support of it.

7 They feel they need RV storage in the

8 area to get the RVs off the streets, you know, it's a

9 hazard for traffic and children and things like that.

10 Lastly I'd say, you know, this is an

11 expansion of a decades-old existing facility is what

12 we're looking to do. And we feel like any conflict

13 with our neighbors, you know, it's minimal and likely

14 non-existent. We've gone and talked to them about

15 this rezoning request, and we have their -- to my

16 knowledge, we have all of their support in doing this.

17 We're part of the community, and they trust that

18 anything we do is just going to benefit the community.

19 So...

20 I think that's all I had to say. You

21 guys have any questions?

22 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Commissioners

23 have any questions? Commissioner McLaren?


25 Chairman. So I guess I understand you're across the



1 highway from Backes and Toggy (ph.) from the

2 fertilizer plant, that general area?

3 MR. SWANN: No, I'm directly

4 west of there a mile.

5 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Right.

6 MR. SWANN: Yeah.

7 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Down

8 there?

9 MR. SWANN: On the same side of

10 the road, yeah.

11 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: On the

12 same side, okay.

13 MR. SWANN: Yeah, yeah.

14 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: That

15 makes -- understand why it's a floodplain then.

16 MR. SWANN: Yeah.

17 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: So your

18 house has been built after these storage facilities

19 are?

20 MR. SWANN: Yeah.

21 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: And your

22 subdivision existed during -- when the -- did the

23 subdivision exist when the storage buildings were

24 built?

25 MS. EAGAN: It says it in your



1 staff report. The subdivisions came in the '90s. The

2 facility was built in the '80s.

3 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Okay.

4 So there's not going to be a con- -- what I'm asking,

5 there's not going to automatically going to be a

6 conflict, but there's restrict -- homeowners

7 restrictions as part of it that you can't have a

8 commercial building in -- or a commercial building

9 inside of the subdivision. I don't want to go against

10 the preexisting homeowners restrictions.

11 MR. SWANN: To my knowledge,

12 the -- the covenants of that subdivision, just as a

13 handshake, I don't have any issues with anyone in that

14 sub- -- in Green Bluff Subdivision.

15 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I

16 understand you don't, but I didn't know if there was

17 covenants or not.

18 MR. SWANN: To my knowledge,

19 the covenants have been -- they've expired. They

20 haven't renewed them. So there are no --

21 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I don't

22 think they ever expire.

23 MR. SWANN: Someone told me

24 that. I don't believe there's any issue with that --

25 with that subdivision.



1 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: How many

2 units do you have now?

3 MR. SWANN: I have 16 units.

4 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: In the

5 front and the back?

6 MR. SWANN: Yes.

7 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: And then

8 do you foresee how this expansion you're wanting to do

9 or --

10 MR. SWANN: Yeah, I'd like to

11 add 20 to 30 storage lockers, and I'd like to add

12 space along the back of my property for 15 to 20 RVs.

13 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: Is it

14 open 24 hours right now?

15 MR. SWANN: Yes.

16 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: Okay. Do

17 you plan to continue to do that?

18 MR. SWANN: Yes.

19 CHAIRMAN EVANS: And all access

20 would be off Green Bluff?

21 MR. SWANN: Yes. Yes.

22 I'm -- you know, to be honest, I'm

23 flexible on that issue. If -- if it -- you know, the

24 structured road there is -- it's a -- gosh it's over a

25 mile straight shot. People drive way too fast through



1 there because it's a straight stretch. I'd be -- you

2 know, there's -- what I'm saying is there's a large

3 line of sight. You can see forever. I'm sure I could

4 get a -- I could get an entrance off of Highway 100

5 approved there, if there's not already, and I'd be

6 willing to do that if it -- if it helps.


8 think that has anything to do the rezoning. So that

9 wouldn't -- is inconsequential to what we're talking

10 about.

11 CHAIRMAN EVANS: And most of

12 your business as you have now, is it all local New

13 Haven people that rent the storage places?

14 MR. SWANN: Yeah, I think it's

15 all of it. I'm -- I believe every -- yeah. Yeah.

16 CHAIRMAN EVANS: And most of

17 the business you turn down is also in that area?

18 MR. SWAN: Yeah. You know,

19 occasionally I get an outlier that, you know, needs a

20 storage facility quickly, and they'll -- they'll

21 somehow find me, you know.

22 But most of the business that I turn down

23 are right from -- right around the area and they're

24 generally someone I know. Just the way I run things,

25 I don't typically rent to people I don't know a little



1 bit about, you know. So yeah.


3 questions?

4 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Why did

5 you pick Zoning District R?

6 MR. SWANN: Zoning District R

7 allowed for --

8 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Allows for

9 storage units, yeah.

10 MR. SWANN: Yes.

11 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Was there

12 any other reason?

13 MR. SWANN: Yeah. Zoning

14 District R, I mean, if the -- if the request that I

15 sent, Zoning District R allows for me to sell rental

16 RVs also.

17 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Scottie,

18 can I ask you a question?

19 Everything else around New Haven when we

20 did the Master Plan and then down Highway 50, are B

21 indeed does allow for storage units. Does it allow for

22 selling of the RV vehicles, because there's a lot of

23 things in R that I would not want to see. Not to say

24 what you're doing is fine, but could go in if you ever

25 sell the property being inconsistent with what we have



1 already off to New Haven on both sides of Highway 100

2 and what we had down 50 and some other areas in the

3 Master Plan.

4 MR. SWANN: Okay.

5 MS. EAGAN: So the B District

6 would allow for motor vehicle rental and service as a

7 conditional use permit. Motor vehicle sales, I don't

8 think is permitted. Let me check one more spot. So

9 they can do the rentals.

10 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Because

11 there's -- right from there, there's several motor

12 vehicle sales already in the V District down that road

13 in New Haven.

14 MS. EAGAN: Yeah, so the sale

15 is not permitted, but the rental and service would be

16 permitted -- would be a conditional use.

17 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Then we've

18 had some noncompliance already on there.

19 MS. EAGAN: Yeah, the

20 grandfathered use.

21 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Okay,

22 grandfather use. Yeah, that would be my only concern,

23 I mean, just to the group of things that R does have

24 some things potentially that could go into there. Not

25 to say your use and if you ever sell the property,



1 whatever we zone it, anything in that zoning district

2 would be approved then. And I just -- I just find

3 that probably B is more consistent with what we have

4 settled for in the New Haven area.

5 Everything else we have, if we look at

6 our zoning map, down on both sides is Zoning District

7 B. And the same for -- what we have R is usually off

8 the main down by 100 by 44 and down the 44 stretch.

9 MR. SWANN: Okay. So does -- I

10 have never done this before. Does this -- you know,

11 if I've not applied for the, you know, I guess I have

12 applied for a zoning district that I'm able to apply,

13 but if -- I'm just -- I guess if there's a better

14 zoning district, that's it. I'm open to that.

15 What we didn't talk about -- we talked

16 about storage because that's what's there and that's

17 the -- that's -- that's the most pressing thing I want

18 to do. But also I'm in the RV business. I'm a sales

19 rep in the RV business, and as a passive form of

20 income, I'd like to have a place where I could rent.

21 Everybody says RV and they think of this 40-foot bus

22 they saw on TV. I want to rent a handful of small

23 campers that I can store in that facility, that I can,

24 you know, rent to a customer, and let them go on the

25 trip of their lifetime and bring it back to me.



1 And then I'll clean it and do it again.

2 Right. I don't -- I'm not going to rent a, you know,

3 a bus, right, but that's what I'm looking to do. And

4 if there's a better fitting zoning district I'm happy

5 to accept that. But the way that business works is

6 you rent that item, you know, the little travel

7 trailer for a year or two, and then you have to turn

8 it over. You have to sell it. You know, when it's

9 past its useful life, I have to retail it as an item.

10 I need the ability to do that.

11 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Well,

12 then the R would be the appropriate zoning district

13 to --

14 MR. SWANN: Okay.

15 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: -- to

16 fit those -- what you're looking for that's what fit

17 your wants.

18 MR. SWANN: Okay. At least I

19 applied for the right thing for what I'm looking to

20 do.

21 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Any more

22 questions for the applicant?

23 COMMISSIONER MITTLER: I do.

24 On one of your pages, you're proposing to add

25 decorative fence and gates for security. Do you guys



1 currently have any theft or issues for the last couple

2 of years?

3 MR. SWANN: No. There's no

4 fencing there right now. We -- we really -- again,

5 live right next door. I work from home, so I'm there

6 a lot, but no, we don't have any -- any -- we don't

7 have any issues that I've had in the last couple of

8 years. We've been real fortunate.

9 CHAIRMAN EVANS: And just

10 looking at the answers you've filled in for the -- on

11 the application, I didn't see any reference to rentals

12 or sales. Did I miss that, or is it in there?

13 MR. SWANN: If you look at Item

14 Number 1, at the very bottom, I don't know if you're

15 looking at the exact same thing I am. I'm looking at

16 this. I don't know if you reformatted this, but --

17 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Okay.

18 MR. SWANN: -- where it says

19 explain how we further the purpose. At the beginning

20 of the applicable zoning district classification

21 Unified Land Use Regulations.

22 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Okay. I see

23 the last sentence is just so ambiguous that would

24 accommodate the sale -- rental of sale items, boats

25 and RVs.



