T H E U L T I M A T E C O M I C S E X P E R I E N C E !

BATMAN, FLASH, ROBIN, ORION, SUPERMAN, WONDER WOMAN TM & ©2003 DC COMICS • TARZAN TM & ©2003 ERB INC.CAPTAIN AMERICA, VISION, WASP, THOR, IRON MAN TM & ©2003 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

GREA

TEST

STORIES NEVER TOLD

JLA // AVENGERS THEN & NOW!

ROU

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Pencil art byJack Kirby!

BEYO

ND CAPES

DC’s & Marvel’sTarzan!

OFF

MY CHEST

with CarmineInfantino!

December 2003

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vs. M

ARVE

L:KI

RBY!

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EZ! K

UBER

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USCE

MA!

Celebrating The

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’70s, ’80s, & Today!

TM

time and experience. Being on the other end when

people are now showing you their more amateurish,

untrained, underdeveloped stuff, you have to also

find that same means of encouraging them to get

better. And sometimes, you do have to be a

little cruel to be kind.

MW: I had gone to the High School of Art

and Design to be an artist and in fact,

became an art teacher. My Bachelor’s

Degree in college is Bachelor of Fine Arts.

And that was exactly what they did. You

would present a drawing and they’d rip it

apart—only the parts that are bad because

every teacher in Art and Design, unlike most

schools, had to have been professional

artists. I mean, Bernie Krigstein was one of

my teachers. That’s the level of craftsmanship

at the school at that time. And because of

that, they had no patience for ego getting in

the way. They know that, certainly, at fifteen,

you ain’t got it. (laughs) And they pushed and

pushed and pushed, and the people who give

up don’t deserve to be in the business

because they’re never going to make it. The

first time you get criticism, if you fold,

“Goodbye.”

GP: For me, it was a bit of a jolt since I

never had an art lesson. So other than the

rah-rah complimentary cheers of my friends

and family, I never really got the critique

from a professional artist. I mean, before

8 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

“The people who give up

don’t deserve to be in the business

because they’re never going to make

it. The first time you get criticism,

if you fold, ‘Goodbye.’”

—Marv Wolfman

D C v s . M a r v e l • B A C K I S S U E • 9

Marv, I guess, I took my stuff to a convention and Neal

Adams was the first person to, basically, put me up on

the cross. And as Marv pointed out about not letting

ego get in the way, when I saw Neal a year after I

turned pro, he was the first one to say,

“Congratulations. You made it. If you could take what

I dish out, then you’ve got, at least, the heart to take

the next step further.” Obviously, he can’t predict the

amount of improvement in the artist, but [he saw] that I

want[ed] to improve as an artist.

MW: Exactly, and that’s the vital part of it all, is the

willingness to go back and say, “Okay, either I’m going

to show him because he’s an idiot, or I’m going to show

him because I can do it.” And either way, it gets the

job done. It really doesn’t matter which way you do it

(laughs), it gets the job done. And the stuff I remember

that was wrong about his work—I mean, George can

probably tell you a lot better because it was on his side

—the stuff I remember were fairly simple things, like

perspective and anatomy. Those were learnable things,

and those were the parts that I saw were wrong. It

wasn’t, “Well, this story is all wrong.” I recall just the

straightforward things that there are rules for.

AM: Perspective and backgrounds.

GP: That’s it. Like he was probably after me in the

anatomy of the human body in a perspective shot.

One of the things which I also admire in any person

when they show a portfolio is at least to attempt a

difficult shot, as opposed to taking the easy one. I

might have gotten it wrong, but that, as Marv pointed

out, can be fixed with a simple knowledge of the

mechanics of it. But the fact that if you tried for a

down shot or an up shot, difficult angles, which some-

times are greater than you can achieve as far as your

graphic ability at the time, that shows that you’re

thinking, you’re telling a story the most dynamic way

possible, as Marv said. I mean, I don’t know why it’s

Marv Wolfman - Man of CharactersA portrait by George of his frequent collaborator

shows Marv alongside several icons to which he

helped to give distinctive voice.

Superman, Titans characters, Omega Men characters, Vigilante, Baron WintersTM & © 2003 DC Comics. Nova, Black Cat TM & © 2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.Sable TM & © 2003 Mike Grell.

A Spooky Little Girl Like You! (left)

Raven billows from a plume of smoke, courtesy of

this fan-commissioned drawing.

