STORM WATER DRAINAGE UPDATE

Below is an update regarding the storm water runoff

issues we are facing.

Our HOA Board-elect is working on an ALL RESIDENTS

MEETING to discuss these issues.

If you have any questions regarding the below

correspondence contact: info@claymontsprings.com. All

email regarding questions/concerns will be published for

all residents to discuss.

I will open a new forum on the website so you can openly

voice your questions/concerns. Below is the forum site.

http://gardensatclaymontsprings.blogspot.com/

The Gardens at Claymont Springs

Communication with Government Officials addressing Storm Water Issues and

their corrective measures/financial responsibility

This includes the emails not the countless phone calls.

(not all email correspondence is listed below, just the informative ones)

Terry M Minter

March 21st, 2017 – Call to MSD

Phone call made to MSD regarding concrete trucks dumping concrete in the road drains.

Within in one hour of the complaint Bob Pifine of MSD made a site visit then contacted Mr.

Moore the Industrial Programs Manager of MSD. Mr. Moore that same evening called and

explained that it was not their sewer system, it’s a storm water drain regulated by the Oldham

County engineer’s office.

March 22nd, 2017 Mr. Moore’s email response:

Mr. Minter,

I tried to call the Oldham County Engineer (also the Stormwater Manager) and did not have any

success so I emailed him regarding the construction site issues. The point of contact in OC is

Scott Harris at (502) 222-1476 or email at sharris@oldhamcountyky.gov. I gave him your

contact information.

If you have any more questions or need assistance, please give me a call.

Email sent to Scott Harris

NO RESPONSE

Email sent to Oldham County Judge Executive David Voegele

NO RESPONSE

MSD:

Mr. Moore follows up with a phone call and ask if we have heard anything from Oldham County

engineer’s office, he has not. He stated he was concerned because he is an Oldham County

resident and was curious about the service.

Several attempts to email and call Mr. Harris has failed.

March 23rd, 2017 - Phone contact made with Scott Harris

He said he was addressing issues with the concrete trucks putting concrete in storm water

drains. I ask him about the curbing and the lack of curb drains and was immediately

disconnected

March 24th, 2017

Stop work order issued.

March 27th – First email set to Representative Jason Nemes

March 29th, 2017 email from Mike Moore (MSD)

Terry,

I talked to Victor Peak, Construction Inspector, this morning. He stated Claymont Springs has a

current cease and desist order but all violations have been corrected. He also stated he has had

Division of Water Inspector’s on site. Victor’s phone number is (502) 222-1476. I would

recommend contacting him between 7:30 AM and 8:00 AM so you can catch him before he goes

out into the field.

I left a message for Mr. Peak – NO RESPONSE

March 30th, 2017 – State Representative Jason Nemes

Third email sent asking for assistance.

NO RESPONSE

March 31st, 2017

Release of order to stop work issued.

April 4th, 2017

Representative Nemes calls and sets up an onsite meeting

April 8th, Onsite visit with Representative Jason Nemes

At the meeting – Betty Minter, Ann Bowlds and myself. Viewed the blueprints and a short walk-

thru and agreed we have a problem. Rep. Nemes said he would call the County Judge and see

what he could do

April 20th, 2017 – email from Scott Harris

Email response from Scott Harris (Oldham County Engineer) after three unanswered emails.

Mr. Minter,

Thanks for contacting and asking for help with your issues, but be clear, this is the first email I

have from you. Many other residents of the Gardens at Claymont Springs have contacted my

department and I have personally talked to several of them and I have even had a few site visits.

I even talked with you on a site visit and tried to explain the issues. My department always

responds to complaints.

The best answer to your questions is the same answer I gave you on site, that your roads are

private roads – not county roads. I have no jurisdiction over them. Your home owners group has

hired a lawyer to handle this matter with your current developer, as far I know, only they can

tell you the status of the roadways, curbing and poor drainage. I came out to review your issues

because you are a County resident but once you and your home owners group hire lawyers we

try to stay out of your way.

We received notice on March 23, 2017, from an on-call person at Louisville MSD to investigate a

report of a concrete truck using a sewer manhole for washout purposes. You reported this to

MSD and they contacted me. I then sent an inspector out who issued a stop work order and we

reported the illegal discharge to the Kentucky Division of Water as our MS4 permit requires.

