Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 7 JUNE 1904

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions [7 JL"NE.J Address in Repl;y. 289

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

TGEKDAY, 7 JU:->E, 1904.

The SPBAKER (Hon. A. S. Cowley, He1•bert) took the chair at half-past 3 o'clock.

QUESTIONS.

RE:->TS FOR CoAL LICENSES. HoN. E. B. :FOR REST (Brisbane North) asked

the Secretary for Mines-What IS the nggregate sum received since the year

1898 to date as 1e11ts for licenses to pros11ect for coal on the Dawson-::\'Iackenzie Coal Field?

The SECRETARY ~'OR 1\II:I\ES (Hon. J. W. Blair, Ipmich) replied-

1'otal amount lodged with applications .. £5,88tl 1:3 6 Less refund::; ou applications refused 7f,7 11 0

Set amount ... ... £4,631 :l 6

EXHIBITIONS To UxrvErtsrTrEs.

Mr. 1\IoDO:'\NELL (Fortit-ude Vallcv) asked the Ubief ::-lecretary--

1. ..lre not the Queensland exhibitions to univer..:ities awarded to candidates on the re.- nit:.; obtained by them at tllc annual senior examinations in connection with the S\'durv Cnlxer:-:itv :--

2. ho uOt the tcgtllations of that nnn~ersity limit a candidate for the ::;enior examination to ten subjects~

3. Do not tbe rP...::nlation:-; tor the Queeusla,nd exhibi­tinn~ reqnire ca.n<litl ... tes to be <"Xamiued in eie\·en subjeets, and b not C-ree-k compulsory:--

4. ArP not r·ualidate" for the senior examination, wh,~ al~o comretc for Qncenslan<l exliibitions, tl1ni-< unduly ha fli(•apprd m ('0 npetitiOll with .\'ew Sonth \i\I~},Jcs :;tndents who enter ror the same ~onior e'~ami­nation?

5. Does the 1Iinh.ter com;ider that Greek should be a compnbwry ~uhjeet?

6. \Vill thf' :Jiini ... tm· }Jrovide t1wt this unfair com­petition shall he obviated in fntnre hy reducing the number or subje~ts to ten>

The CHIEF SECRETAEY (Hon. A. Morgan, War·wick) replied-

1. In the subjects prescribed for Queensland exhibi­tions to universltiei; the Sydney senior examinations are used for the purposes of the coo. petition.

2, y,.,_ 3. Yes. 4, 5. 6 rl'he Seeretary for Pub1ic Instruction will com­

municate with the heads of approved secondary schools in regard to the subject matter of these questions.

1904-v

iiiAH~UPIAL JJOAR118 ACTS. ::VIr. FOX (NormaniJ!J) rrsked the Secretary for

Agriculture-Is it the intention of the Covernment to cantinue the

oper~ttion:=:: of tlle J.Iar~nphtl Boards Act, 1897, and the }!arsupial Bonrds Act. 1H97, Amendment Act, 1901, which expire on the lst Jannary, 1905 ~

The SJWRETAHY FOR AGRICULTURE (Hon. IJ. li'. lJenham, Uxle.11) replied-

The qnestion of a co11tinuing Hill nnder rcrtain amendment~ is e11gagiug atreution.

PAPERS.

The following papers, laid on the table, wen> ordered to be printed:-

(1) Statement 'bowing operations of the sugar experiment st.ar iom fund from lst .J nly, 1903, to 1st lVhy, 1904.

(2) Heturn showing travelling expenses in­curred by Dr. ::\Iaxwell.

(3) Annn..1l return of local Deputy Curator of Intest><te Estates, 1903,

( 4) Repe>rt of the Chief Inspector of :Fac-­tories and ::\hops for the year 1&03.

The following paper was also laid on the t>tble :-Heturn to an Order, relative to shipment of barley to London, made by the House, on motion of Mr. Forsyth, on the 25th J\1 ay laso.

ENGAGKMEXT OF DR. 1\fAXWELL.

The TREASL'HER (Hon. W. Kidston, Rock­hmnpton): 1 pmmioed to lay on the table of the House tbe agreement between Ur. }Iaxwell and the Govern111ent, The originaJ agreernent was

, published by order of the Leg1slottive Assembly on ' the 17th December, 1901, and I now be" to lay on

the table oi this House the correspondence relat­ing to the re-eugagemem ot Dr. Maxwell, and move that it be printed.

<~uestion put and pas.ed.

PETITIO X. SG~lHY CLosiNG OP PcnLJC-HOGs~:s.

c\Ir. AR::\lS'I'HOXG (Lockye,·) presmted a peUtion frmn cm· lain eleclit~rs of Lockytr, praying for an arueudment of the iicen~ing law~, so as to admit nf limitccl hom·:; for the sale of liquor on Sunday".

Petition received.

ADDRESS IX REPLY. Hr:sr1TPTio~;:: oF DEBATE.

}lr. STODART (Logan). ':ho was received with cheer,,, said: I rise with some temerity to say a few · "ords on the "\ddrcss in Reply to Hw Speech from the Throne, following as I do on the very able specciws which have boon made by ~linisters and f'x-}1inistcrs, and also other members. such as the members for Too­""' .. ong, Balonne. ~I ore ton, Carpentaria, and others. Still I think hon. members will acquit me of any de.,irc to occupy too much time. I haYe as little to mv credit in the volu1nes of H an8r:1rd as rnost n1embers, and, therefore, if I occupy four or fh-c hours now-(laughtcr)­it is no rnore t·han I arrt entitled to, at any rate. In passing, I would like to endorse what has been ·aid by prcYions speakers, and pay a tribute to the memory of the late Secretary for :\lines. I do not know that I can find any words to add to what has already been said, except that the late Minister was a man in every sense of the \vord, and a '' white 1nan"' at that. I would also like to offe,r my congra-tu­lations to the Home Secretary on his accession

JVIr. Stodart.]

290 Address w Repl,IJ. [ASSEMBLY.] Address 1!l Repf.t;.

to the Treasury benches. I think he IS quite justified in occupying the position, and I may say the same with respect to the Treasurer. I regret that I cannot sav oo much for other occupants of the front TI;casun bench. and I hope, if oYer I attain to that high and sublime position, I may get there by other methods and Ltnde-r \.ery cliffPrent condition::- to t.ho~P adopted by the gentlemen to whom I allude. I WOLlld also like to offer my congratulations to the hon. member for Barcoo upon his clec­t.iou as leader of his party. I trust that he may long be spared to Sf'e a further increase in the ciYilisation of the rabbits in the VY est­ern districts. and that next time he goes there they will be ridiug bicycles instead of horses. (Laughter.) The action of the Go­vernnlent in filling certain YacnncieR in tht> Upper House is OllP that has not much to recommend it, in Yiew of tlw probable reduc­tion in the number of members of this House, and I think some of the appointments might well have been left alone until such time as that question was settled. Tnrning to the Governor's Speech, one of the first items that attracts my attention is the appointment of "a competent and independent board'' to inquire into the civil sen-ice. I do not think much of the compdency or independence of the board. nor can I see that there was anv necessity for it. The findings ha,·e ,hown that'. I am of opinion that the heath of the depart­lnents were q_uite capable of maki11g whatever recommendations were necessarv. I verv much deprecate this Onslaught On the CiYll ~ervwe by e,·ery Gove.rnment directly it gets mto low water with Its finances, bPcause it has a demoralising effect on the sen-ice and it will cortainly not tend to improve the' high standard which it has attained. If matters go on in the presE'nt way, fatht'rs will not allow their sons to enter the service at alL and there will be some difficulty in getting ·competent nwn. [The PREMIER: Did the hon. momb0r not support the Special Retrenchment Bill'!] Yes, I belie Ye I did. [The PREMIER: Was that not an onslaught?l rMr. STEPHEKS: It was not butchering.] In that casf', at. any rate, the (io­vernment were not afraid to face th(' position themselYes. They did not put the country to the expense ?f an expensiYe board of inquiry. The next thmg among the manv Bills which ar.:; promi;;ed is a Franchise BilL f suppose that IS m response to the g0neral cry for E'lcctoral reform which we hear at election timf's. I m;vseif do not S?e anything particularly wrong wrth our Electwns Act. I think it is a fair Act, which might perhaps be improved a little, but the drastic changes proposed to be 1nadc ar~ n~t, in my opinion, necessary. I do not thmk It is unfair to haYe one adult one Yote, if it is given on proper lines: but I do think that the one vote one value would be somewhat difficult of application in this 8tate. I think the fact that this franchise question has been cleci<led on bv the F0deral Government i•-. one of the rea~'-'OllS whv Vi'E'

should lea Ye it alone her<> for we her·e' ha Ye not gained anything through any action of the Federal Governrnent or of the Federal Parliament. Then. again. if we have one adult one votE' I think that a longt'r term of residence should be ll<'C()Ssary becfore peopk are placed on the rolL and also t!Ja.t womcH slwuld he allowed to vote by post. Followir1~· on that. we are to have n Bill provirliug a Te-fPrendurn on the n'rluction of n1Clllb('l'~. and I think that that is abwlutcdv unnec<>ssarv. I have no hesitation in ~aying tl1at many hol1. me-mber~ haYn •)iYCll lJlPdge, to their con­f:tihumts on thi::; qu0sl"ion. a11d I an1 ~urc that the majority of members here will vote for a reduction of 111en1bers. Theu vYe are pro~

[Mr. Stoclcat.

rni~ed au arnendn1~nt of the Incon1e Tax r\.ct. Of Cf)Ul':-'.e WP wr;nld 1ikP t,o ~et' thi tax donL' a v 1v ~,-ith alto!~'Pthcr if the tirne, pC'nrlitted: Lut ~I thiuk the Trcasnn•r should have ~omP: m~tlinm of replenishin:~· the Trea,mry. ei'pccially a . ..: thE-' Cn~tom ": and Excise hn1 ~~ L:crn takPn a·,yav fron1 --:B. But at the salTIP ti1nc I do uot thiek it is right that 10~. should l1e chargecl OH ::o:me p0r:.pk•. I would like to ~en an ex­ernptiou up to £150 for married n1en, for a ~inglc- rnan getting £50 is better able to pay ][)>. a vear than a married man \Yith a larrrer salary." 1 can congratulate the GovernmC.nt on their actioE iu conlJC'ction ''vith the new t). :'\. Bo.nk ag-reement. Hi' evidence that the in ... titution is being managed with skill and ability. I a!"' congratnlatE' the country 011

the in1proven1cnt that is taking place gcuerally. \Ye arP also prmnisE'd a Dairy Bill. and to 1nv mind this is a necessary measure. I ca~mot sa v likn the mover of the Address in RPply. that there are a lot of dirty dairies in my district, but if there are any in other electorates, such as vYide Bay, it only shows the greater necessity for a Dairy Bill. The butter trade is largely on the increa,e, and I think the hon. member for Wide Bay should have been a li ttlc more generons to thos<> whom he previously supported, and give them some credit for the work done in this direc­tion. When i\Ir. Thomson lectured here he advocated a butter factory co-operative sys­tem ; and this was a business that he was weil capable of handling, for he had made a great success of it at Byron Bay, New South VY ales, and other places: anc~ why he has lately withdrawn his advocacy of this system I do not know. 'We are also promised an amend­mE>nt of the Sugar \Vorks Guarantee Act, and while I am not de•,.irous of reiterating what other speakers have ~aiel, I think it is high time that something should be done in the direction of conserving the interests of the Government in connection with these mills. If the reappointment of Dr. Maxwell proves beneficial, then good work will be done, with­out in any wa.y saying whether. econom~ca!Iy or not. The amount to be paid to h1m lc'

very large : but still. if. the work he does is beneficial, the money will be well spent; but at the same time I think that it will to a certain extent put aside a good deal of the work that that gentleman has already done. The scientific teaching of the doctor ha.s been somewhat spasmodic, but tha.t is very largely due to his attempting too much, and I think his efforts should ha.ve been concentrated in one district. I know that his teaching in the Logan a.nd other districts has done some good. espBciall,v in advocating deep cultivation. Of course the advantage' of that were known years before Dr. 1\Iaxwell came here, but the fact of that gentleman inducing farmers to apply that system will bear good fruit, and well repay the cost. Then we come to the Diseases in Pla.nts Act. I know that the Minister for Agriculture has taken a. great deal of pains and devoted a large amount of time to thiH subject1. I think the present Act is very defective, and without amend­ment might as well be wiped off the statute­book. Several conferences- have been held dealing· -., ith this and other matters, but I do not think that the fruitgrowcrs were very well satisfied with the results of the last con­ierence. for they have , pointed out some points in which they disagree with the con­clusions arrived at. I have here a letter which appeared in the CouricT of the 2nd ,July from one of my constituents, and I canuut do better than rPad it -

Sir,-The importance of the subject cornpels me to ask you to grant me space in ;your columns to say a !ew

Address in Replp. [7 JUNE.] Address in Repl,y. 291

·\vor<l~ with reference to the above conference, which I attende<l as dclf':;atc for the Jiount Cotton and n.edland Hay Frnitgl'OWCl't-i' _\ssociation. Tu file it :1ppears that everything in connection l\·itll this meeting was pre­arrange(l, and tli11t 1t became a lllcre matt.er of form for Lh(· Llelegate:s to say ye:s m· no. 'rime should have been allmved for ~ucll au importaut. matter t,o be fully dis­cussed ; and to do this, tbe conrerence :should have sat Dn two <lays at lca..st, 1vhich woul(l have enabled dele­'<!;rttes to expre .. s their Yl€\YS. I think that we fruit­grower~ are quite earmOle of lookmg after nur fruit trees w1th~ut any Goyernment inspecLiun, which simply 1neans addllional but uunecessHry taxation to tlle }JOOr L·uitgro·wer. It' legislatiun should be ccLrricd out in the '\Yay it was foreshadowed at the eontercnce, it 'vill cer­tain I~' cause ru~n to those who are at present ~trugghng on \Vlthout c~tiHlal. a11d who cannot afforcl to pay addi­tioual taxatwn. It may in time to come prove of benefit to the larger rn11.n With Crt_pital. but it will crn::~h ~he small man w.ho ha~ none. To my lllilld, the danger n·o~m scale, etc, 1s much overrated. I hfive ~;;ome trees which are beautifully clean, growing about 10 chains from others which are covered with scale, and it has not spread th:.tt Ulstance in ronr j ears. '!'twn again. look at our uatural forest, which is eovered with disease: Could it be serionsly at·gued that a cyanide plant would be or service 111 that direction~ ~ome years ago 2s. 6d. an acre was all tlle Government charged some of the seleetors for the land, and uo'v we are to pH.y 2s. 6d. per acre for an inspector to t:omc into our orchard to tell us whether we are doing well or other­wise. 'rhe thing StJC!HS tO me :.tbsurd. rrnis 'vill not ~ave the t'ruitgrower; but I would recommend \V hat I have always practised-~ooll cultivat.ou and mantlre and irrigate it possible. This will make fa.rmin"· of anY kind successful. o

I have been on the land since I was ten years old. I have been pretty well through all stages of farming. I have been sugar~grmving snc~Jessfully for about twenty years, the result of good cultivation and management. For the last six years I have been growing fruit, and at that I am holding my own simply throuw;h good cultiva­tion. But if tile Govern men I art::l very anxious to do some thin~; to beuefi t the fruitgrower, let them see to it that he is protected when he sends his fruit to market. I agree with J.:1r. Knowles and his remarks re market inspection, and. when he says that the grower very often gets half the prtce he should have for his fruit, for in this matter I can ahio speak from experi­ence .. A short time ago I shipped to ~ydney a quantity ot frmt. The cost of the cases in \Vhich the same was packed ''as £~ l5s., freight extra. 'l'he returns amounted to £4:! 16s., which should, at the least, have amounted t'l £:!7. If the G•1vermnent can assist the grower in such matters it would be a step in the right direction.

I am, Sir, etc., H. HEIKE1UAN:X.

.Following on that, there came under my notice, as a member of the council of the Chamber of Agriculture, the fact that in South Australia a charge is being made for the inspection of im­ported fruit---6d. a case on fruit, and 3d. a bunch of bananas. I do not think that is show­ing a very federal spirit, and I trust that the J\'Iiuioter for Agriculture will, if he can do so constitutionally, put on a charge of ls. per bag on South .\ustralian flour and 2s. 6d. per case on their Vlines con1ing here, which is tanta­mowlt to a fairly heavy dutv. Then we arc promised an amcndmcut of 'the Agricultural Bank .\et--a measure which the hon. member for Xorm11nhy 11nrl others have taken consider­able interest in. \Vhen the Act was passed we were uot satisfied with it, but took it as the +hin end of the wedge for something better to follow, anrl I was sure that the capable trustees who were> appointc•cl would soon be able to advioc as to tbe b0st linos on which to make advailccs, and at the same time safeguard the i11ten,sts of the Treasury. I trust that this mattce 'X ill r0cei n' the attention of the Govcrn­nlent. ..._..\.. great d~al has been ~aid both inside

and outside the House lately on [_4 .-,,m.] the subject of charities. I could

take up considerable time in dis­<:us~ill~ tbis quPstion, but I do not purpose doing so. I rcgr<:>t yery much that in the list of Bills proposNl to be introduced there does not appe-ar a measure prm-iding for the better

upkeep of the hospitals of the State. Volun­tary contributions with the prescmt system of State endowment haYc aboolutc-ly tailed. LThe PnE:IIIEU: Oh no. that is not so. J \Yell, they lmY:' t<J " rery large c-xtcnt. I speak more particularly with regard to the Brisbane Gen<'ral Hospital. As far as I am concerned l should like to sec the endowment increased to what it was preYiously, and I trust that an effort will he made in that direction. It is not a fair thing to put a tax ou a comparatively small portiou of the iuhabitants of the State for this purpose. If a hospital tax is imposed, I ~hink it would be better if it came through the mcomp tax. l The PREMIER: Even that would bP up.)ll a n1uch largPr number of people than bear the cost now.] Certainly it would. The prt>scnt system of yoluutary contributions falls upon a Yery few people in the State, aml though a number of then1 arc very generous in their subscriptions, the amount of the general contributions to th0 Brisbane General Hospital is only about £3,000 a year, and that is not sufficient. I think we haYe too many institutions of this kind in the city~we have several hospitals that might be combined with the Brisbane General Hospital. I do not approve of any system of taxation which will tend to preyent people exercising their chari­table feelings, such as would be the case with a direct tax in place of voluntarv contribu­tions towards the hospitals. Son'lething has also been said with regard to the proposal of the Government to introduce a system of light railways. I hope that the Government will take this matter into their earnest considera­tion, as there are several places in my elec­torate where T am confident it would pay to build light railways-for instanc<', a feeder to the Cleveland line from Mount Cotton and Redland Bay. I am of opinion that there should be som_e . amendment of the present system of prov1dmg work for the unemployed --that is the system of employing them to destroy prickly pear or clear roads. To st;nd. mm_1 to clear roads in any particular d1stnct ts calculated to interfere with the system of people making their own roads under divisional board adn:inistra tion, and to open the rloor to corruptwn, as we shall ~1ave member-; pressing the Government to extend this fayour to their own particular electorates. I shall certainly enter my protest agamst anythmg of the kind, unless the Go­vernment undertake to send a gang of men clown to my electorate. \Yith regard to the Supreme_ Court bench. if an extra judge is to b<' appon:ted, I hope he :vi!! be _a gentleman of very htgh standmg. \1 e reqmre a man of e 'i.perience and high standing to sit with those gentlemen who arc already on the bench. I ,hall not further detain the House, but shall conclude by thanking hon. members for the quiet hearing they have accorded me. (Hear, hear!)

7\Ir. GRAKT (Rocklwmpton): There is one Bill which I think should haYe been included among the measures to be introduced this session, and that is a Bill to stop the long­speeches that have been made, particularlv by hou. members opposite. \Ye have ha~! speeches avera,<!ing two and three hours. I make an exception in the casP of the excellent speech just delivered by t.ho bon. member for Log-an. It is very seldom indeed that he inflicts long speeches on the House. [Hon. D. H. D.HRY:\IPLE: Are you going to practise what you preach?] I alv,av, do. There is one feature in connection ,;ith the speeches that is rather significant. \1-e have had speec~1es from the. other side. not on particu­lar lmes of the Goyernment policy, but on

J.W~r. Grant.]

292 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Rep1,1J.

two or three itenJS \Yhich are matters of administTation. a~, for instance, the man named JmlE's, Dr. :\Iaxwell's appointment, and the Public SerYice Inquiry Board. Real!;' t.hese are all matters of administration, and not the Government policy at all. [Hon. D. H. DALRY)IPLE: Where is their policy?] The policy of the Government is enunciated in the Governor',; ::lpeech, and it is such a policy as has never been put before this Chamber pre­viously-a policy of honest administration­(Opposition laughter)-a policy of progress: a policy of extending the franchise to the people; a policy of finding outlets for the in­dustries of the State; a policy that the late Philp Government were certainly deficient in. Then there have he<en one or two rather sig11ificant ~peechf':' by hon. members on this side of t-he House----rather injudicious ,peeches, I think, coming from hon. members who wore returned to support the present Ministry. I refer particularly to a speech made at Allora the other day by the hon. member for Cunningham, who owes his election entirely to the fact that he was a supporter of the present Govermnent. He made the assertion there that the Labour party were controlling· the DovernmeEt. LOppo,ition members: llear, hear!] :Hon. 1neml)ers can­not point to Olle item in which it can be said that the Labour party have attempted to influence the (.iovernmeut. 'fhev know well that they can trust che (~ovenrmem, and they have never had any reason to shove them on--the Government have themselves gone in the right direction. ·with regard to tlu question as to the redLtetion of the number of members of the AssPmbly, that item has uot been discus.sed l!y thE' Laoour party. [:\lr. l'. J. LEAH>: it oudrt to llave been.] Tnere are memiJer:-3 u11 tlu:-; side oi the House who are jn Iavour of a 1·eductiou in the nun1ber o:t members. [Hon. D. ll. DALRY~IPLE: Very few.] There are more members on this side iu £avo1u· of :t redu~tiou ia the 11Un1ber of mcmL'er.:; ihau there are rrien:.tber'" ou that :-oide iu favour of extending the electoral franchise. There i,, one matter that l have a little knowledge of, havi:tlg been a civil servant myself, and that i,; the Public Service .Board. '' e hayo been told that tire old Public Service Board did not periorm the functions that . ,hould have bccu pertormed by that board. They were an inept body who were in the hamlb of the :\linistry of the day, and \,ere willing- to do a11yt'1ing the 1\Iinistry re­quired them to do. As a court of appeal for civil servants \Vhu YFcre tyranni::;ecl over by the head of a departnwnt they were practically of no Yalne whuteYer. I kuow of several cases which came be:·ore them in which there was uo hope of redre.-:s held out, ancl of soxne cases in ·which there v as not even au acknov.·­lodgment o£ the cornplaiut ... i notice that :\lr. {)'),_Ta!lcv ha~ ritteu a lette.~_ to the !>re~~ in which l~P tries to prO\(' 'dwt an ab!o body that lJOa.:·d were, m-,cl I think he sho\ved more in<'iyidnality in that lcth~r than he over did a-5 u 1nernber of the Loard. [2'lr. J-. LEAHY: Ho1v do you Lnow ?J I kne\Y him as a civil se.._·yant. [Hon. D. 1--I. DALRY:UPLE: He is a very good mull.] I do not deny that he is a \ery good rnan, but as a civil ser\'ice com­Ini:-;:;:ioner \Yho~·.o dnty it \Yas to reorganise the ser~·iee ar. --:l rc~_iress grievances~ he was not a :·ood man. It has been asked why should \Ve get n1on out· -i.de the service to deal with the matter of reorgani:;:1.tion and retrenchment. The reason is that the Government of the day had no experience, no knowledge of the tech­nicalities of the work done, and they had to get experts, accountants to assist them. [The PREMIER: I know of one ex-Minister

[Mr. Grant.

who would not act on the responsible advice­of an officer of his own department, though he had asked for that advice.] The present Government, seeing how their predecessors had failed to organise the service properly or to retnnch properly, decided to get th<> opinion of men who knew the work which had to be clonE'. Ylr. Troup is an excellent ac­countant-there is not a man in Sydney \Yho enjoys the reputation he does, and what was tho salary paid to him compared with the son-ices we expected him to perform' [Mr. ;:;TORY: He as in Sydney just what he was here-the tool of the employers.] One of thF largest firms in tiuoensland, \\'alter Heicl and Co .. of Rockhampton, got his services to audit theiT book,;, and sent, for him t0 ::lydne_v long before the Public Service Inquiry BoaTd was appointed, and another company, finding their office disorganised, got his assistance to remedy matters. The only member of th0 board whom I kncnv is ]\fr. Brennan, who has been grossly attacked in this House. I have known l\Ir. Brennan for about fifteen years. and I do not know that there is a ·man in the service who is so able in his own particular work as ::\lr. Brennan, or who ha~ .such a Yery high sense of duty as he has. [Hon. D. h. DALRY:IiPLE: Do vou know all the other members of the ptrblic service?] I know as n1any men in the public service as any man in this House; l have met them in their work. and I have meG them outside. No one has made a direct assertion with regard to :\1r. Brennan, but members have said, "It has been said in the street, someone has told me" so-and-so. They have given expression ro some other v<tgue rumour like that, and on that rumour have elected to damage a man ·E·

character. vVe have been told that Mr. Bn·n­nan is a relation of one of the Ministers. [l\Ir. STORY: By a member on your own side.] It cloes not matter who said it--it was a cruel statement to make with the view of damaging an officeT. As a matter of fact, the :Minister to whom he is supposed to he related nevPl' met Mr. Brennan until he became a .l\Iinistc·r. Then we are told that his wife-I think it was 'cry cruel to briug a lady into the matter-is supposed to bf, a ward or niece' of the l\1inis­ter, and again, that her father was sup­po~ed to be a supporter of Mr. Kidston's . ~.\.sa. n1attcr of fact, there is 110 truth v:hat(~ •"Pi'

in the assertion~ she is uo relation whateYer to f1llv of the :\finisters, and her father, whom I kilOw intin1ately, takes very little intcre~:;t in­' lPed in politic"· The only ti1ne I ren1en1 bcr­l1im taking any part iu politics was actiug as chairn1an for ~Ir. Uul~tis as against 1\lr. l(id­s:CJn. [Hon. D. H. DALRY:IIPLE: The member f.1r Clr-•i·mont made the assertion, not this side.] [The I'RIOII!:R: It was repeated in this House.l ~\ll thesp things were Yague run1ours floatiug­about, but that was quite enough to be put into a cuucrete forn1 by other speakers on the other si<k of the House. \\' c were told that tbo board ehoulcl have gone for some of the older men in the service. Now, the older rnc'u-rcsponslble men, and quite equaL per­haps, to their po-itions-have got into a groove , C)mc of tlu•rr1 have been re~pousiblo for the OYPrrr1anJting of t.hc service. and it is an Ullfair thing- to ac;k them to dispense with some of the men that thev tlwmselvcs have been the means of putting- on~ \V e were told that Mr. Ranking -ho•1ld ha\·e bPen employed. There is no man in the State that I have a higher admiration for than Mr. Ranking, and I think he would have been an excellent man for the position; but I would point out to those who are advo­cating such a course that Mr. Ranking had to wait for the position he is now occupying until

Address in Repl;IJ. [7 JUNE.] .Address m Reply. 293

t lw pre;~~ 'llt Governn1ent came into power. The ,.Jlcl Governnwnt, who are now so loud in his praises, did nothing to giYe him adYance­m<'nt in the serYicc. [C\Ir. P. J. LEAHY: That io not true. J

The SPEAKER: Order, order!

