redacted 091119a motion to dism · maquet cv us sales, who then sells it to customers and then the...

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* NO COPY OF THIS TRANSCRIPT MAY BE MADE PRIOR TO DECEMBER 23 , 2019 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * IN RE: ATRIUM MEDICAL CORP. C-QUR MESH PRODUCTS LIABILITY LITIGATION * * * * 1:16-md-02753-LM September 11, 2019 9:03 a.m. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * REDACTED TRANSCRIPT OF MOTION TO DISMISS DAY THREE - MORNING SESSION BEFORE THE HONORABLE LANDYA B . McCAFFERTY Appearances : For the Plaintiffs : Jonathan D. Orent, Esq. Motley Rice, LLC Brian A. Glasser, Esq. Katherine E. Charonko, Esq. Bailey & Glasser LLP Susan Aileen Lowry, Esq. Upton & Hatfield, LLP D. Todd Mathews, Esq. Gori, Julian & Associates, PC For the Defendants : Mark S. Cheffo, Esq. Katherine Armstrong, Esq. Katherine E. Unger Davis, Esq. Dechert, LLP

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Page 1: REDACTED 091119A Motion to Dism · Maquet CV US Sales, who then sells it to customers and then the profit gets returned in the way you described yesterday, that is a fairly sophisticated

*NO COPY OF THIS TRANSCRIPT MAY BE MADE PRIOR TO DECEMBER 23, 2019

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURTFOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW HAMPSHIRE

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * IN RE: ATRIUM MEDICAL CORP. C-QUR MESH PRODUCTS LIABILITY LITIGATION

****

1:16-md-02753-LMSeptember 11, 2019 9:03 a.m.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

REDACTED TRANSCRIPT OF MOTION TO DISMISSDAY THREE - MORNING SESSION

BEFORE THE HONORABLE LANDYA B. McCAFFERTY

Appearances:

For the Plaintiffs: Jonathan D. Orent, Esq.Motley Rice, LLC

Brian A. Glasser, Esq.Katherine E. Charonko, Esq. Bailey & Glasser LLP

Susan Aileen Lowry, Esq.Upton & Hatfield, LLP

D. Todd Mathews, Esq.Gori, Julian & Associates, PC

For the Defendants: Mark S. Cheffo, Esq.Katherine Armstrong, Esq.Katherine E. Unger Davis, Esq.Dechert, LLP

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APPEARANCES CONTINUED:

For the Defendants: Pierre A. Chabot, Esq.Wadleigh, Starr & Peters PLLC

Court Reporter: Liza W. Dubois, RMR, CRROfficial Court ReporterU.S. District Court55 Pleasant StreetConcord, New Hampshire 03301 (603) 225-1442

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I N D E X

WITNESS: Direct Cross Redirect Recross

CHAD CARLTON 4 76 97

ALEX FERNANDEZ 102

EXHIBITS: FOR ID IN EVD

Plaintiffs' 237-243 75

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P R O C E E D I N G S

THE CLERK: The Court has before it for

consideration today day three in the motion to dismiss

hearing in In Re: Atrium Medical Corporation C-Qur Mesh

Products Liability Litigation, MDL docket number

16-md-2753-LM.

THE COURT: Okay. I think it's time for the

cross of Mr. Carlton.

And you were under oath, placed under oath

yesterday. We don't need to do that, place you -- re --

reoath you, do we?

THE WITNESS: No, we do not.

THE COURT: All right. So I'll just remind

you you're under oath.

Attorney Orent.

MR. ORENT: Thank you, your Honor.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. ORENT:

Q. Good morning, Mr. Carlton. How are you?

A. Good morning, Mr. Orent. Doing well.

Q. You clearly remember my name, so I don't need

to reintroduce myself, but I'm glad to talk to you

again.

You've been here for the last three days,

correct?

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A. Yes, I have.

Q. Okay. And you've seen all of the witnesses

and heard all of the testimony so far; is that right?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. Okay. Today, one of your job titles is

president of Atrium Medical?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Okay. You would agree with me that some of

the transactions that are involved in the sale of

medical devices that Atrium manufactures are complex

transactions, right?

A. I would agree they're complex transactions,

yes.

Q. Okay. In fact, all of the sales, as you

described yesterday and under the new contract that

began in 2017, all of the sales are fairly sophisticated

types of transactions, correct?

A. Can -- you said a specific date there?

Q. Right.

A. I'm sorry.

Q. I was referring to the October 21st, 2017,

contract --

A. Okay.

Q. -- where Getinge USA replaced Maquet US Sales?

A. Yes.

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Q. Okay. So let me ask this in two separate

questions.

The transaction that you discussed yesterday

where Atrium produces and sterilizes its medical

devices, sells it to Maquet CV LLC, who then sells it to

Maquet CV US Sales, who then sells it to customers and

then the profit gets returned in the way you described

yesterday, that is a fairly sophisticated and complex

transaction, correct?

A. It's the transfer of funds. I think each

individual transaction may not be complex. I think when

you're dealing with multiple transactions, you could

call that complexity.

Q. Okay. Would you agree with me that contracts

and documentation for things like that are very

important?

A. Yeah. As you -- having transactions are

important, yeah. I mean, having documentation for

transactions is important.

Q. Okay. And it wouldn't be a good thing for a

medical company to sell its medical devices without a

contract, correct? Through a transaction like this.

A. You would want a -- I mean, we created

contracts for that.

Q. Okay. And there were two of them and we'll go

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through that in a little bit, right? There's the one

with Maquet Entities and then there's the one with

Getinge US Sales, right?

A. I think there's more than just one contract.

I think there's multiple contracts with different

entities globally.

Q. Right. We'll get through that in a minute.

A. All right.

Q. I also want to just, as a preliminary matter,

go through -- we heard a lot of names yesterday and I

just want to make sure that I got it straight.

So Maquet, which was -- or Maquet Medical

Systems, that's not a -- that's not an incorporated

entity, correct?

A. So Maquet Medical Systems, to my knowledge, is

not. It's Maquet Holding would be what some people

refer that to. But there's a lot of Maquet -- there's a

lot of entities with the name Maquet in them.

Q. Okay. When referring to the medical systems

unit as Maquet, that's not incorporated, right?

A. Not to my knowledge, no.

Q. Okay. And that became Acute Care Therapies, I

think you testified to yesterday?

A. Yeah. And for some clarity, it wasn't the

exact structure that became Acute Care Therapies. Some

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of the businesses that were part of Maquet Medical

Systems were no longer grouped in that grouping. So

some of them went over to a different division within

Getinge Group.

Q. Okay. But for simplicity's sake, ACT is the

essential replacement of the Maquet Medical Systems

group, is this unit?

A. Yes. 75 percent, 80 percent of it, yes.

Q. Okay. And the Getinge Group, I think you

testified also, is not an incorporated entity, right?

A. Getinge Group, as I stated, was a -- I

consider it a brand name or a -- you know, for

encompassing all subsidiaries, indirect and direct, of

Getinge AB.

Q. Okay. Now, yesterday you were here when

Mr. Messina was questioned about his belief and his

opinion that mesh liability was known or knowable by

Atrium as of sometime in 2014. Do you recall hearing

that testimony?

A. I do recall hearing that testimony.

Q. Okay. Did you disagree with him?

A. What, that there was lawsuits on mesh? I

would agree that there were lawsuits in mesh in 2014.

Q. Okay. In fact, you were aware of substantial

litigation around polypropylene mesh in 2014; isn't that

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right?

A. Can you clarify your definition of

substantial?

Q. Sure. You were aware that there had been some

major hernia mesh litigation around Composix Kugel mesh,

right?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. And you were aware that that

settled in around I think 2011 or '12 for about

$200 million, right?

A. I don't recall exactly the figure, but I'll go

with you on that.

Q. Okay. And you were also aware that there were

tens of thousands of polypropylene mesh cases used for

other indications in West Virginia courts against about

33 medical mesh manufacturers, right?

A. Are you referring to the pelvic mesh?

Q. Yes.

A. I was aware of the -- the pelvic mesh

litigation, yes.

Q. Okay. And Atrium had an ongoing concern

through 2013 and '14 and even later about the uses of

its products because of potential litigation and

liability relating to certain uses of its devices,

right?

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A. You mean off-label uses of the device?

Q. Potentially, yeah.

A. Yeah, there were concerns about off-label

usage, yes.

Q. Okay. And you were aware that in 2013 --

2014, the first of the vaginal mesh manufacturers,

polypropylene mesh manufacturers, settled for almost

$830 million, right?

A. I'm not sure that I was aware of that. It

doesn't recall, but I may have been informed if it did

occur.

Q. Would you disagree?

A. You know, in -- I wouldn't disagree that that

happened.

Q. Okay. In 2012, you were with Atrium, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And you were aware -- John, if I could have

exhibit -- Plaintiff's 3, if we could go to the second

page, and if you could zoom in on that second paragraph.

Sorry. I just called you John. I thought

John was there. Hi, Gina.

And could we just back up and I want to get a

little bit more of the whole paragraph.

Thank you.

You see here that on this date in December

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2012, Atrium identified 629 complaint files containing

630 complaints. One was filed with two complaints by

accident.

Do you see that, in the first sentence?

A. So Atrium identified a total of 629 files

containing 630 complaints. Is that what you --

Q. Right. Do you see that?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And if you look at the next sentence,

14 of those were specific to one type of complication,

that is C-Qur infections, referenced in the FDA warning

letter.

A. Uh-huh.

Q. Right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And these complaints, these 630

complaints, had not been reported to the FDA and Atrium

had to go through them to determine how many of those

complaints needed to be reported to FDA through the MDR

process, right?

A. Yeah, they were complaints that were already

reported to Atrium. It was just whether they were filed

to the FDA.

Q. Okay. And it turned out that 231 of those

complaints had been determined to require reporting to

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the FDA, right?

A. That is because we managed to become more

conservative in our approach to reporting.

Q. You would agree with me that based on this

letter, 231 complaints were determined to require MDR

reporting?

A. Based on the method that we used to report,

yes.

Q. Okay. And MDR reporting is a requirement of

FDA, right?

A. The -- yes, you are required by the FDA to

report MDRs, yes.

Q. And just for the record, can you tell us what

MDR is?

A. Medical device reporting.

Q. Thank you.

And if we could turn to Exhibit 183 and if we

could go to the bottom of page 1, paragraph A.

Do you see there in paragraph a: The C-Qur

family of surgical mesh devices commercially released

and continued to be distributed without adequate

verification of sterile package integrity or performance

over the labeled shelf life.

Do you see that?

A. I'm aware of that, yes.

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Q. Okay. And if we turn the page to observation

number 3 on page 4. Excuse me.

And here, Atrium -- FDA finds that the

procedure for corrective and preventative actions has

not been adequately established. And, again, this is

with specific regard to C-Qur, correct?

If you look at paragraph --

A. Yeah, I'm -- I'm trying to read the whole

thing.

Can you -- can I see the next page, just to

read --

Q. Absolutely.

A. -- what it's all related to?

Q. Would you like a paper copy?

A. That would -- actually, if you just zoom in on

that top part, I think it'll be all right.

Okay. Yeah, I -- I'm aware of what that

finding is related to.

Q. Okay. And corrective and preventative actions

are where nonconforming products or nonconformities in

process have been identified and they need to be fixed,

essentially; is that right?

A. The -- you have identified something within

your quality system. So we identified a CAPA. We

identified that and, yes, the goal was to fix something.

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Q. Yup. Okay. So I'm going to show you what

I've marked as Exhibit 241. And this is a proactive

customer letter released on August -- April 29th, 2014,

and says: Proactive customer letter. There have been

inquiries in regards to Atrium's polypropylene mesh and

the release following announcement on FDA's website.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And essentially what Atrium is trying to do

here in April of 2014 is tell the world that our meshes

aren't subject to this and you shouldn't be using it

off-label, but for proper use, our mesh is okay. Is

that roughly what you're trying to say?

A. So can I see -- where does this letter come

from --

Q. This came --

A. -- and when was this sent?

Q. This was a draft email, excuse me, a draft

letter that was in -- do we have the custodial

information?

Have you seen this document before?

A. I -- I don't know the context with it and the

format of it, I'm not familiar with it. So it may have

come to me, but I'm just -- I'm only seeing a certain

portion of this.

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Q. Okay. Let's look at Exhibit 242. This is a

newspaper article from April 30, 2014, the following

day, noting that Endo agrees to a $830 million

settlement of vaginal mesh cases.

As president of a medical device company, you

would want to be up to date on competitive information,

correct?

A. I wasn't president at this time, but yes, I

would, as president, like to be up to date on

significant events in various industries, yes.

Q. Okay. But even in your head, in your role in

marketing, you would want to be aware of things like

this, right?

A. Yes, very much so. Yes.

Q. Okay. So do you agree with me that mesh and

mesh litigation was something that -- that Atrium was

aware of and would be concerned about monitoring?

A. The -- we were aware of the various items that

you have identified. So, yes, we were aware of Kugel

and also of vaginal mesh or pelvic mesh, as it's more

known.

Q. I'd like to turn to Exhibit 192.

And before we do that, actually, let me ask

you, do you know who Scott Waxler is?

A. Scott Waxler, I believe -- yes, I do. He was

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the -- he's an invest -- I want to call him an

investment banker, but he's a banker of some sort to

deal with the transactional merger. I can't remember

his exact title.

Q. And who is Eric Bielen?

A. Eric Bielen is our -- he's had a couple of

titles recently, so I'm just trying to -- but he's in

charge of our mergers and acquisitions and divestitures.

Q. And he's an employee of Getinge AB?

A. Currently, I think -- I don't -- I can't say

that for sure. I think because he's based out of

Belgium, he may not be an employee of Getinge AB.