1 MR. SWANN: Yeah, I apologize

2 if that seems ambiguous. I, you know, as stated, I

3 plan to rent a handful of small RVs and at the end of

4 their life cycle, I have -- you know, that's just the

5 business of rental RVs, that you turn your inventory

6 and repeat.

7 CHAIRMAN EVANS; Okay.

8 Anything other questions?

9 (NONE)

10 Thank you.

11 Commissioner McLaren, do you have another

12 question?

13 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I really

14 don't have a question. I will say I kind of concur

15 with Dan, that we need to look at the other uses.

16 It's nothing with you all here, but you know, I'm sure

17 your neighbors are very happy with you. Your facility

18 looks good, but we got to look at not what you want to

19 do, but what all the potential other things are that

20 can be in that zoning district.

21 So it's not about you. It's about all

22 the other things that could be there.

23 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Right, when we

24 rezone, we look at the 40 some odd permitted uses, and

25 you can tell us that you're going to put in storage



1 units, and we can send this recommendation to the

2 Commission to approve it. And you can put something

3 else in, send it over to rezoning. It does not give

4 you permission to do that. It gives you permission to

5 do any one of the permitted uses that's in that

6 district.

7 So that's what we have to consider.

8 Questions, comments?

9 (NONE)

10 Thank you.

11 MR. SWANN: Thank you.

12 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Scottie, the

13 other businesses that are mentioned in there, the

14 trucking and Backes, those are permitted in the

15 current zoning, correct?

16 MS. EAGAN: It just depends

17 what exactly they're doing at these locations. Backes

18 and Tell most likely would be because it would be

19 considered an agricultural business.

20 The truck business I honestly don't know

21 what the use. I'd have to look into it and see.

22 CHAIRMAN EVANS: And all the

23 zoning around there is currently in the W, correct?

24 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: W and then

25 B.



1 MS. EAGAN: Both.

2 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Down the

3 road, down 100, on both sides of New Haven is B.

4 CHAIRMAN EVANS: All right. So

5 this would be the only R in --

6 MS. EAGAN: So there's B that's

7 closer to New Haven. They're right here. So right

8 where Olive Road comes out on 100 is where the B

9 stops.

10 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Is there any R

11 up there by Pacific?

12 MS. EAGAN: No, there's no R on

13 this portion of Highway 100.

14 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Is Sandy

15 Lake, the wedding venue, is that also W?

16 MS. EAGAN: Yes.

17 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Olive is

18 where that -- Vatterott has his conference center.

19 MS. EAGAN: Yeah, Cedar Creek

20 is up on Olive.

21 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah, and

22 that's actually not really close to 100. I think

23 that's down a piece.

24 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Yeah.

25 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Right up



1 the road on Olive is a commercial lawnmower, small

2 engine repair and sales shop there. It's just 400

3 feet up Olive.

4 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: North of

5 Olive there?

6 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: North on

7 Olive.

8 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: I guess I

9 don't -- when I go by, I didn't pay attention.

10 CHAIRMAN EVANS: So it's --

11 since that would be the only R there, and I don't want

12 to use the term spot zoning, but -- and it's also why

13 asked if most of his business was local or in that

14 area, in which case, you can make the case that it

15 would be appropriate. It's just not for his business,

16 but it would be for the benefit of the neighborhood.

17 But then it's mentioned it's kind of

18 hard. There are a few things they may have -- some of

19 the Commissioners may have an issue with.

20 And then once again, this is a rezoning.

21 So we'll recommend to the Franklin County Commission,

22 and they'll have their own little hearing on this to

23 look at it.

24 MS. EAGAN: Want to open it up

25 for anyone else in favor?



1 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Right. Anyone

2 else -- any other questions before we go on?

3 (NONE)

4 Anyone else wishing to speak in favor of

5 this file?

6 (NONE)


8 opposition?

9 In favor?

10 Please state your name and address and

11 sign in, please.

12 MR. GERALD BRANSON, JR.: Yeah,

13 I'm Gerald Branson, Jr. I live at 10179 Highway 100,

14 right across from there.


16 SWORN.)

17 I would just like to make a brief

18 comment. I actually used to own the property. We

19 never ever had any issues with it. We probably -- me

20 and my wife owned it for 10 or 15, maybe 10 years,

21 something like that. I really don't remember.

22 Never had any issues with anything. We

23 always kept it nice and clean. Aaron is doing the

24 exact same thing, and like he stated, the community

25 actually really likes that storage unit. It's kind of



1 out of town because then you can have a boat maybe or

2 the campers, which we never did do it. I just never

3 had time to mess with it really. But what he's

4 wanting to do is going to be definitely a major asset

5 to the community.

6 I do a lot of business in New Haven. I

7 own quite a bit of property in New Haven, and I've

8 talked to a lot of people, and they -- they knew about

9 this. And they said that this is really a good thing.

10 New Haven is a small community, and

11 anything we can do to get more people to be -- to get

12 excited about our area and just help the community, to

13 us is that's a very beneficial thing.

14 I know like your concerned that the R

15 maybe put you somewhere you don't want to be with that

16 spot zoning. I don't know the answer to that. That's

17 -- you guys get to do that, but I -- I mean, and my

18 house is directly right across the street from there.

19 I own three houses there personally, and it would

20 never affect the property value of mine I'm sure. And

21 -- and that's just kind of like what I'd like to say.

22 So...

23 CHAIRMAN EVANS: All right.

24 Thank you.

25 MR. BRANSON: Thanks.



1 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Anyone else

2 wishing to speak in support?

3 (NONE)


5 opposition?

6 (NONE)

7 Any comment? Does anyone have any

8 comments you'd like to add in the closing or

9 discussion by the Commission?

10 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Once

11 again, I'll concur with Dan. I feel much better about

12 Dan's idea than a CUP on this as I do to go to the R

13 zone. I'm going to have a very difficult time because

14 there's nothing else close to here that's R zoning,

15 and I'm going to have a very difficult time voting for

16 this where I think I could vote for the other.

17 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: I do

18 agree about that. I'm having a difficult time with

19 all the additional things that would be approved or

20 would be something that a future owner could do that

21 just does not fit with the surrounding area.

22 A question for Scottie. Could they get a

23 CUP for sales?

24 MS. EAGAN: Not in the B

25 District.



1 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: It's

2 not -- it's not permitted?

3 MS. EAGAN: No.

4 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Scottie, I was

5 looking here for a CUP. What district would that have

6 to be?

7 MS. EAGAN: I'm sorry?

8 CHAIRMAN EVANS: If they wanted

9 to use the conditional use permit, or is that -- and,

10 Bill, that's what you were talking about, I guess,

11 going with a CUP?

12 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Well, it

13 would allow them to do rentals is what I thought she

14 said.

15 MS. EAGAN: It allows -- so the

16 B District allows them to do the rentals as a

17 conditional use permit, but it does not allow for

18 sales. So sales are only allowed in R, A, and G.

19 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Okay. I guess

20 that would be the issue then. Again, sales are what in

21 R?

22 MS. EAGAN: R, A and G.

23 CHAIRMAN EVANS: R, A and G.

24 MS. EAGAN: So out of those

25 three, R makes the most sense for what they're wanting



1 to do.

2 CHAIRMAN EVANS: It would just

3 preclude the sales?

4 MS. EAGAN: Sales would be

5 permitted in R.

6 CHAIRMAN EVANS: In R, sorry.

7 MS. EAGAN: Yeah, which is what

8 they're trying to do.

9 CHAIRMAN EVANS: But if they

10 wanted to do the CUP route, then what option would

11 they have?

12 MS. EAGAN: If you -- if they

13 wanted to change to B, they could only do the rentals

14 on a conditional use permit, but then he would be

15 stuck with the RV or have to go somewhere else to sell

16 it.

17 CHAIRMAN EVANS: That would be

18 the issue with a conditional use permit, is that it's

19 not available in the district to accomplish both

20 things, the sales and the storage.

21 I guess the conundrum is what to pick

22 then. Again, we have to recommend something to the

23 Commission.

24 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Well,

25 once again, the conundrum is what fits in the area not



1 what the applicants wants. Unfortunately, I think

2 they're great people, but I truly don't know that you

3 could say that R fits here with the way everything

4 else is. I mean...

5 MS. EAGAN: And Mark can

6 correct me if I'm wrong, but their application asked

7 for R. We can't change it.

8 COUNTY ATTORNEY PIONTEK:

9 Correct. Yeah.

10 MS. EAGAN: So that's what we

11 have to -- well, you have to recommend tonight is

12 based on the R District.

13 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: So it

14 sounds to me like that leaves assuming we do not

15 approve the R tonight, that leaves the applicant with

16 the decision to possibly come back and ask for a B

17 zoning, and -- but he would have to make other

18 arrangements for the sales portions. You'd have to

19 take your older RV off site and sell it somewhere

20 else. I suppose --

21 MS. EAGAN: Well, and it still

22 goes before County Commission whether you guys vote to

23 recommend approval or denial. So --

24 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: Right.

25 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: I think



1 that is asking an awful lot for an applicant to have a

2 rental facility and he wants to sell his overstock

3 equipment, his campers, saying you can go ahead and

4 rent them here all day long, but if you want to sell

5 one of the small ones, you have to take it somewhere

6 else, take it down the road. Put it on somebody's

7 front yard and put a for sale sign on it. I can see

8 all the way up and down Highway 100.

