chic eder deposition in eder v. weberman

8/12/2019 Chic Eder Deposition in Eder v. Weberman

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SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NE\ 1 YOP.K

COUNTY OF NEW YORK

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CHIC EDER

P l a i n t i f f

-a ga i n s t -

ALAN J . NEBERMAN a /k / a A. J .

WEBERM.l\N, WILLIAM J . RYAN

MARIANNE PARTRIDGE RUPER.T

MURDOCH and THE VILLAGE VOICE

INC.

Defendants .

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Deposi t ion o f p l a i n t i f f CHIC EDER t aken

by def e nd qn t ALAN J WEI3ERl1AN pursu a n t to no t i ce

dated Feb r uary 2 1979 a t the of f i ces o f David

S. Michae l s Esq . 342 Madi son Avenue New Yo rk

N. Y. 10017 on February 16 1 979 a t 2:00 p .m.

before Shary n L. Bamb e r a Shorthand Repo r t e r

and No fa r y Publ ic o f the Sta te o f Ne w Yo rk .

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APPEARANCES:

Messrs . ROSENSTEIN & KAHN

Attorneys for p l a i n t i f f ,225 Broadway

New York N. Y. 1000 7

BY: MAPC KAHN ESQ .

Of Counsel

DAVIDS . MICHAELS, ESQ.

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Attorney for defendant Alan J . Weberman

342 Madison Ave nue

New York , N. Y. 1001 7

ALSO PRESENT:

A . J WEBER.MAN

oOo

IT IS HEREBY STIPU LATED AND AGREED , by and

between the a t to rneys fo r the r espe c t i ve partie s

he re to t h a t a ll r i gh t s provided by the CP LR, in -

e l uding ~ ~ r i g h t to ob jec t to any ques t i o n excep t

as to the form o r to move to s t r i k e any t es timony

a t t h i s depos i t i on , are reserved , a nd in a d d i t i o n

t h e f a i l u r e to o b j e c t to a n y ques t i o n o r to move

to s t r i k e t e s t imony a t t h i s depos i t ion , s ha l l not

be a ba r o r waiver to make s uch mo t i o n a t and i s

rese rved fo r , the t r i a l o f t h i s a c t i o n .

IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED t h a t

t h i s depos i t i on may be sworn to by t he witnes s

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2 being examined, befo re a Notary Pub l i c o t he r than

3the Notary Publ ic before whom t h i s depos i t ion was

4begun, bu t t, 1e f a i l u r e to do so o r to r e tu r n the

5 or ig ina l of t h i s deposi t ion to counsel s h a l l no t

be deemed waiver o f the r igh t s provided by Rule

7 3116, CPLR, and sha l l be c on t ro l l e d t he reby .

8 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED t h a t

9the f i l i ng and c e r t i f i c a t i o n o f the or ig ina l o f

10t h i s deposi t ion are waived.

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12oOo

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14MR KAHN: Before we begin the depos i t ion

15o f Mr. Eder , I would l i ke the r eco rd to note t i s

16now 10 a f t e r 2 p .m. , and t ha t the a t to rneys for Mr.

17Will iam Ryan, Mr. Ruper t Murdoch and The Vil l age

18Voice have no t appeared t h i s af ternoon.

The record should a l so note they served19

20a no t i ce to take deposi t ion upon or a l examina t ion o f

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Mr. Eder, da ted February 2, which I received Febru-

ary 5 t h and t ha t subsequent ly the a t to rneys for the

22above-named defendants agreed they would be presen t

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in Mr. Michae ls o f f i c e t h i s af t e rnoon on the 16 th

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in order t ha t both deposi t ions could proceed a t the

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2 same t ime and e x p l i c i t l y , so t h a t Mr. Eder , who i s

3 here from o u t o f town would n o t have to be unduly

4 i nconvenienced .

•5 The r eco rd shou ld a l so note t h a t t h i s

6 morning a t 10:30 I r ece i v ed a t e l ephone c a l l from

7 Mr. Slade Metca l f , who i s counse l to the above-

8 named defendan t s who fo r t h e irst t ime adv ised me

9 t h a t because o f t h e p resen ce o f o f f i c e work in h i s

1 o f f i c e he did n o t choose t o a t t end t h i s d e p o s i t i o n .

11 I poin ted out to Mr. Metca l f t h a t my c l i e n t had

12flown i n to New York e s p e c i a l l y fo r t h i s d e p o s i t i o n ,

13 from out o f town and i n f a c t from overseas , and t h a t

14t h i s would work an extreme hardsh ip on Mr. Eder .

15fu r t h e r poin ted out t h a t s i n c e t h i s was Mr. M etca l f s

16n o t i ce o f d e p o s i t i o n , I expected him to be h e re and

17i he p r e f e r r ed n o t to a t t e n d the depos i t i on , we

18would assume he had waived h i s r i g h t s to depose Hr.

19Eder and t h a t we would seek ad d i t i o n a l r e l i e f as

20necessary under the CPLR.

I served a l e t t e r to t h a t e f f e c t on Mr.21

Metca l f t h i s morning a copy o f which I would l i k e

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to pu t i n t o t h i s r eco rd and I would a l so l i k e to p u t

i n t o the record a copy o f my c l i e n t s passpor t .24

Ju s t a n o t a t i o n fo r the record , my c l i e n t5

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2 passpor t

3 THE WITNl.:SS: Showed I a r r i v ed he re

4 from out o f the count ry l a s t nir ,ht a t 7:20.

•5 MR . KAHN : At JFK Airpor t .

6 Aeain, exp l i c i t l y fo r the purpose

7 o f a t t end ing t h i s depos i t i on .

8 Having sa id t ha t , we are prepared to

9 go fo r th with Mr . e ~ s depos i t i on no t i ced by

10Michaels , on beha l f o f h i s c l e n t , A. J . Weberman .

11 C H I C E D E R, p l a i n t i f f , ca l l ed as a witn es s

12by the defendant Alan J . Weberman, be ing f i r s t

3duly sworn by the Notary Publ ic Sharyn L. Bamber ,

14t e s t i f i e d as fo l lows:

15EXAMINATION Y MR . MICHAELS:

16Q Would you s t a t e your f u l l l ega l name , please?

17A My l ega l name, as f a r as the cour t s , Chic

18Ede r .

19Q What i s the name appear i ng o n yo ur b i r t h

20c e r t i f i ca t e?

MR . KAHN : Off the record .21

Di s cuss ion o f f the r eco rd .

22MR KAHN: I am goine to objec t

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because t i s i r r e l evan t fo r any purpose th a t24

25per t a ins to t h i s examinat ion .

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1 Eder

2 MR MICHAELS: Asking h is name?

3THE WITNESS: You a re asking t he name

4t h a t appears on my b i r t h c e r t i f i c a t e ? I r e fuse to

•5 answer t h a t ques t ion .

6 MR KAHN: I f you want to seek an order

7 d i r e c t i n g him to answer t h a t you can.

8 BY MR MICHAELS:

9Q What i s your l ega l name?

1A Chic Eder.

11Q Have you ever used any o ther name?

12A I have used numerous o ther names.

13Q What names?

14A I p re fe r not to answer t ha t ques t ion .

15MR KAHN: Again I ob jec t to t h a t as

16not being r e l e v a n t to the i n s t an t proceed ing . I

d i r e c t him not to answer t h a t ques t ion .17

A I would l i ke to s t a t e for the· · record t h a t I am18

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known only by t h a t name a t t h i s p o in t in t ime.

Q I Ia\re you v r been kno\vn to any gov rnm nt

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agencies under any o ther names?21

A Poss ib ly .

22Q What names?

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A It s i r r e l e v a n t to t h i s case and I r e fu se to

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answer it.

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Eder 7

2MR MICHAELS: Off the record .

3(Discussion o f f the record . )

4MR MICHAELS: On the record .

•5 Q Do you concede you have, in. the course o f your

6 l i f e , used var ious o ther names, o ther than the one you a re

7 now t e l l i n g us i s your name?

8 A I do, but I vant to add to t ha t t h a t I have

9never appeared before any cot i r t , body o r governmental

1agency in t h i s decade , t he seven t i e s , by any o ther name.

11 Q Did you ever appear be fore a cour t , body o r

12governmental agency a t any t ime under ano ther name?

13A Not in t h i s decade.

14Yes, in the s i x t i e s o r pr i o r , I have .

15Q How many t imes?

A I have been in cour t? I never appeared be fore16

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a grand j u ry a t any t ime anywhere to t e s t i f y be fore a grand

18j u ry .

Q The ques t ion , i you r e c a l l , i s whether you19

a t any t ime, whether pr io r to the seven t ies o r durincr the20

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seven t i e s , appeared be fore any cour t , grand j u ry , o r any

governmenta l agency under any o ther name?

22MR RAHN: I i n s t r u c t him not to answer

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t ha t .

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A I d o n t remember. I am s t a t i ng c a t e g o r i c a l l y

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1Eder · 8

2 t ha t I have not appeared in t h i s decade the se v e n t i e s ,

3 be fore any one under any o th e r name excep t Eder.

4I w i l l make one concess ion here t ha t I used

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· 5 the name Phi l ip .

6 Q Is t h a t your name?

7 A Yes t h a t i s my name.

8 Q Is it the name t h a t you were born with?

9A No it i s not the name I was born with .

1Q Again what i s the name you were horn with?

MP KAHN: Here aga in , I am going to11

12ob jec t to t h a t as being i r r e l e v a n t to the p roceed ing .

13Q Where and when were you born?

14A In New York City in 1931.

15Q On what date?

A I d o n t t h ink I want to g ive him t h a t in fo rma-16

t i on .17

MR KAHN: Again I o b jec t to t he18

19re levancy as to t he s p e c i f i c date o f h i s b i r t h . It

20has nothing to do with any of the i s sues r a i s e d in

the compaint o r any conce ivab le defense to t he i s sues

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ra i sed in the compla in t .

22Q Mr. Eder isn t it t r u e you have prov ided in -

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format ion to d i f fe ren t government agencies under d i f f e r e n t

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names

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1 Eder

2 HR KAHN: I ob jec t to the ques t ion .

3HP MI CHAE LS : t i s c e r t a in ly r e l e va n t .

4MR KAHN: t i s too broadly based fo r - -

•5 Q Have you ever given in fo rmat ion to a government

6 agency under any o ther names o ther than Chic Eder?

7MR KAHN: t presumes a conc lus ion .

8MR HICHAELS: I am asking whether in

9fac t I am no t conclud ing t ha t . I am asking whether

10it occurred whether you have given in fo rmat ion to

11government agencies under any o ther name?

12A Not in the seven t i e s .

13Q P r i o r to t ha t?

A Poss ib ly . I have been a r r e s t e d on numerous ]

15occasions and in cour t on numerous occas ions . I f t h a t b e -

16ing the case then I have t e s t i f i e d in my own cases and I

17have given in fo rmat ion to t he government and it may have

18been under ano ther name.

19Look what I am t r y i n g to ge t across to you

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Nr. Michaels i s s imply t he most you cou ld hope to go back

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on t h i s i s t en years with me because beyond t en y ea r s I

am not going to tell you any th ing un less the cour t orde rs

22me to t e l l you t h a t . So now we know exac t ly what we a re

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dea l ing wi th here .

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MR MICHAELS: Off the record .

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Eder 10

2 Discussion o f f the record . )

3MP . MICHAELS: Back on the r ecord .

4 Q During the 1970 s , have you ever given in -

• 5 format ion to any governmental law enforcement agency o r

6 prosecu to r i a l agencies under the name o f P h i l i p Eder o r

7 chic Eder?

8 MR KAHN: I ask you to c l a r i f y t h a t .

9Do you mean during the t ime o f a tri l in which he

10was a witness in a t r i a l ?

11MR

MICHAELS: No. I mean dur ing t he

12course o f i nve s t i ga t ion , indic tment proceed ing ,

13t r i a l o r any mat te r r e l a t e d to any law enforcement

14agency.

15MR KAHN: I f ind the ques t ion objection...:

16ab le because of the breadth and l ack o f s p e c i f i c i t y .

17I f you spec i fy a s pe c i f i c in s tance o r agency, I w i l l

18not ob jec t to h i s answering.

19Q Did you ever g ive in fo rmat ion under t he name

20of Phi l ip Eder o r Chic Eder o r any o ther name to any agency• 21o r rep resen ta t ive o f the Drug Enforcement Admin is t ra t ion o r

predecessor agencies?

22A Yes, I have . Yes, I have bu t it never had

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any th ing to do with any i n d iv id u a l s ; it only had to do wi th -

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MR KAHN: Off the record .

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Eder 11

2Discuss ion o f f the record . )

3MR KAHN: Back on the record .

4 A t only has to do with t e chno log ica l - - d i s -

· 5 cuss ion o f t e chno log ica l ope ra t ions o f t h e i r computer

6 system.

7 Q Let me go back a little b i t and ask you a

8 little more by way o f background.

9 Where were you educated?

1A Folsom Prison, Cal i fo rn ia . I gradua ted as

11va led ic to r i an o f my c l a s s in 1966, I be l i eve .

12Q Did you have any educa t ion pr io r to t h a t ?

13A Not to speak of .

14Q Where did you grow up?

15A New York.

16Q Did you have any educa t ion subsequen t to t ha t?

A Yes.17

18Q Could you spec i fy , piease?

19A Ventura College, Stony Brook Univer s i ty .

20Q You r e g i s t e r e d as a s tuden t a t both i n s t i t u -

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21t i ons you named?

A No. I was a s tuden t a t Stony Brook Unive rs i ty

22bu t was no t r e g i s t e r e d . I may have been , bu t I d o n t t h ink

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so . I w as n t reg i s t e red fo rmal ly , but I may show up on24

the records .25

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1 Eder

2 Q Mr. Eder, i s it your p o s i t i o n in t h i s case

3 your repu ta t ion as a c r imina l has been defamed?

4 A No. As an out law.

•5 Q What do you mean by tha t?

A As someone who l i v e s o u t s i d e o f the law.

7 Q As someone ' ho v i o l a t e s t he law?

8 A Poss ib ly as someone who v io l a t e s the l aw.

9 Q What do you c la im your r e p u t a t i o n i s as an

10 out law, as you c a l l i t ?

11 A To quote Bob Dylan, , . To l i ve out s ide the law,

12 you must be hones t . To p u t ano ther person in a p r i s o n

13 c e l l in your place i s di shones t , and my s ta tement i s I

14 have a t no t ime put ano ther person , by t r a d i n g mysel f , i n t o

15 a pr i son c e l l .

16Q Your c la im h ere i s it i s your r ep u t a t i o n as

17an hones t out law which has been defamed?

18A That i s c o r re c t .

19MR KAHN: Off the record .

20(Discuss ion o f f the record . )

• 21MR KAHN: Back on the record .

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A t has a l so h u r t my bus iness r ep u t a t i o n in t he

23l eg i t ima te b u s i n es s es which I am invo lved in a t the presen t

t ime.24

25Q Is t h a t your s ta tement o r have you been adv ised

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Eder

2 Q How many t imes?

3 A At l e a s t th ree o r four; probably more. I was

4 convicted o f possess ion of mari juana in 19 - - I be l i eve

5 1959. That was in Federal Court in Miami.

6 I was convic ted o f possess ion of mar i juana ,

7 Sta te Court , in San Franc isco , Cal i fo rn ia , in I be l i eve

8 1964, and I went to prison .

9 I was again a r res ted for possess ion o f o r con-

1v ic ted of possess ion o f mari juana and possess ion o f ~ No,

11 j u s t possess ion o f mari juana in 1968.

12In 70 o r 71 I was convic ted o f possess ion o f

3mari juana and possess ion o f f i rea rm, leading from the d i s -

14turbances in I s l a Vis ta , Cal i fo rn ia , which i s in Santa

15Barbara, Cal i fo rn ia .

16Q In fac t , d i d n t t ha t l a s t i nc iden t you t o l d us

17about involve the burning o f the Bank o f America?

18A t had to do with - - t had to do with the

19inc iden ts t h a t took place around the burning of the Bank

20o f America.

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21Q Here you one of the i nd iv idua l s convic ted?

A No, I was never convic ted for burn ing the

22Bank o f America.

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Q But ra the r for what?24

A Possess ion o f a f i rea rm.25

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Eder

2 Q As a fe lony?

3 A It s a fe lony . p t o f ive years in the Sta te

4 o f C a l i f o r n i a .

5 Q I s t h a t the e n t i r e r eco rd you have t o l d us

6 about now?

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A No I have only got t en up to the ea r ly 197D s .

Q Please proceed .

A I am presen t ly on ap p ea l on a co n v i c t i o n o f

possess ion o f mari juana in t he S t a t e o f Flor ida .

Q As a fe lony?

A As a fe lony .

Q Is t h a t the comple te record? Have you now

t o l d us o f a l l o f your a r r e s t s and conv ic t ions?

A I d o n t know if I have l i s t e d a l l o f t h e

a r r e s t s , s ince I d o n t have my rap s h ee t he re . I t h i n k it

i s s u f f i c i e n t fo r your purposes .

Q Have you t o l d us about a l l o f your conv ic t ions?

A Ny conv ic t ions?

Q Yes.

A Let me t h ink about it a minute . I have been

conv ic ted o f escape from p r i s o n .

Q When?

A December 8 1974.

Q Where?

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Eder

2 A Pardon me, mistake. I escaped

3 1972 and l e f t a note t e l l i n g them what day ,I would be back ,

4 and the day was May 8, 1972 and I re tu rned on t h a t da te

5 and was subsequent ly t r i e d fo r escape and conv ic ted o f

6 escape.

7 Q Have you now t o ld us about a l l o f t he conv ic -

8 t ions?

9 A Let me t h ink about t fo r a minute .

1 I wi l l r e i t e r a t e : The or ig ina l conv ic t ion ,

11 which I be l ieve t he record was expunged, was posse ss ion

12o f mari juana, th i r te .en o r four teen .

13Next, Tire Act, which I d o n t th ink appears

14on any record , in 1950. Then I was conv ic ted - - Let me

15make t ha t complete ly c l e r ~ I am not t a lk ing o f a r r e s t s .

16I am t a l k in g about those t h ings I was conv ic ted o f - - con-

17v ic ted o f mari juana in a f edera l cour t in Miami in 1959.

18Next , possess ion o f mari juana and posse ss ion

19of s to len proper ty , ano ther charge , in 1964 in San Franc i sco

2Cal i fo rn ia .

Next, 1968, I was a r r e s t e d in Ventura ,21

C a l i fo rn i a and conv ic ted o f another mari juana possess ion .

22There were o ther a r r e s t s involved around t h a t

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pe r iod ; none o f which r e su l t e d in conv ic t ion .

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The nex t one was in 71 - - 70 o r 7 1 . To be25

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Erler

2 c l e a r o n t ha t , fo r pos s es s ion o f mari juana

3 o f a f i r e bomb . That i s what I was convic ted o f in

4 I s l a Vis ta , Cal i fo rn ia .

5 The next convic t ion was Miami Flor ida , about

6 a year and a ha l f ago on a plea o f gui l t y to possess ion

7 o f mari juana .

8 And I have not been convic ted o f anyth ing s ince

9 t ha t case i s on appea l .

10 Q ivha t pr ison d id you escape from?

A Cal i fo rn ia Sta t e .

12 Q Tel l us pl ease approximate ly how much

13 mari juana was involved as to the conv ic t ion - -

4 A Seven j o in t s . Seven mari juana c i g a re t t e s .

5Q Which case a re you r e f e r r ing to?

A When I was a k id .

17Q Next?

18A In Cal i fo rn ia - - The next one was Mi a mi. I

9th ink I would be sa fe in saying it was l e s s than a quar te r

20o f an o unce . I th ink it wa s some th ing l i ke e igh t o r te n

2g rams o r something l i ke t ha t .

Q Go on.22

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A The next convic t ion wa s for a very - - aga in a

very smal l amount o f mari juana ; ce r t a i n l y no t any g rand24

sca l e .25

I d o n t remember how much . t wasn t e nough to

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Eder

r e a l l y t a l k about it

Q Under an ounce?

A I be l ieve so , bu t I m no t su re on t h a t one.

Q Under a pound?

A Here we a re dea l ing I be l ieve so . Here we

7 are dea l ing wi th a case in 1964 in San Franc isco .

8 In the 1968 case , I th ink the re was a pound

9 involved in t ha t , in the 1968 case .

10In the case in Santa Barbara , which took place

in 70 or 71 , we are t a lk ing about a j o i n t o r maybe two

12j o i n t s . That was a l l t h a t was invo lved in t h a t one.

13I be l ieve the one in iami was 5,300 pounds.

Q Any others?

5A Any o ther convic t ions? None.

6Q \Vhat l. laS t he s t o l e n proper ty?

