terry casey in the united states ... - moritz college of...
TRANSCRIPT
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF OHIO
EASTERN DIVISION
- - -
Libertarian Party of Ohio, :
et al., :
:
Plaintiffs, : Case No. 2:13-CV-00953
: Judge Watson
: Magistrate Judge Kemp
Robert Hart, et al., :
:
Intervenor-Plaintiffs. :
:
vs. :
:
Jon Husted, in his Official :
Capacity as Secretary of :
State, :
:
Defendant, :
:
The State of Ohio, :
:
Intervenor-Defendant. :
:
and :
:
Gregory A. Felsoci, :
:
Intervenor-Defendant. :
- - -
DEPOSITION
of Terry Casey, taken before me, Carolyn M. Burke, a
Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in
and for the State of Ohio, at Zeiger Tigges & Little,
LLP, 3500 Huntington Center, 41 South High Street,
Columbus, Ohio, on Thursday, August 28, 2014, at
2:03 p.m.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 1 of 229 PAGEID #: 6208
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
2
1 APPEARANCES:
2 Mr. Mark R. Brown, Esq. Capital University Law School
3 303 East Broad Street Columbus, Ohio 43215
4 And
5 Kafantaris Law Offices
6 By Mr. Mark G. Kafantaris, Esq. 625 City Park Avenue
7 Columbus, Ohio 43206
8 On behalf of the Plaintiffs.
9 Mike DeWine, Ohio Attorney General By Ms. Bridget C. Coontz, Esq.
10 Assistant Section Chief Ms. Halli Watson, Esq.
11 Assistant Attorney General Constitutional Offices Section
12 30 East Broad Street, 16th Floor Columbus, Ohio 43215
13 On behalf of Secretary of State Jon
14 Husted.
15 Zeiger Tigges & Little, LLP By Mr. John W. Zeiger, Esq.
16 Mr. Steven W. Tigges, Esq. 3500 Huntington Center
17 41 South High Street Columbus, Ohio 43215
18 On behalf of Gregory A. Felsoci and Terry
19 Casey.
20 ALSO PRESENT:
21 Mr. Brian Finch.
22 - - -
23
24
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 2 of 229 PAGEID #: 6209
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
3
1 Thursday Afternoon Session,
2 August 28, 2014.
3 - - -
4 STIPULATIONS
5 It is stipulated by and among counsel for the
6 respective parties that the deposition of Terry
7 Casey, a witness called by the Plaintiffs under the
8 applicable Rules of Civil Procedure, may be reduced
9 to writing in stenotypy by the Notary, whose notes
10 thereafter may be transcribed out of the presence of
11 the witness; and that proof of the official character
12 and qualification of the Notary is waived.
13 - - -
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 3 of 229 PAGEID #: 6210
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
4
1 INDEX
2 - - -
3 WITNESS PAGE
4 Terry Casey
Cross-Examination by Mr. Brown 6
5 - - -
6 CASEY DEPOSITION EXHIBITS IDENTIFIED
7 1 - E-mail from J. Zeiger; May 16, 2014; 26
8 Subject: Confidential
9 2 - Protest Challenging the 41
Certification of, and the
10 Declarations of Candidacy and
Petitions filed on Behalf of Joint
11 Candidates Charles R. Earl and
Sherry L. Clark, dated February 21,
12 2014
13 3 - Protest Challenging the 42
Certification of, and the
14 Declaration of Candidacy and
Petitions Filed on Behalf of
15 Candidate Steven R. Linnabary,
dated February 21, 2014
16 4 - E-mail from [email protected]; 55
17 February 18, 2014;
Subject: Re: Protest
18 5 - Text messages 56
19 6 - E-mail from M. Damschroder; 62
20 February 27, 2014; no subject
21 7 - E-mail from M. Damschroder; 65
February 28, 2014; no subject
22 8 - E-mail from M. Damschroder; 68
23 March 3, 2014; no subject
24
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 4 of 229 PAGEID #: 6211
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
5
1 INDEX (Continued)
2 - - -
3 CASEY DEPOSITION EXHIBITS IDENTIFIED
4 9 - E-mail from J. Husted; April 23, 93
2014; Subject: Re: Sixth Circuit,
5 Libertarian Court Hearing Late
Tuesday
6 10 - E-mail from T. Casey; May 1, 2014; 98
7 Subject: Dispatch: Libertarians
Remain off Oh. Ballot
8 11 - E-mail from B. Smith; March 6, 2014; 102
9 Subject: Re: March 4, 2014 Final
Transcript
10 12 - E-mail from B. Smith; March 7, 2014; 106
11 Subject: Re: my Evans thoughts
12 - - -
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 5 of 229 PAGEID #: 6212
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
6
1 TERRY CASEY
2 being by me first duly sworn, as hereinafter
3 certified, deposes and says as follows:
4 CROSS-EXAMINATION
5 By Mr. Brown:
6 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Casey. My name is
7 Mark Brown. I'm the lawyer for the Libertarian Party
8 of Ohio and also Kevin Knedler, Aaron Harris, and
9 Charlie Earl in a case, a federal case, the
10 Libertarian Party of Ohio against Husted, No. 13-953
11 in federal court. Are you familiar with that case,
12 by chance, Mr. Casey?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. I also represented Charlie Earl and his
15 running mate, Sherry Clark, in an administrative
16 protest in front of the Secretary of State which was
17 filed on February 21st, 2014, with the decision
18 handed down on March 7th, 2014. Are you familiar
19 with that protest action?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. I think I may have seen you at the
22 hearing, you may have seen me, so that may be how we
23 kind of inadvertently met at some point.
24 Could you state your full name for the
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 6 of 229 PAGEID #: 6213
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
7
1 record, Mr. Casey, and I know it's fairly easy to
2 spell, but you may just want to go ahead and spell
3 it, too, just for the reporter.
4 A. My name is Terry L. Casey. First name
5 T-e-r-r-y. Last name C-a-s-e-y.
6 Q. Have you ever been deposed before,
7 Mr. Casey?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. How many times?
10 A. At least once, maybe two or three other
11 times.
12 Q. Do you happen to remember when?
13 A. Not exactly.
14 Q. And the reason I ask is just because if
15 you've been deposed, you're familiar with the rules,
16 but maybe I should refresh you quickly about the
17 rules of a deposition just to make sure that we
18 understand each other.
19 You do understand that when you respond,
20 you need to respond orally with a "yes" or a "no" or
21 some oral explanation. Nods and shakes won't do it
22 because the reporter can't get that down. Do you
23 understand that?
24 A. Yes.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 7 of 229 PAGEID #: 6214
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
8
1 Q. Do you also understand that you are to
2 answer my questions to the best of your ability, even
3 if your attorney objects. Unless your attorney
4 instructs you not to answer, you still need to go
5 ahead and answer the question. Do you understand
6 that?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Of course, you understand that you're
9 under oath and subject to the penalties of
10 perjury; is that correct?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. I'm not sure how long this is going to
13 last, so if you need a break or anything during the
14 deposition, please let me know, we'll take a break.
15 If I have asked you a question, however, if you can
16 answer the question before we take that break. Do
17 you understand that?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What is your occupation, Mr. Casey?
20 A. Self-employed.
21 Q. What is it you do?
22 A. Political consulting and research.
23 Q. So do you have clients?
24 A. Yes.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 8 of 229 PAGEID #: 6215
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
9
1 Q. Who are your clients?
2 A. You mean right now?
3 Q. Yes, right now. Then we'll talk about
4 the past here in a minute.
5 A. There's a county commissioner in
6 Tuscarawas County, there's a county commissioner in
7 Lawrence County, done some things with Summit County
8 Republican Party I'm working on right now.
9 Q. Is the Ohio Republican Party, by chance,
10 one of your clients?
11 A. Not now.
12 Q. Has it been in the past?
13 A. In the past, some distance, but not
14 currently.
15 Q. You don't know how long ago that was; do
16 you remember by chance?
17 A. Maybe a year and a half ago, two years
18 ago.
19 Q. How about the Franklin County Republican
20 Party, is that one of your clients?
21 A. Not in the recent decade or two.
22 Q. So it's been over a decade since the
23 Franklin County Republican Party was a client?
24 A. Probably.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 9 of 229 PAGEID #: 6216
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
10
1 Q. Do you have any statewide officeholders
2 as clients presently?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Have you had any statewide officeholders
5 as clients in the past?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Can you name them, please?
8 A. I did some things in 2010 for Kasich and
9 Dave Yost. Do you want farther back than that?
10 Q. No. That's fine. Are those the only two
11 statewide officeholders?
12 A. In recent time.
13 Q. Is it correct that you're no longer
14 working with Kasich -- is it Kasich or Kasich? I'm
15 sorry.
16 A. I'm sorry. What was the question again?
17 Q. You're no longer with Kasich; is that
18 correct?
19 A. Not right now, no.
20 Q. When did you stop working with Kasich?
21 A. It was back in October of 2010.
22 Q. And Yost, was it about the same time that
23 you stopped working with Yost?
24 A. Yes.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 10 of 229 PAGEID #: 6217
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
11
1 Q. Before you became self-employed, what did
2 you do?
3 A. I was Executive Director of the Franklin
4 County Republican Party.
5 Q. And what years were you the Executive
6 Director of the Franklin County Republican Party?
7 A. 1979 to 1983 -- wait a minute -- 1993.
8 Q. Okay. Did you happen to hold another job
9 at the same time you were the Executive Director of
10 the Franklin County Republican Party?
11 A. I was on the Franklin County Board of
12 Elections.
13 Q. Do you happen to remember the years?
14 A. 1979 to 1993.
15 Q. Are you presently an officeholder in
16 Ohio?
17 A. An officeholder?
18 Q. Any public office, are you on a public
19 board of directors or --
20 A. I'm not an elected officeholder. Is that
21 the question?
22 Q. Any officeholder at all; appointed,
23 elected.
24 A. I'm on a state board, but I'm not an
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 11 of 229 PAGEID #: 6218
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
12
1 officeholder.
2 Q. What state board are you on?
3 A. State Board of Personnel Review.
4 Q. How long have you been on that board?
5 A. Since January 2011.
6 Q. How were you appointed to the board?
7 A. Per statute, was appointed by the
8 Governor, approved by the State Senate.
9 Q. And the Governor was Kasich; is that
10 correct?
11 A. Correct.
12 Q. Are you affiliated with any party in
13 Ohio?
14 A. I'm a Republican.
15 Q. Do you presently hold any position in the
16 Ohio Republican Party?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Do you presently hold any position in the
19 Franklin County Republican Party?
20 A. I might have been at one time, I'm not
21 sure whether I am part of the executive committee
22 which is a two- or three-hundred person number, but I
23 don't know whether I'm still on that or not. It's
24 kind of an honorary thing.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 12 of 229 PAGEID #: 6219
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
13
1 Q. How long have you done that?
2 A. Probably since 1977.
3 Q. Are you an advisor of any sort to the
4 Kasich campaign presently?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Were you an advisor of any sort to the
7 Kasich campaign after October 2010?
8 A. Not what I would consider an advisor, no.
9 Q. Do you communicate with the Kasich
10 campaign in any way presently?
11 A. I know lots of people politically, so I
12 probably, in some way or another, see or communicate
13 with people.
14 Q. Do you communicate personally with John
15 Kasich?
16 A. Communicate with him? Nothing recently.
17 Q. Do you happen to remember when the last
18 time you did communicate with John Kasich was?
19 A. My guess is maybe a year and a half ago.
20 Q. Do you happen to remember what you talked
21 about, what you communicated about?
22 A. Just general stuff.
23 Q. Election stuff, by chance?
24 A. No, not election stuff.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 13 of 229 PAGEID #: 6220
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
14
1 Q. Have you ever communicated with John
2 Kasich about the Ohio Libertarian Party?
3 A. No.
4 Q. I know you said you were a political
5 consultant and had worked with Kasich before. Were
6 you an advisor to Kasich when you were also his
7 consultant?
8 A. I'm not sure I understand the question or
9 the difference.
10 Q. I'm not sure what a consultant does.
11 What does a consultant do?
12 A. Depends what's needed for the candidate.
13 Sometimes you're designing a direct mail piece;
14 sometimes you're doing a recorded phone call.
15 Q. Does a consultant also advise in any way?
16 A. Sometimes, if they ask.
17 Q. Were you paid as a consultant by Kasich?
18 A. When?
19 Q. I believe you said that it was in
20 October 2010 that you ceased being a consultant with
21 John Kasich. Were you paid while you were a
22 consultant up till October 2010?
23 A. I did a special project on debate
24 preparation in September and October of 2010.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 14 of 229 PAGEID #: 6221
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
15
1 Q. And were you paid by John Kasich's
2 campaign?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Do you remember how much you were paid?
5 A. 4,200 to 4,600. Somewhere in that range.
6 Q. How long did it take you to do that
7 project?
8 A. I was working on it in August and
9 September and October.
10 Q. So approximately three months?
11 A. Approximately.
12 Q. Do you know Mike DeWine?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. How do you know Mike DeWine?
15 A. I think I first met him in '89 when he
16 was running for Governor.
17 Q. Do you communicate with Mike DeWine
18 presently?
19 A. No.
20 Q. When was the last time you communicated
21 with Mike DeWine?
22 A. Probably sometime October of 2010.
23 Q. Do you happen to remember what you talked
24 about?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 15 of 229 PAGEID #: 6222
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
16
1 A. I was on a call with the Summit County
2 Republican Chairman and him, I think it was either
3 about commercials by the opponent or other things
4 that were happening in general, politically.
5 Q. Have you ever talked to Mike DeWine about
6 the Ohio Libertarian Party?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Have you ever consulted with Mike DeWine?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Have you recently spoken to anyone in the
11 John Kasich campaign?
12 MR. TIGGES: What do you mean by
13 "recently"? This week? This year?
14 Q. Since January 1st, 2014, have you
15 communicated with anybody in the John Kasich for
16 Governor campaign?
17 A. I've seen people around at social events,
18 I've sometimes sent out general e-mails about
19 political issues, or, in doing TV shows, might have
20 asked for background information.
21 Q. And some of those e-mails would go to
22 people in the Kasich campaign?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Is the Kasich campaign on your e-mail
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 16 of 229 PAGEID #: 6223
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
17
1 list?
2 A. I don't have an e-mail list, per se.
3 Q. When you say you send out general
4 e-mails, do you just type in the individual addresses
5 of everyone who is going to receive that e-mail?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Do you have a -- is there a faster way to
8 include names that you send your e-mails to?
9 A. If I'm going to send an e-mail to
10 somebody, I might start to type their name and then
11 it will, you know, if it's a Mike, there will be a
12 whole bunch of Mikes that come up, or Bobs, or Johns,
13 and see which ones . . .
14 Q. So you have to individually pick them
15 out; is that correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And my question is, I just want to know,
18 a lot of people have lists that they can just type in
19 the name of the list and everybody in that list will
20 go.
21 A. No. Don't have that.
22 Q. We have that at Capital. For example,
23 with faculty, I can just type in "faculty" and it
24 will go to a long list of faculty members.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 17 of 229 PAGEID #: 6224
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
18
1 A. I don't have that.
2 Q. Do you know Matt Borges?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How do you know Matt Borges?
5 A. From different campaign things over the
6 years.
7 Q. How long have you known Matt Borges?
8 A. Kind of vaguely goes back to, I forget
9 whatever year Deters was State Treasurer and was
10 going to run for AG or something. I can't remember
11 whether that's 10 years ago, 14, 16, 8.
12 Q. So it's been a number of years; is that
13 correct?
14 A. On and off, yes.
15 Q. Do you ever communicate with Matt Borges,
16 let's say since January 1st, 2014, do you communicate
17 with Matt Borges?
18 A. Sometimes I've sent him copies of
19 clippings of general political interest or things
20 either doing or getting ready to do on TV shows.
21 Q. Are all of your communications with
22 Mr. Borges by e-mail?
23 A. I probably talked to him a few times on
24 the phone. Sometimes I've seen him at social
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 18 of 229 PAGEID #: 6225
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
19
1 functions and waved or something like that.
2 Q. Approximately, do you know how many times
3 you've talked to him by phone or in person since
4 January 1st, 2014?
5 A. I don't know. I'd have to guess. I
6 don't want to guess.
7 Q. More than a hundred?
8 A. Oh, no. No.
9 Q. Less than a hundred?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Less than 50, do you think?
12 A. Probably less than 50.
13 Q. Do you happen to remember the last time
14 you spoke with Matt Borges in person or on telephone?
15 A. I think Saturday, was at a social
16 function, and saw him over at the distance and waved,
17 but didn't talk to him.
18 Q. Did you happen to come to the federal
19 court proceeding on March 17th, 2014, when Mr. Borges
20 testified?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Mr. Casey, is your lawyer here with you
23 today?
24 A. Yes.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 19 of 229 PAGEID #: 6226
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
20
1 Q. And who is that?
2 A. Mr. Tigges and Mr. Zeiger.
3 Q. Did you happen to discuss with them your
4 deposition before you came in today?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did you discuss with anyone your
7 deposition before coming in today?
8 A. Not in any detail, no.
9 Q. Just in passing?
10 A. Yeah, just, like, to my wife; do a
11 deposition.
12 Q. Is there anyone else besides your wife?
13 Do you remember?
14 A. I mean, just some social friends, that
15 kind of thing, but nothing of substance.
16 Q. When did you hire Mr. Tigges and
17 Mr. Zeiger?
18 A. I first called them sometime in February
19 of this year.
20 Q. Have you, in the past, retained
21 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?
22 A. I've worked with them, yes.
23 Q. So they've been your lawyers in different
24 matters in the past?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 20 of 229 PAGEID #: 6227
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
21
1 A. Either my lawyer or people I was working
2 with.
3 Q. Do you happen to remember the last time,
4 before you hired them in February, the last time you
5 retained Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?
6 A. I know I was involved in an Etna Township
7 thing this spring that Mr. Zeiger was involved in and
8 I was involved in.
9 There was, I'm trying to think, probably
10 was 2008, as I roughly recall, there was a thing for
11 Steve Stivers on a post-election potential recount
12 issue that I was involved in with Mr. Zeiger and
13 other attorneys in his firm.
14 Q. Did you pay them to represent you in that
15 case?
16 A. Did I? No.
17 Q. Do you know who did?
18 A. Which one?
19 Q. The previous case you just described
20 involving Mr. Stivers; Steve Stivers.
21 A. I don't remember offhand the exact
22 entity, but I think it was -- I mean, it wasn't me
23 personally, but I don't know whether it was Stivers'
24 Committee or some other committee, I don't remember
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 21 of 229 PAGEID #: 6228
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
22
1 the exact details.
2 Q. So it might have been the Stivers
3 campaign committee or something like that?
4 A. That's possible.
5 Q. Would it have been the Ohio Republican
6 Party?
7 A. I'm not totally sure. I don't remember.
8 Q. Could it have been the Franklin County
9 Republican Party?
10 A. I don't think so.
11 Q. Are there any other instances where you
12 would work with Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges before the
13 Stivers campaign?
14 A. There were some things, but I don't
15 remember exactly or whether they were that official
16 or as detailed as this or that.
17 Q. How long does your relationship with
18 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges stretch into the past?
19 A. Mr. Tigges, relatively recently.
20 Mr. Zeiger, I think I knew way back in
21 the days when I was a student at Ohio State and he
22 was a student at Ohio State.