Mr. GR . .\:t\T: As far as my knowledge of tlw senice goes, the work of this commission~ t.hough some of it may be wrong-there may h:.-~ onp or t\vo cases of injustice-on the whole has been good work well done. There have been men retrenched who were not of much B<'rYice to the community. I know of one case~ a man who has been enjoying a ,-ery large salary in one of the public offices. That man u:<Nl to go over to one of the hotels about 10 o'clock in thf' morning, get the newspaper, sit on a couch. and throw his legs up over a chair. and spend most of the morning and m<wt of the afternoon in that position. I haYe only got to know he was a public ser­vant. since I ha ye been a member; I used to think he "as a man living on his own income. aud he has only been retrenched lately. I do not know whether it is any more of a reflec­tion on a man himself than on his superior officer who would allow that man to be out of the office about three or four hours eYery daY. In his biography in the library, just come to hand, Sir Archibald Geikie tells Ot a.n Edinburgh lawyer, a very good man, who paid excellent wages, but who required good work from his employees. He used now and vhen to go into the back offices, and if he found a vacant chair he would take out a thermometer which he carried, and put it down on the chair; he knew then how long his employee had been out of the office. If t.hat had been done here, the thermometer would have been very much required in the Government service. There have been any number of such cases. I know of a man who has been getting £400 a year-I do not say he is retrenched this time, because I do not ,,.a11t. to particularise men~and he got sorne 1)upernumerary \Vork, and the officer in charge of the office tells me he was not worth 10s. a week to him. \Ye are told that it was a most unfair thing at a time like the present for the l.~o\"ennnent to retreuch. Une or two metn­bm·s of the Opposition said the Government are setting an example in that v.ay. T;w Goyernment are setting an example. It is :.t pnrely Ju~inc-;s rnatter. 'rhey ca11uot rnect their clebto: why ohoulcl they kc'''P men on' Private firms do not keep men on when they have no work for them to do; any number of private firms at the present time are retrench­ing men. And although it is a very cruel and hard thing to send men adrift at the present ume, l am sure it affords no pleasure to tho l..-uY('l_'illllE'Dt to do it, aucl .it ah ords uo

J"Ul'P to lb to hear of it~ heing done. any hon. member has let a contract to do

feucing or anything else, v: hen it is done, has lw to keep the fencer on ruther than let him Ooo into the cold, cruel Yiorld' [1\Ir. P. J. .LLUIY: Tell us about the increases.] I will teli You later on. There was ono-that of ;yh. 2\Iit~hcll. \Ye were told by an hon. member that he got an increase because he happened to be a Hockhampton man. :::luroly it would be nmch better for us if the Treasurer or mvself preferred a man in Rockhampton rather than down in Brisbane, but, as a matter of fact, I do not know what that gentleman's politics Jf(': hr noYer took any part in politic,. Bm this I know. that he is considered by ·-olicitors and lawyers in Rockharnpton to [,.-. as good a man as there is in the , n·ice. [.Mr. KERR: lVIr. '.r. J. Byrnes said he

•.ms one of the best officers.] The late Mr.

Bnncs said he was one of the best officers in ... the scrYicP, and many lawyers haYe conte to me and said how pleased they were hy the appointment of ::\Ir. ::\litchell to Bris­bane, and that they kn<nv he would proYe himself to be one of the best men in the ser­Yice. As a matter of fact, not only is ho friendly with solicitors with whom he comes i11to contact, but he is friendly with the gen­eral public, who come to his office for informa­tion. He is a ;-ery good judge of land, and in that particular respect he would be of great sGrvice to the offtee here in Brisbane. \'1' e are also told about the pilots in Moreton Bay having a grie1·ance: but that grieYance is of verv long stauding. and it ccnw;-:. y.·ith Yery bad grace from hen. member" on the otltcr side uow ... who are pu:-;hing fon.va.rd thi"' grieva.JJCP: chat when thev sat behind the late Go­Yernment that"' Government never n1ade the slighte, t. effort to redress it. wheu thev were spending money in other respects mo~t extravagantly. There is one particular thing in regard to increases . .._L\ n1erchant makes mistake:::, and OYcrcharge~ and undPrcharge~. He remedies th~ o.-ercharges, but would hG not be just as culpable if he did not remedy the unclcrchargps too; LAn honourable member: \Vas it an undercharge·~] It was an under­charge. I l\:JHHV sonH' of those men who got incn•ases, and they richly deserved them. They ha1·e br·en doing work at a salary ntte~·lv incomrncnsurate \Vith that vvork-work -::hat 1llen Rhonld get about three tin1cs as much nJ.oJWY for; and other n1en \V ere gPtting a Yery large salary for doing work that a boy at £50 a vPar could do. The comm1sswn has remedied t.h~is by giYillg to each 1nan a rate of pay ac­cording to tlw work he had to do. For the firsi· time in tlw history of (~ueensland a man's abilitY is to be reckoned with. not the arnount of noliticul friends or relatious he has got. or St'tl.ioritv. ~L·nioritv ha~ been the bane of the SL'n-ice.~ )Hon. D. ~H. DALRY)1PLE: .... :\.nd poli­tics.l ~\n~! politics. ao the hon. member inter­jects. I11 rC'gard to scn1onty. c .. ·crythll1g else b(•ing equaL sPniorit~· should op~rate. b~t seniorit,v in the denartrncnt and nothing else IS

a n1ost \·icious pri1;ciple. anf~ it has done more th·'n anvthincJ' else to dtsgust :voung aud pu -ihing Jl!Cll \\~t~ the service. I think for about the first time in Qm•ensland the yo':'ng and the pu :hing hnxc uov got an oppf~1'!UIHty to proYe therm·,PlY'-':-. worthY cf tlll' pu~ltFll\. [lion. H. I).-iLHYJIPLE: ~It i:-- a chance for J o!H~:-:.

_.._:\._s to JmH'S. I think it \vas a 111istrrkc to app,~l~lt hi1n: I thluk the GoYennnent were •· had . 1n thaL nartlcnlar rnatter by a clcYcr. plausible :uan. ~and I honestly think it ,~-ould be_ the b('\t~r thing· fm him to be recalled. [Op­position n;cmbers: I-iear, hear !l But ~n regard to .To!les. and in regard to other appo1ntn1ents. no oJIC' can accuse thf> GoYen1n1eut of haY­ing ,giY(~ll the posit-ion to. a suppo_rter or to .a r0bt-ioll of theirs. Every Increase 1n the p~bhc ·•r·-1ce which has been giYen has been gn;en

on ar:conrd: of the 111an 's abilit:'\--. :\o 1nen1ber c.::tn point to any increase or t.o any 1~~\V appointmrnt that has bPen done to grac1fy a political supporter. : Oppos1_t1on lTI_Pillb~rs: Oh. oh'] [:\fr. ,J. LE.,HY: It '' notcnous., I will 1-::e YE'l'V U"lad indPcd to 11 ~.tl' of f'YE'll

one. iliOl;, D. H. DALRY"'1PLE: You 1w.YP heard sin·eral already.] [:\fr. ,J. LEAHY: Every one of them.] Kot a speaker on the other side has •aid it has been clue to political friendship or personal rdationship. [:\Tr. J. LEAHY: Not at all.l All right: the hon. .rentleman will be aL!e to proye. it when hP ;;,oves his amendment to-night. I think they have made a mistake about J ones: but aft-er all it is only a trivial mistake. After all.

Mr. Grant.]

294 Address 111 Repf.ij. LASSEMBLY.J Arltl1·ess in Repl,y.

what is it to compare with the dredges­£200, 000 '" against £500. You might t~ke t.he Beaforth Estate and other matters, whictl hon. members even no\<' admit were mis* takes. But how is £500 to bE comnared with £200,000: [:\Ir. J. LEAHY: It is 'more than that-the credit of the Btate.] The credit of the State has suffered Yery much at the hands of the hon. gentleman who is sittin,, oYer there. Xow. thP credit of the State is taking au UP'':a.rd tendency, and to proyc it let hon. gentlemen read yester­day's Telegraph. In an interview, Mr. \Vill­cocks, the late contractor of the Rockhampton Railv,ay, says that English money has no\\' begun to come into the State to work mines. [Hon. D. H. DALRYliPLE: Because of the Labour legislation in \Vestern Australia.J English capital is earning in owing to the confidence iu the present Government of Queensland. [Opposition memt·ers: No, no !J LMr. J. LEAHY: In what mines is it coming· into?] Into the Chillagoe. [.i\lr. J. LEAHY: \Yhat nonsense.] \Vel!, I have only got 1\lr. \Yillcocks's assertion about the matter-it is in yesterday's 1'elegraph. [:\lr. J. LEAHY: The mortgagees are almost taking possession; it has gone bung.]

The SPEAKER: Order, order 1

:'llr. GRANT: Those who excuse themseh·es are accusing themselves in this particular instance. [Hon. D. H. DALRYMPLE: That is what you have been doing all the time.] Ko­body on the other side has said a word about the Goverument [lolicy They have m<mtionecl o"ly three appointments, which are triYial matters, but they have not said anything about the good things that are promised. (Opposition laughter.) [Hon. D. H. D.HRDIPLE: They were promised last year.) Y cs, they were promised last year, but there \Yas no intention of completing any of the promises. [Hon. D. H. DALRY)!PLE: It was your Gm·ernment.] It was just like an AmPrican who was standing on the railway platform, and the conductor came to him and said, "You must not stand on the plat­form," and he refused to go off, and asked what a platform was for, and the conductor said, .. The platform is to get in on, and not to stand on." That has been exactly the case with hon. members opposite. Promises were made to get in on, and not to stand on. [Mr. J. LEAHY: You have got no platform now.] \Ve have a platform, and a progressive one. For the first time the unemployed have been dealt with, not in a charitable way, but in a business-like way. 'l'here has been an attempt made to bring idle hands and idle lands to­gether. They have been sent to one place in the scrub where there is very rich soil, but which is very inaccessible through the roads not being made to it. There has been a gang of unemployed clearing the roads through that scrub; the land will be increased in value, the Govc·nmcnt will get their money back. and those who are settled there will have means of getting to market. [:\Jr. J. LEAHY: \Vhat about the v·ag<'s the Tnasurer is giYinv'J In regard to tlw Rock-

hampton case the TreasurPr wrote [1.30 p.m.J up to oa:· that the work was to be

done at current rates. f:\Ir. J. LK\HY: :2.-. a day.] ['\Jr. P. J. LKH!Y: lls. a week.] :'-Jo, tlvrt is not the rate. A man was put over thP work cvhom I know well. but in thi~ in ~·dance hP rnade a sli2·ht mistake in undcn·a]uing the v. cn·k that had to h<e done. The Trc--,.surer never interfered with that man. He said, "There is the country to be cleared; I wo.nt it cleared at current rates: I do not want to sweat the employees, and I do not ~want the Government to be sweated; pay for

[Mr. Grant.

the · vork as vou \vould pay for auy work under contr~C't for vnnrsplf." The mPn wc-:.nt there were lrwu vvho had bPPll idlP through no fault of their own-somP of them throu"·!~t bad timPs-and they were not. a:--­strone; a:'i rnen \."~ho had been in work and vd1o hacl ~-E'E"1 !!etting- good food. Xaturally. there·· fo-re. thf'y \\·ero not in a positiou to .earn a~ much as :-otron~, able-bodie-d men, and then the man put over thcrr1 uudcrvaluod the \Y<lrk. But that \Vas 110 fault of the (;oycruni0ur. j ~!r. ,T. LEAHY: 'l'hey appointed the• ,. u::a11, a::~ i11 the ca~o of Jones.j No: lw .a man who has had a lot of experience. lmt m this case he made a sli~ht mistake, and the n1en dlcl not earn as r'nuch a" tlu•y .:-hould haye ea,·nocl, bnt I am happy to say thnt they arc no\v oarniug rPUf'OIIfl:bJe \vage~.

1 L1.I~o.1J.

D. [-J. DALRY1IPLE: They will earn donlhc. 1! l1e will dnuhlc the value of the work.] Xo: i1e will unt chmde the valne of the work. but the mcu arc now geU,ing n1ore accu:stoi:ned to tlH• work. T' iwir muscles are becor.:1in ~· hardened. a_n~l thev will be able to earn a fair wage 'ntll whrch to keep the1n~elves and thPir tan1ilie~. [Hon. D. 11. D.\LRBIPLE: \Yhat do you ea!! a [air wa§re ?l Seven shiUinps a c:ay i~ u f~ir '''age. Son1e r.n0n have earned a, rnuch a~ 1 .'.

a day, while others haYe only eanJ~d 2~. <-~ day. [:\lr. J. LEAHY: For ten houro \Y<,rk.j Thev work as long as they hke. There 1:-- nv c01nPulsion to work as long as ten hour·, The:-~ have families dependent upon them, and not being strong rnen they L'd1l work loug. hour:-­if thev choose. [:\1r. J. LEAHY: All tlw eYidence is the other way-they arc ablP­loodied, strong· mPn.] \Vc•ll, the Rockhampton Bulletin ,-ent a report<'l' down there. accom­panied by the secretary of 0';18 of the labour organioaiions, to make full mqmry mto the matter. He interviewed the men. and hE' found, as I stated, that the overseer undcr­Yalucd the work, and the men did not earn as much as they otherwise would haYe dm;e. In the p>tst what has been the action. of Go­n·rnmonts? \\' c have seen them dolmg out charitv at the rate of two wec'ks' rations for t\YO days' 'work, or getting men to chop a police­man's wood, or something of that sort. That species of charity was of no scn·rce to thcnien. bnt this is not charity. The men are simply getting wage-. and giving good work for the '"' :-t;;es. There 1s no sense of dcgr.adahon about it. ·There is another matter which I am told the Government are taking into consi<;ltrahon_ ancl thet is whether they cannot dense wml' method of settling the 'Western workers. on the land--that is, set apart land on which the shearers can settle. Du~·ing the. off-scaso~ these men ,,·ould then cultivato their land, anc, when the shearing season commenced the v '\'ou1d bf' abl~"' to go out and earn more money. f:\1r. P, cl. LEAI!Y: Let them kill the rabbits.l If the Government can clo that they will do thf' best piece of work that has been doilf' m Onecnsland for many years. At the present tirnc the state of the West is deplorable. There arc bachPiors there who haYT no means of ~.~·C'tting marri0cl, and '"ho haYe 110 horn~' hc:-­(,f anY descriptiOIL If von make aYailabl<' land On which these menL can vvork vvhcn not folkwing their usual avocation. you willsettlP them permanently on the land. There IS onP Bill which I am exceedingly glad to sec men­tioned in the Speech, and that is the Franchis<' Bill. We have been promised that. Bill for manY vears but this is the first time a Gm·ern­m011t "has .; airl it '~"ill stake its exjstence on gdting that Rill through. rMr. p_ J. LEAHY: Tlwy do not say it now.l They make that the first item in their programme, and mean t" "'''tit throug-h. Other Governments have ne,·er ho.d any in~tention of passing such a measure.

Addre's m Rcpl,y. [I ,JUNE.] Address in Repl,y. 295

except au abortive sort of Bill that would r>lcasc neither Consc-rYatiYC': nor T{adicals, bat now for tlw first time in the history of Queensland r'v<;ry adult man and woman is to haYf' on opportunity of taking part in rra 1 ;--~ng tlw laws of the State. 1 think tho long spee·;hos which have been made from tho other side have been delivered with the object of hindering this Bill from being brought forward. [Mr. P. J. LEAHY: You hav~ no right to sa0 that.] That is the reason why we haYC-~ been wearied for hours >md hours listening to speeches from the other ,;ide. They are frightened of this Bill. They cun sec the hand writing on the wall as clearlv as we can see it. They see the result of the federal elections, and they are going to make a last fight against this Bill. As it has been in the past, it will be new rights against old pnvlleges. Some members on this side have had griC'vances to speak about, but after all they have only been trivial ones, and those hon. members forget that in making hostile ,;peeches they are not only foolishlv deluding the other side, but stmngthening the hands of those in the upper House who we know arc hostile to the Franchise Bill. There is 011e Bill which has bPen promised for two years past, but which I do not see on the list. I refer to the Coal Bill, which is urgently needed. In reply to the hon. member for Brisbane North, Mr. Forrest, the Secretarv for Mines said this afternoon that the Govern­ment have recei l'ed about £5,000 from coal­mining licenses in the Central district. I do not think tha.t is good for the industry, and the money could have been much better spent ~n dev~lopint:: the coal-mining- indufoltry. aud m paymg wages to the men working in it. The Bill I allude to has been in print for two .vea.rs; it will a~..;imilate the coal-n1iniug law~ of (.lueensland with those of New Zealand and the other States, and I hope the Go­vPrnment will see their way to bringing it forward at an early date. In regard to the sugar industry, I know nothing whateYor about it; bnt I notice that the men who do know something about it are entirely with the Government. The hon. members for Bowen and Burrum approve of the action of the Go­,-ernment, though the hon. member for :Ylackay, ::\fr. Paget, is at variance with them to a slight degree. I do not pretend to be an oxpert on that question, so will say no more about it. Another matter which has berm alluded to is the incursion of rabbits. The member for Brisbane ?>Jorth, Mr. Cameron. recently made an assertion that the rabbits had reached Braeside, near Warwick : but I notice-. in yPsterday's ('aurin~. ~\lr. Allan ~~~~':'i there are no rabbits within 100 miles of that place. He who is a resident should know more about the question than t-he hon. member for Brisbane North, who resides in Brisbane. I have nothing more to say on this occasion. \Ve arc all eager to seo what is going to be done on the other side. There are all sorts of rumours, and men1bers opposite seem exceed­ingly busy; but they may take this from me. that we are pretty solid oYer here, and therc is not the slightest fear that they will succeed. * Mr. J. HAidiLTON (Cook): WP haY<' li,. tened to the Government apolo"ist, and I think he made a verv bad case. He is not only the Government "apologist, but lately he has appointed himself to the position of Government interjector, because nearly every hon. member who speaks is interruptod by the hon. member. The hon. member also appears to be a clairvoyant, because he can inform t:··

not only of what we have done, but of whn;; we are going to do, and of our motives. He

has just informed us that there is no dang.cr from the incursion of ra-bbits. [:iHr. GRANT: I did not say anything of the kind.] Then \vhat was the hon. member trymg- to pro.-e when he said that no rabbits had been seen within 100 mile· of a certain spot? \Vhut was the meaning· of his argument if it was not that there was "no danger from rabbits? And even if there be no rabbits in a particular pl:.we to-day, we know they travel 60 and 70 ll!lles a year, and therefore, while a partwular prece of territory may be free from them to-day, rt may be overrun in a very short time. 'l'he present leader of the Labour party told us that there were no rabbits at a partict!lar place. because he went. there fl.nd did not .sc·c' any. That proves nothing. I w~s >hootmg on French Island on one occas1on, v.-nerH the-re arC' thousamls of rabbits, anrl I could uot. :-;ee a ~olitary oue, ~imply becau:-~c the onlv timP you eau :-~eeo them is in thf', early n1oi·niug a1~d eveniug. ..:-\s for the_ s~aternc;1t oi the holl. rrJen1ber. to ~how vvhat 1t IS _wor:tn. here is an extract from a conLnuntcanon .:nning fron1 Dalveen-.in old resident of Dalveen reports that rabbits have

been :-:een in that dh•trict lately, atHl that :-t bnrro·w was discovered within :100 yards of thn railway statwn.- ne !-itates that rahhits arc also on the t-lueen::;land s1de of the rabbit-proof fence farther we~t.

Anyone who has had experience of it knows the disa,;ter and ruin that follow on. an mv:;­sion of rabbits, and I therefore ~hmk therr destruction sh:mld be mad~ a naho";a~ ques­tion. They wrll be more drfficult tv anve ot:t than the J aps if once they get a firm footll!;; in the State. Vv'e were also told by the hon. member that the party on this . side were always opposed to a Franchise B11l. That eP!'t.ainl v is not correct. Only two or three years a.)!o this party endeavoured to pas~ a :kranchise Bill, one clause of which,,that grYm,., an extra vote for a family, was obJected to by members opposite. It would have passed bLlt that it was talked out by the present Home Secretary. who moved that the Bill b<;' read :t secvnd time that day six months. It 1s there­fore ab~urd to ::;av that we are not 111

favour of a Franchise Bill. [:\fr. TrRKER: Tlw babie ,, were too bip; for them.] Y ""; the~' did not ~vYanf: honest married men to ,ettle in the State. ?\ow the Labour party justify the placing of this Franchrse B1ll fir~L uu the napC'r by saymg that the ~·-,ult of t,h:s h>p;iolaiion will mean prospenty to che c:ountrv, but from what we have seen of. the present partv in pOYier here and of the actwns of th<c Federal Parliament, I do not see any encourag-ement in that direction. ~Vhat has been done by the present party m . power here. who say they are the repre,,en~atrves of the people'! Since they have. been m power t.hey hasc· ~imp1v been n1arku1g brrlC'. Aud what has the Labour party done in the (,1·!1Pr Parliarnent. 'Take the income tax, for instancE': when the Customs tariff was re­duced by the federal Govern:nent by over £3UO.OOO-and the Federal La:.,our memh,.rs admitted that, their object in enforcmg that redc~ction '·'as to force one of the planks of t]wir party upou the State Parliaments­namelv. an income tax. On account of bad ,ea ,o,1s·, the late Government co':lld not sell lane!; they had to raise money m order to carrv on the business of the country, and they were forced to put on the income tax, out of which tlwv onlv rocei,-ed onP-half of what they had" been deprived by the Federal Parlirrment-£150 000. The federal Labour members, acting in that way, injured the men whom they a'•sumed to bC'nf'fit. for as much

p~ticl for kerc. euc and tPa nov· a.:-> was paul

JJlr. J. Hamilton.

296 [ASSEMBLY.] Addnss in Reply.

before, a::, the kero .... cne con1r 1nie .... increa~ed tho price of kE'toPenE> hy thE' amoLtnt of dun put on. Only the nnddlemaa ,1ud the rne;­chant benefited through tea: thPrefort'. the po01er cla"es have to pet~· as much a.' prc­nously. The State lo3t the reYenue it u~ecl to receive from those articles, and the inco;ne tax had to be imposed. That is the statosman­,hip of the Labour partv iu the Federal Parlia­ment. Thf• :\linister for' Agriculture stated that there wen• m~Iy three i~nlictrr.onts against the pte:-:ent ,Party 111 power; If that i~ so, that i~ ju~t three timc•s tho number of causes which in­duced htm to walk over to the other side for -~ve kno": what caused him to do so. Du'ring .tasr sesswn the late Government wanted to raise £2.5, 000 to pay the interest on £750 OIJO wor·ch of 'Treasury bills, and they tried to pass rc·so!utwns wrn?h wonld m~an a tax on capi­taltsts and '· Palthy comptme>s; but merchants and men of that class in Brisbane endeavoured to g~t the a;";~istancf' of tho:-;e person~ rcpre­seur.mg th,,m m the House to relieve th0u1 of that tax, and with the assistance of the Labour party they managed to ward off this £25.000 from the rich man. The Minister for Agricul­(un' voted w•th the late Go,-ernment in im­posing tho poll tax, and yet he voted against the same Go,-crnment when they proposed to tax the wPalt h.'' man and the capitalists. and that ts why he walked on'r to the other side. .:\u \', grent efforts have been made to trv to show that :\Ir. Philp has been verv n;uch ·ChBgriuccl at being clcfcatcd. but I will show that Mr. Philp never sought office. \Ye know that brr Hugh Nelson first asked him to take th" Premiership and he refused. and then .:VIr. Byrp{~S vvas a ~keel. In lVlr. Dickson's ti1ne he agam n·fnsPd to take the position. and when JVlt·. Dwksou vvas cjf'ctcd frorn office, we kno\~' tha1. ,,-e had the :~TeatPst difficultY in I(Ct­

l_Ing l11m to -~onset~! to lPad thP party. ,._;ll .<cvera; o.:ca~Ions :-.,,.r }__.;dn1unc1 Barton tl'-ierl n~o~t '1Pe.r:-<i~teuti:v tc: get :\ll'. Phi1p to joi1; h1,, Cabmct. ancl rf he had done so. ho would have got double the salary he was gettmg as Prennor here. I also remember that once the pr_E> 'nt Labour party tried to got ~;~un as Pec rrnr~:·. and he refused. [The 'lllEASUilER: \V hen was rhat ?] At the tin:e of the formation of the Dawson i\Iinishv. \\ hen the present Government took ofilce many great things . wore expected of them, and to form some rdeo, of what might have he -n expcctt:-d ()tH' l.;H!-;t luuk at ,, hat anothC'l' Government die! under similar conditions T<1ke the G1~iffith Government, which su1~~ ~rented the Morehead GovErnment in 1890. / ha;t Government met for the trancaction of nu mess on th_e lGth September; they brought down a finanmaJ statement, and passed twenty Btlls of great rmportance. Now, this '\linis­tr:· met. the H~:mse on the 24th September, ':';rder sumlar Circumstances. [The PREMU:R: "'-'o; the same party >vas in office.] No: it is absurd to say that the same nartv was in office. :r~lf'I'<'' -, Ec:" a lon·:--e•· intC';TEH'-;lUln: hut HtPll :\h1n~ter:-:. had to ~;,·_-,.,_.k y-·-election. \Yhich tho pr<.:·~ent C-oYPrnnY'nt heel not. l.,.-et. thcv ra~secl twenty Bill:--. and ha.d the :\lorr::a;l Uc>:erurnPnt cnJ1~ist0cl ot Pc1nal1y able :-:ta,tr>:-.­~Pn, they ''"c~1IJ ha ,~e aetc'cl iu a tntalh­diffcrt'nt nwnncr to wha.t thev did. TlH~\­franticall,Y raY~::)cl at thC" lat~· UovE'nHnen~t for not havinp:· introduced n10a~ure which they ~aid wuu]d giv0 f'Inployn10nt to thP unen1plov1?d cla:-<:-~e~. 'iYhc. thL~v ~did. 1vr-'· .. ·0. sta.rving t1u~ land. Ou~ would haY<' imagined, th0refore. that. direetlv thov-­thP LalH .tr party-·-Wf'rc- i1~ po·,\·er. the-'v \YO~ld ha,,e introduced :-·orne legislation whic.h ,~:ould prove thf' ~alvation of the Btate. and vvhich

[Jlir. J. Hamilton.

would be the means of keeping people from starvation : but instead of so doing. they piti­fully pleuded that they load not time. although the Griffith ?.Iinistry. under similar circum­,tanres. found ample time to pass a large amount of legislation. Tl1e Labour party blamed the late Go.-ernment for I'Ot baYing put a larger sum on the Estimates for hoepitak and predicted that the hospitaL,; would be clo:-.cd. and that there \vould be n1ore mi.-;ery and ~ickne.s:-;; and yot vvhen thcv took office the.y refused to increase these .-otes by one single peuny. The late l+overnment's action was juotified, for they thought that the amount on the Eatin1ates was ~ufficicnt: but the present GoYernment had no such justification. becausn they expressed their belief that the amount ,. a, not sufficient; yet they coolly pa,secl tlw E~tiina tes, and refu~ecl to in ere asP th0 yotc by one sixp0nce. ThE'n ag·ain. they objectforl to the reduction nf the enduwnwnt, to local ant.horities, the pre~ent 1.\·pa.-;urer .:Jayiug t.hat. by ~o doing in these hard tin1e~ th~ l"pendiug· po\\ er of tho .. e bodies would be decrc,ased. which would mean that therE' would be more unemployed. Yet when tlwse Estimates wen' left. to them to pass. they !Jot only refused to increaso them by one singlej penny. but thP Trea:-,urer decreased thE-Y sp0nding power of tho·e bodies still furth0r by making them pay up at :;;hort noticP. Thev cried and gnasl!E>-d their tPdh at tht>. Estimate' of the late Go­' c"nment. yet when t.hPy attained power thE':V did not make' a single increa·-2. \Yhen the• ]at<> Government introduced the Stamp Act. cncry member of the Labour party objected to it, and I recollect that whE'n the hon. n)err1her for l~urke n1oved au an1eudment the whole of the Labour party voted for it. The whole of the members of the Labour party objected to that Stamp Tax Bill; yet the first thing they did when they came into offic:' was to re-Pnaot the Act. Then again,

they found a Rabbit Bill in th0 [5 p.m.] Home Se-cretary's drawers, and

thev re-enacted the Rabbit Act also. \Ve all n;collect that 1vhen the late Go­nrnment introduced an Income Tax Bill the Labour party furiously denounced the taxation of incomes under £200, and the present Trea­surer stated that it •ras one of the grossest outrages he had ever heard of to impose a poll tax on men receiving only £150 per annum. One after another members of that party rose to testify, and they stated that an ~xcmption of £200 was one of the planks of their platform. They moved an exemption of £130, and then an exemption of £100, and we know the result. Last year, when the drought had broken up, and everything looked prosper­ous, and when the deficit was not one-half what it was the previous year, the le1der of thA Oprmition Lhought it a correct thing to support an amowlment introduced by the hon. n1crnher for Fassifcrn, Mr. Jcnkinson, for the relief of men in the receipt of incomes under £150, but every member of the Labour party Yoted r gainst that amcndrnent, and for the i1:1position of the poll tax. The hon. member for Fassiftrn then n10ved to exempt salaries under £100, and that was supported by every "10mbcr on this side of the House. but the • ·hole of the Labour members voted for the ··8ntinuation of the poll tax, their sole argu­ment being that the state of the country would not s'.and any such reduction in the revenue as the passing of that amendment would in­volve. If they believed in that argument at a time when prosperity was smiling on the. iand, then they must have been guilty of the rankest hypocrisy the previous year, when black despair faced everyone in the country,

