atf interview with edward purry

8/20/2019 ATF Interview with Edward Purry

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EXHIBIT 4

Case 2:14-cr-00332-JAD-VCF Document 121-4 Filed 11/18/15 Page 1 of 198


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Recording: x1-98488A7E-5C8E-422D-B898-D4C2D6168461_000001Transcribed by: H. Snyder

Reviewed by: L. Valle

Case#: 768020-13-0142

Target: JAMISON-Purry II, Edward

Recording: x1-98488A7E-5C8E-422D-B898-D4C2D6168461_000001

Participants: JAMISON-Purry II, Edward

S/A Roger MARTIN

RAC Ernesto DIAZU/M 1-3 [Unidentified Male]

Transcribed by: H. Snyder


Legend:[] = Brackets are used to separate the transcriber’s/translator’s remarks

from the original words spoken.[U/I] = Unidentified, Unintelligible diction.

[PH] = Phonetic transcription.

[sic] =The preceding is written intentionally or is copied verbatim from its original,

even if it appears to be a mistake.

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NAME TRANSCRIPTION

[Unintelligible voices in the background]

U/M1: Hadn’t opened it yet.

U/M2: It seems like a [U/I].

U/M1: Hey, what do you do with your [U/I]? Do you save them or just [U/I]?

U/M2: [U/I]—

U/M1: Yeah.

U/M2: All right. We’re gonna have to [U/I]—I don’t want to throw all that shit

away. Because—

U/M1: It, it’s right here, man. [U/I]—

U/M2: I don’t think we have all those [U/I], bro. [Voices overlap]

U/M1: [U/I]— I don’t [U/I].

U/M2: Let me see.

U/M1: Yeah, but still [U/I]— So I’m not gonna—[Voices overlap]

U/M2: [U/I]—

U/M1: Right.

U/M2: So if, if you go [U/I] then I’ll go through—

U/M1: [U/I], I mean, I, I don’t [U/I]—

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U/M2: We’ll be there tomorrow [U/I].

U/M1: Yeah, I mean, I, I don’t want [U/I]—

U/M2: [U/I]—

U/M1: Because I’m, I’m still working on [U/I]— all this [U/I] right here.

[U/I]— right here.

U/M2: [U/I]— [Pause, unintelligible conversation in the background, door

slams, noise]

U/M3: Hey, can you do me a favor? Can you sit on that chair for me? They’ll

be here in a minute, all right, man? They’ll take those cuffs too, I’d

imagine. [Pause] [Noise] [Unintelligible voices in the background ]

MARTIN: All right, man; we got—[Noise] All right, first thing we gotta do, we

gotta get some stuff out of the way before we can even talk. So—This is

your, uh, rights, rights and waiver. You have the right to remain silent.

Anything you ca—anything you say can be used against you in court.

You got the right to talk to an attorney before you—we ask you any

questions and to have a lawyer with you during questioning. If you

cannot afford a lawyer one would be appointed for you if you wish,

before any questioning begins. If you decide to answer any questions

now without a lawyer present, you got the right to stop answering at any

time. You understand those?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yes, sir.

MARTIN: Okay, I need you to initial by each one of those acknowledging that you

understand. Okay. And then—Let’s see here. I need your [U/I] twelve.

[Noise, rustling] Okay.

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DIAZ: Is it—do you by Ed or [U/I]?

JAMINSON-Purry: It doesn’t matter.

DIAZ: Okay. Um—My name is Ernesto Diaz. I’m and ATF supervisor here in

Stockton [PH]. This is Agent Martin. He’s an ATF supervisor; an ATF

agent out of, uh, Las Vegas. If I take the cuffs out here are you gonna be

fine? No problems? I just want you to be relaxed. [Noise] I’m sure you

got a bunch of questions, and wondering what’s going on. But if you just

give us a few minutes, we’ll explain everything to you.

MARTIN: Mhm.

DIAZ: And then we want your, your cooperation on some stuff, okay? [Sound

of writing]

MARTIN: All right, Edward where do—Where are you living at right now? Where

do you live here?

JAMINSON-Purry: I don’t— I—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Where do you live? What’s your, what’s your address?

JAMINSON-Purry: Where do I physically sleep? Uh, I stay—when I go to my mom house,

if I’m in Oakland I go stay at Twenty-four, six, six, Tail [PH] avenue.

MARTIN: If you’re in Oakland?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, but most of the time I’m either in Las Vegas or Reno [U/I]Mississippi; it just depends.

MARTIN: Okay, and that’s your mom’s?


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MARTIN: Uh— What’s your mom’s name?

JAMINSON-Purry: Sherril. [PH]

MARTIN: Sherril? Can you spell that for me?

JAMINSON-Purry: S, H, E, R, R, I, L.

MARTIN: So two R’s?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah.

MARTIN: Okay. Last name?

JAMINSON-Purry: G, R, A, H, A, M. Graham.

MARTIN: H, A— Does mom have a number you, you know off the top of your

head?

JAMINSON-Purry: I, I know her number. I don’t want you to call her.

MARTIN: Oh, we’re not gonna call her. [Telephone rings] Oh, let me shut off the

phone. Okay, like when you’re—Where do you physically sleep at?

What would you call home? What’s home? [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: I—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: What’s home? What’s home for you? Where are you staying at?

JAMINSON-Purry: Oakland would be home; but when I’m in Las Vegas I stay—I’d be probably at my cousin’s. Or must of the time I’m at the room.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: I get comps.

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MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: So when I’m out there, usually, mostly when I’m out there I’m doing

some gambling.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: When I’m working.

MARTIN: So when you stay at your cousin, what, what address is that?

JAMINSON-Purry: In Las Vegas?

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: He, he just moved. I don’t know his new address. I ain’t been out to

Vegas probably like—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: [U/I].

JAMINSON-Purry: Three weeks.

MARTIN: Okay, what’s your cousin’s name?

JAMINSON-Purry: Huh? I gotta give all that information?

MARTIN: Well, we gotta, we gotta—We gotta, uh, do some—you know?

Checking, when you talk to us, we gotta check some things out to make

sure you’re telling us the, the—you know, the real deal, you know?

JAMINSON-Purry: When I’m in Las Vegas most of the time I’m gonna be at Sunset Station.

MARTIN: Okay, but what’s your cousin’s name?

JAMINSON-Purry: My cousin’s name is Kentrell [PH].

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MARTIN: Kentrell?


MARTIN: K, E, N?

JAMINSON-Purry: T, R, E, L, L.

MARTIN: N, T, R, E, L, L. What’s his last name?

JAMINSON-Purry: Davis. D, A, V, I, S.

MARTIN: Okay. And what, what part of town does he live in?

JAMINSON-Purry: He was—He used to stay back there. He was there vaguely. He was

messing with his girl. She stayed back on Desert Inn.

MARTIN: Mhm. What’s the address?

JAMINSON-Purry: I can’t tell; I don’t know the address. I—

MARTIN: All right.

JAMINSON-Purry: I don’t like, literally pay attention to the address. I know how to get

there, but he was only there recently messing with that girl for a little bit.