9 I mean, we have every Sunday you go up

10 and down 100. There's campers and automobiles with

11 for sale signs all over them.

12 Okay. Some of the uses that may be

13 intimidating in the R District that you all are

14 looking at in here, I think the fact that this is --

15 the majority of the property is in a floodplain. That

16 would preclude the building of a facility that

17 probably would not be agreeable to a lot of people.

18 It's a storage facility, and I don't know

19 that the property itself lends itself to much else

20 other than that. And most of the facilities in B

21 zoning are going to be what's in R zoning. There are

22 some things that may be in the R that may be a little

23 more objectionable, but I don't know that they're

24 going to be really interested in doing something like

25 that here. Just something to consider. I mean,



1 you're changing zoning from what it is right now to R

2 or B, call it spot zoning or whatever you like. But

3 you are replying to a request -- addressing a request

4 that the property owner has brought to us.


6 discussion?

7 (NONE)

8 And we're charged with making a

9 recommendation to the Commission, who will have their

10 own public hearing, and they will decide what -- what

11 the final zoning will be as recommended for or

12 against.

13 So I don't see any benefit at all in

14 keeping this on the agenda or tabling it, but making a

15 recommendation so we can move it up to the Commission.


17 Commission, I would like to make a motion to recommend

18 to the County Commission that we approve the

19 applicant's request to change the zoning to an R

20 District.

21 CHAIRMAN EVANS: We have to

22 move this to Unfinished Business.

23 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Oh, we

24 do? Okay. Okay. I thought on a rezoning, we don't.

25 MS. EAGAN: Because it's a



1 public hearing, move it to --

2 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Okay.

3 Then I would make a motion to move it to Old Business.

4 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: I'll

5 second.

6 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Motion and

7 second to move File 210209 to Unfinished Business.

8 All in favor signify by saying aye.












20 (NONE)

21 File 180257. Williford, Samantha/Lost

22 Hill Lake Events. Scottie?


24 180257. The applicant is Samantha Williford.

25 the applicant is requesting to amend her



1 CUP File 180257 to host special events, occasional in

2 the W Zoning District.

3 The property is located on Mill Hill

4 Road, approximately one mile southwest of Highway TT

5 in Central Township.

6 THE FACTS: The total area for the

7 property is approximately 184 acres.

8 The zoning of this property is W. In

9 this district, "Special Events, Occasional" require a

10 Conditional Use Permit.

11 The surrounding properties are zoned W.

12 This property has access to Mill Hill

13 Road. This is a county road with a right-of-way width

14 of approximately 50 feet.

15 This property is surrounded primarily by

16 undeveloped land and the river to the south.

17 This property is located within Public

18 Water Supply District 3 boundaries.

19 A large portion of the property is

20 located in the floodplain.

21 The applicant received a Conditional Use

22 Permit in 2013 to host Special Events, Periodic.

23 The applicant received another

24 Conditional Use Permit in 2018 for Special Events,

25 Occasional.



1 One condition on that Conditional Use

2 Permit stated all activities shall run between April

3 and October.

4 The applicant would now like to host

5 another event, the Grove of Lights Holiday Experience,

6 and so they'd like to amend their Conditional Use

7 Permit to include November and December.

8 And you guys have a copy of the

9 Conditional Use Permit that was Special Events,

10 Occasional in your packet.

11 CHAIRMAN EVANS: All right. Is

12 the applicant present? Would you please state your

13 name and address and sign in, please.

14 MS. SAMANTHA WILLIFORD: My

15 name is Samantha Williford, and I live at 783 Lost

16 Hill Lake Road, St. Clair, Missouri.


18 SWORN.

19 THEREUPON, EVIDENCE WAS MARKED

20 FOR IDENTIFICATION AS EXHIBIT 1

21 WILLIFORD.)

22 MS. EAGAN: Bill, this is

23 marked Exhibit 1 Williford.

24 CHAIRMAN EVANS: It's

25 permitted.



1 MS. WILLIFORD: Hello. My name

2 is Samantha Williford. I own and operation Lost Hill

3 Lake Weddings and Events in St. Clair, Missouri.

4 We've been running this business since

5 2013, and we host mainly weddings, retreats, camping

6 trips and music festivals.

7 Today I'm applying for an amendment for

8 our Special Events, Occasional permit. Our address is

9 2300 Mill Hill Road, St. Clair, Missouri, and also 783

10 Lost Hill Lake Road, St. Clair, Missouri.

11 We'd like to host our first annual Grove

12 of Lights Holiday Experience starting Friday, November

13 19, 2021 going through Sunday, January 2, 2022.

14 We would be open Friday, Saturday and

15 Sundays from 5:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. for this event,

16 and our last admission would be 9:15 p.m.

17 Tickets would be sold on event site, and

18 also could be purchased at the gate. Guests would be

19 required to sign the liability waiver upon entering

20 the property.

21 Guests would spend one to two hours on

22 site looking at holiday lights, taking photos, warming

23 up by bonfires, holiday theme -- planned holiday yard

24 games and grabbing food and drug from the food and bar

25 vendor.



1 On Saturday nights, we'll have Santa on

2 site and up to 15 craft vendors under our large

3 pavilion so guests can shop as well this holiday

4 season.

5 If we have snow or ice on -- and the

6 roads were unsafe for guests to travel on a day that

7 we are open, we will cancel the event for that day and

8 tickets would be valid on another night.

9 We are proposing to be open in November

10 and December and for this season, I guess, January

11 because January 1st and 2nd is a Saturday and Sunday

12 this yea.

13 So some things to discuss, commercial

14 entrance and no traffic on the county road. So we

15 currently have the commercial entrance, and we would

16 have our gate, which is what we actually have guests

17 stop and sign the paperwork and check in with their

18 ticket and everything. That would be inside our

19 parking lot ensuring that if we had a car of lines

20 (sic), there would be no cars are backing up onto Mill

21 Hill Road. We understand that we cannot have cars

22 backed up on the county road.

23 Trash and recycling and rest rooms.

24 Trash and recycling cans will be provided all around

25 the venue, and at the end of the night, we dispose of



1 everything properly in our Dumpsters.

2 We have a rest room lodge with heat on

3 the site, as well as Port-A-Potties that we rent from

4 R & R Sanitation. And Port-A-Potties and hand-washing

5 stations would be available in the parking lot area.

6 And then the actual rest room lodge is kind of inside

7 the venue where the main event was taking place.

8 Alcohol and food. We work with a

9 licensed insured bar company for drinks, and we will

10 also have one food vendor on site for this event.

11 They will have the proper licensing, insurance and

12 permits to be a food vendor for this event.

13 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Any questions

14 for the applicant?

15 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: So all

16 this is going to be in the same containment area,

17 south of Mill Road there?

18 MS. WILLIFORD: Uh-huh. Yes.

19 Where we currently have the Special Events, Occasional

20 Permit that we've been doing events mainly in the

21 summertime, but I just had a great idea for a winter

22 event.

23 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: So you'd

24 be using the property that's to the ride of Mill Road

25 a little bit, Lost Lake Fairgrounds?



1 MS. WILLIFORD: We would not be

2 using that for this event, no. It would all be in the

3 main kind of wedding venue area that we -- that we

4 have a big parking lot attached to.

5 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: Do you

6 have an expected capacity limit?

7 MS. WILLIFORD: I think our

8 permit is 4,000 people, but we would not expect that

9 in one night. That would be really amazing, but I

10 don't think that we would expect that in one night.

11 A thousand people a night would be

12 wonderful. Two thousand people. We've never done

13 anything like this where it's just a one-day event and

14 reoccurring (sic). Everything that we've done in the

15 past has been a weekend type event, and it's one time.

16 Then it's over for the year.

17 So we're not really sure what to expect

18 with actual turnout, but I could not imagine it would

19 be 4,000 people per night.

20 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: You had

21 addressed the backing up of the vehicles on the county

22 road. Mill Hill is not the greatest road, but it's --

23 it's still a paved road.

24 MS. WILLIFORD: Sure.

25 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: And we



1 do maintain it. We plow snow in the area.

2 Do you anticipate in your event having

3 enough room inside there for the vehicles to pull in

4 and get off of the road?

5 MS. WILLIFORD: Yes. So where

6 we will have our gate inside of our kind of parking

7 lot area, I would say at least 20 cars can be lined up

8 at the gate and coming -- you know, if we had that

9 sort of line. But I'm not anticipating that sort of

10 line. The whole parking lot area is about six-,

11 seven-acre field. So we have a lot of space to park

12 cars and everything.

13 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Well, if

14 you're going to get a thousand to four thousand

15 people, you need a lot of area.

16 MS. WILLIFORD: Yeah, for sure.

17 That's what we hope for.

18 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: And the

19 reason I bring it up from the County's perspective, if

20 cars do start to back up, I would have to have -- as

21 the Highway Administrator, I'd have to monitor that

22 and have the Sheriff shut that down to where no more

23 vehicles would be allowed to stage out on the county

24 road.

25 MS. WILLIFORD: Yeah, we



1 understand that that's a big deal, and if we had to,

2 if we had such a line, we would pull people off into a

3 sort of a waiting area to kind of get them out of the

4 line and everything. So --

5 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: But

6 you'd also still have to maintain a way for emergency

7 vehicles to get in or out.