Q. Would you agree that at one point he was?

A. I know -- I would agree that he's been part of

a subsidiary or an indirect subsidiary. I don't know

for sure that he was an employee of Getinge AB.

Q. All right. Would you agree that -- well,

let's look at Exhibit 192.

And Scott Walker -- excuse me --

A. Waxler.

Q. -- Waxler was involved in the project star

attempt to sell the mesh unit from -- to outside

individuals, correct?

A. Can you rephrase that, repeat that?

Q. Sure. Scott Waxler was hired as an investment

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banker to divest the hernia mesh business, correct?

A. And, again, the investment banker -- I'm not

sure on the exact title, but, yes, I would agree with

you on that.

Yes, there you are. He's an investment

banker.

Q. All right. So I want to show you an email

from Kai Trompeter to Scott Waxler dated 3/20/17.

A. Kai is how you produce his name.

Q. Okay. And Kai was one of the interested

bidders in the mesh line, correct?

A. He has been interested on and off over a

number of years, yes.

Q. Okay. And he says: Can you give me a brief

update on the below? And the title of the article is

Ohio Woman Sues Atrium Over C-Qur Hernia Injuries.

Do you see that?

A. I see that, yes.

Q. Okay. And if we could look at the next email

in the sequence, it says -- Scott forwards this to

Michael Dupont.

It says: Michael, can you please provide

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answer to me on Kai's question below. Have a great

weekend. PS, the issue that this question represents

seems to be representative of forward deal momentum.

Do you see that?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. If we turn the page.

And Eric Bielen responds to this and says:

Dear Scott,

Do you see that?

A. Insightra.

Q. Insightra. Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Okay. And he is -- Eric Bielen is -- his

address is in Göteborg, Sweden, on this document,

correct?

A. He has a Getinge -- I mean, he has a Göteborg,

Sweden, address, but I know he lives in Belgium.

Q. Well, at least as of 2017, buyers were

concerned about liability for hernia mesh litigation

from Atrium's devices, correct?

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A. Yes, they were.

Q. Okay. I'm going to show you Plaintiff's

Exhibit 200, please. Excuse me, 120.

And would you agree with me that this is a

Zurich insurance policy that Getinge AB purchased?

A. It says policyholder, Getinge AB with Zurich.

An insurance policy, yes.

Q. Okay. And if we could look down, this is

products liability for mesh products?

A. Products liability for mesh products, yes.

Q. Okay. And who's the policyholder?

A. Getinge AB.

Q. And who's the insured?

A. It says the insured is Getinge AB, including

its subsidiaries in the USA.

Q. And what is the insured business?

A. Manufacturing, marketing, and sales of mesh

implants.

Q. Okay. And what is the limit of liability?

A. It says

Q. Okay. And if you would turn to Exhibit 122.

And if we could pull that up, Gina.

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A.

Q. Okay. And if you would go to the "whereas"

paragraph, does this appear to be for mesh product

liability insurance?

A. So it says: Whereas the mesh products is

covered under the insurance policies.

Yes.

Q. And if you would read out loud into the record

the next line, beginning with "the parties have."

A.

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Q. All right. I want to now talk to you a little

bit about your employment.

Yesterday when you were here, you testified

that your employment currently was with Vascular Systems

as well as Atrium and you mentioned a facility in

France. Do you recall that?

A. Can you rephrase that question? Sorry.

Q. Sure. Do you recall yesterday testifying that

you're the managing director of Vascular Systems?

A. I testified that I am the managing director of

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Vascular Systems.

Q. And you were asked a question yesterday, can

you explain why this agreement -- and if we could bring

up Exhibit 7?

You were asked: Can you explain why this

agreement was with Getinge Group instead of with Atrium

Medical?

Do you recall that question?

A. Yes.

Q. And I believe your answer was essentially that

you were managing director of Vascular Systems at the

time, so you also oversaw La Ciotat.

Do you recall that, approximately?

A. I don't recall that that's what I responded on

this particular document.

Q. Let me ask you --

A. I responded on the next document that we

reviewed.

Q. Let me ask you, this agreement is made on

November 1st, 2016, by and between Getinge Group and

Chad Carlton, right?

A. That is correct.

Q. And Getinge Group's not a legal entity, is it?

A. No, it is not.

Q. Okay. So you signed a contract with a

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nonlegal entity, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And if we look at your positions and

duties -- Position and Duties. Executive shall serve as

managing director of Hudson/Merrimack and as president

of Atrium Medical Corporation. Executive shall be based

in Merrimack, New Hampshire, reporting to Jens Viebke,

president, Acute Care Therapies, and shall have such

responsibilities and duties consistent with such

position. Executive acknowledges that Getinge may

reassign him to a different position in the company

based on business requirements.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Did I read that correctly?

A. Yes, you did.

Q. Okay. And you testified earlier today that

Acute Care Therapies is not a legal entity, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. All right. So Jens Viebke is president of an

entity that is not a legal entity, right?

A. Correct.

Q. All right. And Getinge, an entity which is

not a legal entity, may reassign you to a different

position in the company based upon its requirements,

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right?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And let's scroll down to the

Compensation.

In consideration of the agreements made by

executive herein and the performance by executive of his

obligations under, during the employment term, Getinge

agrees to pay executive pursuant to Getinge normal and

customary payroll procedures a base salary equivalent

to -- and I'm not going to say it because I don't know

that this needs to be in the record. The base salary

shall be subject to annual review, although any

determination to increase the base salary shall be

within Getinge's sole discretion.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Okay. So in consideration of the agreements,

the executive -- and that's you -- and the performance

of you under the employment agreement with a nonlegal

entity, Getinge, that nonlegal entity is agreeing to pay

you; right?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay.

A. And they still do.

Q. Okay. And they -- the nonlegal entities

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reviews your base salary and adjusts it at its

discretion, correct?

A. Technically my boss does, yes.

Q. And, in addition, if we go down to the bottom,

under Standard Benefits: During the employment term,

executive shall be eligible to participate in the

employee benefits plans currently or hereafter

maintained by Getinge of general applicability to other

like executives of Getinge.

So here, this paragraph, they're saying that

the executive -- you can participate in plans maintained

by an entity that's not a legal entity, right?

A. It -- it's plans they've created as a group,

yeah.

Q. Okay. It's not a legal entity.

And to other executives of Getinge, which

isn't a legal entity, right?

A. Right.

Q. Okay. Let's turn the page.

Getinge's group medical, dental, vision,

disability, life insurance, and flexible spending

account plans are available to you, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And so a nonlegal entity is binding

itself to provide you medical, dental, vision,

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disability, and life insurance under this contract,

correct?

A. And I happen to get life insurance, dental,

vision, all that.

Q. Okay. And the Getinge executive vehicle

program, you're entitled to a Getinge executive vehicle

under this agreement, correct?

A. Yes, but I don't utilize one.

Q. Okay. But you are entitled to one

nonetheless?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. Okay. And so a -- a nonlegal entity is

binding itself to giving you the option of using an

executive vehicle, right, under your contract?

A. As -- yes.

Q. Okay. Executive life and disability program,

here Getinge is offering you eligibility to participate

in their executive life and disability program, correct?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Okay. And, again, this is a nonlegal entity

that's binding itself to giving you executive life and

disability, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And if we turn to the back of this agreement,

on page 7, we see that this is signed by Jens Viebke,

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president of Acute Care Therapies. Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Okay. And, again, Acute Care Therapies is not

a legal entity, right?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And it's also signed by Thomas

Marschal, vice-president human resources, Acute Care

Therapies; correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Again, not a legal entity, right?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. So these two gentlemen are signing and

binding a non- -- an entity that is -- that doesn't

exist?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. I'd like to turn to Exhibit 41.

And this is the indemnity agreement that you

spoke about yesterday. If we could zoom in on the front

part.

Now, yesterday you testified, and I think a

moment ago you testified, that La Ciotat facility is a

separate entity and I think that's the explanation you

offered as to why Getinge was offering the

indemnification; is that right?

A. Yes. La Ciotat is Intervascular SAS.

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Q. Okay. So if we look at this indemnity

agreement in the first paragraph: Whereas the Getinge

Group, acting through its parent company, Getinge AB,

together with Atrium Medical Corporation, collectively

Getinge, desires Chad Carlton to serve as an officer and

director of Atrium Medical Corporation and Getinge

further desires to indemnify executive in accordance

with the terms and conditions of this indemnification

agreement.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And so if I understand, your testimony is and

from yesterday -- well, strike that.

I don't see La Ciotat in that first sentence:

Whereas the Getinge Group, acting through its parent

company, Getinge AB, and together with Atrium Medical

Corporation, desires Chad Carlton to serve as officer

and director of Atrium Medical Corporation.

Do you see the word La Ciotat in there?

A. No, because that's a city.

Q. Okay. Do you see the name of the -- the

vascular entity, the company?

A. No.

Q. Okay. In fact, it's nowhere in this

indemnification agreement, is it?

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A. No, it's not.

Q. Okay. So what this agreement says within the

four corners of the agreement is that Getinge AB,

together with Atrium Medical Corporation, desires

Chad Carlton to serve as an officer and director of

Atrium Medical, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. It doesn't make any mention of any

other facilities, right?

A. Not the La Ciotat, nor the Wayne facility --

Q. Okay.

A. -- that I have products I oversee.

Q. So we have no proof other than your word that

this indemnification agreement is for anything other

than your job at Atrium, right? We have no documented

proof.

A. It's my indemnification agreement. I know why

I had it created.

Q. I'm not questioning that, sir, but I'm asking

within the four corners of the document, we have no

documentation to suggest that this is for what you've

said it was for.

A. Except for my word.

Q. Okay. We talked a little bit ago about

contracts and the importance of contracts. Do you

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recall that testimony?

A. The contracts -- are you meaning with selling

medical devices?

Q. Right. That's all --

A. Is that what you're referring back to?

Q. Do you recall that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And it's important when you're selling medical

devices, excuse me, when you're doing contracts that

they be accurate, right?

A. I -- I've learned that you always want to be

accurate, but I often find that contracts are not always

accurate.

Q. Okay. Well, I'm going to hand you or show

you -- and maybe I should hand you for the purposes of

this a paper copy because of the size of this exhibit.

Your Honor, may I approach the witness?

THE COURT: Yes.

A. Thank you.

Q. Sure.

Okay. So this is a distributorship agreement

that has been testified to as being the agreement that

sets out the deal that you have set forth on that easel;

is that right?

A. That easel is a general piece of the

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high-level standpoint. It is not the specific piece --

Q. Right. But this --

A. -- of transactions that take place, yeah.

Q. I understand. But this is the distributorship

agreement --

A. Yes.

Q. -- that governs --

A. Let me review before --

This is an agreement between Atrium and Maquet

Medical Systems. I'm not sure that I see -- and I'm not

completely familiar, I didn't read through this whole

document, but I don't see Maquet Cardiovascular LLC on

this.

Q. Well, that's because they're not on there.

This is the only distribution agreement prior

to the Getinge USA agreement that we'll get to that

later that was produced in this litigation and several

witnesses have testified about this agreement as being

the operative agreement. Do you disagree with those

witnesses?

A. If they are more familiar with the contract

than I am, I -- I don't know who those witnesses are

specifically.

Q. All right. So let me ask you, looking at

this, you would agree with me that if we look at the

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first paragraph, Atrium Medical Corporation, a Delaware

corporation and part of the Maquet Getinge Group,

hereinafter referred to as Maquet, and Maquet Medical

Systems USA, established at 45 Barbour Pond Drive,

hereafter Maquet SSU, hereby enter into the following

agreement.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Okay. And you would agree with me that this

legal entity is -- excuse me, this is not a legal entity

entering into this contract, true?

A. If it's Maquet Medical Systems USA, is it

USA -- is this the USA Sales that we say, Maquet Medical

Systems USA Sales LLC.

Q. Medical Systems isn't a -- isn't a legal

entity, correct?

A. No, but the -- in terms of Maquet Medical

Systems USA, maybe. I don't know. This is from

December 31st, 2012, so -- whereas that relationship

occurred in January of 2014.

So I'm just trying to -- I'm trying to mesh

this right now.

Q. All right. Well, there is no agreement from

2014.

A. Okay.

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Q. Have you ever seen an agreement from 2014?

A. I wasn't responsible in that area in 2014.

Q. Well, you testified about this relationship

yesterday, right?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Okay. Can you show me anywhere in this

document where the profit of 50 percent going back to

Atrium is?

A. And, by the way, that's an approximate profit

that comes back and it depends -- I believe I said

yesterday it depends on the product line.

Q. But can you show me anywhere where that

document -- or this document shows those approximate

product profit lines?

A. I don't know that there's any prices

associated with this document.

Q. Okay. And if we look at the agreement, I want

you to turn to the signature page, on page 14. Do you

see this is dated December 31st, 2012?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And what I want to do is I want to pull down

the bottom of this page, the document. How is it that

this document was created on April 17th, 2013, it is

dated and signed December 31st, 2012. Do you have an

answer for that?

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A. I do not have an answer for that.

Q. Okay. I'd like to turn to page 8. Excuse me,

page 7.

A. So, by the way, I did notice that it says

Maquet Cardiovascular LLC on the document that you kind

of showed down there.

Q. On page 8?

A. Down at the bottom --

Q. You can flip through it.

A. -- that you just showed me.

Q. Yes. Yes, it does, which is one of the

entities there.

A. Yeah, that's the first --

Q. And that doesn't match up with the entity that

is the signatory, correct?

A. Again, I don't know if there was any

transition or change. This was in 2012 versus 2013 or

'14.

Q. All right. Can we look at page 7, your

applicable law and jurisdiction.

So presuming it's Maquet Medical, a nonlegal

entity, this agreement is to be construed and governed

in accordance with the laws of state of Delaware.

Do you see that?