MARTIN: What’s the girl’s name?

JAMINSON-Purry: I have no idea what her name is. I never seen her.

MARTIN: But—So Kentrell lives in Vegas or does he live in the Bay area?

JAMINSON-Purry: Kentrell stays out here.

MARTIN: Okay. What’s, uh—[Voices overlap]

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JAMINSON-Purry: When I’m in Las Vegas, I’m literally up there—

MARTIN: So he’s is like dating this girl?

JAMINSON-Purry: He, he don’t— She’s just somebody he was messing with. When I’m in

Las Vegas I’m usually at Sunset Station.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: I’d be there gambling. [U/I], just really chilling.

MARTIN: What’s Sun—So Sunset—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Sunset Station.

MARTIN: Okay. Uh, anywhere else you stay out there?

JAMINSON-Purry: No. Well, I’m mostly at Sunset Station.

MARTIN: So you get comped [sic] or what?


MARTIN: So you must be a big gambler then. What you play, man?

JAMINSON-Purry: Craps.

MARTIN: Craps? All right. Uh, you win? You lose? [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Sometimes.

MARTIN: How much money you win at craps?

JAMINSON-Purry: The most I’ve won?

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MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: I think like twelve thousand; thirteen thousand.

MARTIN: So you know how to play then. [Laughs]

JAMINSON-Purry: No, I—just like everything else. You just—either you’re gonna do it or

you’re not.

MARTIN: [Chuckles] Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: So is not like a science to it; is just— You don’t make the money if you

don’t bet it.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: So it’s either—it’s like, “Fuck, I’m gonna lose it.” Then, then just gotta

figure it out—

MARTIN: What’s the most you lost at the table? I’m just curious, cause I—

[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Probably like—Ten.

MARTIN: Ten?


MARTIN: That’s gotta suck when you leave; leaving the casino losing ten K, right?

JAMINSON-Purry: I mean—Yeah. Most…

MARTIN: [Laughs]

JAMINSON-Purry: You really just be like, whatever, fuck.

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MARTIN: So where, where do you gamble at days?

JAMINSON-Purry: Sunset Station.

MARTIN: Sunset? Anywhere else?

JAMINSON-Purry: Red Rock.

MARTIN: Red Rock? All right. You got like players cards? Or are you like a, like

in their programs and all that stuff?


MARTIN: That’s the way to do it. Uh—

JAMINSON-Purry: I know, fuck. I know what this is for.

MARTIN: You do? [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Now I know. Yeah.

MARTIN: What do you think?

JAMINSON-Purry: Uh—

MARTIN: What do you think this is all about?

JAMINSON-Purry: I looked at your badge—

MARTIN: Mhm. So what, what do you think [U/I]?

JAMINSON-Purry: I already talked to Agent Sanchez.

MARTIN: Okay. What did—[Voices overlap]

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JAMINSON-Purry: [U/I].

MARTIN: What did you tell Agent Sanchez?

JAMINSON-Purry: Nothing, I told Agent Sanchez, I asked him do you want me to come to

his office.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: And then he went out of town or something came up and I said,

“Whenever you need me to come to the office, is not a problem.”

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: “Just give me a call.”

MARTIN: What do you think this is about? What do you think he was calling you

about?

JAMINSON-Purry: I already know what he was calling about cause they showed, they

showed up to my mom house.

MARTIN: I never even met the guy, so— [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Oh—

MARTIN: I, I don’t even know—

JAMINSON-Purry: When they showed up to my mom’s house it was something like a

movie, literally.

MARTIN: Yeah?

JAMINSON-Purry: And that made her blood pressure go to nine thousand.

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MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Cause it’s me, it’s me like—

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: So I made her go to nine thousand and then how they showed up and

that neighborhood is like small nit so it’s like—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Yeah. Everybody know what’s going on.

JAMINSON-Purry: No, not that. It’s… if it’s a car [U/I] people— [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Oh, yeah, people know the [U/I]—

JAMINSON-Purry: So, literally it’s like— [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: They know they don’t belong there, right?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah. And that’s—

MARTIN: I got you.

JAMINSON-Purry: That’s really what it was. And then he called me and I told him, I said—

Man, I know what this is about. I definitely know what this is about now

that I’m here, so—

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: All right.

MARTIN: Well, we’re gonna deal that today. We’re gonna talk about some of the

stuff he was probably gonna talk to you about.

JAMINSON-Purry: Uh-huh.

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MARTIN: And some new stuff too. Okay?


MARTIN: Uh, where are you working at right now Ed [PH]?

JAMINSON-Purry: I’m self-employed.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: I do, I do—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: What do you do? What do you do?

JAMINSON-Purry: Security protection.

MARTIN: And, and— Where do you do that at mostly?

JAMINSON-Purry: Vegas. Sometimes I go to Arizona.

MARTIN: Oh, and, and who do you—Like, you’re probably contracted out or

something, right?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, I got, I got all my permits and stuff. So is like if you call me and

you [U/I]—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Yeah, but who—you would have to—Like you go through somebody,

right?

JAMINSON-Purry: You say what?

MARTIN: Somebody like a company would like say, “Hey I got a job for you,

man.”

JAMINSON-Purry: No.

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MARTIN: No? How does that work?

JAMINSON-Purry: Uh, built enough reputation, cause I worked security. Ever since I was

old enough to work it.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: So like, basically like a lot of co-workers I had at old companies they

started their own PPO’s and stuff now. But I don’t deal with them—is

really like if you or anybody, if not an artist, is not discrimination; if you

needed somebody, you know—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Yeah, they call you.

JAMINSON-Purry: I worked hard for everything I had, so—Is like if you need somebody

you reach out through channels—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: And you probably, if you need extra guys you would call some of your

friends or they—vice versa, they’ll reach out to you [U/I]. [Voices

overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: No, me, I would call everybody I know that had a permit, so—

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: So when we get to the different ground, it’s—I don’t believe in hiccups.

Like that’s—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: So that’s armed, you’re armed; like if you’re—[Voices overlap]


MARTIN: Legit armed security.

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MARTIN: What do you—what do you carry when you, when you do that? What do

you typically carry?

JAMINSON-Purry: It just depends, like what is it for; Like if it’s a little Chinese guy, who

just wants go gamble literally.

MARTIN: [Chuckles]

JAMINSON-Purry: He, he wants me to—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: You got something like small something like that. Like—[Voices

overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: No, I mean, every—it just depends like when I was out there for

Mayweather—

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Every time we went somewhere I had a different gun.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: Peter point blank, like—

MARTIN: What do you [U/I] your favorite, man?


MARTIN: What do you typically carry? Cause I know what I carry every day.

JAMINSON-Purry: My Smith and Wesson.

MARTIN: Smith? What is it? Like forty cal?

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JAMINSON-Purry: Forty.

MARTIN: Okay. All right. So how many, how many, uh—How many, uh, pistols

do you like typically use?


