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Prepared by: L.G. TharpesDate: June 21, 2002 Index:DOC Library: Goal 2

Job Code: 320101 DOC Number 151288;Impact on ExternalRelations, BelgiumReviewed by: Cheryl GoodmanReview Date: 7/15/02Record of Interview

Purpose To Discuss Potential Implications of Eliminating the VisaWaiver Program

Contact Method Meeting

Contact Place U.S. Embassy, Brussels, Belgium

Contact Date June 10, 2002

U.S.EmbassyParticipants

GAO

Steven Candy, Acting Political CounselorAngela Dawkins, Acting Commercial CounselorEric Benjaminson, Economic CounselorCarolyn Johnson, Public AffairsJoseph Pomper, ConsulCheryl Goodman, Assistant DirectorLa Verne Tharpes, Senior AnalystLyric Clark, Analyst

Comments/RemarksPublic AffairsOfficer

The embassy officials made the following comments. Most Belgians are aware that the September 11terrorists entered theUnited States with validvisas. Theyare also aware of the failuresofthe U.S. agencies, for example lack of cooperation among intelligenceagencies. They are also aware of the vulnerabilities of their passportand the Belgian government's efforts to correct the problems. If the

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Prepared by: L.G. TharpesDate: June 21, 2002Job Code: 320101Index:DOC Library: Goal 2DOC Number 151288:

EconomicCounselor

CommercialCounselor

U.S. excludedBelgium from the visa waiver program; the Belgianswould analyzethe facts. They would conclude that the U.S isblamingthen when the fault lies with the U.S. agencies. They would ask whythey are being blamed especially since they have corrected theproblems with their passports. The European Union would have thesame response.The press and the public have displayed interest in the visa waiverreview team visit. However, the embassy has not made anyannouncement or provided any specific information other than to saythat Belgiumwas among the first tranche of countries to be visited.The Ministry of Foreign Affairs made similar statements. The Belgianelites are very informed about this issue and the passport problem,which has been covered by the press.

U.S. businesses have about $21billion invested in Belgium. There isconstant business travel. More importantly, Belgium is theheadquarters of the European Union and NATO. If the U.S. removesBelgium from the visa waiver program, Belgium would require visasfrom U.S. citizens and lobby for all Schengen Agreement countries torequire visas from U. S. citizens. He does not know how this wouldaffect travel to the U.S. The problem may not be that Belgian will notget U.S. visas, but that the Belgian government maylack the resourcesto meet the demand for visas from U.S. travelers. This mayresult inlong delays for U.S. citizens wanting to travel to Belgium.U.S./EU relations are already stretched. Elimination of the visa waiverprogram wouldjust add to the problem.The Belgians could do more against terrorism. If the U.S. dropsBelgium from the visa waiver program it would shock the Belgians.Maybe elimination of the visa waiver program would force them to re-evaluate their attitudes.Elimination of the visa waiver program would probably not effecttrade.

The Foreign Commercial Service helps U.S. small and medium-sizedbusiness to enter the European market. There are alreadyimpediments for these companies to conduct business here. Therequirement of a visa may be seen as one more impediment anddiscourage these businesses.The Foreign Commercial Service also has a program to encourageBelgian tour companies to offer tours to the United States. Therequirement of a visa to visit the U.S, could negatively impact thisprogram. Belgians have many other countries they canvisit. They arevery well traveled. They may visit Spain or Canada instead of theUnited States.Requiring visas may also affect the Commercial Office's resources.Many Belgian citizens will contact the commercial officer to inquireabout visas and request recommendations.

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Political Counselor

Passport Issues

Visas As A LawEnforcement Tools

Belgium shares the U.S. concerns about terrorists. It does not want tobe a conduit for terrorists to get into the United States.If the U.S. removes Belgium from the visa waiver program, theBelgians would see themselves as a target ofU.S. blame. Belgianwould say that their removal of the program was unjust and look tothe other Schengen countries for redress. There would be questionsthat the U.S. would have to answer: what is our aim, how will removalof the visa waiver program achieve it, what did the Belgians dowrong,and how can they fix it? Mr. Candy stated that he has not heard goodanswers to these questions.Removal of Belgium from the visa waiver program could affect U.S.Belgium cooperation at a time when it is really needed. For example,the economic counselor has asked the Belgium to freeze the assetsoforganizations with links to terrorists without providing evidence ofthose links. The Belgian government has complied despite legal risks.If we remove Belgium from the visa waiver program it may seem tothe Belgians that we do not believe they are cooperating even thoughthey are helping us.Stolen or counterfeit Belgian passports are used primarily to get intoBelgium because of its social welfare program and not into the UnitedStates. Many were coming from France en route to England, whichhas better social programs than Belgium.The oldversion ofthe passport could still be used to obtain a visa.However, they will be invalid in a few years. Moreover, the Patriot Actrequires machine-readable passports by October 2003to travel underthe visa waiver program.Belgium became a participant of the visa waiver program in 1991, butdidnot move to machine-readable passports until 2001. TheGovernment of Belgium wanted to wait until passport issuance wascentralized before it began issuing a machine-readable visa.Centralization began in 1998.

The visa interview is an effective tool for detecting intendingimmigrants. It is not effective for screening out criminals. Forexample, Mr.Benjaminson stated that when he was a consular officerin Nigeria, a high fraud post, it was difficult to keep track of the fraudschemes. He was always years behind. The screening is also noteffective inweeding out terrorists if they do not have criminal recordsin the United States.

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