8 MS. WILLIFORD: Uh-huh, yeah.

9 The entrance is big enough that we can have people

10 going both ways if we needed to.


12 MS. WILLIFORD: And then we do

13 actually have a service entrance over at our venue

14 side. That is a fire lane entrance, kind of over by

15 the rest room area, if we did have to have emergency

16 vehicles.


18 CHAIRMAN EVANS: So basically

19 amending your previous CUP conditions on there that

20 would have to be modified or you have April through

21 October. Obviously you want to go November and

22 December.

23 You also have on there end at 1:00 a.m.

24 So just event you're saying would be 5:00 to 10:00?

25 MS. WILLIFORD: Yeah, I'm not



1 looking to be out till 1:00 a.m., absolutely not.

2 MS. EAGAN: And I wouldn't

3 recommend modifying any other conditions besides what

4 she's requesting because those would affect her other

5 events that she has out there.

6 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Right. Right.

7 That's what I -- I had gone through them and I saw

8 that everything else would be appropriate to be left

9 in place.

10 MS. EAGAN: And it sounds like

11 January might even be added.

12 MS. WILLIFORD: Yeah, I guess

13 that would be true.


15 Chairman?

16 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Mr. McLaren.

17 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I have a

18 question that may take Samantha and Scottie both to

19 answer it.

20 Is this -- between the two CUPs, is it on

21 all the property, or is it just -- because one

22 property had the CUP on one side of the road, and one

23 property had the CUP on the other side of the road.

24 MS. EAGAN: So the Special

25 Events, Occasional is restricted to just the property



1 south of Mill Hill Road.

2 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: All

3 right.

4 MS. EAGAN: And on her original

5 one for the weddings, they did do a portion of the

6 properties to the north for like getting ready and

7 fixtures and stuff like that.


9 And that's just -- I wanted clarification on that

10 because it was kind of getting confusing in my brain

11 here what's -- where something starts and where

12 something stops.

13 You know, the only thing that I truly see

14 is a more significant problem here than has been in

15 the past. You know, how big of your -- your summer

16 events, how big of an event have you had?

17 MS. WILLIFORD: Probably --

18 it's hard to say, but 1,300.


20 MS. WILLIFORD: On site at one

21 time. And people are usually camping for those.


23 And didn't have any issues with any of that?

24 MS. WILLIFORD: No.




1 So my issue is now you're bringing people

2 in in the dark as opposed to bringing them in in the

3 daylight because -- and you know the end of October,

4 the first of November, daylight savings time changes

5 to it's dark at five o'clock. And you've got it dark

6 down there by the river. Do we have -- and we don't

7 have any streetlights down there.

8 And you don't want a lot of light because

9 I'm assuming you'll want to do Christmas lights up in

10 the trees and all that, but I -- I don't know how you

11 safely do this without having some lighting on the

12 road or some lighting at the parking area or

13 something. Because you got the river there, you're

14 going to have little kids, that's my -- if you want to

15 address that.

16 MS. WILLIFORD: Sure,

17 absolutely.

18 So we will have -- we'll be renting from

19 this company in Villa Ridge. It's called Green to Go

20 and they have these big construction like lighting

21 things that we'll be renting a few of those for the

22 parking lot to definitely be lighting that area.

23 And then inside the actual venue, it will

24 be pretty lit up from the actual light displays and

25 everything. So once they're on the property, you



1 know, safety is a top concern. We're a family

2 friendly place for sure. I'll have my children down

3 there.

4 So definitely once they're there, we can

5 ensure that they are -- it is a lit-up safe operation.

6 Absolutely. And we would love it if the County

7 Highway wanted to add some light along Mill Hill Road.

8 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: We'll

9 run that by the Commission.

10 MS. WILLIFORD: And we will --

11 we're leaning to kind of that we have a paper that you

12 sign right at the front of our entrance and

13 everything, and we're thinking that's going to be lit

14 up pretty up too with one of these rented lights.

15 So we're trying to put like a spotlight

16 on the actual entrance and everything.

17 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I know you're

18 requesting through January 2, 2022. So you -- the way

19 you have this worded, first annual, and you really

20 don't say anything about having -- having it on an

21 annual basis since you have the dates here from

22 November 19th to January 2, 2022.

23 MS. WILLIFORD: Yeah, the first

24 year the dates will shift, and I think every year

25 depending on the success of the event, you know, just



1 because this is the first year, we're not sure if the

2 weekend after Christmas is going to be -- we want to

3 stay open and try it out, but we're not sure if that's

4 going to be worth it in the future, and every year the

5 dates are a little bit different.

6 We would like to start the weekend before

7 Thanksgiving and go until the weekend after Christmas.

8 CHAIRMAN EVANS: And that's why

9 I asked because the dates may shift, but if they're

10 put in the CUP, they won't shift.

11 MS. WILLIFORD: I see.



14 (NONE)

15 Thank you.

16 Anyone else wishing to speak in favor of

17 this file?

18 (NONE)


20 opposition?

21 (NONE)

22 Any discussion from the Commissioners?

23 I say basically it looks like they're

24 adding too much to it and changing the times. All the

25 other are just 12 conditions, and the other 10, I



1 would suggest would stay in place.

2 MS. EAGAN: I didn't think she

3 wanted to change the time.

4 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Huh, pardon?

5 MS. EAGAN: I didn't think she

6 wanted to change the time because it would affect her

7 other events that she has in the summer.

8 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Right. That's

9 what I was saying, is we do have to put that in here

10 for this event. Because if we don't change the time,

11 she could stay open till 1:00 a.m., and this is --

12 she's requesting to close at 10:00 p.m.

13 MS. EAGAN: Oh, you mean put

14 another condition of like in November, December,

15 January, --

16 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Right.

17 MS. EAGAN: -- hours of

18 operation?


20 Because her summer events that go till 1:00 a.m., and

21 this goes to 10:00, 5:00 to 10:00.

22 Just mainly concern would be too was if

23 you're familiar with -- or even if you are familiar

24 with that road, it's tough to drive at night.




1 Chairman, I want to see everybody -- I want to see

2 everybody be successful in any venture they do, but I

3 think that 4,000 people down there in the dark is an

4 awful lot of people. If we're going to amend

5 something, I think that we ought amend that to a more

6 reasonable number than that. That's an awful lot of

7 cars, awful lot of people down there in the dark.

8 MS. EAGAN: I can tell you

9 there is no limit on this CUP for these Special

10 Events, Occasional.


12 MS. EAGAN: The only limits you

13 guys put on it were for bathrooms and hand-washing

14 stations that you need 1 per every 50 guests, but

15 there is nothing in here limiting her to any number of

16 people.


18 thought I heard testimony of 4,000.

19 MS. EAGAN: She said she

20 thought that was a condition, but it's not.

21 CHAIRMAN EVANS: But we -- I

22 mean, we can make it a condition. I mean, I think she

23 said she -- in her summer events, she has had a

24 maximum of 1,300. So we have the option to put a

25 number on it if we so choose.



1 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: I just did

2 a little math, but I looked at the area that she has.

3 I was going to say it's probably about five acres, but

4 the way it's laid out when you come in there, if you

5 have 1,300 people and then 4 people per car, that

6 would be 325 cars. You can't fit much more than that

7 in that area that she has already.

8 I mean, her parking is going to limit the

9 number of people that she may have in the space. I

10 would imagine that you could probably throw a few more

11 in off to the side, but I would say 1,500 people is

12 probably the max that you're going to fit into a

13 parking space with the number of cars that you can

14 accommodate.


16 wouldn't it stand to reason that in a venue like this,

17 that if they're running from five o'clock in the

18 evening till ten o'clock in the evening, that 1,300

19 people won't get there at 5:00 and stay till 10:00.


21 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: So

22 stagger that 1,300 over a five-hour period or even a

23 three-hour period that they stay for two hours would

24 probably be -- to be expected.

25 I know at Tillis Park in St. Louis



1 County, it's about an hour and a half event, and I

2 know some of the drive-thru ones where all you do is

3 drive through and see the lights, those are an hour.

4 This one I think is a little bit more

5 because you're going to get -- there's some crafts and

6 things like that. So I think if they have 400 people

7 there at any given time, is probably a little more

8 reality. So with 400 people, they'll probably have

9 130 cars, 3 1/2 people to a car, something like that.

10 And again she said that, you know, they

11 will queue a lot of the cars inside and not let them

12 on the county road. My concern is that the county

13 roads don't get as much attention as they should when

14 we do get snow and ice. So you would have to make it

15 a point, because there is an activity like that, we'll

16 have to change our --

17 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Schedule.

18 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: --

19 schedule a little bit to make sure that we're down

20 there taking care of things like that. And we do

21 that. That's part of what we do.

22 CHAIRMAN EVANS: And she says

23 in their statements that she would expect people to

24 stay one to two hours.

25 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: The other



1 thing you're saying ten o'clock. I mean, they'll be

2 9:15 and you're going to try to get -- I think you

3 should push that to 10:30 or 11:00 because 9:15,

4 you're not going to get 300 people out of there in 45

5 minutes, you know.

6 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah, we agree

7 if you're going to let people in at 9:15 and close at

8 10:00, they're not going to --

9 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: Yeah. Be

10 happy.