MARTIN: Like when you’re, uh—[Voices overlap]


MARTIN: Like if you go out, say you go to Arizona or Vegas for a deal, you bring

like two or three pistols or what? You say, uh, I’m gonna take, uh,

something for conceal, something for—I mean—

JAMINSON-Purry: I bring—

MARTIN: Like I got—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: I bring my—

MARTIN: I got three—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: I bring my forty and then, uh, find a smaller weapon. Like literally my

forty is a favorite. [U/I] case too big to be towed around.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Especially for concealed, like I don’t—When I go out of state I don’t

carry exposed.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: That defeats the purpose of everything I do—[Voices overlap]

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MARTIN: I know.

JAMINSON-Purry: Through training, everything, like why?

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: You want to blend in with them and I don’t have to—

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: So I usually carry my forty. But if not I carry a Glock or I just grab a gun

from one of my friends.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: Just depends on what it is. Like Mayweather was a different gun every

time we went out.

MARTIN: So who, who—Who do you—like give me some big names. You said

you did something for Mayweather. Was that for the last fight or what?

JAMINSON-Purry: You know, we worked for somebody, uh, some party, I wouldn’t call

them his groupies, you know? Entourage is just crazy.

MARTIN: For his entourage basically?

JAMINSON-Purry: Entourage is crazy. Is like, if you say, I don’t care who you say you

were; if you say you were Obama, if you’re paying—

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: We’re not talking until the money is in hand. In [U/I] period. [Voices

overlap]

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MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Like—

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: You’re paying. I’m not doing nothing until the money is up front.

So—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: So they pay you, they pay you upfront?

JAMINSON-Purry: He, like he is none of that and the back is like—You, you know what

you’re gonna get. That’s that. So literally if anybody calls and

ca—somebody wants to reach out to me and then the people I used to

work with, they’re really stationary. Like with those, I’m done with

those. [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: That’s boring.

JAMINSON-Purry: I’m done, I’m done with that post stuff. Like I’m not—I did that

along—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: You’d rather—You know, just give us somebody to roll with them

wherever they go to the airport—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: No, I rather, I’d rather just—if you need it, I’m there for it, you know?

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: That’s a different price range.

MARTIN: [U/I] post—that stuff.

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JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah. I did, no, I did at that and I ran into a lot of problems. Handled the

situation wisely but—So, like appreciation factor like, “Dude, I just did

that shit for what?”

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Like literally I’m gonna get shot at and didn’t know all the—[Voices

overlap]

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: I didn’t kill him because my gun was in the car, cause they—look weneed you to take it off cause the client’s tripping. Even though I got a

license for it. I’m done with it; I had too many close calls.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: And working at clubs and stuff—

MARTIN: You were working like in clubs and stuff like that?

JAMINSON-Purry: No, that’s easy. Like I’m talking like literally post like banks, Smart and

finals, credit unions; like stuff like that.

MARTIN: Oh yeah, that’s a—

JAMINSON-Purry: I used to work them.

MARTIN: People try to rob those but—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, you know, it was like, I’d be like—

MARTIN: Is not worth the money.

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JAMINSON-Purry: We’re, we’re—No, we’re here and they got a hundred thousand in that

safe.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Before the day start and when they come here, you want me to—If I was

to do something, like to rob a place, first thing I’m gonna do is shoot the

security guard.

MARTIN: Right, yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Your job is observe and report. You don’t wanna kill nobody but islike—That’s my job—

MARTIN: How much did you make doing that? While you were standing post.

How much did you make? An hourly wage? Or were you making—

JAMINSON-Purry: Uh—see it’s—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Is probably different for each job, but what—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Is, is so many, so many companies. Wasn’t, wasn’t enough. Like it was

enough when I only had my mouth to feed.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: So outside of that is not enough, cause like I know the whole game; as I

started progressing in that field—

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: I started knowing the book stuff. Like literally studying for the PPO test.

MARTIN: Mhm.

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JAMINSON-Purry: And starting on logistics. Forget, I always carried the team with me.

People I supervised.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: And then people who were listening to me instead of the person

supervising us, cause it was dumb, like how can you supervise me and

I’m more qualified than you.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Education and in the field while I was like—

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: It doesn’t make sense. But was not what you know, is who you know.

MARTIN: Right, right.

JAMINSON-Purry: And ain’t get enough. But I did finally see all the money, excluding

paying state and insurance.

MARTIN: Uh-huh.

JAMINSON-Purry: I would’ve made—I never, I would’ve—I would still be staying in post

somewhere.

MARTIN: Yeah.

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JAMINSON-Purry: Period. But if they, if we’re getting thirty-eight dollars and hour,

thirty-five for a post and then he trying to—telling me I’m not [U/I] your

average person and you can sell me that dream like, uh, this is fifteen.

We’re not—I know they was paying people ten doing the same thing I

do when I leave. But it was a point that when I used to go back and forth

for people, like that’s not how you do people.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: Like, we got families to feed too. We’re trying to make an honest living.

MARTIN: Yeah. They pay you minimum wage.

JAMINSON-Purry: No, they, they’re paying like, they’re still premium; you’re still getting

thirty-eight, didn’t wanna give you forty, cause you got to get benefits.

You have to get benefits if you’re full time so they make you part time

and make you work full time hours.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Then you lose all your money in taxes.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: And then stuff like that happens and—

MARTIN: What, what, what was that, what was that, uh, uh, place you worked for

before?

JAMINSON-Purry: I used to work for VMA Security.

MARTIN: VMA? What’s that all about? Who owns that?


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MARTIN: Who runs that?

JAMINSON-Purry: A gentleman named Mister Mackey.

MARTIN: What’s his name? First name?

JAMINSON-Purry: Vince.

MARTIN: Vince Mackey. Okay. I’m gonna be asking you some questions today.

Some of them I already know the answers to.


MARTIN: And is just kind of to see, you know, how honest you are with us.

[Voices overlap]


MARTIN: Okay? I, I just—Just so you know this is about a tenth of what I got. I

got a whole lot of shit of other stuff back in Vegas and I know there’s

some stuff in Oakland and there’s some stuff in San Francisco where our

offices. We’ve done a little homework on you.


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MARTIN: So, so I’m gonna be asking you a lot of questions today and I want you

to educate me. There’s a few things I don’t know, I want you to

enlighten me on. But, uh, the rest of the stuff, you know, we kind of

know the answers already to this. So you know, is—The things I was

gonna tell you today is us talking to you—[Clears throat] You got a very

small window, uh, with the information that you have that is useful to

us. And I would say that would probably be this afternoon. Is your, your

window to help yourself. After that if, if you don’t—say you, uh—you

before the judge and you get your attorney and you’re like, “Man, this

ain’t looking good. I want, I wanna help myself out.” And then the day,

that day, that day is over after today, really. Because, uh, because huge

concerns, uh, with some of the stuff you’ve done. And if we’re not able

to resolve some of that stuff today then, uh, then we’re beyond, beyond

you helping yourself. Does that make sense to you, man?