A. I'm sorry. Page 7 where?

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Q. I'm sorry. At the bottom, section 11.

A. Section 11. Okay.

Yes.

Q. Okay. And it lists a place of jurisdiction

and it lists that the adjudication will be in Delaware,

right, and depositions to occur in New Jersey?

A. Yes, it does.

Q. Okay. And then if we turn to page 8, on the

section 14, first paragraph, we see Maquet agreeing to

be bound by and adhere to the laws of the United States,

right?

A. Yup.

Q. Okay. If we turn to page 19, we see Medical

Systems Internal Guide and Getinge Corporate Manual.

Maquet acknowledges receipt and acceptance of the terms

contained in the documents referenced below.

And these are the Medical Systems documents,

right, the Medical Systems group?

A. Again, I'm not familiar with these, but I'll

take your word for it.

Q. Okay. So if you never saw a contract, how

were you able to describe that transaction yesterday?

Was that based on practice?

A. That was through discussions with Gary Sufat.

Q. Okay. So you have no personal knowledge of

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that?

A. He signed this contract, but that's his

explanation to me.

Q. Okay. And when your brother testified, he

said: I wouldn't say it was an agreement. It was their

integration plan. And they would -- they would pace out

what their SSUs, take over sales, so it just started

with one or two SSUs and then kept going. And so there

was -- it was an overall plan on when -- when the Atrium

teams would be -- would be handing off sales

responsibilities to the Maquet SSU.

And that's at page 207, lines 10 through 25 of

his deposition.

So would you agree with me that the

knowledge -- you're not professing to have more

knowledge than your brother, who was president at the

time, correct?

A. I -- I was aware in certain discussions in

terms of integration plans of various SSUs and the time

point. I think you probably found that in some of my

documents.

Q. When your brother says -- so as president of

Atrium business unit, did you have any involvement in

the discussions as to the terms of the distribution

agreement between Atrium and Maquet, page 213, line 16

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through 214 line 6, when he says: I don't recall, but I

don't think there were ever negotiations. I think it

was an agreement that was just required to properly

transfer the product.

Question: So when you say there weren't any

negotiations, is it your understanding that this is

something that Maquet put in place so that the products

could be transferred from Atrium to Maquet and then sold

by Maquet?

Answer: That would be my assumption.

You don't disagree with your brother, do you?

A. I disagree that we had no input on it. We set

transfer prices.

Q. Do you have personal knowledge of that?

A. That we set transfer prices?

Q. No. Do you have personal knowledge of the

negotiation of the contract?

A. Of the negotiation contract, no, but I have --

Q. Okay.

A. -- knowledge that we set transfer prices.

Q. Now, if we go back to Exhibit 2, that sales

agreement, there's -- there's nothing attached here that

is a price list.

A. I -- I stated that, yes.

Q. Okay. All right. Now, hopefully we can go --

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we're going to look at Exhibit 66 now, which is the

agreement that is in effect now, I believe.

You testified yesterday that as of October

1st, 2017, Atrium was now setting -- selling through,

ultimately, Getinge USA Sales; is that correct?

A. Through Maquet Cardiovascular LLC and then

through Getinge USA Sales.

Q. Okay. And if we look on the first paragraph

here on the first page, we see that this agreement is

effective October 1st, 2017, commencement date. And

that's consistent with what you testified to yesterday,

right?

A. That is correct.

Q. And it's consistent because you would want to

make sure that you had an agreement at the time -- you

don't want to sell a product -- strike that.

It's consistent and you wouldn't want to sell

a product without a contract, right, as president?

A. As -- as you're aware, they transitioned in

terms of their piece to another piece, so we were

putting a contract into place to reflect that.

Q. Okay. What I'd like to do is I'd like to turn

to the signature page. Your signature is -- can be

found on Bates ending 2732.

Okay. If we could zoom in, Chad Carlton, and

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that's dated 06 July, 2018, right?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. And you wrote that?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. So there's no contract from October 1st, 2017,

the commencement date, signed through to 6 July, 2018,

right?

A. There's no signed contract, no.

Q. Okay. So we can't find -- of the two sales

agreements, we can't find an accurate agreement that was

written without errors, can we?

A. I -- as I stated, and I think this probably

occurs in many different companies that what you want

and put in place may not always seem clear and concise.

We try our best.

Q. All right. Now, I want to now talk about the

sales service agreements. And I think you testified

that Atrium participates and receives some services

under these agreements, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. If we could turn to Exhibit 87, please.

A. Hang on one second.

Okay. Thank you.

Q. Okay. So if we look at the first page, this

is an agreement between Getinge AB and Atrium Medical

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Corporation, correct?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Okay. And Getinge AB here is called the

provider, right?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Okay. And then it says where is -- whereas,

excuse me -- provider and its affiliated companies

constitute a multinational group of enterprises and

recipient is a member of this group.

Do you see that?

A. Yes.

Q. And then it goes on to say: All companies of

the group have a continuing need for advice and

assistance in various areas, including finance,

information technology, human resources and management,

as set out in Annex 1.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Okay. And the service departments of provider

are staffed with highly experienced personnel and form a

valuable resource which can provide and coordinate a

variety of useful and beneficial services in the

above-mentioned areas to other companies of the group by

drawing on its own resources as well as on those

available from other companies in the group or from

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third parties.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And then it says provider is willing to render

to recipient -- so, in this case, it's Getinge AB -- is

willing to render to recipient -- and recipient being

Atrium -- and Atrium desires to use such services.

That's what this agreement says, right?

A. That's -- you've read it correctly, yes.

Q. Okay. Engagement of Provider. Recipient,

that would be Atrium, hereby engages provider, that'd be

Getinge AB, right --

A. Yes.

Q. -- okay -- to carry out such of the functions

as set in Annex 1 for the company as the recipient may

reasonably request and the provider shall agree to

perform from time to time.

Do you see that?

A. From time to time, yes.

Q. Okay. And these fees -- excuse me.

And we heard earlier, and I think we saw, that

there were fees associated with the services, correct?

A. Yeah, there are fees associated with the

services.

Q. Okay. And if we look at Terms and Termination

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on page 5, we can see that this agreement shall be

effective as of November 4th, 2011, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And that makes sense, because that's the time

of the closing of the acquisition by Getinge AB, right?

A. Yes, it does.

Q. Okay. What I'd like to do is turn the page

now and I'd like to zoom in on the signature and the

date.

So it appears that this agreement was

backdated by about two years, correct?

A. Well, I think he signed it on that date and it

reflected the contract earlier, yes.

Q. Okay. Thank you. You can put that aside.

I'd like to look at Plaintiff's 89.

Okay. So this is a replacement contract that

came in and this one, again, is between Getinge AB and

the parties listed in Annex 1. And Atrium is a party

listed in Annex 1, right?

A. Yes, it is. I would believe it is, yes.

Q. Okay. At this time, Atrium -- excuse me --

Getinge refers to itself as a pass-through entity,

right?

A. Yes.

Q. Otherwise, the process is roughly the same;

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Atrium -- excuse me, Getinge coordinates services for

the benefit of the recipients, right?

A. So -- right. Repeat that again. I'm sorry.

Q. So, otherwise, despite the name change from

provider to pass-through entity, the terms of this

agreement are basically the same.

A. I'm not familiar enough with the original

agreement and this agreement to compare them side by

side. The concept is the same, I would agree with you,

that they provide services and they serve as a -- as

Peter stated in his testimony, as kind of -- they would

collect the different invoices and charge that down to

us, depending on where it was.

Q. They also acted like a general contractor

almost, right, coordinating the services?

A. I -- I haven't worked with general contractors

enough to state if that's how they behave.

Q. All right. If you look at the last sentence

on the page: Pass-through entity shall provide the

services on a continuing basis without any further

specific request or whenever recipient places an order

for them with any of the group internal service

providers.

Do you see that?

A. Pass-through entity will, through the Getinge

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internal services provider, render the services to

recipients throughout the term of this agreement.

Pass-through entity shall provide the services on a

continuing basis without any further specific request.

So it's meaning it will continue on without

having to do multiple requests, yes.

Q. Okay. All right. And if we turn to page 4,

this agreement was signed on behalf of pass-through

entity by Joacim Lindoff on 3/1/2017. Do you see that?

A. Joacim, yes.

Q. Okay. If we turn the page, we see just a

little bit later, on 6 April, 2017, Steve Emery signs

for Atrium.

Do you see that?

A. Yes.

Q. And if we turn to page 12, we see: Acute Care

Therapies business support services include, but not

limited to, the following services.

So would you agree with me that these are the

types of services that Acute Care Therapies' businesses

would be able to receive?

A. Give me a second. Sorry.

Okay. I'm familiar -- yeah, they can provide

some of these, yes, different entities, including our

entity, yeah.

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Q. Okay. And so they provide market analysis,

right?

A. Yeah, we do that as well.

Q. Okay. They provide some global solutions

management, right?

A. Yeah.

Q. Commercial operations?

A. Okay. Yes.

Q. Okay. Finance and PMO?

A. Yeah. We do a lot of that internally, though.

Q. But you do receive some support, right?

A. Yeah, but it's local, so it's kind of a

different transaction.

Q. And you receive quality and regulatory

compliance assistance, correct?

A. Well, that -- again, that's internal, so there

may be things like some audits that we may get from

other individuals that would be crossed, but a lot of

those things are actually done internally to us.

Q. Okay. So both internal and external on those?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Going back now to page 4, again, just

to reorient us, this was signed on 3/1/2017, right?

A. By Joacim.

Q. Okay. I want to turn back to page 3.

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And this agreement is effective 1 January,

2016, about a year and two months earlier, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. So we've now looked at four documents

that appear to be backdated today, right?

A. They're -- I just want to be careful with the

term backdating. They are -- they are dated and they

were in effect before that. Backdating has a very

negative connotation that you can't do in the medical

device industry.

Q. The dates on the documents were signed after

the effective date began?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Now, you also talk about -- talked

about the organizational structure of Atrium. I want to

hand -- look at Plaintiff's 1, page 2.

This is the last org chart that I have been

provided with in the discovery in this case. I believe

this is from 2017. We used this in --

A. It's somewhat outdated.

Q. Right. I understand that, but --

A. Okay.

Q. -- I'm going to ask you, as of 2017,

Jens Viebke was president of Acute Care Therapies?

A. Correct.

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Q. And he was the boss, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And then there was you, Chad Carlton,

managing director, president, Atrium Medical

Corporation, right?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And then we see there's a -- if you

look at the bottom there, there are three little stars,

and they say not Atrium QMS, not on-site, right?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And we see that for chief commercial

officer, Acute Care Therapies, marketing, Ajey Atre.

Do you see that?

A. Correct.

Q. All right. And I just want to stop there for

a minute.

So Ajey's off-site and not an Atrium employee,

right?

A. Ajey is off-site and not an Atrium employee,

correct.

Q. Okay. Now, we talked earlier about Acute Care

Therapies, right?

A. (Nods head.)

Q. So Acute Care Therapies -- we've now seen that

Acute Care Therapies has a president, right --

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A. Yes.

Q. -- Jens Viebke?

A. Uh-huh.

Q. They have Thomas Marschal, vice-president of

HR, right?

A. You're referring to at this time, correct?

Q. At this time.

A. So at this time there was the creation of

that, yes.

Q. Okay. There's a chief commercial officer in

Ajey Atre, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And Gary Sufat was actually made the

CFO of Acute Care Therapies, right?

A. And he was also -- I believe at this time -- I

would have to know when Alistair was made CFO. But he,

I believe, was also CFO of Atrium at that time, too.

Q. Okay.

A. He had joint roles.

Q. Okay. But he held the position of CFO of

Acute Care Therapies, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. So Atrium -- so Acute Care Therapies,

though it's not a legal entity, we saw that it has

contracts, right? It signs contracts?

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A. Okay. Yes.

Q. Okay. And we saw that it has officers, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And we saw that the Getinge Group also

has officers, the GET team, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And we saw that the Getinge Group has

contracts like your agreement, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And you get paid pursuant to that

agreement, right?

A. I get paid by Atrium Medical, yes.

Q. You get paid pursuant to that agreement?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. All right. Focusing back on Exhibit

2 -- excuse me, Exhibit 1 -- want to turn the page,

please?

And here this is HR, again back in 2007. So

we see -- I think this is -- '17, excuse me.

This is indicative of, I think, the -- the

shared services agreement.

We see Thomas Marschal, George Sanders,

Andreas Fagher, those three individuals. And Andreas

Fagher, if we could highlight.

So George Sanders not on-site, not an employee

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of Atrium, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And that's the top of the HR food

chain, right?

A. George Sanders at this time --

Q. At this time.

A. -- yes.

Q. Okay. And underneath him was Andreas Fagher,

right?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And that's vice-president, human

resources, supply chain function, right?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And that was -- again, that person's

not on-site, right?

A. Correct.

Q. Matt Kelly, manufacturing consumables director

of HR, that person is on-site, right?

A. That is correct.

Q. Okay. So Matt Kelly's boss was -- that's a

direct line, solid-line report, right?

A. You also have other people who are on-site in

this piece.

Q. Right, I understand. I'm focusing just on the

Matt Kelly-Andreas Fagher relationship. That's a direct

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solid-line report, right?

A. At that time, that was a solid line and he had

a dotted line to me, correct.

Q. Okay. Solid-line means that that person is

the boss; they do their year-end reviews, that sort of

thing, right?

A. Yeah. Oftentimes on a dotted line I may have

some contribution to that.

Q. Okay. Thomas Marschal -- at this time, okay,

and today -- not an Atrium employee, not on-site, right?

A. Correct.

Q. And Nancy Michael, director of HR, Acute Care

Therapies, not on-site, right?

A. She's not on-site, no.

Q. Okay. Let's turn the page to information

technology.

