torah a discussion

8/18/2019 TORAH A DISCUSSION

1/32

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& School Sends Out 'arning "%out "lleged Child Molester ( Main ( )acism*

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"S 13 2011

Scholars* he orah 'e !ave oda 5s 6ot he orah Our "ncestors !ad

So-er hands closeu7 " dull8loo,ing chart 7ro9ected on the :all o- a universit

o;ce in Jerusalem dis7laed a revelation that :ould startle man readers o-

the Old estament* he sacred text that 7eo7le revered in the 7ast :as not

the same one :e stud toda.

So-er hands closeu7

#hoto* " Je:ish ritual scri%e3 so-er3 :riting a me


2/32

the Old estament* he sacred text that 7eo7le revered in the 7ast :as not

the same one :e stud toda.

"n ancient version o- one %oo, has an extra 7hrase. "nother a77ears to have

%een revised to retroactivel insert a 7ro7hec a-ter the events ha77ened.

Scholars in this out8o-8the8:a corner o- the !e%re: niversit cam7us have

%een ?uietl at :or, -or @ ears on one o- the most am%itious 7ro9ects

attem7ted in %i%lical studies – 7u%lishing the authoritative edition o- the Old

estament3 also ,no:n as the !e%re: +i%le3 and trac,ing ever single

evolution o- the text over centuries and millennia.

"nd it has evolved3 des7ite dee7l held %elie-s to the contrar.

For man Je:s and Christians3 religion dictates that the :ords o- the +i%le in

the original !e%re: are divine3 unaltered and unaltera%le. For Orthodox Je:s3

the accurac is considered so inviola%le that i- a snagogue>s orah scroll is

-ound to have a minute error in a single letter3 the entire scroll is unusa%le.

+ut the ongoing :or, o- the academic detectives o- the +i%le #ro9ect3 as theirunderta,ing is ,no:n3 sho:s that this text at the root o- Judaism3 Christianit

and 5slam :as some:hat uid -or long 7eriods o- its histor3 and that its

transmission through the ages :as messier and more human than most o- us

imagine.

he 7ro9ect>s scholars have %een at :or, on their critical edition o- the

!e%re: +i%le3 a version intended mainl -or the use o- other scholars3 since

1DE.

'hat :e>re doing here must %e o- interest -or anone interested in the

+i%le3 said Michael Segal3 the scholar :ho heads the 7ro9ect.

he sheer volume o- in-ormation ma,es the +i%le #ro9ect>s version the most


3/32

com7rehensive critical edition o- the !e%re: +i%le in existence at the 7resent

time3 said Gavid Marcus3 a +i%le scholar at the Je:ish heological Seminar

in 6e: Hor,3 :ho is not involved :ith the 7ro9ect.

+ut Segal and his colleagues toil in relative anonmit. heir underta,ing is

nearl un,no:n outside a circle o- +i%le ex7erts num%ering several hundred

7eo7le at most3 and a visitor as,ing directions to the +i%le #ro9ect>s o;ce on

the universit cam7us :ill $nd that man mem%ers o- the universit>s o:n

staI have never heard o- it.

Onl @ %oo,s 7u%lished in decades

his is an endeavor so meticulous3 its 7ace so disconnected -rom that o- the

:orld outside3 that in more than $ve decades o- :or, the scholars have

7u%lished a grand total o- three o- the !e%re: +i%le>s 24 %oo,s. AChristians

count the same %oo,s diIerentl3 -or a total o- @D.B " -ourth is due out during

the u7coming academic ear.

5- the 7ace is maintained3 the $nal 7roduct :ill %e com7lete a little over 200

ears -rom no:. his is %oth a 7oint o- 7ride and a matter o- some mild sel-8

de7recation around the o;ce.

+i%le #ro9ect scholars have s7ent ears com%ing through manuscri7ts such as

the Gead Sea Scrolls3 ree, translations on 7a7rus -rom g7t3 a 7rinted

+i%le -rom 12 Kenice3 7archment %oo,s in hand:ritten !e%re:3 the

Samaritan orah3 and scrolls in "ramaic and Latin. he last mem%er o- the

original team died last ear at age D0.

he scholars note :here the text :e have no: diIers -rom older versions 8diIerences that are evidence o- the inevita%le textual hiccu7s3 scri%al errors

and other human $nger7rints that %ecame 7art o- the +i%le as it :as 7assed

on3 orall and in :riting.