Add1"e's in Reply. [7 JUNE.] Address in Repl_y. 297

when our flocks and herds were dying and no crops were being raised, and we had a deficit of between £400,000 and £;)00,000, when they mgued that it was unjustifiable to impose an income tax. Certainly they introduced a mc•a­sUI'e last year to exempt incomes of £52 and under, but there is a provision in the present ~lcct which Pnables the Commissioner to exempt persons receiving a salary of that amount, and the process is similar in each instance. Ac­cording to the proposal of the Labour party, ._· man would have to send a statement to the L'ommis,ioner to the effect that he had only £52 a year, while under the existing Act he has to intimate that he cannot afford to pay the tax. The Council was attacked for refus­ing to pass that measure. I recollect the reasons the Council gaye for rejecting it. They stated that the measure was simpl:c fire­works, and that had the exemption been £100 they would have voted for it. Mr. Gibson 'tatc'd that under the measure as introduced b,- the Labour party there was one place that he lmev, of where :zoo blackfellows would b.e .exempt, and not one white man would hP­c•xempt. The great objection the Council had to the measure was that it would only benefit tlw blackfe;!ow, and not the white man, and l helio,~e their rea'3:Jn ;vas a correct reason. This year the Treasur·d is going to poll tax rnen receiving inco1nes aboYe £100 per annum, though he told us only eighteen months ago that he was pledged to exempt incomes up to £200. and altht)ugh he said he could save £-!00.000 :or £'iOO,OOO by retrenchment. [Mr. ,J. LK"HY: £'ili0.000; he ,.aid it twice.] I aiel £'00,000 or £500,000 because that state­

ment \Vas 1nadc t\H) years ago. and we have hacl certain retrenchments since. and I wished 1n allov- an n1nplc margin. \Vith regard to the Elc·ctoral Fr:~_nchiso Bill, \Ve haYc been in~ formed by I\Iinisters that that will be one of the first nH ~sures brought forward. and that if it is not passed by the Lpper House they ,,-ill go to the coLmtry. This proceeding is \'<cry illogical on the part of the Labour party. If they belie,-e what they say. that their reason for this is that the people may rule, so that ],oc>"islation mny he passed which will benefit c\, m, jhcn now th:1t they have the opportunity r:_e;· shuuld pass tho .. o measures which they "ulltcnd are desired, because they say that they are the rcprl'senutives of the people. "Why : lo they not pass this legislation, and then in­t ,,rJuco their electoral measure, and if it is not passed, appeal to the country? Y car after v •ar they ha ye told us that the country is dyi'1g for certain legislation to stimulate its industries and give employment to tlF people, ',mt now, instead of passing that legislation 11·hich they have said is urgeutly required. they propose first of all to go on with an Electoral Bill, and thus delay the alleged urgent legis­lation. ·with regard to the question of woman ,affrage, I find that two years ago the Secre­tary for Agriculture said in this House-

l think H wonld ·he a:1 improper thing to nsk women to t'lltC'l' thi::; Ohawber. wlH''l'C they vi'onJ.rl br k(•pt away from their hou1e.;; nutH au ltllLtrthly honr, as hon. member~ have been e01np :lled t.o do on ~evcnd occ~t­,..;ions. Therefore, I think 111nt nntii lhe 1romen of Queenslar:fl demonstrate th~t tlwy wnnt a YOte. and that ·we arc Hll;.w;n~ed tha.t tllc•.· shonld have an opportunity ·of .sit tin~ in this Hon~e. it wonl(t be mnch bett~·r that the portion of the Bill conferring the franchise on women shonld hA clindnn.tf'd. In ~';e,v zc- ·llanct at one rime, they eonfcrred t11c fratwhise (,n women-mo1·e vartienl~t~ly in comwntinn "~i'l'ith mnnieipal mattc·rs. and after the le.gislat.ion passetl. a lady took her seat in a mn11icipal eunncil, and as a natural consequeuf'e, she was raised to the llUl.Yoraltv, bnt. the rcsnlt was a mo~t ;ll)ject failure. The ihing 'nt" too achanced-too pro~

gre:-sive. If the Bill gets into committee I shall do mj' utmost to eliminate the itlea of the franchise heing con· ferred on females.

Those arc the hon. gentleman ·s sentin1ents on woman suffTage, but now he considers the matter of such importance that th0 Govern­ment should go to the country on that measure. There al'e I\Iinisters ancl :'llinisters. I recollect that whmr the late Sir Jamcs Dickson found that he could not support Sir Samuel Griffith, hie leader. i11 his land policy. he rcsign~d, Sl_LY­ing that he could not in honour rcmam w1th a l\IinistrY which was carrying out a pohcy he did not believe in. And when I. as Government ' whip." told Sir Thomas 1\fcllwraith that he would be beaten on the Land Grant Railway Bill if h8 went Oil with it-. lw repli0d, '"Hamil­ton I would not r0Inai11 in office t2n minutes to car;y out a policy I don't, believe in." During the present se"ion many members on the other side haye e11deayourcd to conv8y the unpres­,ion that the burden uuder which we are stagge~·ir~g is due to the action of rnernbel!·s on thi~ side of thl' House. As a matter of fact. had it not been for rnernberi:l on this side we should have been staggering unclm· a larger debt. One of the principles of the Labour pan.v is that all milways should be bmlt and owned hv ihP tOtate. If that pohcy had been carried ,;!lt. and the Ghiilagoe Railway had bPPll cou"trueted bv the GoYernnrent as h~~-- me m l~ers advocated three or four sessions ago. it. would haye added con:3ide1·a.bly to our de'1t. I rcr •lhoct that the present Premier, :'llr. :\lorgan. tried to get £50\J,llUO expended ou the cia ,·ata, a.nd the ho11. gentlernau actLmllv ¥:ent to the late Premier. almost with tears ii1 bi.s eves, af:king for n1oney to be spent in another direction. Thai (:xpendiiure was cbje>"ted to by members on this side of the HoLlSe. TlFn the hon. gentlen1an and the members of the Labour party were always strenuouf, supporters of Sir 3anruel Griffith, wh0 was rcspon~ible for the £10.000,000 loan, \\o hi eh w-1.s opposed by most of the tne1nbers on this siclc of the House. The leader of the Oppositioa has been blamed with laYish ex­penditure. It is easy to 1nake a ::;tatement of that. kind. but accusation is not proof, and I recoll0ct tha,t tin1e after ti111e when nrembers ou the odwr side \Verc asked to point out in-

which jus:ified such a"crtions they an failc .l to do ,o. In 1899, when thP I-Iou.

H. P~hilp h~carnc Treasurer, he had the biggest surplus thai apy Treasurer had received for the preYiow, eight years. In the follo\vln.g year~ n,, ·ember. liJOO-he be< ame Prermer, and c1uring thP time he occupiPd that J:?Osition the coudition of qucenslancl was partwularly unfortunate. \Ye know that our flocks, whrch about fin• vears bdorco numbered about 20,000,000. we!·e reduced to about 6,500,000, and our herds were reduced from about 6.500,000 to 2,~00,000. En>rything iu the land suffered, aucl ho\Y oJt earth can you expect to have pros­perous fiuancial ~ca"Ons at such a time of de~olation: But in :-..pite of th(•">e rhenornenal a y{;rage seasons, the latP Pren1ier did remark­ab! v ;:ell. "·hen we recolle.:t that in 1902, one of the worst seasons that Queensland ever ex­pl'r.ienced. the GoYcrnrnent Vi'Ould hayc ha? a mrrlus had it not )wen for federation takmg the roYennc frorn the Post and Telegraph Off-ice and the Customs. In 1901-2 our revenue from other sonrces was nearlv £358,000 less than if ,-·as in J 8~9-1\JOO. Deduct that £357.000 odd from the £~31.000 dPficit of 1901-02. and a de­fir:it of onl v aho•1t £72.000 remained. But the fderal ex;wnditure in 1901-2 on the various llf'Dartments exceeclerl thB federal expenditure in~ 1899-1GOO bv £80,000. Put that £80,000 ao-ainst £71.000: and the Treasurer would have h;cl a surplus of £6,000 or £7,000. which clearly

Mr. J. Hamilton.]

298 Ac7dress in RepT,IJ. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Rtply.

indicate·, th::tt had it uot been for federation h<' ',::ould hun1 had that surp]u,. I was not p0rfc-ct.ly certain rny calculations were correct, a l a.m not ·n'ry strJng ou figures) so I \Vent to the ('nder Secrdary to-day and asked him to check them. He did so. ancl found them pn·fectly rig-ht. The public were told, time afb'r tinh'. and hy ::\1inistcrs and others during i-.h0 rccc~ i hai- 1l--wre was no m one\ lrft in the Trensurv. That stat0mcnt has not One scintilla of trnth.. i':-. In 1-hC' Bank of England at the time the Govf'rnmPnt lr•ft office there \vas ;SG7,00fJ: was at call in the Queensland Notional Bank £,1:.'0.000: there was cash in the Tr<'O>Slll'Y to l he 0xtc•nt of £3\!0.000: in the Ho:· ·t! Bank a" call there was £20.000, and 1-hcrc> \verP ftxed cknosits in \·arious banks of £()00.(100. . > that· then• were £1,597,000 available when the late Government. left the 'l'reasury benches. Yet people who have not the c•pprrtu11it,, of lmo•.•'iu ' better. from not being able to get the information \Ve can, are actually told that there was no money left in the r.rreasury, as an excuse for not assisting our industries. \Yhat is the position now? ·when the Labour party took office they had been complaining year after year to the public and to the Press that they simply wished to achiev" officp for the purpose of pasoinr; legis­lation that would benefit. the workers, and the very first thing· they did was to re-enact our Bills and to pass our Estimates, which they had just previously held up to public execra­tion, when introduced by the late Govern· ment. :'\ot m1e of the Bills which they said the people were ear;erly looking- for did they even try to pass. Their sole aim last session was to go home, and this se,.ion what do they propose to do? To let the people wait another year for the legislation which they said Queensland was perishing for. As for the unemployed, of whom there are a far greater number than last year, they say, '' Oh, let them ·.'\'ait for anothPr vear." Instead of legislation to give work tc; the -.;tal'Ying- un­employed, in:--t,f'ad of pa:-;~ing lcg'i:· .. la.tioll to ,tirnulatP the industrie· nf the State, they say, "\lYe will paos the. franchise." And why'! They know very well their political promises have been unredeemed, and they wish before trial to get another term of three yeaTs' office. But the people are tired of the promises. I heard the member for Burke, interject some­thing about the action of the Government, and that he dissented from it; but I am afraid he was not sincere in his di:·•sent. That remark reminds me, that not onlv have this Government failed to1 introduce' leg-islation, but they have drrven money horn the State which would have given work to thousands of men. The offer which was made, to the leader of the Opposition to bnild the line from :1.lmaden to Georgetown was a bond fide offer, by persons whom the Government knew were men who would have carried out the work. Not only that, but it meant the expenditure of a very large sum of money by the· construc­tion of that railway. It would contribute to the success of the Chillagoe venture, which is a great factor in making that "white elephant," the Cairns line, pay. It would keep up the success of both b3- keeping those mines em­ployed. 1t would also tend to develop George­town, which is in a dyiug state at present, simply from the want of dm·elopment, although a gentleman told UR just now capital was longing to conte in. ScYcral samples of ore• havP been sent from Gcorgetown to Chil­lagoc. vYhich proYe clearly that if thf' orr, could be t.rcated thPv \\·0.u1d be- verY Tf'niun~ Nati,-e. ancl thP only. possible way t~ do it is to connect Georgetown with Chillagoe. It

[Mr. J. Hamilton.

\vould reYivify that ilelcl, and probably thou­sands woulcl be working on it. If that offer had been accepted it would have been far better than giving a few men employment to cut prickly pear in ::.lin1storial constituencies. It ,,ould have been remuuerative work and beneficial t.o the. State, yet this ~1inistry. who state their hearts are sore for the unemployed, rduscd to accept it. The hon. gentleman ,,·ho last spoke said it ,., as a policy of honest administration. i have not seen one mstance of it by the Government since they have takPn office'. \Vo lmvo g1ven thorn a trial for nine months, and they ha ,-e produced nothing. I fail to see the honest admini,.tration. I have not hoard ono instance of it. All I sec is that they han' iuterfercd with the interests of justict•. In the Macdonald case they have attempted to take the preroga"tives of the people a\\ay, and also those of the judges. IV e will finish up with the case of Jonos. It is an open secret that the ~iinistPr for Agricultnre is really not to blame. He latciy, of course, said he was responsil.Jle, but it is an open secret that he 1s not responsible. \Ye know Jones was a Labo11r man, and >''Pnt to ::\Ir. Kidston. [The TREASFRER: That io not tnw.l

The SPEAKER: Order!

~Jr. J. l!A:\IILTO::\': It is easy to say it 1' not true.; but I ha Ye stronger eYidence that it is true. I know the. thing is t.rue. I have evidenco that it is perfectly tn1e. J ones stated, "They have gnt to appoint mt'. ,, and he was appointed. [The ATTORNEY· GENERAL: Did he sav that to you?] It is the rJ/e of hon. g·entleman opposite to say it is nntTue. [The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: It is absurd J I know the ~Iinister for Agriculture was g-ot at through the Treasurer. and do we not know J ones '1 The mer<" fact of them stickine: to thif' 1nan, after these charg·e~ which have bPPn made against him. is a disgrace to any Government. It, was. only necessary for them to -vi re to tlw Hall ~1ercantile Agency or the vYhite .:\lercantile Agency, and they would have got the whole of the information in t.wo minutes. 1 \Yill giv~: the hon. g'entleman one case. The manag:-er of \\ ... right rleaton's, some vears a g:c, was :-;ending- some goods to a store­keeper at. the :\Iaranoa. Afterwards he heard that that storekeeper was not good enough to take delivery. and )w wired JonE's to take charge of the goods himself. Jones did so. and stuck to the monev. If Jones had bePll prosecuted he '"-'oulcl t1e holding- a positio11 undt~r tho 'Governrnent. aR he is now. but it wunld haYe been in St .. Helena. \'>'Tight lleaton'~ rnauager then mado cautious ill­

quirie,, among busine.s:;: men and. told t~ep1 what had occurred. aud thev went 1nto shrrcl.;;:s of laughter that auy husine~s n1an in Brisbane did !lOt know Jones. [:\tr KERR: He is as well known as Lizzie Johnson.] I should have thought the hon. gentleman wonld have been~ ashamed to mention that name because in that case I was the only man to take the pari of a defenceless girl whom I had never SPC'H, and one of the reasons I did so was on account of a wire I received from the Bishop of North OuPensland, which testified to the high charactN of the pero;on I championed. It wonld haYc been an unmanlv thmg not to have taken the part of that d'efenceless girl who was torn from a comfortable home. I do not belong to the Roman Catholic Church, but I consicler~ecl it a clisgraceful thing for a man who was u reuegadc, as Dr. R.oth was. a rene­gade from hi· religion. to drag tha~ g1rl from a comfortable' home ancl put her m another place, and lri0cl to proselytise her. f~lr. LPE : Is 1.hat wire pair! for?l I may tell the hon. gent!Pma!l that as "whip " of the party I

Address in Repl;IJ. [7 tTUNE.] Address in Repl,y. ;:gg

was entiUed to send wires, and I sent them for yt•ar,. It vas a privilege of the position. I rehL'Pd to accept the position unless that privi­l<'gewas given to me, and I have a letter from the Superintendent of Telegraphs in confirma­twn of this. The hon. member for Leichhardt thus pronounces judgment on his own party. The' hon. member says-

Thme is one other matter I am by no means l'mtisfied with, and that is the l'etrenchment that is being pur­sned hy the prc~ent Government--a policy of <li~mis::;ing men \Vl:olesale, and rednciug their wagf'~. ~l\Tr . ..\lAx­WELL: H~llat abont these poor selectm·s ·who have not the money to pay these men?] "'rell, a democratiC <;overnment that is so bankrupt in state:o;manship as to tind no other way of improving thP finances of the State than by dismhsing men from the service is a poor ~tate of affairs indeed.

That is a very poor state of affairs indeed, and I quite agree with him. As the hon. member for

Stanley stated the other night, a u;.so p.m.J shilling gained here or saved there

was no evidence of statesmamhip­that ~as not the way to save the country. \Vhy, I notiCed the other day that the Government are :<ctually saving on the price they p>ty for destroy­ing rats. They cannot afford to kill the number of mts they killed last year. Last year they paid £1,000 a head for two Ministerial rats; now they are paying £20 per 1,000. In connection with the ::\Iacdonald case, it is rteallv not a matter that anv man should make political capital out of. (The ATTORNEY·GENERAL: And you now pro­ceed to make capital out of it.]' Xo; I am proceeding to Pxpress my feeling on the question. Had I wanted to mai<e r"pital out of it I could read numerous letters received by me from New South \Vales and Victoria, and which I have shown to members on this side, showing how stirred the heart" of the people down south have been at the action of the Governmellt in reprieving theae people. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: There is a strong

diversity of opinion on yonr own side.] I do not care whether there is diversity of opinion or not. I am expressing my own opinion, and one which is held by the majority of people. I believe that this action has bePn taken simply for the purpose of bringing off another plank of the Labour party's JJ]atform. Compare this with the Kenniff case. Patrick Kenniff was hang-ed for committing murder. A petition was got up for his reprieve, but on the ground that those who signed it did not believe that he was guilty-not on the ground that the punishment was too great for the gr<>vity of the ?ffence. If the hanging of Kenniff was justiable, 1f the heart of the people did not then revolt at the law being carried into effect, what shall we say of the Macdonald catie? In the one case it was man against man-a murder committed in hot blood on the spnr of the moment · m the other case it was two grown people aga:inst .one little girl-cruel, cold, deliberate murder, lasting from week to week, from month to month. lt was slow torture, not murder. \Vhy, the lowest form of animal treats its young better than these people did. And what will be the result of the action of the Government in this matter? If a reprieve was justifiable in this instance, then the Kenniffs ought to have had a testi­monial, and so long as this Government lasts there will be no further punishment for murder by hanging. Hanging is the punish­ment which the law provides for murder. [The ATTORNEY-GE:--;ERAL : 'rhat is not so. Hanging is the pnnishmenn unless there is a reprieve.] [Mr .. J. LEAHY: That applies tu all C[Lses.] I cons1der that the Government have most unjm;ti­fiably and unduly interfered with the adminis­tration of justice in this matter, and I say that unless the public supply some reasons for it or unless the judge recommends it, there is n~

justification for the Government granting a repriw:e. There was no demand on the part of the public in this case that the Macdonalds should be reprieved, and I do not think there is any instance in the history of (~ueensland in which a reprieve has been granted on the initia­tiYe of the ::\Iinistry. I do not believe there is any instance on record where the :'llinistry have presumed to override the opinion of the judge an<l the jury, or unless there wr" wme exceptionally tStrong rnovetnent in favour of it. As the hon. member for Balonne, ::\Ir. Story, graphi­cally put it, we know that in a country like this, where women and children are away in the outskirts of civilir-ation, there must be some adequate protection for them, and that is one of the strongest reasons why the punishment should not have been interlered with in this case. 'With regard to the appointment of another judge to fill the existing vacancy on the benob, it will be recollected how, last year, we were punished for trying to preserve the privileges of the people. \Ve n1ade a strenuous protest against the passing of a measure which took the power out of the hands of the people and grwe it into the hands of the Ministry to use as a epecies of bribe. [The AT1'0RNEY· G E:'-;ERAL: That is not the case.] That is the case. It 1s perfectly true. vVe fought hour after hour in our endeavour to preserve the privileges of the people, and when the Estimates were brought on at ll o'clock at night the Premier said that preserving the privileges of the people was not a ma.trer of paramount importance, and we were made to sit up all night as a ,,unishment for doing so. [The TREASURER: Your troubles about the privileges of the peoplf', J I know the hon. gentleman's trouble' ahont his o .vn privileges. I was saying shortly before the hon. gentleman came in that the appointment of J ones was mainly owing to his influence, and I can quite understand how the hon. gentleman has a fellow-feeling for him-it is a case of arcades umbo. It was said he went insolvent, and could not pay his debts. If that was the only thing-, I would not say a word against him. It i~ generally the good men who have no money. I generally suspect the one who has. In the instan~e I mentioned he took other people's money; but it appears that every additional offence that he is pr,wed guilty of is an additiona! recommendation in the eyes of certain gentlemen on the other side. I wcmder what the position of ::\>linisters would be if J ones goes to the Shanghai Club with the Government credentials and chalks up £100 or £200. Would the Govern­ment not feel bound in honour to P"Y it? If a private person makes another man an honorary member of a club, and that person does not pay his debts, the introducer is bound in honour to pay them. So in this case the Government will be bound in honour to pay if this man incurs debts, unless they send a cable to the effect­" Beware of our representative, and do not trust him .. , In fact, I think we should bring forward a motion that something of that kind should be rlone. [Mr. J. LE.HiY: They ought w have the honour to do it. Any decent Government would.] \Ve had the distinct statement of the Premier the other night that he intends to keep ,J ones. [The PREmER : Where do you get that 'tatement ?] [~1r. J-. LEAHY : In answer to the hon. member for 'l'oowong.J The hon. gentleman is quibbling with words; he is a tailor of talk. Those were not his exact words, but every hon. member will know whrtt l mean. (The TREASCREH: They suit your purpose better.] I do not look upon his words as pearls dripping from his lips, and re~ollect each particular pearl. I recollect the sense of what he said, and he replied to a

Mr. J. Hamilton.l

300 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Repl.IJ.

question by the hon. member for Toowong that he had no intention of r~calling J ones. Another matter in which I find fault with the administration of thR Government is in the purchase of the G lengallan es­tate. It is genera'.ly stated that the persons who wished to sell that estate offered to take payment in debenture,, which were worth about £9;), and that subsequently they got cash, which sntailed a considerable loss on the Government. We ought to get information on that matter; it is very nnsatisfactory to the House and the public. [The PREMIEn: \\'here do you find authority for the statement you have made?] 'Ylr. P. J. Leahy made the statement, and the hon. gentleman did not contradict him. [The TREASURER : Do you conoid er that good enough evidence?] If not contradicted, I certainly do. ~From what I know of that gentleman, I do not believe he would make a statement unless he believed it was true. The Premier and Trea­surer were present when he made it, and it was not contradicted. [Mr. J. LEAHY : It could have been bought for a great dealless-£90 10s.] [Mr. P. J. LEAHY: l do not think I put it strong enough. J I have b~en waiting tu hear several things contradicted. For instance, I noticed the other day a public statement was made by the hon. member for Brisbane South, at a meeting, that the Secretary for Lands had received £200 to fight the Lahonr party, and the ammunition he received be used to get in with, and then went over to the enemy. [Mr. J. LEAHY: That is what the Turkish admiral did.] Yes ; it is the action of a. Turk. [The TREASURER: Is that an >ther thing yun have heard?] Yes; and, more•wer, I believe it to be true. I have been informed by a gentleman in whom I hnve every confidence that Mr. Cameron stated he gaYe tbe money, and that he was apwoached by Mr. Philp, who a,ked him to give it.

The SPEAKJ!~H : Order, order!

:Mr. \VATSON (Cunniny/wm): I hacl intended at the commencement of lllY speech to ask for consideration from both side,; of the House, this bei11g the first Address in Reply on winch I have spoken ; but, j ndging frorn the exprel-lf::ions v:hich have been given utterance t() by some hon. members on thiti oide, and by the action of others in the past, they are evidently sorry that it is my first, and they will try and make it my last. 1 should have expected some consideration, but, having been attacked beforehand, that mu't g-o. I am not afraid of beinc; attacked, but wheu a few words uttered by the hon. member for \Vide Bay have been given a significance which WJ,S not intended, and to which a very extensive meaning has been givPn by hon. mernbers opposite, one 1nigbt rea~wnably ask for con:5ideration, in ca.~e he might not express bim><elf with absolute clearness. There is one thing that I think the House is to he cornplirnented upon, ""tnd that i:5 sou1ething which bon. members on the other side, when they were on this side, were always asking for. In speech after speech they urged that a consti­tutional Opposition shoulcl be formed. They said that the Opposition always seemed to Le composed of two parties, and that that did not lead to effective work heing done, either in criticising the Government or in any other way. "'With rPgard to the Speech, I can see very little difference between it and previous nttere~nce" from the Throne. It i" practically identical in terms with other Speeches; the same measmes appear on the paper, and at the close of the seo­>lion no doubt there will be a great number of ~laughtered innocents. The Speech has probably been written by the gentleman who wrote it before; for really I cannot see any difference between one Governor's Speech and another.

[Mr. J. Hamilton.