Okay. And here we see two different chains

here, but we see Ludovic Batal, vice-president, group IT

operations, and Matthias Gelsok, chief information

officer.

Do you see those two individuals?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Okay. Both not on-site and not Atrium

employees, right?

A. Correct.

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Q. Okay. And they have direct-line reports. So

the first person we see that appears to be on-site is

Tom McDonnell?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And he's VP of IT Operations for the

Americas, so he's on-site, but he also has off-site

responsibilities at this time, right?

A. Correct. So when we talk about shared

services, he's able -- some of his team contracts out

and sends some things to other sites as well as here,

so --

Q. Right. So when we talk about contacts under

the -- the -- those two contracts, the shared services

agreement, Atrium is both a recipient of services, but

then it also provides services back through the

contract, through Getinge AB, to other companies in the

organization, right?

A. That is correct.

Q. Okay. So, here, Tom McDonnell would be an

example of that, right?

A. Yes, he would.

Q. All right. Now, I want to look at Shen Lu,

vice-president, IS SSC Getinge, and at this point in

time, the next person down is an open position, right?

A. That's what it appears, yes.

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Q. Okay. All right. Let's now go to accounting

and finance.

All right. So Gary Sufat, chief financial

officer of Acute Care Therapies and was supervising

through a solid line Stephen Emery, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Now, we see over to the right,

Lena Hagman, EVP Quality -- group quality regulatory

compliance, and she's off-site, right?

A. Yes, she is. It's --

Q. She's a GET team member, right?

A. She is a GET team member, correct.

Q. Okay.

A. So that's -- she's on this because

Alistair Ryan not only reports to Stephen Emery, but

also reports out elsewhere within the organization. And

I believe at -- I don't know for sure, but I believe at

this time it may have been also to Lena.

Q. Okay. Colleen Hargove, director of finance,

budget analysis, also not on-site, not an Atrium

employee, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And those two individuals have

functions related to remediation of the Atrium facility

and performance under the consent decree, correct? In

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terms of budgeting for that, on this.

A. Colleen does? I -- I don't recall Colleen

being involved in that. Alistair would.

Q. Okay. Alistair, too, not on-site?

A. No, Alistair is on-site.

Q. All right. Okay. We're done with this

exhibit.

Gina, can I have Exhibit 174. If we could

turn to page 4.

Earlier today when we were talking about mesh

liabilities and mesh lawsuits, I forgot to ask you this

question.

Atrium was aware -- Atrium had received a

letter in March of 2009, hadn't it -- and you can see

there's a lot of deposition testimony on this from

Mr. McNamara, so I'll represent to you that this letter

found its way to Atrium.

From LyondellBasell -- and LyondellBasell,

just for the Court, is the manufacturer of the

polypropylene used in the -- the C-Qur devices, is it

not?

A. To my -- it's the -- we usually say Basell,

but if it's Basell, I don't know the -- the right

terminology.

Q. Okay. And the manufacturer data sheet that

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comes with -- the safety data sheet, rather, that comes

with the polypropylene actually warns and has warned for

some time not to put in humans, correct?

A. The original data sheet said -- did not say

that.

Q. Okay. Well, in 2004 and 2005, individuals

from Atrium actually called the manufacturer and were

told not to use this in medical devices, were they not?

A. That part, I don't -- I'm not aware of.

Q. Okay. Well, I'm going to show you and we're

going to skip to it because I just brought this document

with me. This is a March 6th document from 2009.

And Atrium got this letter and we have a lot

of testimony. And it says: I'm writing this letter on

behalf of Basell, or Basell USA, a member of the

LyondellBasell Industries group of companies, because it

has come to our attention that certain users of Basell's

Pro-fax 6523 polypropylene resin -- and that's the resin

we just talked about that's in C-Qur, right?

A. It's the resin used for all of our

polypropylene.

Q. Okay.

That they may be utilizing this material in

implantable medical devices. Basell's very clear

policy, as expressed in our product data sheets -- and

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that's the one I was just referring to, right?

A. I -- I haven't seen the exact ones, but I'll

take your word for it.

Q. Okay.

Is that our materials, including but not

limited to Pro-fax 6523, are never to be used in FDA

Class III medical devices and may only be used in FDA

Class II medical devices with Basell's prior written

approval.

Do you see that?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And then it goes on to say: In

addition, it has been our long-standing policy that our

materials are not -- not -- to be used in implantable

medical devices, regardless of their FDA classification.

Atrium knows this as of 2009 the latest,

right?

A. According to this letter, that's -- that's the

case.

Q. Okay. All right. I'm going to move on from

there.

All right. Yesterday your counsel asked you

some questions about the consent decree. Do you recall

those questions?

A. Yes, I do.

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Q. I'd like to bring up Exhibit 209.

And we see that this is from the consent

decree. You can see the case here, Atrium Medical Corp.

vs. Maquet BV Holdings, Maquet Cardiovascular,

et cetera, and this is an unopposed motion to remove

Gail Christie from the caption of the consent decree and

substitute Lena Hagman.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Have you read this document before?

A. I don't know that I have read that document.

Q. Okay. Well, I want to look at the bottom of

the first page. It says: Ms. Christie has ceased to be

employed by or act on behalf of any of the corporate

defendants. So -- and substitute a new individual

defendant to the caption, Lena Hagman.

Do you see that?

A. I see that.

Q. Were you aware that Gail Christie represented

and was responsible for oversight of the consent decree

for all of the corporate defendants?

A. She -- yeah, the -- from a quality

perspective, yeah, her name was on the consent decree,

yes.

Q. Okay. So if we turn the page, I want to focus

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on paragraph 4.

Paragraph 30 of the consent decree provides as

follows, and I'm not going to read the whole thing. I'm

going to start midway through the bottom of the

paragraph, kind of in the middle, right here.

An individual defendant shall notify FDA

within 30 days after said defendant ceases to be

employed by or act on behalf of all the corporate

defendants.

So what this is saying is that Gail Christie

should notify FDA within 30 days after she ceases to be

employed by or act on behalf of all of the companies

that are listed on the front. Is that your

understanding as well?

A. That's -- my understanding is that the FDA

required that.

Q. Okay.

Once an individual defendant ceases to be

employed or otherwise act for all of the corporate

defendant entities, corporate defendants shall petition

the court to formally remove that individual's name from

the caption of this decree and the United States will

not oppose such motion, so long as -- so long as -- FDA

has sufficient evidence or information that the

individual defendant to be removed is no longer directly

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or indirectly working with or in any way -- this goes

onto the next page -- influencing corporate defendant

entities.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I see that.

Q. Okay. It then goes on to say, starting here:

United States will not oppose such motion so long as FDA

has sufficient evidence or information that the Christie

substitute defendant is vested with responsibility for

all quality system functions as described in paragraph

12.

So this is saying that -- that all of the

quality system functions have to be vested in this

replacement personal defendant, right?

A. That is the case, yes.

Q. Okay. Let's turn to page 4, paragraph 9.

Lena Hagman is now the individual vested with

responsibility for all quality systems for the corporate

defendants.

And that is a defined term, right? That means

all of the corporate defendants, including Atrium,

right? Correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay.

As described in paragraph 12 of the consent

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decree. Accordingly, and solely -- solely -- because

she has that responsibility by reason of her position as

executive vice-president for quality regulatory

compliance, the corporate defendants hereby petition the

court to substitute Gail Christie with Lena Hagman,

whose substitution will satisfy both the Christie

substitute defendant and substitute individual defendant

provisions of paragraph 30 of the consent decree.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Okay. And I want to look at the last

paragraph -- the last sentence of paragraph 10.

THE COURT: We're going to take our break

after you --

MR. ORENT: Absolutely.

THE COURT: -- finish this.

Q. And do you see where it says Ms. Hagman

consents to giving this court personal jurisdiction over

her?

A. Yes, I see that.

Q. Okay. And I want to just scroll to the

caption page here. If we could go to just the front

page, please, Gina, and scroll up here.

What court is that?

A. United States District Court of New Hampshire.

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Q. And where are we today?

A. United States District Court. I mean United

States District Court, District of New Hampshire.

MR. ORENT: Okay. Your Honor, now's a good

time for that break.

THE COURT: Okay. Good. We'll take our

break. We'll be back --

MR. ORENT: Thank you.

THE COURT: -- at close to 10:30.

(Recess taken from 10:20 a.m. until 10:38 a.m.)

THE COURT: Go ahead, Attorney Orent.

Q. Mr. Carlton, yesterday you were asked some

questions by your counsel and I'm just going to

paraphrase briefly, but I believe you testified roughly

that Atrium is responsible for the production of the

C-Qur mesh devices; is that right?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. I believe that you testified that Atrium is

the one that is responsible for the design of the C-Qur

devices, right?

A. Yes, we are.

Q. And I believe you testified that you were

responsible for the -- you being Atrium -- were

responsible for the quality systems related to the C-Qur

devices, right?

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A. Yes, we are.

Q. And also the packaging of the C-Qur mesh

devices, correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. Okay. What I'd like to do is I'd like to turn

to Exhibit 184. And, again, this is a copy of the

consent decree.

And if you look on page 5, it says here:

Specifically, defendants shall take the following

actions, among others; number one, establish and

maintain procedures to control defendants' devices'

designs in order to ensure the specified design

requirements are met.

Would you agree that establishing and

maintaining procedures to control the design of C-Qur in

order to ensure that the specified design requirements

are met is part of the design of the device?

A. Can you repeat that question for me?

Q. Sure.

A. Sorry.

Q. If you look at paragraph -- the first

paragraph there, would you agree that establishing and

maintaining procedures to control design in order to

ensure that specified design requirements are met is an

obligation of a medical device manufacturer?

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A. So we -- we are required to maintain the

design procedures and -- yes, we are -- that is

something we are required to do.

Q. Okay. And would you agree with me under the

consent decree that Lena Hagman is personally, in her

official capacity, responsible to make sure that

defendants establish and maintain procedures to control

defendants' devices' designs in order to ensure that

specified design requirements are met?

A. I believe she gave that responsibility to me

locally.

Q. Do you see anywhere in the consent decree

where she can assign away that responsibility?

A. I would have to read through further, but I

believe she has the power to do that through regulations

in terms of creating a local designate.

Q. Let's quickly move to -- you'd be a local

designate, not the ultimate responsible party, true?

A. I am the management with authority and within

the FDA that has a specific connotation associated with

it.

Q. All right. Let's -- let's turn to paragraph

12.

Corporate defendants shall vest responsibility

for all quality system functions, as designed -- as

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defined in 21 C.F.R. 8020.3(v)(sic) in the specified and

additional facilities an individual who shall be

authorized and responsible for all quality system

functions at the specified and additional facilities,

including establishing, implementing, and maintaining a

comprehensive written program -- quality program -- to

ensure defendants' continuous compliance with this

decree, the Act, and the QS, CR, and MDR regulations.

As you sit here today, you understand that

Lena Hagman is that individual, correct?

A. She has the overall responsibility and she has

vested -- she has provided that responsibility to me

locally, yes.

Q. Okay. But it's her name that's on the

caption?

A. Huh?

Q. Her name is the one that we looked at on the

caption.

A. Well, on this particular one she's not, but on

the other one she is.

Q. Right. And that document -- and we can look

back at Exhibit 209 -- that document says that she's

being substituted in place of Gail Christie, right?

That's what we saw.

A. Correct.

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Q. Okay. So this document doesn't say your name,

does it?

A. It does not have my name, no.

Q. Okay. Document 209 does not have your name?

A. No, it does not.

Q. Okay. Your name has not been submitted by

Lena Hagman for approval to the FDA for substitution of

her, has it?

A. No, it's -- it's documented locally that I am

the management with responsibility, though.

Q. You are the local management responsibility,

but ultimately she is the party on the consent decree.

You agree with that?

A. She is a party on the consent decree.

Q. Okay.

A. And Atrium Medical is as well.

Q. All right. Let's go back to page 6.

Do you agree with me that a manufacturer of

medical devices has an obligation to ensure that all

devices meet requirements for design, development, and

planning? Do you agree with me that?

A. We -- yes.

Q. And would you agree with me that a medical

device manufacturer in the design process has design

planning as part of it?

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A. Are you meaning the next bullet or --

Q. No, I'm asking you a question.

A. Okay.

Q. Would you agree with me that part of the

design process is design development and planning?

A. Design -- can you elaborate planning?

Q. In the way the FDA uses it.

A. So it -- in terms of design, design and

validate the product, yes, absolutely.

Q. Okay. Design inputs, design outputs, design

review, those are all functions that a medical device

manufacturer has obligations for under MDR regulations,

correct?

A. Absolutely.

Q. Okay. Design verification, a medical device

manufacturer has to do that, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Design validation, a medical device

manufacturer has to do that, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Design change, design transfer, those are

things that medical device companies have to do,

correct?

A. Yes, they do.

Q. And as well as maintain a design history file,

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correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. And Atrium -- strike that.

All of this work has been done for the C-Qur

device, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. And Lena Hagman, via the consent

decree, has personal responsibility for each of those

under this decree; isn't that right?

A. She has personal responsibility for that -- I

think that would be a stretch.

Q. Well, don't you see here it says:

Specifically, defendants shall take the following

actions, right?

A. And Atrium is one of those defendants.

Q. Right. But that's plural, right? If we look

back -- let's go back to page 1.

The term defendants is a defined term and if

we look here, we can see it. We can see that it's both

the corporate defendants and the individual defendants,

right?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. So if we go back to page 5, the way a

defined term works is that another way to say that would

be specifically the corporate defendants and the

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individual defendants shall take the following actions,

among others.

Would you agree with that?

A. Specifically the defendants shall take the

following actions, among others.

Q. Right. And in place of the defined term,

defendants, we could use the individual definitions that

were given; we could say specifically the corporate

defendants and the individual defendants shall take the

following actions, among others. Isn't that right?