They sent an inspector out who closed the case and we did a re-inspection and closed it also. As

you requested, please find attached copies of those 2 documents.

I hope this information helps you and your attempt to resolve some issues you and your

neighborhood are having.

sh

Scott Harris, PE, CQA Oldham County Engineer 100 West Jefferson Street, Suite 3 La Grange, KY 40031 (502) 222-1476 sharris@oldhamcountyky.gov

Four emails were sent – 3/22/17, 3/28/17, 4/19/17 and the one responded to 4/20/17. He was asked several times… is your office responsible for ensuring that the “approved” plans signed off by Planning and Development are adhered to… HE NEVER ANSWERED THE QUESTION. FYI …. HE NEVER TALKED TO ME ON SITE and the Blueprints approved by Planning and Development require curbing and curb drains, PRIVATE PROPERTY OR NOT is to be enforced by the Oldham County Engineers Office according to Judge Voegele. The Oldham County Inspector told one of our residents that he was not to discuss these issues with us.

April 28th, 2017 – email from Scott Harris Mr. Minter,

When you ask about “development blueprints” and who is responsible for ensuring they are

adhered to, you are asking several questions and there is not one answer like I believe is being

implied. ‘Development’ refers to everything being built or improved. An example of this is each

utility, depending on where you are in the County, can be served by several different agencies. I

can tell you that your sanitary sewer is served by Louisville Metro Sewer District (MSD) so they

were responsible for ensuring it was built to their standards and maintaining it – they own it. I

do not know who serves your water, phone or cable, not part of my job. As for your roads, they

are private. That means that your developer built them and will maintain them until some

version of a HOA is put together at which point the HOA becomes the owner and maintainer and

responsible party for ensuring they are functioning as designed. This include the stormwater

they drain. If the HOA did not want this responsibility anymore, they could petition the City of

Crestwood to take over that responsibility (and they can say no) – but not Oldham County. Your

roads cannot ever become County Roads since you are in the City of Crestwood.

As for overall stormwater – the County is currently charged with ensuring that runoff is not

increased from the original rate to the point of harming anyone downstream after the land is

developed. I say currently because this has not always been the case. Your development is older

than this and, as I understand it, the roads were not built by BAS but the company they bought

the development from. This throws several wrinkles into your situation, I assume that is why

everyone there has a lawyer. This is way before my time, I started here on January 3, 2017 and I

am not getting any more involved than that. The County Engineer’s Office issues sediment and

erosion control permits and encroachment permits for driveways. Anything else being built is

probably Planning and Development.

If you really wanted to solve the issues you believe you have, you would invite the original

developer, the current developer and all the residents of the community to an on-site visit, not

two people that had nothing to do with this.

Regards,

sh

Scott Harris, PE, CQA Oldham County Engineer 100 West Jefferson Street, Suite 3 La Grange, KY 40031 (502) 222-1476 sharris@oldhamcountyky.gov Again, not taking the responsibility of ensuring that the “approved” plans are adhered to regarding curbs and curb drainage (storm water). It appears that he wants us to take on the financial responsibility of the engineers’ office mistakes.

May 1st, 2017 – Jim Urban (Oldham County Planning and Development director) Phone message left regarding approved blue print issues – curbing/curb drains NO RESPONSE May 2nd, 2017 – email from Rep Jason Nemes

Terry,

The constituent services unit with the General Assembly is working on it with the county folks. I

will check in with them, but I fear that they are getting the same answer that you have been

given. Unfortunately, it may be time for you to hire an attorney. But let me check on it.

May 3rd, 2017 Follow up email sent to Jim Urban NO RESPONSE May 4th, 2017 – Michael Logsdon (District 8 magistrate) email

I am so sorry you are having this issue with the officials. Frank and mayor Deibel have discussed

this issue. The mayor is very versed on this issue. I will forward this email to the county judge.

My suggestion is to have a subdivision meeting. I do not know if you know all the issues. I can

tell you this problem is being worked on.

Michael Logsdon

502-417-7985

With Mr. Logsdon nudging Judge Voegele we get a response from the Judge executive office. May 5th, 2017 – Response from Judge Voegele Mr. Minter,

I saw an email this morning from you stating that you have contacted various county offices, including mine – according to your email, and have not been able to get any help in resolving development issues at Claymont Springs. I have no record of you contacting me previously, but will be happy to meet with you and try to help resolve whatever issues at the development the county is able to address.

