understanding j krishnamurti's teaching - part: 2

Understanding

SUNDAY DIALOGUE3rd May 2015

K’s TEACHINGPart 2

KFI Cuttack Centre

KFI Cuttack Centre / Sunday Dialogue

This is the second part of the Theme

“Understanding K’s Teaching”.In the first part our exploration was around the following questions:

• Is regular group discussion better to think over K’s teachings or thinking over alone is good?

• Will it not be easier for us to understand what K is saying by telling it to others.

• After reading Krishnamurti teachings for long time now how can I best help humanity to further understand and live his teachings.

• When I am listening and watching Krishnamurti audio/videos or reading his teachings, I feel very alive, energetic and sensitive; but when I go away by myself, or am in my house or at work place, this sensitivity ceases. What to do?

So now in this second part let’s explore other solved or lingering questions which may help us to comprehend the things in a better way.


Why do we find it difficult to understand what Krishnamurti is saying?

Is his teaching only for the intellectual mass i.e. selected few or it is for all.

Q1:


Let’s discuss . . .

Krishnamurti has answered this query in a very interesting manner.

Let’s explore what he said . . . . .



Question: You say that your teachings are for all, not for any select few. If that is so, why do we find it difficult to understand you? Krishnamurti: It is not a question of understanding me. Why should you understand me? Truth is not mine, that you should understand me. You find my words difficult to understand because your minds are suffocated with ideas.

What I say is very simple. It is not for the select few; it is for anyone who is willing to try. I say that if you would free yourselves from ideas, from beliefs, from all the securities that people have built up through centuries, then you would understand life.

You can free yourselves only by questioning, and you can question only when you are in revolt - not when you are stagnant with satisfying ideas. When your minds are suffocated with beliefs, when they are heavy with knowledge acquired from books, then it is impossible to understand life.


So it is not a question of understanding me. Please - and I am not saying this with any conceit - I have found a way; not a method that you can practise, a system that becomes a cage, a prison. I have realized truth, God, or whatever name you like to give it. I say there is that eternal living reality, but it cannot be realized while the mind and heart are burdened, crippled with the idea of "I". As long as that self-consciousness, that limitation exists, there can be no realization of the whole, the totality of life.

That "I" exists as long as there are false values - false values that we have inherited or that we have sedulously created in our search for security, or that we have established as our authority in our search for comfort. But right values, living values - these you can discover only when you really suffer, when you are greatly discontented.

…….Contd……

If you are willing to become free from the pursuit of gain, then you will find them. But most of us do not want to be free; we want to keep what we have gained, either in virtue or in knowledge or in possessions; we want to keep all these. Thus burdened we try to meet life, and hence the utter impossibility of understanding it completely.

So the difficulty lies not in understanding me, but in understanding life itself; and that difficulty will exist as long as your minds are burdened with this consciousness that we call "I".

I cannot give you right values. If I were to tell you, you would make of that a system and imitate it, thus setting up but another series of false values. But you can discover right values for yourself, when you become truly an individual, when you cease to be a machine. And you can free yourself from this murderous machine of false values only when you are in great revolt.

Col.works, Vol-1, Oslo, Norway, Talk in University Hall, 5th September, 1933

…….Contd……


Friends,We have been reading or listening to

K’s audio visuals for several years but why we are not able to comprehend what he is

conveying us or even not been able to translate it into our life. Is his words are

too vague to understand.

Q2:



K even has addressed this question of ours in one of his talks.

Let’s discover what he said . . . . .



Question: : I have listened to your talks for several years, but to be frank, I have not yet grasped what you are trying to convey. Your words have always seemed vague to me.

Krishnamurti: I have answered this question I do not know how often, but if you wish I shall answer it again. Any explanation, any measure of truth must be erroneous. Truth is to be comprehended, to be discerned, not to be explained. It is, but is not to be sought after. So there cannot be one way or many ways of presenting truth. That which is presented as truth is not truth.


But then you can ask me, “What are you trying to do? If you are not giving us a graphic picture of truth, measuring for us the immeasurable, then what are you doing?”