A. I guess so, yes.

Q. Okay. Now, if we go to number 2, excuse me,

number 3: Conduct design evaluations of all marketed

devices to ensure that current designs have been

properly validated and transferred into appropriate

product specifications.

That's something that a manufacturer of

medical devices has to do, correct?

A. Yes. Yes.

Q. In fact, that's -- that was done with C-Qur,

correct?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. And under the consent decree it was redone to

make sure that you were compliant with the consent

decree, right?

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A. I -- I think it was redone prior to the

consent decree.

Q. Okay. Through the regulatory process, the

483 process?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay.

A. The 483 process?

Q. You understand that there were a series --

strike that.

All right. Let's go on to the next sentence.

Number 4, can we bring that back up, Gina?

Validate processes whose results cannot be

fully tested by subsequent inspection testing. Still on

page 6. Right here. Right there. Thank you.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I see that.

Q. And that's a responsibility of a medical

device manufacturer, correct?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. And it was placed in here as a -- something

that needed to be done under the consent decree as well,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. If we go down here to number 5,

develop, conduct, control, and monitor production

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processes, ensure the devices conform to their

specifications.

That is a -- something that needs to be done

with medical devices, correct?

A. That is something in the regulations, yes.

Q. Okay. And Atrium has done that?

A. Yes, it has.

Q. Okay. And it's been done with regard to the

C-Qur device, correct?

A. Yes, it has.

Q. Okay. And that is part of manufacture,

correct?

A. That is part of -- part of the whole process

of design and developing and manufacturing a product,

yes.

Q. Okay. 6, establish and implement adequate

written procedures to control devices that do not

conform to specified requirements.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. That's a requirement of all medical device

manufacturers, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Atrium did that with regard to the C-Qur

device, correct?

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A. Yes, it has.

Q. And it was required under the consent decree,

correct?

A. It's required of the -- they're referring to

the C.F.R. earlier in this and, yes, it's part of the

regulations and it's part of the consent decree, yes.

Q. Okay. 7: Establish and maintain adequate

written procedures for corrective and preventative

actions, documenting those activities.

That is a requirement of medical device

manufacturers, correct?

A. That is a requirement of the medical device

manufacturers, yes.

Q. It was done for the C-Qur devices, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And it's in the consent decree, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. 8: Maintain accurate and complete

complaint files and establish and implement adequate

written procedures receiving, reviewing, and evaluating

complaints.

Do you see that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. That's a requirement of medical device

manufacturers, correct?

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A. As mentioned earlier, yes.

Q. Okay. That was done for C-Qur, correct?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. And it's required under the consent decree,

correct?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Okay. Number 9: Develop and implement

adequate written MDR procedures in compliance with

21 C.F.R. part 803, including but not limited to

adequate procedures for management review and ensure

that employees are trained on, understand, and properly

implement the MDR requirements and procedures.

Do you see that?

A. Yes.

Q. And that's required of medical device

manufacturers, correct?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. It was done with C-Qur, correct?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. And it's required under the consent decree,

correct?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Okay. Gina -- okay. If we could bring up

page 125 from yesterday and focus on line 6 through 14,

please.

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Yesterday --

MS. ARMSTRONG: I'm sorry. What is this

document?

MR. ORENT: This is the transcript from

yesterday.

MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay.

Q. Yesterday you were asked: Is it unusual to

distribute retained earnings to a shareholder?

And you stated: No. In fact, when Atrium

existed -- when Atrium existed, they sent earnings to

shareholders as well.

Then your counsel went back and said: When

you say Atrium existed, you mean prior to the --

And you said: Oh, I'm sorry. Let me correct

that. When Atrium was a privately held company, they

did the same thing.

That was your testimony yesterday, correct?

A. Yeah. It was an error.

Q. Let's go to Exhibit 238 and let's scroll in

under Maquet Vascular Systems.

This is your CV, correct?

A. Yes. We reviewed this quite extensively

during my deposition.

Q. Okay. And I want to focus right here on your

description of Maquet Vascular Systems. You said it's

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formally Atrium Medical Corporation on your resume, did

you not?

A. Yeah, and we discussed this at length.

MR. ORENT: I have no further questions.

Thank you, your Honor.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. ORENT: Thank you.

MS. ARMSTRONG: Give me just a minute to get

organized and find the pages --

THE COURT: That's fine.

MS. ARMSTRONG: -- in the consent decree that

he was referring to.

MR. ORENT: Your Honor, if I may, just one

housekeeping item.

Formally move in Exhibits 239 through 242 and

237 and 238 and 243.

THE COURT: Okay. I don't know what those

exhibits are, but do defendants have any objection to

them?

MR. CHABOT: Your Honor, provided we have the

opportunity to address them on the exhibit list so that

they can be subject to the stipulation that Attorney

Orent read at the beginning of the hearing --

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. CHABOT: -- I think that would be fine.

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THE COURT: All right.

MR. ORENT: Thank you, your Honor.

THE COURT: So with that qualification, they

are full exhibits. 239, 242 --

MR. GLASSER: Do you want to read those to her

again, Jon?

MR. ORENT: Yes.

THE COURT: -- as well as 237, 238 and 243.

MR. ORENT: Correct. 239 through 42, 237,

238, and 243.

THE COURT: 237 to 243.

(Plaintiffs' Exhibits No. 237-243 admitted.)

MR. CHABOT: Counsel, if you'll provide an

exhibit list so that we can make any objections and

we'll have them --

MS. ARMSTRONG: Your Honor, I just -- Mr. --

Mr. Orent was going through the consent decree pretty

fast. Can I just get him to point me to the pages,

actual pages, in the paper copy that he was reading

from?

THE COURT: Absolutely.

MS. ARMSTRONG: Just show me. I was reading

on the screen.

MR. ORENT: It's starting on 5 and then 6.

MS. ARMSTRONG: Thank you.

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MR. ORENT: You're welcome.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MS. ARMSTRONG:

Q. Good morning, Mr. Carlton.

A. Good morning, Ms. Armstrong.

Q. Do you remember Mr. Orent just now asking you

some questions about pelvic mesh litigation?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. And he threw out some very, very big numbers

that have been in the news, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Was Atrium's products, surgical mesh products,

were they ever marketed for pelvic use?

A. No, they were not.

Q. Is that a very different use than hernia --

than use in hernia surgery?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. Is it one of the indications for your surgical

mesh products?

A. No, it is not.

Q. Do you -- do you know how many -- how many

pending litigations you have that involve the -- the use

of one of your surgical mesh products in a pelvic

application?

A. I don't know the exact number, but it's --

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it's less than probably two percent or one percent of

the total --

Q. Okay.

A. -- litigation, of the lawsuits that are out

there. Sorry.

Q. Do you have any idea -- I'll stop there.

You were also shown an email from Scott Waxler

in February of 2017. Do you recall that?

A. I recall seeing that here, yes.

Q. And who is he --

A. I had not seen it before.

Q. Who is he with?

A. He is with LockeBridge.

Q. And it was concerning the mesh litigation; it

was a question about the mesh litigation, correct?

A. There was a question on the mesh litigation,

yes.

Q. And it was -- I believe that the document was

dated February 2017. Do you recall that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Do you know when the C-Qur MDL was created?

A. It was just prior to that time, I believe.

Q. Okay. You were also shown a response to -- or

I think it was an interim response to the FDA regarding

your complaint review procedure and whether or not some

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should have been reported as MDRs, correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. Okay. You -- you told us yesterday about your

postmarket surveillance and you said it included review

of complaints, right?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you review complaints for postmarket

surveillance regardless of their status as MDRs or not?

A. Absolutely. We -- we had filed -- so -- so

within that particular item related to the -- the 483,

we had actually had all of those complaints. We looked

and the particular auditor had a different viewpoint on

filing and there is some differences, not only within

interpretation of the regulations, but different medical

device manufacturers will report things in different

ways.

Q. Okay. Have -- had you already included those

complaints -- whether reported as MDRs or not, have they

already been reported in your risk analysis for the

product?

A. Yes, they are also part of our complaint

system. They were part of things that we analyzed. It

was just not something that was submitted and filed with

the FDA.

Q. And -- and -- and did your risk analysis

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change because some then were reported to the FDA as

MDRs?

A. No, it's not -- when we do our analysis, it's

not related specifically to that MDR versus not MDR.

Q. And had you noticed anything unusual in

complaint reporting patterns that created any kind of

alert to you about concerns about your surgical mesh

products or specifically the C-Qur products?

A. No.

Q. Mr. Orent asked you if you were covered by

some of the group insurance plans. Do you recall that?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Is there a reason why an organization would

try to get coverage -- group insurance on the largest

scale possible?

A. Yeah, it -- it's less expensive typically.

Q. Would you explain again what your role is as

the managing director -- I think I'm -- I may be

misstating your title, so correct me if I'm wrong, but

would you explain your role again as the director of

Vascular Products?

A. You mean in my history?

Q. No, just describe what your responsibilities

are, please.

A. Oh, from -- as managing director of Vascular

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Systems. So I oversee the -- you know, the design,

development, production of not only the Atrium, but also

look to the -- from a marketing perspective and the

strategic side, the three- to five-year plan for all the

vascular products.

And I oversee La Ciotat, where those vascular

products are manufactured as well.

Q. And is it a product line responsibility or is

it -- is it primarily a product line responsibility or

is it a site responsibility?

A. So primarily it's a product line

responsibility overseeing those. I mean, I do have the

managing director of La Ciotat who reports in to me.

Q. Do they make any products other than vascular

products?

A. No, they do not.

Q. So you -- but you also -- vascular -- you said

also the vascular products were made by another entity,

right?

A. Cardiovascular LLC -- Maquet Cardiovascular

LLC down in Wayne, New Jersey, yes.

Q. Do they make -- do they make other products?

A. They make many other products, yes.

Q. Do you have any responsibility for them, other

than for the vascular products?

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A. No, I do not, and I do not oversee any of the

individuals there.

Q. So when Getinge AB undertook to indemnify you,

was that in part because of your role for this product

line?

A. Yes. It extended to multiple entities, yup.

Q. Can we pull up Exhibit 122 for a minute?

Maybe more than a minute, but let's pull up 122.

Are you familiar with this document?

A. I was not --

Q. Can we blow it up a little bit?

Are you familiar with this document?

A. I was not familiar with it prior to -- to this

litigation, no.

Q. Is Atrium Medical Corporation a party to this

agreement?

A. No, it is not.

Q. To your knowledge, does Atrium Medical

Corporation have any ability to enforce this agreement

or to go to Getinge AB and do anything with respect to

this agreement?

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A. No.

Q. Has Getinge AB ever agreed with Atrium AB that

it's going to indemnify you, Atrium AB, for the -- I

mean Getinge. Has Getinge AB ever agreed that it's

going to indemnify Atrium for these liabilities in this

litigation?

A. No.

Q. Mr. Orent asked you about the fact that your

employment agreement is with Getinge Group. That's not

technically a legal -- you don't disagree that it's not

a legal entity?

A. No, I don't disagree with that.

Q. You get a paycheck every -- periodically?

A. I have learned that agreements are much more

about trusting the person and interacting with a person

that you're involved with there for employment

agreements. So --

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Q. How often do you get a paycheck?

A. I get a paycheck, I believe, every two weeks.

Q. And who issues that paycheck?

A. Atrium Medical Corporation.

Q. And what is your understanding of who your

employer is?

A. Atrium Medical Corporation.

Q. Are there occasions -- you're pretty busy in

your work, aren't you?

A. I am, and being here for three days has taken

me away from a lot of that, yes.

Q. And all of your managing directors and your

direct reports are pretty busy, right?

A. Yes, they are.

Q. Is it -- is it not necessarily ideal, but is

it unusual where transactions get ahead of the

paperwork?

A. It -- it happens more frequently than I would

like. But, yes, it happens frequently, yeah.

Q. And when you do create a contract that

represents a transaction that's been going on for a

while --

A. Uh-huh.

Q. -- and that contract references an effective

date, what is the effective date?

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A. The effective date is when that contract

states.

Q. Or does it -- does the effective -- when the

activities predate the actual creation of the paper

contract, what does the effective date represent?

A. It is the date that those activities started.

Q. And when you sign it, do you sign it as of the

effective date or do you sign it on the date that you

actually sign it?

A. I always sign on the date that I am signing.

I never backdate.

Q. What is your understanding of what backdating

means?

A. Backdating is when you actually write down a

date of a prior date than the day that you're actually

signing something. And that is an extreme no-no in our

business.

Q. In any of the documents that you've seen while

you've been here these past three days, have you seen

any documents that were backdated?

A. No, they were not backdated. They took --

they were signed after the effective date.

Q. Can we put up Exhibit 174, please, Plaintiff's

Exhibit 174.

This was the email about the Basell resin; is

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that correct?

A. I was not shown this earlier portion, so I --

Q. Can we scroll to the part that the witness was

shown?

Jon, do you remember what page it was?

MR. ORENT: I believe it's page 4.

MS. ARMSTRONG: Page 4.

MR. ORENT: 4, I believe. It's the next page.

There it is.

Q. Okay. Is this what you were shown by

Mr. Orent?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. Has Atrium done its own testing to determine

the appropriate materials to use in its products?

A. Yes, just -- that is one of the key things

that we do when we're selecting suppliers, and we will

do our testing on the different materials that we

receive.

Q. And did Atrium satisfy itself that the resin

that it was using was the appropriate resin to be used?

A. Yes, we did.

Q. And that was done by Atrium or by Getinge AB?

A. That was done by Atrium.

Q. Okay. You can put this document away.

Is Atrium part of Acute Care Therapies?

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A. Atrium is, yeah, one of the businesses that

are within Acute Care Therapies.