17A Some wigs .

8Q You have t o l d us you have done var ious t ime

9in jail Would you t e l l us , p lease , t ak ing each conv ic t ion

20t h a t r e su l t e d n a j a i l sentence , t e l l m what t he sen tence

was?21

A As a k id , I went to the re formatory . The

22

second convic t ion was proba t ion . The t h i r d conv ic t ion ,

23

which took place n 1959, r e su l t e d in my going to , f i r s t ,24

to t he United Sta tes Publ ic Heal th Serv ice Hospi ta l in25

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......Y2 Lexington Kentucky a nd then to the United St a t e s Peni t e n -

3 t i a ry in At l an t a , Georgia .

4 Q Would you go on p lea se?

e5 A 1964 t he conv i c t i o n in San Franc isco ,

6 Cal i fo rn ia r e su l t e d i n , 1964 to 1 968 I was in Folsom

7 Prison, Ca l i f o r n i a s maximum cus tody p r i so n .

8 The 1968 conv iction - - t h a t may have been 6 8 ,

9 69 . It might have been 6 9 . In fac t I be l i eve t h a t wa s

10a 19 69 conv ic t ion , a nd I went to t he C al i f o r n i a Rehab i l i t a -

11 t ion Center in Corona C a l i f orn i a .

12In the 1970 1971 conv i c t i o n , I wa s s e n t t o

13Chino Cal i fo rn ia , San Quent i n , So ledad , Folsom CMC

14Tehachap i San Quent in Folsom CMC San Quen t i n , Folsom

15CMC. Tha t was my i t in e r a ry .

16Q Is t h a t i t ?

17A Yes t h a t s it.

18Q Yo u h ave spen t no o th e r t ime in j a i l o t h e r

19t h a n what you t o ld us?

20A I have been in a l o t o f j a i l s . We a re t a l k i n g

21abou t my conv i c t i ons .

Q Tel l me abou t o the r j a i l s yo u have been i n .

22A I c a n t count th em.

23

Q App r oximate ly how many?24

25A Fi f ty . I have been in f i f t y j a ils.

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2 Q Have you been a heroin addic t?

3 A Most d e f i n i t e l y , fo r e leven years .

4 Q Have you spent more than ha l f your l i f e in j a i l ?

5 A I have spent approximate ly 18 years in j a i l and

6 I am 48.

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Q Have you ever t o l d anybody you spent h a l f your

l i f e in j a i l s ?

A It s very pos s ib l e .

MR KAHN Object ion as to form. You

have to be more spec i f i c as to when and who.

Q Did you v r t e l l Mr. Alber t Goldman you have

spent ha l f your l i f e in j a i l ?

A It s poss ib le , s ince when I f i r s t met Alber t

Goldman I would have spent h a l f my l i f e in j a i l .

Q Going to the - - It was 5 300 pounds

A I haven t been in pr i son fo r tha t .

Q Do you know why?

A The case i s on appeal .

Q I s t he re a sentence t h a t has been passed?

A Three year s .

Q What cour t does t h a t der ive from?

A Miami.

Q Your a l l eged repu ta t ion as an hones t outlaw

was gained therefore in what kind o f ente rpr i ses , what kind

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2 o f ac t i v i t i e s?

3 A My ·1i fe s ty l e .

4 Q Does your l i f e s ty l e involve vio la t ing any

•5 pa r t i c u l a r law?

6 A Cer ta in ly .

7 Q Which?

8 MR KAHN: I objec t to tha t quest ion .

9 MR MICHAELS: The man claims h i s r e p u t a -

1 t i on i s defamed. I asked about what his background

11 i s with regard to t h a t repu ta t ion .

12 MR KAHN: You are asking him to i den t i fy

13 a spec i f ic l ega l s t a tu t e .

14THE WITNESS: Yes I can i den t i fy the

15s t a t u t e as the mari juana l aws. I have broken a l l

16the mari juana laws.

17Q You have broken the mari juana sa le law repea ted -

18l y , have you not?

19A I most ce r t a i n l y have. I used to s e l l it to

20your c l i en t .

21Q You say you s e l l it You are speaking in the

22presen t t ense?

A No you d i d n t ask me t h a t . You asked me if

23

I sold mari juana . I so ld mari juana.24

Q De you presen t ly?25

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2 A No I d o n t have any.

3Q When did you most r ecen t l y do so?

4 A S e l l mari juana?

•5 Q Yes .

6 A I t h in k t h a t s i r r e l e v a n t .

7MR KAHN: I o b j e c t to t h a t .

8 A I f you want to ask me when I l a s t s o l d mar i juana

9to your c l i e n t , I would be happy to answer t h a t .

1Q Thank you fo r your s o l i c i t o u s concern .

11Are you t e l l i n g us t h a t your repu ta t ion as an

12hones t out law was d e r i v ed from t he mari juana bus iness?

13A P ar t o f it was.

14Q \·/hat was the o ther p a r t ?

A15

The out law lif s t y l e .

Q What does t h a t out law l i f e s t y l e invo lve? What16

17do you mean?

A How you l i v e your lif as an out law: Do you18

do bus iness in a c o r r e c t manner a re you hones t in y o u r19

2p re s e n t dea l ings with o ther out laws and othe r peop le .

T2 Q With r eg a rd to the cases t h a t you have t o l d us

•

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about t h a t invo lved e i t h e r your a r r e s t o r your conv ic t ion

22A Excuse me I want to c l a r i f y t h a t . I am n o t

23

s t a t i ng on t h i s r eco rd t h a t what I t o l d you about my a r -

24

r e s t s i s the sum t o t a l o f my a r r e s t s . L e t s make t h a t very

25

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2 c lea r . I d o n t want anybody to come back and t e l l me I

3 l i ed to you. I am j u s t deal ing with my conv ic t ions . I

4 can remember the conv ic t ions ; I c a n t poss ib ly remember

•the number o f a r r e s t s . I have been a r res t ed ten t imes

6 in one week.

7 Q Could the number o f a r re s t s be poss ib ly over

s a hundred?

9 A The number o f a r re s t s are a l l on the rap shee t

10 and sometime.between now and the t ime we go to c our t , t h a t

11 rap shee t wi l l appear .

12Q In the course o f any of the a r re s t s o r the

13 prosecut ions r e s u l t i ng from those a r r e s t s , whether o r no t

14 they led to conv ic t ions , did you ever give informat ion to

15any government i nve s t i ga t ive or p rosecu to r i a l agency?

16MR KAHN: I objec t to t ha t ques t ion again

17on the grounds o f the breadth and I ask you to be

18more s pe c i f i c about what you were t a lk ing and ·when.

19MR MICHAELS: Off the record .

20Discussion of f the record . )

MR MICHAELS: Back on the record .

•21

Q Mr. Eder , have you ever given informat ion , in

22the course o f any cr imina l i nve s t i ga t ion or p rosecu t ion ,

23

to the United Sta tes Customs Service?24

A At no t ime .25

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Eder 26

2 Q To the United Sta tes Coast Guard?

3 A At no t ime.

4 Q To the United Sta tes Drug Enforcement Adminis-

5 t r a t i on or i t s predecessors?

6 A Only to the United Sta tes Drug Enforcement

7 Adminis t ra t ion and I s t a t e d pr i o r to t ha t what t h a t i n -

8 formation was. That informat ion was dea l ing wi th a l eak

9 they had i n . t h e i r computer. There was a method o f gain ing

10access to informat ion coming out o f t h e i r computers and I

11 plugged t ha t l eak fo r them.

12Wait a minute I want to f in i sh s t a t ing t h a t

13 I have an unders tanding with government agencies I wi°ll a t

14no t ime be asked ques t ions t ha t may l ead to an a r r e s t o r

15convic t ion .

16Q Have you ever given informat ion to the FBI?

17A Oh yes def i n i t e l y .

18Q ow many t imes?

19A Once.

2Q Under what circumstances?

A I made a dea l with the United Sta tes Government• 21

Federa l Bureau of Inves t iga t ion to asce r ta in whether o r not

22t he i r te lephones were in f a c t capable o f be ing t apped. I

23

then tapped t h e i r t e lephones and so ld them t ha t i n fo rma t ion

24

in order to ge t myself and o ther people out o f problems with25

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1 Eder 27

2 the United Sta tes Government.

3 Q Did you ever give the informat ion to any United

4 Sta tes a t to rney a s s i s t a n t United Sta tes a t to rney o r as -

5

6

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1

11

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s i s t a n t d i s t r i c t at torney?

MR KAHN: I objec t to the format ion o f

the quest ion . Specify some def inable t ime per iod o r

l oca l i t y t h a t he can r e fe r t o .

Q Did you ever give informat ion to any a s s i s t a n t

d i s t r i c t a t to rney in the Sta te o f New York o r in t he Sta t e

o f Florida?

A About what?

Q About any cr iminal i nves t iga t ion o r cour t p ro -

14 ceedings .

15A Criminal or cour t proceedings?

16MR KAHN: Again I ob jec t as to t he form.

17Are you r e fe r r i ng to an i nves t iga t ion o r cour t p ro -

18ceeding with re spec t to Mr. Eder o r an i nve s t i ga t ion

19or cour t proceeding wi th respec t to any o ther person?

20Q I wil l ask both . With r e sp e c t to your s e l f

21with respec t to an i nve s t i ga t ion o r cour t proceeding con-

cern ing yourse l f as a defendant o r prospect ive defendant

22did you ever g ive informat ion to an a s s i s t a n t U.S. a t to rney

23

o r an a s s i s t a n t d i s t r i c t a t to rney in New York Flor ida o r24

Cali forn ia?25

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Eder

A Yes.

Q How many t imes?

;;;)l ?A Well , I had a case up here and I had cases

down in F lo r ida and I had cases in C al i f o r n i a . Since I

was appear ing propr ia p e r sona, in many cases I r ep resen ted

mysel f and I had reason to come in con tac t with a s s i s t a n t

d i s t r i c t a t t o rn e y s .

Q With rega rd to any cr imina l i n v e s t iga t i o n o r

prosecut ion o f any o ther pe rsons , have you eve r given any

informat ion to any inves t i g a t i ve agency o r p ro se c u t o r i a l

agency in any o f those th r e e s t a t e s?

A Let me be very c l e a r about t h i s : With rega rd

to any informa t i o n o r any tes t imony t h a t might l ead to an

a r re s t o r conv ic t ion o f any human be i ng , I have no t given

a ny in fo rmat ion to any agency o r a.nyone per iod . That wi l l

so lve t h a t .

Now, I may have g i ven i n fo rmat i on bu t I was

always very c a re fu l to make t c l e a r t h a t the in f orma t i on

t h a t I was g iv ing , I wouldn t be asked any que s t ions . I

re fused to d ea l with any ques t ions t h a t would l e ad to any-

o n e s convic t i on o r a r r e s t .

Q You may have given i n fo rmat ion , wi t h r egard to

o ther people , to law enfor cement agenc ies o r prosecu to rs?

A No . No b ecause - -

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2 Q Did you not j u s t say I may have g i ve n in -

3 format ion ?

4 A I have given informat ion . I t o ld you t h a t . I

s have g iven informat ion wi th regard to the tapp i ng o f

6 government t e l ephones . The ent i r e gover e n t network , I

7 found a way to ge t i n to it and I so ld them t h a t in fo rma t i on

8 and then I found a way to get i n to t h e i r computers , the

9 Nat iona l Crime Info rma t i on Center c omputers, and the

10El Paso Info rmation Ce n te r computer. That ' s it

11 Q Those a re the only t ime s you have ever g ive n

12informat ion?

13 A That i s abso lu te ly cor rec t . Tha t i s the only

14t ime I have ever given t h a t in format ion . I hav e made it

15c l e a r to whomsoever I wa s dea l ing with tha t I would a t no

16t ime g ive them any informa t i on t ha t mi gh t l ea d to an a r -

17r e st o r conv ic t ion .

18Q Yet you t he re fo re are co nced ing t o us t h a t in

19c e rta in l imi t ed ways you s pec i f i ed t ha t you we re an e mployee

20o f ce r t a i n governmen t - -

A At no t ime h ave I eve r been a n emp loyee o f any21

22

government agency .

Q Have you been paid by23

A At no t ime have I ever bee n pa id by a ny go ve r n-24

ment agency fo r a ny informat ion , ca tegor ica l l y .25

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Eder 30

2 Q Here you pa id fo r the a s s i s t a n c e you gave them

3 with regard to the computer o r t e lephone?

4 I was not paid even expense money. I never re

5 ce ived They at tempted a t one t ime to reimburse me fo r

6 a i r fare across the country and I r e f used to accept t he

7 money they offe red to me. At no t ime has the government

8 ever given me any money except when I came ou t o f pr i son .

9 Q Did the government provide you with any con-

1 · s ide ra t ion with regard to any o f your cases?

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Well , o f course . That was the dea l .

Q What was the dea l?

The dea l was I gave them c e r t a in i n fo rma t ion in

order to b e a t c e r t a in cases .

The United Sta tes Government got me ou t o f

pr i son in December 16, 1974. I was r e leased from the

Cal i fo rn ia Prison. This was done with the he lp of the

United Sta tes Government. They were . t ry ing to ge t me ou t

fo r a year to work on the p o s s i b i l i t y o f t h e i r t e l ephones

being tapped.

Q Did you ever give informat ion concerning a man

named John Draper, known as Captain Crown ?

A Absolutely not .

Q Have you ever given in format ion to any govern-

ment agency with regard to Hr. Lenny Bruce?

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Eder 32

2 c e r t a in ly cannot af ford them a t t h i s t ime .

3 I would l i ke to add to my answer the f a c t a t

4 no t ime did I give the government any in fo rmat ion wi th

•5 regard to John Draper .

6 Q However, you would contend t ha t the in fo rmat ion

7 you gave was o f high value to t he government?

8 A Well , let s put it t h i s way; They t r aded fo r

9 it, so they must have thought it was o f high va lue .

1 Q Do you fee l t h a t it 1va s high l eve l informat ion

11 you were giving?

12 A No, s i r . Def in i te ly I tapped the FBI t e l ephones

13 a t t he he igh t o f the Pat ty Hears t i n v e s t i g a t i o n and they

14 f reaked.

15 Q So with regard to those l imi t ed mat te r s , did

16you provide . the government with h igh l eve l in fo rmat ion?

17A I o b j e c t to t h a t simply because you a re j u s t

18t r y i n g to fill out t ha t high l e v e l . Alan J . Weberman's

19l i n e in The Vi l l age Voice was t h a t I was a high l e v e l DEA

20informant . That ' s not my place to a sc e r t a i n whether o r

21not t h i s in fo rmat ion was o f value to them. You have to

22

ask the DEA agents I am going to put on the s t and whether

o r n o t it was o f i n t e r e s t to them.23

24Q When was it t h a t you were r e leased from pr i son

25with the ass i s t ance o f the United Sta tes Government?

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Eder 33

2 A December 16, 1974.

3 Q For how long be fore t ha t had you been in pr i son?

4 A I went to pr i son - - Again, t was the conv ic t ion

5 t ha t took p lace in I s l a Vista ,Santa Barbara , Ca l i fo rn i a ,

6 and I be l ieve t h a t was 1970 o r 71 t h a t I went i n t o p r i s on ,

7 and I escaped from pr i son in December o f 1972 and re tu rned

s vo lun ta r i ly to pr i son May 8 , 1973. I had been in p r i so n

9 fo r t ha t length o f t ime on t ha t charge .

1 Q During t he sp r ing o f 1974, did you ever v i s i t

11 Mr. Thomas King Forcade?

12A Spring o f 1974 was spent i nca rce ra ted in the

13 Cal i fo rn ia p r i son .

14 Q I th ink I am confused about dates . Have you

5t o ld us t ha t you were r e leased from pr ison in Cal i forn ia

6in December o f 74?

7A Th a t s c or r e c t . In the spr ing o f 74, I was

18in the prison .

19Q During the sp r ing of 1975 then you were r e -

20cen t ly r e leased from pr i son with the ass i s t ance o f t he

•21

government; i s . tha t cor rec t?

A Th a t s cor rec t .

22Q During t h a t pe r iod o f t ime, did you ever v i s i t

23

Mr. Thomas King Forcade?24

A During what pe r iod o f t ime?25

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2 Q Spr ing o f 1975.

3 A Yes I was in t imate ly involved with Thomas King

4 Forcade in numerous business ventures .

• 5 Q Were any o f the business ventures cr imina l?

6 A I ob jec t to the word cr imina l .

7 Q Were any o f those proh ib i ted by law a t t h a t

8 t ime?

9 A Yes they were outlawed def i n i t e l y .

10Q Did you ever v i s i t Mr. Forcade a t the F i f t h

11Avenue Hotel a t Ninth Stree t?

12A Yes. On a da i ly bas i s fo r many months dur ing

13 the t ime we had t h a t s u i t e .

14Q V e

? ou sa id we

had that su i t e Were you

15a par tner?

16A During the t ime we had t ha t su i t e - - I w i l l

17change t ha t .

18Q What bus iness was c a r r i e d on a t t ha t l oca t ion?

A19

What business was c a r r i e d on a t t h a t l oca t ion?

2Numerous bus ines ses , I suppose .

Q What bus ines ses , i any t ha t you know about?• 21

A Work on HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE d i s t r i b u t i o n o f22

mari juana.23

Q In what kind o f quan t i t i e s?24

A Hundred pounds 200 pounds 500 pounds.25

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I Eder 36

2 found a quan t i ty o f mari juana t he re . Following t h a t , when

3 the d i s t r i c t a t to rney here in New York a t tempted to coerce

4 me i n to t e s t i fy i ng with regard to t ha t marijuana be longing

5

7

8

to Thomas King Forcade.

Q I s t h a t Mr. Newgarten?

A That ' s cor rec t .

Q You say he a t tempted to coerce you. What did

9 he say?

1A That ' s cor rec t . He sa id he knew I had a dea l

11 with the Drug Enforcement Agency to k i l l the case fo r me

12in New York City he re based on informat ion t ha t I had

13suppl ied to them with regard to the computers, and he

14at tempted to - - I don ' t know the r i g h t word - - quash t he

15dea l . e re fused to a l low the dea l to go through un les s

16I agreed to t e s t i f y o r give informat ion aga ins t Thomas

17Kini; Forcade, a t which t ime I t o ld him to ge t fucked.

18Q Close quote?

19A Close quote .

20Q Thank you.

A And t o l d him my dea l with the Drug Enforcement21

Agency - - and I l i ve d up to my deal with the Drug Enforce-

22ment Agency - - my dea l , a t the beginning, with the Drug

23

Enforcement Agency, was a t no t ime was I to be asked fo r24

any informat ion t ha t might l ead to an a r r e s t o r convic t ion ,25

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1 Eder 37

2 so I d i d n t have to supp ly him with t ha t in fo rmat ion and

3 if he re fused to go along with the DEA then t ha t was t he

4 problem between him and t he DEA and to leave me out o f it

6

7

Q Mr. Eder , when you did give informat ion to

governmental agenc ies , you t o l d us you had an unders tanding

t h a t informat ion would not l ead to an a r r e s t and you would

8 not be asked ques t ions t ha t might l ead to an a r r e s t ; i s

9 t ha t cor rec t?

10 A No. ·11y or ig ina l dea l with the United S t a t e s

11 Government was simply the dea l was made whileI

was in

12 pr i son and I t o l d t he man he had read me completely wrong

13 if he thought I would t r ad e my pr i son c e l l fo r another

14 man, put ano ther man in my p lace . We made an agreement

15 a t the t ime, no t only was I no t expected to give up any

16 informat ion and would not be asked any ques t ions t h a t may

17l ead to an a r r e s t o r conv ic t ion .

18Q Did you ever have any agreement you would never

19mention anybody s name?

20A No, I d o n t th ink so .

21Q Your agreement was while you might ment ion

somebody s name, no a r r e s t would r e s u l t ; i s t h a t cor rec t?

23A No. L e t s g e t it s t r a i g h t . You a r e g e t t i n g

24cu te aga in . You ge t cute a l o t . Don t do it

25Our agreement was I might be asked ques t ions

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1 Eder 38

2 t h a t would l ead to an a r r e s t o r convic t ion . At t he t ime

3 I made my dea l with the government I fu l l y unders tood the

4 f a c t the re a re t h ings t h a t a re more important to an in -

•5 ves t iga t ive agency o f the United Sta tes Government than

a r r e s t s o r conv ic t ions and those two th ings a re t h e s a f e ty

7 o f t h e i r personnel and t he se c u r i t y o f t h e i r i n fo rma t ion

8 and communications; t h e re fo re my dea l with the government

9 as to a system in a rea s dea l ing with the sa fe ty o f t h e i r

10personnel o r t h e i r s e c u r i t i e s o f t h e i r in fo rmat ion o r com-

11munica t ions .