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MARTIN: You know, so—Um, so today is real important that you’re like as honest

as you can freaking be. I mean, uh, we’re gonna ask you some questions

for you about some of the purchases you made. I need to know where

that shit is at and I’m not bullshitting. I need to know who you sold it to,

when you sold it and I got some of the documents if you don’t, if you

don’t remember what it was or what you bought. I need to who has it,

cause we need to go fucking get it. Because just so you know right now I

know you bought a lot of guns, all right? A lot. And guess what? When

you sell something to somebody, it’s gonna pop up. It’s gonna pop up

and it’s shooting here. It’s gonna pop up in this. It’s gonna pop up in

that. And when you’re shipping stuff back from Vegas it’s gonna pop up

here, it’s gonna pop up there, okay? So all those guns you bought,

they’re on you. The serial number on that gun, it goes back to you. So

every time there’s a shooting, there’s a crime, that gun is gonna come

back to you. So that’s not good, right? You’re a security guy, you get

that, right? So today is your day to fucking help yourself and you’re—

Right now, charged with one felony count, right? And that’s just so I can

do a criminal complaint to it, one felony count. Your one felony count

can turn into fifteen freaking felony counts. And you know, mailing

those firearms through the mail and all that shit, that, that, that’s more.

Each time you filled out that form, that Forty-four, Seventy-three, you

know, when you’re buying your gun and you put down that you live in a

certain address in Vegas and you ain’t living there, that’s a P.O. Box.

That’s a felony count. So you see, uh, you see, you see where I’m going

with this, right? It could be really, really, really bad. Or I can go back

and talk to my prosecutor and say, “Hey, look, we recovered this many

guns. He was totally honest. He was totally up front. Let’s just leave it at

this and we’ll deal with this one charge instead of like fifteen.” Does that

make sense?

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MARTIN: Okay, so that’s what we want to get accomplished today, is for you to,

you to use memory. I’m gonna pull out some records and “Hey, you

know, you bought these many guns this date. Where, where did does

guns go? Who bought, who gave me the money for those guns? Where

did I get the money for those guns?” Those are the things we wanna

know. Who ordered enough guns? Cause I, I know you ain’t just doing

this shit on your own. You know what I’m saying? I’m not stupid. I

know you’re talking to other people. I know you’re shipping it to, to that

address in—out in Oakland. I wanna know all about the address. I

wanna know everything basically. So I mean, can you think of anything

Ernie?

DIAZ: This is it, this is your only shot, all right? To help us get some of those

guns back. All right? Your family still lives in Oakland, right?


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DIAZ: Right? Oakland’s like Stockton. Lot of shootings, lot of homicides. You

don’t want anyone in your family hurt by any guns that are out in the

street. Unintentionally, intentionally, we don’t want that. At some point

all these shootings gotta stop, all right? And this is where you can help

us get back some of those guns. That’s it, that’s what we’re here to talk

to you about. All right? Can’t make any promises, can’t cut any deals

with you. All we can do is talk to the prosecutor like Agent Martin said

and let them know that you helped us recover some of those guns. And

you may think you may not wanna, you know, give a name of somebody

you know, but think about it. They put you in this position by either

asking you or paying you to go buy those guns. All right? So all you’re

doing is getting those guns back. You’re gonna help us get those guns

back. That’s it. We got people in Oakland ready to go right now. But

you got to give us the names, you gotta give us phone numbers, you

gotta give us addresses to get those guns back. Cause the longer those

guns are out in the street in Oakland or wherever else you sold them,

whicgh—Like Agent Martin said, they will pop up in different places.

Saint Leandro—

MARTIN: Yeah.

DIAZ: Uh, I’m sure Stockton and Modesto. Every one of those guns that comes

back at a crime scene, God forbid a homicide, when it gets traced, you

know whose name is on that form?

MARTIN: That’s yours, man. They’ve already been traced. I’ve already— They—

traced and popping up. That’s why they didn’t do that interview. And

like holy shit, look at how many guns you’re getting traced back. Right?

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DIAZ: So we’re gonna go through that list, all right? And, and, uh, we’ll talk

about each gun, each purchase and—I know you don’t have all the guns

you bought somewhere, whatever it is your security firm or at your

girlfriend’s house, or at your parents’ house. So you’re gonna have to

remember where those guns went, okay? All right.

MARTIN: All right. Real quick, what, what’s up? What’s the story with Vince

Mackey? Did, did, uh—

JAMINSON-Purry: I used to work with him.

MARTIN: You just worked with him? That’s it?


MARTIN: When did you quit working there?

JAMINSON-Purry: Probably like seven, six, seven months ago.

MARTIN: All right, six—all right. Okay. Here, the first thing I’m gonna ask you, I

got, I got a deal here, I don’t have a freakin computer. I ain’t gonna

bullshit you. I know this, that’s you, that’s you mailing those guns out

there in Vegas. I got a really good video; like six angles of it on a CD.

Because that’s the Postal Service, they got really good cameras in there.

But, uh—Those guns, uh, those, they got intercepted. Obviously, you

know that those guns didn’t show up out in Oakland, right? You know

what I’m talking about, right?

JAMINSON-Purry: Mhm.

MARTIN: The guns you shipped.

JAMINSON-Purry: Mhm.

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MARTIN: You unders—


MARTIN: Okay, they didn’t show up. Those were seized by the Postal Service. The

Postal Service wants to indict you on that, cause that’s a felony, to, to

ship those guns. It’s also an ATF violation as well, uh, for you to ship

them through a common carrier and stuff, you basically got in a crime so

that’s not good. Uh, the guns that you shipped that day, you were

shipping them to, uh, uh, Leroy Helsy [PH].


MARTIN: What’s the story on that?

JAMINSON-Purry: Nothing, that’s my friend.

MARTIN: That’s your friend.

JAMINSON-Purry: That’s my Goddaughter’s dad.

MARTIN: Your Goddaughter’s dad?


MARTIN: And what is his involvement? And I need you to be fucking totally

honest.

JAMINSON-Purry: None, none. He gets, he gets them.

MARTIN: And what does he do with them once he receives them.

JAMINSON-Purry: Nothing. Just has the box. I came back, I pick them up.

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MARTIN: So he says, “Hey dude, your packages are here.”


MARTIN: Cause I know you shipped, uh, uh, others; cause we got those labels as

well, okay? Uh—So he, he calls you up?

JAMINSON-Purry: No.

MARTIN: How, how does that work?

JAMINSON-Purry: Whenever I get back in town I just go pick them up.

MARTIN: Does he open them up or anything?

JAMINSON-Purry: No, sir.

MARTIN: Okay. So you ship them to—Just to that address. Why, why his address,

dude?

JAMINSON-Purry: Huh?

MARTIN: Why his house? Just out of curiosity.

JAMINSON-Purry: I know he’ll be home.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: He doesn’t work.

MARTIN: He doesn’t work?

JAMINSON-Purry: He just takes care of my—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: And he signs for them, all right?

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MARTIN: He’s gotta sign for them though. He, he signs for them. I mean, we got a

signature. You know how you get the electronic bill, which we saw

where he signed for them.

JAMINSON-Purry: Yes.

MARTIN: Okay. Um—

DIAZ: Does he know what’s in them?