Please contact my office at your convenience for an appointment.

David Voegele Judge-Executive Oldham County Fiscal Court 100 W Jefferson St, Ste 4 LaGrange, KY 40031 502-222-9357

May 10th, 2017

Onsite meeting with Judge Voegele - at the meeting Betty Minter, Ann Bowlds and myself. Judge Voegele agreed we do have a problem. He was directly asked “who is responsible to make sure that the approved development blueprints submitted are adhered to regarding storm water drainage”? he response, The county engineers’ office. This is the first Oldham County Government admitted they are responsible for enforcing the blueprints.

May 12th, 2017 - Email from Rep Jason Nemes

Terry,

Constituent Services has informed me that this issue should be resolved at the county level

because it is not a state issue. Unfortunately, I think you guys are going to have to hire an

attorney and resolve the issue with the developer that way. But, just to be sure, I have a call in

to the Oldham County Planning and Development Commission to try to get them to do

something. Judging from your email traffic with Scott Harris, though, it does not appear that

they believe they have the ability to do anything to the developer.

This is not the information that I wanted to convey to you. I’ll get back with you after I talk with

the folks at the Planning Commission.

May 24th, 2017 - Email from Rep Jason Nemes

Terry,

Please send me your phone number again. I talked with Judge Voegele last week and I thought

things were looking better for you guys. I know he was sympathetic and wanted to help. I guess

something changed.

Jason

May 31st, 2017 – email from Judge Voegele

Terry and neighbors,

After meeting with you a couple of weeks ago, I returned to the office and began attempting to

learn more about the project from the county perspective. Apparently, no one here can locate a

copy of the originally approved plan. As you may know, the plan for the development was issued

quite a while ago, while other individuals were in charge of the county’s engineering and

planning departments and far prior to my becoming county judge. I would appreciate being able

to copy the stamped plan you have.

You may be “disgusted beyond belief with the lack of assistance from the county” but, but as I

mentioned during our meeting, simply because the county approves any plan does not mean

the county indemnify’ s the plan. Frankly, some of the language used in the last two emails I

have received after offering to try and help have left me disappointed. The problems in your

subdivision were created over an extended period and cannot be solved by my simply snapping

my fingers, even if I had the authority to do so, which I do not.

You bought into a development on private property. When the county “approves” a set of

plans, what is being said is that the features in the plan as presented meets the minimum

standard required by current codes and regulations. Nowhere in the approval of the plans does

it say the county mandates that a development be built exactly according to the plan. We watch

the building of the roads and the infrastructure that are planned to be dedicated because they

must be up to the county standard. And, certain aspects of a development - things that may

impact safety such as electrical wiring and plumbing, use must be ‘up to code’ for the protection

of the users/renters. In addition, plan changes that impact infrastructure that affects storm

water leaving the property must still receive a final approval. Private infrastructure that is not

life threating and never intended to be part of the County is not inspected as it is built because it

is never intended to be under County maintenance.

Summarizing the steps taken of late by our staff….……

March of 2016 – for quite some time, Oldham County has been engaged in communication with

the original land owner/developer Clayton Stoess. He assured the County Engineer’s office that

he would work directly with BAS properties (the current developer) and that he would

“approach them about ways to correct” the concerns in The Gardens and that he would also

help with “coordination with other parts of the development”.

November 15, 2016 – Mayor Deibel sent the county an email regarding the potential of paving

without curbs. At the time, the previous county engineer was out on medical leave and our

Planning Director, Jim Urban, was asked to participate and help resolve the situation.

January 6, 2017 – Having spoken with Mayor Deibel, Greg Spink from BAS, Vic Peak and Clayton

Stoess, Urban organized a meeting on the property. His recollection is those present were

Mayor Deibel; Crestwood City Engineer/consultant William Marshall; Crestwood City Attorney

Jim Williamson; County Construction Site Inspector Vic Peak; BAS representative Greg Spink;

BAS attorney Berry Baxter and at least 4 representatives of the home owners. All issues

regarding the development were discussed and as a result a hold was placed on all new building

permits. Mayor Deibel concurred with this action.