Q. You explained that to us yesterday.

A. Yup.

Q. Does Acute Care Therapies have officers?

A. It -- it does. It has a president. It also

has a chief marketing officer, technology officer, and

chief operating officer.

Q. Are those officers -- Acute Care Therapies is

not a legal entity, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Are those officers employed by other legal

entities within the Getinge group of companies?

A. Yes, they are.

Q. Are they -- are those officers employed by

Getinge AB?

A. Not to my knowledge, no.

Q. The org charts that Mr. Orent showed you, are

those consistent with the fact that there's this layer

of Acute Care Therapies?

A. The org chart that he showed, no.

Q. Okay.

A. I mean -- wait.

Q. Did he show you org charts that showed other

people above Atrium on the org charts?

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A. Yes.

Q. Were they generally officers of Acute Care

Therapies?

A. He showed a couple of different charts.

The -- Jens is the -- he was an officer; Ajey was an

officer. The other individuals that they stated were

not officers of ACT, to my knowledge.

Q. Okay.

A. Yup.

Q. Okay. But does anything on the org charts

that he showed you change anything that you testified to

yesterday about who manages and directs the day-to-day

operations of the company?

A. Not at all.

Q. And, in fact, yesterday you explained -- would

you explain -- I think you told us about the reporting

structure for regulatory. Would you -- regulatory and

quality. Would you explain that again?

A. So we have a director of quality who reports

in to John Costello, who is the vice-president of

corporate compliance and -- sorry, corporate quality and

compliance.

And then you have a senior manager on-site who

reports up to the director of regulatory and -- the

director of regulatory in Maquet Cardiovascular LLC.

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Q. And tell us again when that structure came

into play?

A. So that structure came into place

essentially -- it was prior to my taking over as

president, but it occurred after the consent decree in

the roughly late 2015, early 2016 time frame.

Q. And -- and why is that structure created?

A. So part of it was as the consent decree, but

it also provided greater oversight.

Q. But in terms of the day-to-day operations that

you described managing -- reporting MDRs to the FDA,

preparing 510(k) applications to the FDA, how were those

managed by Atrium?

A. That's still managed internally locally at

Atrium.

Q. And is anything in the org charts that

Mr. Orent showed you today inconsistent with what you

testified to yesterday about the regulatory structure?

A. No, not at all.

Q. Can we put up 1 -- Plaintiff's Exhibit 184,

the consent decree.

This is the consent decree, correct?

A. Yes, it is, to my knowledge.

Q. Is Getinge AB a party to this consent decree?

A. Getinge AB, no, it is not.

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Q. There are -- there are four corporate

defendants, correct?

A. Yes, there are.

Q. So there's Atrium Medical Corporation, Maquet

Holding BV and Company KG, Maquet Cardiovascular LLC and

Maquet Cardiopulmonary AG; is that correct?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Can we turn to page 5, please, paragraph 5A.

Actually, paragraph -- let's look at paragraph 5.

It says: Except as provided in paragraphs 6

and 11, defendants and each and all of their directors,

officers, et cetera -- and it goes on to list some

responsibilities for defendants, correct?

A. Yes, it does.

Q. And Atrium was a defendant to this consent

decree, correct?

A. Yes, it was.

Q. And does Atrium have responsibilities pursuant

to this consent decree?

A. Yes, it very much does.

Q. Now, I think Mr. Orent suggested to you that

by use of the term defendants here, the FDA intended

that all of the defendants would be responsible for all

of these activities at all of the sites covered by the

consent decree. Is that consistent with your

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understanding?

A. I -- as I said to you earlier, I think Atrium

is a defendant and it's responsible for its entity.

Q. Well, for example, do you think the FDA

intended Atrium to be responsible for the design of

products in Rastatt, Germany?

A. No, it did not.

Q. Do you think that's what it intended by the

word defendants?

A. No, it did not.

Q. Do you think it intended Atrium to be

responsible for Atrium's activities?

A. Yes, it did.

Q. Did the Atrium -- did the FDA insist that

there be a -- because there were multiple sites

involved, did the FDA insist there be an individual or

individuals named in the complaint that would have

overall oversight responsibility?

A. Yes.

MR. ORENT: Objection, personal knowledge.

Q. Do you have personal knowledge of the consent

decree and how it's been implemented?

A. I do.

Q. Okay.

THE COURT: Okay. Overruled.

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A. I have -- would you like me to elaborate?

Q. So I just want -- no, you don't have to.

A. Okay.

Q. Did the -- the FDA insist that there be an

individual or individuals that have to have oversight

responsibility because there were multiple sites?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And were -- did those individual or

individuals delegate responsibility to you for the

Atrium sites?

A. Did they delegate to me for -- repeat that

question. I'm sorry.

Q. Okay. Did those individuals -- were you

delegated responsibility for the Atrium sites?

A. Yes.

Q. And was that consistent with the consent

decree?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. Was it consistent with the federal regulations

governing the medical device manufacturers?

A. Yes.

Q. And I think we saw yesterday that you were

named the managing director of the Atrium sites with

full executive authority.

A. Correct.

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Q. Can we pull up Exhibit 166. I'm sorry,

Exhibit 66. I apologize.

That's not it. The Exhibit 66 that was used

by Mr. Orcutt (sic) just now. It's Defendant's Exhibit

66.

What is this document?

A. This is the distributor agreement between

Atrium Medical, Maquet Cardiovascular LLC, and Getinge

USA Sales.

Q. Okay. Now, this has three entities in it,

correct?

A. Yes, it does.

Q. And you're familiar with this structure and

this distribution arrangement, correct?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. Now, if we substituted -- now, yesterday I was

asking you questions that were limited to 2014 through

2017, correct?

A. Uh-huh.

Q. If we substituted Getinge USA Sales for Maquet

Cardiovascular US -- USA Sales in that chart, would that

be the current structure?

A. That is, yes.

Q. And that's your understanding of how the

structure is?

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A. Yeah. And I -- as I stated, if an agreement

doesn't fully outline it, I know how the structure

actually works.

Q. Okay. And is it your understanding that prior

to Getinge USA Sales that point in the chart was

occupied by Maquet Cardiovascular USA Sales?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, you said you spoke to Gary Sufat about

that. Do you have a general understanding of how the

distribution works?

A. Yes, I know where my products go. I know the

bases and where we ship them, yes.

Q. As the president of the company, you have a

general understanding of this?

A. Yes.

Q. Why did you speak to Mr. Sufat?

A. I wanted to just get a greater understanding

of the -- the financial transactions going back and

forth. I -- I had the general overview and I wanted to

make sure that I was correct with -- with my statements.

Q. Are you aware that Mr. Sufat has given an

affidavit in this litigation?

A. I am aware, yes.

Q. Can we put up Mr. Sufat's affidavit?

And if we look at paragraph 9, please, it

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says: Since January 1, 2014, Atrium has transferred its

products to Maquet Cardiovascular LLC, a distribution

center, at standard cost. Maquet -- MCV LLC is an

indirect wholly owned subsidiary of Getinge AB.

Have I read that correctly?

A. Yes, you have.

Q. Is that consistent with your understanding?

A. That is my understanding, yes.

Q. Have you heard any testimony from a fact

witness in either the depositions that were played or

any other -- any fact witness testimony in this

litigation -- not Mr. Messina's, but any fact witness

testimony in this litigation that contradicts

Mr. Sufat's testimony?

A. No.

Q. And he would know?

A. Yes.

Q. Let's look at paragraph 10.

From January 1, 2014, through September 30th,

2017, MCV LLC then sold --

MR. ORENT: Your Honor, I'd like to object

that this is hearsay. This is an available witness.

THE COURT: I'm going to overrule --

MS. ARMSTRONG: It's redirect, your Honor. He

was crossed about this.

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Q. From January 1st, 2014, through September 30,

2017, MCV LLC then sold to Atrium products at a markup

to Maquet Cardiovascular US Sales LLC, MCV US Sales,

at -- a sales entity. MCV US Sales is an indirect

wholly owned subsidiary of Getinge AB.

Have I read that correctly?

A. Yes, you have.

Q. And are you aware of any facts that have been

presented in this -- in this hearing that contradict

this?

A. No, it's consistent with what I discussed

with -- with Gary, yes.

Q. And is it consistent with your general

understanding as the president of the company?

A. Yes.

Q. Paragraph 11: From October 1 through 2017,

MCV LLC then sold the Atrium products at a markup to

Getinge USA Sales LLC, a sales entity. Getinge USA

Sales LLC is an indirect wholly owned subsidiary of

Getinge AB.

Have I read that correctly?

A. Yes, you have.

Q. And, again, is that consistent your with

understanding as the president of the company?

A. Yes, it is.

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Q. And have you heard anything in the hearing so

far that contradicts Mr. Sufat's personal knowledge of

this?

A. No, nothing.

Q. And then in paragraph 12, it says: The

distribution center MCV LLC earns approximately half of

the margin and the sales entity MCV US Sales, now

Getinge USA Sales LLC instead of MCV US Sales, earns

approximately half the margin.

Have I read that correctly?

A. Yes, you have.

Q. And, again, is that consistent with your

general understanding as the president of the company?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. And have you heard anything that contradicts

that in this hearing?

A. No, I have not.

Q. And is it consistent with the chart you

presented the other day?

A. Yes, it is.

MS. ARMSTRONG: Your Honor, that's all I have.

THE COURT: All right. Excellent.

MR. ORENT: Can we have that for a moment?

MS. ARMSTRONG: The affidavit?

MR. ORENT: Yeah, the affidavit.

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MS. ARMSTRONG: Sure.

MR. ORENT: Okay.

THE COURT: Is Mr. Carlton free to leave?

RECROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. ORENT:

Q. Just on that one point, if we could zoom in on

that same paragraph there. I believe it was paragraph

15.

MR. GLASSER: 12.

MR. ORENT: 12. Sorry.

Q. Mr. Carlton, the distribution center, MCV LLC,

earns approximately half of the margin, right? That's

what that says, right? And the sales entity, MCV US

Sales, earns approximately half the margin.

That does not say that Atrium gets half the

margin, does it?

A. The distribution center earns half of the

margin and the sales entity earns approximately half the

margin.

Can I see the rest of the piece, because

that's --

Q. If you go down, number 14: Margin returned to

Atrium is reflected in the profit and loss statement.

A. Right. So -- so then the margin is returned

through Maquet.

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So if you read 13, 13 says: The margin earned

by the distribution center, MCV LLC, is returned to

Atrium on a monthly basis.

Q. You're aware of the profit and loss statements

in this case, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. How do you explain how the cost of goods sold

exceeds the sale price?

A. The -- the -- the transaction that is taking

place is that we are selling from Atrium to Maquet

Cardiovascular at what is known as standard cost

initially. So that standard cost has some fluctuations

and particularly in those years that we've looked at,

there have been extraordinary circumstances where our

costs at the -- what we estimated for the cost at the

beginning of the year versus the costs that have

occurred during the course of the year have been much

higher. And there were multiple reasons and I can go

into those for each year, if you'd like.

MR. ORENT: Thank you.

No further questions.

THE COURT: All right. Done with this witness

then?

MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Carlton, you are

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free to go.

(Witness excused.)

THE COURT: And you may call your next

witness.

MR. CHEFFO: Thank you.

THE COURT: Thank you.

THE WITNESS: I'm not sure what to do with

this.

THE COURT: I would hand that back to Counsel.

He has a couple of exhibits.

MS. ARMSTRONG: Your Honor, if I may approach,

I'll grab the exhibits.

MR. CHEFFO: We're going to call, your

Honor -- we're going to call Mr. Alex Fernandez, your

Honor, and just for the -- you may recall, Mr. Fernandez

and then Professor Orcutt and then I think that'll be

our witnesses.

THE COURT: So Mr. Fernandez will go first?

MR. CHEFFO: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: He is the gentlemen for whom there

is a sealed portion?

MR. CHEFFO: There is, and I -- we're going to

try to not seal it --

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. CHEFFO: -- but I --

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THE COURT: Excellent.

MR. CHEFFO: But thank you for being

considerate about that. We're trying to do it at a high

enough level that it doesn't really implicate these

issues.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. ORENT: Your Honor, at this point, a

housekeeping item.

As the parties have planned to do these

closing presentations this afternoon, Mr. Glasser's

going to be handling the final witnesses. I'd like to

be excused to prepare that argument.

THE COURT: That's fine.

Do you have any objection?

MR. CHEFFO: No, of course not, your Honor.

As much as I love Mr. Orcutt -- Orcutt -- Mr. Orent --

MR. ORENT: You know, everybody does that to

me.

MR. CHEFFO: -- I'm -- professor -- you're not

the professor yet.

My only question, while we're talking about

this, we have talked about it and obviously to the

extent that the Court would find closings helpful,

certainly we're happy to do that. And we also think

what might be helpful is some type of posthearing

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submission -- again, not a hundred pages, but, you know,

something within a reasonable period of time to tie some

of it together.

I -- I think we've both been -- both sides

have been very optimistic about -- you know, and there's

no fault; I've done it, too. I think I told them

yesterday I was going to be an hour and it took longer.

I think, you know, Mr. Orent thought it would be 45

minutes and obviously it took a little longer.

So I'm only raising this because by the time

we get through here, you know, I'm not sure I'm going

to -- maybe I'll finish, hopefully, by around

lunchtime --

THE COURT: We'll break at noon.

MR. CHEFFO: Right. So I'm not sure I'll be

done exactly then and then obviously they'll have some

questions and then we'll have, you know, Professor

Orcutt, you know.

So to the extent, obviously, we have time and

your Honor has the inclination to hear some -- you know,

some 20, 30 minutes of closings each, obviously we'd be

happy to do that, but in lieu of that, we certainly can

submit or even in addition to that.

So that all -- obviously whatever your Honor

thinks is best.