There are, however, traces of a divided opinion in the present Speech. There is no doubt that the Premier has one idt'a of things, and as far as we can g.>ther that is right, but evidently there is another opinion elsewhere, and that appears to be arparent in reading the Speech. The Go­vernment have been accused of acts of maladminis­tration. and the first thing taken exception to by many members on the other side is the appoint­ment of the public service inqniry. To a certain extent I think thfl Govert~ment took a right step when they appointed this board. Some peopl~, in a jocular sort of way, urge that the Under Secretaries might have reduced. the expenditure still further, and if they failed to do so they would have to pay the penalty, but in the selec­tion :Jf members to form this commission 1 say the Ministry did the right thing in going outside the State t<J get two thoroughly impartial men. Of course it was necessarv to have une from Queensland-one man who knew something of our civil service-but I say it would have been much bettet· if they had selected a man other than a junior officer. 1 believe that the selection of the two outside men was made at the Premier's insti"ation, and there is no need to ask at whose instigation this junior officer was appointed. That is perfectly clear, and it shows that in matters of administration there are divided opinions in the Ministry. [The P REI.IIER: You are quite wrong.] I can see as far through a stone wall as anyone else. In the report of this commission it is clear that some terrible mistake• have been made, and it is probable that before long some per­sons who have been called upon to resign in consequence of the recommendations of that commission will have to be reinstated. There is the case of :i\Ir. :Fryar, the Inspector of Mines. I believe the late Ministt·y thought of retiring him, out the miners protested. [Mr. RYLAKD: The mineowners, you mean.] No; tbe working rrliners c l.rtne in a deputation and asked that hh; ser~·ices should be retai!ied. [An honour­able member: How old is he?] He is seventy­six ye"rs of age, but be is stdl a capable man, perfectly able tu perform hi• duties. He worked in the mines for year;;:, and he has such w\)ndel'­ful loc.tl kno·.dedg·e th>tt if his services are not availed of again, it will take HOITlB years before we shall be able to replace him. Then take the case of :i\Ir. Mills, who has been retrenched from the Anclit Offic~. I believe that a terrible mi,;take has been made in retrenching him, and I ,;ay that the last appointment IJ:;· the previous 1Iinistry tu the Auditor-Generalship was an in­justice to Mr. Mills. If he had received that appointment, his efficiency and long standing in the service would have entitled him to prorr,otion to the position of Auditor~General of the Comrrwn wealth, which he would prac­ti~:tlly haye had a lien over. Then there io the otse of the dockmrtster at the South Brisbane dock. This man has done his work well for many years, and I can assure the House that there will be a great difficulty in finding a man to fill his place. [The PRE:lliER : None whatever.] Very well; but if the man in that position does not exercise the greatest care, it may happen that there will be seYeral actions for heavy damages against the Government in a very short space of time. I think these are some of the mistakes the Government have nmde on the recommendation of this commission, and I hope the Ministry will not persist in re­trenching certain officials simply becanse this cmnmission have reconunended it. Now, with regard to Mr. Jones. I met him in Cunnamnlla, and he was one of the rowdiest at the meeting called by l\Ir. Dickson, which was the worst recer:­tion Mr. Dickson ever met except at Bundaberg. I really think that his appoinlment was made in

Add1·ess -in Reply. [7 ,JUNE.] Addnss in Repl_y. 301

error. I would be ashamed to think otherwise; but the Minister for Agriculture was taken in by <t plausible gentleman, and the appointment was m'!-de. I believe that the appointment was made in good faith, but on the evidence which lawyers are accustomed to weigh-and the h<m. member for Toowong gave a pretty strong opinion of what Mr. Jones is-I think this ap­pointment was a mistake, and I also think that the Ministry should, in grace, recall him. [Op­position members: Hear, hear!] He is not the sort of gentleman to represent us anywhere. Although he may send us literary effusions, he is a man who can paint black white and white black, and we shall not be able to !ely on the least information he sends us. \Vith regard to the unernpioyed, I think the Government are to be commended on the step they have taken; but 1t is doubtful whether these men are doin'l" the very best work in clear­ing land of prickly pear. [The THEASURER : They are not all doing that.] No; but I think this is waste of time and money unless these lands are taken up immediately, and used for all time. I do not think that the prickly-pear pro­blem will ever he solved unless we can utilise this product, and as we have Dr. l\faxwell, who seems to know something about everything, it might be a g•lod step to appoint a committee of expert" to see if anytbin" can be done to turn this plant to profitable use. In some parts of the world this plant is used as fodder, in others a dye is made from it, and some people are of opinion cordage may be manufactured from it. I believe it makes a very good household jelly, and if Cape gooseberries make g<>od jam, why should not this phwt be tried for jelly? Then the unemployed might he employed in making roads, and hon. members will exci'"e me for mentioning a road from B<>onah to Killarney. If this road were opened up hy the unemployed, it would only cost £500 or £600, and in a short time the Government would be fully compen­sated for this expenditure by the returns from the timber trade. [An honourable member : Is that in your own electorate?] Yes. and I can tell the hon. member that it is the most important road I know of. The >tppointment of l\Ir. Tbompson is one to be highly corn­mended, for he seems to take a different stand to other experts. The other experts want a stated time for which their services are to be retainerl, hut he does not. The others seem to he afraid that if they engage for a short term they may be fonnd out, and so they want a lengthy agreement or they will r:o elsewhere. \Vbatever may be the term of l\lr. Thomson'f; engagement, he evidently has perfect confidence

in his own abilities, and he has [7 p.m.] practically intirrwted to the Govern-

ment that, if his services are to be retained, it will be nece"ary to introduce a Bill, became it is useless his preaching to dairy people nnless hiH instructions are carried out. In somA places there may be objections to a Dairy Bill, but it may he taken that eventually the whole of the farmers will be satisfied with its provisions, when they find that by proper adrnini~tration of thern there is a l~rubahility of their obtaining a higher price for their butter. ~.\.t tbe presenr, time smne factories are conducted in :-tn e~xcellent manner, but sotne arP not pro­perlv conducted. If butter of inferior quality in any rPspect is sent hon1e, onr butter will ;,cqnire a. bad reputation, anrl will con,equent,Jy cornmand l1nt a low price in the market. It is, therefore, of the highest importance that we should send butter in prime condition, e,nd whatever little trouble there may he at first in the administration of a Dairy Bill, the farmers will be quite satisfied when they find that they get ld. a pound more for their butter. It

appears to me that a Dairy Bill is of the utmost importance at the present time, and that it Rhould be introduced and passed at once, m order that Queensland butter may not acquire a had reputation in the home market. The cablegram received from Sir Horace Tozer with reference to a previous shipment of butter and the future of the dairying indu.stry is a pretty strong one, and a second episode like that will imperil the industry beyond recall. There is another matter that is of importance to the electors of my con­stituency, and that is the Bill to amend the Agricultural Bank Act. The present Act is merely a sop; it is perfectly useless. ~t is difficult for a farmer to make use of 1t, and no Act will be of any use at all unless it gives some assistance to the men whn are already in debt. :'\ ow I wish to deal with some of the omi"'ions of the Ministry, and shall first refer to the vacancy on the Supreme Onurt bench. I have heard it stated repeatedly that the Attorney-General is banging back for that vacancy. I know the hon. gentleman fairly well, and I say I should be utterly oshamed of him if that were his course of conduct. I think so highly of him that I believe he has yet many years of fruitful service to give to the State. \Vheu he was admitted to the bar, some year or so before I was, I confidently predicted that he would achieve office, and I told him so, and I should think less of my friend if be were to accept a vacotncy of this sort. I should not attach any importance to these rumours were it not for the statements made by bon. members opposite. The bon. member for Carnarvon stated the other day, in answer to an inter­jection by the Home Secretary, that the Attorney­General of the day had the right to any judge­ship that became vacant during his term of nH;ce. I doubt l'ery much if that is the practice in Queensland. You may take the judges at present on the bencC!, and it will be seen that snch a practice was not invariably followed in their nse. In Great Britain the Attorney­General is generally an officer of very long experience, and that is w by it may be a recognised rule there; hut in Queensland the Attorney­Geneml has been frequently pas.ed m·er when making appointments to the bench. Sir Samuel Griffith was not appointed a jndge when he wa.s first Attorney-General-I think the late J\Ir. .Justice Harding was appointerl during his term of office. There are '>tber Attorneys-General who have been passed nver until by long experience the public and themselves have deemerl them perfectly entitled to an appoint­ment to the hench, and I feel positive that the present Attorney-General has the same high idul that inspires all members of the bar. For my own part, I wish to repudiate any suspicion that 1f an office of that sort were , acated and it were ,,ffered to me I would acce1't it. (Laughter.) I am treated with derision by wembers of the Labour party when I make that strt,ement, and I am not surprised at their conduct. l say that no legal member of this House i < really <"ntitled to such an office, though in one Pnse the~· are probably justified in considering that they are. Another va?ancy to which I wish to mll attention is that m the office of the Under Secretary for Public Instruc­tion. ThP lTnder Secretary haR retired, Lnd not before it was time; but. up to the present the vacancy has not been filled. It may be that it has not been filled on the score of economy, but I cannot possibly see how that applies, when any one of the gentlemen who are entitled to the position migbo be promoted into it and continue to perform the duties h<> now performs in addi­tion to those of Under Secretary. I understand that the Hon. A. H. Bar low, the ministerial head of that department, is taking the duties of Under

J1fr. Watson.]

302 Address in Rep1p. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Repl;z;.

Secretary as well as those of Minister. 'l'here is no gentleman in this House or in the other House better qualified to do that than the hon. gentleman. I have worked with that hon. gentleman, and I know that young as I am he cm do better work than I, or any other member in the House. It is very fortunate that we have a gentleman capable of performing the duties of Minister and G nder Secretary as well; but is it right that this appoint­ment should be still kept vacant? The Ministry can deal with it at once if they choose, and it is unfair that they do not fill the vacancy. I have had some exJ!erience in that departm'ent, and I say that there is one gentleman there who i" perfectly qualified by educati·Jn and cultivation for the po,ition, and there is also one gentleman whom it wonld not be ad vis able in the interest of the department to appoint. The Minister told me lately that he had no intention of filling lt while he was there ; but I contend that it should be filled, and that the Ministry Rhould have no hesitati •n in selecting a fitting man. Now I come to the question of electoml reform. There should be ooe complete measure before the House, or there should be three measures, making a complete scheme. Then we should know what we were dealing with, and JYiinisters would also know what they were dealing with, and what they might expPct in a short time to come. The measure to which I attach a great deal of importance is that dealing with a redis­tribution of seats. An hon. member on this side, in his opening remarks, attempted to make out that I am not true to my election pledges. I think I shall convince him before I have done that I am absolutely true to every pledge I have given, though that is nothing to boast of, for the time is very short. I remem­ber that when I was ad vacating federation some years ago there was not a man who got on the platform to espouse the cause but said that by federation we would reduce ihe expenses of State Governments, and reduce the number ofmemhers in the State Parliaments. I do not know that I expressly gave the number, but I was very emphatic in my declaration that the nu m her of members should be reduced, and I am more con­vinced to-day than ever I was that this should be done. \Ve have reduced the number of civil servants, and we have reduced their emoluments. Let us reduce our own numbers and our emolu­ments also. [Opposition members: Hear, hear!] This is not only my opinion, but it is shared by the PrimA JYlinister, wh,J gave expression to it some tnne ago. Last session he stated that the reduction of members was necessary, but now the question is to be she! ved for a referendum. [Mr. J. LEAHY: His instructions have bean cancelled.] I know nothing about instructions, but I know that in the statement the Premier originally made as to the course to be pur­sued he was absolutely right, and since then everyone has been acting in the belief that the number of members would be reduced, and never for a moment thonght that the I:JUestion would be referred to the people. The Labour party are opposed to a reduction of member", and I shall probably be met with the 1·eply that the Labour party have not been pledged to anythtng at all upon this question. At any rate, I am of opinion that we should face this que,tion of a reduction of members and have it decided at once, because if the matter is to be dealt with by a referenrium we do not know when that referendum will be taken. I cannot imagine that it would be taken during the seosion, because in that event members who are opposed to the reduction would be going about tellmg the country to vote fnr the uon­tinnance of the present number of members, and a few of us would be left here to hold the fort. Then if the referendum was taken at the end of

LMr. Watson.

the session, or during the election, it simply means that the question is being shelved, and I honestly believe that if :t referendum were taken, and those who arl• opr><•sed to a reduction in the number of members went round the country advocating their views, the people would be so perplexed that they would say, "Let us make it seventy-two members, and be done with it." [Mr. KERR : Have not the public the right to say how many servants they will employ?] Yes, the public have every right to say how many servants they will emjJloy, provided it is left to their own judgment. There io one matter upon which the people have not been allowed to exJ!ress their judgment, and that is the amount of money they pay to the persons they emJ!loy to do their work. [::VIr. MAXWELL : Y nu get your fees from the Crown.] I work pretty httrd for what I get from the Crown, and I can get better feeK from private individuals. Sometimes return~ show more than they ought, sometimes less. You get the information you ask for, but not really what you want. \Ve are allowin~ the people a referendum which will cost £5,000 or £6,000, and yet we could settle the matter in this Honse without expenditure, and practise economy. I hc;oe, if the matter ever does get to a referendum, the amount of payment will be referred also-" Are you in favour of a reduction of members "--seventy-two, forty­five, fifty-two, or whatever it is? But the lowest number you give, if the people are left to them­se! ves, is the number they will choose. (Hear, hear !) I hope at the same time there will be another referendum-" Are you in favour of the payment of members?" No one has the least objection to an amendment of the Elections Act, and when it comes forward it will probably be supported in its mai11 particulars; bnt I wish to point out that, whether an Elections Bill is intro­duced or not, you can carry on elections without it. There is no necessity to introdnce an Elec­tions Act nor a Distribution of Seats Bill in order to go on with an election. Coming to tbe Franchise Bill, we are told that it is an anomaly to have a difference between the State franchise and the federal franchise, and yet this very Bill makes that anomaly. vVe draw a distinction with regard to paupers and criminals. I am not in favour of giving the peovle in Dunwich a vote, for this reason--

The SPEAKER: Order ! I would remind the hon. gentleman that he is not in order in enter­ing into a discussion of the details of a Bill which is before the House.

Mr. W ATSON: If a vote be given to those perwns in Dunwich, it will be utterly unreliable. The position would be this : The Government would promise them bread for their vote, and the Opposition would promise them bntter ; and then when they changed places the OpJ!osition would promise them jam, so that their vote would always be ag<>inst the Government of the day. \Vith reference to the one adult one vote, this proposition has been before the people for a con­siderable period, and (it is a very doubtful one. Niany of us believe that the wcnnen of the State should be enfranchised, and we recognise that the sooner the womanhood of the State take an interest in the State elections the better it will be, but judging from experience we are in doubt whether women really reqnire it, and whether they will exercise it. Only .J7 per cent. voted in the recent federal elections. \Vould it not seem to be a fair provision to make that unless 50 per cent. of the women of the State voted the womanhood vote should not be counted. [Mr. DG~SFORD: The majority will vote.] \V ell, if you are so satisfied that the majority will vote it will count. [Mr. DUNSFORD : Should that not apply to men also?] If you look all the records up, you will find the majority of men do vote. I want the

Address in Repl,y. [7 .J UNE.j Address in Repl,y. 303

majority of the women to vote because then we arrive at the will of the m,tjority of the people. If women do not want it we guard against a few of them ruling the rooet. [Mr. Dm;s­FORD: Make vnting compulsory.] \Vhat does the bon. gentleman mt~m by that? Lots of people would IJ<>t be bothered having their 11an1es on the rol1, because they won't vote. \Vho will compel them to vote? \V ill the C;tndidates, or anybo<iy else? A great number of people don't want their names on the roll and would never have th"m on. I >tm prepared to support one adult one vote--[An honourable member : One value ?]-on the bash; of one vote one value, one equal voting power. As a representatiVe of a wealthy constituency, in which every man in it, by hard labour, has acquired something, or 'hould have acquired something, I say that thl'se men are entitled, by right proh>tbly, to more weight in the councils of the country than men who have nothing. But we are prepared to let that go, and make BVerytbing on the population basis-one adult one vote. In that elEctorate, if one adult one vote be granted, there will be 3,000 or 4,000 elec­tors at least. But there are variou' electorates in the l'\orth where, if they hnve the women's vote, there will be GOO, 700, or 800, or up to 1,000 Blectors on the roll. [An honourable member: 10,000.] \Vhere will there be 10,000? [An honour­able member: On Charters Towers.] Charters Towers will be represented by two men-one for every 5,000 votef', yet electors in the West or elsewhere will have equal voting power in this Assembly, which i" not right. vVe start on the proposition of population basis, and we say further, one vote one value, and then, when you push it to the extreme there is something wrong. It is the premises you start with­population-that is wrong. \Ve say, carry the thing out logically and let a man whatever he is have some voting power in this House as he is, wherever he may be. The hon. member for Barcoo said, during the course of the debate, that bricks and mortar lmd been represented hitherto. If you are going on the lines you propose you will not have bricks and mortar, but you will have wide acres of the \Vest, treeless and barren places represented, and I doubt very much whether this representation will be better than bricks and mortar. \V e listened to the speech of the bon. member for Brisbane )/orth the other evening, and comparing that hon. gentlemnn's speech with that of the hon. member for Barcoo, I think that bricks and mortar are superior when it comes to a question of ability. [::\1r. KERR : i\1r. Cameron was de­feated for the :'\Iitchell and the Bar coo also.] Suppose the Franchise Bill is passed, and you give the privilege to every man and woman to ,;:et on the roll-you rlo not trouble with an Elections Bill and d,, not bother about a Redis­tribution of Seats Bill-then all the women who wish to get on the roll can take the usual steps and get on themselves. \Vhat woman will get on the roll? We ha;e not the least doubt as to what interest will be taken to get' women on the roll. It will be left to electoral organisations, and what is more, overbalanced by the votes of the women who h:tve sought to get their names on, whereas many women will not have taken the trouble. That is the danger; it seems to me as clear as the day. \Ve are told the .Premier is urged by the L;;bour party to bring in this measure, and make a namA for all time, and that will be the end of it. [Government members : Hear, hear !] The Premier will bring this measure in, and his :\Iinistry will be a name a very short time afterwards. [Mr. LESINA: Are you prophesying of coming doom 7] Coming doom in Queeneland will survive you even. I can tell the hnn.

member that this is the party which is elected and supported on that platform~ I am not ~aying one word against the Premier. I arn dealing with r•rinciples which were certainly nevn expected at the time. Of course, I will be tnld that this article from which I read is an irre­pressible irreHponsible cnrnn1nnication. However, it shows you what i.o:; in the mind::; 11f t-iOille of the most outspoken memhers nf the party whom we are helping. [The Hmm SECHE1'ARY: Helping?] I was never elected to represent them, and the hem. member know;; it well. He was up there then working agair'St me. I am just. pointing out to tbe Ministry what I fear. If they can cnm~ince me that the Labour party is not to be dreaded, well and good ; but I am not prepared to take the~ L:. bour party in the House on trust, because there are stronger agenciPs at the b"ck of them out;;ide. [Mr. l{n~ANil : They have the intelligence uf the natiun.] The intelligence of a nation certainly does not find its way to this Chamber, or it would be a bad thing for the nation. [:\Jr. TUHNER: \Vhat are you reading from?] I am reading from a productiun of the hem. member for Clerrnont. (Laughter.) It sayf.l.-

Electoral reform; one~ adult one vote. rrhat is the watchword. rntil that is achie';ed the Labour party rnu~t not, dare not, break aw~•y from the present C'Oalition; they must not. dare not, do anyth1ng by word or deed which shall jeopardise this great step forward ; they must not, dare not, frtlter in the slightest degree in their fidelity to the high ideal of true democracy. iVha.t is 31organ? Is he not exactly what he deems the Labour party to be~a catspaw r Is it to be supposed that Arthur ~/[organ came down from the peaceful quietude of the Speaker's ch}tir to lead the present coalition without the fnll perception that, so far as he was able, he intended to use the Lat.onr party, and that, so far as they were able, they fully intended likewise to use him r It was a bargain, and he accepted 1t. It was a case of barter and sale, " and he acceded to the terms. Is it, therefore, not clear that any defection from the bargain on the part of the Labour party would give }{organ the strongest of moral reasons for breaking up the show?

[Mr. LESINA: Do you say that I wrote that? It is not true.]

Seemingly he is sincere in his intention to carry electoral reform. The Bill which has been laid before the House is defective in some details. but easily they mav be remedied in committee. Get this one measure throuzh, and the future safely may be left to take care of itself. [Mr. LESINA: I say you are a liar.] [Opposi­tion members: ~Withdraw, withdraw tl

The SPEAKER : Order, order ! The hon. member must withdraw.

Mr. LESIN A: I will withdraw the statement. Jlilr. Speaker, I rise to make a personal explana­tion. The hon. member states he was reading from a document. To the statement that I am the author of that p<trticular communication I desire to give a most emphatic denial. I never ~.vrote it; I have no knowledge who the author iH, and never expre~sed any sentiment nor sympatliy in connection with it.

Mr. \VATSON: I accept the hon. gentleman's denial. It is a paper of which he is nominally the editor. [Mr. LESINA: He is not.]

The SPEAKER: Order ! The hon. member having made an absolute denial of the statement, I trust the hnn. member will accept it.

Mr. \VATSON: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I accept it. [:!\Ir. ,T, LEAHY: What is the

[7.30 p.m.] name of the paper?] [Mr. LESI:-IA! The South Bri,/;ane Hemld.] The

extract goes on-Fidelity to the coalition, therefore, mu«t be the watch­

·word until electoral reform is gained. 1n1en that is gained, the position of democracy for evPr is assured. Meanwhile, tne traitors who would defeat that position will do well to consider the certain consequences. I am certainly going to fight this matter until the three Bills are brought in. \Vhen you give

Mr. JiVatson.J

304 Addnss in Repl;y. [ ASSE.;\fBLY.J Address in Repl.y.

one vote one value, then I am with you to the very hilt. I cannot make my position clearer than that. The hon. member for Rockhampt.on said I wtts sailing under false colours. [\1r. GRANT: Y•m were elected as a 11organ c"ndi­date.] Yes; and I am here as a :\Iorg•lll sup­porter still, but I am not a Labour man. I repeat ag-ain that the Home Secretary, the mem­ber for Fortitude V alley (:Hr. McDonnell), and two or three others chased me through my elec­torate endeavouring to bring about my defeat, so you can understand I do not owe any allegiance to the L~bnur party. However, the electors of Cunningham understood thorough]~ that I was to ·mpport the Premier, but that I was to resist all compulsion on the part of the Labo"r party. I tell my comtituents now that this is whiit I >tm trying to rlo. I am here to support the Premier. [Government members: Oh, oh !l I am not supporting the Labour plat­form. Do you think I would hand my electors over to the Labour party '! I would sooner go out of the House. The Morgan platform was this-to get a trial. I was not to vote Labour, and when I saw the Labour party coercin(( the Premier it wa< my place to help him, and that I am Andeavouring to do. H the Premier wants to know his friends let him offer f,,r a moment to dela.y electoral reform. Let him bring in the much-needed Dairy Bill, and what would we find? }!embers around him would leave hnn in a body, and the other side would support him with pleasure. [Opposition mombers: Hear, hear! and laughter.] [Mr. LESINA: The sweets of otfic9.] [~Ir. Dc:->SE'ORD: Are you in their secrets?] I· am not in the secrets of the Labour party, but I know some of them. I woulrl not like to know all the secrets of the hon.

• gentleman. Now, the Governor'" Speech makes mention of the fact that provision is to be made for the construction of light lines of railway. A promise of that kind has been before the House repe:ttedly, bnt according to the details we are given it seems that these light lines are to he for the purpose of opening np fresh .s ·ttlement. \Vhy on earth c:tnnot some provision be made to bring the settlement already open into conjunc­tion with the main lines. \Vhile on the subject of railways I may remark that, we learn that the Cook town line, which we may practicitlly regard a" a hranc\ was taken over by the n1unicipal anthoritie~ and run at a profit. Bnt it seems that when the Gonernmeut has to d<<tl with branch lines they charge such exorbitant, rateR that it is not pns:;:;ihle to make a profit. I refer more especially tq one line which I cnnsider should he regarded a:-; a suburban line-that from \Yarwick to Killuney. [Honourable members: Oh !l Yes; that sbouid he regoarded :.1s a, ~uburban Jine. It i-- tL brnnch linP, and, if it were nP-ar BriHharw, thA ra,tPs ruling­on it would bH rernarkably cheap. But. these are the rates :tt present in force: Tlw length of the line i.;; 28 n1ile~. fiest-class fare 5~. :~d., nnd return }k 2d. ; secon.J-clas.s 3s. (id., and return Hs. 2.1. Compare these rates with those rulillg on the "'uhnrban lines ne~~r JJri::-bane: ~:3. first-c1ass for the same distance, 3s. 3d. return, 1~. 4d. SJ•condR cla:-:s, 2:3. return. 'l'hat line will never be run at n profit. at those rates. [An honourable mern­bPr: \Vho rai:-~d the rates?] .J Ut-5t ~o, and when were they rai,ed? They were rf>i,ed hy the late Ministry at "time when there was very little pro­duce to carry-when it wa~ e,.;sential that a cer­tain amount. of money should be brought into the Treasury. "Who paid the penalty for increasing­those ratPs? Hon. gentlemen opposite, and they went nut of office. How much stronger, therefore, is the feeling against the rates being raised and kept up at a time when there is produce to carry, and things are going on well and looking more hopeful? No wonder

[Mr. Wrd8on.

this line does not pay. \Vho will travel by it? You see cars with one or two passengerR in them, but n('a,rly evP.ryone who wiRhes to get from \Varwick to Killarney, or 11ice Tersd, goes by horse or trap, anrl those who have not got them are often to be heard saving to the passer-by, "Give me a lift into \Varwick." The conse quence is that that line, which, if the rates wen reduced, would pay well, is a loss to the State. Now, de:tling with the question of agrirmlture. The position of the settlers in many places i" much misunderstood. as pointed out very clearly by the member for Leichhardt. All the selec­tors on the Darling Downs are not in a good position. There is no money in wheat, which costs 2,.;. 3d. to raise, if it is sold at 2s. 6d., or 2s. 9d., and yet the great Federal Lahour party talk "bout. farmers putting on two shifts of men. rMr. I<'ooARTY: Yon worked to creRte the federal party.] Yes, and I believe it will come out right. [2\'Ir. ,lE;>;KISSON: It will cnmf' out right when it. is thrust out.j The iarmPr.-havetomeet their bills for "eect wheat costing 7s. 6d. per bu~hel, and, although the Secretary for Agri­culture is not prPs>ing them, yet the rents h"''e to be met. I admit that the Secretary for Land' rAce.ives all the men who come to him urbanely, and treats them well. I have experienced the greatest goodness of heart from the hon. gentle­man; but the farmers cannot make indiddual application to him, and they do not kn .. w their position. They mer<·ly go on the communica­tions they receive from the Lands ( <tfice, and the instructions are to get in all the rt)nt~ and penalties, and enforce them at the risk of fnr­feitnre. I do n)t know whether th•·se are the exact instructione, but that i• what the farmers understand. It mav be that the Treasurer want~ all the money h.e can g.et, anrl is keeping the Secretary for Lands workn'g up to the very collar. This is what I want the l\linistc,r to realise-that the farmers are in ahwluto dread that if they are behind in their rents their selec­tiOns will be forfeited. [The SECRR'l'AHY FOH PUBLIC LANDS: A very wholeeome feeling.] \Vas that the hem. jlentleman's opit,ion when I lwonght before him a farmer of repute, who came to thi' State witb £;),000, and sunk every pennv of it in the land? LThe SECHETARY l<'OR PcBLIC LANDS: They must sho\V sonH-~ good reason fnr not being able to meet theit· oblig-ations.] Just so; I expect that. If they give g-oorl rensnns it is all rig-ht; but this unfortunate mun rlid not kno\V that. He under,.tond that absolnt·c forfeiture would result from non-payment of rent. 1 knew the ho11. ge11tleman \Vf•uld no~ ht ur of forfeiture when once he knew the f:tcte, but it took me all 1ny tilne to convince thi~ ll1Hn that he would con1e out all right. The :\linister treAted him well, and gave hirr1 the ntmo~t ~.-:ttiBfnction. Ilt> :-:~nd: "I will get a report; clnn't lw afraid that your ~elec­tin~l will be forfe1ted." That. \Yas quite right, and I expected it of the hon. gentlenun; but when I t'to\ that1nan over to my office he \ra..;; quite over­come by revu!>inn d feeling and fell into a chair. He honestly believed thAt h · "oultl!oS<• his five or ~ix year~' work, and the £3,000 ht.~ had flunk in the land. \V a::. it any wonder he was overrnrne? 1\Tow, in in~isting ui)()D this penalty of f_j per cent.-~[M r. HARDAcrn;: 10 wrcent. up to three month,.] Yes, they are cumpellerl to pay. The rnan whll knnwR he is in arrPa.r:-: knowH the ]a\v and rai~eR the 1noney hy !''1lll8 nwans or other~ together with the penalty; but there are other casPs where a man ~ends down 5 per cent. per 8nnum as his penalty, and that is accepted. 'rhere are others also in which the rent. onlv is sent r1own, and that is accepted. [The SECHETARY FOH PuBLIC LANDS : Each cn'e iR treated on it' merit•.] Yee, I am aware of that. It depends upon the representations the farmer makes by his repre­sentative to the ~iinister. But is that fair treat-

1 tribute~ say 2~. ~:50. r0 year, toward . ..:; the establit-1h~ 1 111ent aud 1naintenance of hospitals. That ·would

be paid by the person~ who nwstly U~'e these 1n~~Jtntions, :_1nd I dn not thiok they \Votdd object to paying that. [i'\Ir . .b'OGARTY: They do that

HH?ut tn the _fc-:__nner who doe:-; not know, and v,;ho ~~)E'S to con::nderuble tronblo in raising the Inoney and penalty, while other people have their rent accepted withont penalty'? If the farmers under- ' -Jtoocl that the rent would be ac · pted without penalty, rt would be much more satisfactory, and surely after this they will send the rent done down to the Lands (Jlfice. I congratulate che :\Iinistry un the erection of the wheatsheds

already.j Do they pay :!s. f)d. e>Jch? [The THK\.8\IRER: :iiany of them p:ty £1.] I am sure that these rnen would not object to paying thjs 2s. Gd., an11 the men who p::ty £] would not objt>ct either. ~ow, T do not know \Vbat the ]n certa!n places on thn Darling Downs. I

would hke to have F<een many more of them bnt the 'ystem is on its triai. It is doubtful if the very best n,.,ults have been obtained from the experiment. If there bad been no '-'.'heatsheds, tne prob<tbiiity is that the farmers would be receiving Hd. to h:. per but.heJ less for their . wheat. I pointed out, when I fir&t came m to the House, that the only Ratisfactory :-5olut1on of the difficulty \Vould be the holding

i proposeLl antenorrl81Jt in the Loc.d ..::\u~horities :'>cct is, but if there i ·< any amendlllent I hOloO there will be one (111 a 1nati.er vvhich has long been cugnhmnt to the Prernier, and that is, in reference to dur:nru:ying cases, -,dlich are confined to smne parts (,f tbe btate-to one or two elec~ torates in the ::\orth, and sonw in the Centre and m the Soutb. In dealiug with these

of a conference bHt\veen the \Vheatsellers---i.e. the 1

firms whicl1 estaLliBhed thE' wheat auction so!les­ancl the wheatgrowers, to arrive at smne satis~ factory basis upon which these shed,; shonld be ;',t.rried on. In some casf'-1, the construction of the sheds is faulty, bnt that doeonot affect the mutter at h;sue. If a, couference of the :n:tture I sug­e'estecl la.- t year h:1d been held to establish ttle lines upon which the.~e ~beds sl~ould be wnrked, the hrmers wonlrl be 2d. or 3d. a bushel better ,,ff than they are at the present time. l want ' to point ont to the l\lini~ter one anon1aly in cnnnect.ion with the \Varwick shed. \Vrdt from Kill:trney to \Van\ick is tmined at ,)s. tid., and from \Var-.ick downwards ttt lls. tid., that 1sabont l7s., and the ban1e wheat frmn l{illarnt·V rai1ecl through \Varwick th~J t-mme distance i~ charged 12,;. lid. That puh; the matter in thi,; yosition: Tho!:le v:bo put their whf' 1t in the "\Varwicknhed cannot fonvarditawil,y at once, but are cumpt>lltd to kee}J it then:~ for sorne tin1e. I want to show the iniquity of this extm charge. , \Vhen they go to an offici cl they are always 1

blocked b_v being told that differential rates must not be charged. Tbat is the uns<ttisfact<>ry answer they get. In the Speecn there semns to be a,n indication of an hone..;ot effort to st~ttle people on the land-to get people of a certain dass frmn <Jreat Britain. ~~>w, t.here i:-; one fanner who P-arne frmn Great Britain that I know per,;onally, and he is not in n,y electomte. He lS ~ Ifl<ill wh.,. \\!rites to the bmne pnpers, and he 1~ uot one wno runs down Queensland. He i;-; .s~ti~fied with the ach antages here, and with all Ius jJro::;pects, and I 'rvould put it to the l\Iinist.t~y ~hat.. the? should take 8tep"' t,) encourage JmmigratHHl thctt Wl)nld lean to our getting ,;amples of his clas~-rnen who h:1Ve ,ettled on the lands and become pru:-.perous farmers. :Nlen of his class should be sent hmne to go among their fellm\,; and tell them how they get on here, and RUrely Komet!nng 'vvill have to be done tn hR!p :-mch rnen when they arrive here. They ''houlcl be told what bnd., to take up. 'l'he privi­leges oi raihva.y pasR,~d, in order to run allu\-er the country, is in itself of very litde advantage. These people must be to ken in hand when th ·y ani ve if tlwre is any desire to l<eep them l1ere. \Vrth regard to the income tax, of course everyone w1~hes tr1 '1t there wa.s no need to deal with it un,l pos:-oibly ~,ales of land.-:; rn!ght ubvinte th~ neces.,itv for this tax. Bnt a,~ there i~ a big exemption totttlling £.}(),000 or £40,000 by exc'mpt­Ing person~ whose s,darie;-; do not exc.•Pcl £100, a great outcry ha~ been raist~d about it. rrhen the Trea~urer never -;eerns quite sure what his taxation proposals are going to be. Sometirnes the hospitals ttre to be maintained by the land­owners and sornetin1es not. \V e d~m 't know what the taxation propo,;als ar~ to be, but I would most respec• fully make thi' proposition to the TreaBurer: That these men who are going to be exempt from the income tax should con-

190-!-w

nL•tter:-; l h:~ve no trouble at all, and I am not at all concerned with tht viewo expre ·Sed by the Labour pr-uty ; bnt I would point out tn the Prernier that other 1egi~Iation :.:.Loulcl be Cttrried int•; effect. The Lal.rom· party only ,., aut the one adult one ,·ote mea:mre, and they must obey the wills of the unions, ahhnugh they may not be of numerical strength. [:\Ir. LEHINA :That is nut true.j

The SPE.-'\KEH,: Order, order! :\Ir. \VATSOX: It seems to me that every-

thing I ~ay he1·8 iR untrue in the n1ind~ of some hon. members. [:\Ir. LrcsiNA: Oh! You are a lawyer.] But I du not express opinions which I d<J not honestly believe in, and all the ad vice fru:n that hon. member who has just interjected is just wlnt befits hinr.