All that I am trying to do is to help you to discern for yourself that there is no salvation outside of yourself; that no Master, no society, can save you; that no church, no ceremony, no prayer can break down your self-created limitations and restrictions; that only through your own strenuous awareness is there the comprehension of the real, the permanent; and that your mind is so cluttered up, so overheated with beliefs, ideals, wants and hopes that it is incapable of perception. Surely this is simple, clear and definite; it is not vague

…Contd…


Each one, through his own want, is creating ignorance, and that ignorance, through its volitional activities, is perpetuating itself as individuality, as the "I" process. I say that the "I" is ignorance, it has no reality, nor does it conceal anything permanent. I have said this often and explained it in many ways, but some of you do not want to think clearly, and so you cling to your hopes and satisfactions.

You want to avoid deep strenuousness; you hope that through the effort of another your conflicts, miseries and sorrows will be dissipated, and you wish that the exploiting organizations, whether religious or social, would be miraculously changed.

If you make an effort you want a result, which excludes comprehension. Then you say, “What is the point of making an effort if I don't get something out of it?” Your effort, through want, creates further limitations which destroy comprehension. The mind is caught up in this vicious circle, effort through want, which maintains ignorance; and so the "I" process becomes self-sustaining.

…Contd…


The people who have gathered money, properties, qualities, are rigid in their acquisition and are incapable of deep comprehension. They are slaves to their own want, which creates a system of exploitation. If you give thought to it, it is not difficult to understand this, but to comprehend it through action demands strenuous effort.

To some of you, what I say is empty and meaningless; to others, coming to these meetings is a habit; and a few are vitally concerned.

Some of you take one or two statements of mine, separate them from their contexts, and try to work them into your own particular system. In this there is no comprehension, and it will only lead to further confusion.

Col.Works, Vol-3, Ojai 6th Talk In The Oak Grove 10th May, 1936

…Contd…


In relation to Wisdom and Action K has said ……

“You know, wisdom is not to be bought. You cannot buy it from books. You cannot get it by listening. You may listen to me for hundreds of years, but you are not going to be wise.

What brings wisdom is action. Action is wisdom; it cannot be separated. And because we have divided action from our thought, from our emotions, from our intellectual capacity of reasoning, we are carried away by superficial things, and thereby are exploited.”

After reading Krishnamurti teachings for long time I find that I have not gone very

far in this exploration of self.Is there anything wrong in K’s teaching or

the fault lies within me?

Q3:



In one his talks Krishnamurti has given answer to that of our worry of not going far in this journey

of self-exploration.Let’s explore what he said . . . . .


Question: I have tried out many of the things you have suggested in your various talks, but I don't seem to get very far. What is wrong with you or with me?

Krishnamurti: You see, the difficulty is that we want to get "very far", we want to reach a result; we want the "more". So we experiment in order to arrive; we study, we listen, in order to compare, in order to become something.

What I say may be utterly wrong; you have to find out, not accept it. What is important in this question is, is it not?, the desire to become more, to reach far, to arrive somewhere. And so, with that motive in the background you study, you experiment, you observe yourself, you are aware of your actions.

With that hidden motive, - to progress, to achieve, to become a saint, to know more, to reach the Master, - with that hidden, subtle motive driving you, you do all; you read, you study, you inquire. And naturally, you do not get very far. So what is important is to understand that motive, that drive. Why should you get very far? Far in what? - in your knowledge, in your ambitions, in your so-called virtues, which are really not virtues at all but the becoming greater in yourself? KFI Cuttack Centre / Sunday Dialogue


You see, the difficulty is that we are so deeply ambitious. As the clerk strives to become the manager, so we want to become the Masters, the saints. We want to arrive ultimately at a state of peace.

So ambition is the motive; ambition is driving us. And instead of understanding that ambition, and putting an end to it completely, we turn our face towards becoming more and more, to reaching deeper, going very far. So we deceive ourselves, we create illusions. Obviously, the man who is ambitious is not only antisocial, destructive, but he will never understand what truth is, what God is, or whatever name you like to give to it.

So, if I may suggest, do not try to get "very far", but inquire into the motive, into the activities, of the mind that desires to go far. Why do we want this? Either we want to escape from ourselves, or we want to have influence, prestige, position, authority. If we want to escape from ourselves, any illusion is good enough.

…Contd…


And it is not a matter of time. The mind is the instrument of achievement; and with the mind, which is the result of time, one cannot understand that which is beyond measure, which is not vague, not mysticism as opposed to occultism - a very convenient division of the thoughtless. To understand this motive, this drive to become something, is what is important; and that we can observe in our daily actions, in our everyday thought, - this urge to be something, to dominate, to assert. It is there that the truth lies, not away from it. It is there that we must find it.

