assange nasrallah broadcast interview

8/2/2019 Assange Nasrallah Broadcast Interview

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Julian Assange Interview with Sayyid Nasrallah

February 2012 -[JA Voiceover] Im Julian Assange. Editor of Wikileaks. We haveexposed the worlds secrets, attacked by the powerful. For 500 days now I have beendetained without charge, but that hasnt stopped us. Today we are on a quest for

revoliotunary ideas that can change the world tomorrow.

This week I am joined by a guest from a secret location in Lebanon. He is one of themost extraordinary figures in the Middle East. He has fought many armed battles withIsrael and is now caught up in an international struggle over Syria. I want to know:why is he called a freedom fighter by millions and at the same time a terrorist bymillions of others. This is his first interview in the west since the 2006 Israel-Lebanonwar. His party, Hezbollah, is a member of the Lebanese government. He is its leader,Sayyid Hasan Nasrallah.

JA:Are you ready? What is your vision for the future of Israel and Palestine? What

would Hezbollah consider victory? And if you had that victory , would you disarm?

SHN:The state of Israel is not a... is an illegal state, it's a state that was established on thebasis of occupying the lands of others, or usurping the lands of others, of controllingby force the lands of others, of committing massacres against the Palestinians whowere expelled, and these include Muslims and Christians too, so for this reasonjustice is... justice remains... remains on the side where even if ten years passes theprogress of time does not turn justice into... does not negate justice. If it's my house...if your house... and I go and occupy it by force it doesn't become mine in 50 or 100years just because Im stronger than you and I've been able to occupy your house,

that doesn't give me... that doesn't legalise my ownership of your house. At least, thisis our ideological view and our legal view and we believe that Palestine belongs tothe Palestinian people. But if we wanted to combine ideology and law, and politicalrealities, and relate it on the ground, we should say that the only solution is we don'twant to kill anyone, we don't want to treat anyone unjustly, we want justice to berestored to the... and the only solution is the establishment of one state - one stateon the land on Palestine in which the Muslims and the Jews and the Christians live inpeace in a democratic state. Any other solution will simply not be viable, and it won'tbe sustained.

JA:Israel says that Hezbollah has fired rockets into Israel at civilian areas - is that true?

SHN:Throughout the past years, even since 1948 when the state of Israel was created onthe land of Palestine, Israeli forces have been shelling civilians, Lebanese civiliansand Lebanese towns and Lebanese villages. In the resistance years, that's between1982 until... 92. After ten years of resistance we started reacting - but purely andonly and strictly to stop Israel shelling our civilians. So then, 1993 there was anunderstanding, it was indirect between the resistance and Israel and thatunderstanding was reaffirmed in 1996, and that understanding makes clear that bothsides avoid shelling civilians and we always used to say 'if you don't shell our villagesand towns, then we have nothing to do with your villages and your towns'. So, this

method Hezbollah resorted to it after long years of aggression against Lebanesecivilians and its aim is purely to make a kind of deterrent balance to prevent Israel

JA interview with Nasrallah


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from killing Lebanese civilians.

JA:According to WikiLeaks cables coming out of the US Embassy in Lebanon , you saidthat you were shocked about how corrupt Hezbollah members are becoming . Theysay that you said 'what have we become' , because some Hezbollah members weredriving around in SUVs , big cars, wearing silk robes , buying takeaway food . Is thisa natural consequence of Hezbollah moving into electoral politics within Lebanon?

SHN:First, what they said about this phenomenon is not correct. This is part of therumours that they wanted to use to discredit Hezbollah and distort its image. This isanyway part of the media war against us. You know they talk about us, they say thatwe operate, you know, mafia organisations and, er, with drug trafficking organisationsaround the world, which even though in our religion and in our morality this isabsolutely one of the biggest bans - that is something we fight against. They say a lot

of things that are baseless and I would want to affirm to you first that this thing is notcorrect. Secondly, what they said recently, I say it is just a very... it is a limitedphenomenon and the reason for it is that there are some, you know, rich familieswhich were not... which in the past were not supporting Hezbollah or supporting itsline or its ideology or its programme. You know, after 2000, when the resistance inLebanon and Hezbollah - and Hezbollah's the main component of the resistance -but they managed to liberate south Lebanon, that was seen as a kind of miracle, itcreated a great shock in Lebanese society because how could a small group like thisjust stand for 33 days facing the biggest, the most powerful army in the regionwithout being defeated? So there are groups in society which started consideringthemselves pro-Hezbollah or supporters of Hezbollah and they come from, you know,wealthy background that live a life consistent with their financial capabilities so, you

know, it's...it's, you know, they say this phenomenon moved to Hezbollah but it is nottrue - I say this really confident and with the information I have available to me - thisis not really a phenomenon that is there that needs to be remedied.