23 MR. TIGGES: Dark ages.
24 Q. And would you say that Mr. Zeiger has
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 22 of 229 PAGEID #: 6229
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
23
1 represented you on numerous occasions?
2 A. I wouldn't use the word "numerous."
3 Depends what you mean by "numerous."
4 Q. More than 10?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Less than 10?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Over the course of the years?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Why did you select Mr. Zeiger and
11 Mr. Tigges to represent you in this present case?
12 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
13 A. They're both very good attorneys.
14 Q. Were they recommended to you?
15 A. No.
16 Q. I believe you testified that it was
17 February this year that you retained Mr. Zeiger and
18 Mr. Tigges; is that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Do you happen to remember the day?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Would it have been early February?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Middle February?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 23 of 229 PAGEID #: 6230
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
24
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. So approximately given that February is
3 usually 28 days, February 14?
4 A. Somewhere thereabouts. I was out of the
5 country until midday on February 10th, so it would
6 have been sometime after that.
7 Q. And for what purpose did you retain
8 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?
9 A. To look at legal questions on the filings
10 and other ancillary things related to petitions and
11 signatures.
12 Q. Did you retain Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges
13 to handle the protest against Charlie Earl?
14 A. I initially didn't know whether there was
15 legal grounds for a protest.
16 Q. But eventually, of course, there was a
17 protest filed; is that correct?
18 A. That's my understanding.
19 Q. To your knowledge.
20 And once the protest was filed, did you
21 retain Mr. Tigges and Mr. Zeiger to handle that
22 protest?
23 A. Could you restate that? I'm sorry.
24 Q. Once the protest was filed, was it your
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 24 of 229 PAGEID #: 6231
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
25
1 understanding that Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges, your
2 attorneys, were going to handle that protest as
3 lawyers?
4 A. That was the assumption. If you file
5 something, normally you follow through on it.
6 Q. Were you the named protestor in that
7 matter?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Do you know who was?
10 A. Some gentleman, Felsoci, I think is the
11 name.
12 Q. Why was Mr. Felsoci named as a protestor
13 and not you?
14 A. Because legally, under Ohio law, somebody
15 who is a member of the Libertarian Party needed to be
16 the filing individual.
17 Q. Was Mr. Felsoci paying Mr. Zeiger and
18 Mr. Tigges?
19 A. Not to my knowledge.
20 Q. Were Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges, to your
21 knowledge, being paid?
22 A. You say on what part of -- could you
23 restate the question? I'm sorry.
24 Q. To your knowledge were Mr. Zeiger and
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 25 of 229 PAGEID #: 6232
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
26
1 Mr. Tigges being paid to handle the protest?
2 A. I assume they will be paid, yes.
3 Q. You say "will be paid."
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. That means they have not been paid
6 anything yet.
7 A. Not to my knowledge.
8 Q. Is it your testimony that you have not
9 paid Mr. Tigges and Mr. Zeiger anything?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. Have you agreed to pay Mr. Zeiger and
12 Mr. Tigges anything?
13 A. I've said I would work on trying to raise
14 some money, but haven't paid them anything.
15 Q. Who are you going to raise the money
16 from?
17 A. Interested parties that are supportive.
18 Q. Have you received any invoices or bills
19 from Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?
20 A. I've seen, I think, a couple invoices.
21 Q. And what did you do with those invoices?
22 A. Put them in my file.
23 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
24 Q. Mr. Casey, I've placed before you
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 26 of 229 PAGEID #: 6233
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
27
1 Exhibit 1, and I believe it's an e-mail from John
2 Zeiger to you, dated March 16th, 2014, at
3 5:17 p.m.; is that correct?
4 A. That's what it says. You say 5:16 or 17?
5 Q. I said 5:17. May 16, 5:17 p.m. Do you
6 recognize that e-mail?
7 A. Not in this exact format because when it
8 comes on my computer it looks different than this.
9 Q. But did you receive an e-mail with that
10 same text from Mr. Zeiger?
11 A. It's very possible. I don't remember
12 every e-mail that I get because I get lots of them.
13 Q. Do you usually pay your bills on time?
14 A. I don't remember that the bill said it
15 was immediate and due.
16 Q. So this e-mail says to you: "Terry,
17 enclosed is our statement for services relating to
18 the Sixth Circuit appeal. The invoice also outlines
19 the balance due on our earlier statement dated
20 April 3." So does that mean you've received now at
21 least two statements, one April 3rd, and one May
22 16th --
23 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
24 Q. -- 2014?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 27 of 229 PAGEID #: 6234
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
28
1 A. What are we talking about? This is
2 May 16th.
3 Q. This e-mail is dated May 16th, but it
4 also says "Enclosed is our statement for services
5 relating to the Sixth Circuit appeal. The invoice
6 also outlines the balance due on our earlier
7 statement dated April 3." So you received an earlier
8 statement on April 3rd from Mr. Zeiger; is that
9 correct?
10 A. That's probable. I don't remember exact
11 details.
12 Q. And then you received the second invoice
13 on May 16th; is that correct?
14 A. I assume so, yes.
15 Q. And Mr. Zeiger says to you that he "would
16 appreciate payment at your earliest opportunity"; is
17 that correct?
18 A. That's what it says.
19 Q. Did you pay him at your earliest
20 opportunity?
21 A. Not yet.
22 Q. Did you pay him for the April 3rd invoice
23 at your earliest opportunity?
24 A. No payments were made to my knowledge.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 28 of 229 PAGEID #: 6235
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
29
1 Q. How much was the invoice for April 3rd?
2 A. I don't remember off the top of my head.
3 Q. Do you have a copy of that invoice?
4 A. I don't have it with me, no.
5 Q. Can you see that we get a copy of it?
6 MR. TIGGES: You can make a request and
7 we'll respond to it, but the response will be an
8 objection. What's your next question?
9 MR. BROWN: Steve, I'd appreciate it if
10 you wouldn't testify for your witness.
11 MR. TIGGES: I didn't testify. It's not
12 appropriate to ask him for documents. You direct the
13 request to counsel; you know that.
14 Q. Do you have a copy of the invoice for
15 May 16th, 2014?
16 A. I probably do somewhere in my files.
17 Q. You do understand that we can access
18 those documents by subpoena?
19 A. I'm not sure what you can do or not do.
20 Q. Do you know what the invoice amount was
21 for the May 16th invoice described in this e-mail?
22 A. I don't remember off the top of my head.
23 Q. So it's your testimony you don't know how
24 much you owe Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 29 of 229 PAGEID #: 6236
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
30
1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. And it's your testimony that you have
3 never paid Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges.
4 A. That is correct.
5 Q. Are you being paid by anyone to act as a
6 an agent in this protest?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Mr. Casey, I believe you said there are
9 interested persons and interested parties that you
10 will find support from for this protest; is that
11 correct?
12 A. That's my hope.
13 Q. Who are these interested persons and
14 interested parties?
15 A. I haven't started contacting anybody.
16 Q. Who are you going to contact?
17 A. Probably different people that I've known
18 over the years politically.
19 Q. Can you identify them?
20 A. I haven't sat down and figured out a
21 list.
22 Q. Obviously, you've got somebody in mind;
23 isn't that correct?
24 A. I don't know whether somebody, but I've
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 30 of 229 PAGEID #: 6237
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
31
1 been involved in politics for 45 years, and there's
2 people I've known that are interested in some of the
3 things that came out in the hearing that you were at
4 on that day at the Secretary of State's office.
5 Q. Do you have a bank account?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Do you ever write checks on that bank
8 account?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Have you written any checks on that bank
11 account to Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Have you ever delivered, to Mr. Tigges or
14 Mr. Zeiger, cash --
15 A. No.
16 Q. -- since January 1st, 2014?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Have you made any electronic transfers to
19 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges since January 1st, 2014?
20 A. No.
21 Q. You do realize that the Court ordered
22 your attorneys to disclose your identity in this
23 case; is that correct?
24 A. I'm not sure of the exact details.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 31 of 229 PAGEID #: 6238
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
32
1 Q. And your attorneys identified you as
2 their client in this case; you understand that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. How much money do you make each year,
5 Mr. Casey?
6 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Relevance.
7 Do not answer that question.
8 MR. BROWN: Are you instructing your
9 client not to answer that question?
10 MR. TIGGES: I am.
11 MR. BROWN: We can call Judge Kemp right
12 now.
13 MR. TIGGES: Call him if you want, but
14 that's private and personal, and you've got no right
15 to inquire of him that.
16 MR. BROWN: We'll stay on the record for
17 a second here, Carolyn.
18 Q. (By Mr. Brown) What is your net worth,
19 Mr. Casey?
20 MR. TIGGES: Same objection. Same
21 instruction.
22 Q. Can you afford to hire Mr. Zeiger and
23 Mr. Tigges, Mr. Casey?
24 A. Can I afford to hire them?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 32 of 229 PAGEID #: 6239
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
33
1 Q. Yes.
2 A. I'm not sure I understand your question.
3 Q. Do you have the resources to pay
4 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges for their services?
5 A. You talking personally or --
6 Q. Yes, personally.
7 A. I can hire them if I wanted to, sure.
8 Q. Have you received money from anyone to
9 assist you in paying Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Are you going to receive money from
12 anyone?
13 A. I don't know.
14 Q. Did anyone ask you to retain Mr. Zeiger
15 and Mr. Tigges?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Did you discuss the retention of
18 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges with anyone before hiring
19 them?
20 A. Tell me that question again.
21 Q. Did you discuss hiring Mr. Tigges and
22 Mr. Zeiger with anyone before retaining them?
23 A. I might have chatted with just different
24 people I know that I thought they were good attorneys
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 33 of 229 PAGEID #: 6240
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
34
1 and that there were significant questions raised, but
2 I don't remember exactly who, but I just remember
3 chatting in general that the things that came out
4 initially in this, particularly what the Democrat
5 Party was doing, I thought was rather shocking and
6 bad.
7 Q. Who were those people you discussed this
8 with?
9 A. I don't remember each name.
10 Q. Do you remember any of the names?
11 A. I'm not totally sure because I got back
12 from being out of town that week and was doing a
13 couple TV -- did three different TV shows that week,
14 and I remember catching up with a lot of people
15 politically and this is one of the kind of topics out
16 there. So I don't remember exactly with whom I
17 chatted about what.
18 Q. Was anyone you talked to affiliated with
19 the Ohio Republican Party?
20 A. "Affiliated," you mean a Republican or,
21 like, the Chairman?
22 Q. Being a Republican, yes.
23 A. There were -- I mean, a lot of people I
24 talk to are Republican, but not the Chairman of the
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 34 of 229 PAGEID #: 6241
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
35
1 Republican Party.
2 Q. Any of the individuals you discussed
3 about retaining Zeiger and Tigges, were they with the
4 Ohio Republican Party?
5 A. Again, there's the Chairman of the
6 Republican Party and I'm almost certain I didn't chat
7 with him. There's people who, and I'm not sure their
8 state of involvement with the Republican Party,
9 whether -- and I don't know whether it was that week
10 or later, like a Jo Ann Davidson, who is on the State
11 Central Committee and formerly on the Republican
12 National Committee.
13 Q. I'm sorry. What's that name again?
14 A. Jo Ann Davidson.
15 Q. How do you spell the last name?
16 D-a-v-i-d-s-o-n; is that correct?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Anyone else in addition to Ms. Davidson?
19 A. There were other folks politically, but I
20 don't remember exact conversations might have had on
21 this and other topics.
22 Q. Anyone else?
23 A. Right now that's what I remember. It was
24 a busy week coming back that week.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 35 of 229 PAGEID #: 6242
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
36
1 Q. So this would have been roughly around
2 February 14th --
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. -- 2014; is that correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And so, you just took it upon yourself to
7 hire Mr. Tigges and Mr. Zeiger; is that correct?
8 A. Well, I wanted them to evaluate some of
9 the information, whether or not there was legal
10 substance there potentially to do a protest filing.
11 Q. Do you happen to know when the protest
12 was actually filed?
13 A. I don't -- it was sometime later in
14 February, but I don't remember the exact date.
15 Q. Would February 21st sound about right to
16 you?
17 A. Yeah, about right.
18 Q. Did you, on February 17th, notify Matt
19 Damschroder that you were going to file a protest
20 against Charlie Earl?
21 A. My recollection is somewhere in that time
22 frame, I might have mentioned to -- I don't know
23 whether it was by phone or by e-mail that I mentioned
24 to Matt that there were significant questions
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 36 of 229 PAGEID #: 6243
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
37
1 regarding the filings. So I don't remember the exact
2 detail, but either by phone and/or e-mail I kind of
3 mentioned that there were questions that came up.
4 Q. Why did you mention that to Matt
5 Damschroder?
6 A. Because I've known Matt for a long time
7 and he's knowledgeable politically and, again, I was
8 probably talking to Matt that week because I was
9 catching up from being out of the country for a
10 number of weeks, and I was getting ready to do three
11 different TV shows that weekend.
12 Q. What does Matt Damschroder do? Do you
13 know?
14 A. He works for the Secretary of State, and
15 I don't know the exact title, but he's kind of the
16 operational person on election issues in the
17 Secretary of State's office.
18 Q. He's the Chief Elections Officer; is that
19 correct?
20 A. I don't know the exact title, but . . .
21 Q. Why did you communicate with Matthew
22 Damschroder?
23 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Asked and
24 answered. You just asked him that question two
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 37 of 229 PAGEID #: 6244
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
38
1 minutes ago.
2 MR. BROWN: Well, he can answer it again.
3 MR. TIGGES: Why don't you read back the
4 last answer, Carolyn, please, the question and
5 answer.
6 (Record read.)
7 Q. Why do you think Mr. Damschroder wanted
8 to hear what you were going to do? Why do you think
9 Mr. Damschroder would want to hear that you were
10 going to file a protest?
11 MR. TIGGES: Object to form. No
12 foundation.
13 Answer if you can.
14 A. Okay. Just ask me the question one more
15 time so I make sure I understand what you're -- how
16 it's different from the previous question.
17 Q. Sure. I believe you testified that you
18 told Mr. Damschroder, because you were catching up,
19 and my question is why do you think that
20 Mr. Damschroder would want to hear that you were
21 going to file a protest?
22 MR. TIGGES: Same objection.
23 A. I think probably the first thing I asked
24 about, again I was trying to catch up, I had either
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 38 of 229 PAGEID #: 6245
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
39
1 read or heard about other Libertarian candidates, I
2 think for Secretary of State, State Treasurer, State
3 Auditor that had been disqualified or were going to
4 be disqualified or were short.
5 And I remember some point in that period
6 asking him some of the mechanics, like, where were
7 the petitions at, were they still in Columbus or
8 whether they were out in the counties. So part of it
9 I was asking about some mechanics of if one needed to
10 see some documents to check and verify on signatures.
11 Q. Do you happen to know what Matt
12 Damschroder's political party affiliation is?
13 A. Republican.
14 Q. Do you know Brooke Bodney?
15 A. I don't know her. I've heard the name.
16 Q. What do you know of Brooke Bodney?
17 A. I think she's done fundraising.
18 Q. Do you know who she does fundraising for?
19 A. I'm not sure who all of her clients are
20 or have been.
21 Q. Have you communicated with Brooke Bodney
22 since, let's say, January 1st, 2014?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did you communicate with Brooke Bodney on
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 39 of 229 PAGEID #: 6246
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
40
1 August 18th, 2014?
2 A. August 18th? I haven't talk to her,
3 known her, anything. Maybe I met her once in 2010,
4 but I haven't had any communications, anything that I
5 know of in years.
6 Q. Is Brooke Bodney one of the interested
7 persons that you're going to ask for money to pay
8 your lawyers?
9 A. I don't really know her, so I probably
10 wouldn't call her.
11 Q. Since January 1st, 2014, have you
12 received $10,000 or more from anyone?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Who?
15 A. I'm a state employee, so I get a check in
16 that way. There's a campaign in Perry Township on a
17 JEDZ.
18 Q. I'm sorry?
19 A. There was a campaign in Perry Township,
20 which is in Franklin County, on a JEDZ tax issue --
21 well, I'm not sure whether that was over 10,000 or
22 whether it was -- I don't remember the exact amount,
23 but I did work, this spring, on a Perry Township tax
24 issue against a JEDZ, but I don't remember the exact
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 40 of 229 PAGEID #: 6247
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
41
1 amount, but it could have been around that amount, it
2 could have been a little less, could have been
3 slightly more, I don't know.
4 Q. Are there any others?
5 A. I don't remember the exact amount, but
6 there were some billings from the Summit County
7 Republican Party on things I did last year, and we
8 kind of completed and caught up the payments on that,
9 and that could have been around that amount. I don't
10 know exactly how much it's totaled up to. I've done
11 other things for them this year.
12 Q. Are there any others?
13 A. At the 10,000 or more level?
14 Q. Yes.
15 A. Not that I can recall right now.
16 Q. Since January 1st, 2014?
17 A. Not that I can recall.
18 Q. When Mr. Felsoci filed his protest, did
19 you happen to read it?
20 A. Yes.
21 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
22 Q. Mr. Casey, in front of you is a copy of
23 the Felsoci protest. I believe it's marked Exhibit
24 2. Is this a copy of the protest that you read?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 41 of 229 PAGEID #: 6248
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
42
1 A. It looks familiar. I haven't looked
2 through all the pages to know that it's exactly
3 precisely that, but it looks in general like what
4 I've seen before.
5 Q. Do you know Carl Akers?
6 A. Who?
7 Q. Carl Akers.
8 A. The name's kind of familiar, but refresh
9 my memory and maybe it will -- I don't know the
10 person, but the name distantly sounds familiar.
11 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
12 Q. I've placed in front of you Exhibit 3, I
13 believe it's numbered, and this is a February 21st,
14 2014, protest against Steven Linnabary by Carl Akers,
15 Carl Michael Akers. Have you seen this protest
16 before?
17 A. I think I remember seeing something along
18 this line.
19 Q. Does that refresh your memory of Carl
20 Makers -- Carl Akers?
21 A. I'm guessing now, but I think he was
22 testifying on something at the Secretary of State's
23 hearing back in late February or early March. I'm
24 guessing that's the same person. There was somebody
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 42 of 229 PAGEID #: 6249
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
43
1 testifying, I remember, but I don't remember exactly
2 the name.
3 Q. Was he a protestor challenging Steven
4 Linnabary? Do you remember?
5 A. That sounds familiar, but I can't testify
6 with certainty.
7 Q. Did you know Mr. Akers before filing the
8 protest?
9 A. Other than seeing him that one time, I've
10 never seen him before or after, and I have no
11 knowledge or information about him.
12 Q. If you look at the last page of the
13 filing.
14 A. Page 5?
15 Q. Page 5, yes. I apologize, I thought the
16 lawyer's name was on it. Do you happen to know who
17 represented Mr. Akers?
18 A. I remember seeing him standing there, but
19 I can't remember names or I don't remember ever
20 seeing or hearing them prior to that or afterwards.
21 Q. Did you arrange for the representation of
22 Mr. Akers in this case?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Do you know who did?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 43 of 229 PAGEID #: 6250
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
44
1 A. I don't know with certainty, no.
2 Q. Do you have any ideas?
3 A. I don't know.
4 Q. I believe you said you had no idea with
5 any certainty, which suggests maybe you got some
6 ideas.