" Microso-t xcel chart 7ro9ected on one :all on a recent Sunda sho:ed


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variations in a single 7hrase -rom the +oo, o- Malachi3 a 7ro7het.

he verse in ?uestion3 -rom the text :e ,no: toda3 ma,es re-erence to

those :ho s:ear -alsel. he scholars have -ound that in ?uotes -rom

ra%%inic :ritings around the th centur ".G.3 the 7hrase :as longer* those

:ho s:ear -alsel in m name.

5n another exam7le3 this one -rom the +oo, o- Geuteronom3 a 7assage

re-erring to commandments given % od to ou once read to us3 a

signi$cant change in meaning.

Other diIerences are more stri,ing.

he +oo, o- Jeremiah is no: one8seventh longer than the one that a77ears in

some o- the 230008ear8old manuscri7ts ,no:n as the Gead Sea Scrolls. Some

verses3 including ones containing a 7ro7hec a%out the seis version o- the core text – the one to :hich the others are

com7ared – is %ased on this manuscri7t. Other critical editions o- the +i%le3

such as one currentl %eing 7re7ared in Stuttgart3 erman3 are %ased on a

slightl ne:er manuscri7t held in St. #eters%urg3 )ussia.

Considering that the nature o- their :or, :ould %e considered controversial3

i- not oIensive3 % man religious 7eo7le3 it is 7erha7s sur7rising that most o-

the 7ro9ect>s scholars are themselves Orthodox Je:s.


5/32

" %elieving Je: claims that the source o- the +i%le is 7ro7hec3 said the

7ro9ect>s %earded academic secretar3 )a-ael er. +ut as soon as the :ords

are given to human %eings 8 :ith od>s agreement3 and at his initiative – the

holiness o- the %i%lical text remains3 even i- mista,es are made :hen the text

is 7assed on.

#OSG " 04*@ #M 56 !5SO)H3 5S)"L3 )L55O63 )L55O6 N S" (

#)M"L56

COMM6S

Feed Hou can -ollo: this conversation % su%scri%ing to the comment -eed -or

this 7ost.

Ca7tool

Polden cal-Qred hei-er Hes i- ou loo, %ac, at all the diIerent scri7ts extant

:hen 7aleo8he%re: :as %eing used ou onl $nd 22 letters. hat is including

other languages -rom the area that :ere closel related.

#OSG +H* C"#OOL ( "S 23 2011 " 01*0D "M

olden cal-Qred hei-er

P7agan

Just %ecause "ra%ic has a se7arate letter -or ghain and ain doesn>t mean a

damn thing. he also have se7arate letters -or sin and shin Aas :ell as

othersB next are ou and our 7suedolinguist -riend JeI +enner going to claim

there is a missing letter sin that got o%sor%ed % the letter shinR

here is no hard evidence that there is a :hole letter that :ent missing. Justthat the ain :as 7ronounced diIerentl at one 7oint in time.

he gimmal and daled also had diIerent 7ronunciations at one time. 'hat is

our 7ointR


6/32

#OSG +H* OLG6 C"LFQ)G !5F) ( "S 1D3 2011 " 0@* #M

"aronM

Hochanan Lavie* Loo, li,e is a hard ?uestion to ans:er3 %ut sound :as

7ro%a%l more guteralQglottal. hin, o- the diIerence %et:een a !a and a

Chet as an exam7le*

!a*Chet ** immel*hain

not a 7er-ect ex7laination3 %ut gets ou into the %all7ar,.

" diIerent :a to thin, a%out it is in most older Semitic languages a "in is

not a silent letter Ali,e an ale7hB %ut a glottal8sto7 8 thin, o- the hard 7ause in

the 7hrase 5 am i- ou 7ronounce each :ord com7letel. " ain is an

unvoiced sto73 a hain is that same sto73 %ut voiced.

