vipergts Senior Member

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SAN 3 Truly Swiss Made

Hi Folks,

I am fortunate enough to have 4 SAN 3's and 1 SAS. 2 questions:

1) Is the SAN 3 100% Swiss made or is it one of those barely qualifies as Swiss Made

watches?

2) Why are base Subaqua watches not consdered "Reserve" ? The quality seems pretty high

(in fact better than certain reserve models)

3 Lastest Threads by vipergts

Thread Forum Last Poster Replies Views Last Post

SAN 3 Truly Swiss Made General Invicta Watch Discussions JNL 21 366 08-18-2010 08:19 PM

FS: Croton Limited Ed Tungsten Ceramic Skeleton... For Sale by Owner vipergts 1 193 08-14-2010 09:27 AM

FS: Croton PINEAPPLE Vortex Automatic ONLY $130 For Sale by Owner vipergts 2 492 08-13-2010 09:49 PM

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#2

Yesterday, 09:37 PM

unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Universal City, Texas (N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,631

Real Name: Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipergts

Hi Folks,

I am fortunate enough to have 4 SAN 3's and 1 SAS. 2 questions:

1) Is the SAN 3 100% Swiss made or is it one of those barely qualifies as Swiss Made

watches?

2) Why are base Subaqua watches not consdered "Reserve" ? The quality seems pretty

high (in fact better than certain reserve models)

First you must understand that there are only a handful of companies that make a

truely all Swiss Made watch...BTW Rolex doesn't even quailify.

1.Your Swiss Made Invictas meet and/or exceed the guidelines set forth by the

Federation of Swiss Horology.

2.The Subaqua Noma IIIs were designed before the Reserve Collection came to be...they were the inspiration for the Reserve collection.

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#3

Yesterday, 09:44 PM

vipergts Senior Member

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Posts: 502

Cool, thanks for the response. Do you know if elite watch manufacturers like Tag H,

Breitling, Omega, Cartier, SWI, Zenith, etc make true all swiss watches? I find it hard to believe that Rolex (best watch on the planet that money can buy) is not all swiss?

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclefixit

First you must understand that there are only a handful of companies that make a

truely all Swiss Made watch...BTW Rolex doesn't even quailify.

1.Your Swiss Made Invictas meet and/or exceed the guidelines set forth by the

Federation of Swiss Horology.

2.The Subaqua Noma IIIs were designed before the Reserve Collection came to be...they were the inspiration for the Reserve collection.

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#4

Yesterday, 09:55 PM

Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northern CA

Posts: 18,482 Real Name: Brad

Only a few Swiss brands source every component from Switzerland. Among them is Bedat

who created their own classification to that effect. A.O.S.C.

BEDAT & C° A.O.S.C.® CERTIFICATE

(Appellation d’Origine Suisse Certifiée – Swiss Certified Label of Origin)

To ensure the excellence of its Swiss components and skills, BEDAT & C° applies a strict

charter to each stage in the conception and production of its watches: the A.O.S.C®

(Appellation d’Origine Suisse Certifiée – Swiss Certified Label of Origin). Swiss watchmaking

expertise, acknowledged the world over, serves to guarantee quality in terms of technical aspects such as reliability, accuracy and shock-resistance; as well as aesthetic appeal by

means of original designs. This traditional craftsmanship is now adapted to incorporate new

technologies.

To earn this certification, each BEDAT & C° watch must meet the following criteria:

The conception and development of our watches is undertaken in Switzerland.

All of our movement parts are machined and finished exclusively in Switzerland. Our

cases are made exclusively in Switzerland.

The components of our watches that cannot be made in Switzerland stem exclusively from the European Community.

The watches carry the “8” maker’s mark.

The straps are hand-sewn.

The noble materials used in making our watches respect international conventions and are ethically “sound”.

The watches are assembled and tested in Switzerland.

This is the commitment made by BEDAT & C° regarding the quality of the products. __________________

If n = the number of watches you have, then n + 1 = the number of watches you need!

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#5

Yesterday, 10:54 PM

unclefixit Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Universal City, Texas (N.E. of San Antonio) Posts: 1,631

Real Name: Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipergts

Cool, thanks for the response. Do you know if elite watch manufacturers like Tag H,

Breitling, Omega, Cartier, SWI, Zenith, etc make true all swiss watches? I find it hard to believe that Rolex (best watch on the planet that money can buy) is not all swiss?

Of the companies you've listed only one IMHO even comes close to elite

status...Zenith.

While Rolex makes a nice watch, they are far from the best money can buy.

Might I suggest some reading material...Wristwatch Annual and Watches

International, both available from any good book store aswell as web vendors. Both are great sources of info on very highend timepieces.

But they do not limit themselves as to what companies they list in their books.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyback

Only a few Swiss brands source every component from Switzerland. Among them is Bedat who created their own classification to that effect. A.O.S.C.