12Q But in t he course o f t he in fo rmat ion you d id

13 g e t you may have named names?

14 MR KAHN: I o b jec t to the form o f t h a t

15ques t ion .

16A Yes.

17Q Did you ever name t he name o f anybody who

18committed a cr ime in the course of giv ing in fo rmat ion?

19A No. Now we can dea l with the ques t ion . No.

2Okay.

Q I want to thank you fo r your compliment on my21

looks .22

You have t o l d us you know you sometimes r e p re -23

sen ted y o u r s e l f in dea l ing with the prosecu to rs ; i s t h a t24

cor rec t ?25

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•

•

Eder 39

2 A Yes I was propr ia persona in a case in Los

3 Angeles County which I b e a t and in Ventura County and

· 4 in Santa Barbara County and San Luis Obispo County I

6

7

represented myself in those cases and those j u r i sd i c t i ons

Q Any o f those cases l ead to gu i l t y p leas?

A The Los Angeles case was acqu i t t a l and the

s case in Ventura Cal i fo rn ia l ed to a g u i l t y p l e a and the

9 case in Santa Barbara Cal i fo rn ia l ed to being found g u i l t y

by a j u ry and the case in San Luis . Obispo County l ed to1

11 a p lea o f g u i l t y on an escape charge.

12Q There have been t imes where you have had

13 a t to rneys r ep resen t ing you?

14A Oh def i n i t e l y . Those a re the only t imes I

15was not r ep resen ted .

16Q The case involving the 5300 pounds i n F lo r ida

17did you have an a t to rney in tha t mat ter?

18A I d id .

19Q Who was tha t?

2A During the case?

Q Yes21

A During the t r i a l i t s e l f ?

22

Q Yes.23

A Michael Kennedy.24

Q Did he r es ign as your a t torney?25

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15 PARK ROW N Y 1 0 0 3 8 PHONES: 3 ~ 9 3 1 0 B · 9



1

2 A

Eder Ge d id .

3 Q Did he give a reaso n for it a t the t ime t h a t

4 you know of?

5 A He did .

6 Q What was t ha t?

7 A He sa id he d i d n t want - - he wouldn t defend

8 people t ha t worked with the gove r nment .

9 Q In f a c t did he c a l l you an in formant?

10 A He did .

11 Q Did he express shock you had not t o l d him?

12 A Yes

13 Q Had you t o ld him?

14 A No .

5 Q So you did not inform your a t to rney th a t you

16had a re la t ionsh ip with governmenta l agenc ies?

17A That i s cor rec t .

18Q At t h a t t ime d id you ask Mr . Kennedy to de lay

19before informing anybody o f the new fac t he had learned?

20A That i s c or r e c t and which he d id .

2Q And t he r e fo r e , he l a te r revea led it with your

consent?

22A He did not a t my consent .

23

Q Did an a l l e ga t ion t h a t you were shown t o have24

25been a governmen t informant and an informant fo r th e DEA

BL ITZ R P RT IN G C O

1 5 P A RK R OW N.Y 10038 PHONES : 349 -3106 -9



Eder

2 ever appear in prin. t t ha t you know of?

3 A Yes, it did .

4 Q Where and when?

5 A HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE 'rhe when would b e I

6 th ink the Christmas i s sue two years ago.

7 Q And?

8 A About a year and a ha l f - - Not t h i s l a s t

9 Christmas but the Christmas i s sue pr io r to t ha t .

10 Q Was t ha t s ta tement t r ue or fa l se?

11 A Let me see it aga in so I can say what i s t rue

12 and what i s f a l se .

13The s ta tement i s fa l se and I wil l dea l with

14where it i s f a l s e in j u s t a moment.

15As fa r as t h i s i s concerned, it s t a t e s here

16and I will · read the heading , Dope Hero Turns Narc. The

17term Narc means e i t h e r someone who i s working fo r t he

18Narcot i cs Agency fo r the United Sta tes o r an in formant in

19narco t ics cases fo r the United Sta tes Government. That i s

20unt rue . t a l so says h e re on the seventh l i n e o f t h i s

• 2

a r t i c l e it says was revea led in cour t as a government

in formant . That i s un t rue . Never came ou t in a cour t o f

22

law.23

MR KAHN: Are you in t roduc ing th i s · i n to

24

the record?25

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1

2

Eder 2·MR MICHAELS: Would l i ke i t ?ou to mark

3 MR KAHN: Yes

4 MR MICHAELS: Fine

• 5Q The f a l se a l l ega t ion t h a t appeared in p r i n t in

6 HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE t ha t you had been revea led in cour t to

7 be a narc , d id t h a t cause you a l o ss o f income?

8 Yes

9 Q What income?

1Income der ived from the mari juana bus iness .

11 Q Didt

cos t you any l o ss o f income in your

12yacht ing bus iness?

13 No

14Q Did t c os t you any loss o f income in any o t h e r

15businesses?

I d o n t th ink so .16

17Q Did t cos t you any loss o f repu ta t ion as an

18hones t out law o r otherwise?

19Most d e f i n i t e l y .

2Q In f ac t , i s n t t the kind o f a l l e ga t ion you

•

21a re complaining about in t h i s case?

A Most def i n i t e l y , but not qu i t e as s t rong ly

22because t he re was no s p e c i f i c i t y as to what t was I was

23

supposed to have done within the HIGH TIMES a r t i c l e .

24

Q In f ac t , i s t your opinion t ha t the HIGH TIMES25

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Eder 43

2 a r t i c l e caused much more damage to your income as an ou t -

3 law?

4 A Poss ib ly .

• 5 Q Have you, to th i s da te , t aken any l e ga l ac t ion

6 agains t HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE o r Transhigh Corpora t ion?

7 A No, I have not , bu t t ha t was simply because a t

8 the t ime I was not in a pos i t ion to do so and I am g lad you

9 brought t ha t to my a t t e n t ion , because we in tend to do t a t

1 · t h i s po in t .

Q Did you ever complain in wri t ing t h a t t he in -

2 format ion publ i shed t h e re i n was fa l se?

3 A No, not in wri t ing .

14 Q Did you ever complain ora l l y t ha t t was f a l s e

15 to HIGH TIMES MAGAZINE?

6 A No, Thomas King Forcade.

17Q What did you say?

8A Told him t was b u l l s h i t and

9Q What did he say?

20A Be t ha t as t may, Thomas King Forcade and I• 21

were in business wi th the mari juana and he chea ted me out

22

o f a l a rge sum o f money and t ha t i s what was t he bas ic

23argument or i g i na l l y .

24Q How much mari juana did you and Thomas br ing

25in to the count ry dur ing the course o f t h a t business?

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1 Eder )

U /A Many thousands o f pounds

3 Q How many d i f fe ren t impor ta t ions were involved

4 approximately?

5 A Three .

6 Q By a i rp lane , sh ip o r how?

7 A By boa t .

8 Q So in f a c t the re came a t ime when you f e l t t h a t

9 Thomas King Forcade cheated you ou t o f a l arg e sum o f money?

10 A He d id .

11 Q When was t h a t ?

12A When did I l e arn he chea ted me ou t o f the

13money?

14 Q Yes .

5A A p r i l 1 97 7 .

16Q And so a f t e r Apri l 1977 what was your opin ion

17o f Mr . Forcad e s honesty?

18A I s topped doing bus ines s with Mr Forcade a t

19t h a t po in t and took my money back a way from him .

20Q What was you r opin ion o f Mr . Forcade?

21A That he was a c h ~ a t t h a t he wa s not an hone st

outla\·1 .

22

23Q Did you ever t ll a nybody t ha t ?

A Tom Forcade .24

25Q Anyone e l s e?

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•

•

Eder 45

2 A No I d i d n t fee l it was necessary . A l o t

3 o f people knew about it Yes I did t e l l a l o t o f people

4 in the bus iness so they could pro t e c t themselves from Mr

5

6

Thomas King Forcade.

Q Did you ever complain in wri t ing to Mr. Michael

7 Kennedy about his having sa id you were a narc o r drug

s agency informant?

9 A No.

10Q Did you ever complain o r a l l y to him about t h a t

11 s tatement?

12A Yes.

13Q What did you say?

14A You know I sa id t h a t s ince t h a t w a sn t t rue ,

5t h a t I f e l t he was wrong in saying t ha t .

16Q What did he say?

17A He sa id , wel l , you know he sa id we a re a l l

18e n t i t l e d to our opinion. In f ac t , I th ink it was h i s words.

19Q Did you ever t ake any l ega l ac t ion aga ins t him?

20A No I haven t ye t .

Make a note I am suing him too . L e t s s impl i f21

t ha t .

22Q Do you have any c la im to any sec re t , confident ia

23

conversa t ions with Mr. Kennedy about your s t a t u s as an24

a l leged informant on narco t i c cases?25

L ITZ REPORTING CO

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]



Eder

T3 2 A I m not su re I understand what you are t a l k i n g

3 about .

4 Q You have t o ld us something about conversa t ions

•5 \vi th Mr. Kennedy, your former a t to rney concerning t he

6 a l l e g a t i o n which he made which was repor t ed in HIGH TIMES

7 t ha t in fac t you were a narc informant .

8 A Did I?

9 Q I m saying a re you c la iming t he re was any

10o th e r conversat ion with him with regard to your s t a t us as

11an informant which was s e c r e t o r conf iden t i a l ?

12A Yes, a l l o f t was s e c r e t and c onf ide n t i a l . He

13 was my a t to rney .

14Q Were any o f those s e c r e t and conf iden t i a l con-

15versa t ions concerning whe the r .o r no t you were i n f a c t a

16narc informant?

17Most d e f i n i t e l y .

18Q You have t o ld us t h a t you wished to consider.

19br ing ing l ega l ac t ion aga ins t Mr. Kennedy. I t ake t you

20would not ob jec t to h i s t e s t i f y i n g about your conversa t ions

•21

concerning your a l leged s t a tus as a narc in fo rmant?

A l lould I ob jec t to tha t? I a l ready ob jec t to

22t ha t . I ob je c t t o h i s having v io la t ed the a t t o rney-c l i en t

23

r e l a t i o n sh i p and t has j u s t dawned on me, s i t t i n g here in24

your of f i ce I should t ake l e g a l ac t ion aga ins t him.25

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1 Eder 47

2 Q You are saying he v io la t ed a conf idence th a t

3 in h i s opin ion you were a narc informant?

4 A That i s c or r e c t .

5 Q You are contending the re were conversa t ions you

6 had with him in which t ha t was discussed in which you ex -

7 pec ted and hoped would be kept se c re t ?

8 A Yes.

9 Q During those conversa t ions , did you and he d i s -

10cuss your a c t i v i t i e s however l imi ted , in ass i s t i ng the

11government?

12A Correc t .

13 Q Have you ever give n informat ion to any govern

14ment agency concerning a narco t i c s inves t iga t ion o r prosecu-

15t io n?

16MR KAHN: I am going to ob jec t to tha t . .

17The ques t ion was asked and ~ n s w e r e e a r l i e r .

18

19

Q Were t he re o the r p laces as ide from the Fi f t h

Avenue Hotel where you and Mr. Forcade conducted an o u t l aw ]20

business as you c a l l i t ?

A I d o n t have to21

MR KAHN: I ob je c t to the ques t ion and

22d i r e c t him not to answer .

23

A Hold it. I wi l l answer the ques t ion bu t I won t

24

ge t i n to any spec i f i c i t y .25

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•

2

3

4

5

6

Q

A

Q

A

Eder

Yes We are involved.

Were the re , in fac t , severa l o the r places?

Yes.

Where do you l ive?

In my su i tcase . I do not have a permanent

7 domici le .

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

5

16

7

18

19

2

21

22

23

24

25

Q Do you own r ea l e s t a t e in Manhattan?

A No. I d o n t own r ea l e s t a t e anywhere.

Q Are you a pa r tne r , member o f a f i rm o r share -

holder in any business which owns r ea l e s t a t e in Manhattan?

A No.

Q Do you own any boats?

A No.

Q What i s your business. a t t h i s t ime?

A I m a corporat ion in New York.

Q Which does what?

A Se l l s ea rs .

Q E-a- r - s?

A Se l l s ea r s .

Q I s t ha t the so le bus iness of t ha t company?

A At t ha t po in t , yes .

Q What i s the name of the company?

A Picaresque of New York.

Q What business did t ha t corporat ion normal ly

LITZ REPORTING CO

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Eder 49

2 conduct?

3 A Conduct ing no bus iness bes ides t ha t . ]4 Q Have you made arrangements fo r any improvements

•5 on any r e a l e s t a t e in Manhattan wi th in the l a s t two y ea r s ?

6 A I d o n t know what t h a t means so I c a n t answer .

7 Would you be a little more s pe c i f i c , you know i n s t e a d o f

s being a lawyer?

9 Q Have you ar ranged fo r se rv ice s o f a r c h i t e c t s ,

10 ca rpen te r s , e l e c t r i c i a n s , renova to rs , r e s t o r e r s ; r eb u i ld e r s

11 o r any othe r persons whose bus iness i s invo lved in t he im -

12provement o f r e a l t y ?

13A I worked on it fo r a whi le but noth ing came to

14f r u i t i o n .

15Q A b u i l d i n g a t what address?

16A I d o n t know the address . t was in t he

17twen t ies bu t I d i d n t buy t he b u i ld in g , so t h a t s it

18was a plan to buy a b u i l d i n g through a corpora t ion I was

19invo lved with and t he p l an never came to f r u i t i o n . T h a t s

20a l l .

•21

Q Are you t e l l i n g us then t h a t a t one t ime you

made a co n t r ac t to purchase a bui ld ing bu t did not c lo s e

22the dea l?

3

HR KAHN: I o b j e c t to t h a t .24

25A No I d i d n t make any co n t r ac t to purchase any

L ITZ REPORTING CO

15 PA R K ROW N .Y . 1 0 0 3 8 PHONES 49 · l OB·



Eder

2 bu i ld ing .

3 Q What was the pr i c e of the bu i ld ing which you

4 d i d n t buy?

•5 A How does t ha t r e l a t e ?

6 MR KAHN: I objec t to t h i s e n t i r e l i n e

7 o f ques t ioning fo r the reasons t i s t o t a l l y im

8 mater ia l to any defense t ha t may be l eg i t ima te ly

9 ra i sed ·in the ac t ion and t he re i s no ind ica t ion what

10 Mr Michaels i s t a lk ing about and I t h ink t i s un

11 f a i r to ask the wi tness to respond. I am not sure .

12 what you a re t a lk ing about and I am not su re my

13witness does e i t h e r .

14Q Do you have any business o ther than the·

15Picaresque business you have t o l d us about?

16A What o ther businesses do I have o r what o the r

17businesses do I pro jec t?

18Q What o ther businesses are you conducting now?

19A In the United Sta tes , none.

20Q Outs ide the United Sta tes?

A Various o ther business ventures

• 21

Q Such as?

22

MR KAHN: I am going to ob je c t .23

HR MICHAELS: I am going to ob je c t to24

your ob jec t ion . The c la im i s t ha t there i s a de ro-25

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1 Eder G2 MR MICHAELS: Back on the record .

3 A In the Caribbean and fu r the r than t ha t , I would

4 r a the r not s t a t e , and the reason I would ra the r not s t a t e

• 5 t i s simply because I a l ready have J:ieen i n ju red by t h i s

6 par ty and I d o n t want t h a t in format ion ava i l ab le to t h i s

7 par ty .

8 Q Under what j u r i s d i c t i on? What i s l and o r

9 loca l i ty?

1 A That i s exact ly what I m t e l l i n g you I am no t

11 going to t e l l you.

12 MR MICHAELS: Off the record .

3 Discussion o f f the record . )

14 MR MICHAELS: Back on the r ecord .

15 Q You are not making any money from t h a t t h i s

16year , the boa t ing bus iness?

17A No.

18Q Did you make any money from t l a s t year?

19A Yes.

20Q About how much?

A A few hundred do l l a r s .• 21

22

Q Did you make any money from t the year before

tha t?23

24A I w a sn t in t the year before t h a t .

25Q How about the opa l bus iness ; are you making any

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1 Fr3er

2 money t h i s year?

3 A A few d o l l a r s .

4 Q Make any money in it l a s t year?

5 A I wasn t in it l a s t year .

6 Pardon me t h a t s wrong . I was in it l a s t

7 yea r and no I did not make any money in it l as t year

8 Q What a re you making money in t h i s yea r?

9 A Nothing . It i s a p re t t y bad year so f a r .

10Q What did you make money in l a s t yea r ?

11 A I sa id I made a few do l l a r s in the boa t

12busin es s l as t year . Maybe two t h r ee hund re d do l l a r s .

13Q Wha t e l s e?

14A Th a t s it

15Q ow did you suppor t yourse lf l as t yea r?

16A I d i d n t .

17Q ow did you buy food?

18A I d i d n t .

19Q You did wi thou t food a l l yea r ?

20A No. I d i d n t buy any food .

Q You are t e l l i n g us t ha t your on ly income fo r21

t he yea r o r t he only income was f rom those bus inesse s?

22A From tho s e bus ines ses .

23

Q l 111a t was your t o t a l income fo r the yea r 1976?

24

A Maybe t h r e e , f i ve , four hundred do l l a r s .25

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E rl.er

2 Q ow about 1977?

3 A Probably about the same .

4 Q ow about 1978?

5 A I d o n t know I can t deal with tha t because

6 I d o n t know how much I made because I d o n t keep any re -

7 cords , but t h a t s what I f igure I made

8 Q You do keep copies o f the t ax re tu rns you f i l e ,

9 do you not?

10A No , I d o n t have any t ax re turns . I d o n t f i l e

income t ax .

12Q You d o n t f i l e any income t ax anywhere?

13 That s c or r e c t .

4Q ow much d id you make from the mari j u ana

5bus iness , let s say , in 1975?

6I have no i dea .

17Q 1976?

18A I d o n t know

19Q 1977?

20Don t know .

Q 1978?21

A Don t know .22

Q 1979?23

Don t k n d ~24

Q You have been in the mari juana bus i ness in 1979?25

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1 E<ler 55

2 A No.

3 Q I m so r ry . I though t you sa id you didn t know

4 how much you made in the mari juana bus iness in 1979. Are

5 you saying you don t know because you were in the bus ines s

6 o r you d o n t know - -

7

8

A I m say i ng I don t know because I haven t been

doing anything in 1979 in the mari juana bus iness . I haven t

9 been in the mar i juana bus iness in 1979 , but I was in t he

10 mari juana bus iness p r i o r to 1979.

11Q

Up through 1978 , perhaps?

12A Sure .

13 Q You t o ld us about a d ispu te wi t h Mr . Forcade

14 t ha t l ed you to f e e l he chea ted you ou t o f a s ubs t a n t i a l

15sum o f money. How much money was t h a t ?

16A It was n t money ; it was mari juana .

17Q How much mari juana was i t ?

18A Fi f ty pound s .

19Q How much does t h a t go fo r?

20A It depe nds on your neighborhood .

Q2

Appro ximate ly a t th a t t ime , l e t s say in the

22neighborhood in which the ac t you were comp l a i n i n g abou t

occurred?23

A l\.bout 200 a pound. It was i n F lo r id a .24

Q About 10 , 000, maybe?25

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2

Eder

ut you see , in theYes about ten grand.

3 course of t h i s t he re i s a cost of doing bus iness ; the c os t

4 of doing business i s a l l of it. I d o n t make any p r o f i t s ,

•5 so I d o n t pay any t axes . It s obvious what I am saying

6 i s I don t pay any t axes to the United Sta tes Government

7 and I don t have any i n t e n t ion to pay taxes to the United

8 Sta tes Government. Therefore , I am not going to s t a t e

9 under tes t imony t ha t I made any money on any ventures .

10Q Have you ever o r do you ever in tend to pay

11 t axes to the Sta te ofew

York o r t he S ta t e o f F lo r ida o r

12any other s ta te o r municipal j u r i s d i c t i on?

13 A I d o n t in tend to pay any t axes to any govern-

14ment agency in the world a t any t ime a t th i s point , Since

15I am an anarchis t . , I d o n t be l i eve in government.

16Q Have you done t ha t in the past? Have.you made

17out tax re tu rns and paid taxes?

18A I c a n t ever remember making a - -

19Q To any s t a t e o r municipal government?

•

20

21

A I have s o r t of a dea l with the government.

Whatever they ge t i s t he i r s and whatever I ge t i s mine

Q This deal , i s t h i s l i k e the o ther dea ls you

l22

are t e l l i n g us about where you made a spec i f i c agreement23

with some government o f f i c i a l ?24

A I have no agreement with any government25

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2 o f f i c i a l . I j u s t decided I 'm not going to pay any t a x e s .