DIAZ: What, what—are you kicking him some money for signing for those

boxes or something? [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: No, that’s my—[Voices overlap]

DIAZ: At some poing, I mean, what—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: That’s, that’s my God’s—that’s my Goddaughter’s dad. Like literally, I

have, he like does work for me. Like I have a mobile installation

business. I have a permit for it. Like car audio, video and stuff like that.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: And he’s just like—only work he gets because he—

MARTIN: So you kick him some work?

JAMINSON-Purry: No, only works—Like he automatically, outside of his—

MARTIN: Mhm.

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JAMINSON-Purry: He only, really money he gets is like if you need a radio hooked up—

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: I will send you to him. Like literally like that. He can’t work cause

he—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: So—

JAMINSON-Purry: He’s basically the mom and the dad, cause the mom works.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: So he can’t, he can’t leave the house anyway. He has a fresh baby, so he

can’t go out and try to find a job cause they can’t afford childcare and all

that. He is basically the one watching the kid.

MARTIN: How many kids?

JAMINSON-Purry: He was two kids.

MARTIN: Two kids. How old are those kids?

JAMINSON-Purry: Uh, I think is—oh, his youngest is gonna be one in January and his

oldest is gonna be twelve.

MARTIN: Twelve?

JAMINSON-Purry: If she’s not twelve already.

MARTIN: Okay, real important, are there any guns in the house right now?


MARTIN: Okay. When was the last time a gun was shipped to that house?

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JAMINSON-Purry: Pst, cant’—couple—couple of months.

MARTIN: Okay. Any reason why you use the name Kenny Clutch?

JAMINSON-Purry: You say what?

MARTIN: I said, any reason why you use that name Kenny Clutch?


MARTIN: You know who that is, right?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah. Yeah.

MARTIN: Yeah, cause Kenny Clutch is dead. [Chuckles]

JAMINSON-Purry: Oh no; I just use his name. I don’t know who that is, like—

MARTIN: You know who Kenny Clutch is.

JAMINSON-Purry: No, I didn’t—

MARTIN: No, dude.

JAMINSON-Purry: Blantly [sic]—he’s my friend.

MARTIN: No, I’m not, I’m not saying you knew the guy personally.


MARTIN: I’m saying that you knew who he was. Does that make sense?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah. I heard—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Big Oakland rapper, you know?

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JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, well I did hear about him from being a rapper.

MARTIN: You heard about what happened in Vegas, right?


MARTIN: So why, why do you use that name?

JAMINSON-Purry: I just use Kenny Clutch, I had no precedent; Kenny Clutch, the first

name that came to my head and started using it literally.

MARTIN: Okay, I was just curious.

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, I know.

MARTIN: I was like, hum, what? Cause everybody in Vegas knows who that is,

right?


MARTIN: So—

DIAZ: So if you’re shipping these guns to Oakland to your—and he didn’t, uh,

Leroy doesn’t know what you’re doing? Why? I mean, obviously you

know what you’re doing isn’t right. Right?


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DIAZ: I mean, otherwise you’d put your real name on there. I mean, if I ship a

birthday package to my brother out of state, I’m gonna use my real

name. Cause there’s nothing in that parcel that I need to be worried

about. So, I mean, obviously when you’re shipping guns across interstate

lines to an address that isn’t yours, circumventing the state gun laws as

well, and you’re using a false name, I mean, I’ve be kind of concerned,

right? But—And you’re doing that; you knew what you were doing.

Dude, is not right. I mean, unless, unless, unless there’s some other

reason that you can tell me to convince us why you did that.

JAMINSON-Purry: No other reason.

DIAZ: Was, was what? Because you were shipping—buying the guns in Vegas

and shipping them to Oakland.


MARTIN: So how many total did you ship? I, I think I got a good idea, because we

got an, an idea of—they can track the names on the labels and stuff.

How many packages did you sent total? Cause one was intercepted and

I, I know there were others because all they have to do is Kenny Clutch,

three, ninety, five Keys. [PH] Why three, ninety-five Keys as well? Is

that just some random address? [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Yes, it just pop in my head, it was all random.

MARTIN: You were just driving by there and you saw it or something?


MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: Made up an address, packages total.

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DIAZ: Well here’s, here’s one of the first things I’d like to do. Is, uh, I’d like to

have our agents in Oakland go to Leroy’s house right now and talk to

him. Let him know that we’re talking to you right now and I’d like them

to get consent from you to go look in the house for guns. I know you

said there’s none in there right now. But in order to put us at ease and

make sure that none of these guns may be, you know, his, one of his kids

accidentally gets a hold of them, we don’t want that to happen. We need

to make sure for safety reasons they’re no more guns in that house.

Okay? What’s Leroy’s name? Now, he’s home, you just said he doesn’t

work.


DIAZ: Okay? What’s his phone number?

JAMINSON-Purry: I don’t know it by heart.

DIAZ: Is it in your phone? [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: You got, you got it in your cell phone?

JAMINSON-Purry: Huh? It’s—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Is it, is it on the iPhone or on that other phone?

DIAZ: We got your cell phone, so—

JAMINSON-Purry: It is, it’s in my iPhone.

MARTIN: Okay. All right.

DIAZ: We’ll go get your cell phone.

MARTIN: Let’s get that over there first.

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DIAZ: Yeah.

MARTIN: And then—

DIAZ: Before we call them.

MARTIN: Yeah. So do you wanna go ahead and call?

DIAZ: Yeah.

MARTIN: Okay.

DIAZ: And I’ll grab the number.

MARTIN: Yeah.

DIAZ: What’s the address? Do you know? We got it, but—

JAMINSON-Purry: No—

MARTIN: [U/I] off hand—

JAMINSON-Purry: [U/I] apartment—I’m trying to get the number on that. Excuse me,

cause— [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: I got the, I got the label you shipped it to. That, is that what you’re

talking about? Right there. Is that it?


MARTIN: All right.

DIAZ: I’m gonna go talk to these guys.

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MARTIN: All right, we’re gonna take a pause for a few minutes, all right? Let’s get

this—I’m telling you it’s important to clear that up. Then we’re gonna

talk about, uh, uh—Who you might have sold to and where any of the

other guns are right now. So we’ll, we’ll talk about that then. All right?

[Rustling of paper] I’d be right back. You want anything to drink?

JAMINSON-Purry: No, sir. Did, did you guys—

MARTIN: You want some food or something?

JAMINSON-Purry: Did you guys call and get in contact with them to—

MARTIN: Oh, for the car? We’ll find out right now. Okay, we’ll let you know right

now. All right. [Long pause, door slams, sighs, unintelligible voices in

the background, rustling]

[00:34:02 – 00:40:10]

DIAZ: I got your phones here. [Noise, rustling of paper]

MARTIN: All right, man. I’m gonna pull out a list of the stuff.

JAMINSON-Purry: That’s my phone. That’s my little [U/I] phone.

DIAZ: Is Leroy’s number here?


DIAZ: Is it in this one?


DIAZ: So we can—I can give it to the other agent in Oakland?

