Talk:Andjar Asmara From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Andjar Asmara is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia

community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on October 20, 2012.

Article milestones

Date Process Result

September 2, 2012 Good article nominee Listed

September 20, 2012 Featured article candidate Promoted

[show]A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 15, 2012.

Current status: Featured article

Biography portal

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a

collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles

about people. All interested editors are invited to join the

project andcontribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use

this banner, please refer to thedocumentation.

FA This article has been rated as FA-Class on the project's quality scale.

This article is supported by WikiProject Actors and

Filmmakers (marked as Low-importance).

Indonesia portal

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indonesia, a

collaborative effort to improve the coverage

of Indonesia and Indonesia-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would

like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

the discussion and see a list of open tasks.

FA This article has been rated as FA-Class on the project's quality scale.

Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the

project's importance scale.

Contents

[hide]

1 GA Review

2 Informal review

o 2.1 Follow-up

3 Indonesian names

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox

Peer review

Dup detector

Disambig links

External links

This review is transcluded from Talk:Andjar Asmara/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TBrandley (talk contribs) 17:04, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Early life and theatre: "he is recorded as establishing the magazine Doenia Film". Huh? Reads funny.

Changed.

Early life and theatre: Link India

Not done, per WP:OVERLINKING, specifically "Avoid linking the names of major geographic features and locations,"

Legacy: "dramas" could please you clarify?

Dramas --> stage plays

References: Use actual sub-sections for Footnotes and Bibliography, as per MOS:ACCESS

Got that already

Great stuff; perhaps even FA worthy. I'll put this on hold for now, for

the minors to be addressed. TBrandley 01:20, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Wow, that was quick. Alright, looks good now. Pass. Well

done! TBrandley 01:26, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Might as well finish it before work, hehe. Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:31, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Informal review[edit]

This is looking pretty good, but I think it needs a little more work before FAC. Reading this as someone who has no knowledge of Indonesia, film, theatre, or any combination of these, I feel after reading this that I am not quite in full possession of the facts. There are little hints here and there that a bigger story is taking place, but we are left in the dark. Given that details on his life seem to be few (I'm assuming that you have exhausted the sources), maybe fill in more of the background. Many readers (like me) will have little or no idea about the big picture at this time. He was one of the first Indonesian directors. Why had there been none before, assuming that films were being

made? There are some hints that films were almost exclusively commercial rather than artistic in conception. Again, why, and what was said about this. This would draw out more why he was significant. I'm assuming that the JIF was a big deal, but this does not come across except in the legacy section says that the company flourished. And there is an impression throughout the article of his career chopping and changing quite a lot from journalist to critic to writer. This may be a reflection on the sources, but each of these seems a little under-developed, and I get little sense of what he achieved in each of them, or why he changed careers. But that may be unavoidable. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:22, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

I've copy-edited a little, but feel free to revert anything I've messed up or which you are not happy with. Some more specific points and questions:

Lead

The lead is a little forced, like it is trying to cram the information in quickly.

I think it needs a little expansion, as his significance does not really come across and it is a bit abrupt.

"with the theatre in Padang": With a specific theatre, or the generic medium of theatre?

"although he was mainly at the whim of the film production house backing him.": This is a little cryptic.

I'll save this for later.

Perhaps this new lede is better?

Early life and theatre

"Initially interested in the circus, he gravitated toward traditional theatre at a young age following visits from the Wayang Kassim and Juliana Opera troupes.": I'm not sure this works, as the circus thing just hangs. Is it implying that this steered him towards the theatre? Or that he first wanted to join the circus, then changed route? Or just that he liked the circus when he was a boy?

Circus removed as it doesn't seem to have had much of an influence in his later works.

"from the Wayang Kassim and Juliana Opera troupes": Any links for these, otherwise they are just names.

Nothing as of yet (probably not notable)

"He and his friends would pretend to act in stage plays that they had seen": Does not seem particularly important, and breaks the flow slightly.

Added because it shows the extent of his interest

"before moving to Batavia (modern day Jakarta) to work as a reporter": Did he move to work as a reporter, or move and then become a reporter?