3 Q You used t he word dea l , as a joke?

4 A I have, a t t imes , say, fo r a few days , worked

•5 and the monies t h a t I may have earned would have been ,

6 would have had withho ld ing t axes taken out o f it and if

7 t he re was any withho ld ing t ax which was t aken , I never

8 f i l e d to g e t any back and I l e t the government keep t h a t

9 but I did not f i l e income t a x . I j u s t re fuse to f i l e it.

1 I don ' t pay any a t t e n t i o n to t h a t .

11 QWhere did you g e t the money to use to go i n

12the boa t bus iness?

13

14

A I d i d n ' t put any money in t he boat b u s in e s s .

They pay me a smal l amount o f money fo r advice.]

15Q We a re a l l aware t ha t l e g a l proceedings a re

16expensive. How do you f inance l ega l proceed ings ; from

17what source o f income?

18A My a t to rney , a t t h i s po in t , does not charge

19me any money. He has - - I be l ieve he used the te rm ' 'pro

2bono. I s t h a t the term? Pro bono publ i co . Since I d o n ' t

•21

pay t h i s poor fe l low, we a r e was t ing a tremendous amount

o f t ime. I d o n ' t pay any a t to rney .

22

23

Where did I ge t the money to pay Michael

Kennedy? From the mari juana bus ines s .

24

Q In f ac t , over t h e course o f your dea l ings in

5

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- ·2 the mari juana business , you have taken in a gre a t dea l

o f money , have you not?

4 A Yes bu t I d i d n t make any. The cos t o f doing

5 bus iness was always j u s t about exact ly the amoun t o f t he

6 mari juana bus ines s .

7 Q Would you say , perhaps , over the cour s e o f

8 your l i fe t ime you have t aken in more than a mil l ion do l l a r s

9 in t he marijuana business?

10A ·r f the ques t io n i s , has a million do l l a r s gone

11 through my hands in t he mari ju a na bus iness , yes .

12 Q So given the income pos i t ion t ha t you a re t e l l

13 ing us t ha t you have a t t h i s p o i n t , you are not c la iming

14 t h a t Mr . Weberman s a r t i c l e caused you any l o ss o f any in -

15 c ome in the opa l o r boa t bus ines s , are you?

16A · I m c la iming t h a t it caused me not to make any

17money and t ha t i s why I h a v e n t made any money , because

18the re are ce r t a i n peop le who have re f used to do bus ines s

19w ith me based on the f a c t Weberman s a r t i c l e s t a t e s I am

20an informant and who have t e s t i f i e d before a grand j u ry

21in Brooklyn .

Q l·vho were tho s e people t h a t re fused to do

22

3business with you as a r e s u l t o f the a r t i c l e ?

A Well I a t tempted to h i r e someone fo r the24

5magazine t ha t I ha d pro jec ted fo r the fu ture , r ecen t l y ,

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2 and tha t person sa id , I f I want a cop I w i l l

3 po l ice s t a t i on . ' '

4 Q With regard to your earn ings in the opal

•5 bus iness or boa t bus ines s , a re the re any earn ings t h a t you

6 have l o s t as a r e su l t o f the publ ica t ion o f t h i s a r t i c l e ?

7 A Yes I be l ieve so . There i s a fe l low in Texas

8 his name i s Ray

9 Q Ray what?

1 A Car te r .

11 QDo

you know h i s address?

12 A No no t a t the moment but I w i l l c e r t a i n l y

13 ge t t for you. And Ray Car te r re fused to become i nvo lved

14 with me in the opa l business over the i nc iden t .

15Q Had you previous ly been involved in the opa l

16bus iness with Mr. Carte r?

17A No.

18Q That was only a plan pos s ib i l i t y?

19A The ven tu re . The venture spec i f i ca l l y went

20down because o f t h i s a r t i c l e .

•21

Q Did t h a t venture produce any income to you in

22

the pas t?

A No.3

Q Do you ever char t e r your boa t to smugglers?24

A No.5

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1 Eder 60

2 Q Outlaws o f a ny kind?______/

3 A Not to my knowledge .

4 MR MICHAELS: Let s t ake a recess .

5 Rec es s taken . )

6 BY MR MICHAELS:

7 Q Do I unde rs t and c or r e c t ly yo u have t o ld us

8 tha t your only income from l eg i t ima te businesses , dur i ng

9 1977 and 1978, was a few hundred do l l a rs?

10A No. You unders tand c or r e c t ly as s t a t i n g t h a t

11t ha t i s a l l I wish to s t a t e t h a t I had made s imply becaus e

12I don t want it to appear anywhere on the record th a t I

13have s t a t e d more t han t h a t because I d o n t wan t the govern-

14ment, a t some po in t , to come back to me and say why didn t

15I pay taxes on it

16Q Did you l o se ~ y money on a ny e x i s t i ng l e g i t ima t

17business as a r e s u l t of the pub l i ca t ion o f the a r t i c l e ?

A18

Yes , I d id . It has caused me - - It has caused

19me to postpone the pub l i ca t ion da te o f magazine t h a t I have

20been planning fo r the pa s t year .

Q Did you have any income from th a t magazine in21

the p a s t ?22

A No , it was j u s t a pro jec ted income.23

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Q I s t he re any ex is t i ng bus iness t ha t provided

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publ ica t ion?

viMR KAHN: I have to ob jec t to t h a t

ques t ion on the grounds it a l ready has been asked

and answered.

MR MICHAELS: Off the record .

Discussion o f f the record .

MR MICHAELS: Back on the r ecord .

A Yes. The reason I have not done any bus iness

in the mar i juana business in 1979 i s pr imar i ly based on

th i s a r t i c l e .

Q In f ac t , the pr imary loss economical ly you had

as a r e s u l t o f t h i s pub l i ca t ion i s the decl ine o f your

mari juana bus ines s , i s it not?

A Exact ly .

Q That i s the overwhelming and predominant th ing

t ha t the case i s about , isn t i t ?

A Yes. It most ce r t a i n l y i s . I th ink I can

answer t ha t t h a t i s t r ue .

Q Thank you.

Off the record

Discussion of f the r ecord .

MR MICHAELS: Back on the r ecord .

Q You have t o l d us about your b e l i e f t h a t t h a t

a r t i c l e was publ i shed with malice?

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Eder 62

2 A Correc t .

3 Q What do you be l ieve the or ig in was o f t ha t

4 malice?

5 A My re fusa l to any longer s e l l mari juana to

6 A. J . \•leberman a t very good pr i c e s .

7 Q When was t ha t?

8 A I stopped se l l i ng it to him around June of

9 1977. I be l ieve t ha t i s the l a s t t r ansac t ion , June o f

10 1977. t may have been Ju ly , ·but I d o n t remember, but in

the summer, sp r ing o r summer of 1977 I stopped se l l i ng to

12him.

3 Q You stopped because you bel ieved the s e l l i n g

4 of mari juana was wrong, aga ins t the law or some othe r

5 reason?

6A No, I cu t him o f f ,

7Q Why?

18A Because I decided he was a pain in the ass .

9Q Didn t you l eave to vn about tha t t ime because

20of the a r t i c l e t ha t appeared in HIGH TIMES t h a t claimed

2you were ·a narc informant?

22

A Excuse me. The t ime I s topped doing business ,

I cu t him - - cu t A. J . Weberman fr om his supply o f23

mari juana took place in June o r Ju ly o f 1977. The pub l i ca -24

25t ion in ques t ion i s , the HIGH TIMES a r t i c l e appeared in the

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1 Ede r 63

2 De c emh e r i s su e which prob a bly came out i lround t he e nd o f

3 Oc t o ber o r t he beginning o f NovembP r .

4 Q When wa s it t h a t Michael Ke nnedy made the

5 s t a t emen t t ha t you were a n a r c info rman t ?

6 A I be l ieve around Labor Day o f t h a t sa me y e a r

7 and I had c u t him o f f months be fore t h a t .

8 Q That was during the t ime ~ l e you wer e working

9fo r the governmen t age ncy yo u have n a med in the l i m i t e d

10way you have spec i f i ed?

11 A No.I had not wo r ked fo r those go vernmen t

12agenc ies . I worked tw ice fo r t he Fede r a l nur e au o f I n -

13v e s t ig a t i on on the te lephone dea l in 1975 and I worked

14wi t h the governme n t on the o th e r case , t he computers , in

151976 , so it was , l i ke , a t l e ast a minimum o f a y ea r h a d

16gone by s ince I had anything to do with the gove r nme n t .

17Q Le t me show you t h i s documen t sir , Rnd as k yo u

18if t h i s i s your compla in t iri the cas e we a re d i scuss in g ?

19The summons i s o n top and the do c ument b e low th a t i s t h e

20one I am re fe r r ing to .

A Ye s , I t h ink so . It l ooks l i k e it

21

Q Th a nk you . At the t ime o f the e ve nts th a t you

a re complain ing a bout in the l awsu i t t h a t we a r e d is cuss ing

3

today , y our complain t s t a te s in p a rag r a ph 6 t ha t you we re

24

se l f - employed as e n t repreneur a nd ve ntu r e ca p i t a l i s t ; i s25

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2 t h a t t rue?

3 A I 'm not su re what "ven ture c a p i t a l i s t is. I

4 am an en t repreneur . I don t have a c a p i t a l to be a ven tu re

5 c a p i t a l i s t and I know a l o t o f c a p i t a l i s t s with money and

6 I pu t t oge the r a l o t o f dea l s .

7 Q ivhat do you do when you put toge the r dea l s?

8 A I 'm t r y i n g t o put toge the r a magazine . I have

9 rece ived commitments fo r l a rge sums o f money to p u t th i s

10magazine ou t , and because of · t h i s a r t i c l e , I have not bee n

11

ab le to h i r e c e r t a in p a r t i e s who have re fused to work fo r

12me simp ly because o f t h i s a r t i c l e and t h i s kind o f a re p u t a -

13t i on .

14Q ivho has made commitments to f inance your ve n ture

5you a re t e l l i n g us about?

16A Cer ta in people in t he Caribbean .

17Q Who?

18I 'm not going to t e l l you t h a t . I f it becomes

9necessary a t trial , if it i s up fo r ques t ion , I suppose I

20wi ll br ing th es e people i n .

Q I f t h e r e i s going to be a trial, it i s ne c e s s a ry2

fo r you to e s t a b l i s h a b as i s on which to proceed . I a sk

22

you if the b a s i s o f the s ta tements in the compla in t a re

23

t r u e a s to what your income was and if you are t e l l i n g

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me you list spec ific monies , I have to ask you t o id e n t i f y25

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1 Eder 66

2 t he mar i juana bus iness?

3 MR KAHN: I am going to o b jec t to t h a t

4 on the grounds it c a l l s fo r an opin ion which i s

5 not l eg a l l y ma te r i a l o r admiss ib le and t h e r e f o r e

6 it i s not r e l ev an t t o the depos i t i on .

7 Q Your compla in t says in paragraph 6 t h a t a t t he

s t ime o f the even ts complained o f h e r e in you were s e l f -

9 employed as an en t repreneur and ven ture c a p i t a l i s t . Are

10 t he bases you t o l d us about the ex t en t o f your e f f o r t as

11 an en t repreneur and ven ture c a p i t a l i s t t h a t i s the p r o -

12posed magazine the opa l bus iness the b o a t bus iness and

13 the mari juana bus iness? I s t h a t a l l the bus inesses you

14\Vere in

15Let me s t a t e t h i s . Tha t i s c o r re c t ex cep t f o r

16the f a c t t h a t up to th.is p o in t in t ime my a t t o r n ey Mr.

17Marc· Kahn had no i dea o f the f a c t I was in the mar i juana

18bus iness . That i s t he first he l ea rned of t h a t so we w i l l

19c l e a r the record .

20Yes t h a t i s t r u e o ther than having lo s ses• 21

I can only t h i n k o f one lo s s in t he opal bus iness b u t I

can th ink o f t h r ee los ses in t he magazine bus iness .

22Now s ince the money has a l r ead y been p u t up

23

on the magazine I be l i eve t h a t I can prove in a co u r t o f

24

law I have in f a c t been in ju red in the magazine b u s in e s s .25

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Eder 67

2 MR KAHN: For the record , he has a l so

3 t e s t i f ie d e a r l i e r t ha t he i s involved in the ea r

bus ines s .

5 Q The businesses you are t a lk ing about a re in

6 the proposed magazine business and mari juana business and

7 the sympathet ic ea r business? You l o s t business in the

8 ea r

9 I l o s t bus iness in every area because soc i a l

10 ost rac ism took p lace by v i r tue o f t h i s a r t i c l e .

2

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Q

You say you wi l l do - - You mean by t h a t you

have

I th ink I can prove - - we can prove in a cour t

o f law when we p.it people on the s tand , they in f a c t did

not en te r i n to business dea l ings with me o r refused to go

ahead with business deal ings , agreements we had p r i o r to

th i s a r t i c l e appear ing .

Q But in 1978 your t o t a l income was two or t h r e e

hundred dol la r s ; i s t h a t cor rec t?

My s ta tement i s , here again, my s ta tement i s I

keep no records because I d o n t in tend to pay the govern-

ment any taxes on what I earn in any area , so when people

ask me how much money I made l a s t year ; I genera l ly t ll

them l e s s than what it cos t s , l e s s than what the f igu re i s

for paying t axes . That i s how I f igure my income as l e s s

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Eder 69

2 you having made more money than I would have to pay t axes

3 on.

4 I would l i ke to make one po in t

•MR KAHN: On the record he has al ready

6 t e s t i f i e d t ha t he has l o s t business oppor tun i t i e s for

7 inves tment in var ious bus iness ventures which have

8 resu l t ed in l o s t income oppor tuni ty fo r him in the

9 fu ture as well as presen t and pas t .

10 Q How many do l l a r s , approximately , do you fee l

11you l o s t al ready as a r e s u l t of the pub l i ca t ion of t h i s

12 a r t i c l e ?

13 A I d o n t know, but I wil l s t a t e t h i s , t ha t I

14 have one person, one of the t h ree people who I wi l l o r wi l l

15 not give you the names, depending on whether o r not they

16are wi l l ing to give t h e i r names up, and one of these people ,

17s ince the a r t i c l e , refused , changed his mind with regard to

18invest ing 100,000 in a magazine. That i s a subs t an t i a l

19sum of money.

2What i s the name o f the magazine you proposed?

A OUTLAW

•

21

Q I s t ha t about cr iminal bus iness?22

A Yes, .of course . · t i s about those outs ide the23

law.24

25Q Did you discuss these losses and your var ious

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2 b u s in es s lo s se s and l o s t oppo r t u n i t i es wi th your a t t o r ney

3 p r io r to today?

4 MR . KAHN : I am going to objec t to th a t

5 o n the grounds t ha t i s a co n f id en t i a l ma t t e r . That

6 i s n o t s u b j ec t t o y our d i s c lo s u r e . I wi ll ob j ec t t o

7 any l i n e o f q u es t i o n i n g t h a t has to do with what he

8 has discussed with h i s a t t o rn e y a s I am s u re you

9 wou l d .

1 Q I believe you t o l d us you a re a p a r t owner o f

11 a company t h a t owns a boa t ; i s th a t co r rec t?

12A That s c o r r e c t .

T4 13 Q You a re aware I assume your complain t s t t e ~

14in paragraph 6 t h a t you were t h e s o l e owner o f a b o a t i ng

15 and y ach t in g bus iness?

16A Does it s ay t h a t ?

17Q Which i s co r r ec t ?

18A Th a t i s c o r r e c t I own more t han one boat

19Q How many b o a t s ?

20A The company I own , so le ly owns a boa t in Ne w

21York. Okay ?

Q Ri g h t .

22A I own a s mal l p i ece o f an o th e r company th a t owns

23

an o t h e r boa t in the Caribbean . The company t h a t owns t h e24

b o a t in New York i s c a l l e d P i c a re sque .25

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2 Q I s t h a t the e a r bu s i ness ?

3 A But it a l s o owns a b o a t .

4 Q Does t he e a r business use the boa t ?

5 A No.

6 Q Where i s t he boa t in the Caribbean ?

7 A I to ld yo u I won t te ll yo u t h a t

8 Q o you own any pieces o f any o ther boa t ing

9 bus inesses?

10 A No

11Q How much money did Pi caresque make in it s boa t-

12 ing bus in ess i n 1 977 1978?

13 A Picaresque only came i n to bus iness in 1978 and

14 it has not earned any money o f f its boa t ing ve n tu re

15 Q What abou t the o ther boa t ing bus in e s s in the

16Ca r ibbea n t h a t yo u don t wan t to discu s s the l o ca t i o n o ~

17 how much ha s t h a t made ?

18A The company ?

19Q Yes

20A I don t know . Maybe th e company made f ifty

21thou s and l a s t yea r b u t I on l y own a s mall piece o f th a t

22comp any .

Q Yo u didn t de r i v e a ny income f r om t h a t ?23

A Ye s , a f ew do l l a r s , bu t I don t know how much24

Q No t much ?25

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Ede r

2 A Not much . Again we a re back to the que s t i o n

3 of what my f inances are , which could go to the In terna l

4 Reven ue Serv ice and t he re fo re , I don ' t wan t t o do t h a t

5 and I don ' t wan t t o l i e , bu t - -

6 Q I unders tand your pos ition , but when it say s

7 in par ag rap h 6 you were t he owne r a nd success fu l o p e ra t o r

8 o f a boat ing a nd yach t ing bu s i nes s , doe s t ha t re fe r to t he

9 bus ines s which made no money o r the bus iness wh i c h made

10some money? · Which bu s in e s s do e s t ha t r e fe r to t ha t wa s

11su ccess ful?

12A I f I am the so l e owner t ha t i s the bus ines s 1

13 t ha t i s the successfu l business . That would have to be

14Pi caresq ue o f New York .

5Q That made no money from the boat ing bus ines s?

16A -That ' s r i g h t .

17Q Do you con tend the a llega t i on in paragraph 6

18t ha t yo u we re the success fu l opera to r o f th i s bus ines s i s

19meant to re ad t ha t i n fac t it wa s a money-making bus iness ?

A20

No . The word success fu l does no t mean money-

21makin g .

Q Wha t do e s it mean?22

A t means if i s not unsucce s s f u l . t i s in23

busine s s and it i s opera t ing a nd it i s a succes s . I ce r -

24

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1 Ede r

2 o f the term succ e s s , bu t su c cess i s onlv co nnoted by

mos t l awyer s as being monetary . A sucGes s fu l perso n i s

4 not necessa ri l y a wea l t hy person.

5 Q In paragraph 7 o f your complaint it say s you

6 had a good reput a t io n fo r t r u th fu ln ess , worthiness an d

7 good cha r ac t e r . Which group o f peop l e held t ha t op i n i on

8 o f you?

9 A Out l aws .

10 Q So you mean , when you say a mong you r f r i end s

11 and bus iness assoc ia t es , in paragraph 7 , you mea n o the r

2peop le invo lved in v io l a t i ng t he mari juana law prev ious l y

3 held you in high e s t eem?

4A That i s co r re c t .

15Q Are yo u t a lk ing abo u t anybody e l s e ?

16A I ' m t a lk ing about people ou ts id e . o f t ha t , a s

17we l l

8Q o a r e t he peop l e t ha t h e ld t h i s opin ion o f

19you?

20] \ Outs ide t h e mar i juana bus i nes s1

Q Ins ide o r out s id e , would you t e ll us who it i s21

th a t you be lieve fe lt you h ad a good r epu t a t i o n fo r t r u th -

22fu lness , wor th iness and good cha r ac t e r ?

23

A Almost everyone I knew .24

Q Most o f the people yo u knew were in t he25

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2 mari juana bus ines s , I guess ; i s t h a t t rue?

3 A No, not most o f them. I would say - -

4 Q l lhat you a re r e a l l y complaining about in t h i s

• 5 case i s the l o ss o f f a i t h of the people in the mar i juana

6 bus iness who prev ious ly be l i eved you were an hones t o u t -

7 law and came to be l i eve , through the a r t i c l e

8 A That i s only p a r t o f it. The o ther p a r t i s

9 the people t h a t come in con tac t with me on an every day

10 bas i s I want it c l e a r t h a t no mat te r what my complaint

11 says , my complaint was drawn by my a t t o r n ey .

12Q Do you agree wi th i t ? I s it t rue?