Since this meeting, Jim Urban has spent over 20 hours conferring with BAS attorney Baxter; BAS

consulting engineers at Mindel Scott & Associates, Mayor Deibel, County Engineer Scott Harris;

and Vic Peak.

May 26, 2017 - Attorney Baxter confirmed that BAS had requested their engineers to perform a

review of the existing conditions, deficiencies and remedies but the work had not yet been

completed. This report would provide a basis for understanding what the best solutions were to

issues and allow BAS to understand costs while also informing the home owners what actions

would be taken.

At the present time, the county engineer is waiting for an engineering firm to present a drainage

solution. I do not have the authority to force the engineers to produce it any sooner than they

will, but I am under the impression that it will be forthcoming soon. In the meantime, I have

directed Planning and Development not to issue any more building permits until some progress

is made. Bond money is available that may be used to address drainage issues, although the

bond was issued for the entire subdivision, not simply the condominium section.

I understand and am sympathetic with the frustration you feel, and am still going to help in any

way I am able. However, the problems with the development are the responsibility of the

developers and/or subsequent owners. As I recommended. you need an attorney to advise you.

David Voegele

Judge-Executive

Oldham County Fiscal Court

100 W Jefferson St, Ste 4

LaGrange, KY 40031

502-222-9357

June 6th, 2017 - Email from Rep Jason Nemes

Terry,

Any update on this? I have talked with the County Judge and he told me that he is trying to get

something done on this.

Jason

June 9th,2017 - Email from Rep Jason Nemes

Terry,

They forwarded me to the county judge's office because I'm a state representative and they

must have a policy about that. If you want me to, I can link you up to a development attorney or

two. It seems absurd to me that there is no responsibility of the government to ensure the

developer actually built the property in compliance with the plans that were approved. If it

doesn't have that responsibility, what is to keep the developer from submitting plans just to get

approved and then essentially disregard them?

Jason

June 9th, 2017 – Email from Judge Voegele

Thank you, Terry…..

Our staff has located the original copy of the approved plan, issued in January 2004. It was

submitted by engineer James Harned. The county engineer at that time was Orville Threlkeld,

whom I believe is now deceased. I am told Harned is out of business and our staff has not been

able to locate him. We are still waiting for a revised plan from Mindell Scott engineers.

I will be discussing this again next week with Scott Harris.

David Voegele Judge-Executive Oldham County Fiscal Court 100 W Jefferson St, Ste 4 LaGrange, KY 40031 502-222-9357

June 20th, 2017 – Email from Rep Jason Nemes

I don't have any update. Unfortunately, this is a county issue and I have to rely on the county

judge's comments. Let me know if you want me to recommend a couple planning and

development attorneys.

Jason

June 28th, 2017 – Email from Rep Jason Nemes

Terry,

I'm out of state this week and will return Monday. I'll send you contact information for a few

planning attorneys you may contact. There really is no state agency to contact because,

unfortunately, this is a local issue. I really hate that you guys are in this position and, while it will

likely not help you guys, I'm looking into whether legislation needs to be passed to ensure this

doesn't happen again to others.

Jason

July 17th, 2017 – Email from Judge Voegele

…some forward movement, but nothing definite.

There has been some back and forth between the county engineer and Mindell Scott Architects

regarding the drainage problem. Mindell Scott submitted a plan, but it was returned for

clarification of some points. An attorney representing the developer has also contacted us

asking that building permits be issued again, but that has not happened.

July 20th, 2017 – Email from Rep Jason Nemes

Terry,

Call (502) 583-1801, chichis the Lawyer Referral Service that covers Oldham County. None of the

lawyers that I contacted do that work in Oldham County. But the referral service should lead you

in the right direction. If not, get back in touch with me and we’ll try something else.

Jason

July 24th, 2017 Letter from BAS Properties

June 20,2017

Letter to Gardens at Claymont Springs Residents

At this time, it is the intention of BAS Properties, LlC to complete the remaining two buildings that are under construction. Oldham County is denying any additional building permits required to complete the remaining three buildings. Their denial is based upon conditions created by the original developer, South Oldham Development. None of these conditions are the result of anything done by BAS Properties, lLC. The original infrastructure, which has existed for over 12 years, is the same as when BAS Properties, lLC acquired the remaining land to be developed in November of 2013.