The HO~IE SECRET_-\RY (Hon. P. Airey, J?t:ndcrK), who ,,,..~1s received with lhvernrnent cheer,, 'aid : \V bile listening to the speech of the hon. member who has just s:tt down I have been amused and interested by a gcrat variety of things. In tbe first place, I cttnnot under;;tand how a rnan can so succes::~fu)ly change his views as apparently tht> hon. mewber is doing. It seerns to me that he only wants to fall on t],, bosom ~f the other sidt', and if I were in bispcsition I should feel it wy bounden duty to g•> over to the other side. LHonoumble member,;: Hear, hear!] I sa~,~ tb1~ ·without ca:Jting :tny reflection on the hon. member who has j'"t op .. ken. \Ve have all onr own \vny of looking at thing~, and if we do not )g-ree in all thiiJgs, well, \Vt' coiJtf'nt ourselves with di .. agreeing un smue point8. T'he hon . !nernbt·r has rden·ed to the fact that the hon. memoer for the Valley and myoelf opposed him at the Cnnnlnghaw eh-'cHon, and thR.t is perfectly true. l n·mcmber that I was ttsked why it was I had taken urwn myself this action. I replied that the hem. member first en me out as a Philp candidate and now he was a :VIorgan candidate, and I bad great fears that he might go back to his old love at the very first opportunity. (H.,ar, hear! and laughter.) I re­gretted saying I hat ~hortly afterwnrdH because I tbongbt i mighc possibly be doing him an in­jn.-;tice: bnt Rince hearing hiH speech this evtning I thin t: that the charge I made was thoroughly justified. (Hear, hear!) The hon. member has told tl" that he c"me ont on the Premier's plttt­form-and the principal plank in it was the re­duction of member·· ; l.ut I will prove that it was no such thing. On page :):24 of Hansard for l U03, th,o Premier said-

_\part, howeYer, but ~omewhat associated with that measnre will be H. measure for the rcdistributinn of srats.

The hon. gentlemrm did not say ttnything r.bont the reduction of member.s. The hon. gentleman further said-

Its object primarily will be to correct inequnlities of representation that have crept into existence ~inf'c the last Redistribution of Seats Bill \vas passed in 1887, and

Ran. P. Airey. J

it may be po::;sihle in lloing that to provide for n reduc~ tion, not on the whole\ale sea.le that onr predeee 1•f'Ors proposed, but for ~onw reasonable l'eduntion in the number of members in this Chamber.

[Opposition membm - : Hear, hear~ You are going back on that novc] Onr ·predecessors pro~ posed a scheme.w reduce the nurd>Er of seat3 by about sixteen. \7" ery well. IJO le~:: reduction would ::;atisfy, it He erns to ~ne, the hon. n1en1ber for Cun­ningham, becanbe a less reduction than t-:ixteen, he thought, would not s~ti,fy the peopk ,,f the conn­try, who are repn sented to have been clarrwuring for a redistribution of ~eats. So that, as a matter of fact, the hon. member came out on this plat­forrn, and I have 111uch pleasnrP in qnoting the speech he made as reported in the ll'urwick l<,;mrninc'· of the 11th October. 1\lO:i---

He pointed out tha't· the Ministry was Hrst to embrace 60 manv member~' of t.ile Australian ~atiYes' As~ocia­tion, tite Premic:r uml three of hh colleagues bein~ members. ·\s :yet the JlrcmL r had not h •.d tillte t 1)

annnnnee his policy. but what ever had h?Cll pnt forth hy him wa~ thorongbly sound. The electoral reform proposed was a measure he would ~npport. If elected he was 1Jrepared to s,q,port the l\-Iorgan :Ministry. as he looked upon a change as pt·oducthe of good.

And he said thi;: three weeks after the l'retuier had !aiel his programme before the Home. He was prepared to support the M()J·g-an ]\Iinistry --[;)1r. \VATSON: Bnt not thA I,abour puty.] ~ov,-, in the nmne of goodne::-:s, what f'en~;e is there in that attit-ude-saying that he would support the :iYiorgan Ministry and that he would not suppmt the majority of members sitting beltind til\· Prernier? The hon. 1ne1nber is a rnost peculi~Lr 1nant and I congrntulate him as being- a lig-htning--clmnge artist. [Hon. D. H. DALRYillPJ.E: It is customarv latelv to have lig-htning changes in this House.] :A.. little bit further on the hon. member says-

If I do ha Ye the ltononr of being ele(·ted, I shall :mv­port the JHorgan:I)1inistry.

{Govern1nent laughter.) There \vm·e twoL''ibour member5 in the Cabinet then-Mr. Kidston and Mr. Browne-and the hon. member knew that perfectly well. I do not blame the hon. member for what he said, but I cannot make out why he said that he would support the iVlorgan Govern­ment and now that he would not support the Labour p~rtv. Then he asks why we do not get on with the Dairy Bi!l at once. The people are clarnouring for electoral reforn1) and yet he wants to ha,-e this Dairy Bill at once~ I am surprised that he did not ask for a milk­and-watel' Bill, or something of that kind, which would be more appropriate. Then he wants an Agricultural 13ank Bill at once; hut "'bllffrage Bill i> the very la.-t thing he thinks of. Thrre is one fr<1ture a,bout the hon. ntern­ber's - peech which is refreshing, and that [, the part in which he approved of re-

trePchn1tnt. in the civil ser\'ice. [8 p.HL] I mnet admit that fm· a moment

I ga-ped \vhen he 1nade thJ,t state~ rnent, because this i::; the first confession I ha Ye heard in this _House from an Inen1ber that ~L ciYil servant~ no rnattcr of grade, ought to g·o. I mention th- ;; because it is possiuly something to his credit. The hon. member wants to know why do not l)Ut things in the referendmn. have jlJ't a rderendum put before the people in and in that roferendun1 there \Vere three f-ets of qut-;tion~ askerl, :-tnd it '• as practictdly of nn u~e bPc::-tus:; the answer to one set of \\·as almost contradict.ory of the :::msWd' nnoth"r ;.:et. T'hat. s:how;-.; that if we are to ha. Ye a referendnm it :must be upon a clen.rer issne, if we are going to have an opinion on the part of the people that is worth anything at all. Suppose we adopted

J-Ion. P. Airey.

A dd,·l' -s in RepT_11.

the suggestions whieh hav~~ been thrown out with l'egard to a referendum-suppose we took a referendum on thi" question ot the redistnbution of seatt-, and ran into i .. another question on the incmne tax-which sorr1e hon. Tnernbers have sug­gested ehould he referred to the people-then another on the Dair0 Bill a" suggested by the h<m. tnernber for Cunningha.~n~ anott1er on r-syrnent of members, and another on tbe Upper House-in the DJIT18 of goodnesR where should we be before we c;~me t" the end of onr tether': I must con­gratulate the hon. rn<·mber in one re,pect: I can assure hin1 that as a poli1 ical hedgehng-dangerous to those near to him and not in the leMt dangerous to thnse a, way frnrr1 hin1-he certainly occupies a proud pre·eminence on this occasion. After all that we have hearrt of what was going to happen, how we were going- to be pnl veri sed into the dust from whence we ~prung, I think we had a right to expect that we should have had a big attack from our enemie:;. But wh>tt has been the case'? I think it was the eenior member fur Rockharr.pton, Th1r. Grant, who drew attention to the triviality of tbe whole of the attack made upon the Government. There he"' been no big attack made upon the broad features of the Government policy by members opposite. [JYir . • T. LEAH¥: \V hat arc the broad featrm ., of thP Government policy?] If hon. members eannot see what are the broad features of the Govel'nment poiicy~ and cannot t:.ee where to attack the Gm·ernment, the deficiency is theirs and not mine. }for those \V ho have eyes to percei,~e it there is always a weakne.-.:s on the j)art of the enen1y, and if hon. rnernber:-3 cannot find it, all I can ,;ay h that they know very lit-tle about the qualifications for political warfare. We npected something like a big politico,! onslaug-ht, lmt- in,tead we got an onslaught which was alrnost puerile in the way it went on from night to night and week to week. In the place nf a big attack on the broad features of the Government p<•licy. we have had Wf'ary hours and "\-Veary nights devoted to the proceedings of a certain com­mercial ag-ent, a Jnatter' ln which there \Vas involved a sum of £-100 or £500. The appoint­ment i' only a temporary one, but if that agent had been appointed for life at a salary nf £i\,000 per an.nurn, there could not ha Ye been rnore said about it than there has been said about- this appointment; but the rnn,in position of the Go_: nrmnent has heen left absolutely untouched. l expected, when the leader of t.lw Opprosition started some time ago, that we should hear some­thing in the way of a rattle of big guns. Bnt what did WO hear? VVe heard the hon. cltle-111an tell ns seriow;;l_•, and gravely, and a srDile on his face, th2"t he had heard smnebody tell somebodv down tbe street that hea·d something about somebody caU,,d ; and that wns echoed and re-ech<''·d time aud again by one member after another in the ranks of the Opposition. Instead of t.he roar of big guns ~of big arti11er:v--,;v·,~ had a perfect fusiJade of penny squirts and popguns. Of course I do no.t. blarne hnn. n1embPrs Tllf··y are to be forgiven, for the:~.,. have experienced qulte a varietv of shocks. In the fi mt pl;tc~~, \Ve are sitt1r;"g n ry early tb]s yertr-t.his is very hard : in the st~cond place, \Ve have Bills aJrf-'ady on the talJ1P, and thP Govern1nent are prep:ued to

on directly with their busines". All t hesc se; absolutelvnovel and so absolutely

"PvnM'tP« that do not wonder that hon. nw1n~ opposite feel" considerahle amonnt of irrit.a­

tion, ancll(wk aghast, as if the Constitution were shaken to its verv foundation. 'fhe idea that the lVInrgan Gove;,nment have callerl Parliament together in May, and in the very first WcPk of the se>',ion have planked a suffrage Bill on the table is astonishing to hon. members opposite,

"·.:o might very well exclairu, "\Yhy, when we \~,_·ere -in power \\·_e kf-;pt t.he :-.nftrage ·Bill to the

L_tst, and plankcd it on the t<:tbln ·when we lli!t avoid it.' 1 rrlv~ on}~~ charg.-: of any con~

that came from the ot.ber ciide c.ome from ·~eoif)r mellll>er for Dlackay, ~ir. Pnget, a.

gentlernan ,_T, ho is generally CJUrteous in debate, ·nd -,l·h,)displaysrnuch acunwu. The hor~. mernhel' told us thal the Governor's Speech might actually i1a'..J em<\nated from the otbe1· sidt>. I do not }:::no\V h(J\V the 1--Iou.se ft·lt genPrally when he ht"cle that rerrmrk, hut I felt that the whole of the n1ember!:' pf th8 Government. t;bou1d be tilled '•rith indignation. Ic was the ~ ·:::\:ere.;;t. crltici~,;rn ·;e yet experiencecl. I do,,., know whether

the Hlblllt1er intendrd it in that ~ense, but I think be intended it to be hurnonm:;, Tlton it }w. abo been · . .J.id by h(m. me1nberH oppo.site that the Labour party have had their >-:J.Y in the (iovernor's Sperch, an{1 we havt~ had ruany l'emark~ nf that ki1nJ, but it ha.s not been a1lebed thF-.t the Govennnent protJhr~ied S(m1e tiln~' ago a :snrty}u~ of £22)000, and that we \Vt-lre lik"ly to ,_-,]i,;e a deficit of £328.000. It was not alleged chnt W8 hav.t prophesied ''· Rllrplns of £21,000 ar:d were likely to realise u detici•. of £131,000. ~t~ither h·as it alleged that we JJrophe~ied ;t ~ur­plns uf £D,OOO-modesty growing upon us·-and

to realise a deficit of £UJ1,000. ::\one of thing;;; couid br. ~aid agalntit us. It '"'·as

not said tbat W{:-J ilad so ne: .. rly destroyt>d the 2redit of the country, that loans could be floa"ed :Jnly at ruinous pricu~. It was not sald that we held the reins "~J laxly in good tirne::; tha,t public expen.diture had gone on to a fabulous excent­even our enentiet:; did not a.llege anything of this

It c<>nld not be said that h .. bitnally for y~;<tr~ our cnlculatillllf" '"8Tf:l £400,000 to the

bad everv tirne. rrrllll. Sir .c\.. ltUTLEDGE: Yuu kntH'' ve~y well wt1at pn><luced tho.se n1•scalcula­tions.] I will discuss tbat with the hon. gentieman . !J.s fully as ewer he dbire... It was not alleged that

bad tirues \Ve sanctioned the building of uflice>, >end that built )Jalatial car~ while we \Ve:>rt· 8ollPcting a poll

K one uf the:::~e thing·s \\ere or cnuld- be said against. us. ~ Pr \va:-; it allf'geil that we incrr:: ... t8Bd our inde1Jtednes8 in ono :vear by 11e dy £2,GOO,OOO, and in the ,sctu1e rai:--c~·d a terribh: deficit. rl1 ha.t could not Sclid at(;till . ..!.'~ us. [Hon. R. PH!LP: lt w"ulduot be trup if it WBte c,~a.id about us.J It could nut be said tb<:it

a ruinou~ extra.Vb _;:tnCP in good :ilnes \YC" e nmde drastic l'etreuchrnent twcr 'sary fur

onr:-\elves, and Jns.-;ibly for our H1CCt ·,~;or~, MO

that t~H."' e' il of bad ti :l(~ ~ ure re a11y de~eendcd the good tirne:-::;-~that "~.vh:.tt c·cLll a

hcredita · had inflicted cur:::;e UiJI)n

country. None of the ~e thing~ w~re alL:·ged but it \V<..:; S},id, .-:·nd reiterctted untH

that vl'e

them--Lu~ pr1lCeeding-,

n.'eapun ~of tlw;t warfare \,ras

Y on \V ere vears at bo11. n18tnhe\·s kn()W

anytlting \vith reference to JHr. Tr!illlJ, oe 1\ir. Sauuderti, or the other gen deHutn who has heen mentioned so frequently, I Lave no objec-

AdJre:n in Repl:lf·

tion to his mentioning it, but it is very ob~ jectionable to htar rnem ber~ C!lffie into thi:s Chamber and repeat rumonr,, that they have heard, without beii::1~· able tu snb~tantiate thnn. If any bon. member know•, any.thing ;,bod this rnan of a diiireoutable natun.·, it is in th~ public interest t·hat it hould be knowu, and be would be jnstitied in n· ntioning 1t in thE' l{ouse. It is not a nice tbing- to do, but it is ju~tifiAd ; but tu tr)" c~nd da1nn a nw.n \; tan1e by snch n1eans us those t\> which I have alluded is a truly pitic.ble proceeding. There ha' e been. 1nan\· fea,tnres in thi~ debate which have :t.roused Ill}; inter,~st, and sometirnes my amusement. On•~ thine: I noticed about n1em bers on the opposite side was their concern for the uneinployed. I heard one membfT talk­in, about tile l='tarving thnu:::nnd.s. [The THEA~ SC:RER: They ha Ye cJi,,c,wererl t11ern at last.] At last, as the hon. geutl~rna:n ~lolr~, they have dis­covered the unen1ployed. ..::-\set matter ot.fact, I think it i.s one of the grea.te~t di,<.lco\·erie.., of the eentnry on the part of hon. :n1cnnbers. It iF well they h<tve discovert>d them, ,q.rl that they show such tPnder concern for tbe1n. It. is \V(Jllderful the pffect the~e political changes have had on the hon. rne1nbers. It is like giving hearing to those who are deaf, sight to the blmd, and ...:n­lightenecl notiom to others. They brought in 1\lr. Foxton's 1J1ranchise Bill, under which sor.ne w.nnen ~ot one and E'Onle two vote-;, [Hon. Si~ A. I{n•LgDGE: Can't yot> refrain from talking ln :1 flippant vein?] The hon. rnernber is ]JreRuming to say in which tone I shall speak. I ~.:nbmit, 1Ir. Speaker~ if you yourself are sat.isfied with the Yein 1 aclopt, then the hon, nH~lnber n1ust he content to put up with it also. The hon. member addre,ses this House on various occasion,,; some~,in1es he aRsurnes a herions tnne, and son1etlmes an indignant tone~ U1.n honourable merilber: And ilOmet.irnes a com­i)lainint; ton(· J I arn not guing to blnuw hirn . I hctve no objectirJn to the hon. gtmtiPiuan'e. tone; it lililY be inte1'e2:ting or it may be other­wise) but I try to listen ::tnd endure it becau~e I think it io part of my duty. It is not everc·body on the opp ·site t-ide who is t:o consi:..;tent as the hon. rr1ember for l\Iaryhorough, aud I~ ay to his cre(lit that I think he ia the nwst consistent rnen:1 :.;er opposite. i~ n~l humbug or hypo-cri:<y about. him. not believe in what he call~ the "great un\vasbed," in m·der, I SUIJpo;.;e, to cli-.tiuguish them frorn the great white­\VaHhed. 'rhe hon. uwtnber does not bel-ieve in the great nnv,·a:: .. hed, and he stick--: to it and ~ays tW n1·enly, and he ha~ rny re~pect. He doe, not an.y attt:ntinn to this unern-ployed cr:7

• doe~ nor:; l'"'~ckon thPre is ver:;t rnuch in it, and .11 dly say~' ~o. I can recall the ltnn. for Mackay-I believe it wa~ agn-talking on the qnestiou uf unen1plo:n·:d, and I ren1ernber he made an pointed, anrl philnbopbic. UN ho\'~.:, the law of suppl~r ar:d demun.d. the n·1employt;d~ frntn his :not be aYoi,:Pd-ho\v it was ined.t 1 ~ be

b'1VP with yuu. the hn!L meHlbt'r ro:ie

to

Hon. P. Airry.]

308 Add;'r~s in Reply. [A::iSE:JJ:BLY.J

that has been spent on the L<cnd Offices-for the land and the buildings-see what interest that wuuld fetch in at "' per ccmt. ! That would be £7,200. \Ve pay llr. :Vlaxwellhis£3,000andspend £4,200, which would provide forty-two men with work at £100 per annum. The hon. member was q_uiLe right; be got into ,__, vet y profital)le train of thought indeed. Then, again, when I corne to rcfieet on the qut·~; ion he W:ls di::-CU~fiing-this question uf .£G00,000 sunk in the central rnilb, l ,,aid tu myself: If that £GUO,OOO is lost, if ·chese ·mills fail for 1.. ant of propPr 1nanage~

how many st r.r\'ing farrr;er..;; \vill tberL be about thern very :-;oon ; how ruany nnem~

played will louk to the fMmer,; for the work the farrner~ c:1nnot give·: ;.:;··Jtl in that I think t1wre is arnple ju')lificatjon fo<~ the r1ppointment of Dr. ~I:t.xwell. :,) I..~rh~t year, when we were di:->cn~:-;ing ::n1employed qlw-3tion, the hon. n1mnbel' tn]d ns i'· all for po~lt.ical capitaL Very wdl; I say if it is political capital, then it has tbe st.ock-itJ-trade of

l\'e had the bigge:-:;t revenue that \Ve eYer had in the State of (,{uecn,,land. LHon. Sir A. RcT, r~liDOE: It is the fact, all the same,] I have not cor:ne to that que:--:;tion yet, T ;;n1 going t.o deal with it a little bit fnrther on. Except;mo w.'o taken by the hem. member for Carpeniaria to: statenwnt I rnr:tde the other evenin:;:-, that the defective finance of this country n:sted upon its defectiv-e, francbi5e. I have nut only said that in the C(IU!ltry, r have said it here in 1--Iunse. and I mn prepared to repeat it, tn stantiate it. In the fir ,t placf•. it n1n~t eYident to a11yhody who ha~_ thong:bt Lrn:'L'

(lneensland po:ifcs that the tinaHcc·< of thit' couHtry \Vould ha\ , been pnt right it nut been thrtl .. tlH-re \\'.t:-5 iu pnwer a ment that loohd npon it;plf as a GovernrnPnt ard a Gover!llllent H1·.:t \Vas--[ The rrREASL'REH: The tJ!1ly po:-:;sible Gtl\'{::)'illtldlt.J The only possible Govenunrnt, as :11r. 1\.:idst:m has st.a.ted time ::t.nd again, and it wns in that c()nfidence that thP hon. me1nher-- whe11

friends un the ~ide of the House. ~.\s :-st~..id befurc, there hu,s been u, highly wonderful

revolution iu th0 attitude of our lriend,:.; on the <.lther side. I remembt'r towards the cloH' nf last session they brought furward the Francbi".e !

Bill. .)Jow they are y1 .trning Ln· the une1nployed, and r.hey are all-!o iu great distre~R abvnt the condition of the pPL>lic ser\·an1,s. Of course, when the pnblie ~'e£vants were retrenebed \ 10, :.1nd 15 per cent. t~u·v took it in :-t very philo­sophic~} f1 "une of 1nind indet-d. Hut to cmne to the point : Wlmt is the root of all this tronble and all this eternal talk, and this deb>cte going on night after night-this debate of long speeches <tnd little sense? It is ,,imply that the hon. members want to delay something. There is "ornething on that table that they hate worse thrtn de.tth and far worse than poison, and that is the Suffrage Bill. :Mr. :r. LEAH¥: Yon talked it ont last year.J Yes, the hon. member is qmte right. \Vhen that Suffrage Bill cmne along it gave one wornan one vote and another woman tw:> votes. I had to talk it ont, and I was Yery glad I did, nnd I

1 they torrned the GoYernrnen· 1id not dov;:1 expeuditure untH l te in their earPer. what

a! ways intend to talk out any Bill nf that kind. The hon. mernher fur Maranoa, jnst now, wh(~n I was diLtting about the matter of these predicted surp\m;.. '3 and realiRed assets, told rne that I knew the cause, and the hor.. gentleman is quite right -I know it very welL The hon. member, in the coursr of his speech the other night, dre\v atten~ tion to the fact tlu>t in three years WR had received from the Federal Tre,,snrer £1,100,000. [Hm1. Sir A. RcTLEm;tc: No; in two and a-half ye:trs.] Very well; leos th:;n we onghc to have done. I do not want to tni:-:qunte the hon. member, and by inf,erencc the hun. member wished us to conclude that this \V a, the real ro(,t 0£ our difficulty. It ha3 been prlintnl ont in this Hou~e, time and ~"tgain, that alt,hough we lo~t that from the }\der J 'l'rea~nrer, ~t gn tt dPal nf that mmwy r·~ma.ined in thP- p1JCb~tti of the people -th<-t.t there wa~ :;, re1ni:-~inn of ta.xntion to a g-re~t t.Xtent., and that, al~! ongh it might aecdHnt for ,':\Otlle of the difficultiF, in the State, it did not account f(1r :tll of tbt-.Hl, or e,·pn half of thmu, by P.ny means. The hon. m em her lmmn perfec' ly well that <1t the close of the year, in Decemb r, lOOO, before fed•emtion had ever· "ffec·ed our financ 'S at all, we were alreildy £410,000 to t••e bad ''" compar>'d wi1 h the previous year-[Sir A. Ru'rLEllGE: Then' was the dronght]-11nd there wa' already in sight a, deficit of £77,000, which we had decrear-ed to £~j28,000 by the end Df the financial Y<' 1r. \V hen it is not federation it is Lbe drought; bnt it is a singular thing if that year wa' the droc1g-ht year, which the hon. gentle1nan Hays--there is no doubt there was drought to >orne ext•nt-it is a singular thing that for that year and the succeeding year

[Hon. P. Airey.

was their buttre:; :• wh:..J·. w,,_:-; tlwir hcq)e~ ·wbar was their .security \'. ht~n they faced the c(Jnntry 'f It wD.s thi:-i eterwll property vo;e that \vas~) u:k­ing thern np al1 the 1 irrH·, an cl I subrnit tbat \vhetber the statnnent I rnnde he a general ti'uth or not, as far as the special circnrnstanc-;:--;, of (.lueen,hnd are concerned +,bat statement was absolutely and entirely t,rue. The hon. member asked, by way of contradicting what I had whether the stock that were lost dnring­drougbt would have been saved if we had a bPtter franchi:-:e. I v;·as Yery an1us~ d to bear that question, lwcansf' the hon. nH:'nlber wished to in,innate what the hon. member for :Ylaranna has just relerrerl to-that the hapless linancL l condition of unr Treasury was duR to 1he drought. Although th ,t statement has been m· de tin1e and again iu this HouRe I ~tm not going tL' allo\Y it to pJ~.s, because it il'{ not enrrect. 1: is perfectly absurd if a man has £-l a "-eek, and is suddenly reduced to £3 a week, if l1e kte]JS

the same e•,tablisbment that he rlirl when be £4 a week. llf \Y.mld soon ~et into debt ~~ncl hHve to fio::tt Tre:l~_-nry bilb, but any Illodl ,~·he h.1s a. grain of ~ ~r,se and comes down to £3 a \veek decreasf'.:-; hi~ nxpenditnn> It i~ a very simple thing tn prove th::1t the" tmc thing \\·n::-: at the root of ln;arly 811 nnr financial ciifticoHiec. Now the:~ lwn. llH:;rnber told n8 that our dPricit;..; were cnusecl b\' fedt"lation. The hon. me1ube1 f()r .1\Iar:Jnr .-1. ·i:.; apparently cptite of the f".arue opinion. [:\[r. J. Ll,AHY: Tlw Premi8r said so tou-at 'Wan ick.] I should like to draw atten­tion tu the h<ct tlmt onr ·~reat deficit of £528,000 was nearly half the :..,ccu-rrnJlat~d deficit-s \vhich t,ccurred a.t the close of two of the Jnc•st pros· perons years we have had in Queensland ns far