13 A Yes, it i s t r u e bu t it i s not t he main t h r u s t

of my argument. The main t h r u s t o f my argument i s t h i s

15 man mal ic ious ly c a l l e d me a government informant and the

16soc ie ty in which we l i v e , a government informant i s a man

17who puts ano ther man in pr i son fo r himsel f and i s looked

18upon as a p i ranha , and t h a t i s the t h r u s t o f my argument

19here . All the r e s t o f it you a re j u s t k i l l i n g t ime he re

20by David Michaels going through the garbage . You are going• 21through sheer nugatory verb iage in an a t tempt to maybe

j u s t i f y your f ee , I d o n t know, but whatever t he po in t i s ,

you a re not touching on any o f the r e a l t h ings . The r e a l23

t h ing i s t h i s man mal ic ious ly a t tempted to h u r t me in p r i n t24

5and he did so with l i e s and t h a t i s what I am f i g h t i n g . He

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e l l s me I have to show f inanc ia l danages .

3 Q You are r e f e r r ing to your at torney?

4 A My at torney t e l l s me I have to show f i na nc i a l

• 5 damages. I am saying t ha t may be the case , but as th ings

6 s tand , it i s d i f f i c u l t fo r me to show f inanc ia l damages,

7 bu t it i s going to be very easy for me t o show I was

8 damaged soc i a l l y .

9 Q In fac t , i s n ' t it imposs ib le for you to show

10 f inanc ia l damage?

11 MR KAHN: Objec t ion .

12 A It s very easy for me to show f inanc ia l damage

13 with the magazine venture . I have one person, if he i s

14 w i l l i ng to l e t me use his name, wil l ing to s tep fo r th in

15 t h i s case , one person who i s w i l l i ng to s t a t e t ha t two days

r16 a f t e r th i s a r t i c l e appeared in The Vil lage Voice, he ca l led

17me up and t o ld me, Hey, Chic, fo rge t i t .

18Q So what you are t e l l i n g us i s i n f ac t t ha t you

19may o r may not be able to show f inanc ia l damages, bu t your

20rea l concern i s• 21

22

MR KAHN: Object ion . He al ready s t a t ed

he can show f inanc ia l damages.

23A The prime t h rus t i s no t f inanc ia l damage. The

24prime t h r u s t of my case i s I have been damaged on a s oc i a l

25l eve l and malic ious ly , through l i ab le , so we can save a l o t

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Eder 76

2 o f t ime. My case i s , t h i s i s what I assume discovery i s

3 a l l about and t ak ing a depos i t ion fo r discovery i s to

4 f ind out what I am s t a t ing . My case aga ins t Weberman my

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case agains t Weberman i s simply I stopped se l l i ng him

mari juana. I so ld Weberman mari juana for r e sa l e and so ld

t to him i n qua n t i t i e s for r e sa l e and I stopped s e l l i n g

him marijuana fo r re sa le in quant i ty and the re fore , he

malic ious ly a t tacked me in a newspaper and de l i be ra t e l y

l i ed and malic ious ly a t tacked me in th i s pub l i ca t ion and

I have been damaged by t h a t on a soc i a l l eve l as well as

a f inanc ia l l eve l .

Q I s n t t t r ue t ha t most o f the f inanc ia l l o sses

you are claiming are losses to your mari juana bus iness?

A I d o n t want to say most o r l e a s t o r anything .

I am saying I have been hur t i n the marijuana bus iness and

I have also been hur t in the magazine bus iness and also

been hur t in the opal bus iness and I am s t a t i ng t h a t i s

what i s going on here . I d o n t want to play any games.

To cont inue what I am t ry ing to say , Mr.

Michaels i s I fee l you are pu t t ing up a smoke screen . At

t h i s po in t , what we are dea l ing with i s the f a c t t h a t I have

been damaged. My content ion i s I have been damaged mal ic i -

ous ly by A J . Weberman s oc i a l l y primari ly and bus iness

secondar i ly .

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2 Do you want to deal wi th it based on t ha t

3 open and honest s tatement?

4 Q I wi l l dea l with the ques t ions . You dea l with

• 5 the answers and tha t i s the format for today, if t h a t i s

6 a l l r i gh t with you.

7 A Right on.

8 Q I want to show you an e xh ib i t at tached to your

9 p l a i n t i f f s complaint in t h i s ac t ion , t h a t be ing a photo-

10 copy o f The Vil lage Voice concerning an a r t i c l e . My ques-

11 t ion i s whether t h i s in fac t i s the a r t i c l e you a re com-

12 p la in ing about?

13 A Yes, t ha t i s it.

14 Q Does it say within t ha t a r t i c l e t h a t you were

15 a DEA informant?

16 A I bel ieve the words ·are high l eve l EDA ...

17MR KAHN: I objec t to any ques t ions wi th-

18 ou t showing him a copy o f the a r t i c l e , so we know what

19you a re t a lk ing about .

20A That s the a r t i c l e . Now, it s r i g h t here .

21Go ahead, what i s your ques t ion?

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Q It says within the a r t i c l e you were a DEA in -

formant?23

24A No, it doe s n t . It says based on the t es t imony

25o f Chic Eder, a high l eve l informant .

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Ede r 78

Q Were you o r were you not in the l i m i te d work

with th a t agency which you have descr ibe d to us a high

l e ve l info rmant?

A Aga in a t such t ime as you ques t ion a DEA age n t

with regard t o what t h e i r l eve l s a re you might be ab l e to

a s c e r t a i n whethe r t i s a h i g h l eve l o r low l eve l . Okay ?

Q Did you not t e l l us before t h a t s e c ur i t y o f

t he i r personnel and th e r in fo rmat ion was a very impo r t a n t

pr io r i t y fo r t h a t agency?

A Yes I s t a t e d t ha t the on ly two th ings t hey

were more concerned with th a n a r r e s t and conv ic t ion .we re

those two fac to rs . Aga in a s to whether t i s a high l eve l

DEA info r man t I a m no t argu ing the po i n t . I did do b u s i -

ness with the Drug Enfo rcemen t Admin is t ra t io n and I am no t

arguing t ha t po i n t a t a l l .

; -Q You o i i ~ in fac t ?

A Of cour s e I have . The po i n t i s now th e poin t

you are b e l ab o r ing i s high l eve l . I have a n swered t h e ques -

t i o n t h a t I c a nnot s t a t e wha t l eve l I was . V0 u w ll h ave

to ask t he DEA . Okay?

Q Fine . Yvhere in t h a t a r t i c l e do you f ind an

all ega t ion th a t you r ece ive d f in anc i a l rewards fo r in fo rming

o n Tom Fo rcade ? Would yo u po i n t out the place in th a t

a r t i c l e wh ere t i s s t a t e d and i mp l e d ?


15 P AR K R O W N.Y. 10 03 6 PHONES 349-3 106 - 9



Eder 79

2 A It s t a t e s it nega t ive ly . There i s an in fe rence .

3 By use of informant , there i s i n f e r r e d in t ha t the f ac t o f

4 payment by the government.

·5 Q In fac t , monetary payment? In fac t , when you

6 were a DE informant , what you received by way of considera-

7 t ion was your re lease from j a i l ; i s t ha t not t rue?

8 A That i s not t r ue . What I received was a quash-

9 ing o f a case aga ins t me.

1Q ~ t f inanc ia l reward?

11A

Not f i na nc i a l .

12Q In f ac t , you know in formants are also rewarded

13in nonf inanc ia l ways?

14A No ques t ion about it l\That we are s ta t ing ,

15again , i s i n f e r r e d in t ha t i s the payment from the govern-

ment.16

17Q Simply by use of t he word informant ?

18A Yes. It i s my con ten t ion t h a t i s i n f e r r e d by ·

19a grea te r number of people .

20Q In fac t , you never gave the government any

f a l se informat ion on Tom Forcade because you never gave• 21

them any informat ion on Tom Forcade; i s t ha t cor rec t?

22A Th a t s correc t .

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Q Where in t h a t a r t i c l e do you f ind any i n fe rence

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1 Eder 8 0

2 A Excuse me Le t me t r y t h i s aga in .

3 Aga in , you a re g e t t i n g cu te , and I am not

4 t a lk ing abou t your face . It says h ere in 1977 a Fe dera l

5 grand ju r y in Brooklyn b egan a n in ves t i ga t i on c o n c e rning

6 Tom Forcade . That p a r t o f it ; t ha t i s a quote and th a t

7 p a r t o f it has noth ing to do with me , w ~ t h r th e y s t a r t e d

8 a n in ves t i ga t ion o r not i s no t none o f my bus i ne ss .

9 Q Do you know whether th a t i s t rue ?

10 A No , I don t know whether th a t i s t rue . The

11 ne x t p a r t says , Base d on t e s t imo ny o f Chic Eder . . • , I

12 am not su re of the l ega l d e f i n i t i o n o f le ga l t e s t im ony

13 bu t I know wha t p e ople b e l i ev e tes t imony i s and t es t imony

14 i s t h a t yo u s wear o r you give in fo rma t i o n aga inst some -

I

15body You t e s t i f y aga in s t someone and I am s t a t i n g t h a t

16ca tegor i ca l l y , a t no t ime have I ever t e s t i f i e d fo r ·a

17g r and j u ry in New York o r fo r t h a t mat te r , t o t he b e s t o f

18my knowle dge , anywhere . Okay? So t h a t i s my co n te n t io n .

19You a r e t ry ing to dea l w ith a h i gh l eve l DE informa n t and

20I wan t to d e a l with t he c r ux o f t he case , which i s based o n

- 21the tes t imony o f Chic Eder .

22

You ' re s t a t i n g - - I 'm say ing in co u r t - - I want

23t o s t a t e in cour t t ha t Webe rman h as sa id t ha t I have give n

24t e s t imony in a Brook l yn Fede ra l grand ju ry in 1977 and I

25am s t a t i n g t h a t i s the b a s i s o f my case , t ha t I h a ve no t

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Eder Jgiven test imony aga ins t Forcade o r anybody e l se o r any

3 grand jury o r any o ther p lace . So i you want to - - My

4 ques t ion to you i s , have we dea l t with high l eve l DEA in -

•5 formant?

6 Q My ques t ion to you, s i r , i s whether the a l l ega -

7 t ion of paragraph 10 b) o f your complaint i s t rue? That

8 a l l ega t ion says the a r t i c l e inc luded, a t l e a s t by t he

9 unders tanding of a reader , tha t you l a id a fa l se charge .

10 So I am asking you where in the a r t i c l e do you f ind any

11 a l lega t ion of f a l s i t y?

12 MR KAHN: Excuse me - -

13 A I did not g ive any tes t imony, so we may have

l4 made an e r ro r in t ha t with regard to fa lse t es t imony. I

15 haven t given any t es t imony.

16 MR KAHN: You are asking Mr. Eder to

17address ce r t a i n th ings

18MR MICHAELS: I am asking i his com-

19p l a i n t i s t r ue and - -

20MR KAHN: I t h ink h i s answer i s yes .

Off the record

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Discussion o f f the r ecord . )

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MR MICHAELS: Back on the record .23

Q Paragraph lO b) of the complaint says t h a t the24

25reasonable in fe rence from the a r t i c l e you a re complaining

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inubou t was t h a t yo u l a id a f a l s e info r ma t ion

3 Forcade . I s t ha t you r pos i t i on today o r i s it you r pos i

4 t i on t hat the in fe rence here t h a t you are comp l a i nin g o f ,

5 t ha t you gave any informa t i on , true o r fa l s e - -

6 A It should be both .

7 Q Where do you f ind any in ference f r om t he

8 a r t i c l e t h a t you gave f a l se informat ion?

9 A I d o n t .

10 Q I m sorry?

11 A But I th ink my a t to rney does .

12 Off the r e cord .

13 (Discussion o f f the re cord.)

14 MR . KAHN : Back on the record .

15A I don ' t know wha t i s go ing on , whe t h e r it

16should be fa l s ·e in fo rmat ion , using the t e rm as he i s

17using it and i n fo rma t ion as opposed to a n in<lictment i n

18a cr imina l proceed in g . I don ' t kn ow wh e th e r he i s do ing

19t ha t .

20MR. AHN : I am i nd ica t ing 'i:he te rm us e d

e 21

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in those two paragra phs, lO b ) and (c) , are used as

a term o f a r t to desc r ibe a l ega l proceed i ng i nvo lv -

23ing an inve s t i ga t ion , an d he i s no t qual i f i e d to

discuss it as a term o f a r t .24

MR MICHAELS : I s the word f a l se a t e r m25

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Eder 83

2 of a r t?

3 MR. KAHN: Yes, the word fa l se , in

4 connect ion with t he cr iminal informat ion , i s a te rm

• 5 o f a r t .

6 MR. MICHAELS: What do you def ine t h a t

7 to mean, fo r the purposes of subparagraph lO b)?

8 MR Y AHN: I am suggest ing t ha t means

9 tha t the in fe rences from t h i s a r t i c l e are t h a t he

10 went to a grand ju ry and s t imula ted an informat ion

11 o f Forcade for some cr iminal ac t iv i ty for which t he

12grand ju ry was s i t t i ng ; and the impl ica t ion through-

13 out the a r t i c l e was t ha t any charges he might have

14 l eve led aga ins t Forcade would have been fa l se and

15therefore he placed a fa l se information a ga ins t

16Forcade.

17MR MICHAELS: Where in the a r t i c l e do

18you f ind t he .ba s i s for the infe rences? What word

19suggests f a l s i t y?

20MR. KAHN: The en t i r e paragraph in which• 21

tha t s ta tement appears

Off the record .

22

Discussion o f f the record . )23

THE WITNESS: On the record . y con-24

t en t ion i s t h a t I have a t no t ime t e s t i f i ed a ga ins t25

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1 Eder 84

2 Forcade in any th ing much l e s s than a Brooklyn grand

3 j u ry . My a t to rney may o r may not be mis taken in t he

4 use o f the term f a l s e . t has nothing to do with

5 my compla in t . My complain t i s , I did not t e s t i f y a t

6 a l l and he has c la imed t h a t I have t e s t i f i e d and t h a t

7 i s where the fa l seness l i e s , as f a r as I am concerned .

8 BY MR MICHAELS:

9 Q Your complain t says in paragraph lO(d) , your

10 complain t inc ludes a s ta tement t h a t the a r t i c l e you compla in

11 about has , as one o f its reasonab le i n fe rences fo r t he

12 average r eader , t h a t you were r espons ib le fo r caus ing an

13 a i r p l an e crash in which one Jack Combs

14 A t d o es n ' t say t h a t in the a r t i c l e . There i s

15 j u s t a Jack, not Combs At t h a t t ime , my con ten t ion i s ,

16Mr Weberman did· not know t he l a s t name He c e r t a i n l y

17d i d n ' t know where Jack crashed .

18Q When you say in your compla in t t h a t the a r t i c l e

19t h a t you are compla ining about says t ha t you caused the

2plane crash , I am ask ing where in the a r t i c l e do you f ind

21t h a t ?

22

A t i s impl ied .

MR KAHN: I w i l l answer t h a t fo r him23

24because t he a r t i c l e itself i s r i p e with i n f e r en ces .

25Tom Forcade was t h e o b j ec t o f var ious forms o f

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Eder 85

2 government harassment and persecut ion and a l l aspects

3 of government tha t had anything to do with the law

4 enforcement and l i nk ing Mr. Eder s name to the EDA

5 in the sense he was a l l eged ly respons ib le for in -

6 s t i t u t i n g an inves t iga t ion in t e s t i fy ing aga ins t

7 him, Mr. Forcade, a t the grand jury and l ink ing his

8 associa t ion to the DEA to the inser t ion of the

9 a r t i c l e tha t Tom to ld Mr. Weberman t h a t he be l ieved

10 the DEA Special Operat ions Divis ion may have sabotaged

11 Jack s a i r c r a f t , would sugges t to an average reade r ,

12 reading the en t i r e a r t i c l e f a i r l y , t ha t Mr. Eder was

13 somehow t i ed in to th i s and responsib le for t h i s .

14Q The Jack i s Jack someone else?

15A Ask him. I d i d n t wri te the a r t i c l e , he did .

16Q Did you ever have any contac t with DEA s Specia l

17Operat ions Divis ion?

18A No, I have never had any contac t , except wi th

19one person in DEA

20Q Who i s tha t?• 21A I d o n t remember his name but I ce r t a in ly wi l l

ca l l the DEA and f ind out about t before the case c loses .

22Do you know?

23

Q You mean to say you gave - -24

A His name i s Don. One primary person with whom25

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Eder 87

2 for tha t . Going on beyond t h i s , I wi l l s t a r t a t the be-

3 ginning of the paragraph and th i s i s one paragraph.

4 In 1977, a Federa l grand jury in Brooklyn began

5 an i nves t iga t ion concerning Tom Forcade, based on the t e s -

6 t imony of Chic Eder , a high l eve l DEA who has been charac -

7 t e r ized as Mr. Mari juana in severa l magazine a r t i c l e s . The

3 very next sentence , The pressu re began to bu i ld and Tom

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s t a r t ed going i n to per iods o f extreme depress ion . He would

assume a f e t a l pos i t i on , cover himself with a shee t , and

remain l i ke t ha t for days .

t goes on to s t a t e he a t one point , ' ' he took

an overdose o f Qualudes and stumbled over to Gabrie l Schang'

apartment where he co l l apsed . Gabrie l and her f r iend , .

Jim Turgus, who worked in Tom's book s to r e across from

Gabrie l ' s apar tment , took him to Bel levue where his

stomach was pumped.

This i s s t a t ed i n one paragraph. That my

test imony - - I am reading from t h i s paragraph t h a t my

test imony was in f ac t d i r ec t ly r espons ib le for Tom's

death .

Q That i s the paragraph t ha t you f ind leads the

reader to bel ieve you were d i rec t l y r espons ib le fo r his

death?.

A That i s correc t .

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1 Ede r

2 Q Paragraph 17, you s ta t e th a t you were i n ju r e d

3 t o the sum o f 1 mil l ion .

4 How do you compu te t ha t?

5 A Because I assume the o ne hundre d t ho usand t h a t

6 fe l low wa s w i l l in g to pu t in to my magazine would have made

7 a t l eas t 1 mi l l i o n by the end o f t he yea r .

8 Q That i s the bas i s fo r th a t ca l cu l a t io n?

9 A Tha t s r i gh t .

10 Q Wha t makes you th ink t ha t Mr . Ryan ,· Mis s

11 Par t r idge , Mr . Mu rdoch and The Vil lage Vo i ce , Inc . were

12 so l e l y mot iv a te d by animosi ty and ha t re d fo r you? P ar a -

13 graph 21.

14 A We ll, I am not say ing t h a t . I do n t know wha t

15 my lawyer wrote h e re . My sta temen t i s - -

16 MR . KAHN : Off the reco rd .

17Discuss ion o f f the r e cord . )

18R . I AHN : Back on the record .

19A My s ta t em e n t i s t h a t A. J . Weberman wa s

20mo tiva ted by an imosi ty and ha t red fo r the p l a i n t i f f a nd

21I f ee l the o t he r defendant s in the c ase had , the o the r

22

defendants in the c as e did not ch eck the v e ra c i t y o f A. J .

23Weberman s s to ry and they have, based o n A. J . Weberrnan s

24repu t a t ion in the world o f j ou rna l i sm o r in t he l i t e r a ry

25wor ld and on c e r t a in o th e r t h i ng s tha t a r e wide ly known

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regard to his ~n the publ i sh ing i ndus t ry , with

3 and with regard to his j ou rna l i s t i c c r ed ib i l i t y , they

4 should have checked A. J Weberman ext remely c lose be fo re

•5 pr in t ing anything t ha t A. J . Weberman might have submit ted .

6 Q Would you now withdraw the a l l ega t ion o f pa ra -

7 graph 21 tha t t he o the r defendants , The Vil lage Voice, Inc . ,

8 Ryan and Par t r idge and Murdoch were so le ly motivated by

9 animosi ty and ha t red fo r you and t h e i r sole purpose fo r

1 publ i sh ing was to i n ju r e you and cause dis t ress?

11 MR KAHN: The response to the ques t ion

12 i s no.

13 Off the r ecord .

14 Discuss ion of f the record . )

15MR MICHAELS: Back on the r ecord .

16Q Whether in f ac t the a l l e ga t ion o f paragraph 21

17of the· complaint i s tended to r e l a t e only to the defendant

18Weberman or whether you wou].d amend it to dele te the

19a l l ega t ion o f mal ic ious an imosi ty and hatred presented by

2the o ther defendants , t ha t i s the quest ion .

•

21A Yes, I would l i ke to amend my s ta tement .

Q You mean the complaint?

23A Amend t h i s complaint so paragraph 21 only dea l s

with the defendant Weberman in t h i s case . I m sor ry , t he re24

i s an e r ro r i n th i s case and the e r ro r i s mine for no t25

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1Eder

2having proper ly communicated t h i s to my a ttorne y .

3th ink Weberman acted in t h i s manner.

4I f e e l in paragraph 22 - -

5MR KAHN:

Offthe record .