7 A. Well, I could offer a guess, but I'd
8 rather not testify to guesses.
9 Q. Why not?
10 A. Because I'm under oath, under penalty of
11 law, and guessing and speculation aren't good to do.
12 Q. As long as you say it's a guess.
13 A. Well, I --
14 MR. TIGGES: Mr. Brown, I don't want to
15 have to go through the issue with your facial
16 expressions that are disrespectful to the witness.
17 Please don't do it.
18 MR. BROWN: I move to strike Mr. Tigges'
19 comments.
20 MR. KAFANTARIS: And I would also put in
21 the record that I have not seen any facial
22 expressions by Mr. Brown towards the witness.
23 MR. TIGGES: Well, since you're looking
24 at me and not him, that's what I would expect.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 44 of 229 PAGEID #: 6251
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
45
1 MR. BROWN: Steve, let it go.
2 I move to strike Mr. Tigges' comments.
3 Let the record reflect that I've made no facial
4 expressions towards the witness or anyone else.
5 MR. ZEIGER: Let the record reflect I've
6 been watching Mr. Brown and, in fact, he did make a
7 facial expression toward the witness.
8 MR. KAFANTARIS: I guess I'll direct my
9 attention to you.
10 MR. BROWN: Can we go off the record?
11 (Discussion off the record.)
12 MR. ZEIGER: Professor Brown wants to
13 make statements off the record that are
14 inappropriate. Let's have them on the record,
15 please.
16 MR. BROWN: And my statement to
17 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges is I'm asking them to cease
18 interrupting the deposition and accusing me of making
19 facial expressions at anyone. This is not the first
20 time it's happened. It's unseemly, it's
21 unprofessional, and I am asking them to cease.
22 MR. TIGGES: You may not know you're
23 doing it. I don't know. But you have a habit of
24 making expressions of disbelief towards the
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 45 of 229 PAGEID #: 6252
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
46
1 witnesses. I've seen it repeatedly. You can ask the
2 witness if he's seen it if you want. All I ask is
3 you not do that.
4 MR. BROWN: Steve, I'm not going to argue
5 with you.
6 MR. TIGGES: Treat the witness with the
7 appropriate respect. That's all.
8 MR. BROWN: Steve, I've brought witnesses
9 with me this time, so you're not going to get away
10 with this nonsense. Let's just move on and get this
11 deposition done and then we can all go home.
12 MR. TIGGES: I've asked you to conduct
13 yourself appropriately, Mark. That's all I'm asking.
14 MR. BROWN: Steve, I'm asking the same of
15 you.
16 MR. TIGGES: And I will.
17 MR. BROWN: Well, we'll see if you do.
18 Q. (By Mr. Brown) Mr. Casey, we're back.
19 And I believe we left off talking about Carl Akers.
20 And my question to you is whether you know who
21 represented Mr. Akers. I believe you said you did
22 not.
23 A. I mean, I saw them standing there, but I
24 don't remember their names or anything else.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 46 of 229 PAGEID #: 6253
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
47
1 Q. And then my question to you was: Do you
2 know who paid Mr. Akers' lawyers?
3 A. No.
4 Q. And then my question to you was: You
5 have no idea?
6 A. I'm sorry?
7 Q. My question to you was: You have no idea
8 who paid Mr. Akers' lawyers?
9 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
10 A. I don't know who paid them or hired them.
11 Q. Did you approach Mr. Zeiger and
12 Mr. Tigges about representing Mr. Akers?
13 A. I don't remember any discussions. I
14 don't even know who Mr. Akers is, so I guess I
15 couldn't have.
16 Q. Did you hire Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges to
17 represent anybody who might protest Steven Linnabary?
18 A. No, because I was focused on these
19 questions and issues.
20 Q. Why were you focused on Charlie Earl?
21 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
22 Go ahead and answer if you can.
23 A. I wasn't focused just on Mr. Earl.
24 Q. Who were you focused on?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 47 of 229 PAGEID #: 6254
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
48
1 A. The bigger focus and question in my mind
2 is what the Ohio Democrat Party and their top agents
3 were doing.
4 Q. Why did you challenge Mr. Earl?
5 A. Because Mr. Earl seemed to be a
6 beneficiary of what they were doing.
7 Q. Is there anything wrong with what the
8 Democrats were doing?
9 A. I didn't know. That's why I wanted to,
10 when I saw the filed Form 14's, it raised a big
11 question of Ian James, Don McTigue, his law partner,
12 and how they were involved with the Libertarian
13 Party.
14 Q. Why did you want to remain secret,
15 Mr. Casey?
16 A. I don't know that I chose to remain
17 secret, but . . .
18 Q. Your lawyers refused to disclose your
19 identity for a long time. Do you know why?
20 A. I don't know.
21 Q. Would you have just as well been
22 disclosed?
23 A. I'm sorry?
24 Q. Would it have been your decision to
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 48 of 229 PAGEID #: 6255
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
49
1 disclose your identity, is that what you wanted?
2 A. We never discussed it.
3 Q. How did you contact Mr. Felsoci?
4 A. By telephone.
5 Q. Do you remember when you called him?
6 A. Been sometime in mid to late February.
7 Q. What did you say to Mr. Felsoci?
8 A. I'm trying to remember roughly, but it
9 was something to the effect of that I understood he
10 was a member or had voted as a Libertarian Party
11 member, and there were questions on the petitions of
12 the Libertarians, and especially what the Democrat
13 Party was doing, and that in order to make sure that
14 it was fully examined, there needed to be a protest
15 filed with the Secretary of State's office.
16 Q. How did you get Mr. Felsoci's phone
17 number?
18 A. One or two people -- or, I don't know
19 which person it was, but gave me a name, because I
20 was, in that period, contacting some people in Lucas
21 County, Summit County, Franklin County, and other
22 political people if they knew people who had been
23 Libertarian, had voted Libertarian who might be party
24 to a protest.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 49 of 229 PAGEID #: 6256
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
50
1 Q. How did you contact these people?
2 A. By telephone usually. I might have sent
3 an e-mail out.
4 Q. Did you send an e-mail out, by chance?
5 A. I don't recall offhand.
6 Q. Do you know if you sent an e-mail to John
7 Musca?
8 A. I don't have his e-mail so I couldn't
9 have sent him an e-mail, at least I don't think I do.
10 I don't recall.
11 Q. What would your e-mail have said?
12 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
13 You can answer the question if you
14 understand what's been asked of you.
15 A. I'm not sure what it said. And, again, I
16 don't know how much of the looking as to a potential
17 Libertarian, I don't know how much was done by e-mail
18 or how much was done by phone.
19 Q. Would your e-mail, that you sent out to
20 various people, have mentioned Oscar Hatchett?
21 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
22 A. I don't remember whether either verbally
23 or e-mail. I know Oscar Hatchett was very much on my
24 mind because his involvement and the signatures
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 50 of 229 PAGEID #: 6257
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
51
1 raised big questions.
2 Q. How did you know Oscar Hatchett was a
3 circulator for Mr. Earl and Mr. Linnabary?
4 A. Looked over the petitions.
5 Q. How did you get those petitions?
6 A. I don't know whether I got them from the
7 Secretary of State or somebody else politically had
8 them and that I had looked at.
9 Q. So you saw Hatchett's name on the
10 petition; is that correct?
11 A. Well, as I recall, he had got a huge
12 number of signatures, and I remember doing some
13 Googling on Oscar Hatchett Jr., because there's an
14 Oscar Hatchett the father and then there's the person
15 who got the signatures, Oscar Hatchett Jr., and when
16 I did some Googling, big red flags came up.
17 Q. What were the red flags that came up?
18 A. One of the searches indicated he was a
19 professional petition circulator, available for hire.
20 Another related, I think, to Pennsylvania and some
21 conviction for some sexual offense. There was
22 something, I think, on the Attorney General's website
23 that indicated he was a registered sex offender of
24 some type. So it was things like that.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 51 of 229 PAGEID #: 6258
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
52
1 Q. Did you print that out off your computer?
2 A. I believe so, yes.
3 Q. Did you send that by e-mail to anyone?
4 A. I could have sent it to some folks, and I
5 also sent it to the attorneys and they did some
6 searching, too, on Mr. Hatchett.
7 Q. Did you communicate with Matthew
8 Damschroder about Oscar Hatchett?
9 A. He could have been one of the persons I
10 sent a copy of those documents to.
11 Q. Did you ask Mr. Damschroder to do a
12 background check on Mr. Hatchett?
13 A. I don't know whether I used that term or
14 not, but . . .
15 Q. But you did ask him to do some kind of
16 check on Oscar Hatchett; is that correct?
17 A. I don't remember exactly what I said to
18 him, either in e-mail or verbally, but Oscar Hatchett
19 Jr., as I said, was a big red flag of why this guy
20 was involved and doing what he was doing.
21 Q. Did you ask or instruct anybody at the
22 Secretary of State's office to do a background check
23 on Oscar Hatchett?
24 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 52 of 229 PAGEID #: 6259
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
53
1 A. I don't think I asked anybody to do a
2 background check.
3 Q. Did you ask anyone to do any kind of
4 check on Oscar Hatchett?
5 A. I think I might have asked the question,
6 in Matt's recollection, I also ask of our attorneys,
7 whether or not somebody being a registered sex
8 offender would prohibit them from circulating
9 petitions or being a paid circulator.
10 Q. I'm sorry. I'm deaf in one ear. Did you
11 say you asked Matt to do that?
12 A. No. I asked a number of people the
13 question of whether there was anything statutorily
14 that prohibited a registered sex offender from being
15 a circulator of petitions.
16 Q. Did you ask Matthew Damschroder that?
17 A. I might have indicated that was a
18 question. I don't know whether I -- he's obviously
19 not an attorney.
20 Q. Do you know Brandi Seskes?
21 A. Name doesn't ring a bell.
22 Q. I believe I asked you earlier if, on
23 February 17th, 2014, you contacted Matt Damschroder
24 and told him that you were going to file a protest;
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 53 of 229 PAGEID #: 6260
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
54
1 is that correct?
2 MR. TIGGES: The question is whether you
3 asked him that previously?
4 Q. Did I ask you that previously, yes.
5 MR. TIGGES: Yes, you did ask that
6 previously.
7 MR. BROWN: Steve, let him answer, okay?
8 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
9 A. Okay. Tell me the question again.
10 Q. Did I ask you previously whether you
11 contacted Matt Damschroder, on February 17th, about
12 filing a protest?
13 A. I'm not sure whether you asked me that
14 question or not. You've asked me so many questions.
15 It's hard for me to play back which ones you've
16 asked.
17 Q. Did you contact Matt Damschroder, on
18 February 17th, about filing a protest?
19 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Asked and
20 answered.
21 A. At some point in that period, I mentioned
22 to Mike we were -- or, to Matt, we were looking at
23 doing some kind of thing like that. So I don't
24 remember the exact wording or what was said.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 54 of 229 PAGEID #: 6261
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
55
1 Q. Would it have been on February 17th,
2 2014?
3 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
4 A. I don't remember the exact date.
5 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
6 Q. I've placed in front of you, Mr. Casey,
7 Exhibit 4. If you look at the top you'll see it is
8 an e-mail involving Matt Damschroder. And if you
9 look down below the redacted portion you'll see
10 "Thanks!!"
11 And then on Monday, February 17th, 2014,
12 at 11:15 p.m. Matt Damschroder wrote "Also, got a
13 call tonight that a protest is likely to come by
14 Friday against Earl, probably from an unaffiliated
15 voter...." Would Mr. Damschroder have been referring
16 to you as the source of that call?
17 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
18 A. I don't know. I mean, it doesn't look
19 like anything I sent him, but I don't know what basis
20 he had that or who he talked to.
21 Q. Were you likely the one who made that
22 phone call?
23 A. I don't know.
24 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 55 of 229 PAGEID #: 6262
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
56
1 Q. I've placed in front of you, Mr. Casey,
2 Exhibit 5, and it's a collection of text messages,
3 and I ask if you'll look at the very bottom on the
4 page on the right you'll see there's actually some
5 numbers. 0076, do you see that number on the very
6 bottom?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And then over on the bottom of the next
9 page, 0077.
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Do you see those numbers? I'm asking you
12 to look at the text of the message on 0076. It says
13 to Terry Casey, Monday, February 17th, 8:07 p.m. Did
14 you send this text message to Matt Damschroder?
15 A. You're looking at this first page here?
16 Q. First page, yes, sir, Mr. Casey.
17 A. I'm not familiar with this format of
18 texting. It sounds like it says to Terry Casey and
19 then it's got some message here. So I don't know
20 whether that's something Matt was sending to me, I
21 don't know.
22 Q. Did you receive that from Matthew
23 Damschroder?
24 A. I don't remember.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 56 of 229 PAGEID #: 6263
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
57
1 Q. Do you have a cell phone?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did you have an iPhone?
4 A. I have an iPhone.
5 Q. Do you know how to text off that iPhone?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. These are actually, I think, screenshots
8 from Matthew Damschroder's iPhone. Does
9 Mr. Damschroder take classes in the evening? Do you
10 know?
11 A. I know, at times, he's been working on a
12 master's in public administration.
13 Q. If you look at the next page, 0077,
14 you'll see off to the right there at the bottom,
15 "I'll call after class." Is that something you would
16 send to Mr. Damschroder or is that something
17 Mr. Damschroder would send to you?
18 A. It might have been him saying that he'd
19 call after class.
20 Q. And if that's true, then the message on
21 the left would be from you to Mr. Damschroder; is
22 that correct?
23 A. I don't know. I'm not familiar with this
24 set up. I mean, I know if I hit my computer, you
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 57 of 229 PAGEID #: 6264
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
58
1 know, in one color it's got what I'm sending and
2 another color what I'm receiving, but as I'm looking
3 at it right now, I don't know.
4 Q. So you don't remember anything about a
5 message to or from Mr. Damschroder involving the
6 McTigue law firm and 828k dollars to Chris Redfern?
7 A. I'm sorry, the question is do I remember?
8 Q. Do you know anything about that?
9 A. Well, I remember there being some
10 questions around that time on McTigue's law firm and
11 money, some Citizens for Liberty or whatever. I
12 remember there were some questions of that.
13 Q. Does that not refresh your memory in
14 regard to whether you sent this message to Matt
15 Damschroder?
16 A. It's possible I sent it, but, again, I
17 don't know from the format because it doesn't look
18 like how I see it on my phone.
19 Q. Do you see at the very top, right above
20 the message, it says Monday, February 17, 8:07 p.m.?
21 A. I see that, yes.
22 Q. Would that indicate that this message was
23 sent on Monday, February 17th at 8:07 p.m.?
24 A. I don't know. I'm not an expert in text
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 58 of 229 PAGEID #: 6265
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
59
1 messages and how these copies are formatted.
2 Q. If you look at the next page, 0077, you
3 see it says to Terry Casey. "Any time tonight to
4 discuss plus other issues and questions?? Thanks!
5 Terry." Did you send that to Matt Damschroder?
6 A. I don't remember off the top of my head,
7 because I, in the course of a year, literally
8 thousands of e-mails, texts, and everything like
9 that.
10 Q. Do you think Mr. Damschroder sent that to
11 you?
12 A. The "Any time tonight to discuss," do I
13 think he sent that?
14 Q. Yes.
15 A. Just looking at this, if this is correct,
16 it's probably something maybe I sent, I don't know.
17 Q. Then if you look at the next page, 0078,
18 halfway down the page it says Friday, February 21,
19 4:41 p.m. "Checking to find out if a protest was
20 filed against the Libertarian Party candidate for
21 AG??" Did you send that to Matt Damschroder?
22 A. It's possible. I remember around that
23 time I was curious whether anything had been filed by
24 any other candidates.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 59 of 229 PAGEID #: 6266
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
60
1 Q. Why were you curious?
2 A. Just interested to see if there was going
3 to be a protest filed.
4 Q. Did you ever tell Matt Damschroder that
5 you were responsible for hiring Steve Tigges and John
6 Zeiger?
7 A. It's possible I could have mentioned that
8 I had talked to Mr. Zeiger and his law firm about
9 this.
10 Q. Did you ever tell him that you had hired
11 them to represent Gregory Felsoci in the protest?
12 A. I don't remember ever saying anything
13 exactly that way, but I could have discussed, in
14 general, Zeiger's potential involvement.
15 Q. Do you happen to know when?
16 A. No, I don't know the exact date.
17 Q. Would it have been before the protest was
18 filed?
19 A. Might have been, I don't know.
20 Q. So it could have been before February
21 21st, 2014?
22 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Calls for
23 speculation.
24 Q. It could have been before February 21st,
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 60 of 229 PAGEID #: 6267
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
61
1 2014?
2 MR. TIGGES: Same objection. Calls for
3 speculation.
4 A. "Could be" questions I'm not as good at.
5 Q. I believe you did say it might have been,
6 and I'm just trying to figure out if "might" means
7 "could." Does "might" mean "could"?
8 A. You're at an intellectual level above me
9 on that verbal speculation.
10 Q. Did you ever send e-mails to Matt
11 Damschroder?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. On a regular basis?
14 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
15 A. Probably. It depends on your definition
16 of "regular," but I've sent Matt lots, if I'm doing
17 media events and other kind of things, would keep him
18 in the loop as far as clips and other things I'd see.
19 Q. Why would Mr. Damschroder want to be in
20 the loop?
21 MR. TIGGES: Objection. No foundation.
22 Calls for speculation.
23 Go ahead and answer if you can.
24 A. Over the years, Matt's been interested in
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 61 of 229 PAGEID #: 6268
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
62
1 political activities, as I have.
2 Q. Has he asked you, in particular, for
3 information on Republican Party politics?
4 A. I don't know if he's asked me for
5 information. I've asked him for information, if I'm
6 doing TV shows, on background on legal requirements
7 in Ohio, et cetera.
8 Q. When you correspond with Mr. Damschroder,
9 is it usually you or he who initiates the
10 communication?
11 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
12 A. Probably more me.
13 Q. Does Mr. Damschroder ever reach out to
14 you without a question being asked by you?
15 A. There's probably been times, yes.
16 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
17 Q. Mr. Casey, I've placed in front of you
18 Exhibit 6. It's an e-mail from, it says at the very
19 top Matthew Damschroder, and it uses, if you see
20 there, it uses what I believe to be his personal
21 e-mail address, is that correct,
22 [email protected]? Do you know that to be
23 his personal e-mail address?
24 A. That sounds right, but I don't know
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 62 of 229 PAGEID #: 6269
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
63
1 exactly, but that sounds roughly correctly.
2 Q. And then if you look right below the line
3 that says Jack Christopher, it says FYI...Bcc from
4 Terry L. Casey." Do you see that language?
5 A. I see it.
6 Q. What does "Bcc" mean? Do you know?
7 A. It usually means blind carbon copy.
8 Q. If you look down a little bit farther, it
9 says from Terry Casey, [email protected]. Is that your
10 e-mail address?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Dated February 27, to John Zeiger and
13 [email protected]. Do you see that language?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Who is Mead?
16 A. It would be Dan Mead.
17 Q. And is he a lawyer with the Zeiger law
18 firm?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And then, of course, there's language
21 about an interesting piece on Brad Smith. Did you
22 blind copy that e-mail to Mr. Zeiger to Matt
23 Damschroder?
24 A. I sent Matt, and I'm not sure whether I
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 63 of 229 PAGEID #: 6270
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
64
1 sent anybody else a blind copy of that.