Raven TM & © 2003 DC Comics

1 0 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

easy, because it is an instinct with me, but it is some-

thing—which I thank Marv and all the other people

who pointed out what kept my career glowing—

that the art will come, the drawing ability will come.

The storytelling is what makes comic books distinctive

from the other art forms.

MW: As a fan, before I even knew the first thing about

any of that, I looked at the early Barry Smith stuff and

could not understand why Marvel was using him

(chuckles) until I saw Barry’s pencils at Roy Thomas’

house one day. And I went, “Oh, my God. This is a

completely different artist.” They were able to spot

why those early Daredevils and such had a professional

quality to them.

GP: Yeah, before [Smith] had even started on Conan,

there was something there, and there aren’t a lot of

people who have that. There are people, every so often,

that you look at and you go, “This guy’s going to be

phenomenal.” And the only thing that stops them

from being phenomenal is themselves because no matter

what is told to you by anyone else, if you’re going to be

good, you have to believe in yourself, and nothing else

matters. And all the editors who put you down, if they

actually succeed in putting you down, then you

never really wanted it in the first place.

AM: George, I know in many of your early pre-comicsIt’s Clobberin’ Time!George Pérez began to emerge as a fan favorite

during his late 1970s stint on Fantastic Four.

Fantastic Four TM & © 2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

“No matter what is told toyou by anyone else, if you’re goingto be good, you have to believe inyourself, and nothing else matters.”—George Pérez

D C v s . M a r v e l • B A C K I S S U E • 1 1

work, you did, for instance, Teen Titans sample pages

and things like that. So had you read Marv’s work before?

Did you know him as anything other than just the

editor who ripped your work to shreds? (chuckles)

GP: Of course. I had read Marv’s work before. And

again, when I did the Teen Titans sample pages, I was

just drawing for my pleasure because I just drew. So they

were never meant as samples to show to anyone as a

job interview, just something I enjoyed drawing. And,

of course, I remember Marv and Len [Wein] when

they were breaking into the industry. I remember I was

a big fan of Marv’s [Tomb of] Dracula work later and

truth to tell, a lot of the super-hero stuff kind of blurs

in my mind because people were kind of jumping

around a lot there. But I was quite intimate—I knew as

far as, like, who the Teen Titans were. I think I might

have seen one of Marv’s first works, I don’t know.

MW: It was one of my earlier jobs.

GP: Was it? I just remembered the one story. I think it

was drawn by Bill Draut.

MW: Yeah, it was.

GP: And it was a bore. These characters got beat easy.

(laughs) Yeah, but obviously, when I finally got into

comics, Marv was already established as both a writer

and an editor. So he definitely was one of the elite, to

me. I mean, I was working across the street from DC

Comics as a bank teller and I think he just wrote articles.

Allan Asherman came in and he gave me his bank book

to make a withdrawal, or whatever, and I said, “Are

you the Allan Asherman?” Everyone that worked at

comics was a god (laughs), and I reacted that way.

MW: Allan’s still working up at DC.

GP: He is still at DC? Well, I didn’t know that.

MW: He’s run the library for the last God-knows-how-

many years. Fifteen years, maybe more.

GP: Oh, God. I’ve got to go into those offices again.

(laughs)

AM: And he still banks across the street. (laughs) You

mentioned the Dracula material and it strikes a chord

in my memory that maybe the two of you actually

talked about working on some horror material

together at some point.

GP: Oh, not formally that I can remember. After we

had both started doing the [New Teen] Titans, we

had talked about doing something in the

supernatural vein as an independent [comic]. But

I don’t think Marvel ever really approached us on

working on something specifically horrific, or horrible,

in the horror genre. I don’t think I was right for it at

the time. I mean, at that point, I wouldn’t have

known how to draw a shadowy scene if I spilled my

page with ink. (laughs)

MW: The closest we ever came to talking about any-

thing that had a horror bent to it was a graphic novel

which was as much super-hero as horror, called Janus.

GP: Janus, right.

MW: And that was, essentially, the closest that we

had ever discussed that. But that combined horror and

sword-and-sorcery, more than anything.

AM: Now, beyond editor and artist, you eventually

worked together on Fantastic Four. What about that,

Marv? Did you ask for George as the artist at that point?

MW: I have no memory. George might.