6Di s cuss ion o f f the r e c o rd . )

7 R KAHN: On the r ecord .

8THE WITNESS: Th ere seems to

9 be a l a ck o f commun i c a t i on on my p a r t with my

10 a t t orney.

11 On paragraph 21, I do not hones t ly

12 be l i eve t h a t the defendants were so le ly mot iva ted

13 by mal ic ious animosi ty and ha t red .

14 I be l ieve A. J . We be rman i s t he s i ng le

15 defendan t who was mot iva ted by mal ic ious an imos i ty

16 a nd ha t red . The r e s t o f paragraph 21 should only

17 read A J . Weberrnan. I don ' t h o n es t ly be lieve t h e re

18 was a ny consp i racy a foo t ,

19 I d o n ' t th ink Weberrnan went to thes e

20 peop le a t The Vi l l age Voice and sa i d , 11 Le t s ge t

21 Chic Eder . And I t h in k he went to The Vi l l age

22

Voice and so ld them on t h i s a r t i c l e an d happened

23 to get them to go along with h i s program to

24mal ic ious ly ge t me in pr i n t .

25

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Eder 91

2 My argument i s a t t h i s po in t t h a t I would

3 l i ke to make a s ta tement for . the record , on paragraph

4 21: It i s only A. J . Weberman whose mot ivat ion was

•5 th i s .

6 On paragraph 22 I am going to ask my

7 a t to rney , on paragraphs 22 and 23 to de le t e the

8 conspiracy simply because I d o n t be l ieve a con-

9 spi racy did in f ac t e x i s t .

1 My at torney i s concerned with the f ac t

11 t ha t I say t h i s on the record and tha t some judge

12 might look a t t ha t and say t ha t if he i s so wi l l i ng

13 to amend · ha t i s going on here . What i s going on

14 here i s the mistake i s mine. I al lowed t h i s to go

15 i n to the cour t in th i s manner without having read

16it. I d o n t bel ieve 22 and 23 are va l id . My a t to rney

17did a t tha t t ime. Since we went in the o ther room

18and discussed it I don t . He still fee l s the re may

19have been something in t ha t area , but I fee l if I

20l eave t h i s complaint as it s tands , Mr. Michae l s

•21

22

be ing a l awyer wi l l make a big i s sue ou t o f t h i s

r a the r than what the r ea l i s sue i s . lve gave him an

i s sue t h a t a l lows it to be clouded. I d o n t want to23

24

deal wi th t ha t . I want to change paragraph 21 to

25read so le ly A. J . Weberman and 22 and 23 I want to I

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Eder 92

2 de le te . That i s a l l I am saying . \3 Q t may be somewhat i r r egu la r , so l e t me commend

4 you for answering candid ly .and for allowing us to c l a r i fy

•5 t h i s .

6 When I prev ious ly inqu i red to your a t to rney

7 what the complaint was about , he t o l d me he was unwi l l ing

8 to answer the ques t ion and t ha t we would have to wai t u n t i l

9 today to f ind out .

1 I commend you t ha t when it was brought to your

11 a t t e n t ion , tha t you c or r e c t it so we can concentra te on

12 the rea l i s sue .

13 A I d o n t want to cloud the rea l case wi th a

l4 fa l se case.

15 Q n paragraph 24 it s t a t e s you sus ta ined ac tua l

16damages of a mil l ion do l l a r s ask fo r a quar t e r of a mil l ion

17in puni t ive damages because o f t he conspiracy between A. J .

18h'eberman and The Vil lage Voice and. the o ther defendants .

19Would it be your s ta tement t ha t in f ac t p a ra -

20graph 24 therefore would have to be amended a lso?

•

21A Paragraph 24 has nothing to do with the con-

22

sp i racy .

23Q Is t ha t the same 1 mil l ion you were t e l l i n g

us about before t ha t you hoped and expected would be p ro -24

25duced from the 100,000 through the publ i sh ing?

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193

2 A No, t h i s i s i n ju r y a nd damage .

3 Q ow did you compute the 1 mi l l i on in p a rag raph

4 24 ?

5 A One m il l io n i s based on the mil l ion I would

6 have made with t h e magaz i ne , and the o th e r one i s d amages .

7 That i s wha t we are t a lk ing about in pa rag raph 24 .

8 Q Excuse me , I am n o t c l ea r abo u t wh a t your

9 answer i s .

10 The mi l l i o n d o l l a r s t h a t a re asked .fo r ~

11 paragraph 17 you have t o l d us was money yo u would have

12 ho pe d to make f rom a magazi ne ven ture wh i ch was e f f e c t i ve ly

13 k i l l e d by the pu b l i c a t i o n o f t h i s a r t i c l e ?

14 A Th a t s c o r r e c t .

15 Q The mi l l i o n do l l a r s on paragraph 24 , wha t

16 mi l l i o n d o l la r s i s it t h a t you a c tua l ly lo s t t h e r s ; i s it

17the same?

18A The re a re two mi l l io ns o n paragraph 24.

19Q I am ta lk ing abou t th e a c tua l damage a l l ega t i on ,

20not t he pun i t i v e a l l e 0 a t i o n .

21A The f i r s t a c t u a l l y wa s the m i l l i o n d o l l a r s I

22

assume d I wou ld h ave made wi t h the magazine and no t l o s t

t he 100 , 000 i n v es to r .23

24Q That i s fo r paragraph 17 o r 24 o r are they t he

25s ame? I am t r y i n g to c l a r i f y i it i s t he same mi l l i o n

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Eder94

2

3

do l l a rs o r a d i f f e r e n t damage you sus ta ined?

A The same one.

4 MR KAHN : Off the record .

5 Di scuss ion o f f the record . )

6 MR. MICHAELS : a ~ k on the r ecord .

7 Q In l i ne with what you have t o ld us to c l a r i f y

8 the accuracy o f t he compla in t wo uld I be c or r e c t in b e -

9 l i ev ing you wou ld a l s o wish to make c e r t a in changes w i th in

10 paragraph 6 which charges t h a t each o f the d e fendan t s d id

unlawfu l ly plan p l o t and consp i re between themse lves to

12 publ i sh f a l s e l i a b l e and defamatory sta tem e nt s? I s t

13 each o f the defendants t h a t unlawful ly consp re d to do

14 t ha t o r only Mr . Weberman?

15A Paragraph 6?

16Q Twenty-six , I am so r ry .

7 A Twenty-s ix . I th ink 26 has to remain .

18 MR . KAHN: Off the record .

19Discuss ion o f f the record . )

20MR . KAHN : On the record .

21Th e answe r to the ques t ion i s no .

2

A We do no t wish to change t fo r t h i s re a son .

Te l l him t he reason.23

24

25

MR . KAHN: Because our presen t b e l i e f

i s tha t the d efendan t s did plan to publ s h and d i d IBLITZ REPORT ING CO

\ PARK ROW. N .Y \ 0 038 PHONES 3 49 3 \ 0B - 9



Eder 95

2 in f ac t pub l i sh , in The Vil lage Voice, the f a l se ,

3 malicious s ta tement .

4 Q Referr ing again to paragraph 26; i s it your

•5 be l i e f tha t each o f the o ther defendants consp i red bet1veen

6 themselves to i n t en t i ona l l y pub l i sh fa l se information?

7 A I f you a re asking me whether I be l ieve they

s s a t down with A. J . Weberman and sa id , Let ' s go ge t th i s

9 guy, i I bel ieved t h a t , I thought

1 Q ·You do be l i eve the word conspiracy in para -

11 graph 26?

12A However, i my a t to rney sa id , i they s a t down

3 with Weberman and t a lked with Weberman in regard to t h i s

14and checked it and did not check it tha t i s a l awyer ' s

5argument and I wi l l l e t t he lawyers argue. My po in t i s - -

16I want it c l ea r . This i s my depos i t ion here - - I f ee l the

17o ther defendants I f ee l A. J . Weberman has mal ic ious ly

18at tempted to a t t ack me in t h i s s i t ua t i on and t hese people

19e i the r ac t ive ly

2Q You mean the o the r defendants?

•

21

22

A The o ther defendants in the case e i t he r

ac t ive ly o r pass ive ly conspi red to go along with his pro-

gram, to al low - - 3

Q Are you c la iming they knew the informat ion was24

fa l se or . they f i l ~ d · t o check w h ~ n they should have?25

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3

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6

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8

9

10

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12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

e 21

22

23

24

25

Eder r ; ; 6·

/A What I am say ing here -- Off the re cord .

Discuss ion o f f the record . )

MR MICHAELS: Back on the r ec ord .

Q Ar e you c la iming t ha t The Vil lage Voice con-

sp i red to

MR KAHN: The c la im i s - -

MR MICHAELS: Unl e s s you a re going on

under oa th , I ha ve to ask the wi tness .

A I can t say under oath I know they con s p i r e d

in the s e nse o f the word.I

know they consp i re d t o be - -

What I am s a ying i s , my fe e l i n g i n h e re n t in t h i s p a ra graph

26 i s the f a c t t h a t they did pub l i sh t h i s i n fo rma t i o n and

if they d i d n t know t h a t it was fa l s e , they sh ould have

known it was f a l s e so they s hould a t l eas t , s h ould have

checked it p r i o r to having it publ i shed.

Q Thank you.

A Nex t ?

Q i·mere do you f ind in the a r t i c l e publ i sh e d by

The V i l l age Voice t h a t t h is whole c as e conc e rns - - r

do you f ir id t he s t a t e me n t o r impl ic a t i on t ha t you commit t ed

pe r ju ry b e fo r e a g ra nd j u ry , a s a l l eged in Ar t i c l e 28?

A I d o n t f ind t h a t .

Q Wh e re do you f ind the a l l ega t i o n t h a t you con -

s p i red to murder Forcade s f r i e nd J a ck?

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Eiler 97

2 A I th ink t ha t i s inheren t in the r e . We have I3 answered t h a t ques t io n .

4

5

6

Q Wh ere do you f ind the a llega t ion th a t you con -

sp i red to commit a burg la ry a t Forcade s a par tment?

A Same t h ing .

I7 Q Where do you f ind in t h i s a r t i c l e a ny accusa -

8 t i o n t ha t you committed any crime?

9 Paragraph 29 o f t he comp l a i n t r e f e r s t o a n

10 a l l ega t ion wi t h i n the a r t i c l e o f you r cr imina l conduct a nd

11 I am ask ing you what words in t he a r t i c le seem to you to

12 be i nd ica t ive o f an accusa t ion t ha t you committed a c r ime ?

13 A That i s i n h e r en t in t h e re , when he i s t a l k i n g

14 abou t me a s being Mr . - - F i r s t o f a l l , I see it I can

15 ag r ee with t h a t . As soon as he t a lks abou t me be i ng Mr .

16 Marij ua na , the magazine a r t i c l e , with regard to t h a t , d e a l t

17with t ha t cr imina l conduct .

18Q In o t h e r words , t he cr imina l conduct p h ra se

19wi t h i n paragraph 29 r e f e r s to mari juana ve ntu re s and no t

20t o a ny a l l e ga t i o n in t h e s to r y t h a t you commit te d a pe r j u r y

21be fore a grand j u ry , c a used the c r a s h o f an a i rp l a ne ,

22murder o r burg la ry o r any th ing e l s e ?

MR KAHN : Off t he r e cord .23

Discu s s ion o f f the record .24

A On the r ecord . It s t a t e s in t h i s a r t i c l e th a t -25

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1 Eder 98

2 The a r t i c l e put s me and the DEA as synonymous . The

3 a r t i c l e fu r t h e r s t a t e s t h a t Weberman be l ieved the DEA

4 burgled Forcade ' s apartmen t and t he DEA caus e d the d e a th

5 of J ack . So if I am in f a c t , if I am seen as be ing p a r t

6 o f the DEA then the i n f e rence i s I a l s o was p a r t o f th a t

7 Q Where it says in paragraph 29 th a t the accusa -

8 t i ons o f cr imina l conduct t h a t you i n f e r from t he a r t i c l e

9 were publ i shed by the d e f e ndan ts - - I be l i eve the word

10 should · rea d mal ice , in t h a t they we re publi shed with

11 k n o w l e g ~ of t h e i r f a l s i t y o r se r ious doubts as to t h e i r

12 t r u th . Do you i n t end to a l l e g e t h a t The Vil lage Voice,

13 Ryan Murdoch and Par t r idge h ave ac tua l mal ice a nd knew

14 t he s ta tements were f a l s e o r had se r ious doubts as to

15 t h e i r t ru th?

16A Yes I mean t h a t p a rt Yes t h a t i s d e f i n i t e .

17Q As a r e s u l t o f t h i s a r t i c l e you c la im in para -

18 graph 30 t ha t you were he ld up a nd expo s ed to pu b l i c con -

19temp t

20 Are you speak ing about the a r t i c le itself o r

2about some o ther expos ure to pub l ic contempt and scorn and

r i d i c u l e t h a t resu lted from the a r t i c l e ?

22

23A That i s wha t I am t a lk ing ahout .

24Q Do you me an by t h i s a r t i c l e o r by something

25e l s e t h a t r e su l t e d from the a r t i c l e ?

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Eder 99

2 A I don t know what yo u a re t a l k i n g abo u t .

Q I will rephrase t h e que st ion .

4 Were you say ing in paragraph 30 t h a t you wer e

5 h e l d up a n d e xposed t o pub l i c contempt , scorn and r i d i c u l e ?

6 Do yo u mean by the pub lic a t i o n o f t h i s a r t i c l e o r do you

7 mea n t he p u b l i ca t i o n o f t h i s a r t i c l e caused some o th e r

8 humi l ia t ing even t to occur and caused p eople to s c o r n and

9 condemn you ?

10 A The l a t t e r . The publ i c a t i o n o f t h e art i c l e

ca usedit

12 Q From whom did con t empt and scorn and r i d i c u l e

13come ?

14 A My con temporar ies ; my p ee r s .

15 Q Was th e r e any p a r t i c u l a r perso n t h a t expresse d

16sco rn contempt and r i d i cu l e , b e s ide s the ones you h ave

17a l r ead y t o ld us abo u t ?

18A Numero us people . Enough s o t h i s i s a v a l id

19p arag raph . Maybe t en f i ft e e n twen ty p e o p le .

20Q Could yo u g i ve us t h e n a mes t h a t e xp r e s se d t h a t ?

2A Here in New York Ci ty?

22

Q Anyw h e r e .

A

23Yes . I can g ive you names right away , wi thou t

any t roub l e . Char l es B Klein Mr . John F a r r e l l , Caro l24

25Tacher , an d given t ime , I wi ll come up wi th a list o f th e s e

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1 Ec ler G J2 peop l e . At t he t ime o f our t r i a l , we w il l s u h p o ~ n a nd

pu t t h es e peopl e on the s tand a nd you wi l l be ab l e to

4 c ross examine them , Mr . Michaels .

5 Q In the same paragraph you c l a im you su f f e red

6 grave and i r r epu t ab le i n j u ry a nd s u ff e red grea t emot iona l

7 d i s t r e s s and angu ish .

8 Can yo u t e ll us to wha t ex ten t you have s u f f e red

9 A Well, y e s . I don t have any sca l e fo r psych i c

10· dama ge .

11Q

Have you found it necessary t o see med i ca l

12o r psych ia t r i c t reatme nt?

13A No .

14 Q You are s ~ e k i n g th e n about the i n j u ry to you r

5fee l i n gs?

16A My emo t ions . Emotional d i s t.re s s ano anguis h .

7That paragraph s tand s .

18Q l he grave a nd i r r e pu tab l e i n j u ry to your p ro -

19f es s ion a l houor t h a t you speak o f in t h a t paragraph i s

20t ha t i n your profe ss ion as a n out law?

21A In my p ro fess ion a s a n ou t l aw and wou ld -be

22

maga zine publ ic a t i o n as we ll as any o the r ven tu re s I mi gh t

be i n .23

Q Paragraph 31 , again , ask s fo r 1 million in24

25ac tua l damages a nd a f urthe r mil l ion in pun i t i v e damages .

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1 Eder 101

2 I s t ha t the same mil l ion dol la r s tha t you l o s t o r i s th i s

3 a n a l l e ga t ion tha t you l o s t a n add i t iona l mi l l ion?

4 A One mil l ion i s f ine with me .

5 Q t i s the same mil l ion do l l a r s?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Fine . Par a graph 36 aga in claims 1 mi llio n

8 i n ac tua l damages and 1 mil l ion in puni t i v e damages .

9 I s it the same mil l ion t h a t we have a lready

10heard about?

11A

Are we padding t h i s b i l l ? Because if we a r e

12th i s b i l l i s a mil l ion . o we have to ? t i s the s ame

13mi l l i o n .

14 Q At paragraph 38 where you s t a t e t h a t th e de-

15fendants acted in a v ic ious malic ious and in t en t i ona l

16manner wi t h the so le purpose o f i n ju r ing you, did you mean

17t ha t to app ly to a l l defe nd an t s o r only defendan t Weberman ?

18A I th i nk f o r th e t ime being we wil l l e t it app ly

19to a l l defendants u n t i l such t ime - - we wil l a l l ow th a t

20because I th ink tha t might have been v ic ious mal ic iou s

21and in t en t i ona l , s in ce my b e l i e f i s they didn ' t have t o

a l l ow t ha t to be p r i n t e d and by a llowing t ha t to be p r in te d

22they ac ted in a v ic ious and malicious and in t e n t iona l

23

manne r .24

Q In paragraph 39, where you r eques t pun i t i v e25

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Eder 102

2 damages in the amount o f 3 mil lion i s t ha t dup l i ca t ion

o f the previous claims for mo ney o r i s t ha t a se pa r a t e

4 claim ?

5 MR . KAIIN : That i s a separa te cla im .

6 A That i s a sepa ra te c la im my lawyer says .

7 Q How was t h a t f igure computed ?

8 MR . KAHN : Do you want it on t h e record ?

9 MR . MICHAELS: Yes .

10 MR KAHN: The f i g ure for pun i t i ve

damages does n t have to be computed .

12Q Mr . Eder , have you given var ious in te rv iews

13to repor t e rs concerni ng your h i s to ry as a n outlaw?

4 A Yes.

15Q Have you done t h a t with the knowledge th a t it

16would resu lt in pub l i ca t ion o f t h a t . h i s to ry?

A Yes .17

18Q In f a c t haven t you sought the title and

19i den t i f i ed y o u r se l f as Mr . Marijuana ?

20A No I h ave not i d e n t i f i e d myse l f as Mr .

Mari juana .21

Q Have yo u ever been ca l l ed t h a t in p r in t t h a t

22you know of?

23

A Yes, I have been ca lled ~ l t in p r in t .24

Q Were you ca l led tha t in pr in t by repor te r s th a t25

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1 Eder 103

2 yo u h a d give n informa t i o n to vo l un t a r ily ?

3 A No I d o n t b e lieve s o, unless Goldma n may

4 ha ve ca l l e d me t h a t a t some t ime, bu t I d o n t t h in k s o .

5 Q Yo u have appear e d o n t he f ron t page o f New

6 York Magazi ne?

7 A I wa s a cove r boy

8 Q I s n t it t r u e your r ep u t a t i o n a s a n out law

9 produced pub l i c i t y you f e l t was ben e f i c i a l to you ?

1A Mos t d e f i n i te ly .

11 Q I s n t it t r u e you have admit ted many t imes

12 fo r publ i c a t i o n , your i nvo lvemen t as a n ou t law in mari j uana

13 smugg l ing v e n tu re s?

14 A No , th a t i s not t r ue.

15 Q You hav e spoken o u t abou t you r f ee l i n g s abou t

16 the marij uana l aws fo r p u b l i c a t i o n purposes ?

17A Mo s t d e f i n i t e l y .

18 Q Yo u have done s o with t h e i dea o f h e lp ing to

19 i n f lu en ce the pub l i c to take a more ra t i ona l view wi th r e -

20gard to the l aw ; i s n t t h a t c or r e c t?

21A I wi l l agree w ith th a t -.

22

Q Did you eve r se ll phone f raud d e v ic e s?

A Yes3

Q How many t imes ?24

25A How many t imes d i d I s e l l them?

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Eder 1 4

2 Q Yes .

3

4

A Twen ty , f i f t y . Fi f t y i s a good f igure , a p-

proximate ly .J

5 Q Did y ou eve r wa rn smugg l e rs abo u t Coast Guard

6 in ves tiga tions in orde r t o he lp them evade capture ?

7 A That s correc t .

8 Q How many t i mes ?

9 A Every time I ever go t the in fo rmat ion .

10 Q How many t imes might t h a t be , approximate ly?

11 A At l eas t t e n .

12Q I s it true you were n ame d and i ndic t ed as co -

13 cons p i r a to r in a recen t a r re s t o f approximately t e n perso ns

14 in New J e rsey on drug charges?