2 Q. Why did you do that?
3 A. It was an article in "The Wall Street
4 Journal" on that date that I thought was interesting
5 because I had had questions in my mind of how good
6 and fair of a hearing officer would Mr. Smith be.
7 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder, after he received
8 that e-mail, ask you who John Zeiger was?
9 A. I don't recall.
10 Q. Did he ask you who Dan Mead was?
11 A. I don't recall that.
12 Q. Did you have any conversation with Matt
13 Damschroder about this e-mail?
14 A. Not that I recall. I doubt that I did,
15 but I don't recall exactly.
16 Q. Was it your intent, when you sent this
17 e-mail to Matt Damschroder, to inform him that John
18 Zeiger was your lawyer?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Do you think Mr. Damschroder understood
21 from this e-mail that John Zeiger was your lawyer?
22 MR. TIGGES: Objection. No foundation.
23 Calls for speculation.
24 A. I don't know what he would have
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 64 of 229 PAGEID #: 6271
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
65
1 understood.
2 Q. Was it your -- strike that.
3 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
4 Q. I've placed in front of you, Mr. Casey,
5 Exhibit 7. At the top you'll see it, too, is an
6 e-mail from Matthew Damschroder, using his personal
7 e-mail account, dated February 28th, 2014, to Jack
8 Christopher. Do you see that? And if you read down
9 a little bit farther it says from Casey Terry,
10 [email protected]. Is that your e-mail address?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And then it says to Mead, and then carbon
13 copies Zeiger, "Zeiger John." Do you see that?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Is this an e-mail that you sent to Dan
16 Mead and John Zeiger on February 28th, 2014?
17 A. It looks like it, yes.
18 Q. And then did you blind copy that to Matt
19 Damschroder?
20 A. Apparently I did.
21 Q. Why did you do that?
22 A. Because, as I recall, and I forget
23 whether the 28th was a Friday, I forget the dates and
24 the time, but there was, in the news, I think that
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 65 of 229 PAGEID #: 6272
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
66
1 day, a question on the building where the Secretary
2 of State's office where they were going to have the
3 hearing, I thought it was on Monday, whether or not
4 the blast, whether the building was going to be
5 reopened, and then there was a big question on a
6 snowstorm.
7 So part of the question was was there
8 going to be a hearing or not. So it was more of a
9 general informational kind of thing, whether to have
10 the hearing on that Monday or not.
11 Q. Why did you blind copy him on this?
12 A. I don't recall.
13 Q. Is it because you did not want your
14 lawyers to know that you were communicating with Matt
15 Damschroder?
16 A. I don't recall that.
17 Q. Do you frequently blind copy
18 Mr. Damschroder e-mails?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Why?
21 A. Just lots of political things, clippings,
22 things that are going on, discussion topics on TV
23 shows coming up, et cetera.
24 Q. Why do you blind copy him? Why not just
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 66 of 229 PAGEID #: 6273
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
67
1 copy him?
2 A. I don't know. I just have done it that
3 way.
4 Q. Is it because you don't want people to
5 know?
6 A. I don't know.
7 Q. If you look at the stack of texts,
8 Mr. Casey, if you look at the very bottom, I'm
9 looking at 0080. Do you see that page?
10 A. Just a second. Okay.
11 Q. At the very top it says New Message and
12 then it says to Terry Casey. Off to the right it
13 says "In a meeting."
14 A. Uh-huh.
15 Q. Would that be Mr. Damschroder telling you
16 he's in a meeting?
17 A. That would be my assumption. I don't
18 know that to be fact.
19 Q. Then the message underneath that reads
20 "Thanks. When handy can update me on who did this
21 filing. Plus more items to discuss later. Terry."
22 That would be your text message to Matt Damschroder?
23 A. That sounds like that'd be the case.
24 Q. And that would be on February 27th?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 67 of 229 PAGEID #: 6274
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
68
1 A. I believe so.
2 Q. What "more items" did you want to discuss
3 with Mr. Damschroder?
4 A. I don't recall offhand.
5 Q. And if you turn the page over -- I'm
6 sorry. Strike that.
7 A. Which page do you want me to be on?
8 Q. Strike that. I want to look at this just
9 one second. Do you know if Mr. Damschroder, after
10 receiving this message, called you?
11 A. Which message are we talking about?
12 Q. It was on 0080, that page. I was going
13 to have you move on, but I decided to stay on that
14 page.
15 A. I don't recall.
16 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
17 Q. I've placed in front of you, Mr. Casey,
18 Exhibit 8, and this is an e-mail from Matt
19 Damschroder, again using his personal e-mail account,
20 to you, dated March 4th, 2014; is that correct?
21 A. That's what it says.
22 Q. And he appears to have sent you something
23 about Karen Kasler. Do you know Karen Kasler?
24 A. Yes.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 68 of 229 PAGEID #: 6275
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
69
1 Q. Who is Karen Kasler?
2 A. She works in TV.
3 Q. Do you remember receiving this from
4 Mr. Damschroder?
5 A. Vaguely, yes.
6 Q. Why did he send it to you? Do you know?
7 A. I don't know.
8 Q. Did you ever respond?
9 A. I don't recall.
10 Q. This would have been on March 4th, 2014?
11 A. That's what it says.
12 Q. Do you remember when the hearing protest
13 was being conducted?
14 A. I don't remember the exact date. If
15 Friday was the 28th of February, then this might have
16 been a Tuesday, but I'm not a hundred percent
17 certain.
18 Q. If the hearing commenced on Tuesday, that
19 would have been March 4th, would it not?
20 A. That sounds right, but I don't have a
21 calender in front of me.
22 Q. So Mr. Damschroder sent you this e-mail
23 while the hearing was ongoing; is that correct?
24 A. That's what it appears.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 69 of 229 PAGEID #: 6276
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
70
1 Q. If you look at a copy of the text
2 messages I placed in front of you earlier, Mr. Casey,
3 look at page 91, and then continuing over to page 93,
4 0093.
5 A. We talking 90, 91, and 92?
6 Q. I'm sorry 91, 92, and 93.
7 A. Okay. Well, there was also 90.
8 Q. Yeah, let's skip that one.
9 A. But that was in the same sequence.
10 Q. Well, we can look at that one first if
11 you like, that's fine. That will give us more
12 context. So look at page 90. At the very top of the
13 page it says to Terry Casey and then, off to the
14 right, it says "Will call shortly." Do you see that
15 box?
16 A. I don't know what date that "will call
17 shortly," that might have been something else. I
18 don't know what date that one . . .
19 Q. But you do understand that "will call
20 shortly" was from Mr. Damschroder; is that correct?
21 A. Right. But I don't know when he sent
22 that.
23 Q. Okay. And then if you look at the
24 language underneath that, you say "Any sense when
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 70 of 229 PAGEID #: 6277
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
71
1 today the Brad Smith report comes out? Direction?
2 Have 9:30 a.m. Channel 10 taping. Thanks. Terry."
3 Do you see that language?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Do you remember having a 9:30 a.m.
6 Channel 10 taping?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. What day would that have been?
9 A. On a Friday.
10 Q. That would have been Friday,
11 March 7th; is that correct?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. So then this text message from you to
14 Matt Damschroder was on Friday, March 7th.
15 A. That would be my understanding, yes.
16 Q. Then if you flip the page.
17 A. But part of it is I was getting ready to
18 do that taping and I had no idea when anything was
19 going to come out of the Secretary of State's office,
20 and I was doing the taping at 9:30, I didn't know
21 when or if something would be out.
22 Q. Sure.
23 Go ahead and flip the page, Mr. Casey.
24 A. Okay.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 71 of 229 PAGEID #: 6278
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
72
1 Q. If you look at the next page, I believe
2 the last line is the same line off the previous page.
3 If you look down, after Friday, March 7th, 11:40 a.m.
4 "Any mid-day updates when people can see, read Brad
5 Smith's report?" Do you see that language?
6 A. Yes.
7 MR. TIGGES: You mean the first line is
8 the last line of the previous page? You said the
9 last line. You said the last line of this page is
10 the same as the last line of the previous page. I
11 think you meant to say the first line.
12 Q. Okay. But the line that I'm interested
13 in, Mr. Casey, is the line that says "Any mid-day
14 updates on when and how people can see, read Brad
15 Smith's report?" Do you see that language?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you send that to Matt Damschroder?
18 A. As I recall, yes.
19 Q. If you flip the page over to 92, you see
20 Friday, March 7, at 4:43 p.m. It says "Press release
21 out. Both off ballot." Is that from
22 Mr. Damschroder?
23 A. I would assume so, since you've got them
24 organized this way.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 72 of 229 PAGEID #: 6279
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
73
1 Q. And then if you look down at Saturday,
2 March 8th, 10:07 a.m. It says "Lawsuit filed with
3 Watson." Was that to you from Matt Damschroder?
4 A. I would assume, if what you're telling
5 me, it all came from the same source, that would be
6 the case.
7 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder, in fact, send you a
8 copy of the Hearing Officer's Report and
9 Recommendation?
10 A. I think sometime around that 4:43 or 4:44
11 or 4:45, I vaguely remember getting something from
12 Mr. Zeiger that something was out, and also getting
13 something from Matt that it had been finalized and
14 done.
15 Q. So did you, in fact, read the final
16 Report and Recommendation --
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. -- issued by Brad Smith?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Who was that Report and Recommendation in
21 favor of? Do you remember?
22 A. As I recall, it was in favor of
23 Mr. Felsoci's protest and, as I recall, took them --
24 I'm trying to remember whether he wrote it all as one
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 73 of 229 PAGEID #: 6280
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
74
1 on Gubernatorial Lieutenant Governor plus AG, I can't
2 remember how they were grouped together, but I guess
3 the thing I was surprised by was his report and the
4 Secretary of State's decision all came out at one
5 time in one package.
6 Q. Then if you turn the page over to 93, you
7 see at the very top it says New Message and it says
8 to Terry Casey, Saturday, March 8, 9:21 p.m. Then
9 underneath you say "Thanks!! Can discuss more Sunday
10 or Monday. AG still trying to figure their game
11 plan. Terry." Do you see that language?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Is that language you wrote to Matt
14 Damschroder?
15 A. It sounds roughly familiar.
16 Q. And that would have been on Saturday,
17 March 8th?
18 A. I assume so, yes.
19 Q. How did you know that the AG was still
20 trying to figure their game plan?
21 A. I think the question was who was going to
22 represent the AG.
23 Q. Who asked you that question?
24 A. Who asked me?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 74 of 229 PAGEID #: 6281
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
75
1 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
2 A. I don't know that anybody asked me that
3 question.
4 Q. I know, but you said "the question was,"
5 I was just wondering if someone asked that question
6 or put that question to you.
7 A. Nobody put it to me.
8 Q. Why would you send that message to Matt
9 Damschroder?
10 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
11 A. I remember a question in my mind, this is
12 just me as one person, whether or not the AG, because
13 he was a party not on the gubernatorial thing but on
14 the Linnabary thing, whether he was going to have
15 outside counsel or do it in-house because there might
16 be a question of conflict or not.
17 Q. Why would Matt Damschroder care about
18 that?
19 A. I don't know.
20 Q. Why would you care about that?
21 A. Just, I'm a Republican and the question
22 might come up of whether that's the best way for the
23 AG to do it or not.
24 Q. Do you think the AG needed outside
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 75 of 229 PAGEID #: 6282
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
76
1 counsel?
2 A. I don't know. I just knew that the
3 question might come up of whether, if he's
4 representing himself on something that he benefits,
5 whether or not there's a conflict or not.
6 Q. So you did suspect there might be a
7 potential conflict of interest in this case.
8 A. I knew a question could come up.
9 Q. And why is that?
10 A. Because the AG's representing the
11 Secretary of State, but the AG is the candidate in
12 question.
13 Q. Did you think it might be a potential
14 conflict of interest because the Hearing Officer was
15 working for the Attorney General?
16 A. I don't know about that fact. At least
17 didn't know at that time.
18 Q. Did you know now?
19 A. I think Mr. Zeiger mentioned something to
20 that effect, a couple weeks ago. I didn't know about
21 it till then.
22 Q. If you flip the page from 93 to 94,
23 Mr. Casey, you see a text message dated Sunday,
24 March 9, at 9:49 p.m. And it says "Any time tonight
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 76 of 229 PAGEID #: 6283
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
77
1 or early in a.m. to discuss how the legal teams are
2 lining up." Do you see that language?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you write that language to
5 Mr. Damschroder?
6 A. It sounds like something I might have
7 written.
8 Q. That would have been on Sunday, March 9?
9 A. That's what it says.
10 Q. And you mentioned "legal teams." Which
11 legal teams are you referring to?
12 A. That presumably would be the AG and the
13 representation on the AG's aspect of it.
14 Q. Why did you want to discuss that with
15 Mr. Damschroder?
16 A. I was just curious of how they were going
17 to do it.
18 Q. Did you think Mr. Damschroder knew?
19 A. I don't know whether he knew or when he
20 would know, but somebody had to make a decision at
21 some time.
22 Q. Was Mr. Damschroder feeding you inside
23 information about the AG's office?
24 A. I don't think so.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 77 of 229 PAGEID #: 6284
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
78
1 Q. But you were asking for inside
2 information about the AG's office.
3 A. I don't think so.
4 Q. If you'll flip the page, Mr. Casey,
5 you'll see page 95.
6 A. Okay.
7 Q. Monday, March 10, at 8:28 a.m. "Any time
8 this a.m. to connect by phone? Thanks. Terry." Is
9 that a message you sent to Matt Damschroder?
10 A. Probably.
11 Q. Why did you want to speak to him by
12 phone?
13 A. Just to kind of follow up on what was
14 going to happen on the legal battles as they went
15 forward.
16 Q. And then if you look at the bottom, it
17 says Monday, March 10, 3:57. You state "When handy
18 can discuss more. Best in person." Actually, if you
19 flip the page, look at page 96, you'll see the rest
20 of that message.
21 A. Right.
22 Q. "Know you are busy on the higher priority
23 issue. Terry." What did you mean by that?
24 A. I really don't know.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 78 of 229 PAGEID #: 6285
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
79
1 Q. Why was it best in person to discuss this
2 with Mr. Damschroder?
3 A. I don't know. Sometimes on the phone is
4 not as good as meeting in person.
5 Q. What's the "higher priority issue"?
6 A. At least in my mind is how is the AG
7 going to be represented. I mean it wasn't a case I
8 was directly involved in, but was interested in how
9 it was going to be handled.
10 Q. Were you concerned with the AG
11 representing himself as opposed to having outside
12 counsel?
13 A. That was part of the question.
14 Q. Did you think outside counsel would do a
15 better job for the AG?
16 A. Don't know. Depend on who they had in
17 the AG staff and who they had as outside counsel.
18 Q. Who was the AG's counsel at the time? Do
19 you remember?
20 A. Don't remember offhand.
21 Q. Do you know if it was Bridget Coontz?
22 A. She was involved at some point, but I
23 don't know whether she was involved at that stage.
24 Q. Do you know who else was involved with
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 79 of 229 PAGEID #: 6286
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
80
1 Bridget Coontz?
2 A. No, I don't.
3 Q. Does the name Richard Coglianese ring a
4 bell?
5 A. He's done things in the past for the AG's
6 office.
7 Q. Do you know if he's still on the case?
8 A. I don't think. I think he's in another
9 section now.
10 Q. Do you know which section he's in?
11 A. Something regarding employment law or
12 something of that nature.
13 Q. Do you know why he's in that section?
14 A. Have no idea.
15 Q. If you flip the page over to page 97 and
16 98, actually. I think you need both of those pages
17 to get the full text. It says "Thanks. Just
18 discussing that with attorneys. Another reason why
19 DeWine should have" -- and if you flip the page --
20 "excellent, outside counsel. But he did not make
21 that suggested choice." Do you remember what day
22 that was when you sent that message?
23 A. I don't remember, know exactly, I don't.
24 Q. How did you know the AG did not make that
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 80 of 229 PAGEID #: 6287
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
81
1 choice?
2 A. I don't know whether Matt said something
3 or somebody else said something, I don't remember.
4 Q. Who suggested that choice to the AG?
5 A. Which choice?
6 Q. The choice of excellent outside counsel?
7 A. I don't know what happened internally in
8 the AG's office.
9 Q. But you do say here, to Mr. Damschroder,
10 "But he did not make that suggested choice," which
11 indicates that you must know what the suggested
12 choice was.
13 A. I don't know who the exact -- what
14 options they were looking at. I just -- I just knew
15 in my personal opinion I probably would have gone
16 with outside counsel, but I'm not the Attorney
17 General and he doesn't call and ask me.
18 Q. How did you know he did not go with
19 outside counsel?
20 A. I heard it, but I don't know whether it
21 was Matt that told me or somebody else that told me.
22 Q. Below that it appears that
23 Mr. Damschroder says "I could stop by your house on
24 the way home from work. Or coffee first thing in
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 81 of 229 PAGEID #: 6288
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
82
1 a.m." Do you see that?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder, in fact, stop by
4 your house on the way home from work?
5 A. I know he did one time; whether this was
6 the time or not, I don't know.
7 Q. If you flip over to page 0100. At the
8 very top of the page it says New Message.
9 A. I was reading the one on 99 just to get
10 some flow in the context of things.
11 Q. Sure. Go right ahead.
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. Then on page 100, this is dated March 10,
14 9:01 p.m., it appears that you say "Just left phone
15 message. Zeiger would like to meet with you and Rich
16 C. from the AG office at 10:30 a.m. Tuesday." Do you
17 see that language?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who is Rich C.?
20 A. I assume it's Rich Coglianese.
21 Q. Why did Mr. Zeiger want to meet with Rich
22 C. and Matt Damschroder?
23 A. I assume he wanted to chat about some of
24 the cases since they were, at this stage, the
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 82 of 229 PAGEID #: 6289
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
83
1 Secretary of State had decided in favor of
2 Mr. Felsoci. So, in some ways, the positions were
3 aligned of Mr. Zeiger's position and the Secretary of
4 State's position; after the decision was made, their
5 positions were aligned.
6 Q. Why didn't you have Mr. Zeiger contact
7 Matt directly?
8 A. I'm trying to remember whether either
9 Matt didn't call back or whether somebody else, who
10 is a lawyer in the Secretary of State's office,
11 didn't call back. I don't remember the exact
12 details.
13 Q. Was it clear in your mind that, by this
14 date, Matt Damschroder understood that you were
15 involved with John Zeiger in protesting Charlie Earl?
16 A. I would assume so, yes.
17 Q. I know there's pages in between, but I'm
18 going to focus on page 102, Mr. Casey. You can look
19 at pages 101 and 100.
20 A. Okay. We're on 102?
21 Q. Yes, sir. And the language is "He has.
22 But Jack has been slow or kind of busy. Will have
23 him try again. Might help Jack understand why this
24 is super priority. Terry." Do you see that
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 83 of 229 PAGEID #: 6290
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
84
1 language?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Do you remember sending that message to
4 Matt Damschroder?
5 A. It sounds familiar.
6 Q. Looks like it was on or about Tuesday,
7 March 11th; is that correct?
8 A. I don't know -- it sounds like that
9 Tuesday is about right.
10 Q. What was the "super priority"? Do you
11 know?