GP: At that point, I was already a regular artist on

Fantastic Four. I think it was one of those things that

they were assigning the annuals and Marv got that

particular one. Until DC, that and a short chapter of

What If? with Nova was the only time Marv and I ever

worked as writer-artist.

Kid Flash TM & © 2003 DC Comics.

D C v s . M a r v e l • B A C K I S S U E • 1 9

pull you back creatively. And once you start being pulled

back, you stop thinking as wildly, and as abstractly, as

you would have otherwise. I know that certainly hap-

pened to me later on in The Titans when I was no longer

the editor. Eventually, George and I—fairly quickly, actu-

ally—became the editors of the book.

GP: Right. And to give Marv full credit there, Marv was

actually offered editorship of the book, but he didn’t

want to be in a situation where instead of being part-

ners, he was my boss. And he offered me the editorship

because of that and I always appreciated that incredible

feeling of solidarity and friendship that we had during

the course of the book, which when you consider the

history of comics, is not as common as we’d like it to be.

Beyond the creative, this was a friction-free existence,

as partners on the Teen Titans book. Even when I

resigned off the book, it was definitely not because

of any personal problems, but the fact I needed to

go on to other things. Marv was sitting next to me

when I announced my resignation from the series.

And I cherish the amount of growth that I had,

working with Marv.

MW: Well, thank you. You know, it’s fairly simple

when you’re working with someone you both like per-

sonally and believe in, in terms of the quality of

their work. Maybe it wasn’t common at the time—

maybe it’s a little bit more now—but I believed George

was a true partner in creating the Titans, as opposed to

a partner in name only. Sometimes it takes a while to

think past systems that have always been in place to

do the right thing. I know the very first time that I

“George so imprinted a physical presencefor each character…by the time he was done with the book, nobody

else was able to make the Titans actually feel like

they were the Titans,” observes Marv Wolfman.

Teen Titans and all associated characters TM & © 2003 DC Comics.

2 0 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

started to do that was with Ross Andru, where we

split the plotting fees later.

AM: And that was on what book?

MW: [The Amazing] Spider-Man. In the old days, the

writer would take all the credit and all the money, and

I don’t think that’s fair if you’re splitting the work-

load. If the writer is doing the entire plot, and just sub-

mitting it to the artist, that’s different. But if you’re

actually working the stories out together, as George

and I did, then the money should be split. And

therefore, the editing should be split as well. You

know, the whole thing should be a partnership, rather

than one person calling the shots. If you’re doing it

right, and if you’re doing it with the right person...

GP: And thanks to Marv, as Marv said, he would get

his plotting fee and give half of it, obviously, to Ross

[on Spider-Man], or often to me. Since then, that

particular bookkeeping breakdown has been applied

in the industry. But Marv did it before there was a

structure. And again, as much as this sounds like we’re

just two guys, a mutual admiration society here, it is

genuine. I mean, Marv did stuff that in this industry,

you don’t hear as much about. Obviously, the

negative stuff is always the fun stuff you hear about.

MW: Oh, yeah.

GP: But Marv has been a true mensch in every endeavor

I’ve ever worked with him. Even during times we

both had our personal problems because we both had

gone through divorces.

MW: Oh, yeah. And painful ones.

GP: And those were the hard times when we stayed

friends the entire time.

MW: Yes.

“If the character’s speaking…and [Marv] can’t see himself saying those words

out loud, he doesn’t have him say it,” notes the

artist of his New Teen Titans partner.

Teen Titans and all associated characters TM & © 2003 DC Comics.

5 0 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

feature

rdThis section: Avengers and all associated characters TM & © 2003 Marvel Characters, Inc. Justice League and all associated characters TM & ©2003 DC Comics.

D C v s . M a r v e l • B A C K I S S U E • 5 1

When TitansClash!The Original JLA/Avengers Crossover

When TitansClash!by Michae l Eury

r

It was a Friday evening in 1976, during my freshman year at East

Carolina University (alma mater of Sandra Bullock and Scream scribe/Dawson’s

Creek creator Kevin Williamson) in Greenville, North Carolina (go Pirates!).