15A Tha t i s no t t rue , to my know l e dge .

16Q Have you eve r be en n amed and in d i c ted as co -

7consp i ra to r i n any i n d i ctmen t yo u know of?

18A No . May I as k the l ocat io n in Ne w Je r sey ?

9Q Le t s l eave the poin t fo r a mome n t .

20In f a c t , in the var ious t imes you have spoken

21to repor t e rs o r spoke n with the know l e d ge t ha t you r word s

22

migh t be publ i sh e d , h aven t y ou so u gh t to ma ke yourse lf

23a publ i c f i g ure on the mar i ju ana i ssue ?

A No , it j u s t happened t h a t way .24

25Q Haven t you sough t to make yourse lf known a s

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1 Ede r 105

2 a n impo r ta n t person in t h e ma r i j u a na o u t l ~ w hu s in c sse s ?

3 A No . In f a c t , I do j u s t t h e oppo s ite. In

4 bo t h a r ticle s t h a t were w r i t te n in NEW YORK MAGAZINE t he

·e 5 exact oppo s ite o f t h a t .

6 Q Can you ex p l a i n what you me an?

7 A D o n t have t o . Yo u as ked me a t o n a nd

8 I an s we red yo u r que s t i on . I i n t en d ed to do t he o ppo s ite .

9 The b i g ma n i s l i k e o ne o f t h e b i g money g uys . The f irst

10a r t i c l e a bout New York we ju s t d ealt w i th t h e New York

11 dope scene on a smRll l e v e l . On t h e s e con d l eve l we

12d ealt wi th s mugg l i n g from Colombia . It wa s r e a l l y a n

13a rticle a bout how in e p t we were in t h a t . I b e li e v e j ust

14t h e o ppo s i t e would be t h e ca s e .

15Q Would you o b j e c t if any a t t o rn e y who f o rma l l y

16rep r ese n te d you had in formed t h a t you i n f a c t h a d b e e n a

17EA i n f o r mant? Would you o b jec t to t h a t b e i ng re ve a l ed ?

18A Ye s I wou ld .

19Q Would y ou a l l ow de f e ndan t Web erman to o b ta in

20a n y gove r nm e n t r eco rds t h a t may ~ x s t wh i c h ma y conc e rn

a ny a ctivitie s you might h ave had a s a DEA i n fo rmant?21

A I w i l l not a l low him t he t ime o f d ay . Ge t it

22in t he r e cord . Any t h i n g I c a n do towa rd h e l p ing A . J .

23

Web e rman I w i l l c onsc ious ly avoid doing th a t.24

Anyth ing e l s e ?25

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•

Eder 106

2 Q Who r ep resen t s you in the mari juana conv ic t ion

3 which i s now on appeal?

4 A Joe l - - I m so r ry , I d o n t remember the guy s

5 l a s t name. I am very bad on l a s t names. It took me t h r ee

6 months - - Joe l begins with an H.

7 Q Is he assoc ia ted in any way t h a t you know o f

8 with your p r e s en t a t to rney?

9

1

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

MR KAHN: Are you r e f e r r ing to me?

MR MICHAELS: Yes.

MR KAHN:The answer i s no.

A I t o l d you I can g e t you t ha t . Is t ha t an im-

p o r t a n t ques t ion? Because if it i s , I w i l l make a quick

phone c a l l and give you the name.

Q At the s t a r t o f our examinat ions today, before

we commenced the formal examinat ion you t o l d me about a

young lady who sa id t h a t she - -

A That i s i r r e l e v a n t . I am going to answer t h a t

ques t ion .

Q I was not abou t to mention the name.

A You a re not going to mention t ha t f ac t . I am

no t going to dea l 1·1ith t h a t f ac t .

Q You t o l d me abou t a person who had been quoted

as say ing they were r i c h - - had become r i c h because o f t h e i r

con tac t with you. In fac t , isn t t h a t t r ue , t ha t t h e r e a re

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1 Eder 107

2 many peop l e who have prospered because o f t h e i r cont<tcts

3 with you ?

4 A Th ere most d e f i n i t e ly a r e because t ha t i s why

·e s I don t have to worry abou t mak i ng r ~ o r than 100 , bec<tuse

6 the re are many people who have t h e i r money today because

7 they knew me . And I in t roduced them to c e r t a in p e op le

8 where they probab ly made money in the mari juana business .

9 I f tha t i s the ques t ion , the answer i s ye s .

10Q I am g e t t i n g towards the c lose o f the ques t i ons

11I

have for you.

12 Mr . Eder , yo u have t o l d us about a g re a t many

13 cr imes you have committed, a t l e a s t as the law p r e s en t ly

14de f ines the k ind o f behav ior we have been di scuss ing .

15Are yo u aware t h a t your ndmiss io ns with rega rd

16to those cr imes mi gh t poss ib ly be the s ubj ec t o f prosecu -

17t i ons o f you ?

18A Tha t i s r i g h t , bu t t ce r t a i n l y i s no t s ec r e t

19a s to the bus iness th a t I have been in over a per iod o f

20t ime. I have be e n a r r e s t e d on n umerous occas ions on~ ~

2

mari juana convic t ions . I have t o ld the J;l ;ltrol Board in the

Sta te o f C a l i f o r n i a t ha t I i n tend to cont inue in the

22mari juana game foreve r o r a t l eas t as long as t l as t s ,

23

and I have no i n te n tion o f s topp ing mar i juana and I h ave24

no bones , wha tsoever NEW YORK MAGAZINE had a fu ll page25

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I:der 109

2 l aws shou l d be cha nqed and I w u ~ a eb a t e you Rt th i s

3 t ime o r probab ly unde r o ther c i rcumstances e i t h e r , b u t

4 under t he ca tegor ies o f t he presen t law , whn.t yo u a r e

e 5 seek ing to p ro t e c t here i s you r repu tation as a c apab l e

6 a nd honest c r imina l i s i t n o t ?

7 A I objec t to the word c r imin a l I don ' t know

8 wh a t t he p r e s en t l a w c a l l s fo r .

9 Wh a t I a m s t a t i n g i s , I p r e f e r t he word out law

10be use d , a s opposed t o c r i min a l. Other t h a n t h a t , my

11answe r --

12Q Bu t t h e g i st o f the l aws u i t , p rime t h r u s t i s

13by say ing you t e s t i f i e d , t h a t you i n s t i g a ted a prosec u t i o n

14a nd gave i n fo rma t i on ag a in s t Tom Forcade , th a t the d amage

15t h a t has been do ne to y ou i s t he d i f f i c u l t y and the l o ss es

16yo u have s u s t a i n e d as an o u t l aw , a s a s e l l e r o f ma r i j u an a

A Tha t ' s cor rec t .17

MR . MICHAELS : Off t h e r ecord18

19(Disc us s ion o f f t he r eco rd . )

1R . MICHAELS: On the recor d .20

Q Mr . Eder , you t o l d us yo u a re s eeking a pub l i c21

forum in wh i ch to s how t he a l l e g a t i o n s in t he a r t i c l e abo u t

22you a re i n fa l se ; i s t h a t t r ue ?

23

A That ' s co r r ec t .

24

Q You are aware the gover nmen t usua l l y s h ie ld s

5

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Eder 110

2 the i d e n t i t y o f i t s in fo rmants and the government has a

3 pol i cy o f p r o t ec t i n g t he i d e n t i t y o f t h e i r i n fo rman t s

4 a re you not?

5 Yes.

6 Q In seek ing a p u b l i c forum to d i scuss t h i s

7 t r u t h o r f a l s i t y o f the a l l e g a t i o n s about you in the

8 a r t i c l e a re you w i l l i n g to waive any p r i v i l e g e t h a t you

9 might conceivably have as to the p r o t ec t i o n to any i d en -

1 t i f i c a t i o n you may ever have ·had as an informant?

11 When t h a t comes to c o u r t when t h a t ge t s i n t o

12 cour t and I put witnesses on the s t an d if those witnesses

13 are members o f a governmenta l agency i n v e s t i g a t i v e agency

14 such as DE and the FBI and those people are p laced on

15 the s tand as defense w i t n e s s e s then they a re open f o r

16c ross examinat ion and in doing t h a t I am p u t t i n g my neck

17on t he chopping block . t i s t h a t s imple ; so

18Q Should a g u es t i o n come up --

9For the r e c o rd I wave noth ing but the

20American f l ag and I only do t h a t on the 4th o f Ju ly .• 21

22

Q Are you t h e r e f o r e c la iming the p r o t e c t io n o f

whatever government p o l i c i e s may e x i s t to sh i e l d i n fo rman t s

23through the course o f t h i s l awsu i t?

24A That i s a loaded ques t ion . I am n o t going to

25answer t h a t ques t ion .

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1 Eel e r 111

2 Q o you c l aim the she l t e r given hy law?

A Tha t i s a l o a d e d ques t i on . Yo u ca n r eph r a s e

4 i t e i ghteen t i mes. It i s a l oaded que s t ion a nd I am no t

5 go ing t o dea l w ith i t.

6 Q Are . yo u c l aim i ng any pr i v i l ege o f the

7 A Tha t i s a l oaded ques t io n a nd yo u can reph r a se

8 i t ano the r seven teen t i me s , bu t more th a n th a t yo u do n t

9 ge t . You g e t seve ntee n mor e reph rase s and you wi l l ge t the

10same a nswe r . I t i s a loade d q ues tio n .

11 MR. MICHAELS : Of f t h e record .

12 .( Discuss ion o f f the record .

13A On t h e r eco rd .

14Q Mr . Eder , i f in fac t t he re i s some gove rnmen t

15re co rd somewhere th a t wh a t Mr . Weberman sa i d in the a r t i c l e

16i s i n f a c t t ru e , are yo u i ntend i ng t o , throug h th i s l aws u i t ,

17c l a i mi n g it i s no t t r u e an d us i ng th a t pro t e c t i o n o f s h i e ld -

18i n g the name s o f rea l i n fo rmants ?

19A Tha t l eave s yo u s ix t e e n ways o f rephra s ing t h a t

20ques t ion .

Aga i n , Mr . Mi c h ae l s , th a t i s a loaded que s t i o n21

and as such , I am not go i n g to dea l w ith th a t q u es t i o n a t

22t h i s po i n t . So aga i n , yo u h ave s i xtee n more rephra se s .

23

Fo r t he r ecor d , it i s now a q ua r t e r t o s ix . We24

have been h e r e s in ce two o c l ock .25

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1 Eder 112

2 Q Do you have any concern the re mi ght be any

3 governmental f i l e s anywhere t h a t might say you are t h e i r

4 governmenta l informant?

•5 A Obviously s ince an informant i s the one th a t

6 gives up in format ion regard les s o f the conno ta t ion o f t he

7 s o c i e ty s ince I have given in format ion on two se p a ra t e

8 occas ions to two governmen ta l bodie s one to each the re

9 i s no ques t ion whatsoeve r t h a t somewhere a long the l i n e

10 we pu t a guy on t he s tand and the re i s a n informant and

11 he informed on t h i s and t h i s and a t t h a t t ime you w i l l h ave

12 a n oppor tuni ty to cross examine . I f you are ask ing me to

13 wa ive any r i gh t s to give t h i s degenera te

14 Q Poin t ing to Mr. Weberman .

15 A I f you a r e ask ing me to waive r i gh t s and give

16him the r i g h t to ge t my r e p o r t s on the

17Q No I am n o t . I t h ink you misunders tand the

18ques t ion . I am ask ing you whether in fac t you i n t end t o

19t ake advantage o f the government pol i cy to r e fuse to

2id e n t i f y the rea l names o f informants?

21A You go t f i f t e e n I th ink l e f t . That i s ano t h e r

rephras ing o f the ques t ion .

22Q ·when you t ake the s tand do you i n t e nd to t ll

23

the cour t t h a t yo u seek t he pro tec t ion o f the sec recy o f24

25the names o f inform an t s whi le you s u e somebody on you r

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1 Ede r 113

2 cla im t ha t it i s not t rue?

3 A Again , we a re deal ing with the same th ing . This

4 man has s t a t e d in p r i n t t h a t I t e s t i f i e d .before a grand

5 jury in Brook lyn . I am not ove r l y concerned whe ther it i s

6 a h i gh- le ve l DE informant . You made the i ssue on t h i s .

7 I a l ready s t a t ed to you I informed the DE , I gave them a

8 piece of info rmat ion . I t raded them for it and you a re

9 asking me to go f u r ther tha n t ha t , and I am not w i l l i n g to

10go fur ther tha n th a t.

11 My con ten t ion i s I never t e s t i f i e d anywh e re in

12Brooklyn o r New Je r sey o r any o ther place t h a t you a re

13t a lk ing about , and t ha t i s the t h r u s t o f my content io n

14wi t h in th i s l awsu i t .

15Q Wil l you al low gove rnment o f f i c i a l s to t e s t i f y ,

16if t ha t i s , in f a c t , yes , you were a n informant i n o the r

17ways , in o the r cases bes ides wha t you have t o ld us today?

18A I don t have a choice , i f you c a l i these peop l e

t o the s tan d .19

20Q You don t c la im any pro tec t ion?

A I didn t say t h a t and you are t r y ins the same21

th ing aga in , Michaels .

22Of f the record .

23

Discussion o f f the record . )

24

MR . MICH ELS : On the r ecord p l eas e .

25

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1 114

2 Q Mr . Eder , in those l i m i t e d inst .1nc e s where

3 you did provide in fo rmat ion t o the FBI an d DEA , wh i ch you

4 h.:ive t o ld us abont , <lo you h eJ i e ve t h a t i n fo rmat ion was

s help fu l to the FBI and the DEA ?

6 A Yes , I mos t d e f i n i t e l y be l i eve it WQS he lp fu l

7 to t he FB I and the DEA . However

8 Q Did t ha t he l p mainta i n the i n t e g r i t y o f t h e i r

9 p e r s o n r n ~ l and secnr i ty systems ?

10A Only the sec u r i t y systems , Rnd my con ten t ion i s

11t h a t in no way j eopard ized my s t an d i ng a s ~ n o u t l aw , simp ly

12because in p r i son pnr l ance , a ra t o r in fo rman t i s one

13who t akes advantage o f g e t t ing o u t o f doing jail t ime by

14pu t t i n g someone e l s e in tha t cage in h i s place , so my dea l

15ing with the governmen t was withou t hur t ing ano ther humHn

16being . I don ' t f ee l I deserve the r epu ta t ion o f bein9 a

r a t .17

18Does t ~ t ~ n s w e your q u e s t ion ?

Q It i s a n answe r to the ques t io n .19

20If you bc 1 i eve th a t yon r .1ork for the g o v e r nment

h e l ped t o protec t s e c u r i ty o f g o v ~ e n t in fo rmat ion i n21

dea lings wi th c r imina l p rosecu t i ons , i s it not t rue the

22 he l p yo u p ro v ided probah ly re s u l t e d in people being j a i l e d?

23A No . Most d e f i n i t e l y no t . ~ ~ e he lp I p rovided ,

24ag a i n , was in te l l i n g - - are you speak in g o f the FRI o r the

25

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•

Eder 115

2 drug enforcement agencies?

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

1

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

23

24

5

Q Both.

A The Federal Bureau of Inves t iga t ion presen ted

leaks in the na t iona l secur i ty system. Since I had the

a b i l i t y to tap the FBI s phone, I had the same a b i l i t y to

t ap any government phone in t ha t a rea , hased on the way

they were doing th ings a t tha t poin t in t ime.

rhe second th ing was t ha t c e r t a in ly wouldn t

have l ed to the a r r e s t o r convic t ion o f any human being.

The second th ing with regard to the Drug Enforcement Ad-

minis t ra t ion , the Drug Enforcement Adminis t ra t ion doe s n t

l i ke a l o t of th ings I do. You broughtup the po in t o f

warning the sh ips . I have done t ha t on numerous occas ions .

The government i s very upset about They d i d n t ge t - -

They d i d n t ge t any pos i t i ve convic t ions out o f anything

t ha t I to ld them. What they did ge t , the fu r t hes t you

could poss ib ly s t r e t ch my help to the government i s I might

have been able to give t h i s information as to how to plug

in the computers to somebody who it might have helped them

to avoid cap tu re . This i s the fur thes t you could possib ly

s t r e t ch the damage I would have done to another out law.

Q The damage to another out law, even i you had

not given a name, t ha t re su l ted in immediately and d i rec t l y

in an a r r e s t ; i s n t t h a t t rue? The ass i s t ance you provided

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Ede r 116

2 p robab l y h e l ped the e f f i c i ency o f the l a w e n forceme n t

3 agenc i e s by t hose a ge nc i e s th a t some peop le were a rres t ed

4 t h a t otherw i se would no t have been a r r e s t e <l?

5 A Abso l u t e l y not

6 Q Wh e r e d id yo u ge t the lis t o f wa n te d s h i p s

7 wh i c h I t h ink you c a l l e d a hot s he e t ? Whe r e did yo u ge t

8 t he l i s t ?

9 A Which one ? I can s t a t e very simp l y th a t o n a t

10 l east t e n t imes I have go t te n t e n l ists .

11Q From whom?

12A From va r ious sources

13 Q From whom?

14A F rom va r iou s sour ces . That i s an ans we r to

15t he q ues t i on .

16Q Are yo u w il l ing t o i d en t i f y t he source s?

17A I am unwi l l ing to id en t i f y any o f the sourc e s .

18MR KAHN : Off t he rec6r d

19D i s cuss ion o f f the r e co rd .

20MR MICHAELS : Back on the r e co rd

Q Go ahead 21

A I am l os t 22

Q Are you dec l i n i ng to answe r t he que s t i o n?23

A What ques t ion?24

Q The ques t io n is wo uld you p l ease t e l l us t he25

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1 Eder 117

2 peop le from whom you go t the li s t s o f h o t sh ips , o f wa n te d

3 s hips?

4 A Of cour se not .

e 5 Q Thank you.

6 A No not thank you . Let me comp l e te my answe r

7 to t h e ques t ion . Of course , any perso n who s to l e th es e

8 are gene r a l ly t e le type t ha t were t e l e typed to var ious Coast

9 Gu a r ds and sometimes a fu l l ho t s heet , an d a t any t ime a ny -

10bo dy gave me t ha t info r ma t i on , a l o t o f people were working

11 f o r t he governmen t a nd the re were kids t h a t wo rked fo r th e

12Coas t Gu a rd and peo p le who worke d in governme n t a genc ies

13 for which we pa id for these hot she e t s . Of course we

14couldn t t e ll you t ha t .

15MR. MICHAELS : Subject to my c l i e n t ' s

16approval , have complete d my exam ina t ion . \van t

17to th a nk Mr. Kahn , our r epor t e r , and Mr. Ede r , as

18·we ll.

19Q Mr. Ede r , our concluding ques t i ons a re as

fol lows :20

2Had you re ad the c omp l a i n t in t h i s case p r i o r

to today ?

22A I 'm sorry , no.

23

Q Do you know whe th e r your a t to rney in t h i s24

mat te r ever previous ly rep re sented Mr . Thomas Fo rcade o r25

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1 F.c ier 118

2 any of h is busines s ven tures?

3 A You h ave to depose my a t t o r n ey .

4 Q I am ask ing whether you have any knowledge .

5 I am not asking you the f a c t .

6 A Whether I have any knowled0e?

7 Q Do you know whether you r presen t a t to rney , Mr .

8 Kahn , s i t t i n g nex t to you , v r prev ious ly rcpre s cm t ed Mr

9 Fo rcade o r h i s bus iness ve n tu res?

10 A I be l ieve he may h ave been rep re se n t ing

11 Transhigh Corporat ion somewh ere along the l i ne . I don t

12 know i he ever rep re sen ted Tom persona l l y .

13 Q Do you know how t ha t r e l a t i ons h ip t e rmi n a te d?

14A I have no idea . I don t eve n know i it has

15t e rmina ted .

16Q At my c l i e n t s r eq u es t , I want to ask one f ina l

17ques t ion , which i s whethe r you di scussed t h i s mat t e r t> li th

18you r a t to rney be fo re t ~ e comp l a i n t was d r awn , whe th e r yo u

19informed him th a t you saw the p r i n c i pa l dama0e to you r

20r e pu ta t ion as the damage to your re::>u·tatio n as t o ha t yo u

c a l l an outlaw?

e 21

A I t h ink ~ ~ t I s a i d to my a t t o r n ey was t h i s was

22a mal ic ious a t t ack by A J . Weberman and these peop l e shou ld

23

have known it was a mal ic ious a t t a c k by Nebernan . They24

should have checked the vera c i t y o f the s ta tement t h a t I25

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1 Eder 120

2 s ince the m j o r i t y o f my adu l t l i f e was s p e n t in pr i son

3 s i t ua t ions , my te rminolog y o f info rman t i s one who t r ades

4 h i s ca ge , t rade s , gives up h i s ca ge l e t me reph r a se

e5 th a t - - i s one who ge ts ou t o f a cage by pu t t i ng a not h e r

6 ma n in t he cag e in his p l ac e , and I ha ve neve r done t h a t

7 and I neve r i n tend to do t ha t .