, aR re\'enne i:-; c:mcernHL [ThP TKEASl-HER: ! Abwlutely the la gcst revenue.] Abulutel~-

the ]argeRt revPnue~£-f, [i;)8, 000, HD i £4,:i:37, 000-­wben federation had not yet a!Iected our fir. a ne A,~. \Ve had that accun,ulated deficit of £52~,000 at the close t1f nur t\VO n1ost J.H'r 'Speruus revenun years, aud \ve reali,::t·d it also when the t·ff("Jts of the drought were n·~t properly experienced. _._;.s a matter of fact the effects of the droug·ht ;.vere far worse in lDO:! than 1!101, and the effects were inl1nitely wor"e in 1003 than in 1!101, and yp~ the cleticitR were decreasing. If there was mw truth in the lngic of the hnn, member for Ca-~pentaria,the deficitshoulcl have been increasing all the time--there is no getting away from that conclu~ion. I think it is irnpemti veb necesRary that I ehonld prove the ca>e egainst the Opposition out of their own mouth. [Hon. D. H. DALRYMPLE: n is P'lsier than to prove your own.] I wish thB hon. member would exercise a little patience. I myself display exemplary patience when listening

AcldJ·tss in REplp. [7 .J eN E.' Add.'ess :, Rep1,:. 309

~~~ r.ny advarsaries, and I \Vish he wcmld HhO\V

rn.c similar courtesy. The hon. 1nembflr for C;1rp8ntaria the other evening took upon himself tu )Jllt the tiuancial position before the crmntry t•J 'ome extent. According to him the rettl :roubh. ,; of the country are the appointinf'nt qf .Tune.s and the m"tter pf this poor little public ,;er JC'J board. In tbe yea.1· 1000-1901, the hon. n1en1ber was a little h...:-; caution<.:, and a great deaL mnre hontst in denJing with 1natters tha.~~ he wa,~ tht- other e\'ening. I hnve gnt a. part of his ~p~t\:h here. The hou. rne1nber Raid-

Xow, la"i~ ~-ear our expenditure was £4.0±0,000, and the pl'e <2nt year n]J to ;{Otll June, the total amonnt

£-1,S.J.3,000. I may state at once I regret the :~rmuent of the day did not try to keep clown thi~

et:·n·mon~ expcnditnre.

You ob,;en-e they did not cut down [.~.:iO p.n1.] the enormouR expenditure. They

did not even try. This was the Htetnber for Carrentaria- ·

Beeause 1f they had only kept the expenditure of this present year at an amount equal to that of last year the debit wonlcl only have been £250,000.

Thcr.t is to say, if the Government in place of increa~ing expenditure tu a gallop, h~d only kept wthe oldjogtrot, they wouldh»ve had a deficit of J;;~,-iO,OOO in•tead of £,j28,000, ttnd would thereby have Sttved £278,000. Xow, the hon. 1nen1ber on tbat occa:-ion \vas absolutely honest. There was no crying out about droughts and federation. He 'aid they did not cut down the enormous 'C:Xpcuditnre and they did not try to cut it down. He admits that right np to the. hilt. But what c0ndernnatiun did the hon. member mete out on tb>tt occasion? I heat· the hon. member haranguing und inveighing against Sones, and I ask what he sttid when there was ,, deficit of £7i2S,OOO? I find he said-" I r-agret the Govertnnent did not tty to cut <.1oh 11 expenditure.:' Then he passes ~)n mildly and calmly to the next phase of the subject. Yet we have had, since this ~e.ssion began~ hours and hour,~, and weeks and weekB, of poor .) ones, and an expenditure of £500, and hon, members opposite have waxed eloquent ove:; a decrease of £2 in a typewriter'R salary, whue thPy appettr on another occa.sion to have happily acquiesced in a deticit of £528,000. \Vhat I want to point out is that in tbis pat-ticular yettr, when the revenue is showing up so strongly ttnd bnoyantly, and when we can see prosperity in sight, we hear nothing but condemnation. One would think by the actwn-; of hon. members opposite that we were just going through the last phase of £3:!8,000 deticit, and not that we were pa»s­ing on to years of peosperity. \Vhen I come to reflect over these thiugs, the~e diatribes ,--qo..in:-:;t the1nisdeeds of the present Governrnent, it is infinitely amusing. I have a distinct recollection that when that able a,nd accom­plished organ the8ti·eet was drttwing a subsidy to the extent of £10 a week, and on one occasion received £42 for advertisements when the TVorlM· got £1(), the hon. member for Mackay described the former as an exceedingly wel~-conducted ttnd reputable organ. \Vhen that brilliant and lamented orgttn recei;·ed £42 in one week, and when one remembers all the talk abot1t J ones ,. nd the hon. member for .iYiackay's stnternent th~.~ he was receiving £1,000 ayf-,ar, one is hound t" rmnernber that £·12 a week is over £2 000 a Y?ar, a.ndone is bound to a8k, lvhy these stre'nuous dratribes >\nd all this invective from the hon. :n~e1nber for Carpentaria;? He \VaR very quiet wnen the late Government were hanJing out vast sums for tbe support of their pet organ, but when that bumble journal perished in spite of its merits, when that brilliant and well-conducted sheet died with its feet in the gutter and its

head on the Treasnry doorstep, if eertain hon. member::) opl~u-,ite did n(Jt pnt on crape it wa .... becn,use, heing of Scotch deE<cent-. they wanted tu save the ba.wbees. The Stru--t went nut. and hnn. n1ernber14 qpposite lost a lurninnry from the political he-,yen; bnt now .Jones has turned up, and thev think they M re recmn­penseJ. Now, two Years <l..gu ther,~ waR intro· dncerl a Special Retrenchment Bill, under which salaries vve.re tn he cnt down from :) per cent. to 15 jJer cent. I want to know where was the indig­nation then that t•oere has been over the cJmpar"·,_ ti ,·e!y trifliug reductions of t 11e inquiry board? The other night the member for Oarpentaria proved to his own ,;atisfaction that the savings resulting from the inquiry board amounted only to about £8.000. He was rig-hteously indignant abont that, but when the measure wa» brought in t,, reduce the civil servants' sabries by 5 fJer cent. and 15 jJer cent., or a total saving of £96,000, where were his diatribes ,end in>ective? \Vhere was thttt strident indignation that we heard last week rending the root of this Chamber? It was nut to be found: but now, when tht'e paltry thing-s cmne along, three or four wAeks are spent in discussing them, because there is a ghost that has to be kept in the cupboard, and it can only be kept there by postponin6· the evil day. Now, I say if there should ha>"e been any >igorou' protest uttered in this House it should have been on the occasion to which I ha Ye referred, and it should btt ve taken the form of denouncing the laxity of administration which made these retrenchments a direnece8'ity. Yoncannotsatisfy some people. I have he .1rd numbers of member·". on the other side, and esptcially the member for Carpentaria, inveig-hing against the (}overnment~ and the latter hrm. member had three complaint;;, The tirst wtts that certain men had had their RaJaries increased. The second was that certain men had had their sahries decreased, and the third that certain people had had their salaries left alone. That is the sort of thing that has been going on. \Vb(:n the salaries were raised he stormed, if they were decreased he stormed some more, and if they were left alone he stormed once again. The only unfortunate fellow who has not been stormed about is the fellow who has no regular ,alary at all. Hon. members opposite have a vast amount of ingenuity. The admirable way in which they have tracked Jones. and sleuth-hound-like have found out all ttbout' him, and the proficiency ednced in the pitiable arts, compels my poor unwilling admira­tion. I could not help smiling when listening to his speech, and remembering that the hon. member for Oarpentaria posed as a financial purist in 1901·2 when, according to the report of the Auditor-G"neral, we increased our indebted­nesh by £2,427,000. At that time, too, when we also raised a handsomedeticit, the voice of the hon. member and others who ha,-e waxed indignant during this debate was absolutely dumb. I should like to read a few extracts from HansurrJ from the speeches of the hon. member for Car· pentaria on the finances of the country, as administered by the late Go;·ernment. In 1903 he 'aid-

The GoveTmncnt haYe done most t-xcellent service. because it is only by fir::;t-class administration, by cu.r~­fully watehing our finances. and cutting down expendi­tnre, that the finances of the country can be put right next year.

Well, if a Government that raiHed a deficit of £192,000 has done so exeeedinglv well, the Government that has rttised a deficit of only half that amount must be beyond all praise. It ought to be hardly possible by mere words tc, express the merito of such a Go,-ernment. Her" ic a little bit more-

I believe that when the drought is over people vYill takB hrart and start again: and if we only pull to-

Hon. P. Airey.J

:no Add.·, <s 111 Repl;IJ. [ASSEMBLY.]

rhe 11n ,(surer will ahle 10 ac('unnt·,. lllea~mnt still we sltt-l.Jl once wore ~ailing

<vaters. t )a that occa::;ion the hon. gentlernan could see

and sn1C)th w:.tt<;3rs, .._--\_pparently we not quite attained th(_~ llarhonr the hon.

nlelnber 8::\:peeted. I am ~'limply drawing atten~ tion to the stnte of the hon. 111.em her's fp, lin£::-J when thete were deficits uf £02~.000, £-!31,000, and £192,000, and contrasting it with bis heart­rending ft:eling8 when there is retrench111ent in the public service to tbe extent of £D,OOO. In 1!101 the hon. gentleman said-

If we only have normal seasons, the people of tin~ r:..ountry ha,ve snflh~ient harkbone and grit, inheritetl Irom their Anglo-Saxon progenitors. to overcome tlw difl:1eulti(~..:; which the:· ha\'e now tn cnernmter, and Q.ueen~land will, plH:enix-likc, riw from the ash€" of it~ dF'tcl self, and :o<oou again Q('enp~ a po~ition of pros­perity.

'I'hat was when there was a deficit of £328,000, and it a.pLJCLl's to me that now we h~tVA not even got the ..t\nglo-~:txon prog:mitors. E,urther on in 1901 he :ay:, nn the Financial Statement debate-

r must ~my that I cctnnot bnt congrntulate the 'l'rca­~urer, because he, like mauy a mttn placed iu the same position, wonld naturally be ltessimist.ic, but in spite of the fact that the colony ha~" :.L larger defieic than it en~r 1lacl before. he lool.,:s at thm~s fi'Orn a bright standpoint, and believes tha.t Qneen:-;lancl will yet come out of her ditliculties as she did in lS~B.

~ ou observe---"' Excellent ad1ninistration, '' '~First-class administration, 1' and·~ Anglo-Saxnn progenitorR" into the hJ,rga,in, when the defieit wa-~ over £300,000, and now he is raisin<r the roof with his invectives over an expenditnr: of £500 and a saving of £!l,OOO. The hon. membH;, amuses me vastly. \Vben I hear such things I think of a political bantam in the financial hack yard perched on a pile of financial mis­fortunes. The bigger the pile tbe louder he crows and sings ".A.Jlelujah !" to the Govern­ment that manufactured the pile. The hon. member took upon himself the other evening to warn the Premier ag£tinst the evil of giving way to the demand.s of any party for an Electoral Bill, or something like th,t. Does he forget that he belongs to a party that has pro­mised such a Bill fur six ye<trs; that has put ~hat Bill on its programme so often that at last no one believed they were in earnest. Yet the moment he sees there is any dan"'er of effect being given to t~1e pr~)n1ises of his (~vn party he warn~ the Premier that it. n1ay 1earl to something pecnlmrly draadful. I thmk he told the J'rcmier that if the hnn. member tried to put the Bill through as it stands he wonld be, politically, dig­ging his own grave. \Vhat a splendid idea tlw.t i~; what tt· Bp1endid rlc~\. · tion of sentiment; what a nobility of motive! \Vhat sickening hypocri·.y into the bnrgain. )i ow, I C~Q teU hon. members oppo­site that we have a Premier who has some respect for his word. l-Ie i:5 not conRidering whe: her any particular suffrc'.ge may- politically adYance any parrty, but he is con~·:dflr,~ring his prmni:Se, and he i~ -;olng to keep it. [(i-overnrnent rnernbers : Hear, hear!] I ould like to say als>J that I

that the tirne \vhen a Pren1~er will thiH I-Iouse and promise it Suffrage

\Vithout the JeaRt intentinn uf keeping his word has gone tor ever. hear!'! I think I have stated before matte'r bow bad a scheme of suffrage may how absolutely uns(Jund it 1TI<ty be, there is smneone to be found to defend it. I have thRt in scoreF> of plttces; and for the edificcttion of the hon. member for Carpentari will quote wh:1.t one of the m<>"t brilli · nt of tbe day-.:\Ir. :.\lackenzie-~says in the Cent t~;'.l!-

The eounty of Bute hacl a.t 1;oter who resided ln the momentous per'-on took

[ Ron. P. Ai?"ey.

one Lime only a sin~ le ;:.n election thls prop01~efl and

~eeouded his ()\Ylll'etnrn, rceordr{l hi.; \·ote in hi·. favour. fllld sol0nmly an;wnuced that lle wa:-:. ~~nfll1~­mou~lv ele,Jtell. (Lau~hter.) That; a;-; the lJt:L~;;;age I HlLlCL~ i\.:'!2

of. It was sornewhr...t rnixrd np in the bnt I am llOG like the hon. member fr,r r1entaria, I cannot g~:;t tnv :-;peer·he~ :-;et np type in the Governtnent Pri!!ting Offi~e at (}overninent t·xpen8e hefote, band. I re1 ~e:.t what I .'J}tid then, that no n1al·.ter how nuju~t the sntfrage i~ you will a.hv _tys find somP stand up and defend it. I recollect \.hat lllelllber waR a. :-mppnrtf:"t of the b<tby vote A" a matter of fact, if that Jlill h>td been < ont, the chi::i,nce~ are that it would have chi::;ed. one-half of the nornadic population in elect(Jrf-tte of C.wpeut lria : ':nt then the hc:1. rnemher anrl his fr-iends did not exp,,-,, tcb­le:1st indign::ttion a bunt it. I d1, Jtut rem.ernber particular objection he n1ade to it; bnt no\Y we ha\·e a genuine Suffrage J3j1l \)11 the hon. Jnetnl;er has lteen \V<1~ting in trying to tlock that Bill enming IRon. 1). I-1. D~~LRY)IPLE : Toen whr dtl V<>n take part in it?] The hon. member C.tnnot expPct .son1e of hiR Rtatement~ to go uncontradicted; he has charged this side with a con"piracy of silence, but I promise not to keep him three hours as he did the HoLOe recently. The hon. ncember for lVIac:k<ly, in tttlking about Dr. J:viaxwell's appointment, s~id that according to certain Labour rnen Hl the House at one time-I think he referred tu Thomas Glassey-that £GOO year was eno1:7,h for any man. \Vel!, l do not know that the Labour party is bound to follow the dictum ot Mr. Gla,;sey, distinguished politician thoug-h he be. [:\Ir. JVl(':\IAsTER: He cre~ted your party : he fought yonr battle,; sim;le-ha11ded in this House, and then you kicked him out. -1 \\.hen the bon. member ha,; done I will proceed. There Inay be son1ething to be said against the size of this salmy; but I would remind hon. members oppositE\ 'that thev themselves appointed Dr. Maxwell at this salary, and thPy found ample justification then for giving it. f71Ir. ,J. L>;Al; Y : The Treasurer only paid one-half of it.] I a110 not talking about the proportion tb.t was paid. Now, we were told by the Hon. D. H. Dal­rymple, in his speech in 1900 nn the Sng-ar Experin1ent Stations Bill-

If we c:m succeed by the expenditure of .£2.01\ll c·~~ £:1,000 a year in adding to the fertility of the ~oi~ ·, ot ~ ht:· State and thereby adding to the wealth of the State, we are <tuitejustified in doing that. That is quite right. I submit that these mills will ha>e to be put into an efficient condition. and if we do that we will be doing precisely '" good work as if we vYere increasing the fertility of the soil. A little further down lv says-

Tte sugar experiment st·1tions, \VIlieh arc 1'8'1-lly experimelll al technieal f'ehools, art· to be uncll:l' control of Dr. -'lax ;·elL ,vlJo is an expert--:..., man of world-l'>ide fa.uJe. And the then PrE>mier take., np the same line of argument-

I know that in big- ,.;;n.c;ar IY~ntres they Yi'ant Ur. well very badly. . . . As far as I nnrlerstanrl. arc nnlv a, fe\v men like Dr. :'lax well in thH wl.olL world. ·. . If we flc-.;ire that t.bi~ ,..,hould be an ,~1'1-cultural conntr:v, we w-ant as rnneh ~ciene(' :;,~ bronght to bear· npon fv.;rieulture, nnrt we the farmers all \YC t Ln.

I curclia.ll~~ agree 'vith that. The hon . .said that he was assisting outRide people, .shon'8d unmistakeably that thi~ n1:1n wa thiB rnnney. [:I-I on. Sir~-\. l~U'l'Ll'JDGE : Y A8. for scinntlfic rnan.; I am not inclined to cli ... pnt.~ thrtt Doint. I( this -:.nan \Vas worth .£3,000 at the time the hon. member .·aid thi,, the chance.·, are he iH \Yorth that salary now, and a !.he Trea.~nrer thought that lr~rgA interests are stake-as there wns sornB £()00,000 at stake, jlnd as the solvency of these farmers about th0

Address m Hep1,Y. [7

had to !J considered--I ··~Y thrrt the ch,mces '""' that the expenditure of £3,000 coulci be well ju,tified. But we shall bttve to teust to the test. of time, and if the schem8 LLils we shall have to 1

';ay thr,t £~},000 wa . ..; a great deal too n1uch to pay ; anJ I say that if it hils chat £2,000 woulJ have b~:e;1 a grr 1t deal ; oo rnuch ro pay or

£1,500. But if the scheme succeeds submit that the expenditure of £;1,000 will be

'JUite justified. (Hear, hear 1) I know that it has been ;;aid that the members of the Labour oarty have ah-'nLy_.; b.:''"m O[Jpo~;ed to high ::;alaries; but that statelYlent is absnlutdv incorrect. Simply because one member of the Labour party qaid that l!O man should get more than £GOO, surel.v the rest of us cannot be considered to fa,ther that,,tatement. rHon. D. H. DALRY1IPLE: I though\~ you w~re CJ, S~l)lid party?] lf we were the solid party·-that i", the bminle's party with­out individuality-that the bon. memoer wishe", the hon. member fur :\Iackay would not be sitting where he lS now, and we would not be sitting where we a,re no\v, I wa:-:; verv 1nuch entertained to hear the hon. member for :Yiackav on the question of testimonials. It was splendid to listen to hun, and I alway:-; lii3teu to hin1 with plea~ure) for although be is a keen debater, he ~,hovvs no bitterne.is jn his rem~rks. In dit5cnss­ing th'' appuintrnent of :\Ir. J ones, the hon. member allnded to the fact that thrct .;entleman had got certain testimonials-[Hon. D. H. DAL­RYMPLE: How many ?l--and he told m; he could size testimonials up-[ Hon. D. H. DALRDIPLE: I referred to the telephone.] Yes ; I thank the hon. membet· for that interjection. He sa,id he would not !J"Y so much attention to testi­moni><l8, bnt he would try the man through the telephone, and so forth. He se.id that this :~nan had been a ''clashed sigi1t" too long m too m,wy placeo, and that if he was a good man he would have stopped in one place. Now, I always under;;tood that in connection with commercial agents that when a man has had experience in several good establish­ments that that is looked upon as something to his credit, especially when he produces testi­monials. The hon. member said he would not go by testimonials, and I want to ,,ee if the hon. members theory squares with his practice. \Vhat did he and his friends do with the editor and proprietor of the defunct Street newspaper? \Vhat prucedure did they adopc on that remark­?'bl8 occasion? It would be interesting to know rf they adopted the testimonial businees or the telephone business. [Hou. D. H. D.\LlWlllPLI!1: This i::; ~ery serious.l It is very ,,~1.·iou::1, for the

Government \Vantto knny,- what procedure take, and they want. tJ learn a, le~.·:nn for the

future. Then t>tke the Linrlon Bates dredges, Dicl the hun. rne1nber fur :.1111cko.y say in this bu~ine·,,:; that 2Tir. Bate::; hQd L•een in too 111any place~-­did the hon. 1nember and hi~ cnlleagnes exa.mine his credentLd8 or inquire about the 1natter by telephone? In experiments of that kind, which (;ost the conntry £1/5,000, it ;vould be interesting to knnlv how it \\'[u-:l that the late got

therein. \V ere they mi-led by tecti-or the telephone syt'tern? On Gh8 otber w~ lnve the C''"' of ~i'Ir. .Tml8s, where only

Involved. If our predec~---"'sors \Vert~ :-:;nch i'::lUCCE' ~ful :m.en in their H18th()(_1~, one ca.nnot

Low they can1e to such C\)nclusions as they to. Now, the hon. n1ernber for J\Iacka.y

wit]J c~rta.in tua.tter,_, of ~tdn:1ini:stration, and he wa~ partlCnlarly severe 1Jll the ~1inister for ~\griculturf'. The chief grie\·ance ag~inst that hon. g-entlenw,n :--ee1ned to 1110 to be th.tG he knew -)great dPal about brancbd~ in hi:-~ deuart-

rr,ent. fHon. D. JJ.\LHL\ll'LJ<:: [ ;ai:i h<c lzne\v t'"3u ;:nueh. J hon. 1~1em her thinks that becanse a rnan knows vm·y nn1Ch ahmt the detail~ of a part.ienlar braneh, he is thereby dis-

3il

qu<>.lified from holding control of the department. [Hon. D. H. D \LHD!PI,E : I never "aid so.l )h ; but th:tt was the whole tenor of the lwn.

gentlflnan's rmnarks. I do nut [H p. m.] •V•Jnder at the bon. gentle1nan

::1dopting this line of 3rguntent, bf>eause he, :no doubt, dc~ lr:..::~ to put hirr1s:...>lf nn the topmu.-;t p-innacle of perfection I ::-'\honld like to deal nuw wi.th the questiull of the boat d of inquity which was ttppoirued, and pf the alleged uncertainty that there i' in the public "ervice. fHon. D, H. DALllYJfPLE: Yon read the Public: Su·~ ice Rccic/:, and you \vill know something about it.] t hope the hon. member will have

j patience and listen to my statenwnt. I was \·ery patient when he was adJressing the Hnu~e, and. I did not interruvt him more than twice, ln1t he cannot le,:~..ve me alone for ten ndnutes in succes~ion. lie i..; a~ touchy r1.S a young hor·;;e nnde1· tbe whip. I an.1 very 5-)fJrry to say that for a long time thPre has been uncertainty in the public servicA. The hon. member for Carnarvon in dealing \vith this . .,ubject s:.tid in his time the." pursued another system--" That they were retrenchi11g the Bervice piecemeal." That is a very catchy phrase ; but I say that just so long '" any Governnwnt pm·sues the policy of retrenching the service piecemer:tl, so long is there bDund t\J be uncertainty and di:3tr"..lst in that service. I ~hink the hest way tn settle the matter is to have a speedy verdict. [Hon. D. H. D.UitYJlPLE: Hang him at once.j It is better to hang a man at once tlmn to keep him standing with c; rop~ over his head for ever and frighten him to death, and I say that it would, be a ~reat dc"al better to hwe asp,oedy verdic:t and have cer­tainty est.abtished in the puhlic service. Let us put the service on bedrock, so that people may know where they are, and that there v. ill he no further retrenchment, but that whatever change there may be by and by will be a change for the better. [Hon, D. H. D.u~RDIPLE: They do not know when they are on bedrock.] I notice that the complaints, generally speaking, were of two kinds. The first was that this board consisted mainly of outsiders-,;omehody called them foreigners--and the other was that it consisted partly of an insider. l should like to know, if that method be objected

, to, what method our opponents would :cdnpt in ' place of it. \Ye will suppose that :Ministers took

Ui_Jon themselves to go through the dep,.utn1ents, to look carefully into them, and to carry onn this retrenchmcmt and reduction on their o 'Vn responsibility-and what should we be told'! \Ve sbonld be told that there was volitical Ltvom, politic:>! bias, politic!>! pre­judice of all kind,s, and that :Vlinisters were the very last persons who ,;hould have been entru~t~d \\ ith the carrying out of such a. scheme. I shonld myoelf <!nite agree with that vP-rdi.ct. :-)nppo::.:e we had not taken the men we did-~\-Ir. Troup and :\Ir. i:J,1tmders- we sb( 1uld have asked \vhy we did not go to

of the Sta.tf-'·~--\\:hy we did nnt go to _,:-\uRtra.lia '? If we had ~on~:J to \Vestern we should have been c,,;ked why we did

nl)t go to ,J ohaunesburg, and if we had gone to .Tuhanne.sbnrg \illB shonid have been aHked why v,re did no>; to ?ata~~onia ·; There j-; no ~,atisfying hon. or,pnsite. Suppose we allowed the U:nclt'r tiecr.2t:1ri,,~s to do the \Vork) we should be told tba ~ the Under Secretary was the

last m::tn w}H.l shnnld have been en· with s1wh a duty, th::-~~ he is tiecl up

routine, that he has favourites in the 1Jer,•30n<1~ and versonal hia.s,

and so· on. suggestion WDS that we s' oulil take rt nun1bt r of Qaeen;;;land business 1nen, and h-t theth through thf' service and lJUt it on -:. bound \Vhat should we have been \okl if we hctd th ne tbot· '? \Ve should have been t<Jld that ....:nrnn1ereiai iEterests were at

Hon. P. Airt:y.J

312 Addre<s 1!1 R !'1 At:SE:\TBLY .• Arlrli'ess in Rrpl11.

work; that th~·re were bu:;.ineE->s influenc-e~, ne>'otism; that they had rehr.ion> here and th"re in the service. \Vehave he.,rd that chargealrc ,dy. and without any foundation. I "peat. if we had had a comrnit<sion of bnsinegs rnen we shoulcl have been told that the result of their work w .. s due to 1 he fact that they were influenced in fo..tvour of smneboJy's brother-in-law or nephew, and we should ha.ve had no rnore sati~faction, and I ventuee to say infinitely less, ttHlll has be n given by the present method. I do not sny that the method adopted was a perfect one. bu~ it w>~s the best that could pussib]y he devised. I heard a number of attacks on the members of that board, and I listened to them with very great regret. I do not want to say anything about them, because if I dirl the chances are that I should be led into repeating remarks of a kind that I should like to kave to somcobody else if they are to be made. I shall , only say that the remarks I heard about one member of the board are ab>"olute]y untrue. no matter where they came from. The qne;tion alwa,ys sugg-ested to a thinking rnen is, \\'hat do the critics themselves propose? 'l.'he hon. mem­ber for Carnarvon said it was a fugitive board !

composed of unknown men, and that if a Roval Commission had been appointed it would have 1

taken evidence. Th.at is J?8rfe~tly true,o and, as i the bon. member said a little oefore, 1t would ' have been an expensive business. The bon. member further argued that the evidenc~= would have been publishEd, and we should haYe seen whether there was any injustice in their recom­mendacions. If we are to judge by past 8Xperience, the appointment of such a commission would have cost £3,000 or £4,000, and then possibly the Gtl\'ermncnt would have shirked the is;ue. But what is the hon. member's own solution of the difficulty? He says-