12 A. I think the main thing was that I know
13 Mr. Zeiger was having trouble connecting with, I
14 don't know whether it was Jack Christopher or the
15 Secretary of State's office or something, I was just
16 trying to facilitate people hooking up and
17 connecting.
18 Q. So you were the conduit between
19 Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Damschroder.
20 A. I wouldn't call it "conduit."
21 Q. What would you call it? Just
22 facilitator?
23 A. I was just trying to help out people
24 connect because folks are busy and sometimes they
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 84 of 229 PAGEID #: 6291
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
85
1 miss phone messages.
2 Q. If you flip over to -- actually, again,
3 you can look at all these pages, Mr. Casey, that's
4 fine, but I'm looking at page 0104.
5 A. Okay. Let me just read the lead-in.
6 Q. Yes, sir.
7 A. Okay. I've read them.
8 Q. And you say, on page 104, you "Need by
9 Wednesday afternoon to use before Judge Watson
10 Thursday. Thanks. Terry." What did you need by
11 Wednesday afternoon? Do you remember?
12 A. What I was trying to find is people with
13 expertise on statewide petition efforts. And I had
14 reached out to Matt and a number of other people who
15 might have had that expertise.
16 Q. Did, in fact, Matt Damschroder supply you
17 with information?
18 A. I don't remember that he had any
19 suggestions, off the top of my head. I had a number
20 of people I reached out to and got several names and
21 suggestions of people that were knowledgeable in
22 those areas.
23 Q. If you look at page 106, and again,
24 please, you can read the other pages in between them
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 85 of 229 PAGEID #: 6292
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
86
1 too.
2 A. Right.
3 Q. And at the very bottom, on page 106,
4 there's a block that says "For Ian James petitions,
5 send a public records request to
6 cshea@ohiosecretaryofstate." Do you see that?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Is that from Mr. Damschroder?
9 A. I believe so.
10 Q. So he recommended that you get Ian James'
11 petitions?
12 A. No. No. I was asking something about, I
13 can't remember, Ian James, but he was basically
14 saying this is how you get public records out of
15 their office.
16 Q. I believe your question right before that
17 was "Zeiger needs an expert witness"; is that
18 correct?
19 A. That's correct.
20 Q. And then Mr. Damschroder responded "For
21 Ian James petitions, send a public records
22 request"; is that correct?
23 A. That's what I'm reading here. I don't
24 recall the exact details or the flow of things, but I
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 86 of 229 PAGEID #: 6293
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
87
1 was trying to get information that I see here that
2 Matt did suggest that Gene Pierce had been involved
3 in a paid circulator thing.
4 Q. That's over on page 107, correct?
5 A. Correct, yes.
6 Q. Did you, in fact, contact Gene Pierce?
7 A. No.
8 Q. If you flip the page over to 108, it
9 appears that Mr. Damschroder said "Also, casino
10 folks, (Whatman) paid for a lot if signatures."
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did you contact Whatman?
13 A. No.
14 Q. And then at the very bottom of that on
15 the page that's Wednesday, March 12th, you say
16 "Brandon from SSP is working well as an expert
17 witness for Zeiger...."
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Who is Brandon? Do you know?
20 A. Brandon, and you asked me too quick, it
21 begins with L-y, "Lyman," I forget the exact
22 pronunciation, but he works with SPP and has done a
23 lot of petition efforts and was knowledgeable.
24 Q. Did you, in fact, use Brandon as an
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 87 of 229 PAGEID #: 6294
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
88
1 expert witness?
2 A. I didn't use him, but I got the name to
3 Mr. Zeiger and he talked to him.
4 Q. Did you get that name from Matt
5 Damschroder?
6 A. I don't think so.
7 Q. If you flip over to 110 and, again, I'm
8 not saying you can't look at the pages before that,
9 but that's the page I'm going to look at.
10 A. Right.
11 Q. At the very bottom it appears that you
12 ask Mr. Damschroder for a report on "Was there a 2004
13 report or documentation done by the SOS office on
14 Nader petition problem? Call me." Do you see that
15 language?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Why did you want a report on Ralph Nader
18 from Matt Damschroder?
19 A. I don't know that I wanted it from Matt.
20 I was looking for aspects -- experts, people
21 knowledgeable, going back to, I think it was '04 when
22 the problems came up on Nader petitions.
23 Q. So why would you be interested in that
24 document?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 88 of 229 PAGEID #: 6295
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
89
1 A. Because I think one of the legal issues
2 involved in the case was whether or not -- why Ohio
3 had a law and paid circulators and why it was
4 important.
5 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder get you that
6 document?
7 A. I don't remember whether he did or did
8 not.
9 Q. If you look at page 111.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. You say "Call me on my cell and I can
12 give more specifics. Thanks. Terry." Is that a
13 message you sent to Matt Damschroder?
14 A. It sounds correct.
15 Q. Do you remember the approximate date?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Would it have been March 12th, 2014?
18 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
19 A. It could have been around that time
20 period.
21 Q. Did, in fact, Mr. Damschroder call you on
22 your cell? Do you remember?
23 A. I don't remember.
24 Q. Is it safe to say, Mr. Casey, that you
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 89 of 229 PAGEID #: 6296
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
90
1 had constant contact with Matt Damschroder during
2 this protest process?
3 A. I would characterize my contact prior to
4 the decision by the Secretary of State as pretty
5 limited, and then, after the protest, probably talked
6 to him a little more, but during the protest period
7 itself, leading up to a decision, I would say it was
8 pretty minimal.
9 Q. Why did you feel it necessary to talk to
10 Matt Damschroder so often during the protest process?
11 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
12 Answer if you can.
13 A. I thought I differentiated, prior to the
14 Secretary of State's decision, was very limited in my
15 contact, and then, after that, was probably more
16 frequent because I was trying to pull together if
17 there was some experts or people knowledgeable on
18 things like petitions and reasons why certain
19 statutory things were done.
20 Q. So why did you differentiate between the
21 two again, after the decision and before the
22 decision? I'm sorry, again, I had a hard time
23 hearing why. Why did you make that distinction?
24 A. I didn't feel it was appropriate to be
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 90 of 229 PAGEID #: 6297
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
91
1 having extensive contact with Matt while they were in
2 the process of doing whatever they were doing.
3 Q. But you did have contact with him, is
4 that correct, when the hearing was ongoing?
5 A. But that was more a sporadic thing, like
6 he sent me a clipping of a thing, just like I sent
7 him and lots of other people clippings.
8 Q. Why were you uncomfortable talking to
9 Mr. Damschroder while the hearing was ongoing?
10 A. I didn't want to appear or be trying to
11 influence their office in whatever they would do.
12 Q. Did it appear to be a conflict of
13 interest to you?
14 A. You mean for me to do that?
15 Q. Yes.
16 A. No, it wasn't a conflict because, as far
17 as I knew, Matt was not the Hearing Officer and not
18 making the decision.
19 Q. But, still, you decided to limit your
20 contact with Mr. Damschroder in that period; is that
21 correct?
22 A. Except there were some questions on the
23 mechanics of what was going to happen on Monday or
24 whether it be pushed back to Tuesday.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 91 of 229 PAGEID #: 6298
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
92
1 Q. Did you feel uncomfortable about
2 contacting Mr. Damschroder before the protest was
3 actually filed?
4 A. I don't know that I felt uncomfortable,
5 but . . .
6 Q. But you obviously did contact
7 Mr. Damschroder before the protest was filed; is that
8 correct?
9 A. I think I had some limited contact with
10 him.
11 Q. Did you think that your contact with
12 Mr. Damschroder might influence Mr. Damschroder?
13 A. I don't know that it would have
14 influenced him.
15 Q. Did you think that it might?
16 A. Did I think it would influence him?
17 Q. Did you think that it might influence
18 him?
19 A. No. Because he's -- well, first of all
20 he wasn't the person deciding; and, No. 2, Matt's
21 pretty by the books, whatever what the law calls for
22 is what he does.
23 Q. If he were the person deciding, would it
24 have been improper for you to contact him while the
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 92 of 229 PAGEID #: 6299
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
93
1 protest was under consideration?
2 A. I probably would not have if he had been
3 the person deciding.
4 Q. Would have it been improper to do that?
5 A. I'm not an expert on what's proper and
6 improper.
7 Q. Then why would you not have?
8 A. I'm sorry. What?
9 Q. Then why would you have not contacted him
10 if he were, in fact, the decision-maker?
11 A. Well, I just said I'm not an expert on
12 that kind of legal question.
13 Q. I know, but you did say, I believe, that
14 you would not have contacted him if he were the
15 decision-maker; is that correct?
16 A. That's just personal opinion.
17 Q. That's just your personal opinion?
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Did you contact Secretary Husted at any
20 point after January 1st, 2014?
21 A. I think that was asked before and my
22 answer is the same this time: No.
23 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
24 Q. I've placed in front of you, Mr. Casey,
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 93 of 229 PAGEID #: 6300
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
94
1 Exhibit 9, and it appears to be an e-mail from Jon
2 Husted, dated April 23, 2014, to Terry Casey,
3 [email protected]. Is that your e-mail address?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And it says, I think this is from
6 Secretary Husted, "thanks for sending. Jh"; is that
7 correct?
8 A. That's what it says on the paper.
9 Q. Do you remember receiving this e-mail?
10 A. Vaguely, yes.
11 Q. Then if you look a little bit below that,
12 it says on April 23rd, 2014, at 8:18 a.m., Terry
13 Casey wrote, summary from Terry Casey, and presumably
14 that was sent to Jon Husted; is that correct?
15 A. It was sent to a wide number of people.
16 Q. Was it sent to Jon Husted?
17 A. Him and a bunch of other people.
18 Q. So you did, in fact, communicate with
19 Secretary Husted at some point after January 1st,
20 2014.
21 A. My understanding of your question on
22 "communicate" was personal communications. This was
23 just more of a blast e-mail.
24 Q. Why did you send him this e-mail?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 94 of 229 PAGEID #: 6301
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
95
1 A. Because I thought it was an interesting
2 case involving Ohio and the Sixth Circuit Court of
3 Appeals; thought the AG's office attorney did a very
4 good job and felt Mr. Tigges did a very good job.
5 Q. Who else did you send it to?
6 A. I don't know exactly, but there probably,
7 I don't know, 30, 40 folks, different people, boards
8 of elections in other counties, other people involved
9 politically.
10 Q. Did you sent it to John Kasich?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Did you send it to the Kasich campaign?
13 A. Not the campaign, no.
14 Q. Did you send it to anybody in the Kasich
15 campaign?
16 A. There were probably people involved in
17 the campaign directly and indirectly that I sent it
18 to.
19 Q. Do you have a copy of the list of the
20 people you sent it to?
21 A. I probably do somewhere.
22 Q. Do you happen to remember any other names
23 on that list?
24 A. Not right off the top of my head. I'm
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 95 of 229 PAGEID #: 6302
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
96
1 pretty sure I sent it to Jo Ann Davidson, I know was
2 one person.
3 Q. At the very top it doesn't indicate that
4 anyone else received this e-mail from you; is that
5 correct?
6 A. Tell me the question again.
7 Q. At the top, where it says from Jon Husted
8 to Terry Casey, it doesn't indicate that anyone else
9 received this.
10 A. Well, my assumption, I'm just guessing
11 now, is I sent it out, as I recall, as a Bcc, blind
12 carbon copy, to a number of people, and he sent back
13 just to me because he didn't know who all I had sent
14 it to.
15 Q. Did you expect an e-mail in return from
16 Secretary Husted?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Did you send a copy of that to Matt
19 Damschroder?
20 A. Probably.
21 Q. Did you keep copies of all of those
22 e-mails that you sent to 30 or 40 people?
23 A. I didn't keep copies of each one
24 individually, but I'm sure I got a copy somewhere of
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 96 of 229 PAGEID #: 6303
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
97
1 who all it was sent to.
2 MR. BROWN: Can we just take a break for
3 a second?
4 MR. TIGGES: Sure.
5 (Recess taken.)
6 Q. (By Mr. Brown) Good afternoon, once
7 again, Mr. Casey. We're back from a short break.
8 Let us return to your e-mail to Jon Husted. You said
9 that was one e-mail of a bunch, I think you said,
10 that you sent out; is that correct?
11 A. I thought what I said was it was kind of
12 a blast e-mail out to, I don't know whether it was
13 40, 50, 60 different political, other kind of people,
14 and that was way after the Secretary of State's
15 decision because that was the time of the
16 Sixth Circuit hearing, so that was way after anything
17 that he was deciding on the original protest.
18 Q. But it was a blast, I think that's how
19 you described it. I said "bunch," but you said
20 "blast."
21 A. Or mass e-mail, probably. It wasn't what
22 I call personal communications.
23 Q. But when you say "mass e-mail" you
24 mean -- well, my question is: If it's a mass e-mail,
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 97 of 229 PAGEID #: 6304
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
98
1 do you have a list --
2 A. No.
3 Q. -- of the names? No. You simply enter
4 them one by one; is that correct?
5 A. Well, I just think of different people
6 that might be interested in the case. And, again, I
7 thought the lawyers did a very good job and you don't
8 often have cases before the Sixth Circuit.
9 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
10 Q. I've placed in front of you, Mr. Casey,
11 Exhibit 10, which appears to be an e-mail from Casey
12 Terry, [email protected]. Is that your e-mail address?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. To, at the very bottom, it says Casey
15 Terry, [email protected]. That's also your e-mail
16 address?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Could you look at the text of that e-mail
19 and confirm that you sent that?
20 A. It looks like something I sent out. I
21 haven't read through the complete text of it.
22 Q. Go ahead and take a minute just if you
23 would.
24 A. Okay.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 98 of 229 PAGEID #: 6305
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
99
1 Yes.
2 Q. Is that something you had sent out?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Who did you send that to?
5 A. It was a similar type of mass or large
6 scale, different people in Ohio that I know, either
7 elections or political things.
8 Q. But if you look at the very top it
9 doesn't indicate that you sent it to anyone, does it?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. Why is it from you to you?
12 A. If you're doing a larger-scale mailing
13 thing, sometimes I'll send it to myself and then do
14 all the people getting it being blind carbon copied.
15 Q. So they're all blind copies, but you
16 still enter them all individually.
17 A. Yes. Well -- or, I might have, I forget
18 the timing of this compared to the other one, I might
19 have copied the people I sent on the Sixth Circuit
20 thing, and then sent it out to the same people and
21 maybe added some names or deleted some names. So I
22 don't remember the exact mechanics.
23 Q. But there's no list that you can just
24 type in there?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 99 of 229 PAGEID #: 6306
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
100
1 A. No.
2 Q. Sending it to yourself doesn't send it
3 automatically to a list of people?
4 A. No.
5 Q. Do you know Bradley Smith?
6 A. I know the name.
7 Q. Do you know of Bradley Smith? Do you
8 know what his position is?
9 A. I know those mechanics. I don't know him
10 personally.
11 Q. Sure. What is Bradley Smith's position
12 to your knowledge? What is his occupation? What
13 does he do?
14 A. You mean currently or past?
15 Q. Currently.
16 A. As I understand now, he's, I think, a
17 named professor at Capital's law school, I think he's
18 also doing some visiting professorship at West
19 Virginia University, I think he's on the board of the
20 1851 Society group, something like that.
21 Q. How about his past occupations, do you
22 know of any of his post occupations?
23 A. Probably the one I'm most familiar with,
24 he's a former Chairman of the Federal Elections
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 100 of 229 PAGEID #: 6307
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
101
1 Commission.
2 Q. Do you also know he was the Hearing
3 Officer in this protest case?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And I believe you testified earlier that
6 you did receive a copy of his final recommendation
7 and report; is that correct?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And who did that recommendation and
10 report come out in favor of?
11 A. It came out in favor of Mr. Felsoci, and
12 I think it also, I forget the details, related to
13 against Linnabary, I forget the details on the AG's
14 side.
15 Q. Did you know that Professor Smith
16 actually had ruled in favor of the candidates before
17 he ruled in favor of the protestors?
18 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
19 A. I didn't know that until just a couple
20 weeks ago. Mr. Zeiger told me that.
21 Q. But you do understand that now?
22 A. Well, I don't know what happened, I just
23 know that there was some communications at some time
24 and then he decided what he decided and did that on
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 101 of 229 PAGEID #: 6308
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
102
1 Friday or whatever.
2 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
3 Q. Mr. Casey, I've placed in front of you
4 Exhibit No. 11, which is an e-mail from Bradley Smith
5 to Jack Christopher, dated March 6th, 2014. Subject
6 line it says, "Final transcript."
7 A. You talking about at the top?
8 Q. Yes. The very top.
9 A. Should I read the other, because it looks
10 like there's two or three other.
11 Q. Sure. Go right ahead, please.
12 A. So these are kind -- these e-mails are
13 kind of backwards, right?
14 Q. I believe you're exactly right. It looks
15 like the last e-mail is first, yes.
16 A. Okay.
17 Q. Have you ever seen this e-mail --
18 A. No.
19 Q. -- train before?
20 A. No.
21 Q. If you look at the very top, it says
22 "Jack, Done. I know this will anger and disappoint a
23 bunch of people but I am recommending that the
24 protests be dismissed." Do you see that language?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 102 of 229 PAGEID #: 6309
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
103
1 A. I see what's in front of me.
2 Q. And at the very end it says "Brad."
3 Are you aware of anyone who would have
4 been angered and disappointed by a ruling in favor of
5 dismissal of the protests?
6 A. I don't know anything about this.
7 Q. Would the Republicans have been angered
8 and disappointed if Professor Smith had ruled in
9 favor of the candidates?
10 A. I don't know. You're asking me
11 something, to speculate on what people think.
12 Q. Would you have been angered and
13 disappointed if Professor Smith ruled in favor of the
14 candidates?
15 A. I don't know. It would depend on what he
16 would say were the legal reasons.
17 Q. What if he simply dismissed the protest
18 and said that the candidates should never have been
19 challenged? Would that have made you angry? Would
20 that have disappointed you?
21 A. You're asking me a hypothetical question.
22 Q. Yes, I am.
23 A. I'm not real good on testifying on
24 hypothetical questions.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 103 of 229 PAGEID #: 6310
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
104
1 Q. It is a hypothetical, yes. Would it have
2 made you happy?
3 A. You're continuing to ask me
4 hypotheticals. I don't do hypotheticals in this
5 setting.
6 Q. You never answer any hypotheticals?
7 A. Not in this kind of legal setting.
8 Q. In any setting?
9 A. If we're in a bar casually, maybe,
10 but . . .
11 Q. Did you know that the challenge against
12 Oscar Hatchett, the circulator, was that he did not
13 properly fill out the employer statement? Did you
14 know that was the challenge to Oscar Hatchett?
15 A. You mean did I know at the hearing or
16 prior to the hearing?
17 Q. At the hearing.
18 A. Well, I was aware because there was a lot
19 of discussion of that question.
20 Q. And you're aware that the principle
21 question was whether an independent contractor had to
22 fill out the employer statement box? Are you aware
23 of that?
24 MR. TIGGES: Object to the
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 104 of 229 PAGEID #: 6311
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
105
1 characterization.
2 Go ahead and answer if you can.
3 A. I mean, I heard those questions raised
4 and discussed.
5 Q. And the question was whether an employee
6 had to fill out the employer statement, but not an
7 independent contractor. Did you understand that at
8 the time?
9 A. I understand that was part of the
10 question in dispute on independent contractor versus
11 employee.