8 Q I s the t e r m cop some t imes t r e a t e d s ynonymous l y

9 in your und e r s ta nding, with t he word in fo r mant ?

10 A Erroneous l y . Again , my par lanc e i s based

11 pr ima r i l y o n p r i son . A cop i s a cop and a r a t i s a r a t .

12 They are t wo separa te a nd d i s t i n c t e n t i t i e s .

13 Q Looking a t the a r t i c l e we a re d is cuss ing , I

14 am c a l l i ng you r a t t e n t ion t o a c ouple o f sen ten ces tha t

15 say , ' \ery few o ther people wo u ld he lp Tom. Rubin and Tom

16had ca l l ed me a cop . Rub in a nd Hoffman had ca l l ed him a

17cop dur ing the yipp e e - z i ppy co n f l i c t in Miami , a nd t h a t

18l abe l s tuck . Even tua l ly b o th Abby and .._l'erry admi t t e d t h i s

19wa s t:he wr ong t hing to do.

20A I canno t a n sw e r fo r A. J . Weberman ' s wr t ng ,

21s ince I d i d n ' t wri t e t ha t . A . J . Weber.ma n - - a t no t ime ,

22

t o my knowledge , was Tom accused o f b e i ng a cop . He was

23a ccused o f b e ing a n age n t , o f be in g an in fo r man t and

24a ccuse d of work ing for the i n t e l l igence commun i ty .

25At no t ime in my knowl e d ge was he eve r acc u se d

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1 Eder 121

2 o f being a cop

3 Q Does the word in fo rmant in t h e se nse t h a t

4 you unders tand it , have a very ne g a t i ve connotat ion?

5 A bo u t as nega t ive a s yo u c a n g e t .

6 Q Would you say it a l s o i s a nega t i ve connota t i o n

7 among you r f r i e nds , fami ly and bus ines s a ssoc i a te s ?

8 A The word info r man t i s not on ly amongst th e

9 r a t , s omeone who be t rays the t r u s t o f h is peers , it i s

10 l ooked upon as a pi ranha by our soc ie ty . We a r e dea l i ng

11w ith go

inga l l t he way t o Juda s a nd J esus , r i gh t up to t he

12 i n f o r ~ a n t wh i c h was l a t e r redone with b l ack s no t to o many

13 yea r s ago on every l eve l in t he soc ie ty , excep t f o r poss ih ly

14a few o f t he n ewe r cop shows i n which a pimp r a t , who i s

15looked upon as a he ro . In most l eve l s o f s o c i e ty , in -

16forman t i s loo ked upo n as a l ow li f e .

17Q I s the word i nforman t synonymous wi t h t he

18word s n i t c h ?

19A x a c t l ~ Mos t def i n i t e l y .

20Q ~ t h e r parag raph : Recen t l y Ri ck Nemay , in -

21formant , FBI , snake , who in f iltr te d the z ip p ie s and c a me

doi n g a book fo r Quadrang l e Press about h is expe r i ences ,24

re fused to he l p frame him25

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F ncr 1 2 2

2 In rega r d to t ha t paragraph , hy c o n t r a s t o f

3 t he paragraph in which your name was mentioned what d id

4 t h a t sugges t t o you?

5 A It sugges te d to me he was a good guy and no t

6 a r a t an d I was a bad guy and a r a t . In th i s case th a t

7 i s wha t it s u gges t s to me .

8 Taking the a r t i c l e as a whole looking a t th a t

9 paragrap h and ·che paragraph abo u t me one i s the good guy

10 a nd one i s the bad guy .

11 Q Yo u t e s t ified t h a t you had given v e ry l imi t ed

l2 i nformat ion to t he FBI in 1975. Have you g i ve n i n f o rma t io n

13 to t he I in the yea r s subsequent to 1975?

14 A Let me dea l w ith th a t. I h a ve wor k ed once

15 w ith the FBI and I s t a t e d a t whic h t ime I worked wi t h th e m.

16And I worke d w ith t h e ones w ith t h e Drug Enforc e ment Ad -

17min i s t r a t i o n and t h a t s it b aby .

18Q W t h r e spec t to the Drug Enforce me n t Adminis -

19tra t io n wi t h which yo u made your arrang emen t in 1 976 h a ve

20yo u g ive n th e m a ny fu r th e r in format ion in 1977 1 978 o r

211979?

A I had no c o n tac t wh a tso e ve r .

22

23Q At t h e t ime t h i s a r t i c l e r e f e r s to wh e n it

24

r e fe rs to you r name in 1977 it i s th e r e fore the case th a t

25you we r e not de a l i n g with o r giv ing a ny in f o rma tio n wh a t

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1 Erle r 123

2 soeve r t o t he A a t th a t t i me ?

3 A Th a t i s co r r ec t .

4 Q I n c ommo n parl a nc e , t h e wo r d i n fo rm a n t , i s

5 tha t gen e ra l l y unde r s t oo d t o me a n s omeone who me r e l y g i v e s

6 some i nformat i o n a bou t th e t e c hn i c a l da ta , s uch a s you ga ve ,

7 o r i s it mo re su re ly und e r s tood t o mea n a s n i t c h o f r a t

8 th a t tu r ns o n s ome spec i f i c - -

9 A I n gene·ca l , i n a soc ie t y i n ge n e ra l , U1e wo r d

1 informan t , if it i s no t used in a c r i mi na l comp l a i n t , has -

11it

i s no t a devil

word .t

i s no t a d e vil

word i f y o u say ,

12I ha ve a n i nfo r ma n t who t e lls me t h a t if I go i n to th e

13 bus i ness in Ha i t i t omor r ow , I a m goi ng to ma ke a l o t o f

14mone y . Tha t i s a n in fo r man t wh o gi v e s tha t i n fo rm a t io n .

15As we know it wi t h i n the s t r uc tu re o f t h e

16soc i e ty i n wh ic h I live a nd t h a t i s no t on ly th e peo p l e

17who a re e ng a ged i n outlaw a c t i viti e s bu t p eo p l e I know

18soc i a l l y a nd pe rsona lly , t h e word in forman t i s a b o u t a s

19low a word , it ' s a bou t a s de ro ga tory a nd pe jo r a t iv e a wo r d

20a s y o u c a n us e aga in s t a human b e ing .

Q I s t ha t bec aus e it i s t re a t 8d as meaning y o u21

g i ve i n fo rma t i o n 1 a bo u t a no th e r h uman be in g t h a t ca use d h i s

22a r res t?

23

A No , it ' s b e cau se i t i s t re a te d , t r a d in g y o ur24

c age w ith ano t h e r ma n , pu t t i ng ano ther man i n a c ag e s o25

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1 E<ler 124

2 you don t h ave to go i n t o a caqe .

3 Q Whe n you r e ad t he a r t i c l e by Mr . We b e rman , d id

4 you unders tand t h a t to mean he was s t a t i ng o r implying yo u

s gave in fo rmat ion to a grand j u ry with r e spec t t o ~ o m Fo rc a de

6 fo r the p urpose o f p u t t i n g him in a c a ge and k ee ping yo u

7 out?

8 A Exa c t ly . He says th a t I ga ve t e s t i mo ny b e fo re

9 a gran d j ury in Brooklyn in the year 1977 . This i s a lie

10That i s . the who l e crux o f my c as e . All the r e st o f wha t

11 i s b e ing s t a te d i s g r ea t b e twee n l awyers , bu t my cas e i s

12v ery s i mp ly th a t t h i s man has s a id t h a t I t estif i e d before

13 a gr a n d j u ry ag a in s t anothe r human being and I n eve r <lid

14t h is . And I f e e l he d i d t h i s ma l i c iou s l y and w ith the

15i n ten t ion o f t r y i n g to h u r t me . Th i s i s my wa y o f e xpre s s -

16ing t h is l a w s u i t .

17Q Do you h a ve any ink l ing a s to why Mr . We be rma n

18b ea r s any f ee l i n g of ma lice , ho s tility t owards yo u in -

19div idua l ly?

20MR . MICH ELS: b j ~ c o n As k e d a nd

a n swe r e d . D id n t we v i ew t h a t spec i f i c a lle g a t io n ?21

MR . K HN : I do n t r eca ll t h a t you asked

22him

23

Q I n ad d i t i o n t o the spe c i f i c a llega t i o n th a t wa s24

made by you a bo u t Mr Webe r rnan , do you h a ve a ny t hing more ?25

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1 F.der 26

2 A That s cor rec t .

3 Q Were the re a ny o ther persons , to your know l edge ,

4 th a t dec l ned to work fo r you o n t h i s pro j ec t as a r esu lt

5 o f tJ e publ c a t ion o f t h i s a r t i c l e ?

6 A Yes .

7 Q Wou ld yo u t e ll us who they were ?

8 A Paul Kra s ne r , Sa l l y Ma r , a l t h ough S a l l y , I con -

9 vinced h e r t h a t wa s no t the case . Ther e have been o th e r

10people , yes .

11MR . KAHN : Tha t i s a ll I have .

2MR . MICHAELS : I w ll be b r i e f o n r e -

3d re c t .

4EXAMINATION BY MR MICHAELS:

5Q You have see n governmenta l agency r e p o r t s a t

6t imes , have you not?

A I have .7

8Q Inve s t i g a t i ve r ep o r t s , th a t s o r t o f th ing ?

A I have .9

20Q You a re aware the in fo rmant i s o f t e n us e d as

a n inform a n t who g i ves spec i f i c i nfo r mation even though21

they a re not t r ad ing a cage fo r ano ther perso n s i n ca r ce r a -22

t ion?23

A Yes , they have paid i n forman ts t h a t do t fo r24

o the r reasons . There s a lways some game fo r the in fo rmant .25

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1 Eder 128

2 A From a transac t i o n Forca de and I we r e in vo l ved

3 i n .

4 Q What l oca t ion?

5 A F lo r id a .

6 Q With h i s permiss ion?

7 A He didn t have a ch o i ce . I sa id , you know,

8 Ma n , I 'm t ak ing t h i s . What do you want to do? He d id n ' t

9 wa n t to do no t h i n g . He knew. There was a man in t he room.

10 He sa i d , Tom, you b ea t him fo r h i s money . I to ok f i f t y

11 a nd f i f t y more to make up f o r the i n t e r e s t and t ook one

12 hundred pounds from him in f r o n t o f h i s face . I t o l d him

l3 I wa s t ak i n g t h i s . It was t h a t s imple .

14 Q The two o f you we r e a lone a t the t ime?

5A Me a nd Tom.

16Q Who e l s e was pres e nt?

17A I wouldn t give you t h a t info rmation .

18Q Was a ny weapon in t he room?

19A Tom had a .45 in h i s b e l t .

20Q Any o ·th e r s ?

2A Not to my knowle dge .

22Q Did you hav e a ny weapons ?

23A I do n ' t ca r r y a gun .

24Q Did you have any weapon ?

25A No, I don t ca r ry a gun .

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1 Ede r 1 29

2 Q ow wa s it t h a t he ha d a gun and you had no

3 weapon a t a ll and tha t you we re ab le to simp ly say to

4 him , 11 I am t ak ing it 1 and walk out with something va lu ed ,

5 I t hink you sa id , abou t 20,000 ?

6 A That s wha t it would be va l ued ou t , twenty

7 t hou sand .

8 Q Wha t was it force o f persona l i ty , hypno t i c s?

9 A Ne i th e r . You a re f ace t ious .

10 Q Yes , I apo l og i ze .

11A What h appens in t h i s busines s i s we know the

12d i f ference between r i gh t and wrong . I was in a po s i t i o n to

13conf ron t th i s man wi t h r egard t o h i s having chea te d me o n

14a n ea r l i e r run . I was working a t the t ime o f being chea ted .

15I wa s working fo r Torn Forcade . I was not his par t ner . I

16wa s s till working fo r him and he wa s supposed t o have pa id

17me 50 , 000 o r 200 , 000 pounds o f mari juana . Ins tead o f

18paying me 1 50,000 pounds o f ma r ij uana , la te r , j u s t pr i o r

19to th i s bus ines s arrangemen t going down where I wa s Tom s

20par tne r a t t h i s t i me , j u s t p r i o r to it going down , I go t

t he in fo rmat i on ahou t h i s h aving b ea t me for the f i f t y21

pound s , s o I wen t t o o ther peop le in the g ang and asked

22did t h i s ~ e l l y t ake p lace . I go t the informat io n th a t it

23

had . I con f ronted Tom wi t h the i n fo rma t i on tha t he had24

bea t me fo r the f i f ty . e agreed he h a d bea t me for the25

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1 Eder 1 30

2 f i f t y . I t o ld h i m, I T t.:1king the f i f t y and I ' rn tak ing

3 anothe r f i f ty , b e cause he was a fake . He was ca r ry ing a

4 gun but he h a d no choice because the o th e r guy was in t he

5 room. He sa id, Ma n, you CJOt no choice . You bu s ted him .

6 He c a r r i ed a gun . Tom Forcade a l s o p u l l e d a gun o n me

7 dur ing the same ope r a t i on . He pulle d a gun .

8 Q There wa s a pe r iod o f t i me t h a t you were a ngry

9 w ith Forcade and though t abou t revenge but had not reso l ved

10 the problem , was there n o t ?

11A

No , because I wa s -- couldn t have b e e n more

12 tha n a day- and- a - ha l f , two days from t he t ime I found ou t

13 abou t it to the t ime I took my ma te r i a l back .

14 Q Wi t h in the l a s t yea r , have you t e s t i f ie d in any

15 cour t o f l aw wher e the j u ry o r judge accepted you r word ?

16 A I h ave no t t e s t i f i e d in a cour t o f l a w i n a ny

17 case , other t ha n my ca s e , t o the bes t o f my knowledge . I

18canno t eve r rememb e r ever be ing ca l led . Maybe I was onc e ,

19in Cal i fo r nia . I have never t e s t i f i e d aga i ns t anyone in

20any case anywhere in the world a t any t i me .

2Q No judge- or ju ry whi c h ever r ece ive d you r ~ o r

in court?22

23A There i s no judg e o r a ny j u ry -- I do n ' t k now

24t h a t . There are judge s and jur i e s who have accepted my

25word in cou r t, when I defended my se lf. Let me t ry the

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1 Ede r 131

2 sta t emen t aga i n . At no t ime in my 48 y ear s , i n my

3 ex i s t e nce , have I e v e r t e s tifi e d a ga i n s t any pe r son i n

4 any c r imina l p ro cedure ; i s t h a t c l ea r ? Th a t i s p r e t t y

5 b r oad . That i s 48 y ea r s o f it . Doe s t h a t a nswe r you r

6 q ues tio n? I h a ve t estifi e d in my own case s .

7 Q How many t im e s was your wo rd accep te d i n you r

8 own ca s e s?

9 MR AHN : I ob j e ct to t h a t . One n e ve r

1 knows -- How d oes o ne know t h e bas i s o f how it i s

11 accep t e d a t t h e t r i a l ?

12 Q In t ho s e cas e s you t es tifie d , th e c ase s in

13 v h i c h t h e j u ry conv i c te d you o f c r im e s

14 MR KA HN : I o b j ec t to t h a t. You do n t

15 k now if o th e r t e s t imony o r ev idence wa s in t h e cas e

16 and you don t know t he ju r y s ba s i s f o r wh a t t he

17dec i s io n was .

18Q Ha ve yo u t e s t ifie d in yo u r own beha lf ?

19A In wh i c h t he j u ry b e lieved me?

20 Q Wh i c h i n f ac t re s u l t e d in you r be in g c onv i c te d

e 21o f a cr ime .

22A Bo th . I h a ve n e v e r t e s ti f i e d i n c a se s d e a l in g

23wi t h o t h e r peop l e ; th a t i s No . 1 . Le t s ge t th a t s t r a i gh t

24a ga i n f rom t he jump .

25Q I u n d e r s ta nd you r pos itio n .

B LITZ REPORT ING CO

15 P A R K R O W . N Y 1 0 0 3 6 P H O N E S 3 19-310 6 · 9



1 Ede r 1 3 3

2 A Outlaw bu s i ne ss a nd l eg i t i ma t e in l a w bu s in es s .

3 n nd they cont inued t o do bus ine ss with me fo l lo wi n g t h i s .

4 And t h e re were some p eop le who f e l t th ey did n t wa n t t o do

5 bus in e ss wi t h me a f t e r t h a t .

6 How eve r , up u n t i l t he po i n t of A. J . We herrnan s

7 a r t i c l e app e a r ing in t h i s V i l l age Voice , I had nothing to

8 pu t my t ee th in to . A. J . Webe rman has ma de a s t atemen t .

9 He has sa id I am a governme n t in fo rmant who t es tifie d in

10 1977 befo r e a Brooklyn g r and jury . That did not tak e p l ac e .

11Oka y? All I an1 saying is if t h i s took p l a ce l e t me be

12a r a t in pub l i c . Let him come i n to cour t a nd s t a t e it

13 took p l a ce .

14 Q Mr . Ed er in the var ious time s you have s poke n

5with rep o r t e r s a nd j o u rn a l i s t s o r write r s wh e re yo u k n ew

16you had the oppor tun i ty to address the publ i c a bout your

17ca ree r in h i s t o ry , did y o u ever t ake the o ppo rtun i ty to

18de ny the a l l e ga t i o n made by HI GH TIMES MAGAZ I NE a nd t.he

19a t t or ney Michael Kennedy , in 1977 t h a t you were a D J·c o t i c

20in fo rma nt?

A2

I have not b e en i n te rv i ewed by any p ub l i c a t i o n

s ince t h a t took p l a ce . Do e s t h a t an swe r your que s t i o n ?22

Q Have you done a nything t o s eek t he oppor tun i ty23

to de ny t he a l l e g a t ion made a t th a t time by tho s e p a r t i e s?. 4

A No , b eca use I d i d n t kn ow wh a t t he recou r se s25

B LITZ REPORTING CO .

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Ede r 34

were o f f e r e d to me a t t h e t ime .

At t he t i me I wa s too punchy , i s t h e r i gh t

wo rd , hav in g t h i s t h i ng h appe n to me , t o t a ke e f f e c t i v e

a n e f f e c t i ve co un t e r a t t a ck . At t h i s t ime I have a n

tto r ney who i s w i l l in g to make a n e f f ec t i v e coun t e r a t t a ck

a nd fo r t h e r eco rd , un t i l s uch a t ime , un t i l I came i n t h i s

o f f ic e , I had n t thought abou t su ing HIGH TIMES an d Michae l

Kennedy , bu t I a m now .

Does t h a t answer you r ques tio n ?

Q I sit

t h e r e f o re t r u e , in f a c t , you neve r den ied

th a t a llega t i on o r so u gh t any o ppor tun i t y to deny i t ?

A I mos t c e r t a in ly did d eny th i s a l l e ga tio n .

Q To whom?

A To everyb ody I c ame ac ro s s , t nc luding Tom

Forcade , and a t one t ime t he re was a s i t u a t i o n wh e r e Forcade

n t e d t o mee t wi th me wi t h r eg a rd to t h i s , a nd h r e i s a

person i n New Yo r k Ci ty pos s i b l y who mi gh t be ab l e t o

t es t i fy to th a t . Aga i n , I canno t g ive th i s pe r s on s name

un t i l I have spoken to him

t i on s .

MR. MICHAELS : I have no fu r t he r q ues -

MR . K N : I have n o f u r the r que s t i o n s .

(T ime noted : _6 : 3 0 p m .

Subsc r ib e d and sworn to be fo re me

t h i s day o f 1979

BLITZ REPORTING CO

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C E R T I F I C A T E

STATE OF NEW YORK )

SS

COUNTY OF NEW YORI< )

I SHA RYN L . BAMBER , a Shor thand Repo r t e r

an d Notary Publ ic wi th in and fo r the S ta t e o f

Ne w York do hereby c e r t i f y :

Tha t ·cHIC EDER , t he wi t n es s \·1hose

p o s . i . t i o n i s herein.be fo r e s8 t fo r th , ·was • 1 u l • r

sworn by me a nd t h a t such p o i t i n i s t ue

r eco r d o f t h e t es t mony g ive n by s uc h L n

I f u r t h e r ce r t i f y t h a t 1 <:rn rio t r n l n. t ; rl

to any o f the pa r t i e s to t h i s a c t ion by b J O •d

~ r marr ia g e , and th a t I a m in no way 5 n t e r ~ s ~ a d

chic eder deposition in eder v. weberman

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