#OSG +H* "")O6M ( "S 1D3 2011 " 10*@0 "M

Hochanan Lavie

'hat did the ghain loo, li,eR !o: did it diIer -rom the gimmel and the

>ainR

#OSG +H* HOC!"6"6 L"K5 ( "S 1D3 2011 " 0*4E "M

#agan

Sorr Joe3 not so. L t7icall omits to transliterate ain %ecause it is

AalmostB silent. +aal and +alaam -or instance contain ain in !e%re: %ut no

e?uivalent in ree,. he transliteration :ith gamma there-ore re7resents a

voiced letter.


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"lso3 the nearest cognate languages to he%re: 8 "ra%ic and garitic 8 ,ee7

the distinction %et:een ain and ghain. 5ndeed3 ou can $nd man "ra%ic

:ords that contain their ghain :here the modern !e%re: has ain3 and the

h7othesis that this :as originall ghain is a strong one.

Ahe exam7le given in class :as the :ord -or cro:* !e%re: >orev3 "ra%ic

ghuraa%. he triliteral root is gh8r8%.B Li,e:ise3 triliteral gh8m8r %ecame "ra%ic

ghumr %ut !e%re: >omer.

More on this can %e -ound in JeI +enner>s article here* htt7*QQ:::.ancient8

he%re:.orgQ4Tmissing.html

#OSG +H* #""6 ( "S 1D3 2011 " 04*4E "M

Joe in "ustralia

6o3 #agan is a%solutel :rong. She mentions the Se7tuagint>s transliteration

Aas :ell as the nglish one 8 :hich is o- course %ased on the Se7tuagint3

%ecause nglish :asn>t s7o,en until a thousand ears a-ter the Se7tuagintB.

he Se7tuagint has a transliteration %ased on the :a that a ree, reader:ould have 7ronounced >aamora A:here >a is an ainB. ree, doesn>t

have an e?uivalent to ain3 so the used a gamma. hat doesn>t mean that

the !e%re: text had a ghain* it didn>t. 5n -act :e have :ritten !e%re: texts

-rom the time o- the Se7tuagint and %e-ore Ae.g.3 the Gead Sea Scrolls3 some

inscri7tionsB and the use the same al7ha%et :e have toda.

#OSG +H* JO 56 "S)"L5" ( "S 1E3 2011 " 11*42 #M

Chicago Sam

#agan is a%solutel correct3 and % the :a88a


8/32

כי לא תשת וה לאל א

(Exo 34:14 WTT)

שמע ישראל יקוק אלהינו יקוק א

(Deut. 6:4)

W! te e"#$%&e' #ette% *e+$ue o, te e%-ou +%-$# e%%o% t$t o"+e o++u%%e'

(/-t+ te #ette% $%ou"' -" e$+ 0$$&e $"' !ou /-## ee). Te text o, te To%$ - "ot

2-$+u#$te2 -t - $+u#$te Te%e "e5e% /$ $ 20e%,e+t2 To%$ e+$ue te 0eo0#e /o/%-te te To%$ $%e ,$% ,%o 0e%,e+t.

78TED *9: ;7 8=? @ =A>A8T 1B C11 =T 4:6 ?

ue#

="' /$t $out te "ot-o" o, 2t-FFu" o,%-2 -" /-+ +$G$# tou+e' u0 H1I -#-+$#

5e%e out o, %e0e+t ,o% >o' We" - -t tou&t t$t te! '-' t-$"!/$!

78TED *9: 8;?AEJ @ =A>A8T 1B C11 =T 4:1 ?

ue#

Te &u! $t ///.'$$teet.+o $5e $ /o#e #-,%$K! o, $%t-+#e $*out Lut t- -ue.

#-+F o" 2to%$ text2.

78TED *9: 8;?AEJ @ =A>A8T 1B C11 =T 4:B ?

="o"

http://var/www/apps/conversion/tmp/scratch_7/www.daatemet.comhttp://var/www/apps/conversion/tmp/scratch_7/www.daatemet.comhttp://var/www/apps/conversion/tmp/scratch_7/www.daatemet.com


9/32

ou#' te%e e $"! +%e'e"+e to te -'e$ t$t te 0o/e% o, !t - "ot /e$te% -t -

,$+tu$# $++u%$te o% "ot A8T 1B C11 =T 3: ?