“Benny” (I’ll call him “Benny” because that’s his name), a dorm buddy from the

cockroach-infested campus prison appropriately named Aycock Hall, and I, then

known as “Mickey,” traipsed down “the hill” to the nearby Qwik-Pik store. Benny’s

mission was clear: Buy a six-pack and par-tay, but my taste buds were craving the

week’s latest comics—or at least as many as I could find. Back then, comics shops

were a rarity (there was a comics/sci-fi specialty shop in town, a pulpy wonderland

owned by Charles Lawrence, but I had yet to locate it), and readers embarked upon

weekly scavenger hunts through convenience marts, drugstores, Mom ‘n’ Pop

groceries, and newsstands in hopes of finding their four-color favorites. I meticu-

lously examined each row of the Qwik-Pik’s comic-book spin rack, its new releases

interspersed between titles from a week or two ago, already dog-eared and

mangled by kids and yellowed by sun exposure through a nearby window. As I

dug for the latest treasures, Benny found a gold mine of his own—a sale on Pabst

Blue Ribbon!—and scanned the magazines while waiting for me to complete

my inspection.

“Hey, Mick, there’s a big funnybook over here,” he called.

I glanced across the aisle to see what he was talking about, and my jaw dropped.

Oh.

My.

God.

It was Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man!

This tabloid-sized best-seller co-published by DC and Marvel Comics, cover-

blurbed as “The Greatest Superhero Team-Up of All Time,” was the comics biz’s

first major event, making headlines as it united two fierce publishing rivals and

their two flagship characters. Today, cross-company crossovers are common-

place—we’ve seen Batman/Daredevil, Hulk vs. Superman, Batman/Tarzan, Spider-

Man/Gen13, and JLA/Witchblade, to name just a few (heck, I even co-edited two

Dark Horse/DC mini-series, Batman vs. Predator II and Superman vs. Aliens)—but in

1976, nothing could top the excitement of Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man.

Benny was left to his own devices that evening—I had reading to do!

© 2003 Marvel Characters, Inc. ©2003 DC Comics.

f

d5 2 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

Despite the runaway success of Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man, it took five

years before the companies reconnected. In 1981, Marvel and DC released two

additional crossovers, both published in the same oversized format as the 1976

Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man book: a Superman/Spider-Man sequel handled

by Marvel, and the DC-steered Batman vs. the Incredible Hulk. Both were greeted by

overwhelming commercial and critical acclaim, and DC and Marvel—then edito-

rially helmed by Dick Giordano and Jim Shooter, respectively—launched plans to

do more. The result: Marvel and DC Present, a comic-book-sized, irregularly pub-

lished series utilizing then-emerging offset printing, providing richer, more vivid

colors on a brighter paper stock. It was agreed that the production of each of the

crossovers would alternate between one publisher and the other, with each com-

pany appointing a co-editor; the company not producing the given crossover

would distribute the project. Instead of continuing single-character pairings with

their next outings, the publishers targeted meetings (and clashes) between their

most popular super-teams: the Justice League of America and the Avengers, and

the New Teen Titans and the X-Men.

The Only Man for the Job

At the time, artist George Pérez had ascended to fan-favorite status through his

detailed rendering of DC’s hottest book, The New Teen Titans. He’d gotten his start

at Marvel in the 1970s, cutting his teeth on minor strips like “Man-Wolf” in

Creatures on the Loose and “Sons of the Tiger” in The Deadly Hands of Kung-Fu before

graduating to Fantastic Four and The Avengers, the latter of which experienced a

renaissance of quality and popularity thanks to George’s enthusiastic pencils. By

1980, Pérez was illustrating DC’s Justice League of America as well as Marvel’s

She-Pow!Panel detail from Pérez’s original JLA/Avengers pencils. © 2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.

ti

me

li

ne

s

A particularly

energetic battle

page. This truly

bizarre issue revolved

around a world

(micro-sized)

inhabited completely by Universal Studios’

monsters of the 1930s and ’40s: Frankenstein,

the Wolfman, Dracula, the Mummy, and the

like. Special note should be made of Jack’s

version of Olsen’s and Superman’s faces;

both looking pretty dang

fantastic to me.

DC had them redrawn

by Murphy Anderson (as

shown at left). Which do

you think is better?

Kirby was always

ahead of his time, and while he couldn’t

get the hang of drawing Superman’s “S”

symbol (requiring it to be redrawn as well),

his highly stylized version appears to be a

precursor to the version Alex Ross used in

the 1990s hit Kingdom Come.

6 2 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

by David “Hambone” Hamilton wi th John Morrow

JIM

MY

OL

SE

N #

14

31

971

feature

Superman, Jim

my O

lsen TM &

© 2003 D

C C

omics.