11 CHAIRMAN EVANS: -- not going

12 to be happy.

13 MS. WILLIFORD: They will get

14 that information at the gate, but you know, if they

15 choose to come in at the latest at 9:15, we do have a

16 hard ten o'clock closing time. We are -- I have two

17 small children. I don't want to be out later than

18 that, so if we needed to say that the last admission

19 will be at nine o'clock so people could have a full

20 hour, that would be great.

21 And then our staff will be at least 30

22 minutes to kind of do all the trash and clean

23 everything up and turn all the lights off and all of

24 that. So we would really realistically like to be

25 shutting the space down by 10:30, 11:00 at the



1 absolutely latest. But that would be just for our few

2 staff members getting cleaned up.

3 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Have you been

4 to any other -- obviously you one exactly like this

5 where you have people who come in, stay, keep moving

6 and leave? Obviously this is lights, so...

7 MS. WILLIFORD: We haven't had

8 anything like this. This is -- you know, a wedding is

9 so different from this type of event, and then our

10 other public events have mainly been an overnight

11 camping type of thing. So this is unique.

12 But I thin 1,500 in an evening of us

13 being open would be plenty that we would feel

14 comfortable that the grounds could handle, the staff

15 could handle, that the land, everything could handle.

16 I can't imagine we would have more than

17 that in one evening. And even for our summer events,

18 15 -- after doing these, I do not want more than 1,500

19 people on our property. So I think it would be good at

20 that number of 1,500 as a capacity.



23 (NONE)

24 Thank you.

25 Any further discussion?



1 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I guess

2 personally, if Jim feels very confident in what the

3 road can handle and what the sights is down there, I

4 don't have any other comments.

5 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: We would

6 just have to monitor it the first even and keep them

7 alerted, and they have to keep us alerted too.

8 MS. WILLIFORD: And something

9 we really try to bring our clients a specific way. So

10 on our website we have a direction option, and then

11 even all ticket holders will get sort of a welcome

12 e-mail about the event and we can have specific

13 directions.

14 And the way that we really like to take

15 people is through St. Clair, kind of right past Main

16 Street by Melissa's Cafe coming down Mill Hill Road

17 and four and a half miles almost straight shot to turn

18 right into our venue driveway. So that's the way we

19 really like to take people.

20 Of course, GPS takes people all sorts of

21 different ways, and it will get them there, but that

22 is the route we like to take them.



25 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: That



1 would be our preference you taking them that way.

2 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Any further

3 discussion?

4 (NONE)

5 It seems like the issues would be we have

6 12 conditions under original CUP, and we'd obviously

7 have to have that amended and however we want to word

8 this. We want to make this specific to the winter

9 months and the times.

10 And, Scottie, I don't know how we want to

11 word that. The first annual holiday experience

12 starting April 19th (sic) through January 2nd, and the

13 next one Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 5:00 to 10:00, last

14 admission at 9:15. And then a maximum capacity of

15 1,500.

16 MS. EAGAN: I mean, do we want

17 to get involved in the whole last admission thing? I

18 don't think we should.

19 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah, that we

20 could leave that out and close at 10:00.

21 MS. EAGAN: Then I would just

22 leave it as January because it could fluctuate each

23 year. It might not always be the 2nd. It could be

24 the 3rd or --

25 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: What if



1 you said the first weekend in January.

2 MS. EAGAN: Right.

3 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: Because

4 New Year's Even is one weekend, and Christmas. So if

5 we say the first weekend in January. At least you're

6 not going to be open for the whole month of January.

7 MS. EAGAN: Right.

8 CHAIRMAN EVANS: So they'd be

9 open Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 5:00 to 10:00 p.m.

10 And it would be -- she has November 19th,

11 so we just want to put that date or just say November

12 through the first weekend of January?

13 COMMISSIONER HARTMANN: Sounds

14 good to me.

15 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: Yeah.

16 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: Yeah.

17 CHAIRMAN EVANS: With the

18 maximum capacity of 1,500.

19 Anyone think of anything else to add or

20 anything they disagree with with those conditions?

21 MS. EAGAN: Did you leave it at

22 10:00 p.m.?

23 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah, 10:00

24 p.m.

25 MS. EAGAN: Knowing staff would



1 be there later cleaning up, you guys are okay with

2 that?

3 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah. I would

4 think, yeah, that the event would go to 10:00 p.m. So

5 you assume there'd be cleanup afterwards. And we'll

6 just, as you mentioned, drop the last admission.

7 And this would all be specific to the

8 Grove of Lights Holiday Experience.

9 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Could

10 Scottie read the conditions back to us, please?

11 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah.

12 MS. EAGAN: Hold on one second.

13 Okay. So we have all activities shall

14 run April through the first weekend of January. We're

15 amending number 7.

16 And then we're adding number 13, hours of

17 operation for events held in November through the

18 first weekend of January shall be Friday, Saturday and

19 Sunday from 5:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m.

20 And then the maximum number of guests for

21 events that run November through the first weekend of

22 January shall be limited to 1,500 people.

23 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I think that

24 covers it.

25 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: The only



1 other thing would be lighting out on the road at the

2 entrance.

3 CHAIRMAN EVANS: And once they

4 get on the road, we can't --

5 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: I mean,

6 I don't know if you police it. They can't put lights

7 on the road. I'd have to put them on the road. I'm

8 not going to do that.

9 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: If you

10 want to see the sign, you're going to have to put

11 lighting on it for the event. Otherwise, people are

12 going to go by it.

13 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: They can

14 light up the entrance all they want.

15 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: That's

16 what I was talking about.


18 discussion? Do the set of conditions sound all right?

19 And that would be as we say, we have the

20 -- all the other conditions will stay the same except

21 7 and 8. And when this CUP is -- correct me if I'm

22 wrong -- is slightly different than this CUP is with

23 the owner of the land and not the parcel.

24 So if the owner changes hands, the CUP is

25 void.



1 MS. EAGAN: Correct.

2 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Where most of

3 the CUPs go with the land, this goes with the owner.

4 So if she sells it, the CUP is void.

5 MS. EAGAN: Now, I didn't modify

6 number 8. I just added number 13, which are the hours

7 of operation for these specific events.

8 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah.

9 November, December, okay.

10 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I'd make

11 a motion to move this to Old Business.

12 COMMISSIONER HARTMANN: Second

13 it.


15 motion and a second to move File 180257 to Unfinished

16 Business. All in favor signify by saying aye.














3 (NONE)

4 Motion is carried.

5 Moving back to Unfinished Business, we

6 have File 210230, Planning and Zoning. Any further

7 discussion?

8 (NONE)

9 If not, the Chair would entertain a

10 motion again to a recommendation for approval or

11 denial to the Commission.

12 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: I'll move

13 that we take File 210230 and recommend approval to the

14 new zoning district.

15 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Second.

16 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I have a

17 motion and second to recommend approval of File

18 210230. All in favor signify by saying aye.














5 (NONE)

6 The motion is carried.

7 Moving on to File 210209, Swann Sales

8 Consulting. Any further discussion?

9 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: I'd

10 like to comment that what Commissioner Grutsch brought

11 up about the property being in a floodplain, in my

12 mind, that takes care of the problems were brought up

13 about the R zoning. Some of the things listed that

14 are approved activities in that R zoning would not be

15 approved in a floodplain.

16 So I'm in favor.

17 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I would say

18 this is probably the appropriate zoning. It's just

19 that I don't like the fact that it's -- it would be

20 the only R there and spot zoning and preexisted, but

21 if it would serve the surrounding community, again

22 like Debbie mentioned, it -- being in the floodplain

23 probably precludes a lot of the permitted uses.

24 And again this is a recommendation to the

25 Commission. They'll have the final say. So we'll



1 give them our opinion, and let them decide.

2 MS. EAGAN: Bill, can I just

3 clarify. Even though it's floodplain, people can

4 still build in it. They would just need to get a

5 floodplain development permit and elevation

6 certificate. So just by saying it's in the

7 floodplain, it's not allowed. That's not necessarily

8 true.

9 CHAIRMAN EVANS: All right. So

10 we just affect different things, I assume, even

11 insurance and those type of things were needed.

12 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: You

13 would not find a medical marijuana dispensary being

14 built.

15 MS. EAGAN: That's correct.

16 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: You

17 would not find a number of the things that are in R

18 zoning being built in a floodplain. But Scottie is

19 saying it could be -- could be.

20 MS. EAGAN: Possibility.

21 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: But the

22 likelihood is pretty remote.

23 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: You know

24 we're getting to where we're parsing stuff here, so I

25 like parsing.



1 Is it a floodplain or is it a floodway,

2 is it the 100-year floodplain or is it 500-year

3 floodplain?

4 MS. EAGAN: It's definitely

5 100-year floodplain. As far as floodway, I wouldn't

6 know unless I got on FEMA's map.

7 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: You know

8 it's pretty easy to correct a 100-year floodplain.

9 MS. EAGAN: It is Pin Oak Creek

10 that runs right behind it.


12 Chairman, if I may make a motion --

13 CHAIRMAN VANS: Yeah.

14 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: -- to

15 recommend to the Commission that they approve the

16 applicant's request for R zoning.


18 second that.


20 motion and a second to recommend approval of rezoning

21 on File 210209. All in favor signify by saying aye.












6 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Nay.