-e%%e

D%. Je-$" #-t ex$0#e t$t 2&o e!o"' t$t2 -" te% o, +o"eOue"+e ,o% 0%$+t-+e

t$t $%e "ot "e+e$%-#! e%e#! +%-$# e%%o%.

78TED *9: A8T 1B C11 =T C:I ?

8$%!$

Te t%$'-t-o"$# Pe/- 5e%-o" - $e' o" te Qete% o, =#e00o.

8-&.

No &L te t%$'-t-o"$# 5e%-o" - N7T $e' o" te =#e00o o'ex.

Te 2t%$'-t-o"$#2 5e%-o" 0otRS E (o% e5e" #$te%) - $e' o" =#e00o.

*e,o%e t$t %$-"-+ Pe/ -"+#u'-"& $G$# $' e5e%$# '-,,e%e"t 5e%-o".

="' /-#e +o0!-"& e%%o% +#e$%#! $Fe u0 te $Lo%-t! o, te '-,,e%e"+e et/ee" te5e%-o" oe o, te '-,,e%e"+e &o e!o"' t$t.


10/32

78TED *9: 8;?=K9= @ =A>A8T 1B C11 =T 1:4C ?

&L

T- $%t-+#e - -#e$'-"& &$%$&e. ="! %e$# t$#-' +o+$ F"o/ t$t t- - "ot-"&"e/.

Te%e $%e e5e%$# '-,,e%e"t $"+-e"t 5e%-o" o, te T$"$+. Te! ot#! '-,,e% -" 0e##-"&.

Te t%$'-t-o"$# Pe/- 5e%-o" - $e' o" te Qete% o, =#e00o.


11/32

78TED *9: >;P @ =A>A8T 1B C11 =T 11:3 =?

-e%%e

K. *$%%! U%eu"'e# +$" &-5e !ou R -, e-te% !ou o% e $5e t-e R $ /o#e e&-##$ $outte -&"-,-+$"+e o, +$"&e -" text te -''#e #ette% o, to%$ #$x3. ="' o5-ou#!

+$%e'- /-## "ot $++e0t - tou&t ut...eM "ot #ou+ o" tee t-"& $"' /!

/ou#' !ou 0eo0#e /$"t to exto# K-&t W-"& 5-e/ o, te t%$'-t-o" $ exto##-"& te 2t%ue2

0e%0e+t-5e o" tee t-"& Te ou%+e < &-5e &-5e 7T;EK 5o-+e e5e" 2&e'o#-2 o,

$ KW +$te R /o utte%#! +o"t%$'-+t te 0%eu0t-o" t$t te "e/ ou%+e 0$-"t $

toe o, 7%to'ox Pu'$- et $#.

78TED *9: A8T 1B C11 =T 11:I =?

8$%!$

T$t %e$##! -"Mt t%ue


12/32

Te =Fe"$G- 0%o"ou"+e ot te $e

W-#e te 8e0$%'- e0e+-$##! te 9ee"-te ue $ 5e%! '-t-"+t ou"' ,o% te =-!"

78TED *9: A8T 1B C11 =T 1:1 =?

-e%%e

T- - $ +o"5e%$t-o" -" te >e$%$ $"' -" 5-%tu$##! e5e%! &e"e%$t-o"...Lut e+$ue -tM

$Fe'Ru0 "e/ to 2Te Ne/2 'oe"Mt e$" -tM "e/ T7 T;E PEW8 R e5e%! ,e/ !e$% <

0ot tee 0-e+e $"' ote% e+$ue.../e## e5e%! ,e/ !e$% 0eo0#e ,o%&et te

+o"5e%$t-o" $ ,e/ !e$% e,o%eV

tt0:+.$"u.e'u.$uX''-#u&-oe"=%t

tt0:///.#e-$"#-%$%!.+otextYo,Y0u#-+$t-o"I4.ZC?$o%$ZC$"'

ZC;$#$F$ZC=ZC8tu'!ZC-"ZCo",#-+t.0',

tt0:ooF.&ooe.+oooF

-'[35J6tA?