12 Q. Did you have any communications with Brad
13 Smith the week of March 3rd to March 7th, 2014, while
14 this protest was being considered?
15 A. No.
16 Q. Did you know anyone who did have
17 conversations with Brad Smith, the week of March 3rd
18 to March 7th, when this protest was being considered?
19 A. Not that I'm aware of.
20 Q. Did Mr. Damschroder, to your knowledge,
21 have any communications with Brad Smith, the week of
22 March 3rd to March 7th, 2014?
23 A. I don't know.
24 Q. Did anyone in the Ohio Republican Party,
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 105 of 229 PAGEID #: 6312
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
106
1 to your knowledge, have any communications with Brad
2 Smith, the week of March 3rd to March 7th, 2014?
3 A. Not to my knowledge.
4 Q. Did anyone in the Franklin County
5 Republican Party have any communications with Brad
6 Smith, the week of March 3rd to March 7th, 2014?
7 A. I have no clue.
8 Q. Did anyone in the Kasich campaign have
9 any communications with Brad Smith, the week of
10 March 3rd to March 7th?
11 A. I have no idea whatsoever.
12 Q. Did anyone in the DeWine campaign have
13 any communications with Brad Smith, the week of
14 March 3rd to March 7th?
15 A. I have no knowledge whatsoever.
16 (EXHIBIT MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.)
17 Q. Mr. Casey, placed in front of you is
18 Deposition Exhibit 12. At the very top you'll see
19 it's an e-mail from Brad Smith to Jack Christopher,
20 dated March 7th, 2014. If you read down a little bit
21 you see that Professor Smith is responding to an
22 e-mail from Jack Christopher, and Jack Christopher's
23 e-mail is March 7, 2014, 3:30 a.m. Do you see that
24 language below Jack Christopher's response?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 106 of 229 PAGEID #: 6313
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
107
1 A. There's, what, 8 or 9 or 10 paragraphs?
2 Q. Yeah. Exactly. Do you see that
3 language?
4 A. Yes, I see it.
5 Q. Have you ever seen that language before?
6 A. No.
7 Q. Did you, by chance, see any of that
8 language in the final recommendation and report
9 issued by Brad Smith?
10 A. I don't know. I haven't studied this or
11 I'd have to go back and reread his decision. So I
12 don't know exactly what he's saying and how it
13 translated.
14 Q. Did anyone ever tell you, before
15 March 7th, 2014, that Brad Smith had ruled in favor
16 of the candidates in this protest?
17 A. You said March 7th?
18 Q. Before March 7th.
19 A. Is that a Friday?
20 Q. That would be a Friday, yes, sir.
21 A. No.
22 Q. When did you learn that Brad Smith had
23 initially ruled in favor of the candidates?
24 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 107 of 229 PAGEID #: 6314
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
108
1 Answer if you can.
2 A. As recalled, my memory refreshed from the
3 text messages, it must have been around that 4:44 in
4 the afternoon or --
5 MR. TIGGES: You're not listening to the
6 question.
7 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry.
8 MR. TIGGES: Read the question back,
9 Carolyn.
10 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry.
11 (Record read.)
12 A. Oh, initially.
13 Q. Yes, sir, initially.
14 A. That would have been a couple weeks ago.
15 Mr. Zeiger mentioned something about it.
16 Q. But you did not know until just a couple
17 of weeks ago.
18 A. No. You're talking initially in some
19 draft versus a final.
20 Q. Yes, sir.
21 A. Okay. Yeah.
22 Q. Were you aware that, in 2012,
23 Gary Johnson was running for president on the
24 Libertarian Party ticket?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 108 of 229 PAGEID #: 6315
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
109
1 A. I vaguely remember. He's the former New
2 Mexico Governor, right?
3 Q. Yes, sir, I think that's correct.
4 A. I remember vaguely that he was
5 considering running for Governor, I think
6 Libertarians were having some conference he was going
7 to be in Columbus for, but I just kind of remember
8 that in general.
9 Q. Do you remember if he actually appeared
10 on the Ohio ballot, in 2012, as the Libertarian Party
11 candidate?
12 A. Do not recall.
13 Q. Do you know anything about a protest that
14 was lodged against Gary Johnson in 2012, in an effort
15 to remove him from the Ohio ballot as the Libertarian
16 Party candidate for President?
17 A. Know nothing about that.
18 Q. Do you know Cynthia Rees? R-e-e-s.
19 A. I don't think so. I'm trying to think if
20 there's a Cynthia, I think it began with -- but I
21 can't remember if it's Rees or Reesha or somebody,
22 who ran for Congress one time, but I think that's a
23 different spelling or name than this.
24 Q. Yes. I believe this one is R-e-e-s.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 109 of 229 PAGEID #: 6316
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
110
1 Cynthia Rees.
2 A. Doesn't ring a bell at all.
3 Q. I believe you testified earlier that you
4 presently know of John Musca; is that correct?
5 A. I know the name.
6 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Mischaracterizes
7 his testimony.
8 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. What was
9 that?
10 MR. TIGGES: Mischaracterizes your
11 testimony.
12 Q. I don't mean to mischaracterize your
13 testimony. Go ahead, Mr. Casey.
14 A. Ask me, again, the question.
15 Q. I'm asking again about John Musca. I'm
16 just trying to avoid having to re-cover the same
17 ground. Do you know John Musca. Do you know the
18 name John Musca?
19 A. I've heard the name, and I think I maybe
20 talked to him once or twice on the phone, but I don't
21 know him.
22 Q. Do you happen to remember when you did
23 speak to him on the telephone?
24 A. Not exactly. Sometime in February or
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 110 of 229 PAGEID #: 6317
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
111
1 March.
2 Q. Do you happen to remember how you ever
3 initially met?
4 A. How I met him?
5 Q. Well, I met either by phone or by person,
6 I think you said you did talk to him a couple times
7 on the telephone?
8 A. Right. But, to my knowledge, I've never
9 met the guy.
10 Q. Sure. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
11 A. But I -- I don't know whether, from
12 Mr. Felsoci, got his name and phone number, I'm not
13 sure, but I know he was a friend of Mr. Felsoci.
14 Q. So did you get Mr. Musca's name from
15 Mr. Felsoci; is that correct?
16 A. I don't remember exactly where I got the
17 phone number.
18 Q. Did you get Mr. Felsoci's name from
19 Mr. Musca?
20 A. I don't think so.
21 Q. Did Mr. Felsoci ever call you?
22 A. I can't -- he might have called me once
23 or twice, I can't really recall.
24 Q. Do you know when that might have been?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 111 of 229 PAGEID #: 6318
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
112
1 A. Sometime in February or March, roughly,
2 as I recall.
3 Q. Would that have been after Mr. Felsoci
4 filed his protest against Charlie Earl?
5 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
6 A. Ask me again the question. I just want
7 to make sure I'm hearing you correctly.
8 Q. Your telephone conversations with
9 Mr. Felsoci, would they have been after Mr. Felsoci
10 filed the protest against Charlie Earl?
11 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
12 A. They probably -- I know I talked to him
13 either once or twice before and there might have been
14 once or twice after the filing, but I don't remember
15 the exact dates and times.
16 Q. Did you ever physically drive up to see
17 Mr. Felsoci?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Did Mr. Felsoci ever physically drive
20 down here to see you?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did you ever give Mr. Felsoci money?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Did Mr. Felsoci ever give you any money?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 112 of 229 PAGEID #: 6319
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
113
1 A. No.
2 Q. Did Mr. Musca pay you anything?
3 A. No.
4 Q. So is it safe to say that Mr. Felsoci and
5 Mr. Musca are not interested parties who might supply
6 you funds; is that correct?
7 A. I'm not sure of the context of
8 "interested parties."
9 Q. I'm sorry. You're right. Let me back up
10 a second.
11 I believe you testified earlier that your
12 plan is to contact interested parties or interested
13 persons in order to solicit funds to pay your
14 lawyers; is that not correct?
15 A. I think I said something like that.
16 Q. So my question, then, is whether
17 Mr. Felsoci and Mr. Musca might be interested parties
18 whom you would solicit?
19 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
20 A. I doubt it, because, to my knowledge, I
21 don't think they have that degree of interest.
22 Q. What kind of interest do they have to
23 have before you can solicit them?
24 A. Probably folks that have the ability to
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 113 of 229 PAGEID #: 6320
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
114
1 make contributions. My sense is they're not in that
2 category.
3 Q. When you say "contributions," do you mean
4 money?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. How much money would one have to have
7 before you consider them a potential interested
8 party?
9 A. I don't know. I haven't thought that
10 equation through that much.
11 Q. But I believe Mr. Felsoci is a carpenter,
12 so he obviously doesn't have enough money; is that
13 correct?
14 A. Unless somebody tells me differently, I'd
15 probably focus on other people.
16 Q. How much money are you looking for?
17 A. I don't know.
18 Q. You've received at least two invoices
19 from your lawyers. Are you telling me you have no
20 idea what's in those invoices?
21 A. No. I remember there's -- I forget what
22 the first one was, but there's a certain amount of
23 money there, but my sense is, as you summarized,
24 Mr. Felsoci's background and financial means is
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 114 of 229 PAGEID #: 6321
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
115
1 probably not a high prospect for contributions.
2 Q. Do those two invoices together amount to
3 more than six figures in dollars?
4 A. They probably, by now, are in six
5 figures.
6 Q. Would it be a quarter-million dollars?
7 Do you know?
8 A. I don't know the exact number.
9 Q. But six figures, certainly, that's what I
10 believe you said.
11 A. Probably.
12 Q. How many individuals do you think you're
13 going to have to approach to raise the six figures
14 needed to pay Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges?
15 A. Haven't got to that stage yet.
16 Q. Would it be a hundred people?
17 A. I haven't really thought through and
18 focused on that yet.
19 Q. Would you approach individuals or
20 corporations --
21 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
22 Q. -- or both?
23 A. I'd probably need to do some more
24 research on legally what's the best way in terms of
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 115 of 229 PAGEID #: 6322
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
116
1 whether you do it with a separate committee, whether
2 you do individuals, probably corporations would not
3 be permitted, but I haven't done that legal research
4 fully yet.
5 Q. Would you approach, do you think,
6 political parties?
7 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
8 A. I don't know. I haven't thought through
9 the process.
10 Q. Would it be legal for a political party
11 to give you money to pay your lawyers in this case?
12 A. I haven't done that legal research yet.
13 Q. Would you approach maybe the Wolfe
14 brothers?
15 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
16 A. I don't know who the Wolfe brothers are.
17 Q. Would you approach Les Wexner?
18 A. I normally don't hang out with him and he
19 doesn't call me.
20 Q. Who do you hang out with?
21 A. Which night?
22 Q. Well, I don't know. All the time. Who
23 do you --
24 MR. TIGGES: That's not relevant to
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 116 of 229 PAGEID #: 6323
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
117
1 anything. Let's move on to something relevant to
2 this case.
3 MR. BROWN: No, I'm trying -- Steve, this
4 is very relevant. I'm trying to find out who he's
5 going to solicit to pay your fee.
6 MR. TIGGES: He's already said repeatedly
7 he doesn't know yet. He hasn't thought it through
8 that far.
9 MR. BROWN: And I'm going to explore that
10 issue.
11 MR. TIGGES: Fine. What does that have
12 to do with who he hangs out with?
13 A. Do you want to know who I had dinner with
14 last night?
15 Q. Sure.
16 A. Janet and Danny Forrest at the Pig Iron
17 Barbecue on North High Street, above Graceland
18 Shopping Center. They've traveled with us on trips
19 and getting ready to head to D.C. and the Ohio State
20 game on Saturday.
21 Q. Would you potentially solicit them for
22 the money to pay your lawyers?
23 A. Probably not.
24 Q. Why not?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 117 of 229 PAGEID #: 6324
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
118
1 A. They're both retired and probably not as
2 interested in this kind of thing politically.
3 Q. And they're friends of yours, right?
4 A. Yeah.
5 Q. So chances are you don't want to alienate
6 your friends by asking them for money; is that
7 correct?
8 A. That wouldn't be the reason.
9 Q. Would you ask your friends for the money?
10 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
11 A. I'd probably ask, first, people that I
12 know.
13 Q. I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. You said?
14 A. I would first probably ask people that I
15 know.
16 Q. Of course. Of course.
17 A. Yeah.
18 Q. But people you know rather than
19 friends; is that correct?
20 A. Well, sometimes you know friends and I
21 know a lot of people.
22 Q. Do you know anyone in the Kasich campaign
23 who might be interested in paying your lawyers'
24 attorneys' fees?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 118 of 229 PAGEID #: 6325
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
119
1 A. I'm sorry. Ask me the question again.
2 Q. Do you know anyone in the Kasich
3 campaign, I'm sorry, my pronouncing of "Kasich" may
4 not be that good.
5 A. I mean, I know people directly and
6 indirectly, but I haven't gotten to that stage yet.
7 Q. Who do you know directly in the Kasich
8 campaign?
9 A. I mean lots of people.
10 Q. Can you name one?
11 A. Connie, I'm trying to remember her last
12 name, who is the Press Secretary.
13 Q. Do you know the Kasich campaign manager?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Who is that?
16 A. Matt Carle.
17 Q. How do you spell that last name?
18 A. C-a-r-l-e.
19 Q. Would he be someone that you might
20 approach about supplying money to your lawyers?
21 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
22 A. He might be, and a thousand other people
23 might be on the list. As I said, I haven't got to
24 that stage yet.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 119 of 229 PAGEID #: 6326
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
120
1 Q. Would it be lawful for anyone in the
2 Kasich campaign to give you money to pay your
3 lawyers?
4 MR. TIGGES: Objection. No foundation.
5 A. I don't know the answer to that legal
6 question.
7 Q. I think you testified earlier, Mr. Casey,
8 that you are an Ohio employee; is that correct?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And, again, who are you working for in
11 the State of Ohio?
12 A. You mean which agency am I with?
13 Q. Yes. I believe it was a board.
14 A. State Board of Personnel Review.
15 Q. Do you operate under an ethical code as
16 being a member of that board? Do you know?
17 A. We have briefings every year from the
18 Ohio Ethics Commission.
19 Q. Is it lawful, do you know, for a member
20 of that board to solicit political contributions?
21 A. There's two other people I'm on the board
22 with, Dwight Tillery, who's a former mayor of
23 Cincinnati and I know he's involved politically, a
24 Democrat by the way. Richard Lumpe, who's an
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 120 of 229 PAGEID #: 6327
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
121
1 independent, is active in the beer and wine
2 wholesalers, and I know he has fundraising events and
3 fundraising activities and contributions. So I know
4 they're both active politically. So, to my
5 knowledge, I wouldn't have prohibitions from being
6 politically active.
7 Q. Would it be legal for you to solicit
8 people who work for the State of Ohio to pay your
9 lawyers?
10 A. I haven't researched that, but I would
11 check that issue out.
12 Q. I'm just trying to narrow down the
13 potential universe of interested persons. Would they
14 have to be Ohio citizens? Do you know?
15 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
16 A. I don't know. I haven't researched it
17 legally fully.
18 Q. When are you going to begin soliciting
19 money to pay your lawyers?
20 A. Part of it, we're trying to figure out,
21 whenever this is over legally, and have a better idea
22 of what needs to be raised.
23 Q. That's part of it?
24 A. Yes.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 121 of 229 PAGEID #: 6328
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
122
1 Q. What's the other part?
2 A. I think that's the main part.
3 Q. Is there a concern with you that it would
4 be bad press to disclose who is paying your lawyers?
5 Is that a concern of yours?
6 A. That isn't something that's been
7 primarily on my mind.
8 Q. So you're not worried about the press at
9 all in this case?
10 A. I didn't say that.
11 Q. Are you worried about the press?
12 A. On which issue?
13 Q. Just on this case. The press learning
14 that you and other Republicans are financing the
15 Felsoci protest; is that a concern of yours?
16 A. I haven't really thought through those
17 questions before.
18 Q. Are you going to solicit any
19 non-Republicans to pay your lawyers' fees?
20 A. Probably would.
21 Q. Have your lawyers expressed any concerns
22 about not being paid?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Then why did they send you an e-mail
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 122 of 229 PAGEID #: 6329
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
123
1 asking for payment as soon as possible?
2 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Mischaracterizes
3 the document. Why don't you pull it out.
4 MR. BROWN: Good idea, Steve.
5 MR. TIGGES: That's not what it said.
6 Q. If you look at, I think it's Exhibit 1.
7 A. Yeah, uh-huh.
8 Q. I believe that's the document.
9 A. Uh-huh.
10 Q. And I believe it says "I would appreciate
11 payment at your earliest opportunity"; is that
12 correct?
13 A. Uh-huh. Yeah.
14 Q. Doesn't that indicate that your lawyers
15 want to get paid early?
16 A. I'm not sure. Sometimes you get invoices
17 that say due immediately, due 30 days, sometimes
18 things are typed on there perfunctory sometimes.
19 Q. What's the hourly rate your lawyers are
20 charging you?
21 A. I think they're different rates depending
22 upon the lawyers.
23 Q. How about Mr. Zeiger?
24 A. You mean how much is his rate?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 123 of 229 PAGEID #: 6330
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
124
1 Q. How much is his hourly rate that he's
2 charging you in this case?
3 A. I don't remember the exact number.
4 Q. Is it more than $500 an hour?
5 A. It's somewhere in that ballpark, but
6 whether it's four-something or five-something, I
7 don't remember the exact number.
8 Q. How about Mr. Tigges?
9 A. I don't remember his exact number.
10 Q. Is it less than Mr. Zeiger's?
11 A. I don't recall that.
12 Q. Is it about $450 an hour?
13 A. I don't know.
14 Q. Is it $1 an hour?
15 A. I don't think so.
16 Q. So it's higher than that obviously.
17 A. Right.
18 Q. I'm just trying to get -- I think we can
19 get close, can't we? $200 an hour.
20 A. I don't remember the exact numbers.
21 Q. Did Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges indicate
22 how many hours they've already put into this case?
23 A. They haven't -- they don't give me
24 day-to-day updates or weekly updates.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 124 of 229 PAGEID #: 6331
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
125
1 Q. But they do send you invoices.
2 A. They've given me a couple of them.
3 Q. Do the invoices state the number of hours
4 they've worked?
5 A. I'm trying to -- I think there was an
6 invoice that had a total number and I'm trying to
7 think whether I saw something that had more details,
8 but I don't recall the exact.
9 MR. BROWN: Just one second.
10 Q. Do you have a written agreement, contract
11 with your lawyers in this case?
12 A. No.
13 Q. So it's all oral, the agreement that you
14 have with your lawyers?
15 A. I don't know whether there's any other
16 option, but it's not written.
17 Q. Why not? Why do you not have a written
18 agreement with your lawyers?
19 A. I don't know.
20 Q. You said you have hired this law firm in
21 the past. Did you ever have a written agreement with
22 them before?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Have you ever hired any other lawyers?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 125 of 229 PAGEID #: 6332
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
126
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Did you ever have a written agreement
3 with them?
4 A. I think on having some estate, wills,
5 that kind of thing done, there was some, I'm trying
6 to remember the term, scope of services. There was
7 some kind of general thing, but -- and we discussed a
8 dollar amount, but I don't remember the exact
9 details.
10 Q. So does that mean you did have a written
11 agreement with these past lawyers?