BAS Properties intended to put a final coat of asphalt on the roads, but until the complaints

about the original design are resolved we cannot proceed with finishing the roads. The

complaints were generated by some of the residents of GCS and have been voiced in only the

past several months.

The roadways are private roads, they are not county roads. Oldham County is reacting to the

complaints of a few residents.

Until this situation is resolved, the roads will remain in their current condition and the

remaining three buildings cannot be completed. Unfortunately, there seems to be no end in

sight.

BAS Properties, llC

9707 Shelbyville Road

Louisville, KY 40223

Again, they ignore the fact that we are not talking about the roads…. ITS STORM WATER DRAINAGE, CURBING AND CURB DRAINS. Planning and Development approved the plans that required curbing and curb drains along all roadways. It’s not us creating the inability to obtain permits to build, it’s the developers obligation to ensure that the “approved” plans are followed and County governments decision not to issue any permits if the plans are not adhered to… We’re just looking out for our interest and pointed out the obvious violations that’s effecting our quality of life.

As our 33rd District State Representative Jason Nemes said: “It seems absurd to me that there is no responsibility of the government to ensure the developer actually built the property in compliance with the plans that were approved. If it doesn't have that responsibility, what is to keep the developer from submitting plans just to get approved and then essentially disregard them?”

July 31st, 2017 - Update Email from Judge Voegele

I have received a petition signed by 26 residents asking that the stop work order be lifted. Unless someone comes to address the court during the Open Comment section or a magistrate brings it up, there will be no public discussion of the situation.

The original project design is still being referred to by BAS engineers, even though there have been multiple non-approved changes in the design of the project. Drainage for the project was not built as originally submitted and no one ever came back with a revised plan for approval.

As you know, in many situations county government is primarily complaint driven. We do not have enough staff to make sure everyone is exactly doing what they said they would. Many problems come to our attention when complaints are received. We understand that circumstances arise that cause a plan to need revision. When these situations occur, developers come back in with plan revisions to be approved. I am under the impression this never happened with Claymont Springs.

A current 'as built' plan, specifying how the drainage will work (supported by proper mathematical calculations) is needed to move forward. I am under the impression that our engineer has communicated this as clearly as he knows how to the developer's team, but still has not been able to get what has been asked for.

I would like this problem resolved and am willing to have a meeting at any time with the developer, his engineers, our engineer and whoever else is needed to get the project re-started, with the complete and proper submissions approved.

Judge Voegele has been made aware to the “fictitious Petition”

First, I have resided here since Oct. 2015 and every meeting we have had, the construction entrance has been promised. to date, it has never appeared. Second, not one member of our HOA Board-elect or myself has pushed for a stop work order. It's our belief that the stop work order was issued due to the facts delivered to Oldham County Government, and the developer ignoring the approved plans regarding drainage that created their own issues. Third, there is not one resident we know of that wants BAS to give up and not finish the roads and the remaining 3 buildings as suggested in the petition. We just want it done as approved in the beginning or corrected and not promote further storm water issues/damage to us. We don’t want an assessment down the road that we are forced to pay to correct the developers errors. SUGGESTIONS TO BAS PROPERTIES: Simple FACTS… produce the results of the engineer’s study to Oldham County Engineers office as they requested. COMMUNICATE with the engineer’s office to correct the issues. But, again we’ve tried for some time to communicate and correct some issues and get the same response….SILENCE… Why should they change now?

August 9th, 2017 – Email sent to judge Voegele for storm water drainage updates – before the August 14th meeting

Terry,

Mindel Scott has submitted another plan with drainage calculations. A determination about it has been delayed because Scott Harris has been out because his wife is been in the hospital and had a couple of surgeries. He is back today. The plan has been reviewed by Crestwood City engineer, William Marshall, who believes it is solid.

Your section of Claymont Springs is entirely on private property. Mayor Diebel also wants the development to go forward, as do 26 residents, as evidenced by a signed petition submitted to fiscal court. If the latest calculations include an engineer’s official stamp, it is likely the stop work orders will be released and the developer will be able to proceed. The county’s concern is drainage sufficiency. Other aspects of the plan not built according to the original plan are an issue between the residents and developer.