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JAMINSON-Purry: Huh? Yeah.

DIAZ: Okay. Is it—what’s the number? Uh… the battery’s dying and shit.

MARTIN: You gotta find, find— [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Contacts.

DIAZ: I asked.

JAMINSON-Purry: Contacts, green button.

DIAZ: Green button.

JAMINSON-Purry: Right there.

MARTIN: Right there.

DIAZ: Yeah. Phone—

JAMINSON-Purry: L.

DIAZ: Under L? Okay. Only ten percent.

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, L, L—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Let me, I’m an iPhone guy.

JAMINSON-Purry: The L.

DIAZ: You’re more familiar with that. What’s the number? And I’ll, I’ll text

it to, uh—

MARTIN: Okay.

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DIAZ: Go ahead.

MARTIN: Leroy, right?


MARTIN: So, five, one, O, five, six, three, nine, six, sixty-one. [Unintelligible

voices in the background]

DIAZ: Okay. I’ll text it to our guy.

MARTIN: I’m gonna shut the phone off. All right. All right, packages real quick.

How many total? I know you shipped quite a few out pretty, pretty, real

close period of time.

JAMINSON-Purry: I think, probably ten.

MARTIN: Ten packages total?


MARTIN: What name did you use in all those packages? Or did you use different

names as well?


MARTIN: So you just used the Kenny Clutch?


MARTIN: All right. That cost some money, right?


MARTIN: To ship those out? Right? [Chuckles]

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DIAZ: Were all of them shipped to Leroy? Or did you ship any to other, any

other different places?

JAMINSON-Purry: Shit. Like I’m recalling and going backwards.

MARTIN: I mean, you would know. I mean—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: You know, I’m, I’m—

MARTIN: You, you, I mean, if, if—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: I’m trying to go back to—each box, like—

MARTIN: Thinking about it?

JAMINSON-Purry: I’m tracking it in my head so I can tell you—[Voices overlap]

DIAZ: Maybe when we go through the gun list. When we go through all the

guns, that, that’ll refresh your memory. Cause then you’ll remember,

“Oh shit, I bought five Glocks, and I went to the post office the day I

picked them up and I shipped them to so and so.” Will that help you out?

JAMINSON-Purry: I’m just trying to think of the other name. That’s—

MARTIN: What I mean to say, you ship them all—the ones that you didn’t ship, if

you ship them to that same address.

JAMINSON-Purry: I shipped, I shipped them to one other address. I just don’t remember the

address, [U/I].

MARTIN: Who’s? Whose house was it? Maybe we can pull it up?

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JAMINSON-Purry: I don’t— I, I don’t know the exact—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Come on now.

JAMINSON-Purry: No, I’m telling you. I’ve—I have not once asked for a lawyer, I do not

remember.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: So when you—

MARTIN: So what—Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: Like yeah, that—

MARTIN: We’ll come back to that; we’ll come back to that. So he—Obviously he

would sign for them and then when you—You would—how is that

working? Where you—you just didn’t wanna drive the guns back?

JAMINSON-Purry: No, I just wanna—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Or you, you just jumped on a plane? Or—

JAMINSON-Purry: Whenever I get back in town, I just go get them.

MARTIN: Would you rent a car going out there? Or did you fly out there?

JAMINSON-Purry: No, cause like I said, that when, just my main intent. I’ll go out then just

be out there; I’d be gambling and all that stuff and then buy the guns and

then I’ll come back.

MARTIN: And how would you come back?

JAMINSON-Purry: Fly.

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MARTIN: Fly? Flying? All right. All right. And I know you got some up in Reno

as well. So I know you—


MARTIN: You buy guns up in Reno.

JAMINSON-Purry: Well—

MARTIN: So when you would go to Reno, would you fly back or you drive back?

JAMINSON-Purry: Flew.

MARTIN: You flew back?

JAMINSON-Purry: No, from, from—

MARTIN: From Reno?

JAMINSON-Purry: Reno was just a gun show.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: I was up there bowling.

MARTIN: Bowling?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, bowling.

MARTIN: All right.

DIAZ: Pretty nice bowling in Reno.

MARTIN: So, I’m gonna pull out this list—[Rustling of paper] Let me see what’s

in here.

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JAMINSON-Purry: They got in contact with them?

MARTIN: Um?

JAMINSON-Purry: For my car?

MARTIN: What’s that?

JAMINSON-Purry: If they get in contact with them for my car.

MARTIN: [U/I] that guy’s on the phone with my boss, so— We’ll step out here in a

minute.


MARTIN: And we’ll find out; I mean, that car is the least of your worries right

now. To be honest with you. All right. Pretty extensive list. I think it

goes in order. All right. We got a Glock Forty. So this is the one you

bought— [Clears throat] It was traced. Uh, and I think it uh—Was

registered in your name through, uh, gun registration. So, I don’t know

what model number it is. I don’t know if this is a twenty-three or a

twenty-seven or whatever. But anyhow, this one goes through gun

registration. It’s a Springfield Armory, you bought it back in June. June

twenty-sixth. Forty cal, you bought it from this dude named Rob

Crawford [PH]. You remember that gun?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, that’s probably the XD, Forty.

MARTIN: Okay. So where, where did this Springfield Armory, the serial number is

M, G, one, O, eight, four, O, two. You remember where that one went?

Do you remember who you sold it to? It’s like you bought it back in

June; it was actually like one of the, one of the first ones you got. When

you started, when you’re buying kick.

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JAMINSON-Purry: No, every—mostly every gun came back and went to the Mexican. And

I can’t find him for shit in the world. Most— we can just, I [U/I]—

[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Okay, let me—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: I was [U/I]— [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Here’s a real important question. Were you ordering for somebody else?


MARTIN: Were you—like were you shopping for somebody else? They would call

you and say, “Hey, man, I need, uh, I need Glocks, I need—” [Voices

overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: No, I would, I would be buying them—I, I like money, so—

MARTIN: I know.

JAMINSON-Purry: I [U/I] most of the guns. Some of them I might have like put sights on

them and like, barrel, you know, the barrel lasers cause I like that type of

stuff.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: I always liked that type of stuff. It never was an intent on, “Hey Ed, if

you’re going out buy me twenty guns.”

MARTIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So who, who did you give them to? Did you

give them to one person and then they sold them? Or did you

like—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: I sold, I sold, I sold them to a Mexican. I met him at the car wash.

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MARTIN: Which car wash?

JAMINSON-Purry: Um, it was the car wash on a Hundred [U/I] east Fourteen.

MARTIN: Hundred—Of One Hundred and—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Hundred avenue, east Fourteen. There’s a little car was right across the

street from—

MARTIN: East—

JAMINSON-Purry: From Auto Zone.

MARTIN: One Fourteen?


MARTIN: One Fourteen or one hundred— [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: There’s a—all I know is on a Hundred avenue it’s literally, if you go on

a Hundred avenue it’s literally right there.

MARTIN: East Fourteenth.

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, it’s literally on— [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Is it on the corner?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, it’s on—

MARTIN: Of Fourteenth and a Hundred?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yes, on the international—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: What’s the name of the car wash?