JA:Why have you supported the Arab Spring in Tunisia, Yemen... ... Egypt and other

countries but not in Syria?

SHN:Clear reasons. First, it's... Originally... first, as in principle we don't want to interfere inthe interiors of Arab States - this has always been our policy. There have beendevelopments in the Arab world... have been very serious and very important to an

extent nobody, no movement, no party can just not take a position regarding them. InSyria everybody knows that Bashar al-Assad's regime has supported the resistancein Lebanon, supported the resistance in Palestine, it has not backed down in the faceof Israeli and American pressure so it is a regime which serves the Palestinian causevery well. What we call for in Syria is to negot... is dialogue, is reform, and for thereforms to be carried out, because the alternative to that, because of the diversitiesinside Syria, because of the sensitivity of the situations in Syria, the alternative is topush Syria into civil war, and this is exactly what America and Israel want for Syria.

JA:Sayyed, over the weekend over 100 people were killed in Homs including ajournalist I had dinner with a year ago , Mary Colvin . I can understand your logic insaying that we should not just destroy a country for no purpose and it is much betterto reform a country if possible . But does Hezbollah have a red line? If there are



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100,000 people killed , one million people killed , when will Hezbollah say that that isenough?

SHN:From the beginning of the events in Syria, we've had contacts - constant contacts -with the Syrian leadership, and we have spoken as friends, giving each other adviceabout the importance of carrying out reforms right from the beginning. I personallyfound that President Assad was very willing to carry out radical and importantreforms and this used to reassure us, er, regarding the positions that we took. Onmore than one occasion, publicly, I used to give speeches and say this - and say thisexactly - and in my... in my meetings with various Lebanese and Arab and otherpolitical leaders I used to tell them the same thing. That I am confident that PresidentAssad wants reform and he will carry out reforms - realistic, genuine reforms - but theopposition has to agree to a dialogue. I'll say more than this - this is the first time Isay this - we contacted even elements of the opposition to encourage them and tofacilitate the process of dialogue with the regime. But these parties, they rejected

dialogue and right from the beginning we have had a regime that is willing to undergoreforms and prepared for dialogue. On the other side, you have an opposition whichis not prepared for dialogue and is... it's not prepared to accept any... the reforms, allit wants is to bring down the regime, so this is a problem... Another thing, what ishappening in Syria has to be... we have to look at it with two eyes, not just with oneeye. The armed groups in Syria have killed very many civilians.

JA:Where do you see the Syrian situation going? What should we do to stop the killing inSyria? You have spoken about dialogue, and dialogue is very easy to talk about , butare there practical measures to stop... ...the bloodshed occurring in Syria?

SHN:In the previous question there is something I didn't... I didn't mention, but I'll add it tothis answer. There's certainly states that offer money, that provide money, thatprovide weapons, which are encouraging fighting inside Syria, and some of these areArab... Arab countries, and there are non-Arab countries as well. This is from oneside. There is a very serious situ, er, issue as well, which is confirmed, and we allheard Dr Ayman al-Zawahiri, the al-Qaeda leader, when he... when he called forfighting in Syria... for... for... to arms in Syria, so there are fighters from Al-Qaedawho have arrived in Syria, and others that are... that are following them, from variouscountries, and they are trying to turn Syria into a battleground. So countries thatprovide weapons and money would be able to get the opposition groups that they aresupporting to sit down at the table and resolve things politically. I said this a few days

ago that certain Arab countries are prepared... are prepared to have ten years... to gointo a political dialect with Israel for tens of years non-stop - despite everything thatIsrael did in the region - but they won't give one year or two years for a political - oreven just a few months - for a political solution with Syria, and this just doesn't makeany sense and it's unfair.