D C v s . M a r v e l • B A C K I S S U E • 6 3

ti

me

li

ne

s

Here’s Jack in the late 1970s; to his right is his one-tim

e assistant M

ark Evanier, and peeking over his head is Teen Titans

scribe Marv W

olfman.

(Photo courtesy of Shel Dorf.)

Splash page from “The Death Wish of Terrible Turpin” (actually page five of the issue),

showcasing one of Jack’s more endearing creations, Lightray (with Orion). This story brought back a lot

of humanistic qualities of self-sacrifice and courage—echoing back to Jack and Stan’s (Lee) Fantastic Four

#51, “This Man... This Monster,” one of the ten favorite Lee/Kirby stories ever published at the House of

Ideas (as often voted upon in fan polls since the 1960s). Jack’s plotting/writing shined like a super-nova

when approaching such storylines—with and without the input of others. ‘Nuff said!

NE

W G

OD

S

#81

97

2

New

Gods TM

& ©

2003 DC

Com

ics.

by Tom “The Comics Savant”

S tewart

Problems...

Bob Hodes had a problem. As the representative for Edgar Rice Burroughs Inc., Robert

M. Hodes oversaw the Burroughs estate and its literary legacies: Tarzan, John Carter of

Mars, Carson of Venus, David Innes, the Moon Men and Red Hawk—the vast galaxy

author Edgar Rice Burroughs (ERB) left behind him upon his death in 1950. The

properties had languished after the passing of the founder, falling prey to pirated copies

of the Burroughs originals and unauthorized comics (the first time pirates got the better

of Tarzan!). Funny thing was, the very pirated novels that caused the problem helped

spur a Burroughs revival. ERB Inc. started tending to business. At the end of the 1960s,

the House of Burroughs was back in order, overseeing worldwide rights for movies, books,

reprints, comic strips, and, of course, comic books, especially Tarzan comic books.

Since 1912, when Burroughs, a man who had famously failed at almost everything

he put a hand to, borrowed someone else’s stationery and wrote Tarzan of the Apes,

Tarzan had been a phenomenon, and a very valuable property. More books followed,

pushing Tarzan into publishing-empire status (before Amazon.com, mind you). Movies

both silent and sound, radio, gasoline (well, Tarzan endorsed it), and comic strips all

came spilling out to meet the demand—he even got his own town, Tarzana,

California. And again, the comic books.

Ah, comics. It was a small, but not unimportant part of ERB Inc. Tarzan was popular

all over the world, one of the most recognizable fictional characters in history, and his

comics were just as popular. Tarzan comic books started with comic-strip reprints in the

1930s, then in 1947 Tarzan began appearing regularly in new stories written especially

for Dell Comics. Tarzan soon got his own title. For years the Dell Tarzans were written

by the very prolific Gaylord DuBoise and drawn by Jesse Marsh (the Mike Sekowsky of

Tarzan: either you loved him or hated him; or hated him, then loved him). DuBoise and

Marsh strayed far from Burroughs original (maybe not as far as the “Me, Tarzan” MGM

7 4 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

Tarzan, Tarzan and Tarzan:The Lord of the Jungle’s

long, strangeJourney

Through the Jungles of Three Publishers

featurefeature

D C v s . M a r v e l • B A C K I S S U E • 7 5

movies did), making many Burroughs

purists cringe, but they kept the title a

popular one right up until Marsh’s retire-

ment in 1965, when artist Russ Manning

took over. Manning restored Burroughs

source material to the title and helped it

regain popularity for the comic book (and

newspaper strip, which he later took over,

as well), especially in the overseas foreign

markets.

This was the problem.

The foreign markets were printing and

reprinting all the Tarzan material they had.

Forty years’ worth of comic strips (by Hal

Foster, Burne Hogarth, and Rex Maxon) and

over twenty years of comic books published

by Dell and later Gold Key Comics, all went

to feed the foreign annuals, monthlies, and

weeklies, translated and sold all over the

world. It was a sweet deal. Gold Key paid

the writers, artists, editors, and all the

overhead, ERB Inc. kept the negatives of all

the stories, sold them for set page rates to

South America, Europe, Africa, wherever

Tarzan was needed and wanted. Sweet. There

was only one thing wrong: The reprints were

running out. They needed more. Much more.