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THE COURT: Okay. We'll cross that bridge

when we get there this afternoon. And I'm happy to hear

arguments if counsel would like if we have time.

MR. CHEFFO: Great.

MR. ORENT: Thank you, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

THE CLERK: Mr. Fernandez, would you please

rise and raise your right hand.

ALEX FERNANDEZ, having been first duly sworn,

testified as follows:

THE CLERK: Thank you. Please state your full

name and spell your last name for the record.

THE WITNESS: Alex Fernandez,

F-e-r-n-a-n-d-e-z.

THE CLERK: Thank you very much. Please be

seated.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. CHEFFO:

Q. It's still morning, Mr. Fernandez. Good

morning.

A. Good morning.

Q. Were you asked to prepare a report in

connection with this litigation?

A. Yes, I was.

Q. And would you please tell the Court what --

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the general scope of what you were asked to do in terms

of what you were asked to address?

A. I was asked to address the solvency of the

company as well as the company's ability to meet its

operating needs and its obligations.

Q. And did you work with us and ask us to assist

you in preparing some slides that would assist and

facilitate your testimony here today?

A. I did.

Q. So one of those slides, in order to try and

move this along, we've prepared a summary of your

professional experience and education. Would you be

good enough to just explain for the Court and take the

Court through some of your experience and education.

A. Certainly. I have a bachelor's degree in

accounting from the University of Florida, minor studies

in economics.

I spent the first five years of my career with

Coopers & Lybrand, where I had the responsibilities of

performing multiple audits of multinational

corporations, including addressing their ability to

continue as a going concern in each and every case.

I then spent the next approximately five years

with Deloitte, where I ran -- I was a manager of their

litigation service group, which primarily focused on

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evaluations and due diligence work as well as

investigative audits and assessment of damages.

Subsequent to that, I started what is now AFC

Group. I'm the managing director. It's a specialized

firm that focuses on those services as I was performing

at Deloitte.

I'm a certified public accountant. Obviously

you need to be that in order to be able to opine on the

fair value of financial statements with these firms.

In addition to that, I'm also a certified

fraud examiner, which is a certain level of experience

and education and continuing education relating to the

identification of fraud.

And I'm a certified valuation analyst, which

focuses on the valuation of companies and allows you to

issue certified valuation reports on companies.

Q. All right. Are the types of issues, albeit a

narrow issue, that you've been asked to render an

opinion on here today consistent with your professional

training, your work experience, and your education?

A. Yes, they are.

Q. Is this the first time you've testified in

court?

A. No, it is not.

Q. Would you give us just a general overview of

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the types of cases that you've testified in and some of

the -- the clients, the government entities that you've

testified on behalf of?

A. Certainly. I've been retained by the federal

government, U.S. Government, U.S. Attorney's Office,

been retained by the SEC, FDIC, RTC. I was the expert

for the Committee of Commerce in the review of financial

institutions during the financial institution crisis.

I have been retained by foreign governments to

review complex financial transactions. I've been also

retained by multiple multinational companies in

performing either investigative audits, valuation work,

or doing assessment of damages in litigation.

Q. We don't need to run through all of them, but

is it fair to say that in addition to what we've talked

about, you've also been a member of several professional

associations and affiliations?

A. Yes, I have.

MR. CHEFFO: Your Honor, I'd move

Mr. Fernandez as an expert in solvency and accounting.

MR. GLASSER: No -- no objection.

THE COURT: All right. Motion granted.

MR. CHEFFO: Thank you, your Honor.

Q. You are being compensated for your time?

A. Yes, I am.

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Q. And what is your hourly rate?

A. It's 475 an hour.

Q. And prior to your work in this case, have you

ever done work for Atrium Medical?

A. No, I have not.

Q. Have you ever worked with me before?

A. No, I have not.

Q. Have you ever worked with Getinge AB?

A. No, sir.

Q. Any Getinge-related company or entity?

A. No, sir.

Q. And am I correct you have no financial

interest or affiliation with any of the Getinge group of

companies?

A. That is correct.

Q. Now, before we get into the details, would you

provide just a brief summary of your opinion in this

case?

A. I have concluded that as of December 31, 2017,

that Atrium was, in fact, solvent. It had adequate

capital, it had sufficient liquidity to meet its

operating needs and its obligations. That held true for

2015 and 2016 as well.

Q. Now, let's talk a little bit about some basic

accounting principles that are, you know, commonplace to

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you, but may not be commonplace to many of us who are

not CPAs.

But what are the types of general accounting

principles that are used by businesses? What are they

called?

A. Clearly in the United States we're obligated

to report under general accepted accounting principles

that provides uniformity in the way companies report and

classify assets in their financial statements.

Internationally, they use the -- very

comparable rules, a set of rules that are referred to as

International Financial Reporting Standards.

There's a lot of overlap where they are

similar, if not identical, but there are some distinct

differences as well.

Q. And is one of the -- one of the goals of these

rules to try and have some uniformity about how -- how

financials are recorded and interpreted?

A. Certainly. You know, if not, you would have

the wild west out there in how people report revenues,

report expenses, you know, how they treat their balance

sheet and income statements. So it -- it provides a

standardized methodology and a process from which to

report.

Q. Is it fair to say you're very familiar with

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these rules?

A. Yes, I am.

Q. And they're essentially your stock-in-trade;

they're the way you have been operating when you've been

an accountant?

A. Certainly. As a CPA, when you issue an

opinion, you're basically attesting to the fact that the

financial statements are presented fairly in conformity

with either domestic standards or international

standards.

Q. Now, Getinge AB, you know, is a foreign

company, a Swedish company, correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. What -- what are the standards that govern

Getinge?

A. They're required to report under international

financial reporting standards.

Q. And for your benefit and the Court's benefit,

I may not say Getinge AB all the time, but that's what

I'm going to be referring to when I say Getinge. Okay,

Mr. Fernandez?

A. That's okay.

Q. Now, what types of accounting standards apply,

if any, to Atrium?

A. Well, Atrium does not issue a separate

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financial statement, so they're not obligated to report

under either GAAP or International Standards. Their

reports are prepared for internal consumption, to assist

management in the running of the company as well as to

assist the shareholders, owners of the company, in

gauging the performance of the company.

Q. So is that -- would it be different if they

were a listed company on NASDAQ or the Stock Exchange?

A. Well, they can maintain their statements for

internal purposes the way they do, but once they issue a

formal report, it would be presented in accordance with

those standards.

Q. And because they're not, they don't have to

follow those, the GAAP standards?

A. That's correct.

Q. Now, what is a consolidated financial

statement?

A. Again, if you have a parent company with

multiple subsidiaries, they are, in fact, required to

consolidate those subsidiaries into one financial

statement, one income statement, one balance sheet, one

cash flow statement, one set of footnote disclosures.

Q. So the IFRS, which -- by which -- which binds

Getinge AB, requires Getinge AB to compile consolidated

financials; is that right?

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A. That's correct. Any wholly owned subsidiary

or subsidiary where they have a -- control is defined by

the regulations would need to be consolidated and rolled

into their financials.

Q. But you know, and we've seen throughout the

last few days and more so in the discovery, that Atrium

does maintain financial records, correct?

A. They certainly do.

Q. And why do they do that?

A. As a separate entity, they need to be able to

measure -- first of all, they need to have the tools to

be able to manage the company. Financial statements

provide that tool to the managers. The owners of the

company need to have a way to measure their performance.

So it's necessary from multiple standpoints.

Q. Now, do -- because Atrium doesn't -- is not

required to follow GAAP and uses its -- its financials

for internal purposes, does that mean that they're

somewhat inaccurate or improper or -- or somehow not

useful?

A. Not at all.

Q. And in connection with your work and your

evaluation and your deep dive into some of these

financial issues, have you found any issues that lead

you to believe that the Atrium financial statements are

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not reliable or inaccurate?

A. No, I have not.

Q. And that's not a basis of your testimony here

today, is it?

A. I'm sorry?

Q. That -- that -- that's not part of your

opinion or your testimony today, correct?

A. While I did not perform an independent audit

of the statements, I have no reason to believe that the

numbers were not fairly presented. I perhaps took

issues with a couple of classifications just for

purposes of determining solvency, but that's more of a

tool than it is a result of the way they managed their

internal records.

Q. In determining solvency -- and we'll talk a

little bit about this later, but in determining

solvency, you -- you found it was important to apply the

GAAP standards, correct?

A. There's -- there's certain measurements --

there are certain measurements --

MR. GLASSER: Now that we're getting into the

opinion, I'd object to leading, like to the exact

opinion.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. CHEFFO: I'll try and do better, your

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Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.

Q. In connection with your -- your -- your

analysis and your opinion with respect to solvency, how,

if at all, did GAAP come into play?

A. Well, to the extent that, you know, 30

years -- 38 years of applying and analyzing financial

statements, I'm used to seeing them represented in

accordance with GAAP. I usually try to get them to that

same standard in order to be able to properly analyze

them.

But more specifically, when you're looking at

specific items such as gross profits and gross margins

and current ratios, you want to make sure that you're

considering the right accounts for those measurements

tools.

Q. Okay. Now, Getinge AB's financial statements

are audited, correct?

A. Yes, they are.

Q. Do you know who audits them?

A. I believe PricewaterhouseCoopers is their

auditors.

Q. A large, very prominent organization, right?

A. One of the final fours.

Q. And are Atrium's financial statements audited,

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to the extent that you know?

A. Well, they would be subjected to the same

procedures as the parent company. They're not audited

on a separate company basis, but they are subjected to

audit procedures based on the parent company's audit.

Q. Okay. Thank you.

Now, as a general matter, what is solvency?

A. In the most general way to look at it,

solvency is when you have assets in excess of

liabilities. That's generally the first thing that you

look at.

However, you also want to go beyond that and

look at the company's ability to meet its current

operating needs as far as do they have sufficient

liquidity to meet those operating needs and that they

can meet their financial obligations as well. And

normally we use the term foreseeable period, but that's

usually defined as within the next 12 months.

Q. Okay. And what is adequate capitalization?

A. Again, it goes part and parcel with the

entity's ability to meet its operating needs; does the

entity has sufficient capital to meet its operating

needs and its obligations.

Q. And when you are undertaking the task or the

assignment of evaluating a company's solvency, how do

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you go about doing that?

A. You start off by going and doing an analytical

review of the financial statements, look at the income

statement, analyze the income statement, try to identify

what the key metrics are, whether the company is a net

contributor to capital in each and every year or whether

they're actually drawing on capital as a result of

operating losses. If there are operating losses to be

considered, you want to find out why they're losing

money; is this a recurring issue, is this a nonrecurring

issue.

So you want to be able to do a -- a very close

look at the income statement as well as the balance

sheet, which will tell you the assets that are available

that may be convertible into cash, the liabilities that

are going to become due over the next 12 months, does

the company have the ability to meet those obligations.

Q. Okay. And we'll talk a little more about it,

but in addition to looking at -- at the documents, the

balance sheet, the income statement, did you also -- in

connection with your assignment in this case, did you

speak with anyone? Did you look at any other materials?

A. Well, certainly. It's not enough to read the

statements. You have to have an understanding of how

the different accounts are presented, what's captured

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within the individual accounts, what is the substance of

that account, and how would you consider that in a

solvency analysis.

So I did have interviews with both the tax

director and the CFO of the company. In a

multinational, you have all the transfer pricing issues,

which are primarily tax-related issues or regulated by

the tax bodies, I should say. So you have to have an

understanding of how that -- how those transfer pricing

adjustments are being recorded and are they, in fact, a

fair value as required by the taxing authorities, are

they in compliance with the various authorities, whether

it's European authorities, UK authorities, U.S.

authorities.

Q. Particularly with a company that's a

subsidiary that is not required to follow the GAAP

rules, that's not audited, is there anything untoward or

improper or nefarious about actually talking to the CFO,

the head of tax, and the CEO in order to just understand

how the business operates and how the policies and

procedures are being implemented?

A. I don't see how you can do that without those

discussions.

Q. And do you believe that the information that

you were provided and that you reviewed was sufficient

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to enable you to assess Atrium's solvency and

capitalization through December 31st, 2017?

A. Certainly.

Q. And would you give the Court just a general

overview or as much as you need to to explain what steps

you took in order to determine whether the company was

solvent up to December 31st, 2017.

A. I started by analyzing the income statement.

I was trying to make two basic determinations from

reviewing the income statement; does the company

generate a profit from the sale of the units that it is

manufacturing, a gross profit, and does the company

generate an operating -- operating income or an

operating loss from the total results from operation.

If the company is reflecting a loss or

reflecting a negative number in any of those categories,

then you want to make sure you understand why it is

reflecting that negative number and that's where the

inquiries and the consultations are important.

Q. And that's what you were talking about

earlier. To the extent that you have a question about

either a positive or a negative number that may need

some explanation, that's when you would talk to some of

the professionals?

A. Each one of those observations may require you

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to dig deeper. You know, you don't necessarily accept

it at face value. You want to know why.

So, for example, if a company is reflecting a

negative gross profit number, you want to understand

why. If the company's losing money every time it sells

a product, the more they sell, the more they're going to

lose, that's obviously a critical concern in a solvency

analysis.

If the company's net result, its net income,

is a negative number, obviously you want to make sure

that the company has sufficient capital to absorb those

losses for a foreseeable period or until the point that

they can actually turn that around.

Q. And, similarly, you don't -- am I correct you

don't take at face value something that somebody tells

you from the company if it's inconsistent with your

professional experience or documentary evidence, right?

A. Well, certainly. I mean, you go in there with

your understanding of how it's supposed to be done, how

the companies typically do it, and that's the way you

pursue your discussions.

Q. Now, you indicated that you reviewed Atrium's

income statements for 2015 to 2017, right?