where the utility of it C1!lleR in. It h.'s het'l alleged that this Loard of lnqulr~~ v.mscalk'1 in in order to cutdown the Sf'l'Tice. If1t WP app(,interl for that pnrpose, hnw is it that a nrunl1er n£ salades have been ircr .. •ased ': There i.:: no lngic in the flrgmnent of those who take up that posi­tion. The board was called iu to remodel the service and put it on a F:ound ba~is. If it has not done so, all I can soy i' the thing will ho.Y• to be put rio-ht by and by, but we shall bavE' to tn· what bb"-S been done and ep if thE' basis ic; so\md, and if it is not we shall hwe subsequently to amend it. [Hon. ,T. :F. G. FoxTON: Appoint another hoard to find nut.] The hon. member tn!tl us that the policy of the Government nf which he was a member was to retrench the service piecemeal. \Vhat security is there for any service that is retrenched piecemE'al? It is an· :tbsolut.ely wrong system. \Ye, have to put the service on a certain has is, tet:t it as thoroughly as we can, giving the f'ervice to under::;tand that that is the rnd of retrenchment. It i>­perfectly true that for son1e yf- i:trl{ there ha.;; been insecurity in the public service, in the same \vay as there has been little security in the public service of New Snuth \Vales, simply becaus the Government by foolish expenditure packed the service to a certain extent, with the result that there had to be a black \Vednesday in New South \Vales, and there is another black \Vednesday before tbe serYice there before it is put on a sound basi~. To son1e extent we have had the same trouble here. [Mr. J. LEAHY: And they had Labour members support­ing the Governn1ent. there.] I say, whether the Labour party support or oppose such o system it is a wrong oystem. Does th:. hon. member think tlmt because a system wt11ch '' objectionable and leads to corruption is sup­ported by certain members of the L·tbo'.lr party I should approve of it? I would do nothing of the kind. I do not see how there could be any security in the public service while the loan industry was going- on as it was a few years ago, when the interest was so huge that it was actu­ally devitali~ing the revenue. I re1uember the

d. thoroughly independent Public :Service Board was COURtituted. rr;wee gentlemen were alJpOinted \VhO had a thorough knowledge ot the various Uranclles of the public service in almost all its departments. rrlwy were seleeted for t.heir high character, for the confi­dence which the Go~,.·evnment of the day, and which certainly---not the least important consirJeratiou in my opinion-the public service itself had in them. '!'hey were thoroughly representative of all slladf>,; of opinion

i hnn. member for Ro~khan1ptnn, two yPars agn~ ' pointim; out th>tt, according to the Blue Hook

for ll!Ol, the late Government had put on 1,200 1nen in four year8. \Vhen things are going on at that rate there is hound to be reaction-there is

in the community, and their f: '<.:pcrience of Queensland and official work generally was as large as could be expected to be found in any three gentleu:en \Vho might be con:;;idered eligible for such position from anotller point of Yiew. From my seven sears' experience with I that board, and witlwnt it, I thoroughly believe that its existence was a \cry great safc~ua1·d for the benefit of the public. and also a 8afegnard fo1· the public service ... [Tbe PR~:Ma;R: Is that why yon abolisllCd it: 1 I was a member of the Government which abolishert. it. for economical reasons principall.Y.

bound to be retrenchment ; and I ,,ay that thosc­who put on men to that extent-those wbc> so signally forgot their duty-are really to blame for the retrenchment that comes after. Some hon. members are very much troubled about the supernumeraries; bnt there is somerody else to be sympathised with besides supernumeraries. There are men out·dde whn are carrying- f-!Uper­numerariE>s on their shoulders, and who \try often have not got thP 'd'age of a supe-r­numerary: and I say that for fWery man in this House crying ag tinst the Government

If what the hon. member for Carnarvon says about the position, and actiPn, and work of 1 that board is perfectly correct, then the worst, step that was ever taken with r~gard to the !

public service of Qneensland was the abolition of that particuhr board. I know. and mo.<t hon. member& know, wh,,t w" the. trouble. The plain fact is that the public sen,ice of Queens­land had not confidence in the board. 'rh., senior member for Rnckhampton and myself have both been in the sc>rvice, and we know per­fectly well what the •>pinion of tht- public service of theState was, and I say tbey had no confi­dence m the board. ~ ot only is that true bnt this Honse bad also lost cnnfirlence in the P;1blic Service Board. I heard iS disct,"Sed !Jere, anrl I know that the 1nw-" . ..; of men1ber;-; in this Hou~e were of upinion t.ha.t the pnlJlie :serviee of

1

that day signally failed in :::ccomplisbing the purpose for which it W<CS e"~ablished. I am sorry tn have to 8ay it, because I believe that a board of some kind j, a neceo­sitv, but unle" that hoard t\111 be absnlutdy independent 2.nd unbiaSRed I do not see

for this retrenchment. t,here are hundreds of mrn outside F"l.ying, ·"\V ell done, it onght to ha.Ye b"'en rlone iong ago.'' (I-Ion. ~J. :b-.. G. FOXTON: \Vhat ahout the increases?] The increa:-:;e~ may be very well rleservrd. 1 t' a 1nan

1 has rernained. Ray Rlx years in a po~ition, and gets ' an incr~ase of half n dnzen pounrls, I think it ;,

quit<' right he should get it, and I think the best thing the hnatd did '>Yas in reeognising thi~ principle. I should like to dwell upon arwther phase of the subject, and that is the m8.tter mentioned the other c ,-ening by the hon. mem· ber fnr 2\'Iaranoa. The hem. gentleman, in spE',k­ing on the Arldreos in Heply with regard to

[I-I on. P . .Airey.

fernale suffrage, ;:;aid-

I should be the last to say a single disparaging word_ about the honour or tho intellip;Pnoe of women. but I h<L\'8 always maintained, aud I stlllmaintain, and facth have gone to show that wbat l have maintained LJ

l'O:;.:l,- to i't liPll on. and that t." tLtt the women of IJ ne- as <t ,,-Itulc really do ll(J! des l'L' the fran-c~i '--'. y g·rlt tlltl fr;wehi~c tlunn.dl the agency of the ('oJJllWlll\YPalth {~uiPrmneut, aut1 the n·:nlt w·ts cxat:tly_\\·lmt_ I :-::dd~that yon <'0HlllHot indw~e a large provort.wu ot the won1t:ll to go atHt J"e('Ol'li tht!ll' \"Oles. ~The Ttu·:_\._:---I'!tEtt: 1ra~ t!Jat. n•)t l!uc or the 1uen?' ·we lnwv.- that in Queen . .,bJnc1 not 50 pt r· ePnt. of the ~YllOlP nun her of \ oters rccc•rded. theh· -.;-nte~ at tlJC federal elc·tir·n~. -~\n houonrable rncllllwr: Ynn aro wron~--03 per ~cnt.j l•'Hty pt->r cent. is Hear eno11gb. In those elections nut :J() per ct~nt. of the ,women of Qneen::-land r{!eorrle1l tlleit· Yotc~. tltong I! they HJigllt ha\'e heel\ expedetl to bl~, HI:' ll1811 aJ·e, pleast-d wit.l1 a. ne"· toY. 1'111:'~\ die! DOt l'8COl'd their YOtes, H1H1 the l'CSttlt was, as we all know. th11t by H'.t:';nn of the ret'nsal ot' a !arge pl'OilOrtiou of the \YUJW l! of Qnecn~lfmd to axail thcm­;:;che"' of tl1e ri:!ht ~•lHl pri\·i!e_ge of rf'cortlin~ their Yotes. candicl.atf';;; were deteatcd -.;vho would ot,herwi~e hnn· probahly ht- en elef'tetl. I am qnite I' Oil\ inced in my own n:int1 tlu~t mt!f'.;;.::o special facilitie.-:' are giveu to them t'nr re('ording- th(:'il' -rote.-; tlH \- -.;-rill not exereise tile :t'l'anchif'e, and L llope to see ii1 the Btll when it com('.:: before thi:--( Chamber }liOvi:;;ion mat1e h\" whi~h W?l~II.'H ean l'··eord their rote;;; hy post Thc-lt might lmtJ"·tte tlw SETCJ'ity or tlH t>peratiou of ::t measure coniening the feuwle suffra\!1', aud g~t over the objection many vmmen have to engaging in a rongll­and-tnmble. speaking ill a general way. in order to record their votes. [An houmuable member: Xon­sen·•c: J It is not nons on se. I know jllHC'C':' in Brisbane \V here women went to ref~ord theit' votel' an!l \W~re met by the self-appointed mnis::-:aries of ('t~rtain candidate.;;, :Who thru~t, in their f~Wf'S ("Crta.in docuuwnt.s, saying, "'n,~rr. this Js tbc ·way tn YOte. Look at this.''

:Kow, as to the e1nissaries. I vva~ prm~ez1t at an election myHelf the~ Of her da:v, and I saw :1,

n1.nnb~-'r of ernissarit" belonging to the :K ational Liberal lTnion, and very ladylike per"on' they were:. I \Va~ intl:'rvit-~\veci by an erni.')s:n·v ot that kind myself, who Ll.id dPep anrl cogent rea~ons before me for voting fpr 1\ir. }~dwards, and if it had n••t happened that 1 voted for the other man a eouple cf honrs before, I shoulci certainly ha.ve aeceded to the lat1y':-; 'i,_,ws. Tbe hon. Tuen1ber sa ye that the procee,liugs partook of the nature of a l'ou:;h-a.nd·tutnGle, and I want to draw his attention to extracts I made frmn certain papers showing what Wt-re the real actual proceedinos of tbo rough·and·tutnh1P he talks ribont. lle~e is the C:ourirr of the 17th December-

In8tcad of all tlli~, thP. fuss and fighting. and the tur­bulent. ad\·oeacy ot this or that Pauclidate. there <va~ a ilniet carne~tne~ .... and. gcneraliy .sp( tkiu~. a courteous con~ideration for earh othb' among,~t those who \VerA working in the loc,ditie~ of the poJling booths. ::\Iuch of this was probably ovoiHp: to the :uriYal of the woman voter antl the woman worker. As fat' as Brisbane ancl the ~nbnrban places were POncerneL1 it \\·as a. woman'.":< deetion.

'l,hi:-: was \\rhen~ the rongh-rtn'].tumble rnust have ••ccurred. l\i:y obsen·.,t.ion be>trs out that quotation to the utmost. A little bit further-

The pre~ence and partieipation of so many women told in more ways than in seetuing ';oteH. It l.Jad a restraining influence on the men. and re~nlted genm·ally iu a. modification of customary election methods.

Then the .Notth Quce"s/and Reyislct deal,; with the sa1r.e subject. It f~ys-

'l'herc b no llonbt th ! women voters :-oieaclietl things nt the polls. The ~ratP o.f the eonrt.-lwnsc cndosnre previou~ly wa~:-~ occnpied. by strtw~liog anil I."Xcited electioneering agent~. and m~tny a 1ittle ~erap started there in day::-; gone by. Br)th side:-:. howeYer, a.re now too dcsirnn~ of !Jlanttin~ th;_• wompu .j voi:e, aud so. as a result, the gat \Ya..., a~' ~t ··e f: um biekeriug as :t church door, and the pa~sagt~ 0t P1e women was utdnterrurJtcd.

LHon. D. H. DALHDll'LE: \Vhy not qnote the Truth ; that is the Gnvernment or~an.] I have testiruony both frmn tl1e Press in Chartt:rs To wen~ anrl. Bri.->tH.lJnP, RO I tllink t.he hull. nlen;.ber was a. little mi~t. k~n in t:~Jir1king ~hat r,lH~ pruct'edings were a rou~h·tt:nd·tnruble. But the twn. mem­ber).-< real argume11t that I v~orat;t t.() deal 'ivith is this: He opoke about. less thr.n :30 per cent. of the 'von1en \'11ting. .AH a lnattet· <Jf fact 41 pur cent. of the women Yoted, which I think \Vas not bad for a beginning. And if v.e adn1it becn1se only 47 per cent. of the wmnPn ,·oted, that for that

318

reni:lnn th,~y are not \rorth tlw fr8nchi~e--[Hon. D. H. U.\LECL\IPLE: I ~aid they ought t.o be aJJo,,·ed to \·ote b;\-· i1ns'". that wa~ the argnrnent.J I rettd the pJt->~age to the hon. lnembPr ju:st now. [An ltontmr.tbh:' tl!f;~utbt'r: l.r on are not readiog it rig-ht.] I hnve no de~lre tq distort aiJythlng that tJe said. i read it through, and the argun:H'nt was that the1 f• wa.:-; no desire on the p,~rt of wornt~n ft)r the fn-tnchise. The hon. gentlenmn adn1it~ it hirn:-:elf, I d1d not n1i.sr-epre::-.ent biin in auy "ar. an·! that possibly is why he did not want the franchise to be given. The hmL Ult'lltbf L, for )...Iackay is going to chanllJion everybody; he has taken the \V hole (.:1-oYernment under his wing; :such a champion I never llH·'t in HJY lift'. Suppose WP take the pvint that beeau'e only 4o per cent. voted, therefore, u.s tht>y do IH,t de,-...ire the V11te, they shoulu not havA it. \Yhat i" the conclusion to which it is goit11! to lead U8? ln Xew ::)uuth \V >t\e, only '17 per ernt. of the population voted according to the last report, therefore they ha\'e­no desire for th~ franchi.--H:•, and it ~b0uld not be given to the1n; and if they have gnt it it ~hould be taken a way from them. In Yic­t.,ria only .)1 per cent. of the popuhtion \'oted. Therefore, I ::-onppose, that in a countn• where there i-< such a small per­centage of voter8-. thE-:: dn not. therefore, want Lhe fr,mchi>e. [J\lr .. JE,KIN::<o:s-: Of those on the r~>ll. J Yes, those on the roll. Then, again, in Ta~rnanin, only :32 per cent. voted. Take (,)ueensl"nd: There ha,·e been elections in the past, and not ,·ery far t•ack. where i50 per cent. h;.ve not voted. Is tlw hon. gentleman going· on the rk~:-:;nmption tha<:. bec:1use there is not a lond darnour for a vnt,e~he is curning to this aB

::.t 1w-ttter of fact~no ;-;uffrage 8hould be granted to the rua" of the people at all, becaU'!" I h<>H a oerious douGt as to whether the minds of the pt':\ople, in some countries, a,t all events, though cerbinly not in (tueensland, are very much c•mcerned about the franchise. Take \Vestern Australia: Only 2fi per cent. voted there. Are you going to (Jeprive the popula~ion of \V estern Anstralia of votes bec>tuse only 2S per cent. voted? The thing will not hold water for " moment. The real trouble is not the number who recorded their votes, but the way they \'Ottld on that particular occasion. (Hear, hear!} That i:; all that is wrong, and if they had voted the other way we should llave been told that the federal franchi,s., was the grandest thing that IBd ever been conferred on the people of Aus­tralia. \Ve have h,ard a lot of talk about the appointments to the Legislative Council. I know that one grievancB is the number of those who were appointed, and it has been thrown at the Labour p<1rty in particular that they are a P"rty who do no:; believe in the F pper House, and that com•"quently the appointment of nominees was a Lerrible dereliction '"'cl a falling away from their principle". ::'\nw, as a matter of fact, anybody who objects to the {~ pper House as at present constituted does not c:.re that much as to whether the r pper How;e consists of twenty, thirty, f•Jrty, or fifty members-the fact that there are half a dozen more or less m that Chamber does not trouble bim one iota. It is alleged that the House is swamped for party pur­po:5LS. E\'en if, for the :-.:1ke of argument, I were to admit tlu>t t:.at was oil. there is a precedent for it in the old country. I can remem· ber the cre·ttiun of Liberal peers for party !JUl'poses. There i:-: nothing so Yery terri_ble abDut it, it is a pPrf.-'ctly constitution'll practice, and when hon. members talk about their delicacy, as I hnrc! some talk the other night, when alluding to the Legislative Council-their delicacy forsoottJ ! I like that word--and then they say with a quiet onee: the appointments might have been worse. a" the hon. tnember for Carnarvon

Hon. P. Airey.]

314 R(p/p. [ci..SSEJYIBLY.]

did, I would not give HEl-.;h for their :Llleged delicacy. \Yhatever nmy \w tbon'~ht ahont, tbe appointnlPUt::::, the L:st appuintoes to the Council are t leaKt as worthy a,-; the hon. l1Jf>Jl11 er who c..tst that [Li'per~ion. ..::"\._notber that ha.-; been brought 1.p time: alhl again the land question, and there i~ , grc1.t dea.l of irritation a·gainst the Preurier Pn HLCI•Unt of the a:Ic;\ver he nT utly gave to tbe pa...;tul·ali, t~. The other rla.v \V8 had a !lew prv:L~11tun~Ht (\f\

land matters tbe lctch·r of the Oppo~i-tion. This is be a<hoc,tted : :-;dl the land.-thf n prohibit all ta~ t.iun fnl' t.\venty or thirty yPar~. lJitht:l't·· it. \\'a:;; tbi,,: Sell the land, and then by and by you can tax it. It ap]_lear . .:; tu rile that some people have an idea tha,t ~L w -~~ ati~ing that if land were sold \\oulcl be taxed. Then they want to ti'O a,wa;' frnn1 that : th~y Fay pro­hibit taxation fur twenty or t hirt·· year>. That is another propo:-:itinn, and it j~ liki--dy to bftve a serion::; f--'fft~ct on the 'fre,t· urv )n the fntnre. I wa~ "mn"ed to be:u· that thc2 lea;le1· of the Opposition attribut~d the st:..gn:_~don tlw.t existed in QuePns­]and pnlitics to ial1d "~df~S being blucked t!H11ugh giv1ng a. high pr~cc for h.nd. ..::\nd when we consider that his own Gnvernu1t:.nt wu.~ re~pon­sible for that policy, we rnn~~. cn1He tu the con­clusion that hP la.y~ the stagw·ti~m in ( lueen.sland politics vt-ry neatly the :-;h()nlders (,£ his own achninistration. \Ya..;; highly ann1''ed to notice that thP~A I__je·lpk· who a.re so clan1orou~ ab{! ut la11d set.tlt<n1en L ~ay nothing ::tbout the conditions of settl..rnent. I do not :see any virtue in :-;elling land at. a, hig-h price, and I do not see any virtnu in selling it at [t lov: priee, hut I do see virtue in .<ettlement at any price. \Ve must fuwe ;ettlernento I r,otic'e that the;;e people tQlk about the high and low !Jrice of land, and sa,",'" nothing about :-:ettlen1tnt. As a matter of fae., we lmuw very well that the

area of really good. ::"tnd is very [9.:10 p. m.] limite,l. [Dro GARllE: Any amount

of it. J I mean close to the coast. It i8 no U:-38 talkiug about (Jl1r 420,000,000 acre:;;. The less WE' say abuut that the better. It is

"imperatively necessary that the g·ood agricultural land neRr the coast should be kept for settleo ment, whether •;olcl at a high or low price. I think if we want to npen np good land near the coast, one Jight line running into an agricultural district is worth a ton of tht se theories about the high price of land. I do not know that I believe in a. high price. I think it nw.y be very good, 'lnd ~on1etimeJS very bad. If a. big block of land ii) to b8 sold to (HJP or pruprit:tor . .:;:, make the1n pay the 1__jrice, by rnea.ns bu~. if it comes to settJenH:nt, let genni11·~· yrle ~ettle.r!:l h~tve jr, but insiRt on of settlement. Now, 1 \-Vas sorr'' to notice the other day .a. 1nernbr:-1· of this P'H't' --the hon. men1b r for Leichhardt-clc ,;inc; w1 i,;, the <JUestion o£ the Jand a,nd the public ~erviet-.:o in '- SOlHewh~tt pecu­Ijar 1vay, and that hon. n~~-·n1h r wiU furgiYe 1ne if I critici~-<e what Le .~.,i~_1. '"1\tlking abont the pnblic Retvice, he: ,-.;.1id-

:m Pntirely \'\"TOll!.!: p(Jlicy, not w.-i. _cry ~:tn( 1 su.lferin~. but also

in::.::, Hlf'l'C,miilr ancl trade depression. and naclin. to 1nuuher or \YOrh:le&.; men now compntjug for mnployrneut in o1w ,trects.

That Jt will c .. msc }lcntc i.:l(L'dl1nalmlsrr,\· and ~utfer­iu;:;'is ccrt·~in. TiL ,·e ha . .;; C0HlP nnrlc-1· my own notice the c.lse of ~n old ciYil ~en.'-~nt wbn 1ws

ll s the ease of m~m.' ot.;J<·t·~, i'L erll :i.:~vf:·,tmt--nts lwse been nnfortuna.te. He is umv tnn;cJ :qlrift \'.:ltlt ~ix wN~ks' 11otice at a time of life <UJ{.{ Ut JC of h•1:-in~~s depre~~ion. when it is impossible for ::.o ;~r,t. othC'r t~mployment. It for him and hl~ ttE'l' rni.11. 'rhi~ . .from what hare hem·tl. j:-:. o~1l:" <t nunl· ·:· of .... imil:u· easf'<::-.

[ llmL P. Aitey.

That it will i11tcn~iry d' pre~.sion awl ilwrcase the nnmbm· ot unemJliO}Tfl is o:.-qnally (~er~aiu. Ever,\ .::ivE ~m·vHnt l'CtrenellCd :..nutns lc;-;s in oirenlation among-:-:t tr)-ll1el't:<, nll:l'(~liantt:<. conmmtlity ,2:enm·~dly. 1~' ery employee anothc!' nn-~m~doyt~d lJCl'~Ol1 fig·llt.ing W1th U~ her l.~lleltlploy<:>d for,the little employment tllat exist". J_t abq r_edneos. WHJ;CS, for by incrcasi11g the ot HllL'nptoyetl l::'i Jlla(lt' keeuerstill the competition the largcl' l'<l for tl1·~ ~itnati.on~. at Imre<' wag "· ot those Clit pl

I l\:now it "'dll be said that not to rctrc:j(~ll lnYnlvc, larger Gov ,~ rllnH·ntal exvc~JSt:~. :which lt:t\~('. to _bn born~ br an alrcallv m·crtast•d (:uWJtttllllly, to \Vlneh I H~lJly tnaL there are lnttPt'. mom , a.Dil ways of improving tllc ~ rll~lH c~it.hm· retrt·nchmcnt, ilnpo:-;ine!' lH-:\v taxe,.., "~Vlm·!J trade and commerC" m' lJy plaein'.2; l)COple.

Witlt tt1e policy of ·' C'ilideucv or the r .ril an cl if t iiCre h aU hetm snpen·i~u, re;.;:11latc. har(lRhip it wonld h~ve /''UlllOt a'2,'H·C 1.-rith '' lmt to is uuinst, and in m":mv ca~e~ mmec(_·;~·u·y n~tl'ClJI',_llnent.

A little further on hP nticl-\Yltilst I am writin.o.~ there 1~ aho anuthe.:: matter l!n

which 1 \VOnlr1 a.pl) .~t.i to s 1tL )in, wron~ ·P1~:;t?rs 111

the ~twmg.,nre, Pr:\k Dmn1~. a_ad O~·her lo~·allttes 1n ,~he Central db:trid arP in dif'licnltws \Vlth tlw11· rent~. 1 he rece11t ctrou~hl ::-we )t aw·r~. J.JOt onl,r their :;toek but all the mean~ th<lt the_\" pO''>C~scd. \Yitho:tr ~~ock. th~r_e­fore or (·ven t!H~ lllE'lU::.O of pu"""tiu,:~· 111 thmr crops 111

mar~y ea~~:-·.-., it ln:ts :<.imply 1JC(~l1 nnpo..::,jhJ, for tliel~l t-ince the eounneneenteut of tbe tll·oug-ht, to pa..y th_mr rcnt:5. Yet the l~<t_V!ncut of the rent~ is ~til~ .bem~ in:::<i.sted on under penalty of tine~ iLlHl hab1hty of forfeiture of theii' seleet10n ....

The hon. member for Leichhardt, in deal­ing \vith questions like ·tbese, iB not easy i o satisfv. \vhat does he want? He says he wantS a pennancnt board to s~pervise, and rc<;t!latc. and graduall;u readJust the public service without harclsl11p. [Mr. .J. LEAHY: That means in a fair way.] We know ycrv well what the hon. member means. I1i an Assembly like this, where the appointment of on.c. J?ublic ser\ ant has m~t with such severe cntlmsm, what would be said if the hon. membor"s scheme was carried out, and if this board was appointed at the expense of the taxpayer" And then, what aTe their functions to be"! They are to readjust the public serviLe without ·hardship. All I know is that when the hon. member can devise snch a board as that, and put it in operation, I will ~·htdlv support it. The hon. member says we ~ro i;1creasint, the number of worklcs~ men, a statement which is, unfortunately. quite true. I have heard the member for Bulloo argue on tbis qnest · 011. [..:VIr. J. LEAHY: ~~nd you will hear him a:; ~in. J I expect we shall. I have hearcl him s>ty, as others have smd, that all firmf do the sane thing-that the very necc~sity of thci1· existence c_lcn1ands ~hat they should do the same. There JS no getting away from that conclusion. I will take the selector :n tho neighbourhood of Springsuri?, in whic.h district the hon. member for Lewhhardt JS

interested, and I ::tsk what he does when he has finished his job of fnncing? He sacks h1s hancl The hon. member for T oichharclt has a selection up there. I suppose he sometimes C"tnploys tucn, <1!1d "\vltc·n the job is finished floes ho not get rid of thern '? Does he keep tlwrn on for three or four \Vceks because he ls uh--.id of increasing the n1.unber of the n~lem­ploycrl? He knows very well that no busmuss would stand such " thing. The hon. member talks a bont a respected public servant of fort.y years' standing- having to leave Ins positlO!?-· I must admit that the position of that man 1s a hard one, and pos...;ibly a cruel one, but does the lwn. member's symp,.thy for that man Lliud him to the fact that for fortv years he La·~ l:wt:n drawing a good salary~ ha'311ad oppor-

~ ... : irJg, has had a good time, au and at the sarr1e tinw his ;;up­

Ldnh:ibutcd to hy men who have these adYantagos? The fact of

~naLtcT tha,t you cannot tako into account <Jii2.,tion of sympathy. If you do

n \·er h~.vc an:; regulation or super~ at all~ unt1~ :vou gPt t.hat divine public

board ·wlurh can regulate the sr:rvico hardship. In short. we are to have no

or oconorny, and wo an' to remit re• 1ts ~ the ~e) cctors in the Springsure

\on 1nu ,t not retrench, you have to ! l:-nt""': Jose rovcm_uo, ~quare the deficit,

~ _vvi,tnout running Into further debt. eo m' s t llD ~ot know how these things are to

,c clone. lt 1s nnposSl!Jlc. It could not be done a Cabinet of ar~...d1augels, and no one knows

than the hon. member. \Ve have had , . of schemes l?roposcd for the regula-l.on of pubhc serviCe-a nun1bcr of inven-

;ors ha Ye co::ne £orv. ard to tell us -,..·hat to do. the finest example I have heard is that hon. member for Stanley. On page 1G3

he says-~~~ a. man t'erv< ~ t~1e State £m·~ ''"enty Y< 11'~, so long 1~ capable of J!lllng that. ofl!co, 11 ml the fac! tlwt

11as been in o1tieo for twenty year..,, is ::-utncier1 t lhH.t tl:e officB i~ neee;:;sary.

That is a proposition seriou~ly laid down by a ~entlen1aLt1 who has crltlJCl,sms to offer on rmnodelling the, public service. Very well, >upposC' we accept that. Take the case of an mspector of boilers, for instance. In the c·ourse of a few years perhaps there will be no neccssit_,- fnr boilc"'. The development of elec­T·:l~al rn~chi~ery ~-nay cause_ t.~?m to be wjped :;'lt. w_l-n~h 1s qmto a possibl11ty. We have nad this mspector for twenty vears and ho is to remain in that po?ition. 'He has been a ~ood mspector, ?>nd 1t cl?es not matter that rlwr~' a.rc no bo~lers to Inspez.,t, he is to be ;~et;ained and pard his sal_ary for inspecting c~oilers that no long-er exist. I read a long t.rme a<o;o of. an old French marquis in the ~-,r gn_ nf Lo~us Xl_Y., whose duty consisted of nand~ng- Ehs :\la]esty a clean shirt every ~ilormng·. He h~d bee1_1 at that nearly all his Me, and for th~s servwe he held place and ';''"oluments. ;.\ ould the hon. member for ;:>tanley r>;amtam that _because that officer had nanded IHs Majesty hrs shirt, duly scented, I presume, for t\\ ~nty :ye!lrs, and always per~ !or~fl<>d the ~ervrce ~fficrently and faithfully. rhat t.h<> office ougnt tD be kept on for <"ver. and that th<;' French people were a lot , . fool.~ for w1pmg out nonsense of that ~~.~n.d · _flu_:- hon. HH:n1ber. who USCS the lllOSt ·ncheuJous arg-lJlllPHt I ever heard, ventures

12~·~·-' as crit~c. of the ~chnini~t~·ation 1·1:(' ,er :1ce. Dc~:hn~. \VItn a1l-

uL~{'l' of thf' cTitici :n va~--ec1 ctl ,.,ht· Y:P 1nl Ye had to dQal

of the ral)bit~ anc1 the allecrcd to l1l·

a -J considera­:VE'ars as they have

fa cot. thP"'C' has iJN 1 to 8top the

a quarter In 190()

droucht­a very

31-5

'.)nu tl:at l think was very neces­- ~w:;_·(• was another BiJl to extend

pnt the unfortunate su{fnrcd a grC'at deal,

:)IICt' 1aorf'. That Bilf 1night not Cll all th J wcs rksircd by the pastora­

OYt'r ::no of them took advantage of !.!:JH ~1a·· c• been ~..;ome advani:nge

in 1902. v,·p had another BilL .~,y- ".Ya.s perhaps the rnost