The Russ Manning stories that Gold Key

was printing were very popular with the overseas publishers—so popular, in fact, that

when the art wasn’t coming in fast enough, they hired their own “Russ Mannings”

and set them to aping (yes, that was intentional) the Manning style on new pages

(something that didn’t make Russ happy, but why would it?). More was needed, and

ERB Inc. felt that Western Publishing (owner of Gold Key Comics) should provide it.

Hodes went to Gold Key.

At this time, Gold Key wasn’t in the expanding vein. After years of supplying mate-

rial to Dell Comics, Western split with Dell and entered publishing on its own by putting

a

Infantino’s “Perfect Guy”DC publisher Carmine Infantino chose Joe Kubert

as his Tarzan artist.

Tarzan © 2003 ERB Inc.

7 6 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

its leg in the water, but only up to the knee. Hodes asked that

the publishing be stepped up, and that other Burroughs

properties be looked at also (John Carter?). Their schedule

was fixed. Tarzan sold well at eight times a year, why

change it? Gold Key said no. After two hundred issues, the

Gold Key Tarzans ended. ERB Inc. would have to look else-

where (Western lost the Hanna-Barbera books the same way:

not putting out enough issues to satisfy the foreign markets).

But where? Why not ERB Inc. itself? Why not an entire

line of wholly owned Burroughs comics, published by the

people who knew the properties best? Hodes had it all

priced out: so much for scripts, for artists, paper, printing.

All he needed was a distributor.

That was a problem. In the early 1970s, no distributor wanted to take on a new

comics publisher, even one waving the flag of Tarzan before him. Comics were seen

as a low-profit medium with not a lot of future (even then!). The biggest comics dis-

tributor, Independent News Corp. (INC), told Hodes to go down the hall to DC Comics

(owner of INC), maybe they could help him. In 1971, going to DC meant going to

see Carmine Infantino, former artist, then art director, then editorial director, and, at

the time, publisher.

“I Choose Who I Choose”

DC Comics under Infantino was willing to try new things. New titles, new takes on old

characters, new blood, and Kirby was coming! DC was also no stranger to licensed

properties, having had a long run of Bob Hope and Jerry Lewis comics, among others,

but would it make sense to take up the Burroughs deal, under the terms that ERB Inc.

wanted? To Carmine Infantino, it was about the numbers:

“Tarzan was doing well in Europe at the time. In fact, our European

publishers talked to me about doing it here in the states, and I said,

‘If the numbers are right.’ We had a meeting with the California

people, out there in Tarzana, with Bob Hodes. We worked out

the deal. The best things happen simply!”

The numbers were good. Infantino must have thought that a gift had fallen into

his lap. Right at the start of comics’ sword-and-sorcery fad, here comes some of the

properties that defined the genre: John Carter of Mars, Carson of Venus, David Innes,

and most important, Tarzan, a character more popular in more countries than even

that DC flagship hero, Superman. And Infantino had the perfect man for it: Joe

Kubert. Carmine reveals, “They wanted their artists on it. But I insisted on Kubert. I

think I was right. He was the perfect guy for the strip. I told them, ‘I choose who I a

Tarzan © 2003 ERB Inc.

D C v s . M a r v e l • B A C K I S S U E • 8 7

From there to…Infantino

We never tried to parallel Marvel. Once you copy someone, you’re

always second best. I wanted us to be individual, and we were, with the

mystery books, and the war books that Joe Kubert did so beautifully.

When he was working at Marvel, Jack Kirby would call me regularly

to say hello. We’d talk and kid around. One time when I was in California

on business, we went to dinner, and Jack said, “I’d like to show you

something.” He showed me three covers: New Gods, Mister Miracle, and

Forever People. I said, “They’re wonderful. Good luck.” He said, “No, no,

you don’t understand. I want to do them for you. My Marvel contract is

up. I want a contract with you.” I said, “I’ve got no problem with that.”

It was as simple as that, and in 1970 Jack Kirby came to DC.

Jack wanted the whole Superman line to do. I couldn’t give him

that—with that property, you have to be very careful. So I decided to

try him out on Jimmy Olsen. But it didn’t work. We later discovered why:

Jimmy Olsen was really made for little kids, and Jack made it very sophis-

ticated, which was the wrong thing for that book.

Unfortunately, Forever People, Mister Miracle, and New Gods didn’t sell.