JA:Would you be willing to mediate between these opposition groups and the Assad

regime? People trust that you are not an agent of the United States or Saudi orIsrael , but will they trust that you are not an agent of the Assad regime? If they canbe convinced, will you accept to broker the peace?

SHN:The experience of 30 years of Hezbollah's life proves that it is a friend of Syria, not



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an agent of Syria. You know, there have been periods of Lebanon's political lifeduring which our relationship with Syria was not good. Er, we had problems betweenus, there were problems between us, and now those used to benefit from the politicaland influence of Syria and Lebanon, they are now the ones who are... who are...opposing us whereas we used to be under pressure from Syria. Look, we are friends,we are not agents. The very segments of the... of the Syrian opposition know thatand all the political forces in the region know that as well. We are friends. That's thefirst point. Secondly, when I say we support a political solution then most certainlywe'll be willing to exert any effort or any contribution to achieve that sort of politicalsolution. In the past I said to you that we contacted some parties but they refused toget into a dialogue with the regime. So any group that wants dialogue with the regimeand would like us to be... to be go-betweens, we'd be more than happy to mediatebut we are asking others to make their efforts to er, to er, to create a political solution.

JA:I believe that these opposition groups... [ interpreter translates] would findHezbollah's role more credible... if you said to the Syrian regime of Assad... that we

have a red line. Is the Syrian regime free to do what it wants as far as Hezbollah isconcerned? Or are there some things that Hezbollah will not accept?

SHN:Yes, for sure, I think that President Bashar al-Assad has red lines, and our brothers

in Syria have red lines, and we reaffirmed these red lines that we should all abideby... but the problem is that there is fighting going on and accordingly when one sideretreats, the other one advances. So long as the doors to a political solution areslammed closed then there's going... then this is going to continue because even ifone party retreats, the other one will advance.

JA:

Tunisia has declared that it will not recognise the Syrian regime anymore. Why hasTunisia taken this strong move to disconnect itself from Syria?

SHN:I believe that the position that was taken in Tunis or elsewhere was based either on

incomplete [inaudible] I won't say incorrect, I would say incomplete evidence. Ofcourse, there is even mistaken, incorrect information which was presented to Araband Western governments when it was told... when they were told that the regime isgoing to fall just within a matter of weeks, so a lot of them wanted to be partners tothis anticipated victory. I dont conceal also my belief that perhaps the reason forsome of these positions taken... because the young new governments have got...

face tough tests and they believe that now is not the time to start getting intoarguments with the US and the West and things like that and it is better to appeasethem and go along with them in a lot of these issues.

JA:You have made an international media network. The United States is blocking Al-

Manar from broadcasting into the US. At the same time United States declares thatit is a bastion of free speech. Why do you think the US government is so scared ofAl-Manar? They want to be able to tell people that Hezbollah is a terrorist... is aterrorist organisation, it kills and it murders, but they won't let people listen to us. Forexample, if there was a just trial then at the very least the defendant should have anopportunity to defend themselves, but the... but the US administration... We areaccused but we dont even have that very basic right, which is to defend ourselves,and to give our argument to the peoples of the world. So, they are preventing this



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voice from reaching.

JA:Sayyed, as a leader in war , how did you manage to keep your people togetherunder the face of enemy fire?

SHN:The main thing as far as we're concerned is that we had an objective, we specifiedour objective. This objective is a human and a moral and faith-based and patrioticone. There is no debate about it. This objective is to liberate our land fromoccupation. This is the... this is the original reason, the real reason why Hezbollahwas established in the first place and there's no dispute about this among Lebanese.We, we did not want to be... we did not want to get into government, we did notcompete for political power. The first time we entered the government, the Lebanesegovernment, was in 2005 and the aim then was not in order to have a share of powerbut to protect the... to protect the back of the resistance so that this government, thegovernment that was set up in 2000, wouldn't make any incorrect mistake against the

resistance, we had fears of that kind, and so when you have an objective, a correctobjective, and I make it my priority and I avoid all other rivalries for the sake of thisobjective, then I can keep everyone close together and keep co-operating to achievethis objective, and until this moment we are... we avoid getting involved in internalsquabbles as far as we can. You can see there are many, many issues in Lebanonabout which there are huge arguments and differences. We... we avoid sometimeseven expressing our view or taking a position so as not to get involved in quarrelswith people. Our priority is still the liberation of our land, and the protection ofLebanon from the Israeli threat because we believe that Lebanon, it still faces athreat.