12 A. I don't know whether you would call it an
13 "agreement." It might have been scope of engagement
14 or term of engagement, some sort of thing like that,
15 but I don't think it was a --
16 Q. Engagement letter or a letter agreement?
17 A. I forget the exact terminology.
18 Q. Is it your understanding that written
19 contracts with lawyers are the norm?
20 A. I don't know what's norm and what's not
21 the norm.
22 Q. But I think you said you have had lawyers
23 in the past. You're obviously a seasoned politician.
24 You must have had dealings with lawyers on a regular
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 126 of 229 PAGEID #: 6333
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
127
1 basis.
2 MR. TIGGES: Mr. Brown, your expression
3 of disbelief is inappropriate.
4 Go ahead and answer the question.
5 MR. BROWN: I move to strike Mr. Tigges'
6 comments. I'm not expressing any disbelief or
7 anything else to the witness. I'm not making facial
8 expressions at anyone.
9 MR. TIGGES: Go ahead and answer the
10 question.
11 Q. Please answer the question, Mr. Casey.
12 A. Could you repeat so I understand the
13 question?
14 Q. Well, you're obviously a seasoned
15 political consultant, who has done a good deal of
16 work in the realm of politics, and I think usually
17 that carries with it some work with lawyers, does it
18 not?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. So you are very familiar with the
21 practices of lawyers.
22 A. With some lawyers I've dealt with.
23 Q. And given your experience with lawyers,
24 isn't it the norm that there is a written agreement?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 127 of 229 PAGEID #: 6334
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
128
1 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Asked and
2 answered.
3 A. My recollection, other than the personal
4 law thing that I mentioned recently, most lawyers
5 I've dealt with over time have not had a written
6 "terms of engagement" type of situation.
7 Q. Was it your decision not to have a
8 written contract influenced by your aversion to
9 publicity?
10 A. I'm sorry. There's about two or three
11 parts in the question. Can you break it down?
12 Q. Did you worry that your identity might be
13 disclosed somehow if you had a written agreement?
14 A. Well, it's partly about written agreement
15 and partly about publicity. So why don't we break it
16 into two different parts.
17 Q. Was it your concern that a written
18 agreement would lead to your identity being released?
19 MR. TIGGES: Objection. He didn't
20 identify any concern. You're mischaracterizing what
21 he said.
22 A. I'm still confused. There's two parts to
23 your question and you're asking for a conclusion and
24 there's two variables in there.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 128 of 229 PAGEID #: 6335
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
129
1 Q. I think there's only one part to the
2 question.
3 MR. BROWN: Can you read that back,
4 Carolyn?
5 (Record read.)
6 A. Okay. You were asking about written
7 agreement and, as I indicated, in my general
8 experience politically, in most cases, other than
9 legal things, have not had a written agreement. So
10 that's one part of it.
11 And then I think the second part of it
12 was about publicity and my sense is that was not a
13 related -- or, the prime focus was on looking legally
14 at what was involved primarily with the Democrat
15 Party and what they were doing, Oscar Hatchett, and
16 also those kind of things. So that was the prime
17 interest and focus that I had.
18 Q. So you were not concerned at all about
19 the release of your identity; is that correct?
20 A. It wasn't the prime focus that I was
21 concerned about.
22 Q. Was it a focus?
23 A. I don't know. "A focus" could mean a
24 zillion things.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 129 of 229 PAGEID #: 6336
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
130
1 Q. But you did go to great lengths to keep
2 your identity secret, did you not?
3 A. I never said that that was true.
4 Q. But you did go to great lengths, did you
5 not?
6 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Asked and
7 answered.
8 A. I don't know that I did.
9 Q. Your lawyers obviously did, did they not?
10 A. I don't know.
11 Q. Are you aware that we had to get a court
12 order to obtain your identity?
13 A. Not really. I mean, I indicated there
14 was some things going on legally, but . . .
15 Q. So you're not aware that a court order
16 was needed to obtain your identity?
17 A. I was not into that much detail on all
18 the battles at the court level or Magistrate Judge
19 Kemp, so I wasn't there for what he was doing on all
20 the details of what was going on there.
21 Q. So is it your testimony that you had no
22 idea that Judge Kemp ordered the disclosure of your
23 identity?
24 A. I think I was aware after the fact that
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 130 of 229 PAGEID #: 6337
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
131
1 those were part of the legal machinations.
2 Q. Was your decision not to pay your lawyers
3 a result of a fear that payment would disclose your
4 financial sources?
5 A. Repeat that question again because I'm
6 trying to --
7 Q. Was your failure to pay your lawyers
8 motivated by your fear of having your financial
9 sources disclosed?
10 A. I'm not sure --
11 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
12 A. -- if that was the -- the question's
13 confusing.
14 Q. Well, if you paid your lawyers, it would
15 have come out of your bank account, for example; is
16 that correct?
17 A. Maybe; maybe not.
18 Q. And if it came out of your bank account,
19 that would be disclosed, if you had paid your
20 lawyers.
21 A. I don't know.
22 Q. And if you got the money from the Ohio
23 Republican Party then that would have been disclosed;
24 is that correct?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 131 of 229 PAGEID #: 6338
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
132
1 A. I don't know. I don't know how . . .
2 Q. Well, if you paid them, I would ask and
3 you would have to tell me.
4 A. I don't know.
5 Q. Is the reason you did not pay them
6 because you were afraid of my questions?
7 A. I didn't know what questions you were
8 going to ask.
9 (Laughter.)
10 MR. TIGGES: That's hilarious.
11 MR. BROWN: Steve, we don't need any
12 commentary, please.
13 Q. Was that your concern?
14 A. My concern about what?
15 Q. Is that one of the reasons you did not
16 pay your lawyers, that you were concerned that the
17 payment would be disclosed?
18 A. You're asking me hypotheticals on
19 mindsets. Your question is confusing me.
20 Q. I'm not asking any hypotheticals. I'm
21 asking if your concern -- it's not hypothetical, this
22 is your concern -- whether your concern was that
23 paying your lawyers would lead to the disclosure of
24 the actual payments.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 132 of 229 PAGEID #: 6339
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
133
1 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
2 A. It really wasn't a concern and an issue
3 that I was thinking much about.
4 Q. Were your lawyers thinking about that?
5 A. I can't answer for them.
6 Q. What approximate date have your lawyers
7 given you for making some payment?
8 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
9 A. We haven't really got into discussing
10 that.
11 Q. Are your lawyers -- strike that.
12 MR. BROWN: Just give me one minute.
13 (Off the record.)
14 (Recess taken.)
15 Q. (By Mr. Brown) Good afternoon, again,
16 Mr. Casey. We're back after a short break.
17 Did you stopped consulting for John
18 Kasich because you were appointed to a position on
19 the, I'm sorry, the board's name?
20 A. State Board of Personnel Review.
21 Q. Is that why you stop consulting with John
22 Kasich?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Is there a prohibition on your consulting
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 133 of 229 PAGEID #: 6340
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
134
1 with John Kasich because you are on a state board?
2 A. I don't think there's a prohibition or a
3 limitation. The main reason was I was involved in --
4 August, September, and October with a special project
5 which was debate preparation, I was doing research
6 on, and played Ted Strickland on the debate prep
7 against John Kasich. So, obviously, after the
8 election there was no need for more debate prep.
9 Q. And that's when your consultation ended
10 because --
11 A. Yes. Right.
12 Q. Have you considered consulting with
13 Kasich again for this election cycle?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Has Kasich asked you to?
16 A. No. Well, let me -- I think Matt Carle
17 has asked me to -- he was not the campaign manager
18 then, but he's asked me to, if there's debates, to be
19 Ed FitzGerald and prepare for such debate and doing
20 such dress rehearsals.
21 Q. Are you frequently described in the press
22 as being an advisor to John Kasich?
23 A. No. When I do TV shows it usually says
24 Republican analyst or Republican strategist or
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 134 of 229 PAGEID #: 6341
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
135
1 something like that.
2 Q. Have you ever been described as an
3 advisor to John Kasich recently?
4 A. Not recently.
5 Q. Not after January 1st, 2014?
6 A. No. Uh-uh.
7 Q. Are you like me, do you cut out all the
8 clippings that mention your name?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Do you know Katie Eagan?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Who is Katie Eagan?
13 A. I think she's the Political Director of
14 the Ohio Republican Party.
15 Q. And how do you know her?
16 A. Oh, I think I met her at the state party
17 a couple, three years ago, we did, I think, a
18 project, some initial research on some of the
19 potential candidates in the latter part of 2012, who
20 might be running in '14.
21 Q. Have you spoken or communicated with
22 Katie Eagan in any way since January 1st, 2014?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. When was the last time you spoke or
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 135 of 229 PAGEID #: 6342
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
136
1 communicated with Ms. Eagan?
2 A. It's probably been -- I think it was
3 probably on August 1st.
4 Q. Why did you speak with Ms. Eagan on
5 August 1st?
6 A. That day, it was a Friday, I was driving
7 to Charlottesville, Virginia, to see our grandsons,
8 and there was the breaking news on FitzGerald and his
9 4:30 in the morning situation. She was going to be
10 on the Channel 10 show that afternoon, right around
11 the time FitzGerald was having a news conference.
12 And she was basically filling me, since I
13 was on the road driving, on what had happened that
14 afternoon, and how Channel 10 was moving the taping
15 of the show from the normal time of 3:30 in the
16 afternoon to 7:00 p.m. in evening. So she was kind
17 of giving me background on what had happened since I
18 was on the road, out of town.
19 Q. Do you speak with her often?
20 A. Not that often.
21 Q. Did you speak with her back in February
22 of 2014 at any time?
23 A. I might -- I'm trying to remember,
24 because she started doing some of the Channel 10
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 136 of 229 PAGEID #: 6343
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
137
1 shows and -- but she also was pregnant and getting
2 ready to do maternity leave. So I might have chatted
3 about the general TV shows and topics or questions or
4 issues, but that would be about it.
5 Q. Did you ever talk to her about Charlie
6 Earl's part-petitions?
7 A. I don't recall, no.
8 Q. Did you ask her to obtain Charlie Earl's
9 part-petitions from the Secretary of State?
10 A. I don't think I did. And, again, I can't
11 recall whether she was working at that stage, because
12 I don't remember the exact timing on her pregnancy
13 and the birth of the baby.
14 Q. Do you know if she did, in fact, obtain
15 Charlie Earl's part-petitions from the Secretary of
16 State?
17 A. I don't know.
18 Q. Do you know Chris Schrimpf? And I better
19 spell that one. S-c-h-r-i-m-p-f.
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Who is Mr. Schrimpf?
22 A. I don't know whether he's got the title
23 of Press Secretary or Communications Director with
24 the state party.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 137 of 229 PAGEID #: 6344
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
138
1 Q. And that would be the Ohio Republican
2 Party; is that correct?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. When was the last time you spoke with
5 Mr. Schrimpf?
6 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
7 A. It might have been on or around that
8 August 1st FitzGerald stuff or it might have been the
9 week or two after that, I forget exactly. But he's a
10 person, when I've got topics on the TV show that I'll
11 keep him and there's a bunch of other people in
12 informed of here's topics we're talking about, and
13 sometimes I'm looking for information because
14 sometimes it might be a subject like Common Core that
15 I'm not as familiar with, so sometimes he'll be
16 somebody that I'll try and look for background or
17 information on.
18 Q. Did you speak or communicate in any way
19 with Mr. Schrimpf in February of 2014?
20 A. I'm sure I talked to him sometime in that
21 period, but I don't remember topics and discussions.
22 Q. Did you talk to him about Charlie Earl's
23 part-petitions?
24 A. I'm sure -- well, I know I didn't talk to
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 138 of 229 PAGEID #: 6345
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
139
1 him before February 10th, because I was out of the
2 country. And I'm sure, either by e-mail or phone, I
3 had some conversations because, as I mentioned to
4 you, after coming back on Monday, February 10th, I
5 had three different TV shows that weekend, I think
6 Channel 4 was taped on Thursday evening, and I think
7 Thursday morning, Channel 10 -- or, excuse me, Friday
8 morning, Channel 10; Friday afternoon was WOSU TV.
9 So I had three different shows that I was doing. So
10 I think the topic, I don't know whether the topic
11 came up then or later in February.
12 Q. Did you ever instruct Mr. Schrimpf,
13 that's a hard name to say, to obtain Charlie Earl's
14 part-petitions from the Secretary of State?
15 A. I don't remember talking to him about
16 that, I don't.
17 Q. Do you know Scott Guthrie?
18 A. Scott Guthrie?
19 Q. Yes.
20 A. I think he works for Josh Mandel, the
21 State Treasurer.
22 Q. Is he also with the Ohio Republican Party
23 in any capacity, do you know?
24 A. I've read things in the paper that say
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 139 of 229 PAGEID #: 6346
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
140
1 he's doing something with him, but I don't know the
2 details.
3 Q. Have you ever spoken with Mr. Guthrie or
4 communicated with him?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. When is the last time you've spoken or
7 communicated with him?
8 A. Probably was sometime last week.
9 Q. Do you remember what that conversation
10 was about?
11 A. Henry Gomez had an interview with Connie
12 Pillich who is running for State Treasurer, and there
13 was reference and questions on the role of the State
14 Treasurer vis-à-vis pension funds in Ohio, and
15 whether they were mere custodians or whether they
16 controlled the pension funds.
17 Q. Did you ever speak with him in February
18 of 2014?
19 A. No.
20 Q. Do you know Doug Preisse?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And I believe that's spelled,
23 P-r-e-i-s-s-e; is that correct?
24 A. With an "e" on the end.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 140 of 229 PAGEID #: 6347
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
141
1 Q. With an "e" on the end.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. How do you know Mr. Preisse?
4 A. He's the county Republican Chairman here.
5 There's kind of two of them. Doug Preisse is
6 Chairman of, I forget whether it's Executive and
7 Central, and Brad Sinnott is Chairman of Executive, I
8 forget which one is which, but they're both kind of
9 party chairmen here.
10 Q. I'm sorry, how long have you known Doug
11 Preisse?
12 A. 10, 15 years, could be 18, could be 14,
13 I'm not sure exactly, but it's a while.
14 Q. Do you communicate with him often?
15 A. He'll be a person generally because he's
16 on the Board of Elections here in Franklin County
17 that I'll include as part of mass e-mails or group
18 e-mails.
19 Q. Is he an interested person who might
20 supply you money to pay your lawyers?
21 A. He's someone I'd want to talk to, yes.
22 Q. Have you talked to him, yet, about paying
23 your lawyers?
24 A. No.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 141 of 229 PAGEID #: 6348
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
142
1 Q. When was the last conversation you had
2 with Doug Preisse?
3 A. You mean phone conversation?
4 Q. Any kind of conversation, communication
5 of any kind, person, phone, e-mail, text.
6 A. No text recently. I'm trying to think.
7 There probably was an e-mail on something politically
8 in the last two or three weeks, but I don't remember
9 exactly what it was about.
10 Q. Did you ever speak to him in February of
11 2014?
12 A. I probably did, because I was looking for
13 if he knew of any people in Franklin County who were
14 Libertarian, potentially, to be a part of a protest.
15 Q. So you did discuss the protest with him
16 in February of 2014; is that correct?
17 A. He probably was one of the persons that I
18 had some discussion with on it.
19 Q. Did you know, when you spoke with
20 Mr. Preisse, that you, yourself, could not file the
21 challenge to Charlie Earl?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. How did you know that? At the time you
24 spoke with Mr. Preisse how did you know that?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 142 of 229 PAGEID #: 6349
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
143
1 A. I've just known from experience that on a
2 protest, because I was on the Board of Elections in
3 Franklin County for 14 years, that if you're going to
4 have a protest for Republican, you got to have a
5 Republican doing it; if it's a Democrat, a Democrat;
6 a Libertarian, a Libertarian; a Green Party, a Green
7 Party.
8 Q. So your understanding is it had to be a
9 Libertarian who challenged Charlie Earl.
10 A. Well, I've had different people tell me
11 different things at different times. Some will say
12 it has be somebody who is a member of the party, some
13 will say somebody who is not affiliated, so I'm not
14 sure the exact legal answer.
15 Q. In your opinion is it fair to say that
16 the Republican Party, the Franklin County Republican
17 Party, or the Ohio State Republican Party was
18 interested in challenging Charlie Earl's candidacy?
19 A. You're asking me to speak for all those
20 entities and what's on their mind?
21 Q. Yes.
22 A. I don't know whether I can quite, because
23 as you might know, the Republican Party has a lot of
24 different people with a lot of different opinions, so
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 143 of 229 PAGEID #: 6350
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
144
1 I don't know that I can speak for all those entities.
2 Q. But you are a Republican strategist; is
3 that not correct?
4 A. I'm called that at times, yes.
5 Q. So who else would know Republican
6 strategy, but you, correct?
7 A. Well, I don't know that I'm the sole and
8 exclusive authority; far from it.
9 Q. Did you ever talk to Matt Borges about
10 your protest?
11 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
12 A. I don't think I talked to him until it
13 was after something was decided by the Secretary of
14 State and it kind of was going over to federal court.
15 That's my rough recollection.
16 Q. Do you remember exactly, not exactly, but
17 around the time you spoke with Mr. Borges?
18 A. I think it would have been around,
19 whenever the -- if the Secretary of State made a
20 decision, I'm trying to remember whether it was
21 Friday the 7th, and then I think things were headed
22 to federal court the next week. So I don't know
23 whether it was -- my rough guess would be it was
24 sometime that latter week in March.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 144 of 229 PAGEID #: 6351
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
145
1 Q. So it would have been while the case was
2 in federal court that you spoke with Matt Borges.
3 A. That would be my recollection, yes.
4 Q. Is it your testimony that you, on your
5 own initiative, solicited a Libertarian Party member
6 to challenge Charlie Earl?
7 A. I'm the one that called Mr. Felsoci, yes.
8 Q. And you did not discuss doing that with
9 anyone else, it was completely your decision; is that
10 correct?
11 A. Well, I was looking and asking a number
12 of different people in different counties, and there
13 were names given, people were looking for names, but
14 I remember Felsoci was one name; there was another
15 individual, I can't remember the name, who might have
16 been not affiliated, but not a -- he had not voted
17 Libertarian.
18 Q. Have you ever done anything that was
19 completely inconsistent with the Ohio Republican
20 Party's policies and principles?
21 A. There's probably -- are you talking about
22 the platform of the Ohio Republican Party or the
23 platform of the national Republican Party?
24 Q. The state party.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 145 of 229 PAGEID #: 6352
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
146
1 A. The state party?
2 Q. Yes, sir.
3 A. I really haven't read lately, I don't
4 even know whether they still even adopt a platform,
5 but my guess is there's probably some things where I
6 personally believe aren't quite exactly a hundred
7 percent matched with everything that everybody in the
8 Republican Party believes.
9 Q. But you are a true Republican; is that
10 correct?
11 A. I don't know what the term "true
12 Republican" means.
13 Q. You're an ardent Republican.
14 A. "Ardent," like "true," is a term of art.
15 I'm not sure it's a precise legal definition.
16 Q. Would you consciously do something that
17 was inconsistent with Governor Kasich's reelection
18 effort?
19 A. Would I consciously do something?
20 Q. To harm his reelection effort.
21 A. I support him and think he's been a good
22 Governor.
23 Q. Would you ever do anything to consciously
24 hurt his reelection?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 146 of 229 PAGEID #: 6353
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
147
1 A. I don't think I'd do that, but that
2 doesn't mean I agree with everything he says or does.