Fixed

"the daily Sinar Soematera": I'm assuming this is a newspaper, but it may be worth making it explicit if there is no link.

Linked

"Padangsche Opera": Again, is there a link? I think we need to know at least what kind of level this was. Was it a big deal, or something quite minor?

Doesn't seem to have been that big, and I can't find anything further on it other than it was headed by Amiruddin, another person without an article.

"a Malay adaptation of the Dutch-language magazine Filmland": A little vague; does this mean it used the same concept/format, or that is was a straight translation?

Clarified

"At the time, the country's cinema was becoming established, and Andjar wrote extensively on local productions": Cinema is left hanging here. Are we contrasting the success of cinema with Andjar persevering with theatre? If so, this should be made explicit, or the cinema

comment just seems out of place. Or is it that he worked in local film productions? Again, this should be made explicit; the last we heard, he was working in theatre. Also, "wrote on" does not quite sound right to me. Either "worked on" or "wrote for" would be better.

Clarified

"the country's cinema": I think it is better to just name the country here.

Changed to "the cinema of the Indies"

"The Indonesian film historian credits Andjar": Who is the film historian?

Dur. Done.

"The Indonesian film historian credits Andjar as inspiring the marketing for 1929's Njai Dasima, which emphasised that the cast was exclusively native.": Why is this important? Did this make the film successful? And it may be better written as "According

to the Indonesian film historian X, Andjar was responsible for the [successful? highly successful? unusual?] marketing of the 1929 film Njai Dasima, which emphasised that the cast was exclusively native [or "which emphasised the exclusively native cast", but I think this loses something]"

Added some context in a footnote.

"He was also highly critical of The Teng Chun's Boenga Roos dari Tjikembang (The Rose from Tjikembang; 1931), among the first talkies in country.": Who is "he": the historian or Andjar? And

maybe "sound film rather than "talkies". Or at least pipe it to sound film.

Changed

"During this period he spent some time in Medan": Why? Doing what?

Not in any of the sources, trimmed

"under A. Piedro": Who? Again, link or expl

ain, or this could just be anyone. And "under" in what sense? Was Piedro a producer, direct

or, writer, etc? Joined in what sense? As an actor, writer, etc?

Clarified

"he reportedly con

sidered the troupe dedicated to the betterment of the

toneel as an art form and not only motivated by fina

ncial interests": This is a bit of a handful. "Reported

ly" is often weak; who reported it? Otherwise, he either

did or didn't. Maybe better as "Andjar believed the t

roupe to be dedicated to improving the "toneel" as an

art form, rather than motivated solely by financial i

nterests"

Clarified

"Andhar was able to extensively publish h

is stage plays": Just to check; these were already writ

ten, but he was able to publish them with the troupe's

help? I've done a copy-edit using this interpretation

, so please check!

Yep

Film career and death

"[Bollero] i

s recorded as having become more politicised after An

djar's departure": Again, why "recorded". It either did

or didn't, and if it is in dispute, who "recorded" it? A

nd "is recorded as having become" is very heavy going

; simply "became" works better.

Done

"The Teng Chun": Link?

Linked above, next to Boenga Roos dari Tjikembang

"Andjar was one of several noted theatrical personn

el who migrated to film following Albert Balink's 193

7 hit Terang Boelan (Full Moon), which was written by

a journalist named Saeroen.": Maybe detail that should

n't concern us here. Probably better to stop after Moo

n. Or maybe recast the sentence as "At the time, severa

l noted theatrical personnel migrated to film followi

ng"

Agree, nuked last bit.

"spoke to him and learned about the craft": Wh

at craft? Film or theatre? Their future careers suggest

the former, but worth making it clear. Also, perhaps "d

iscussed the [film-making?] craft with him", unless he

was explicitly teaching them.

Agree, changed.

"important film direc

tors": Maybe influential is better than important, whic

h suggests editorial voice.

Changed and add a note

"Bunga Anggrek Bulan (M

oon Orchid; 1988)": Why the late date?

Typo. Argh.