David Voegele Judge-Executive Oldham County Fiscal Court 100 W Jefferson St, Ste 4 LaGrange, KY 40031 502-222-9357

August 27th, 2017 – Email from Representative Jason Nemes

Terry,

I was thinking about you guys recently and wanted to check in. I really wish I could have helped

more. This will not help your situation, but I am working on making local governments follow-up

to ensure plans were followed in the development stage. If not, there should be consequences.

I hope all is well.

Jason

________

Rep. Jason M. Nemes

33rd District

jason.nemes@lrc.ky.gov

(502) 564-8100

September 13th, 2017 – Update from Judge Voegele

The latest plan from Mindall Scott for fixing the problems at Claymont Springs has been

approved. The plan does not include everything you may personally want, but has an approved

drainage plan. Jim Urban is working with Barry Baxter, attorney, to coordinate with Mike Shutte

regarding resumption of building on the remaining lots. A short-cut entrance off the cul de sac is

to be closed.

David Voegele

I ask for the “latest plan” so it can be attached with the original blueprints for our future

reference

September 18th, 2017 – Judge Voegele response after asking for the “latest Plans”

I will try to get something for you…….

September 18th. 2017 – email from Judge Voegele

Terry,

Mindell Scott has provided the county with a certified plan that the drainage at the subdivision

will work. The engineering department has ‘accepted’ the plan. Since this is a private

development, the most appropriate place to get a copy of the updated plan from is from either

the developer or Mindell Scott, the architect.

My understanding is that paving is to resume except on Williamsburg Court, which will be

finished after construction ends. Three building permits will be issued for the work on

Williamsburg Court. The developer has an estimate from Riverside Paving to do all the needed

paving, including the area around the three building left to be built. The total estimate is

$25,594.00. I believe the paving will be done in phases. Some money will be left in escrow to

pay for the final phase around Williamsburg Court, opening the construction entrance and

having Riverside complete the other work.

The developer will address the gravel access to the commercial portion of Claymont. Mike

hopes to work with Clayton Stoess to cause this to be removed in its entirety however, the

developer will at a minimum cause the portion located on the Gardens property to be removed,

seeded and strawed.

Finally, I understand the HOA will be fully operational soon. I know this has been a very long and

frustrating process, but there may be light at the end of the tunnel, I hope so. Best wishes to

all….

David Voegele

Judge-Executive

Oldham County Fiscal Court

100 W Jefferson St, Ste 4

LaGrange, KY 40031

502-222-9357

September 19, 2017 - Judge Voegele additional response after asking for the “latest Plans”

Terry,

Yes, you can have a copy of either the sheets or a disc with the plans on it. The sheets could get

costly. Each page is $7 and there are likely 10 to 20 pages. The disc is $5.

Once again, I want to clarify what I sense is an erroneous thought. Anyone cannot do simply

anything they choose without some oversight for the protection of the overall public interest in

safe and orderly development, rather than the future interest of each individual purchaser of

property. Never-the-less, while county government ‘approves’ or ‘rejects’ plans as submitted, or

requires one or more changes to the original submission, the county is not responsible for

making sure the development is built as submitted, nor is the county responsible for correcting

developer mistakes.

If a developer wants to change a plan after approval, the developer is responsible for submitting

another plan to be approved. This did not happen in the case of Claymont Springs. The county

did not have the personnel in 2004, nor does it now, to go around and monitor every

development to make sure developers are doing everything they presented for approval. This is

particularly true in situations where because of market, ownership or other issues development

periods extend far beyond original expectations. A potential buyer purchases property based on

a future promise which did not occur, the buyer has to look to the seller for relief, not the

county.

The current submission from the developer, prepared by Mindell Scott Architects, says the

drainage system does what it is supposed to do. The county has ‘accepted’ the plan stamped by

professional architects, as presented. The county is not ensuring that it works, nor is the county

responsible if it does not. If the plan does not function properly the future, the HOA will have to

look to the developer and architects for relief.

I hope this explanation clears up any misconceptions. Please let me know if you would like to

pick up a printed version of the plan, or the disc.

David Voegele

Judge-Executive

Oldham County Fiscal Court

100 W Jefferson St, Ste 4

LaGrange, KY 40031

502-222-9357