Col.works, Vol-6,LONDON, 2ND PUBLIC TALK, 8TH APRIL 1952

…Contd…


K has talked a lot about the importance of awareness, observation and alert mind.

But how one can have that alert mind and do observation has to play any role in this

regard.

Q4:Let’s discuss . . .

Is there a method to have that alert mind. Does it requires time and energy to have that mind.

K in a simple way has stated as to how can one have a alert mind.

Let’s explore what he has said . . . . .



Question: How does one get that alert mind which you talk about?

Krishnamurti: You cannot get it by a method. I have explained it very clearly. You cannot get it through any system. Because if you have a system, you are caught again in the pattern and therefore you are not free.

You can have that alert mind only when you observe yourself, when you observe the trees, the birds, the people, the ways of your thought, your feelings, how you sit, how you yawn, how you eat. Then out of that observation, your mind becomes sensitive. Then when you are sensitive, there is feeling. You cannot stimulate feeling by a system, by saying, "Do this, and you will get it".

The Col- Works, Vol-14,RAJGHAT, 3RD PUBLIC TALK, 8TH DECEMBER 1963


So Observation plays a vital role in getting a alert and sensitive mind.

But the question is to observe oneself or to be aware one needs tremendous energy.

How is one to get that energy?


No doubt it requires enormous energy to observe and dissipation of energy is also another fact of

our life. But K has addressed this as what to be done in

this field. Let’s explore what he has stated in this

regard . . . . .



Questioner: It requires a good deal of energy to observe oneself. How is one to get that energy? Krishnamurti: The question is: Every man needs a great deal of energy to observe himself. From where is he to get this energy? How will energy come for every man to observe himself?

The energy of a scientist is understandable, because he is objectively working at something, putting his heart in it. He is ambitious, he is greedy, he is conscious of everything that is going on. He divides himself - that is, he escapes from his daily life into his laboratory, and there he is energetic. But we are talking of a different kind of energy, aren't we?

It is obvious that we need a tremendous lot of energy to observe the whole of the psychological structure of a human being. Now, how do we get this energy?


Obviously, the first obvious thing is not to escape. The moment you escape from the fact of what you are, to move away from it is the lessening of this energy. The moment you cease completely to escape from the actual of what you are, there is greater energy. When you say, "I must be that", you escape.

The fact is: you are violent. When you say, "I must not be violent, I must be non-violent", you escape from the fact; and as you have escaped from the fact, you are lessening your energy. When you are confronted with the fact, any attempt on your part to translate what you see of that fact according to what you already know, or to suppress it, or to change it, is an escape; it is a deterioration of that energy.

Any approach to the fact of what you are actually, through any opinion, judgment, evaluation, condemnation and so on, takes away your energy. A mind has energy only when it is completely with the fact and does not try to do something about that fact.

The Col- Works, Vol-14,RAJGHAT 1ST PUBLIC TALK 24TH NOVEMBER 1963

…Contd…


What is the essence or main spring of K’s teaching.



Krishnamurti: That would be rather difficult to put in a few words. As I have tried to explain, listening is an art. Most of us don't listen, because what we hear we translate according to our pleasure and pain, according to our likes and dislikes, according to our conflicts and the formulations of what we already know.

Nor do we generally see anything, because what we actually or visually see is interpreted in this way or in that. We may look at a flower botanically, but very few ever look at a flower non-botanically - which is the only way one can see the essence, the beauty, the whole loveliness of the flower.


In the same way, your perception of the significance of what is being said depends on how you have listened to all these talks. You can't possibly understand by merely picking up a few ideas, a few concepts or opinions. If that is what you have done, then I am afraid these talks will have very little meaning. Either you listen to the whole, or you hear nothing at all.

And if you have listened to the whole of what we have been talking about, then you will see for yourself the essence of it; you will never ask me what is the essence.

This is not just a clever way of turning the table; on you, sir. It is an actual fact. You cannot hold the waters of the sea in a garment, or capture the wind in your fist. But you can listen to the deep murmuring of the storm, to the violence of the sea; you can feel the enormous power of the wind. its beauty and its destructiveness. For you must destroy totally the old for something new to be.

end

of Part 2

KFI CUTTACK CENTRE

understanding j krishnamurti's teaching - part: 2

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