"Andjar publis

hed his only novel, Noesa Penida, on Balai Pustaka in 1

950": "on" does not seem right here; through? with?

In fa

ct, is the publisher essential? It slightly messes up t

he sentence. As it stands, we then have "the novel was

a critique of the Balinese caste system, which followe

d two lovers from different castes" which repeats nov

el. A better sentence would be "In 1950, Andjar publish

ed his only novel, Noesa Penida, a critique of the Bali

nese caste system, which followed two lovers from diff

erent castes."

Agree

"who became the country's first woma

n film director": Again, is there any reason not to nam

e the country?

Avoid repetition, but reinserted

"In 1955 Andjar headed the inaugural

Indonesian Film Festival, which received critical deri

sion when it gave the Best Picture Award to two films

, Usmar Ismail's Lewat Djam Malam (After the Curfew) an

d Lilik Sudjio's Tarmina": Why was it derided? What was

wrong with the films? Do we know what part Andjar had

in this choice?

Clarified. Doesn't say what it was, exactly.

The end of his life is a little ab

rupt. Are there any more details of his death? Or what

happened between 1955 and 1961?

I only have what's in the article. Sadly, I don't even have any information if he and Ratna had children.

Legacy

"the leftis

t Indonesian literary critic": Do we need to know his

political leanings? And if so, maybe link leftist.

Not especially necessary, as in this case it probably didn't influence his commentary. Now, on Hamka's Tenggelamnya Kapal van der Wijk or Marco Kartodikromo's work, Siregar's

political leanings are necessary as they influenced how he judged the work.

"brought with them new ideas that helped the compa

ny flourish until the arrival of the Japanese": Did th

e flourishing stop when the Japanese arrived? In fact,

did the company continue? As written, this is a bit vag

ue, and could be read as saying that they did better w

hen the Japanese arrived, as they brought better ideas

. That was my first reading, given that we already hear

d that Andjar admired Japanese film.

They closed. Now implied but not explicitly stated above.

This section s

eems to flit from one of his "trades" to another with

out really developing anything. What were his achievem

ents as a critic or director? Sarastro1 (talk) 20:22, 3

September 2012 (UTC)

Tried to add more critical commentary on the plays. No information on how the films performed commercially, and no awards available :-(

Wow, thanks for these commen

ts. I've already done part of it. I'll do more later.

Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:57, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Follo

w-up[edit]

Changes looking good, including the new le

ad; just a few follow-up points:

"After returning to B

atavia in 1929, he spent three years as a theatre and

film critic before joining the Dardanella touring tro

upe as a writer, eventually going to India in an unsuc

cessful bid to film his stage play Dr Samsi.": Very lo

ng sentence.

Split

"during which time he stayed in theatr

e, Andjar made a brief return to film, directing three

films in the late 1940s and writing four more": film..

.films, and "writing four more" kind of hangs. When?

"An

djar spent the remainder of his life as a theatre and

film critic, also adapting local films as serials.": f

ilm...films. Also, fragment at the end, not quite gramma

tical. Maybe just "and adapted"?

I think this is better.

"although he had li

ttle creative control and was mainly at the whim of t

he film production house backing him.": Maybe "creativ

e control of his productions"?

Sure

"Andjar wrote extens

ively regarding local productions.": Why not "about lo

cal film productions": regarding seems too grand for t

his, and there may still be confusion over whether thi

s means film or theatre.

This is both film and theatre

"The Indonesian film criti

c Salim Said credits Andjar as inspiring the marketin

g for 1929's Njai Dasima, which emphasised emphasised

the exclusively native cast.": Apart from the typo of

"emphasised emphasised", this is still a bit of a mout

hful. "credits Andjar as inspiring" is very clunky. As

I suggested above, I think "According to Indonesian fi

lm critic Salim Said, Andjar inspired the marketing...

" would be a better structure.

Fair enough

"Andjar published ma

ny of his stage plays using the group's backing; he al

so wrote several works exclusively for the group": Gro

up...group

Changed to Dardanella

Generally, watch out for an overdose of s

emi-colons, and overuse of Andjar, particularly to star

t a sentence.