Jack became unhappy because of this. The Demon did fairly well, however,

and so did Kamandi. Kirby did one book, The Sandman, with his original

partner Joe Simon, and the sales just went through the roof. So I called

Jack and asked him to do more books with Joe, but Jack said, “I want to

move on.” He went back to Marvel at that point.

I was in Europe and the Edgar Rice Burroughs people approached me

about DC publishing Tarzan. But they wanted their creative people on the

project, and I said, “No, no, I want my guys on the book.” I put Joe Kubert

on Tarzan. When the Burroughs people saw Kubert’s work, they were

delighted. Joe was made for that character. At first, Tarzan sold very well.

Then I went out and got Captain Marvel [for the Shazam!] series and

the Quality Comics characters like the Ray and Black Condor [who, with

other heroes, spun out of Justice League of America into their own title, Freedom

Fighters]. We started to refurbish the super-hero line.

Success No “Mystery”DC caught Marvel

off guard by “quietly”

releasing its inventive

line of mystery titles.

(far right)

© 2003 DC Comics.

From there to…Infantino

a guest editorial by Carmine Infantino

All characters TM & ©2003DC Comics.

Stan Lee and I were fairly friendly. We didn’t see each other

very often, but when we did, we were very cordial. We had

known each other for years. Stan and I were old friends.

When Superman vs. Spider-Man was proposed, I was opposed to

it. The person in charge of Marvel at that time came to DC with

the crossover idea. He met with my superior, and they called me

upstairs and said, “We want it done.” I thought we’d be enhanc-

ing the Marvel line by bridging them with DC, but since I had no

choice, I insisted, “Let us do it properly.” I picked the artist I

wanted, Ross Andru, and I created and designed the cover. The

book was a lot of hard work but it did very well.

DC was privy to Marvel’s numbers. Our distributor would get us

copies of their sales reports, and they got copies of our numbers. There

were no secrets there. Marvel had been moving ahead by leaps and bounds,

but we caught up, because we produced quality comics. There was one year

when we won every award possible. I knew we were on the right track then.

Toward my last year at DC, Marvel decided to do to us something that DC

had done many years earlier to Western Publishing: They dramatically increased

their output, and this threatened to push us off the stands, where the shelf space

was limited. I had to combat that, so I met Marvel book to book. I knew it was

going to cost us a lot of money, which it did, but it cost them a

fortune. The people upstairs did not appreciate my posture, so it

was better that we part ways. We did, in 1976, and that was the end of it.

My position at DC was a lot of work. I worked long hours and didn’t take a

vacation in ten years. It’s a tough job if you do it properly.

I learned that you’ve got to take chances. Not everything DC did back then

worked, but we produced some great material. I had some wonderful guys to

work with: Kubert, Orlando, Giordano, and of course, the old faithfuls, the

terrific Murray Boltinoff and the wonderful Julie Schwartz.

We had a good group of guys. They meshed well.

We were neck and neck with Marvel when I left DC. We made money and

changes. I gave back original art to the artists and raises to all personnel.

It was a memorable time.

I highly recommend Mr. Infantino’s lushly illustrated autobiography

(co-written by J. David Spurlock), The Amazing World of Carmine

Infantino, published in 2000 by Vanguard Productions. It’s a

captivating read and deserves a place of honor on the bookshelf

of every comics fan.—Michael

Kirby is Here!Jack “King” Kirby, who

epitomized Marvel’s

1960s art style,

was hired by

Carmine Infantino

in 1970 to work

his magic at DC.

(above and top right)

Characters TM & © 2003 DC Comics.

end

Team Supreme!Murphy Anderson inks

over Infantino pencils

on a 1960s Mystery In

Space cover.

(top and right)

Adam Strange TM & © 2003 DC Comics.

8 8 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

DC Comics, 2003 • 192 pages, color, $19.95

Only One ThingMissing from the Kirby MagicGood news for fans of Jack “King” Kirby and his

expansive Fourth World: In late July 2003, DC

Comics released Jimmy Olsen: Adventures by Jack Kirby, a

trade-paperback collection of Superman’s Pal, Jimmy

Olsen #133 (October 1970) through #139 (July 1971)

and #141 (September 1971)—issue #140 was a reprint

giant, in case you’re wondering. These landmark

stories, written and penciled by Kirby and inked by Vince Colletta, are important for two

reasons: They signaled the King’s triumphant return to DC, after months of teasers proclaiming “Kirby is

Coming,” and they introduced story elements that would appear in some of Kirby’s other series, as well

as in DC’s ongoing continuity for decades to come.