BEDAT & C° A.O.S.C.® CERTIFICATE

(Appellation d’Origine Suisse Certifiée – Swiss Certified Label of Origin)

To ensure the excellence of its Swiss components and skills, BEDAT & C° applies a strict charter to each stage in the conception and production of its watches: the A.O.S.C®

(Appellation d’Origine Suisse Certifiée – Swiss Certified Label of Origin). Swiss

watchmaking expertise, acknowledged the world over, serves to guarantee quality in terms

of technical aspects such as reliability, accuracy and shock-resistance; as well as aesthetic appeal by means of original designs. This traditional craftsmanship is now adapted to

incorporate new technologies.

To earn this certification, each BEDAT & C° watch must meet the following criteria:

The conception and development of our watches is undertaken in Switzerland.

All of our movement parts are machined and finished exclusively in Switzerland.

Our cases are made exclusively in Switzerland.

The components of our watches that cannot be made in Switzerland stem

exclusively from the European Community. The watches carry the “8” maker’s mark.

The straps are hand-sewn.

The noble materials used in making our watches respect international conventions

and are ethically “sound”. The watches are assembled and tested in Switzerland.

This is the commitment made by BEDAT & C° regarding the quality of the products.

Thanks Brad, I couldn't remember Bedat to save my life.

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#6

Yesterday, 11:09 PM

fofj Member Member Geek

Join Date: Mar 2010

Location: New Jersey Posts: 78 Real Name: Frank

Thanks for the info guys. The wealth of knowledge on this site is incredible. And Bedat makes some sweet watches, definitely on my buy list.

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#7

Yesterday, 11:47 PM

Remembr When Senior Member

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Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pennsylvania

Posts: 223 Real Name: Matt

Quote:

Originally Posted by vipergts

Cool, thanks for the response. Do you know if elite watch manufacturers like Tag H,

Breitling, Omega, Cartier, SWI, Zenith, etc make true all swiss watches? I find it hard to believe that Rolex (best watch on the planet that money can buy) is not all swiss?

Rolexes are garbage compared to the Swiss Tourbillons. Rolexes may be expensive but the only thing they have going for them is the use of quality materials, as there's a lot of

automatic watches under $700 that are more accurate than Rolexes. The only thing you're

paying for when buying a Rolex is status, and the fact that they barely degrade in value, if at all. (Some times they even gain value!)

I'm not bashing Rolexes, I actually love Rolexes, but I'm just stating the facts.

EDIT:

Retail Price: $361,300.00 And that's just a titanium case, not gold. (In case you were wondering)

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#8

Today, 04:28 AM

Watchyourback Member

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Posts: 39

When it comes to certain brands and their real Swiss claims I live by the mantra trust but

confirm. You'd be surprised what you might find.

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#9

Today, 04:43 AM

BigJoe Original Past Ambassador

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Posts: 23,601

I think Brad has answered your question to the fullest I own a Bedat and could not agree

more.

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Take care and be safe. [ Big Joe ]

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#10

Today, 04:47 AM

TM Maker Senior Member Super Geek

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Posts: 1,436 Real Name: Rob

Great thread. Very interesting data.

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#11

Today, 04:53 AM

krayziehustler Senior Member Veteran Geek

Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New York,NY

Posts: 671

i believe Marathon SAR series are 100% Swiss Made, as that was part of the military

contract __________________

I'd rather be a lion for a day than a lamb that lives forever - Canibus

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#12

Today, 04:55 AM

zak98 Senior Member

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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 338

Real Name: mike

i agree, rolex not the best one can buy! for sure.. best marketing, best luxury brand.. argue-

able for sure. and for the money i can commit to watches, the brand i enjoy owning. but there are a lot of prestige brands out there that take quality, craftsmanship etc.. .to an

entirely different level! for me, in my little world of horology there are three levels:

basic luxury

prestige

so if you want to compare watches to sports cars.

basic = the timex's etc... of the world = camaros, mustangs etc..

luxury = rolexes, etc... of the world = corvettes, porshces, bmw etc...

prestige = patek p, VC, AP etc... of the world = rolls r., ferrari, etc...

again just my 2 cents.

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Rolex, Omega, Benrus, Poljot, Oceanaut, Lucien Picard, Tag Heuer, Invicta and Renato in my

collection...

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#13

Today, 06:03 AM

vipergts Senior Member Veteran Geek

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Great info, thanks very much guys!

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#14

Today, 06:11 AM

BabyDoc Senior Member

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Location: Beachwood, OHIO Posts: 997

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zak98

i agree, rolex not the best one can buy! for sure.. best marketing, best luxury brand.. argue-able for sure. and for the money i can commit to watches, the brand i enjoy owning.

but there are a lot of prestige brands out there that take quality, craftsmanship etc.. .to an

entirely different level! for me, in my little world of horology there are three levels:

basic luxury

prestige

so if you want to compare watches to sports cars.

basic = the timex's etc... of the world = camaros, mustangs etc..

luxury = rolexes, etc... of the world = corvettes, porshces, bmw etc...

prestige = patek p, VC, AP etc... of the world = rolls r., ferrari, etc...

again just my 2 cents.