13/32

78TED *9: 8;?=K9= @ =A>A8T 1B C11 =T 1:41 =?

>$%"e# %eeF To%$ /e%e +o%%u0te' o" 0u%0oe ! ,o#F -" e$+ &%ou0 /-t $" $&e"'$. De0-te

te -& #e5e# o, +o#$%-0 t- +$"&e 0%ett! u+ "ot-"&.

78TED *9: >=KNEJ A8T 1B C11 =T 1:C1 =?

>o#'e" +$#,%e' e-,e%

H$&$"

;o/ 'o !ou F"o/ t$t te 2&2 0%o"u"+-$t-o" o, te #ette% $!-" /$"Mt Lut t$"'$%' o%

$#te%"$te 0%o"u"+-$t-o" W! 'o !ou +#$- /-t +e%t$-"t! -t /$ $ /o#e '-,,e%e"t #ette%

t$t /e"t --"& ou#'"Mt -t $5e ee" #-Fe te 2bcd f2 #ette% /-+ $## $t o"e t-e$' o%e t$" o"e 0%o"u"+-$t-o" (etR5et &-e#RL-e# et+.)

A"#e !ou +$" o/ $ #ot o, e5-'e"+e t$t 2&$!-"2 /$ $ '-,,e%e"t #ette% t$t +o0#ete#!

5$"-e' < t-"F -t - '-o"et to 0ot $ -, -t /e%e -"'-0ut$#e ,$+t.

T$t e-"& $-' ,ou"' te $%t-+#e -"te%et-"&. 7"e t-"& < ,ou"' ,u""! t$t %e#-&-ou

0eo0#e < ue' to tu'! /-t +ou#' "e5e% $++e0t oe/$t o" t- $e to0-+ - te ,$+t

t$t te ;e%e/ +$%$+te% (/-t $## te-% 2F$$#-t-+2 e$"-"& o" e5e%! "u$"+e o, te-%

$0e) /e%e"Mt o%-&-"$##! ;e%e/ #ette% ut $'o0te' ,%o =%$$-+ 0%o$#! $%ou"' te

,-%t te0#e 'et%u+t-o". 7"e -"te%et-"& t-"& ,ou"' -" te 'e$' e$ +%o## /e%e


14/32

+%-0tu%e /%-tte" $## -" te o'e%" #ette% ex+e0t ,o% $## te 0#$+e &o' !u' e! 5$5

e! "$e /$ /%-tte" &o' ,ou% #ette% "$e /$ /%-tte" $#/$! -" te o%-&-"$# 20$#eoR

;e%e/2 #ette% ,o%.

78TED *9: >7JDEN =JUKED ;EA8T 1B C11 =T S:B =?

--

?$tGo - Lut J$5o. ?! '$' %eee% J$5o ,%o $ +-#' $ $ o,t %e$' t$t

$%'e" Ou-+F#! e+$ue -t - o"#! ,#ou% $"' /$te%.


15/32

T$"F.

78TED *9: =*K==D=*K= @ =A>A8T 1B C11 =T 6:1 =?

='$ Ne-%$

To 9o+$"$" J$5-e

2/$t tee +o#$% $%e 'o-"& - #e&-t.2

o%%e+t

78TED *9: =D=? NEA8T 1B C11 =T :I =?

$&$"

="ote% -"te%et-"& oe%5$t-o" ("ot -"e < $te" to $''). %eeF $' #ot -t '-&$$ +e"tu%-e e$%#-e%.


16/32

78TED *9: =>=N @ =A>A8T 1B C11 =T 4:31 =?

9o+$"$" J$5-e

*$+F ,%o 5$+$t-o": EG%$ te +%-e $"' te +oe"t$to%


17/32

78TED *9: J7J @ =A>A8T 1B C11 =T 1C:1 =?