A. That's correct.

Q. And would you just explain for us what an

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income statement is?

A. The income statement in this case is capturing

all the transactional data of the company for the prior

12 months, so from December -- the 12 months prior to

December 31, 2017, 2016, and 2015. It ends up being a

scorecard of how it performed that year. It reflects

the revenues that they realized, the expenses that they

incurred, and any unusual or nonrecurring items that

should be further considered.

Q. And how is -- what can you determine from an

income statement and how is it a component in connection

with a solvency analysis?

A. Well, again, that's -- part of your task is to

determine whether the company has the ability to meet

its current operating needs. So, therefore, you want to

know whether their performance is indicating a drawdown

of capital or an augmentation of capital. And then when

you look at the balance sheet, you make the

determination whether that capital is there for it.

So you look at each and every year

historically to try to understand what to expect over

the next 12 months.

Q. Now, this is -- and I apologize to you and to

the Court. These are, admittedly, some small numbers,

but we tried to call out the areas that I think we'll be

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focusing on.

Do you recognize this document?

A. Yes. These are the internal statements that

are produced by Atrium.

Q. Okay. And this is a document that you

reviewed, correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. Now, in your report, you prepared something as

Exhibit A.

So -- before we do that, so the -- the -- your

Honor, this isn't that much better, but it -- I don't --

you know, I'm not going to go into great detail. If

you'd like a copy at any time, obviously just let me

know.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. CHEFFO: All right. Thank you.

Q. So this starts '15 -- I think we'll see this

just from a format purpose. I was a little confused

initially, right, sometimes when we're used to seeing

things left to right, but this is '15, '16, '17 starts

on the right, right?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay. Now, I want to take a minute just to

have you explain what this is and why you went about

creating Exhibit A to your report.

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A. Well, primarily when you're dealing with a

multinational company that has transactions with an

affiliated company, you have transfer pricing rules

that -- that they are obligated to follow in accordance

to the tax instructions and according --

Q. Let's just stop there.

A. -- to the regulatory bodies.

Q. Just briefly, when you transfer pricing, just

tell us what that generally means.

A. If two companies that are part of a group or

two affiliates have companies within each other, the

rules require those transactions at the end of the day

be reflected at fair value. Those rules are critical

because without that a company can manipulate its

earnings and allocate earnings.

Many of the taxing authorities realized that

this was a common tool being done about 10, 15 years

ago, where multinationals would allocate costs to the

high-taxing districts and revenues to the low-taxing

districts so they can maximize or pay the least amount

of taxes possible.

Transfer pricing rules basically came back and

said, no, you have to be able to demonstrate to the

authorities that those transactions are being valued at

fair value. And you -- that obligation is the entity's

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obligation, the reporting company's obligation.

So companies would generally have studies

done, generally have agreements, generally have, you

know, the -- the documentation to suffice their

allocation of revenues and costs at a fair value to the

taxing authorities and to the regulatory authorities.

Q. Okay. And let's just be clear about what it

is Exhibit A is and what it is not.

So did you do this to manipulate any of the

numbers or the -- the values in -- in the statements?

A. No, this -- this was simply done to recast

the two line items that pick up the part of the sales

revenues that are not reflected in the internal and

external sales categories.

So to properly reflect a hundred percent of

the revenues derived from the sale of the product, we

needed to reclassify or to group the transfer pricing

adjustments in with the sales.

Q. So all the numbers are the same, right?

A. The numbers are exactly the same. The net

results for the company, as you can see, the $527,000

loss in 2017, was, in fact, what they reflected on their

internal. All this is is basically recharacterizing or

grouping all the revenue items for the sale of the

product within one group so they can properly be

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measured against the cost of goods sold.

Q. And you did that so that they would be in

accordance with what you understand the GAAP regulations

to be?

A. Yeah. GAAP basically requires all your

revenues to be reflected together if they're derived

from the sale of the same product in the same process.

Q. So it's all the same numbers, you only focused

on two areas that you believed needed to be -- I think

you said reclassified in order to make them consistent

with the GAAP rules; is that what you did?

A. Without -- without going through that process,

on first blush it would appear that the company's

actually losing money from the sale of the units. And

that's because the company is initially recording the

sale at a standard costing process from the originating

entity, Atrium, to the distribution center. That does

not reflect the total revenues that the company

benefitted from. That revenue isn't realized until the

sale is completed at the sales affiliate and then

transferred back to Atrium through these two accounts

through the transfer pricing adjustments.

MR. CHEFFO: Okay. May I just approach the --

that board there for a minute? I'm going to go a little

bit off script.

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Q. I don't know if you can even see it from

back there, but just while we're on this topic, am I

generally understanding -- you heard earlier that there

was an initial transfer of funds at this stage, correct,

when -- when basically the -- the company sent it to the

distribution center, correct?

A. The first step is Atrium sends the product to

the distribution center. At that point, Atrium is

recording a profit at standard cost. So it's only

recording a portion of the revenues that are being

derived from the sale of that profit.

Q. So -- so -- so it wouldn't be accurate to just

only look at this amount of money that the company

received, right, because ultimately we saw the chain.

Once it's actually sold to the customers, there's

additional funds that get transferred up through the

chain back to the company, correct?

A. Certainly. The -- the final sales price to

the end user is not determined until the sale is closed

by the sales entity. So that would be your -- your

third circle down. At that point, then there's a

true-up, which is basically the -- a determination of

here's how much money we made on the sale of the product

and we're going to allocate those profits based on their

internal agreements, which I believe is approximately 50

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percent.

Q. Right. So if we were to just look at this

transaction and say -- and pretend like this didn't

exist, right, it would look like the company's getting a

lot less than it ultimately is, correct?

A. Certainly. It doesn't include the full sales

that's being realized by Atrium.

Q. So what you tried to do was to basically

capture the reality of the situation, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And basically not just look at the amount of

money that comes at this stage, but figure out exactly

the real real-life impact, which is when there's a sale,

they actually get 50 percent -- approximately 50 percent

of the profits, correct?

A. So they're actually deriving revenues at two

different stages; the first stage on transfer, the final

on the -- on the sale to the end user.

MR. GLASSER: I object to the leading. I

think the witness should be asked a -- some questions

that he can answer.

THE COURT: Okay. Overruled.

Go ahead.

Q. Now -- excuse me, your Honor. I think I just

covered some of my outline, so I'm just going to skip

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through it.

So let's -- let me just ask you, what is --

what does this slide represent?

A. It highlights the two accounts that are

reflected within the income statement of Atrium that are

part of the sales proceeds that are being derived by

Atrium. So I'm basically including them at the top part

of the statement so that I can properly analyze the

gross profit from the sale of the units.

Q. So when it says above the line and below the

line, can you just explain what that means?

A. Well, above the -- the line basically is, you

know, what is the gross profit that the company's making

from the sale of each individual unit. So, therefore,

we have to consider not only the standard cost in the

first stage of revenues that they realize, but also the

final sale proceeds that they share or they benefit

from.

So what this does is it allows me to consider

the full revenues that are being realized by the company

and comparing it to the cost to manufacture those

products and conclude that they are, in fact, being

manufactured and sold at a profit.

Q. So -- and that's just what we talked about,

right, in the sense of how the transaction actually

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works?

A. That's correct.

Q. And --

A. This is the mechanics of that chart, I guess.

Q. And that's -- am I correct that that's all you

did in terms of using the same numbers and you just

focused on that aspect of the balance sheet and then

created Exhibit A?

A. Yeah, it would be inconsistent with generally

accepted standards to analyze gross profit without

analyzing all the revenues derived from the sale of the

product.

Q. And because -- by virtue of the fact that you

looked at these in the way that you did and created

Exhibit A, does that mean that Atrium's books are

unreliable or inaccurate or somehow should be

disregarded?

A. No, I didn't change any of the numbers. I

mean, these are their numbers. Management is well aware

of what items need to be included when analyzing gross

profit. I -- I had detailed discussions with their CFO

regarding this and he said, of course you have to

include those line items in order to analyze gross

profit.

So, no, it's -- it's just easier for me to

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reflect that calculation after I make these two

adjustments rather than doing a separate, set-aside

calculation.

Q. And you were asked to perform a solvency

analysis, correct?

A. Correct. I mean, gross profit from the sale

of your product is an important metric to look at in a

solvency analysis.

Q. And the -- the way the books and records and

financial information that's maintained by the company,

that has many purposes, right?

A. That's correct.

Q. Now, for solvency analysis, are we concerned

with gross profit?

A. Certainly.

Q. Would you please tell us why?

A. If a company can't make money, if a company

can't cover its costs to manufacture a product from the

sales price that it derives from it, then you've got an

issue. So you've got to -- you know, you've got to do a

lot more digging and understanding to find out how it is

that they're going to overcome that significant problem.

I mean, you could sell a product at a loss for a

short-term period of time, but you cannot indefinitely

sell a product at a loss.

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Q. You had an opportunity to hear Mr. Messina

testify yesterday?

A. I did.

Q. And you've read his reports?

A. I have.

Q. How does what you've done differ from what

Mr. Messina did with respect to these issues and would

you explain for the Court why you think, if you think,

that his view was -- was not the right way to look at

this?

A. He ignores the transfer pricing adjustments

that are reflected in green on this schedule. So he

ignores a significant portion of the revenues derived

from the sale of the product to conclude that the

company is, in fact, losing money on the sale of each

and every product. It's just an incomplete assessment.

Q. Now, were you able to identify any

nonrecurring extraordinary expenses from your review of

the income statement?

A. I was.

Q. And why don't you just tell us, what are

nonrecurring extraordinary expenses?

A. Well, again, you're analyzing the income

statement for purposes of trying to figure out whether

the company's going to be using capital over the next 12

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months or contributing capital. If there are items that

are nonrecurring, then you can exclude that from your

analysis just when you're thinking about are they likely

to need capital or lose capital.

If a company is reflecting a net loss, but

that net loss is the result of a nonrecurring

extraordinary item, you have to consider that in your

cash flow demands.

Q. So just as an example, that might be, you

know, storm damage, correct, or litigation that's a

one-time deal; is that the type of thing --

A. As long as it's determined that it is a

one-time deal and not a recurring event.

Q. Now, based on your analysis, your discussions,

your experience, your looking at all the information,

your analysis of the transfer pricing issues, taking

into account Mr. Messina's views and opinions, what

opinion did you form from conducting your review of all

of that?

A. Well, we would have to continue to go beyond

the income statement. The income statement showed me

that the company did have a drawdown in capital for the

three years that I analyzed, but that a large portion of

that drawdown in capital resulted from nonrecurring

events. But, still, if you anticipate a drawdown in

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capital, if there's sufficient resources that are

reflected on the balance sheet to absorb that drawdown.

So the next step would be then to analyze what

are the sources of capital, the sources of cash and

liquidity available to the company as of that

measurement date, December 31, 2017.

Q. Okay. And could you just tell us what a

balance sheet typically is and what this represents,

slide 12, which is Plaintiff's Exhibit 31?

A. I mean, these are the real accounts as opposed

to the nominal accounts as of a specific point in time.

So we are measuring the accounts of the company as of

December 31, 2015, '16, and '17. It tells us what

assets are convertible to cash within the next 12

months, what liabilities are likely to be paid or

obligated to be paid within the next 12 months. It'll

alert you to any deficiency in that calculation and to

see whether there are other sources of -- of assets that

can be converted into current assets or liabilities that

are convertible into long-term liability that will

assist you in meeting your current obligations.

And it also tells you what the net worth or

the capital position of the capital -- of the company is

at a specific point in time.

Q. Okay. Now, let's look at this next slide.

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This is Atrium's internal balance sheet, correct?

A. That's correct.

Q. And how, if at all, did these balance sheets

or this balance sheet factor into your analysis?

A. Well, the first thing it tells you is if you

go to the total equity number as of December 31, 2017,

the company had in assets in excess of

liabilities.

Q. Can I just stop you for a minute?

A. Certainly.

MR. CHEFFO: I had a little trouble. I just

want the Court to -- just to orient your Honor that --

so we're pulling out, obviously, a section from this,

which is line 21-10.

Q. I'm sorry, Mr. Fernandez. Please go ahead.

A. Okay. So this roughly -- the total equity

line item represents the net assets of the company over

its liabilities. So the company has assets

on a historical basis in excess of the total liabilities

that are reflected in the company's books and records.

So that is an early, quick look that you --

that you want to get comfortable with; what is the

capital position, the net worth of the company, the

equity of the company, at these various measurement

dates.

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Q. Even from a lay --

A. It's a starting point, though, not a finishing

point.

Q. Understood. But even from a layperson's

perspective, this is basically saying they have more

assets than liabilities, right?

A. Right. Which, you know, is, in the simplest

form, solvency.

Q. Now --

THE COURT: Attorney Cheffo, we're going to

take --

MR. CHEFFO: Oh.

THE COURT: -- our lunch break. Is that --

MR. CHEFFO: No, that's perfect, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Good. We'll be back

then around one o'clock.

MR. CHEFFO: Thank you.

(Lunch recess taken at 12:00 p.m.)

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C E R T I F I C A T E

I, Liza W. Dubois, do hereby certify that

the foregoing transcript is a true and accurate

transcription of the within proceedings, to the best of

my knowledge, skill, ability and belief.

Submitted: 9/27/19 /s/ Liza W. Dubois LIZA W. DUBOIS, RMR, CRR

I certify that the foregoing is a true and correct copy of the transcript originally filed with the Clerk of Court on September 27, 2019, and incorporating redactions of personal identifiers requested by the Honorable Landya B. McCafferty in accordance with Judicial Conference policy. Redacted characters appear as a black box in the original transcript and blank lines in the copies.

Dated: 10/28/19 /s/ Liza W. Dubois LIZA W. DUBOIS, LCR, CRR