JA:I want to go back to when you were a boy . You were a son of a greengrocer . Whatwas your first memory as a boy in this home in Lebanon , and did these earlymemories affect your political thought?

SHN:Naturally, when I was a child, when I was a little child, I was born and lived... andlived for 15 years since I was born in a neighbourhood in East Beirut. Thatneighbourhood had certain characteristics and naturally the environment leaves...leaves an effect on one's personality. One of the characteristics of thisneighbourhood was that it was a poor area. It used to have Muslims, Shi'a and therewere Sunni Muslims, there were Christians, there were Armenians, there were Kurds,

and also there were Lebanese and Palestinians as well, both, so I was born and livedin this very mixed and varied environment. So naturally, this made... this made mesort of alert and concerned about Palestine and the injustice which the Palestinianpeople had been subjected to, so I had a very early awareness of that because thePalestinians who were in our neighbourhood, they were all expelled from their towns,from Haifa, from Acre, from Jerusalem, from Ramallah. These were... this was theenvironment that I was born in and brought up in.

JA:I read a rather amusing joke of yours about Israeli encryption and decryption. This isinteresting to me because I am an expert in encryption and WikiLeaks is underextensive surveillance - do you remember this joke?

SHN:



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Yes, I was speaking about... about how simplicity can defeat complexity. Forexample, the Israeli forces in Lebanon they use very sophisticated technology,they're in their weapons or in their communications. The resistance on the other handis a popular resistance and most of the young men in it are just ordinary village boysand they come from farms and small towns and they come from agriculturalcommunity. And they... they speak on ordinary walkie-talkies - there's no... there's nocomplication about it, they are very simple devices - but when they... when they usecode they simply use the kind of language that... the kind of slang that's used in theirvillages and among their families, so anyone listening... anyone listening sort ofbehind the surveillance devices and having computers trying to... trying to decodethis kind of language, they will never be able... they won't easily be able to find outwhat this means unless they have lived for years among these villages. So, forexample, they use certain words - just the village kind of terms - you know, thecooking pot, the donkey, even village sayings, yeah, sort of 'the father of the chicken'or something like this, you know, no Israeli intelligence agent or computer analyst isgoing to understand who the father of the chicken is and why they call him the fatherof the chicken... But that's not going to do you any good in WikiLeaks, by the way!

Using this [laughter] dialect!

JA:I'll just make one very provocative question to you... , but it is not political. You have

fought against a hegemony of the United States . Isn't Allah or the notion of a Godthe ultimate superpower? And shouldn't you as a freedom fighter also seek toliberate people from the totalitarian concept... of a monotheistic God? [Interpreterdoesn't quite understand how to translate]

SHN:

We believe that God Almighty is the creator of this existence and of human beingsand of all creatures. When he created us he gave us capabilities, he gave us thesebodies, he gave us psychological and spiritual capabilities - we call it instinct. Peoplein isolation just... in isolation from religious laws, just they have an instinct - but theyhave an instinct to tell the truth, they have an instinct... their instinct tells them thattruth is good, that lying is bad, that justice is good, that injustice is bad, that helpingpoor people and unjustly treated people and defending them is a good thing, butattacking others and shedding their blood, this is horrible. The issue of resistingAmerican hegemony, or resisting occupation, or resisting any attack against us oragainst our people, this is a moral issue and an instinctive one and a human one.

SHN:

Now God also wanted it like this so, in this sense, moral and human principles areconsistent with the law of the heavens because the... the Abrahamic religions did notcome up with anything that contradicts the mind or contradicts the human instinct,because the creator of the religion is the same as the creator of the humans, and thetwo things are totally consistent. Whenever in any country, even if in a house or in acountry, if there are two leaders that is recipe for ruin, so how could the universe lastfor billions of years in such beautiful harmony and have more than one God? If therewas more than one God it would have been torn to pieces, so we do have theevidence. We don't... we don't... we don't fight to impose a religious belief onanybody. Abraham, the prophet Abraham, was always in favour of dialogue andshowing evidence, and we're all... we're all followers of that prophet.

JA:Thank you Sayyed.


assange nasrallah broadcast interview

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