I think some parts could still be made m

ore economical, and be careful with over-long verb phr

ases. Sarastro1 (talk) 19:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, you're a really good reviewer. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:26, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Indonesian names[edit] The article has a note

that says his name is Indonesian, without a surname o

r family name. How is the decision made to use Andjar

rather than Asmara, or both? Why is his wife called Rat

na Asmara, if Asmara is not used as a surname? Thanks.-

-Parkwells (talk) 23:39, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

She like

ly took his pseudonymic back name (for lack of a bett

er word) to identify herself with him. Andjar was chose

n instead of Asmara as it is most common in the sourc

es. We could have hedged with "Andjar Asmara" like Coh

en did, but I consider that poor writing. Crisco 149

2 (talk) 23:50, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Categories:

W

i

k

i

p

ed

i

a

f

e

a

t

u

r

e

d

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

s

F

e

a

t

u

r

e

d

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

s

t

h

at

h

a

v

e

a

p

p

e

a

r

e

d

o

n

t

h

e

m

a

i

n

p

a

g

e

F

A

-

C

l

a

s

s

bi

o

g

r

a

p

h

y

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

s

F

A

-

C

l

a

s

s

b

i

o

g

r

a

p

h

y

(

a

c

t

o

rs

a

n

d

f

i

l

m

m

a

k

e

r

s

)

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

s

L

o

w

-

i

m

p

o

r

t

a

n

c

e

b

io

g

r

a

p

h

y

(

a

c

t

o

r

s

a

n

d

f

i

l

m

m

a

k

e

r

s

)

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

s

A

c

to

r

s

a

n

d

f

i

l

m

m

a

k

e

r

s

w

o

r

k

g

r

o

u

p

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

s

W

i

k

iP

r

o

j

e

c

t

B

i

o

g

r

a

p

h

y

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

s

F

A

-

C

l

a

s

s

I

n

d

o

n

e

si

a

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

s

L

o

w

-

i

m

p

o

r

t

a

n

c

e

I

n

d

o

n

e

s

i

a

a

r

t

i

c

le

s

W

i

k

i

P

r

o

j

e

c

t

I

n

d

o

n

e

s

i

a

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

s

Navig

ation menu

C

r

e

a

t

e

a

c

c

o

u

n

t

L

o

g

i

n

A

r

t

i

c

l

e

T

a

l

k

R

e

a

d

E

d

i

t

N

e

w

s

e

c

t

i

o

n

V

i

e

w

h

i

s

t

o

r

y

Go

M

a

i

n

pa

g

e

C

o

n

t

e

n

t

s

F

e

a

t

u

r

e

d

c

o

n

t

e

n

t

C

u

r

r

e

n

t

e

v

e

n

t

s

R

a

nd

o

m

a

r

t

i

c

l

e

D

o

n

a

t

e

t

o

W

i

k

i

p

e

d

i

a

W

i

k

i

p

e

d

i

a

s

t

o

r

e Interaction

H

e

l

p

A

b

o

u

t

W

i

k

i

p

e

d

i

a

C

o

m

m

u

n

i

t

y

p

o

r

t

a

l

R

e

c

e

n

t

c

h

a

n

g

e

s

C

o

n

t

a

c

t

p

a

g

e

Tools

W

h

a

t

l

i

n

k

s

h

e

r

e

R

e

l

a

t

e

d

c

h

a

n

g

e

s

U

p

l

o

a

d

f

i

l

e

S

p

e

c

i

a

l

p

a

g

e

s

P

e

r

m

an

e

n

t

l

i

n

k

P

a

g

e

i

n

f

o

r

m

a

t

i

o

n

Print/export

C

r

e

a

t

e

a

b

oo

k

D

o

w

n

l

o

a

d

a

s

P

D

F

P

r

i

n

t

a

b

l

e

v

e

r

s

i

o

n

Languages

T

h

is

p

a

g

e

w

a

s

l

a

s

t

m

o

d

i

f

i

e

d

o

n

1

0

D

e

c

e

m

b

er

2

0

1

4

,

a

t

0

1

:

3

8

.