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JAMINSON-Purry: I—it just got black gates. There’s no signs, there be a taco truck in there.

MARTIN: Okay, I need to know this guy’s name asap.

JAMINSON-Purry: His name is Pablo.

MARTIN: Pablo what?

JAMINSON-Purry: I don’t know his last name.

MARTIN: What’s his cell phone number?

JAMINSON-Purry: His— [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Is it in your phone?

JAMINSON-Purry: No. That’s a different Pablo. I’ve been trying to call him, not for this.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: This in general, and I can’t find him. Like literally I dealt with him how

we’re talking here right now.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: I dealt with him face to face.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: I didn’t deal with him on the phone.

MARTIN: What is he driving? [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: I dealt with him face to face.

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MARTIN: What does he—[Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: He drives an S, Five-Fifty.

MARTIN: S, Five—Who does he work for, man?

JAMINSON-Purry: I have no idea, literally. [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Who does he, uh— Is he a gang member? Is he like a Norteño? He

mex—

JAMINSON-Purry: He met—See? I don’t know the difference between that like, you know?

[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: As far as gang thing. He’s Mexican.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: He got no tattoos; he’s skinny. He drives a S, Five-Fifty. Like

that’s—everything, the opposite—

MARTIN: That’s a sedan, right?

JAMINSON-Purry: No, that’s a Mercedes.

MARTIN: Mercedes what?

JAMINSON-Purry: S, Five-Fifty.

MARTIN: S, Five-Fifty is what? A sedan or is that like an SUV? [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah. That’s a four—that’s a four door.

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MARTIN: Four door—sedan?


MARTIN: Four door car?

JAMINSON-Purry: Four door luxury car.

MARTIN: What color?

JAMINSON-Purry: Black.

MARTIN: Black? Cali plates?

JAMINSON-Purry: Huh? Paper plates.

MARTIN: Paper plates.

JAMINSON-Purry: Dealer plates.

MARTIN: Okay. Does he own that freaking place? Cause he ain’t working at that

fucking place— [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: No, I don’t—I don’t know.

MARTIN: If he’s driving a fucking Mercedes. [Chuckles]

JAMINSON-Purry: I don’t— I can’t tell you if he own it; I never got to none of them

questions with him, sir.

MARTIN: Okay, how many times have you seen this guy? Obviously you’re giving

all the guns to him, right? [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: I, I dealt directly with him. I got no, literally if you were to give me X

amount of guns, I’ll find X amount of guns.

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MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: I know I can just go. There’s the workers, there’s, you see, it be so many

traffic as turnover, you know what I’m saying?

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: Like literally I can’t put a name on a face cause I don’t know. Or a face

there, cause it could be the same face.

MARTIN: How much were you making on each one of these guns?

JAMINSON-Purry: Just enough to—

MARTIN: If you buy a Glock for five hundred and fifty dollars.

JAMINSON-Purry: Just enough to sustain literally.

MARTIN: And you, and you, and you took it to Pablo, just say one pistol; say you

bought it for five hundred, five-fifty, whatever you’re getting it for out

in Vegas, how much is he paying you for it?

JAMINSON-Purry: I’ll sell it for probably double.

MARTIN: So like a thousand?


MARTIN: Like double?


MARTIN: Whatever you pay, you paid—And he paying them—and he was straight

up, uh—No, no questions asked, he paid you double.

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JAMINSON-Purry: Cash. Cause, I, honestly, honestly I was like, you know, it’s not my

business, but honestly I was like, it’s going to Mexico.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Ho—honestly, cause like from a car, is the average. If you got a paper

plate, I mean, I’ve heard stories about—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Do you think he’s cartel or what do you think?

JAMINSON-Purry: I—I don’t—He had no tattoos, sir. Like he don’t look hot. I look normal

with this here. He don’t look like he’s nothing. He don’t have no tattoosI could see. He don’t dress like he be— Cardigan, you know what I'm

saying? Like he a business man or something. I never aksed [sic] him

questions. Like literally even if this never happened I don’t give in to

none of that, you know what I'm saying? Like he’d be in a cardigan,

he’d be in a car.

DIAZ: How old is this guy?


DIAZ: How old?

JAMINSON-Purry: He gotta be like thirty something. He’s not forty. Cause I know what

forty year olds look like. He’s older than me for sure. He’s not younger

than me, he’s older than me for sure.

DIAZ: When you sold him the guns, were there other people with him that he

turned, that you could see him turn around and give the guns to them?

JAMINSON-Purry: No. No, he put them— he cut—put them in his car, cut.

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DIAZ: So you would buy the guns out of your own pocket first.


DIAZ: And you ship them or take them back to Oakland and then he would pay

you.


DIAZ: Did he ever give you money in advance for the guns?


DIAZ: Did he ever give you money ahead of time? [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: No, always—always like literally—like a lot of, you know where your

bank line is.

DIAZ: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: I already knew he was gonna buy whatever it was. Because when he was

around, literally—

DIAZ: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: He’d buy everything I got. Everything meaning to the fact I say

everything. I don’t deal with none of that other stuff.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Everything. If, everything.

DIAZ: Did he ever give you—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: He would buy it.

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JAMINSON-Purry: If you… ever wanted to sell your truck in a parking garage…

DIAZ: He would buy it.

JAMINSON-Purry: He would buy it. No checks, no—I should check the money with a

marker. Everything. For, if you had a four wheeler, everything.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: Boat, every, so—I didn’t even reach to the other stuff, cause I don’t deal

with that type of stuff. But any and everything. Any and everything.

Any—that’s like if I wanted to sell my sister, you know what I'msaying?

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: He would buy her. It was any—poor judgment, yes. I understand all that.

I did it for a reason.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: To pro—to provide for myself, for my family. Any everything. Any

everything. It was not—I never dealt with him with none of that. Any

and everything. And the cold part is like I stumbled across—to even

[U/I] this question—I stumbled across him because when I got finish

working one day—

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: He literally was there. He was getting his car washed.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: So I— [Voices overlap]

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MARTIN: Where you in your security—

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, I found—cause I just got finished doing something with my

friends.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: I was in full ensemble, literally. Vest—

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: Pistol, everything; you know, like I got the permits for it, so—

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: I can literally stand—be right there—

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: With it on.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: Cause I don’t ever take off my duty belt, none of that.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: And that’s how that whole thing initiated it.

MARTIN: So what? How this initial conversation go?

JAMINSON-Purry: He walked up to me. Like you could be sitting out like that. I’m

like—I’m gonna start laughing, you know what I'm saying?

MARTIN: Yeah.

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JAMINSON-Purry: Most people—it’s Oakland, so half of the people probably got a gun

anyway.

MARTIN: Right, right, right.