7 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Nay.

8 CHAIRMAN EVANS: The motion is

9 approved.

10 Moving on to File 180257, Williford,

11 Samantha, Lost Hill Lake Events.

12 Any further discussion?

13 (NONE)

14 I think we all understood the conditions

15 we added. Does anybody need to have them reread, or

16 are they acceptable?

17 If there is no further discussion, the

18 Chair would entertain a motion.


20 Chairman, real quick discussion.

21 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Sure.

22 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: So this

23 doesn't have to go to the -- when we do this, this is

24 done tonight?

25 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah, we do it



1 and it's done.

2 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: But they

3 are going to have the ability to do this this year?


5 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: That's

6 my only question.


8 Again, we're just modifying the

9 regulations. The rezoning is a legislative act that

10 has to go to the Commission. The CUPs are us.


12 Chairman, I'd make a motion to modify the CUP on File

13 180257 with the change of conditions effective now.

14 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: I'll

15 second that.


17 motion and a second to approve File 180257 with the

18 modifications as previously read by Planning and

19 Zoning Director.

20 All in favor signify by saying aye.














7 (NONE)

8 Motion is carried.

9 Preliminary Plats. We have none.

10 Planning and Zoning Commission Forum.

11 Anything the Commissioners would like to discuss?

12 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: I do want

13 to just bring one thing. I know Scottie's is not

14 going to like this, but in looking that we can't do

15 sales and service in the B Zoning District and we look

16 where we have it up and down 50 and 100, in areas

17 where I know there's grandfathering up that way

18 through all that.

19 That doesn't make sense to me really,

20 that maybe we should have a CUP in that -- in that

21 zoning district because, to me, it doesn't make sense.

22 MS. EAGAN: Well, I can tell

23 you what our thought process is so you can do service

24 in the B District. You just can't do sales.

25 Our though process was we wanted to have



1 people to have the ability to get their cars serviced

2 in the majority of the county. But as far as sales,

3 we thought those should stick to the major highways

4 that are closer to major -- major cities in Franklin

5 County.

6 That was our thought process when we did

7 it back in 2014, but if you guys are wanting to amend

8 it, we can for sure work on that for November.

9 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: I mean out

10 of those little markers you made for a small car lot

11 or whatever or tractor dealership wanting to sell some

12 stuff, I mean, that's what's going on right now.

13 MS. EAGAN: Well, and tractors

14 are different than automobiles.

15 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: I know.

16 MS. EAGAN: So --

17 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: But I'm

18 just saying that, you know, there might be a need to

19 do that because I don't want to be changing those B

20 Districts all the time because -- you know, in this

21 particular case, I can see why he selected that one.

22 But going forward, I mean, we have a

23 large corridors and busy highways here are going to

24 develop over the next 20 years. And do we have the

25 right, you know, area, you know.



1 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Once

2 again, I would like to agree with Dan. This is pretty

3 exceptional. I would have liked to have voted for the

4 B District or the CUP. That's really what I would

5 have liked to have done.

6 And say, you know, you can have this many

7 trailers for sale, and you can have this many trailers

8 for rent so that we don't affect the neighbors.

9 That was my concern, is I would have love

10 to say you could have six trailers for sale and twelve

11 trailers for rent. And by the way, they're going to

12 be underneath your storage facility and any way that

13 you're keeping track of them. And I think that that

14 would have been --

15 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: And none

16 of these are going to be big where they're located at.

17 We're talking about a relatively small business.

18 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Exactly.

19 I just don't want to see a buyer buy one of these out

20 there.


22 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I mean

23 that's -- that's -- that was my thought pattern or

24 whatever the other one is in south county or --

25 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah, I agree



1 because with the CUP, is one thing I don't like, I'm

2 sure Scottie doesn't like this when you get into

3 almost the spot zoning when you have all these little

4 spots you're going to pick out or if you have to

5 rezone them and you don't have another option like a

6 CUP.

7 Then it just kind of destroys the

8 continuity that's going to be B or R or W. Let it be

9 that with we have to modify those for some exceptions.

10 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Or

11 ultimately we want to support the businesses and the

12 development of the county, but we also got to support

13 the property owners that live there.

14 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Exactly. Which

15 is they already -- we also get into the issue was like

16 we have 53 permitted uses. So we look at all 53 have

17 an option. That we don't want to go back to the old

18 world where we have conditional use permits on

19 everything. What you're trying to get away, but

20 obviously in certain situations, it's appropriate.

21 MS. EAGAN: And that's just

22 what I want to stress, is you know, we went this route

23 of more permitted uses in more districts than

24 conditional because the staffing issue of enforcing

25 the conditions is just next to impossible in my



1 department.

2 But if you guys want, I mean, you guys

3 will have to tell me if you want me to draft an

4 amendment to include some motor vehicle sales as

5 conditional use or permitted in B.

6 CHAIRMAN EVANS: We can have

7 her do that or discuss it at the next meeting.

8 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Yeah, I

9 just kind of wanted to bring it up, and I think it's

10 worth further discussion.

11 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah, I mean,

12 that -- and that's our responsibility, is to if we see

13 something like this, to give our input so the

14 Commission can look at it. It's part of our job.

15 That's why we get paid the bucks.

16 MS. EAGAN: So if you guys

17 want, probably one of the things I was going to talk

18 about in my report I'm toying with amendments to our

19 Code to address what we consider mobile storage, which

20 are shipping containers.

21 I haven't decided which route I'm going

22 with those yet. They'll come before you in November.

23 I don't know if we'll do them just as temporary

24 storage or a lot of that has a lot of restrictions on

25 it or not. But if you want me to have a draft



1 available to present to you to vote on for motor

2 retail sales, we can do it that same month.

3 We don't have anything scheduled for

4 October. So if you want, I can draft an amendment.

5 You guys can discuss that night, either vote it up,

6 vote it down. We can move it on. It's up to you.

7 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Consensus,

8 Commissioners?

9 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: We don't

10 have anything in October?

11 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I think

12 we could do it in November, Scottie.

13 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: I think

14 so too.


16 know that I'm going to be very supportive of shipping

17 containers for storage buildings. I mean, that's --

18 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: They're

19 becoming all over the county.

20 MS. EAGAN: They're becoming a

21 huge issue, and we need to address it. Right now

22 we've prohibit them. We have tons of arguments and

23 situations where it's this person gets to do this,

24 this person gets to do that. And it's just becoming a

25 nightmare. So --



1 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: But is

2 that on private property, that's not for rental, is

3 it?

4 MS. EAGAN: Correct. Some of

5 them I think do rent them out, but we can't prove it.

6 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: No. I

7 just look at some property and they had a couple on

8 it.

9 CHAIRMAN EVANS: There's a

10 complaint been filed in my township with -- with

11 shipping containers on property, among other things,

12 but shipping containers.

13 MS. EAGAN: And the issue we

14 have is there's a business in New Haven that sells

15 them to people for storage. And then they get a

16 violation notice from us. They argue at us because a

17 business in Franklin County sold it to them.

18 MS. HOLDMEIER: But the

19 business isn't in city limits.


21 biggest culprits are Lowes and Schnuck's and the big

22 box stores because of Walmart. There's 50 of them --

23 MS. EAGAN: They have them all

24 the time.

25 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: -- line



1 up all the time.

2 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Uh-huh.


4 cities don't enforce that. They don't even address

5 it.

6 MS. EAGAN: Right. So that's

7 why I don't know how I'm addressing it yet.

8 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: And I

9 don't know how you address it on private property.

10 MS. EAGAN: Well, it's

11 considered mobile storage at this point, and that's

12 not permitted in Franklin County.

13 MS. HOLDMEIER: Which is why

14 the rezoning we made the comment that we did.

15 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah. So

16 right now it is not allowed. Scottie would have to

17 come up with something to change it. It's not

18 permitted.

19 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: Could you

20 live in it?

21 MS. EAGAN: If you can meet all

22 the building codes for a single-family dwelling.

23 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: I was

24 going to say well, I got something e-mailed the other

25 day about survival places where they actually bury it.



1 They buried it and boy it looks pretty neat.

2 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: There

3 was a whole lot of them up in North Dakota in the oil

4 business. And they actually put four of them together

5 and call them a four-plex.

6 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah, I've

7 seen them up on DYI on TV.

8 MS. EAGAN: Yeah. I don't

9 agree with living in them, but if they meet the

10 building code, I can't stop them.


12 they are allowed in Franklin County with -- on a

13 temporary basis. If you're building a home and you --

14 MS. EAGAN: Technically they're

15 not.

16 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: -- park

17 one of those there to store your building materials

18 like a work box.

19 MS. EAGAN: It just depends on

20 who you are at this point.

21 (CROSSTALK)

22 That's why I need a regulation.

23 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: And I

24 know you do. There was some examples I heard today,

25 was through the Building Department. Says, no, that's



1 okay. You can store stuff. On a temporary basis.

2 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: Did they

3 define temporary?

4 MS. EAGAN: As long as you get

5 a building permit.

6 COMMISSIONER GRUTSCH: So you

7 pay a $25 building permit and you keep it there

8 forever.

9 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I mean,

10 on almost every job I'm on has got one wanted for a

11 lock box or a construction office. You know, you put

12 a window and a door in it, and you're good.

13 MS. EAGAN: Yeah, it's a

14 struggle.