3 Q. Sure. Sure. I understand that. But you
4 would not have challenged Charlie Earl if you thought
5 it would hurt Kasich's campaign effort; is that
6 correct?
7 A. Ask me that question one more time.
8 Q. You would not have challenged Charlie
9 Earl, as a protestor, if you thought it would hurt
10 John Kasich.
11 A. Probably not. That wasn't the main
12 motivation, but probably would not do that.
13 Q. Did your protest help Kasich?
14 A. I don't know. It's not over.
15 Q. But Charlie Earl is not on the ballot; is
16 that correct?
17 A. As of today.
18 Q. Do you expect Kasich to benefit by
19 Charlie Earl not being on the ballot?
20 A. I've heard different opinions, from
21 different sources, who it benefits. So I haven't
22 studied it in detail, scientifically, to know for
23 certain.
24 Q. What is your opinion? I know you're a
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 147 of 229 PAGEID #: 6354
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
148
1 seasoned political consultant. In your professional
2 opinion, what do you think?
3 A. I'd have to go back, and I don't know
4 whether Quinnipiac ever did a poll that looked at
5 Charlie Earl and then looked at the cross-tabs to see
6 how much he drew form Republican, Democrat, or
7 Independent. So I got to -- normally people ask me
8 that question, I'd rather have polling data and then
9 look at it and look at the cross-tabs in order to
10 give a more scientific answer.
11 Q. You said you were out of the country for
12 a while.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Where did you go?
15 A. Australia and New Zealand.
16 Q. How long were you gone?
17 A. We left on January 9th or 10th and
18 returned on February 10th.
19 Q. So you were here in November and December
20 of 2013; is that correct?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you follow SB 193?
23 A. Not really.
24 Q. Were you aware that the Ohio Republicans
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 148 of 229 PAGEID #: 6355
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
149
1 in the House and Senate were attempting to
2 statutorily remove the Libertarian Party from the
3 ballot?
4 A. I don't know whether that law would have
5 done that or not. I know it changed some of those
6 things, but I didn't, to be honest, as we were doing
7 TV shows in that period, the issue didn't really come
8 up that much and I didn't really focus in on the
9 detail of the laws as it was moving through the
10 legislature.
11 Q. Did you ever discuss with any legislators
12 or Governor Kasich, SB 193, and its impact on the
13 Libertarian Party?
14 A. I don't think so. You say, is it SB 193?
15 Q. Yes, it's SB 193.
16 A. Okay. Not that I can recall. Well, I
17 know definitely not with the Governor. There's 132
18 different legislators, but I don't recall.
19 Q. Did you ever discuss it with Bill Seitz?
20 Is that how you pronounce it?
21 A. Seitz. No. I've talked to him earlier
22 on lots of other things, because I've known him over
23 the years, but nothing whatsoever at that point in
24 the legislative cycle.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 149 of 229 PAGEID #: 6356
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
150
1 Q. You understand that the vote on SB 193
2 was along party lines completely? Was that your
3 understanding?
4 A. I didn't follow it that closely.
5 Q. Would it surprise you to know that's what
6 happened?
7 A. There's a lot of things in the
8 legislature that surprise me and some things that
9 don't. Again, I just didn't --
10 Q. Why would all the Republicans vote in
11 favor of that and all the Democrats vote against it?
12 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Calls for
13 speculation.
14 A. I don't know. I just didn't follow it
15 that closely.
16 Q. Doesn't it prove that removal of the
17 Libertarian Party candidates favors the Republicans,
18 at least in their minds?
19 A. I don't know. I didn't follow the bill,
20 and what some legislators think things will benefit
21 or harm and what it really does, sometimes there's a
22 correlation and sometimes there's not.
23 Q. I think you said earlier that in your
24 experience as a member of the Franklin County BOE,
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 150 of 229 PAGEID #: 6357
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
151
1 Board of Elections, protestors had to be of the same
2 party as the candidate being protested in the context
3 of primaries; is that correct?
4 A. That's the general context I remember,
5 but I'm not sure of legal rulings, law changes since
6 that point. And, again, I'm not a lawyer and I
7 haven't studied the issue. I mean that's a
8 generality.
9 Q. But, in general, state law, your
10 understanding, requires that the protestor be of the
11 same political party; is that correct?
12 A. I'm not sure what the statute says,
13 whether it says you have to be a member of the party
14 or you can't be a member of another party. So I
15 don't remember the exact statute.
16 Q. But that's why you needed a Libertarian,
17 in your opinion, in your mind; is that correct?
18 A. In my view that was the best situation to
19 have.
20 Q. I believe there was also an unaffiliated
21 voter who initially joined in Mr. Felsoci's protest;
22 is that correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Do you remember who that was?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 151 of 229 PAGEID #: 6358
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
152
1 A. I was going to say Greg, but that's
2 Felsoci's first name. Scott, I can't remember
3 exactly.
4 Q. I forgot too, Mr. Casey. Did you recruit
5 him also? We can find his name if you'd like.
6 A. Yeah. Yeah, I talked to him.
7 Q. How did you get -- how did you contact
8 him?
9 A. There was somebody, and I can't remember
10 the name who knew the person and they gave me his
11 name and number, and I followed up, and he was
12 willing to be helpful. I know he had an office out
13 near Easton because I went out with some of the
14 paperwork and met with him.
15 Q. So you actually met with him.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. This would have been about the same time
18 that you met with Mr. Felsoci?
19 MR. TIGGES: Object to the
20 characterization.
21 A. I never met Mr. Felsoci.
22 Q. I'm sorry. That you called Mr. Felsoci.
23 A. It was sometime in that period.
24 Q. Was he dismissed from the protest, do you
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 152 of 229 PAGEID #: 6359
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
153
1 know, the unaffiliated voter?
2 A. I don't remember the mechanics that the
3 lawyers did.
4 Q. So you don't know whether he was
5 dismissed or not?
6 A. That sounds generally correct, but I
7 don't know the exact mechanics and timing.
8 Q. Did you pay this unaffiliated voter?
9 A. No.
10 Q. Did the unaffiliated voter, to your
11 knowledge, pay your lawyers?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Were you paying his lawyers' fees too?
14 A. My sense, it was all part of the same
15 general legal effort.
16 Q. So you agreed to pay his lawyers' fees
17 just as you agreed to pay Gregory Felsoci's lawyers'
18 fees; is that correct.
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. Have you paid any of his lawyers' fees
21 yet?
22 A. Which person?
23 Q. The unaffiliated, I'm sorry, I think his
24 name is Scott Tyler.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 153 of 229 PAGEID #: 6360
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
154
1 A. I haven't seen any bill come through for
2 him.
3 Q. Are you prepared to pay it when it comes
4 through?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And how are you going to pay it?
7 A. My sense is it won't be very much because
8 I don't think much was done for him.
9 Q. Are you going to pay that out of your own
10 bank account?
11 A. I haven't got to that stage yet.
12 Q. Are you going to solicit interested
13 persons?
14 A. Probably.
15 Q. Why do you think state law prohibits
16 members from one party from protesting the candidacy
17 of another?
18 MR. TIGGES: Objection. No foundation.
19 Answer if you can.
20 A. I don't remember the exact legislative
21 history, but it's -- it's kind of been there,
22 directly or indirectly part of the law for a while.
23 But, again, I don't know exactly the state of the law
24 right now.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 154 of 229 PAGEID #: 6361
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
155
1 Q. I believe you testified earlier that you
2 did have communications with Matt Damschroder before
3 the protest was filed on February 21; is that
4 correct?
5 A. Some communications, yes.
6 Q. Did you ask Matt Damschroder to make sure
7 that the Secretary of State's office stayed open
8 after 4:00 p.m. to receive a late protest filed by
9 you?
10 A. I don't recall that I would have asked
11 that because I thought the time deadline was
12 4:00 p.m. statutorily.
13 Q. That is correct, it is 4:00 p.m.
14 statutorily.
15 A. Right.
16 Q. So you don't recall ever asking him to
17 stay open just in case your protest was not filed at
18 4:00?
19 A. I can't imagine asking that question
20 because if 4:00 is the deadline, 4:00 is the
21 deadline.
22 Q. But you did give him advance notice that
23 the protest was on its way; is that correct?
24 A. I don't know whether I gave him advance
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 155 of 229 PAGEID #: 6362
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
156
1 notice or not.
2 Q. Do you know who actually filed the
3 Felsoci protest?
4 A. My recollection --
5 Q. Physically, I mean.
6 A. My recollection, Dan Mead did.
7 Q. Do you recollect who filed the protest
8 against Linnabary, by chance?
9 A. I have no idea.
10 Q. Do you know if the protest against
11 Linnabary was coordinated in any way with your
12 efforts against Charlie Earl?
13 A. "Coordinated." I've got a few vague
14 little recollections, but I don't know what resulted
15 on the AG's campaign. I don't know what they were
16 doing or not doing. I know I had mentioned something
17 to a political friend who I knew knew some people in
18 the AG's office, but the last I'd heard it seemed
19 like they weren't going to do anything, and then I
20 kind of got the vibe or something that something was
21 going to be done and then found out they actually
22 filed.
23 Q. Do you happen to remember the political
24 friend's name?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 156 of 229 PAGEID #: 6363
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
157
1 A. Mike Keegan.
2 Q. And you said it was the AG's campaign
3 that you had been considering?
4 A. No. I just knew he knew some people
5 connected to the AG or the AG's campaign. And I
6 think basically I shared with him that we discovered
7 Mr. Hatchett and all of his problems and that he had
8 apparently done a lot of the signatures for Linnabary
9 or whoever the AG candidate was.
10 Q. So it was the AG campaign, on its own,
11 that filed the challenge against Linnabary with no
12 connection to you at all.
13 A. Well, I didn't know they filed until they
14 actually filed, if that's your question.
15 Q. Yes.
16 Was Doug Preisse involved with that? Do
17 you know?
18 A. I don't know whether he was or not.
19 Q. I mean with the AG's filing.
20 A. I don't know. I don't know.
21 Q. Did anyone acting on behalf of the Ohio
22 Republican Party or Matt Borges or the Franklin
23 County Republican Party assist you in any way in
24 protesting Charlie Earl?
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 157 of 229 PAGEID #: 6364
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
158
1 A. Wait a minute. I was focusing. You had
2 three different, Franklin County, state party.
3 Q. Matt Borges.
4 A. Well, that's kind of one and the same,
5 either Franklin County or state party, and then what
6 was the rest of the question?
7 Q. Did anyone connected with the state
8 party, Franklin County party, or Matt Borges, have
9 anything to do with assisting you in your protest
10 against Charlie Earl?
11 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
12 A. I don't think Borges because I really
13 didn't communicate with him. I know I talked to Doug
14 in looking for a Libertarian and also sharing with
15 him some of the problems we discovered on the
16 questions with the Democrat Party and their
17 operatives being involved in things. So I know I
18 shared some of that.
19 Q. So Doug Preisse, is he the only one?
20 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
21 A. Yeah, I'm not sure whether we found
22 things on Hatchett or, as we were looking for other
23 things like that, at what point I reached out.
24 Again, sometimes as there'd be developments, I'd do
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 158 of 229 PAGEID #: 6365
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
159
1 some blast e-mails out and that kind of thing.
2 Q. But you did reach out to Doug Preisse for
3 any assistance.
4 A. Right. On the Libertarian person, yes.
5 Q. And the "Libertarian person" would be
6 Charlie Earl; is that correct?
7 A. It was primarily about, I think, the
8 Gubernatorial thing.
9 Q. Was there anybody else that was helping
10 you, assisting you in finding a Libertarian
11 protestor?
12 A. I reached out to a bunch of other
13 political people, like I mentioned, Lucas County,
14 Cuyahoga County, Summit County, there might have been
15 some other counties, looking for Libertarians who
16 might be potential folks.
17 Q. Anybody else in Franklin County, do you
18 remember?
19 A. I don't think I talked to Brad Sinnott.
20 I think I talked to Doug.
21 Q. Did anybody ever say to you "Stop it;
22 don't do this"?
23 A. Not that I know of.
24 Q. So you reached out to, they're all
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 159 of 229 PAGEID #: 6366
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
160
1 Republicans, I assume; is that correct?
2 A. I think so, yeah.
3 Q. And not one of them ever said "Don't do
4 this"?
5 A. I don't remember anybody saying that.
6 Q. Did the leadership in the Franklin County
7 Republican Party know you were doing this?
8 A. I talked to Doug, but I didn't talk to
9 Brad Sinnott, so I don't know whether anybody else
10 did or not.
11 Q. Did the leadership in the Ohio Republican
12 Party know you were doing this?
13 A. I'm not sure what they knew or didn't
14 know.
15 Q. Did Matt Borges know you were doing this?
16 A. I don't know.
17 Q. Who else might have known you were doing
18 this?
19 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Calls for
20 speculation.
21 A. I mean I know --
22 Q. To your knowledge, of course. To your
23 knowledge.
24 A. Right. Right. Right. What --
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 160 of 229 PAGEID #: 6367
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
161
1 MR. TIGGES: Wait a minute. Stop.
2 What's the question?
3 MR. BROWN: Can you read back the
4 question?
5 MR. TIGGES: You said might and then you
6 said to his knowledge, and the two are fundamentally
7 inconsistent.
8 MR. BROWN: Why don't you read back the
9 question. Go ahead, Carolyn.
10 (Record read.)
11 MR. BROWN: I was trying to respond to
12 Steve's objection on speculation. I only want
13 Mr. Casey to answer to what he knows.
14 THE WITNESS: Right.
15 MR. TIGGES: So what's the question? Are
16 you asking him who he knows?
17 MR. BROWN: Carolyn, can you read the
18 question?
19 MR. TIGGES: Fine. Go ahead. I don't
20 care.
21 (Record read.)
22 MR. TIGGES: The question's
23 objectionable. Same objection. Calls for
24 speculation.
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 161 of 229 PAGEID #: 6368
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
162
1 A. I'm not sure who else would have known
2 because I was kind of spreading the network out in
3 terms of both kind of sharing my surprise over the
4 whole Oscar Hatchett, Democrat Party stuff, because I
5 thought it was pretty amazing that the Democrat Party
6 would be that involved in trying to literally
7 manipulate, prop up, run, almost, the Libertarian
8 Party. So I mean I shared with a lot of people how
9 shocked and surprised I was.
10 Q. Sure. So you sent this information to a
11 lot of people.
12 A. Right. Yes.
13 Q. And did anyone ever object?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Given the fact that you sent it to many
16 people, Matt Borges must have known; is that correct?
17 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Calls for
18 speculation.
19 A. I don't know what -- I haven't gone back
20 and said, "Matt, what did you know and when?" I've
21 never had that discussion with him.
22 Q. Was he on your e-mail list?
23 A. Probably.
24 Q. So if he would have been in one of the
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 162 of 229 PAGEID #: 6369
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
163
1 blasts, he would have known, if he read the e-mails,
2 of course.
3 A. Well, again, I don't know. You send out
4 e-mails and most of the time you never hear from
5 anybody.
6 Q. Does Matt ever respond to any of your
7 e-mails?
8 A. Sometimes he does.
9 Q. And again, frankly, you are a well-known
10 political consultant and a well-respected political
11 consultant, so people read your e-mails, don't they?
12 MR. TIGGES: Objection. Calls for
13 speculation.
14 A. I like the "well-respected part." If I
15 can get that certified, that would be good to have.
16 I don't know how many people read, you know, whether
17 it's on political things or on travel things or the
18 grandchildren, I send out a lot of things to a lot of
19 people, and sometimes you never hear anything and
20 sometimes I'm surprised and pleased by people that
21 give nice feedback.
22 Q. But your blasts about the protests were
23 sent out before the protest was filed.
24 A. Oh, sure, yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean,
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 163 of 229 PAGEID #: 6370
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
164
1 I literally hate to be so blunt, but was salivating
2 over all this intrigue with Ian James, people at the
3 Ohio Democrat Party, and then I was really shocked at
4 the hearing on, was it the 28th, you were there, to
5 hear about this breakfast with Redfern and the
6 Libertarian Party and all those other things. I mean
7 it was, to be honest, I'd never seen anything like
8 that in my life. I was surprised.
9 Q. So you made sure you sent that
10 information far and wide.
11 A. Yes. Yeah. Including, during the course
12 of the hearing, "The Dispatch" had a story out about
13 the morning activities, and sent that out to a big
14 bunch of folks, too, because this, I thought, it was
15 real intriguing news.
16 Q. And, of course, all the leadership of the
17 Ohio Republican Party would have been involved in
18 that blast, right?
19 MR. TIGGES: Object to form.
20 A. I sent it out to a lot of folks; whether
21 they read it, what they thought of it, I don't know.
22 MR. BROWN: Just one second, Mr. Casey.
23 THE WITNESS: Oh, sure.
24 MR. BROWN: Mr. Casey, thank you very
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 164 of 229 PAGEID #: 6371
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
165
1 much. It's been a pleasure.
2 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
3 MR. BROWN: And I think I'll turn you
4 over now to Mr. Zeiger and Mr. Tigges and Ms. Coontz.
5 MS. COONTZ: I have no questions.
6 MR. TIGGES: We'll read.
7 (The deposition concluded at 5:23 p.m.)
8 - - -
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 165 of 229 PAGEID #: 6372
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
166
1 State of Ohio : : SS:
2 County of ___________________ :
3 I, Terry Casey, do hereby certify that I have read the foregoing transcript of my deposition given
4 on Thursday, August 28, 2014; that together with the correction page attached hereto noting changes in
5 form or substance, if any, it is true and correct.
6
7 ____________________________ Terry Casey
8
9 I do hereby certify that the foregoing transcript of the deposition of Terry Casey was
10 submitted to the witness for reading and signing; that after he had stated to the undersigned Notary
11 Public that he had read and examined his deposition, he signed the same in my presence on the ________ day
12 of ______________________, 2014.
13 __________________________
14 Notary Public
15
16 My commission expires _________________, ________.
17 - - -
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 166 of 229 PAGEID #: 6373
Terry Casey
Armstrong & Okey, Inc., Columbus, Ohio (614) 224-9481
167
1 CERTIFICATE
2 State of Ohio : : SS:
3 County of Franklin :
4 I, Carolyn M. Burke, Notary Public in and for the State of Ohio, duly commissioned and qualified,
5 certify that the within named Terry Casey was by me duly sworn to testify to the whole truth in the cause
6 aforesaid; that the testimony was taken down by me in stenotypy in the presence of said witness, afterwards
7 transcribed upon a computer; that the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the testimony given by
8 said witness taken at the time and place in the foregoing caption specified and completed without
9 adjournment.
10 I certify that I am not a relative, employee, or attorney of any of the parties hereto, or of any
11 attorney or counsel employed by the parties, or financially interested in the action.
12 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my
13 hand and affixed my seal of office at Columbus, Ohio, on this 5th day of September, 2014.
14
15 _______________________________ Carolyn M. Burke, Registered
16 Professional Reporter, and Notary Public in and for the
17 State of Ohio.
18 My commission expires July 17, 2018.
19
20 - - -
21
22
23
24
Case: 2:13-cv-00953-MHW-TPK Doc #: 241-1 Filed: 09/28/14 Page: 167 of 229 PAGEID #: 6374