The greatest thing going for Rolex is that there is the PERCEPTION that it is one of the

greatest Swiss watches. It therefore retains its value far better than most Swiss brands,

even though most watch experts will agree many other Swiss watches are better made

timepieces.

As a fountain pen collector, this reminds me how people THINK MontBlanc makes the

greatest fountain pens. For that reason, many of their limited edition fountain pens are

collector items and command premiums over other brands, with their far more rarer limited

editions, that are far better writing instruments. It is all a matter of supply and demand. In the case of the prestige brand names, there is often demand that goes beyond actual

quality. The prices then don't necessarily reflect the actual quality.

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#15

Today, 06:23 AM

PUCKSK8R Senior Member Master WatchGeek

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: On the Jersey Shore

Posts: 3,529 Real Name: Daren

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyDoc

The greatest thing going for Rolex is that there is the PERCEPTION that it is one of the

greatest Swiss watches. It therefore retains its value far better than most Swiss brands,

even though most watch experts will agree many other Swiss watches are better made timepieces.

As a fountain pen collector, this reminds me how people THINK MontBlanc makes the

greatest fountain pens. For that reason, many of their limited edition fountain pens are collector items and command premiums over other brands, with their far more rarer

limited editions, that are far better writing instruments. It is all a matter of supply and

demand. In the case of the prestige brand names, there is often demand that goes beyond

actual quality. The prices then don't necessarily reflect the actual quality.

Well said and you have just confirmed the power Marketing can have on any product.

Company's spend years on building consumer perception and Brand awareness. Look at Hyundai many years ago vs. where they stand in the Marketplace today.

The key here is also "efficacy". You can scream to the hilts that your product is this and that,

but at the end of the day if it does not deliver to the consumer, he/she will let you know with

their wallets. __________________

Class...Quelle heure est il? - Madame Eno (My 8th grade French Teacher)

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#16

Today, 06:49 AM

desert rex Senior Member

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You don't have to be a watch expert to figure out Rolex's strategy,any product that dumps

millions of dollars into endorsements and advertising,and continuously raises prices substantially gives the perception of greatness.If Hostess did that with the Twinkie back in

the 50's it would today sell for $30.00 a pack and be considered a delicacy.

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#17

Today, 06:54 AM

krayziehustler Senior Member

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Posts: 671

Quote:

Originally Posted by desert rex

You don't have to be a watch expert to figure out Rolex's strategy,any product that dumps

millions of dollars into endorsements and advertising,and continuously raises prices substantially gives the perception of greatness.If Hostess did that with the Twinkie back in

the 50's it would today sell for $30.00 a pack and be considered a delicacy.

LMAO!!!!!! You win!

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#18

Today, 08:55 AM

FloridaGary Senior Member

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Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 584

Real Name: Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remembr When

Rolexes are garbage compared to the Swiss Tourbillons. Rolexes may be expensive but

the only thing they have going for them is the use of quality materials, as there's a lot of automatic watches under $700 that are more accurate than Rolexes. The only thing you're

paying for when buying a Rolex is status, and the fact that they barely degrade in value, if

at all. (Some times they even gain value!)

I'm not bashing Rolexes, I actually love Rolexes, but I'm just stating the facts.

EDIT:

Retail Price: $361,300.00

And that's just a titanium case, not gold. (In case you were wondering)

Matt - you called Rolex garbage then said you're not bashing them. Man, I'd hate to see

what you say about watches you really bash! Just sayin' __________________

Too many watches, not enough time.

Chase Durer, Invicta, Omega, Orient, Poljot, Rolex, Seiko, Vostok Europe

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#19

Today, 11:52 AM

Remembr When Senior Member Senior Geek

Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pennsylvania

Posts: 223 Real Name: Matt

I meant that in the respect that he said Rolexes were the best money can buy, where this is

certainly not true when compared to watches like Swiss Tourbillons. Haha. __________________

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#20

Today, 12:23 PM

CHUCK WAGON Senior Member

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Well thats news to me. Interesting stuff.

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#21

Today, 12:29 PM

jskelton WatchGeeks Owner True WatchGeek

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 15,386 Real Name: "Diamond Jim" Skelton

Unless you're buying Breguet, Bedat, JLC, Patek, Girard Perregaux or the like... you're not

ever buying a "100% Swiss Watch" because only about 5 or 6 brands are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT Swiss made.

Everyone else deals with non-Swiss components or manufacture on some level, but fall

within the large gray area of the Swiss Federation Guidelines to call it Swiss Made. So yes, if you buy any number of brands and spend $5k, $10k, $50k on their watch... it may still have

a Chinese case, bracelet, dial, crystal or hands.

People really get off on "Swiss Made" and never truly understand what it actually means. Just enjoy your watches for what they are, it is quite obvious that Chinese components (and

assembly in some cases) is not inferior to Swiss at all... because that $5k Swiss Made watch

on your wrist has some right there...

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#22

Today, 02:05 PM

JNL Senior Member Super Geek

Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kansas City MO

Posts: 2,048 Real Name: Jeff

Ya, What Jim said!!!

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