='$ Ne-%$

To N-&%-tu'e A#t%$$%-"e

We" ?$-o"-'e '-' - %e$%F$#e tu'! o, te e"t$teu+ e +o'-,-e' 613 -tG5ot

/e" -" ,$+t te%e $%e $"! o%e. 7"e ex$0#e t$t e '-'"Mt -"+#u'e /$ te "ee' to

+$%%! $ 0$''#e out-'e te +$0 to 0e%,o% o"eM $#ut-o". Te Ouet-o" %e$-" +$"

!ou 0#$+e te -tG5ot -"to oe o%t o, -e%$%+! o, -0o%t$"+e

-.e.


18/32

-+Fe" /$ 0$%e5e

78TED *9: NK


19/32

78TED *9: DK. D=^E @ =A>A8T 1I C11 =T S:41 ?

='$ Ne-%$

To D%.D$5e

=%t+%o## ou#' "ot ,ee# t%e$te"e' ! t- 2"e/ e'-$2. Te 0u#--"& oue 0ut out

oe &%e$t Ou$#-t! ooF. =#te%"$t-5e ou%+e o, -",o%$t-o" ou#' e +o"-'e%e'

e0e+-$##! /e" "e/ t%ut $%e %e5e$#e'. e%$0 oe 0eo0#e -" 0o-t-o" o, 0o/e% $%e

0et%-,-e' %-&t "o/ e+$ue te-% +$%e,u##! +%$,te' e'-,-+e $%e -" '$"&e% o, +o##$0-"&

$%ou"' te. T- - te t%e$t t$t tee %ee$%+e% $t ;e%e/ A"-5e%-t! 0oe. Te

,-# 2N$e o, te Koe2 +oe to -"'. < /-## et ! #e,t #e& t$t te ,-"'-"& ,%o tee

+o#$% 'o "ot +o",#-+t /-t ! /o%#'5-e/ $"' u"'e%t$"'-"& o, te T$"$+ e5e" o"e

0e%+e"t.

eo0#e ou#' tu'! te T$"$+ ,%o $" e$%#! $&e ut e0e+-$##! te e"t$teu+ -.e.

U-5e too# -" $"+-e"t >%eeF. T- ou#' e -" +o"Lu"+t-o" /-t : ;-to%!V >eo&%$0!V

8+-e"+eV ?$te$t-+V =%tV J-te%$tu%e E+o"o-+ $"' o#-t-+. Te 0!-+$# -'e o,

e'u+$t-o" ou#' $#o "ot e -&"o%e'. 8oe 0o%t - &oo'. Te -"te%"$t-o"$# #$"&u$&e o,

E"- ou#' e tu'-e' $ /e## $ te "$t-o"$# #$"&u$&e. T%$5e# -" te #$te tee" e$%#!

t/e"t-e - $#o $ &oo' /$! ,o% !ou"& 0eo0#e to %o$'e" te-% o%-Go". 75-ou#! $

&oo' e'u+$t-o" - 0%e'-+$te' o" $ +e%t$-" #e5e# o, te &e"e%$# /e#,$%e -" $ "$t-o".

Te 0%o#e /e" 0eo0#e '%-,t t%$-&t to te T$#u' o% ote% +oe"t$%-e - t$t te!

,$-# to t-"F $uto"oou#! $"' %e$o" t%ou& -ue.


20/32

+o"+-ou"e ,o% o"#! o #o"&. >R' /-## &et !ou -" te e"'...

2*e/$%e /e" te &%e$t >o' #et #ooe $ t-"Fe% o" t- 0#$"et. Te" $## t-"&

$%e $t %-F.2

R K$#0 W$#'o Ee%o"

78TED *9: =D=? NEA8T 1I C11 =T S:34 ?

$&$"

Te Je"-"&%$' o'ex t$te t$t te "ue% o, #ette% -" te To%$ - 4S4. T$t -

$out 1 o%e t$" !ou /-## +ou"t to'$!. 8o oe/e%e $#o"& te #-"e CZ o, te

To%$ $ '-$00e$%e'.

A"#e !ou u00oe te $uto% o, $ 'e,-"-t-5e e'-t-o" o, te T$"$F -0#! +ou#'"Mt +ou"t

-" /-+ +$e /! +o"-'e% -t 'e,-"-t-5e

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21/32

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31/32

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