15 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah. It's

16 the ones like down 90 where they just put it on the

17 property, and have a camper and don't know what

18 they're using it for. Nothing productive for sure,

19 not a business.

20 MS. EAGAN: Yeah, I think Jason

21 went out on one today because they had six shipping

22 containers between the actual shipping containers and

23 just, you know, the back of a semi-trailer on their

24 property that they were using for storage. And it's a

25 violation.



1 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Well, leave

2 that in your capable hands, Scottie.

3 MS. EAGAN: That's why we're

4 waiting till November.

5 CHAIRMAN EVANS: And so we have

6 nothing scheduled right now for October?

7 MS. EAGAN: Yeah, the deadline

8 was yesterday. So we won't have an October meeting.

9 November, like I said, we should have at least nine

10 amendments if you guys -- I don't think we want to do

11 the amendments? I don't think we ever addressed that

12 for motor vehicle sales.

13 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I think we

14 wanted to discuss if you could do a draft.

15 MS. EAGAN: Then you could

16 discuss it that night?

17 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Yeah, discuss

18 it that night, but just kind of give us an skeleton of

19 it.

20 MS. EAGAN: Yeah. I'd like to

21 do it sooner than later. I am expecting another child

22 next February. So I would like to not have any

23 amendments while I'm gone. I haven't broke the news

24 yet to the gentleman who will be coming to the

25 meeting. So I'll have to train him on how do



1 everything up here. So -- Crystal will still be here,

2 but she won't be running the meetings.

3 COMMISSIONER WILLETTE: Well,

4 congratulations.

5 CHAIRMAN EVANS:

6 Congratulations.


8 Chairman, since Scottie is here. Are we considering

9 motor vehicles and travel trailers to be the same

10 thing in this conversation?

11 MS. EAGAN: I believe we

12 address them as one.

13 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Are we

14 considered something with a license on it, is that...

15 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: We had a

16 discussion on those when we did it, what would

17 qualify, because I think the discussion came on

18 building a house and, you know, how long can I live

19 here temporarily and all that. I think we have that

20 somewhere in -- I don't remember where we put it.

21 MS. EAGAN: So the only -- our

22 definition of motor vehicle sales is the use of any

23 building or portion thereof or other premises or

24 portion thereof or the display, sale or lease of new

25 or used motor vehicles.



1 And then our definition of a motor

2 vehicle is a self-propelled device used for the

3 transportation of people or goods over land surfaces

4 and licensed as a motor vehicle.

5 So I believe it falls under that

6 category.

7 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: I can't

8 -- how would a travel trailer fall under it?

9 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: No,

10 there's no way. A travel trailer wouldn't.

11 COMMISSIONER HARTMANN: No.

12 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: One that

13 could drive and --

14 MS. EAGAN: Oh, I guess that's

15 the only one I was thinking of.

16 CHAIRMAN EVANS: A Class A,

17 Class A.


19 understand that. So what we just did today is --

20 would that --

21 COMMISSIONER HAIRE: That

22 wouldn't be eligible then unless we define it

23 differently.

24 MS. EAGAN: We had another

25 category.



1 CHAIRMAN EVANS: I think you

2 want it to be a closed entity, self-propelled and

3 licensed and capable of operating on the public roads.

4 MS. EAGAN: Mark, what would

5 you classify that as?

6 COUNTY ATTORNEY PIONTEK: Let's

7 see.

8 MS. EAGAN: Because the only

9 thing we addressed in here was like RVs is just the RV

10 parks.

11 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Could you take

12 your shipping container to an RV park for two weeks?

13 MS. EAGAN: No.

14 CHAIRMAN EVANS: Well, at least

15 just something that could be researched or whatever

16 since we're not going to --

17 COMMISSIONER McLAREN: Motion

18 to adjourn.


20 motion to adjourn. Do we have a second?

21 COMMISSIONER KLENKE: I'll

22 second it.

23 CHAIRMAN EVANS: All in favor

24 signify by saying aye.














11 (NONE)

12 We are adjourned.

13 (THEREUPON, THE PROCEEDING

14 CONCLUDED AT 8:42 P.M.)

15 o8o

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25



1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER

2 STATE OF MISSOURI ) ) SS

3 COUNTY OF FRANKLIN )

4 I, PATSY A. MAYBERRY, Professional Court

5 Reporter and Notary Public within and for the State of

6 Missouri, before whom the foregoing proceeding was

7 taken telephonically, do hereby swear that: the

8 aforementioned was held at the time and in the place

9 previously described; the witness whose testimony

10 appears in the foregoing transcript was duly sworn by

11 me; the proceedings were taken down in stenographic

12 notes by me and transcribed by me, or under my

13 supervision, to the best of my ability; that I am

14 neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any

15 of the parties to the action in which this testimony

16 was taken; further that I am not a relative or

17 employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the

18 parties thereto, nor financially or otherwise

19 interested in the outcome of the action; and that the

20 aforementioned represents a true and accurate

21 transcript of said proceedings.

22 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set

23 my hand.

24 ________________________________Patsy A. Mayberry, Court Reporter

25 Notary Public, State of Missouri





Aa.m 53:23 54:1

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adjourn 90:1890:20

adjourned 91:12ADJOURNME...

3:15Adjustment

9:13Administrator

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48:16 63:1866:14,17 68:6

adopted 14:1518:7

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14:3 17:2,1592:10

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17:18 18:931:22 42:1543:1 45:24,2546:21,23 47:447:12 50:1458:13 64:22

applicant's44:19 74:16

applicants 42:1application

32:11 42:6Applications

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20:16 31:1236:15 54:872:18 80:20

approval 2:642:23 71:10,1371:17 74:20

approve 9:219:23 10:219:22 34:242:15 44:1874:15 76:17

approved 10:1627:5 30:239:19 72:14,1575:9

approximately13:12,15 16:1316:17 17:4 46:446:7,14

April 47:253:20 66:1268:14

area 14:5 16:1619:20 21:19,2223:8 24:227:17,23 30:436:14 38:1239:21 41:2546:6 50:5,16

51:3 52:1,7,1052:15 53:3,1556:12,22 61:261:7 78:25

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audience 8:229:4

August 2:6 9:1910:2

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25:5automobiles

43:10 78:14available 41:19

50:5 82:1Avenue 13:12,21



aware 19:12awful 43:1 60:4

60:6,7aye 10:3,4,5,6,7

10:8,9,10,11,1210:13 11:7,8,911:10,11,12,1311:14,15,16 12:812:9,10,11,12,1312:14,15,16,1712:18 15:16,1715:18,19,20,2115:22,23,2415:25 16:145:8,9,10,11,1245:13,14,15,1645:17,18 70:1670:17,18,19,2070:21,22,2370:24,25 71:171:18,19,20,2171:22,23,2471:25 72:1,2,374:21,22,2374:24,25 75:175:2,3,476:20,21,2276:23,24,2577:1,2,3,4,590:24,25 91:191:2,3,4,5,6,791:8,9

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71:5 78:780:17 86:23

backed 49:22Backes 22:1

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51:21Backus 22:2bar 48:24 50:9based 42:12basically 53:18

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85:13 86:1bathrooms

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Board 9:12 23:1boat 38:1

boats 32:24Boeuf 16:15bonfires 48:23bottom 32:14boundaries

46:18box 83:22

85:18 86:11boy 85:1brain 55:10Branson 37:12

37:13 38:25brief 19:7 37:17bring 30:25

52:19 65:977:13 81:9

bringing 56:1,2broke 87:23Brook 17:9brought 44:4

72:10,12bucks 81:15build 19:16 20:1

20:6,8,10,1222:24 73:4

building 14:1217:12 18:421:12 25:8,843:16 84:2285:10,13,17,2586:5,7 88:1888:23

buildings 24:2382:17

built 17:13 24:1824:24 25:273:14,18

buried 85:1bury 84:25bus 30:21 31:3business 2:10

2:15,17,23 3:98:15,17,18 9:69:7,16 13:1,215:9,12,1619:20 20:14,1822:12,14 27:12

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busy 78:23buy 79:19buyer 79:19

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carried 16:4 71:472:6 77:8

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case 4:8 8:8,8

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46:5certain 80:20certificate 3:16

73:6 92:1Chair 9:20 15:7

71:9 75:18chairman 5:3

6:3,8 7:9 9:1710:1,8,14,18,1810:19,21,2411:2,3,4,6,1711:20,23 12:212:6,13,19,2014:23 15:11,1415:21 16:2 18:818:17 19:323:22,2526:19 27:11,1628:2 31:2132:9,17,2233:7,23 34:1234:22 35:4,1035:21 36:1037:1 38:2339:1 40:4,8,1940:23 41:2,641:9,17 44:544:21 45:6,1345:19 47:11,2450:13 53:1854:6,15,1657:17 58:8,1259:4,8,16,1960:1,21 62:2263:6,11 64:364:21 65:2466:2,19 67:867:17,23 68:368:11,23 69:3