(:C·IJ<' u.s HiJl that h.•s ever hc'inre <::llv Parliurncnt, as far

A nsrmlia. _\!l these things <' for the pastoralists in

t 110 last few yf'-ar~. The selectors, as far as my

district is conc-=-·-_'dcd, got uo satisfaction out oi the 1902 Bill at all. and you hc:tr nothin; but complaints wherever you go about it. To come back to the question 'Nhy the Govern­rnent is not spending n1ore n1oney on the rabbits. As -a mattor of fact, we spent this money in trying to block the rabbits, and apparently we have spent it altogether unsuc­cessfullv. "\Ye know there are parts of the \Vest ;here the fences are lying down. As the f< nccs v, ere built the rabbits came alone,'· Sonrv imc' they were ahead of the {r :1ces, , on1otinlCs beside then1, and son1e~ 1imes behind thern. Like the soul of the innnortal tTohu Tinnvn, they kept marching on; and novv, hav]ng spent all this money, wc arc told that it is not sufficient; that more must be done, and that our efforts in the past have signally failed. Well. because the Pnmier is not prepared just- now to give way on this matt-er at a time when riJC' riL.tncial coudition of the State is so serious, and when we demand every penny we can possibly saYe, a great deal of indigna­tion has arisen against him. I say, consider­ing the money spent has so signally failed to accomplish its purpose, the Premier is per­fectly justified in the action he has taken. I do not say that these fences have not somewhat dolavecl the adyancc of the rabbits, but so far as c;topping the progress goes I think the1y hu.vc been a failure. I trust hon. mem· hers will undC'rstand that I do not say that the rabbits arn not advancing, or that they a.l'(' not bccon1ing a grcat(~r dangPr: but I ,)o sa·: that the na toralists should con­sider that the Treasurer is not in a po..ition to giYe them further advance'•· [}Hr. STORY: For destruction only.] \Ve have to recognise our financial standing, and if \Ye do not recognise it in time we ,:hall have to recor.mise it later on, and have to ''pay the piper" to a. much ,.roater extent. I notice that the leader of the Opposition sneered at the clearing of land experiments by the unemployed, and said that that had i.1een a failure wherever it was tried. It may haYo been a failure in some directions. hut what I want to know is: \\'hat does the hon. n1ernber propose instead? I did hear one sng-gestion from the other side·-from the hon. rnemLer for :;\Toreton-that the unemployed rnight be put 0:1 to rnake or irnprove roads. bnt th.Jct is open to this difficult:': that it rnay fc)nn a sf.-rious source of con1petition \Vith the

; ra,ilv 1Vi3. fJ\Jr. J. LEAHY: 'That was the ·ques~ ' tion r3.iciec(last. year, and you ~aid you ·vould

tell us all <tbout it this year.] Well. I am telling- you about it now, if you will only have a iittle patience. If the money spent on clearing la.nd in tbis way is a waste of rnoney, then I y;ould like to hear of better methods

sohi11g rh.; UlH-~mployed proble1n. ..\re we on bnilding· places like the nE;· Lands

\ or n1anafacturin:.:;· tank c ngincs and robnl1ding the line~ to fit the enginf'';;?

th, uc1p'_·ovin'"" of gc~od agricultural lands :1s nor; of spending n1oney <.: nd n:a kins~ ready for settle1ncnt.

!:!mt . .P. ~lt:re,y.]

316

I do not kno\v '.Yhnt i.3. I it i2: not a pm·fect scheme, and it may attended to sorne Pxtent v ith failure. like ~}j r:P',Y ~chPine-... [l\Ir. J. LEAHY: :'dr. O'SulliYan tried it in New South \Yales-it is not a ll81Y scherne.-1 It was also tried in :\few Zealand with con: siderable success. But, anyway. "hat is the alternatrYe? Are we going to paupcrise the unc1nploycd \Yith relief rations; to go in for sand-,;hiftiug experiments like ::\lr. O'Sullin.n. and thereby attnct t!w unemployed to the ~cnvus, and rub the sore of public distress m to a cancer? Th0 leader C·f the Opposi­twn also attac~~cd t.hc 'Jln-asurer for "\Vhat he called "raking-in" monev: ]·ut if there

ono thin&" ~ho late GoYel:~ment. through late :.\l1mster for Rmlwavs did it

was to economise in connection w~ith the' rail­ways. [i\1r. J. LEAHY: Yes; and I was black· guarded for it.j No; the hem. member is wrong as far as I am concerned at anv rate. But what is the Treasurer doincr? For one thing, he is bringing the local autl1orities to a sense of their responsibi'Jities-. because. although many of these bodies have acted very well, many of them have been woefully lax. . Some of them seem to have been getting the 1dea that the Government of necessi tv must advance them money, and it was an act of grace for them to meet their responsibili­ties; but there has been a chan~e with regard to the local authorities, and they have been respondmg very well. as the Treasurer has shown that he has received £20,000 more from them than for the same period last year, an.d I venture to ·-ay that they do not thmk :my the worse of him. The ;-erv worst <'nerrJy of these lor,~1l hnrlioc::. ie:. ~ rr ... a..," surer who does not keep them ,{p_t_o ~th;ir -~bli­gatwns-that undermines the '>·hole svstem of local goYernment. Now, the Th'l:'ini;ter for Agncultnre ha.s dealt very fully with the cen\r~l sugar-m11ls: but ther.e are some phases <;f Llf. matter that I would hlm to touch upon. .m th1s connection there is £600,000 at stake. and the. mat~er t~at has not been sufficiently emphasised m th1s debate is this: That the crops have been hypoth<>cated to private bodie~ 1n sornc cases, thns rendering the securitie; of the. State almost valueless, and I think it is htgh hme to stop this. \V e ha Ye heard a o-reat deal of tall~ a.bout socialism, and there i~ one form of socmhsrn-a spurious socialism-which \have a Yery strong objection to. \Yhen a Cxov0;rnme':lt steps in and find•- monev for pubhc vyor~e, and then allo11·s it to be div"erted n;to pnvate. channelR: I s:ty that that is a k:md of spunous s.o01a!1sm which is Yery objec­twnable, and 1t 1s h1gh time something was done t'? put a stop to this. I would rather see pn vate ente~·prise a dozr-n times over than a conservatn-<' socialism of this type. The hon. membey for the Logan dealt with the question of h~sp!tals, but I think we will have to deal w;th 1t m a practical way verv soon. I remember t~e other evening when the hon. m em her for. Carnarvo':' was speaking, he re­ferred to pnvat~ char1ty, and asked him. b-v v. ay of mter}ectwn, had not the channels of pnvate chanty been dried up. and he said they were r;ot dried up. True, they are never dncd. np w1th regard to certain mcll-di"posed lnchvH:lua!R. hut, as far a~ 0ther p(:::ople are con­cerned, the;v havE' been dri'd up long ago. \\;hat does 1t amount to., A deputation c:tine tn me th" other clay on the question of the hospital hPre. and their co1nplaint wa~ that th0 hospit:Jl could not pay ih way. The citv, ···ith a population of near!~, 120.000-sav · about Sd. nor head-had . onh· raised , £3 700 and the result was that· thr hospital . wa~ 1n serious difficulties. :::\(H'i". hn''" does this

~Hon. P. AirP?!.

C:t:-· euHJJJarc •,vith sorne country to\vn.s:­plac~_·;:, like Hnghendcn. Longrcach, and othe! ~rr,all town~ n1mlup:e tb.:]r ho:-;pitals all right. TlH· '\Yal .. \·ick ho~pltal is in a f'OlYent condition. '" 11ell a:' othu- hospitals in the State, and I ;:11.v lhat thi.~ is a reflection on the citv of Bris­bllue. Out in the country it. is no ullconunon thing to see a working rmtn subscribE' £1 to the local hospitaL and the result is that these coun-try hospitals are practicaily on a sound footmg. ~" to'·' n has suffered more from the drought tban Httghenclcn. al!d yet the hospital there;, itt a ooh·e1't po,.ition, simply because the people

contn but2 properly to it. It is said t t!1C' Brisbal!e li o;-.;pit.al is a ba~.~ ho~pital.

but ·· e ha vc to remember that some hospitale are ~tl ad.._,1it.ion bc~nt- \-olcnt hon1es. I "\Vas in thP Blae~:c~E hospital some time ago, and I saw Iwlf n dozen old men who had been living there ff _ \rt'0l~~- aucl yet. it manages to get along. lt i, a plain f.o0t that the voluntary system ha>' bro~_en clo\~-11 in some places, and I am sorry to ea Y in the -,·calthiost town in the State fm one. imd I think it is about time that the yolun­tan Rvstem went bv the board. Here we have a C"~Hn~n1.ittce of ladtes and gentlmnen. who sac­rifice their tinw and monev in a 1nanncr bt',Y'Jlld all prai.se: the contr~ibutions rnainly come from thP charitable portion of the com­rnuuitv. and I am sorrv to sav that that rortin~t of the communvity is vCry much in the Ininority. 'The system is largely an imposi­tioll. and there is no doubt that the business ntC'li c;Z thP city pay ten or hvB11ty times a:;;; n1ueh n ., i hey ought to pay uuder a ju:--t ~ .. Y~te1n. ~\_ stu···gc•.tiou has been thro\\~u out Tlmt the lw··pitals shonld be supported by a cc•rtain nronort1on--:;:av. 50 ner cc11t. or 3U per cent: on tl'" rat0s_:_and that another por­tion should come out of the consolidatf'd l'CYf'llllE'. and another portion from another :-JOlP'CC'. Thi~ is merely a suggestion. but it indicates l10w puhJic opinion is going- on tht:> matter. The public has come to the cou­ciusion-ancl wisely, Too, I think-that the time has come when the hospital should no longer bt> a m<endicant on the highway, but a self­respecting child of the community. \Vhen th~ ho.~pital people corne to the Uovernment and :--av e ,,-nnt a loan. and the Cour:·· r sa vs thi:-­i'h~nlld co1ne out of the consolidated re;-enue. it is jtFt as \Yell that we should recognise that thi> mmwv would have to come out of bor-1'(_1\n:>d rnoiH:>-y. There is no escaping that., and the rwople interested in the Brisbane Ho,pital :'lwuld ren1embor that. i£ 've take certain step~, to 1·eliew this hospital, that in all fairnes> we are l·ocmd to take the same step" with regard to other hospitals. (Hear, hear!) So that, I say, there is no escaping the con­clusion that the voluntary system has signally failed in certain centres of the State, and it io

high time that we adopted some [10 p.m.J other system. I am quite sure

that those who do most for the hospitals-the ladies and gentlemen who man­D'{C them and the commercia] men who SUp­port them-v.ill welcome contributions from the rates, which would make the contribution more general tha::~ it is at the present time. I know it is said that if vou throw the burden on the rates you only c~tch a certain portion of the cornmunitv. That is true. but vou catch a bigger pm~tion than you do at the pre­~ent tin1e. and that ifi something in its favour. [:\lr. CA~U'BELL: Are you going to bring it in this year'] Well, since I have come into this House, I han· fonnd that it is unsafe to prophesy. I remember that hon. memberF opposite had proposals for this year, and where are those proposals no,v? They are buried in

, oblivion. \Yith regard to the question of a

reduction in the nurnber of n1on1bers of the .\ssembly and the referendum, I have always .... poken against a reduction in the nurr1ber of !nornbors, although, at tho same time, I rnust admit that [ do not feel very keenly on the 'ubject. But I can see that if we are to have a reduction. it is going to bring about the ~1ggrandise_rnent. of one or two l;>ig centres. It l') a 11otonou~, fact that the citv ol JJl'i:::-bane l1a~ a grc1,Lcr intlucnce on the ulcgislation of 1:his Charnlt,;:r tha..n any area \Vith a sin1ilar nu• 1bcr of inhabitants in the State, not because of the nu1nber of its repl'esentat.i ves. :mt because ;t is the scat of Gov·ernmcnt. If it had two-thirds of the representation it now has, it vvould still exercise a larger influence u~llL·gi~ 1 _'-ion tlla'J it ha.-; any right to c1o. [I--Iou. c;n· -~- H ,.TLEDl'E: Did vou e•·er hear of tlw influence of the Ipswich or Downs hunch?l Y os. I quite believe that those hunches also exercised an undue influence in this Charnbor. Hon. members know that the North and Ci_'ntro Yoted for fedcratioiL It 1'11as not because they cared for federation but the'' :·ecogniscd that the whole country had heei':! run to a n.ry great extent for the benefit of this !Jig city, and the people said thcv would get level w1th Brisbane. Under these~ circurn-3tances, how can anybody \, onder that people wtth de-rnocrahc tendencies look askance at a -<~hmne for a reduction of the number of 1ncn1-bers in the 1-\.&·,ernbly, even a scherne which is founded on onp vote ono value when 2" man 1d1o has advocated th8 cl~im-; of " couutry dectorate know> t·hat while- the :Jl(·mbcrs nf the \Vest am! ?\orth will suffer a sc•rious diminutio!] of t._heir power in the ;"-'·rmbl_v, where 1t. could never he said they na;l too much, the- mfluence of the metropolis

ul ho Increased. That. however, is not the 'JUC, tion. Tlw real question is that if the elec­tor". s~_, i~hc.J: have too rrtuch representation, and will do w1th hell£ the representation, are we pre:1ared to accept their decision? .. :-\s a man of democratic OJ?inions I should abide by their dem~1on on a refcrcndun1. But when n1embers T<1lk a~o~1t this Charnbcr taking up tho question of deeHllng upon the reduction of mcn1bers. I ;:;• -.k how long tho operation V/ill take? I atn afraid thi~ Chamber "'·'Tou]d fail. and fail ulic>rl_v. fr.)LJ v hat I know of the constitution and or;inion of both sides of the House. Sup­pn if? tnere "·n~ .CL parcel of twenty-four ropes "'r:nt do\vn to t.h1s i\.:-~sen1blv. and we were told to thc'n, and fine! the necks thev fittNl.

when that wa.s deciclccl the ltlC•mbers :"hose necks they fitted should hang themselves trmn leg1siahvc brarns. I ··. ondcr hoYY long it we• U take to allot tho ropes, find out whose

fitte-d the noo ·~s, and then hang them to t:1') New South \Vales took a \vise cnur .e submitting the matter to tho people ~;y :ncnns of a r<?ft•rcndunl, and if we are going lil ~or a n~dnctJon we ~hould adopt a sin1ilar

rhe samo time, I thillk that a the nurnbor of ITlCIT1bcrs will1ncan of po vver in the ru0tropolis out of

to what it should be. ='ievcr­do net advocatP tbe rr0~0nt ...,~~~t.C•·rn

Yl.chich Burke-. Carpentnria, or ~cr~nauhy. f~· hundred electors, should ha-:o the

n1e \~oico in legislation as t-11" C'lcctors in a c]i ~Tict wlwrc they number 2,000 or 3,000. I do not think there is any justice in that. and I ar 1 of opinion that a redistribution of "0ats i') an imp1•ratiYe nccc:::.;:;ifv. V"'\'" e have hoard a lot about- the crimes, faults, follies, and fins of this Gm·emnwnt. In the first pboe it is said that. this Government have not only cut down Pxpencliture, but have also kept clown expendi­ture. I thi_nk that whatever may be the planks of a pohbcal platform, or the merits of a

:317

dw first duty of any Go­e:;ountry at the prt•sont tirne

expenf.1iturc. It ''" ~s owing to t.flC late Goverrnnent realised

btc that th• y lost power in the Treasurer has insisted upon

],.. nlef!r.ing their liabilities. ·vve \Ve ·-;-pre !l,"'oino .. to e-ll their

The~1 \'\7; arc rnaking

attempt to live within our mem"', an att2mpt which I hope in the near future will be successful. \Ve are also trying to live \vithout borro\Ying. But the worst· thing of all that is alleged against us is that 1 ,·e are taking such evidcn t steps towards the a(hraocerncnt of legislation in the matter of rhe ~uffragl? i~·ill. which hon. rnernbers oppo~ it-. hold 1:: such deadly fear. One thwg yen c a11not blind the public to is that at the clo l of the last month we were £218. UOO better off than we were last _vear. [:\lr. 1:'. J. LEAHY: You did not do that.] We '·'·ere £100,000 better off in revenue and the eocpenditure was lower by £118,000: Hon. members may say that we had not much to do with raising the revenue, and there is something in that contention, but we had something to do with keeping down expendi­ture, which hon. members opposite failed to do. [:',lr. J. LEAHY: \Ye prepared the Esti­;na1( .j Hrl1 ' rnuch dld yun save'? The hon. tnember is to sorne extent right in his sug{Yes­tion. There is no doubt that towards the ~ne! of their career the late Government were seized \ ith the necessity of cutting down expenditure, hut the trouble was that they started too late with the operation. It has been alleged that any Government connected with the Labour pm·ty would go in for la.,\'lsh expenditure-sand-shifting- experiments. \\o here have they come in? Hon. members may talk for six months, and they will not blind the public to the fact that we are now £218,000 better off than we were twelve months ago. It was also stated that any Government connected with the Labour party w_ould go in for giving sops to everybody, for g1vmg rehef and pensions whether they were deserved or not. \Vhat are the facts? I find that dc1ring the r.'eek ending on the 23rd :\lay, 1903. tlw 1mmlcer of persons relie,·cd by the C1-o\~entn1~nt \Va._, 2,C54. During thn week enchn ~, on the :!1st ~lay this year T"ve relieved l..t'i",}. The un1onnt spent in the former period "1. a; £283, and in the la iter period £130. I un1 not ~s· -·rtin~-. for a rnonwnt, that this roduction js eutirC'ly due to t1Jo Government, for of conr.:;:.o J kno\v ··ome of the rr1en who havo been relieved haye left the State, and that the pric{~S provisions have gone down hut I mention fact just to show that undo; the p1·esent Government tberc is all in1pulse forward being felt that is for the benefit of the StatP. The return for the last week of :\lay, i, that 1,821 persm1s ,,·ere relieved during t.irae at a co~t of £231 ls. 7 ~d., vvhile !n b-:;t '/-eek of ::\Ir< of the present

ti· tL_~ JlUrll~ '-'l' oi pPrson.., relieved ·was 1.482. aucl the £1:27 3s. Sld. Some hon. mem-' er Ill. ~ .... ou are starvin:r then1 ! " I rcpl::·, it would be impot.siblc to starve indi­\"; .lnub tungh cnouffh to survive the adrninis-tl'atioa of pl'l c.lece.::;s:Jrs. \Vhcre, th011, is rl'L' ~.:riving· ,..;o:r-. f·} eYeryLody'.' TbPn. it \Vas fu:c~hcr. alleged -Ghat if the Labour party got u:~sociated wiLh a.ny party in power, that ·pa1·ty \vnulcl run amuck with every financial insti­tution jn the Staf·"'. I do not think t}Iere is m:y distrust of the present Government by fitJanclal i1l~tltntions at the present tin1e. '\\-e have a TroJ.stJrBl\ \:vbo is a nwmbPr of tlw Labour party. bringinv; in a Bill to relieve a certain financial institution, and also to

Hon. P . .t:lirey.]

318 Addnss i;> ~&p(y. i ASSEJIIIBLY.J Addnss i11 Repf.ij·

rolieYe ti1e StG:..tC>. [.1\!1 hcdoLn·ahle mernl:er: r doHation rna5· possibly not do S01

aud I belie\:; with regard to some of our hospitals instead of lJ0ing better th0 position will be worse. l hope t.hat befor':' the Bill is brought in those

H.elicve;j \Yell, to aosist. and I venture to ::-ay,tlwt \Yhe11 that Bill appears i,t v·i~l b~ found tl) ' ~o nwd'-'rate anJ rEaF!Ill1aule 111 1t~ pro­\·i~ion~ that it \Yill con1n1end itself to everv ~·-·n.-iib!o rntn iH this Ch<1rnbor. The poin~t 1

\Yilere the Oppo•:it-ion earne t'J rief is that tl1ey itna,•·ined that \:ben the ~· lorgan Go­-.-ernlnollt nlf_;t. Parliament rt \\7 nuld be found that the rrr .. C't~Ul'Ol' had marL· thern introd-uce half a dozl..'n extro1ne rnea:'ures. ln the rnoderation of t1:e par.,·ued Ly the UoYcrnrnPnt lies thE' CJf the .:\Iinistr-v. Thu pro·-.::ranune of the V

l'f'3pect3 a peculiar one. they put 10rward may have but the pc:culianty aL >Ut thorn that Lerc is a definite intention l)ehind that prograrnrne. Here wo are three whole months ahead of the usual time. Bills are on the table. That is a tmly disconcerting fact that is paralysing the Opposition, and, as I said before. the State is progre,~sing. \V'- see a good chance of round­in;; the fine.ncial cornc-:r, and the Opposition knows it, and they are unhappy in their know­ledgt I can ;;:ay that the Government is pre­pared to go on, and to face business, and if it c:anuot go on, it is prepared to face the coun­J,ry. [G-ovcrnrnent 1ncn1bers: I-Iear, hear !J It is prepared to face the country in one month, or in nine n1onths. It is prepared to face the country elther upm1 the ba~is of one adult one vote. or upon the basis of the present fran· chis(:_•. It is prepared to face the country every~ wher,.:.. [Goyernrnont members. 1-loar, hear!] The late Go;-ernment, in the estimation of its followers, wa:::. unfit to livo, and '\vhen the tin1o came it was not prepared to die. (Laughter.) As to this clan1our, I seo nothing in the rattling of dry bones to maiw me think the old corpse is ready ior a resurrection. [Govern­ment members: Hear. hear!]

','r. J. CR IllB (Bun,lunlm) : .-'..t this late hour, I sho~tlcl say a few v·ords on om'

Bills that. receive a place in the lik!'lV to COlTH' b('forP US. \V_ith

inc:oiTH: tax. I think that the to £100 should only be granted

I th-iul- t.here are a 11umber not 1

1f' CXClnptcd. \,cho \'\.-·ell tl1c country tO it.s

_[ think all ought tu pay a ll(Jt

think 1-118 !Os. has been harsh) because n1any a -\"tho ha:-' cornplainecl about tlw 10s. he>;

tLa11 thut. iu cHher 1.vay,, nnpro:fit-WI il rnid that

to pitals, I to

[Hon.

r .. n~idoratiun~ will b·~ well thought out by thf' GoYernrncnt, and that they will not alter -r.he present. s.rst(Jrn,. l hope they \vill Lri11 in a Bill to help those who need help. and uot

ist those who. iike the \\.est :Moreton hospi­r!o nolc nDecl a tax levied to help them,

there arc kind-hcartL·d people• who would pn-•f2r voluntary giving·. l wuuld like tu :~ a .. .rorcl in refcroHcc to the rogistnULion of

I t 1tink there is more e.-il in these clubs then~ is in the hot ols, and the n1atter

ha .·e breen attended to many years ago. is more painful than to see a child ten

:·('al's old goi11g across to a club ·vvith a io ,L;('t beer to take home to the family.

the Governn1ent ·will deal strictly with <ttJd will also i11SPrt a clause that the

present Act dealing with hotels ma;' bP car· ricd out. :::lome hotel-keepers have informud ;ne they would gladly close on the Sabbath. but are unable to do no, because if they re­±u"d to supply drink on that day there arc ochcrs who would. and they would, therefore, lose cuskl1ners through it. In connection \Vith the referendum, l WJuld like to say that on two occasions when before my constitutcnts I spoke on the question of reduction of mem­bers. otating that I approved of it, even to the number of fifty. l think fifty men in this House would do just as much good; they would probably not be so anxious for the billet on account of the salary; there would Le more mattnrs to attend to, and the work would bo a great deal better done. I think thGre is no Heed for the referendum. l think the majority of n1E'n1bers haYe spoken in favour of it Lcforo 1 hl'ir consLitnents, and I hope the Premier will not. bring down the Bill. I was sorry the last {_-~on~rnwent did not reduce the number of

n1 her2;. T l1operl tlwy p ou ld hay{~ do11e so. 1 the Premier will take a Yote of the

·e on the matter, and if we arc in favour a rcductjon hen\ ,vby not go on vrith the

lf \Ve arc not 1u favoc_r of a roduc­kt us take a referendum. The

members was £1SO a vear when I lLoro, \~·hich v, as considered a. good I think it was enough to p~y C-'X­

connection with the House. [The :\IIEH: It wa1; for an Ips·rrich ntan.J I

, if there h.: ~1 been anvono outside of \vho was a good m:1n" and unable to

car o·.n1 (~xpenses, and £150 was not suHlcie:rt, the people, for the sako of having him ia I-'arliament, would have raised the r1~oney and gin:;n it to hirn. \Vo have kno\vn instances ·where meJuberb of this J-Iouso-aftcr tuc year bU3-ha,·e asked for the hat to he scut round their electorates and rnoncv 1vas raised in addition to the £1SO, and that' could be dono again. If you are going to put a tax on for the hospital, I think you ought to put a

for koc'ping the m0rnbers, and a.llow to say Y:hat they \Vill pay thon1. \t'.·hon1 I \villin:;

I enjoy <wnn"rc 1 and the

accept ought to

I--!ouse as to 1v hctlH'r of the reduction

:mC'n1bers, and then let us rnako a reduction in the :-,alar:,·. never felt 111oro sorrv than when

raised from £l50 to £300. Did draw it?] I never

n penny is one for you. I also t-hink \VO ought to do "'~Yithout a Governor alto-

. Joint Com;;1i 1"tc~.

gether, seeing we han~ got a Governor-Gen­eraL I do not belie .ce in having a Governor and giving him a smali salary. Do not be nu' an; meanneBs is one of the worst faults we can have. If I have a nice suit, I also like a nice hat; I am not going to have a silk hat and a pair of blucher boot, and mole"kin breeches 011. ]f 1sc \Yant a GoYcrnor let us pay for it; if we are not able to 1"-Y do with­out nuc. I \vould Yot.c against thC' reduction of ,a]at·y of the present GonTnor; hut I would voce• for doing a\ ay with the office altogether. Thoro is one subject I would like to touch on before I finish, and that is the Frauchise Bill. \V" ought to tnHt the people as our friends on this mutter, a::1d if \\ {' do so 1ve shall get on a

deal b~ttcr. ,Just remember that we not be afraid. If we arc not tho men

want ·d, and Y\'C cannot do the [10.30 p.m.] v. ork for the ]Wople. they hill turn

us out. I wanted to mention that, I am not afraid to meet any franchise.

an1 fLu._" people's scr•,cant. and whE-n they do 110t \Yant nu, I c :on gr~t into a corner out of the

I ~ill conclude by moYing the fol-t l the motion before the

Hou~t~ :-rrllat ill qnection "h(•:tll!C11f;e(\ 1Jy the omission from

the Addr( :~s IJt all 1 \1c \nn·d.s tollowin:;:; tile word ·· Son"'rcign" in t.hP llrst p ·.ra;..;raph, alld, tl!e insertion in their lllac::: or tlw r()I:uwhi~ worrh ·-"and \TC 1JC ~~ further to iuform Yom· Exrelloucv t1mt while we recol.!;~obe tllL irnttOTbmcc of ,,ome o.f the snbjccts mittcr1 in Yonr 1~xcrllency'::, reg1·et that. ministratiYe acts o.f Your ~ul\'isers si.nr-c the prorogn.tion of rarlialllcnt ill Xo\·em:Jer h-tst do not meet w~th tlw approv;:J.l of tlti8- Uon~e.''

J\fr. HAKIL\:\; I haYe nmch pleasure in seconding the nwti m proposed by the hoD. mem­ber for Bnnd .11 ba, and in doing· so I llelie-ve I am acting in the be"t interet;t' of the State of ([;IPen . ..:l~wd.

Mr. HURRO\YS (('! a>·ters 1'o;' cl's): I beg- to mm e the adjournment of the de~J<>te.

Question put nud ; and the resurnption of the debate Order of the Day for to-nwrr(HV.

The Houf.1e adio;xrned at t\vtnty-fi,-e n1inutes to 11 o'cl{1ck.

ArldJT;., in Repfy . 319