JAMINSON-Purry: So—

MARTIN: So how, how did—

JAMINSON-Purry: He, he was talking, he initiate it the conversation. I’m like, yeah; I’m

like, I’m legit, man. Like I have no worries. I’m legally obligated to

carry my firearm.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: You know what I'm saying? Like legally. I’m like, this is with the

exception that if I don’t have this on, there’s no more open carry.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: So I can’t brantly [sic] walk around like that. That would be like asked

for a confrontation with OPD.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: And I know about OPD, so it’s not like—

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: I wanna go through that.

MARTIN: Right.

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JAMINSON-Purry: Then we was [sic] talking. He was just having a normal conversation.

He was talking about soccer, which I know nothing about. You know,

that’s big with them. He was talking about football, he a niner [sic] fan.

I’m not a Raider’s fan.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: And then he was like, “Well, how much would that thing be costing?”

I’m like, it just depends; you know what I'm saying? Like literally, what

brand you buy, what you wanna buy. A gun is a gun.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Like you got the [U/I].

MARTIN: The Mercedes gun— Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah, and then the Avalon.

MARTIN: And then you got the [U/I].

JAMINSON-Purry: So that’s literally all that. And he was like, he was like, “Oh, well, do

you know somebody?” I’m like, “No.” You know what I'm saying?

Cause I literally don’t, you know? Somebody that wanna buy—You

know somebody that got some guns. And then for a reason I aks him,

I’m like, “What do you need the gun for?” Cause you don’t look—

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: You know what I'm saying? If you look to a par I’m automatically

assuming you got one too.

MARTIN: Mhm.

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JAMINSON-Purry: Cause you pass everything.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: And you built your way up to it. And so we got to that conversation and

I was like, why you don’t have your gu—I’m like, common sense, if you

got a California I.D. or if you go to the appropriate classes and pass you

can get it.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: I’m like, and my motto is, anybody that can get it, get it. Because younever know what’s gonna come.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Never know what’s gonna come, from being the government stand point

to NRC [PH]. I’m like, that’s my thing in life. Like if you can get it, get

it. Because once you can’t get it no more that ship has sailed. Then he

aksed [sic] me, and that was that. Then it was like—and then—that’s

how it kicked off right then and there.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: It was like—I’m like, there really wasn’t no—there really was no

thinking. I was like, damn. I know I can make some money, you know?

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: And that’s—

MARTIN: Did he throw it out there that first time?


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MARTIN: Did he throw it out there this time?

JAMINSON-Purry: He was like, he aksed, “You know where I can get some guns?”

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: And I’m like, no. I’d never—I was, we was talking for an extensive

time, cause I was getting the car washed.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: And then I was like, “No, I don’t know.”

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: And then— I was thinking and then it just like, you know what? There’s

a chance for me to catch up on some bills.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Pay some stuff all the way up. Like, you know what I’m saying?

MARTIN: I understand. Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Literally there was no intent—

MARTIN: Right.

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JAMINSON-Purry: And then it was that. And then it was, I was like, you know what? I was

like, “You know what? I don’t know nobody, but I might know

somebody.” And I said, “How would I get in contact with you?” He

goes, oh, you know what I'm saying? “Just go see my man.” Pointed to

the dude. Never called his name. I [U/I] to catch his name, because I

literally would go to the car wash— literally I would go to the car wash

and when he see me he already knew to get the message. It wasn’t no

engage, like if we go somewhere and there’s no engage conversation.

You get what I’m saying?

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: That’s out. That’s out and that’s over. There’s no engage conversation.

See me come, I get out, get my car washed. I’m not going to get my car

washed. I can go to any other place to get my car washed and that’s how

I get the message to him. I already knew it was good, you know what

I'm saying? Like it wasn’t not no—I already knew that it was icing on

the cake. You know what I'm saying? Literally.

MARTIN: Right, right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Like if I had, if I could put my hand on fifty, a hundred a thousand. I

already knew the icing on the cake. Poor judgment? Yes—I didn’t aks

[sic] where they was going. How they was doing, you know what I'm

saying? But I like have Mexican friends—

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: Literally that I went to school with and you know, it’s like I aks

questions, I ask questions cause they go—they family got family in

Mexico. They don’t go to take nothing, they just go to go.

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MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: And I’d be trying to dibble into how the world over here. I know there’s

cartel, and they, they tell me that they’re like, “Well, we can’t even go

over there and really walk around, cause we’re not with them. So we’re

not with them, even though we normally coming from the United States

going over there and our family’s there.” We was born here, they’d be

like, you know what I'm saying? We can’t, they would engage with

them. If they see them, like, you know, you really ought to be, Mexican

out of place, you’d be a tourist. There’s not really a place to even be a

citizen at this point because it’s their world and it’s just, the

rest—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Let, let me ask you this, the guy that you would give the guns to—

JAMINSON-Purry: I gave them directly to him.

MARTIN: What, what was his name?

JAMINSON-Purry: I gave them directly to Pablo.

MARTIN: Oh, to Pablo?

JAMINSON-Purry: Yeah. That’s what I’m telling you. It wasn’t no—[Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Like literally, I— [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: So this is, I’m, I’m confused. Initially I thought Pablo said go to your

guy. Got to my man. [Voices overlap]

JAMINSON-Purry: No, I would go to him, you know what I'm saying?

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MARTIN: You’d go to Pablo?

JAMINSON-Purry: I wouldn’t physically go, “How you doing?” you know what I'm saying?

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: I would go to the car wash.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Pablo is the bank.

MARTIN: Yeah.

JAMINSON-Purry: Pablo is the bank.

MARTIN: Okay.

JAMINSON-Purry: Pablo was the bank. I would go to the car wash and if the agent, he see

me at the car wash he already knew what it was. There was no need for

conversation.

MARTIN: Right.

JAMINSON-Purry: Cause one of the guys, you know that’s sitting here or anybody sitting

there, you know, would’ve noticed. [Voices overlap]

MARTIN: Does he own the car wash?

JAMINSON-Purry: I don’t—That dude that I would go, he [U/I], you know what I'msaying? Like it’s been [U/I] lost without you, catch my drift? I would go

down there, just to go.

MARTIN: Mhm.

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JAMINSON-Purry: He’s not there. He’s not there. That was my only direct line to Pablo.

[U/I] direct line. I just knew that he would come. I’ve been doing that

for like the last two months.

MARTIN: Mhm.

JAMINSON-Purry: Just popping up out down there. He not there. I don’t want to engage and

go to him like, “How you doing, sir? What happened to the dude with

the mustache?” You know? That’s not my place. I don’t know them

people. They can be assassins.

DIAZ: So when you would go there, Pablo would show up.


DIAZ: How did the transaction take place?

JAMINSON-Purry: That was— [Voices overlap]

DIAZ: No, explain to me in very detail. You would get the guns out of what?

Your trunk? A bag? A duffel bag? Where did you have the guns?

JAMINSON-Purry: Man, it was in a box.

DIAZ: In a box.

JAMINSON-Purry: Same box they get shipped in. [U/I]. [Voices overlap]

DIAZ: And how many guns would you have in a box at a time [U/I]?

JAMINSON-Purry: Four, five. If not—[Voices overlap]

DIAZ: What, what was the most you ever sold him at one time?

062


8/20/2019 ATF

atf interview with edward purry

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