69:17 70:2,870:14,21 71:271:16,23 72:472:17 73:974:12,13,19,2575:5,8,20,2175:25 76:4,776:12,16,2577:6 79:2580:14 81:6,1182:7 83:984:15 85:686:15 87:1,587:13,17 88:588:8 89:1690:1,11,14,1990:23 91:4,10

chairmanship11:24

CHAMBERS 1:3change 14:9

18:1 41:13 42:744:19 59:3,659:10 62:1676:13 84:17

changes 56:469:24

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charged 44:8check 29:8

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63:15Christmas 56:9

58:2,7 67:4cities 78:4 84:4city 13:24 23:1

83:19Clair 13:24

47:16 48:3,948:10 65:15

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55:9clarify 73:3Class 89:16,17classification

32:20classify 90:5clean 31:1 37:23

63:22cleaned 64:2cleaning 68:1cleanup 68:5clients 65:9close 11:2,4 12:5

12:7 35:2239:14 59:1263:7 66:20

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65:16 87:24Commencing

1:13comment 8:23

37:18 39:772:10 84:14

comments 2:82:13,22 3:89:4,9 12:2214:2 17:17 34:839:8 65:4

commercial14:3,20 17:12

20:18 21:19,2122:11,11,1225:8,8 36:149:13,15

Commission 1:11:3 3:13 4:176:5 7:21,248:20 9:3,3,69:10,11 12:2313:3 34:236:21 39:941:23 42:2244:9,15,17,1857:9 71:1172:25 74:1576:10 77:1081:14

Commissioner5:5,6,7,8,9,105:11,12 6:10,126:14,16,18,206:22,25 7:3,69:22,24 10:410:5,6,7,9,1010:11,12,13,2010:22 11:1,5,811:9,10,11,12,1311:14,15,16,2211:25 12:4,9,1012:11,12,14,1512:16,17,1815:10,13,17,1815:19,20,2215:23,24,2516:1 23:23,2424:5,7,11,14,1724:21 25:3,1525:21 26:1,4,726:13,16 27:728:4,8,11,1729:10,17,2131:11,15,2333:11,13 34:2435:2,14,17,2435:25 36:4,636:8 39:10,1740:1,12 41:24

42:13,24,2544:16,23 45:245:4,9,10,11,1245:14,15,16,1745:18 50:1550:23 51:5,2051:25 52:13,1853:5,11,1754:14,17 55:255:8,19,22,2557:8 59:2560:11,17 61:1,1561:20,21 62:1762:18,25 63:965:1,5,23,2566:25 67:3,1367:15,16 68:968:25 69:5,969:13,15 70:1070:12,17,18,1970:20,22,2370:24,25 71:171:12,15,19,2071:21,22,2471:25 72:1,2,372:9,10 73:1273:16,21,2374:7,11,14,1774:22,23,2475:1,2,3,4,6,775:19,22 76:276:5,11,14,2176:22,23,2477:1,2,3,4,5,1278:9,15,17 79:179:15,18,21,2280:10 81:882:9,11,13,1582:18 83:1,683:20,2584:2,3,8,19,2385:2,11,16,2386:2,6,9 88:388:7,13,1589:7,9,11,12,1889:21 90:17,2190:25 91:1,2,3

91:5,6,7,8,9Commissioners

2:4 5:2 7:119:18 14:2423:22 36:1958:22 77:1182:8

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compatible22:25

complaint 83:10con- 25:4concern 29:22

57:1 59:2262:12 79:9

concerned38:14

concerning 9:99:11

CONCLUDED91:14

conclusion 9:8concur 33:14

39:11condition 47:1

59:14 60:2060:22

conditional 9:1229:7,16 40:940:17 41:14,1846:10,21,2447:1,6,9 80:1880:24 81:5

conditions 14:717:24 53:1954:3 58:25



66:6 67:2068:10 69:1869:20 75:1476:13 80:25

conduct 20:14conference

35:18confident 65:2conflict 7:12

23:12 25:6confusing 55:10congratulations

12:21 88:4,6Consensus

82:7conserving 14:11

18:3consider 7:14

19:8 34:743:25 81:19

considered17:13 34:1984:11 88:14

considering88:8

consistent 30:3construction

56:20 86:11Consulting 2:18

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17:20 19:1581:20 82:1783:11,12 86:2286:22

containment50:16

continue 26:17CONTINUED

3:2continuity 80:8continuous 19:11conundrum

41:21,25conversation

88:10

copy 9:19 47:8correct 13:17

14:21 34:15,2342:6,9 69:2170:1 73:1574:8 83:4

corrections9:20

corridor 14:19corridors 78:23counsel 5:16

92:14,17country-wide

13:18county 1:1,2 4:3

4:4 5:17 6:57:21 14:8,11,1517:21,25 18:3,719:18 20:1922:21,2236:21 42:8,2244:18 46:1349:14,22 51:2152:23 57:662:1,12,1278:2,5 79:2480:12 82:1983:17 84:1285:12 90:692:3

County's 52:19couple 32:1,7

83:7course 65:20Court 92:4,24covenants

25:12,17,19covered 20:6covers 68:24craft 49:2crafts 62:5create 22:17Creek 35:19

74:9CROSSTALK

85:21Crystal 5:15

88:1culprits 83:21CUP 39:12,23

40:5,11 41:1046:1 53:1954:22,2358:10 60:966:6 69:21,2269:24 70:476:12 77:2079:4 80:1,6

CUPs 54:2070:3 76:10

current 13:1620:22 22:2534:15

currently 11:2032:1 34:2349:15 50:19

customer 30:24cycle 33:4

DD 2:1 3:1 4:8 6:1

8:9,14Dakota 85:3Dan 5:4 6:11

11:21,23 12:2133:15 39:1179:2

Dan's 39:12dark 56:2,5,5

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84:25daylight 56:3,4days 9:13deadline 87:7deal 53:1dealership 78:11dealt 8:16Debbie 5:7 7:4

72:22

decades-old23:11

December 47:749:10 53:2259:14 70:9

decide 9:644:10 73:1

decided 81:21decision 9:10

42:16declarations

2:4 7:16declare 7:11decorative

31:25define 86:3

89:22definitely 38:4

56:22 57:474:4

definition 88:2289:1

denial 42:2371:11

Dennis 5:126:13

department9:15 13:7 81:185:25

depending57:25

depends 34:1685:19

described 92:9DESCRIPTION

4:2desire 8:3destroys 80:7detail 18:18,18develop 78:24development

20:21 73:580:12

device 89:2different 58:5

64:9 65:2169:22 73:10

78:14differently

89:23difficult 39:13,15

39:18direction 65:10directions 65:13directly 17:8

21:5 24:338:18

Director 5:1476:19

DIRECTOR'S3:14

disagree 67:20discuss 49:13

77:11 81:7 82:587:14,16,17

discussion 2:142:24 3:10 9:914:24 15:739:9 44:658:22 64:2566:3 69:1871:7 72:875:12,17,2081:10 88:16,17

dispensary73:13

display 88:24displays 56:24dispose 49:25district 13:9,10

16:11,12,2120:16,17 28:528:6,14,1529:5,12 30:1,630:12,14 31:431:12 32:2033:20 34:639:25 40:5,1641:19 42:1243:13 44:2046:2,9,1871:14 77:15,2177:24 79:4

districts 78:20



80:23DOCUMENTS

4:11,14doing 23:16

28:24 34:1737:23 43:2450:20 64:18

door 32:5 86:12draft 81:3,25

82:4 87:14draw 20:18drinks 50:9drive 16:15 17:3

22:8 26:2559:24 62:389:13

drive-thru 62:2driveway 65:18drop 68:6drug 48:24due 14:7 17:24duly 92:10Dumpsters 50:1dwelling 84:22DYI 85:7

EE 2:1,9 3:1 4:1

5:1,1 6:1,1e-mail 65:12e-mailed 84:24EAGAN 2:5,12

2:20 3:6 5:146:7,9,11,13,156:17,19,21,247:2,4,7,2013:5 16:724:25 29:5,1429:19 34:1635:1,6,12,16,1936:24 39:2440:3,7,15,2240:24 41:4,741:12 42:5,1042:21 44:2545:23 47:2254:2,10,24

55:4 59:2,559:13,17 60:860:12,19 66:1666:21 67:2,767:21,2568:12 70:1,573:2,15,2074:4,9 77:2278:13,16 80:2181:16 82:2083:4,13,2384:6,10,2185:8,14,1986:4,13,2087:3,7,15,2088:11,21 89:1489:24 90:4,890:13

earlier 19:10easement 17:4east 1:4 14:18

16:14 17:8 21:521:6 22:1,4

easy 74:8economical

14:12 18:4effective 76:13either 21:16

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91:13 92:6proceedings

2:2 3:3 92:1192:21

process 77:2377:25 78:6

productive86:18

professional19:17 20:1392:4

prohibit 82:22promote 14:9

18:1proper 50:11properly 50:1properties 13:11

13:20,21,2313:25 14:4,514:19 16:22,2421:21 22:1246:11 55:6

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31:24 49:9protecting 14:11

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20:13provided 8:25

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2:22 3:8 7:258:2,3,24 14:1418:6 44:1045:1 46:1764:10 90:392:5,25

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28:18 33:12,1439:22 54:1876:6

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RR 2:9 5:1 6:1

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63:24reality 62:8really 32:4

33:13 35:2237:21,25 38:338:9 43:2451:9,17 57:1963:24 65:9,1465:19 77:1979:4

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recommendat...19:9 34:1 44:944:15 71:1072:24

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85:22regulations 4:5

7:22 8:6 14:617:23 32:2176:9

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