t5 b64 gao visa docs 1 of 6 fdr- 4-29-03 gao interview re ice investigations re terrorism and visa...

8/14/2019 T5 B64 GAO Visa Docs 1 of 6 Fdr- 4-29-03 GAO Interview Re ICE Investigations Re Terrorism and Visa Revocation 520

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'9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

Prepared by: Kate BrentzelDate Prepared:April 29,203Reviewed by:

I N 5 2 - J iIndex: Type bundle index hereDOC Number: 873107DOC Library: Type library name hereJob Code:320172

Record of Interviewritle Interviewwith JimHayes andPurpose Todiscuss whether the National Security Unit (in the Bureau ofImmigration and Customs Enforcement - BICE) specificallyinvestigates individuals whosevisas were revoked for terrorism

Contact Method In-personinterview\ t P l a c e Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, DepartmentQ f Homeland Security (formerly INS)\Contact Date April 29, 2003BICEJ _|JimHayesarticipantsComments/Remarks:I met withL Jand JimHayes tp follow-up on some questions we had concerning theactions that the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (BICE)'s National Security Unitinvestigators takes on visa revocations (OnMarch 1,2003,INSceased to exist and was split intoseveral bureaus under the DepartmentofHomeland Security; the National Security Unit becamepart ofBICE). \, the end recipient of both the faxed visa revocation certificates and the revocatio

\m the State Department is]_I whetherl

Js LookoutUnit. I asked L Jand Mr.HayesJever notified them that certain visas had been revoked. They said that she

|sometimes notifies them about avisa revocation for an individual inTIPOFF but that shedoes not . *I typicallynotify them about most general revocations.

Jsaid that even if his investigators were notified of a revocation, that there is not muchaction that National Security Unit can take against the person with the revoked visa unless thereare other charges against the person. He stated several times that there was not much point in

/ havinghis investigators locate persons with revoked visas who had entered the country because* revocation is not grounds for removal. Hesaid that the Immigrationand NaturalizationAct (INA)should be amended so that revocation is a removable ground. Mr.Hayes agreed that ifvisarevocation were grounds for removal this would give the government another tool to fightterrorism - ifthere is derogatory information on someone, then BICE could locate the personandremove himeasily.

Pagel Record of Interview


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9/11 Law Enforcement Privacy

Prepared by: Kate BrentzelDate Prepared: April 29,203Reviewed by:Index: Type bundle Index hereDOC Number: 873107DOC Library: Type library name here

Job Code:320172

I f

I asked|_ Jwhether there was anypolicy in the National Security Unit as to how visarevocations should be handled, specifically for individuals who had already entered the United

j States. He said that NSUdoes not have a policy on this. Hepointed out that NSU is an^investigation unit, white the Lookout Unit (which was part of INSInspections division and is now

part of the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection - BCBP) handles revocations. Mr. Hayessaid that the Lookout Unit, as part of Inspections division, needs to receive revocation

\s from State because inspectors at the ports ofentry are the ones tasked with keepingouj aliens who do not have valid visas: In the case that someone enters the United States beforehisVisa is revoked, the inspectors need to have notice of the revocation in case the person leaves$nd Attempts to re-enter.[_ Jstressed that NSUdoes not have a policy on locating orinvestigating visa revocation cases since revocatidns have always been an "inspection function."H^ said that NSU could investigate individuals to see if they were violating the terms of theiradmission, (for example, by overstaying the time they were granted by the inspector to stay in the

} \dStates or by taking a ob even though hey entered on a student visa), but the law ( INA)

\idoeS not make a visa revocation, in and of itself, illegal for the individuals to stay in the country.

i Itold[ Jand Mr. Hayes that of the 240 visa revocation cases we examined,\ y 27 of these individuals had entered the UnitedStates before their visas were\d an d ijhat th e Non-Immigration Information System (NIIS) did not have departure dates fo r

i them. I askedvthem if NSU would have the resources to investigate that many people, f |I [said that his unit could probably handle that number of investigations but that he did not

know what the p\oint would be to investigate these people when they cannot do anything to removethem. \g

Currently, the end recipient of both the faxed visa revocation certificates and the cables is theLookout Unit. Iasked]_ Jand Mr. Hayes if it would make sense to have State send visarevocation certificates or cables to NSU as well as to the Lookout Unit, which is in inspections.

Page 2 Record of Interview


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Law Enforcement Privacy

Prepared by: Kate Brentzel Index: Type bundle index hereDate Prepared: April 29,203 DOC Number: 873107Reviewed by: DOC Library: Type library name hereJob Code:320172They said that this might be a good idea. Mr. Hayes also said that it would be helpful ifStatewouldgive NSUinvestigators the derogatory information that explained whyt\\e visa was revoked.

I asked them if NSU asever involved with giving derogatory information on individuals toStatethat leads to revocations!] ]said that he has no knowledge of NSU investigators evergiving State information that leads to revocation. Mr.Hayes said that he did not think that INSunits overseas did intelligence investigations overseas that would lead to revocations.

Condor .7 InvestigationiiM r. Hayes gave me an update on the investigation that NSU did into the 7 Condor cases (NSU 1 1

started an investigation of these 7 Condor cases country because of Congressional interest in the\. M r. H

revoked visas who are in the United States). Mr.Hayes said 4 of the 7 have been located and that} i7 "they are in-status and complying with the terms of their admission. He said that the investigators j lscrutinized their applications and searched for elements of fraud but found no problem with any of them. One individualwas identified as having relocated to Canada. Two of the 7 were not located Iand the investigators found no evidence that they were ever here and no evidence that they were ' here but left the country. They could find no "public footprints"of these two individuals - no bankrecords, postal records, etc. Hesaid that it is possible that they entered and subsequently left thecountry and it is also possible that they are here and living under different names. He said thatthey have not closed the cases on these two but that they have no further informationor leads to!investigate. "*"Au&fei* f^'U - "& &/?J? ^?-L>^"cf A-?,. I / . , $I , 3M r. Hayes told me, as he did in our first interview W I C n nlm, that they had received n6 aerogatoryinformation on the Condor7 from any source. Hesaid that they checked FBI and CIAdatabases totry to find derogatory information on them but found nothing. I asked him if they asked theForeign Terrorist Tracking Task Force for the derogatoryinformation since it was the FTTTF thatoriginally developedthe recommendation that the individuals should not receive visas. Hesaidthat he was not aware of asking the FTTTF for this information or if any of his colleagues had done

9/11 Personal PrivacyPage 3 Record of Interview


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