The presentation of these classics is superb. Unlike DC’s earlier black-and-white collections of Kirby’s

New Gods, Forever People, and Mister Miracle tales, the Jimmy Olsen stories are reprinted in glorious color

(featuring “reconstruction” by David Tanguay), and the cover—by Kirby and “the Dude” Steve Rude,

colored by Richard and Tanya Horie—is absolutely wonderful, an eye-catching blend of the King’s raw

energy and the Dude’s pristine polish. The Introduction by Kirby protégé and historian Mark Evanier

offers valuable insight into his mentor’s migration from Marvel Comics to DC, dispelling some urban

JimmyOlsen:

adventuresby Jack Kirby

by Michae l Eury

D C v s . M a r v e l • B A C K I S S U E • 8 9

colle

cted

edi

tion

rev

iew

Supe

rman

, Jim

my

Olse

n, D

ubbi

lex

TM &

© 2

003

DC

Com

ics

9 0 • B A C K I S S U E • D C v s . M a r v e l

myths along the way, while designer

Peter Hamboussi evokes the 1970s with

a vibrant, reader-friendly text layout that

warmly embraces shades of orange—the

color of Olsen’s hair and a popular hue

of the era (remember the kitchen on

The Brady Bunch?).

When reading Jimmy Olsen: Adventures

by Jack Kirby, it’s clear that prior to his jump

to DC the architect of the Fourth World had

felt creatively stifled by Marvel: These Olsen

tales explode with a staggering array of new

concepts, including, but certainly not limited

to, Darkseid and Apokolips, Metropolis’ high-

tech mob Intergang, the Whiz Wagon (the

DC Universe’s first SUV?), and the freakish

Four-Armed Terror. Kirby’s fascination with

science borders on prophecy, with cloning

a common theme throughout, and Jack

admirably tries to be hip by peppering his

epic with anarchic bikers and contemporary

lingo (some of which falls flat: Superman

was still too square in 1970 to spout dialogue

like “I can’t play by your scene!” and

“Something you should dig—but fast!”).

Amid this ocean of new ideas are waves of

nostalgia, through the reintroduction of Kirby’s

(and Joe Simon’s) Golden Age DC creations the

Newsboy Legion and the Guardian and through the

inclusion of Jimmy Olsen the DNAlien, a nod to the

ubiquitous Olsen mutations of earlier continuity. To

top it all off, comedian Don Rickles guest stars in the

last two stories of the volume—and for you newbies

The Cover, Pre-DudeKirby’s pencils from an unused Jimmy Olsen #145 cover were inked

by Steve Rude for the cover of the Olsen trade.

Superman, Jimmy Olsen, Dubbilex TM & © 2003 DC Comics

who find the notion of a Jimmy Olsen/Don Rickles

crossover puzzling, I can only quote the King’s own

gutsy cover blurb: “Don’t Ask! Just Buy It!”

Kirby fans are aware that the King’s tenure on

Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen was short-lived. Carmine

Infantino, DC Comics’ editorial director when Kirby

produced these wild tales for DC, postulates in his “Off

My Chest” guest editorial in this edition of

BACK ISSUE that Jack’s material was too

“sophisticated” for DC’s readers of the time,

particularly fans of Jimmy Olsen,

traditionally the entry-level book of the

Superman line. Upon reading Kirby’s

stories in this trade paperback—revisiting

them for the first time in many years—

I stumbled across another possible reason

for their commercial failure: The demotion

of Olsen to supporting-cast status.

For 16 years prior to Kirby’s coming,

the nucleus of the Superman’s Pal, Jimmy

Olsen universe was Jimmy himself. Once

Jack jumped on board, Jimmy took a back

seat in his own magazine to the King’s

imagination. This abrupt change

presumably unsettled readers accustomed

to Jimmy as their accessible “ticket” to

Superman’s action-filled world.

That observation aside, Jimmy Olsen:

Adventures by Jack Kirby is a fun read and a

glimpse into the inventive mind of one of

comics’ most influential creative forces.

endD C v s . M a r v e l • B A C K I S S U E • 9 1

Kirby Cuts LooseJimmy Olsen: Adventures by Jack Kirby includes

some of the King’s wildest work.

Superman, Jimmy Olsen, Guardian, Newsboy Legion TM & © 2003 DC Comics