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Vietnamese American Oral History Project, UC Irvine Narrator: NGUYẾN ĐÌNH CỪƠNG Interviewer: Thúy Võ Đặng Date: May 5, 2012 Location: Irvine, California Sub-Collection: Thuy Vo Dang Interviews Length of Interview: 02:00:46 Transcriber: Giang Doan Translator: Joe Reinsvold

This is Thuy Vo Dang, with the Vietnamese American Oral History Project. Today is May 5,

2012. I am in Irvine, California, interviewing Mr. Nguyen Dinh Cuong.

TVD: To begin with could you state your name and date of birth?

NDC: My name is Nguyen Dinh Cuong. I was born September 12, 1942 in Hanoi, Vietnam.

TVD: Could you state your parents’ names?

NDC: My father was Nguyen Dinh Suong and my mother was Nguyen Thi Diem. They both

lived in Hanoi.

TVD: What were your parents’ occupations?

NDC: My father was a public works contractor in Hanoi before 1954. My mother just sold fabric

at Dong Xuan market in Hanoi.

TVD: How many siblings are there in your family?

NDC: I have one brother who is 12 years older than I am, he was a lieutenant-colonel in the

armed forces of the Republic of Vietnam, and currently lives in Houston, Texas.

TVD: So there’s only the two of you?

NDC: It’s just the two of us in my family.

TVD: Could you talk a little bit about your memories of growing up in Hanoi?

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NDC: I was born and raised in Hanoi in 1942, at a time when Hanoi was still peaceful but I can’t

remember. Since in 1946, war broke out between the Vietnamese and French, and the Hanoi

residents left Hanoi towards other areas following the Viet Minh evacuation front and my family

evacuated to Phu Tho, a province in the northern highlands. After that just a short time later

many were stricken with malaria, my paternal grandfather and grandmother, and several uncles,

and cousins died in the Phu Tho region, due to malaria. So my parents decided to return to Hanoi

in 1948. I had just turned 6 at that time, and I went to study at Sinh Tu school, which is the

elementary school Ly Thuong Kiet Hanoi. Then in 1954, I migrated to the South. When I was

living in Hanoi I was too young to have many memories, and what I mostly remember was the

big theater, with beautiful French architecture, the governors mansion which later became a

visiting palace for the head of state Bao Dai. And going down to the parks like Canh Nung

gardens, and Con Coc gardens. I even remember the botanical gardens, but there were only trees

left, there were no more wild animals left because on Nung Mountain, where my father was from

they had cut down the trees. My mother’s village Mai Dich, or Vong village, the village which

produced the delicious green rice flakes (cốm) that Hanoi people liked to eat. My memories of

Hanoi are very vague because I was only 12 at the time, I couldn’t wander around very much

because at home they kept a very close eye on me back then, I was the youngest in the family.

That’s why I don’t have many images of Hanoi.

TVD: Before your family migrated to the South of Vietnam, can you, what do you think your

family’s social class was?

NDC: Actually we were in the Hanoi middle class back then. My father was a public works

contractor like I already mentioned. So you could consider us pretty much middle class.

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TVD: Do you have any memories about your experiences going to school when you were

twelve?

NDC: I studied from grade 5 until the top grade level, that is what is now first to 5th grade. From

the age of 6 until the age of 12 and then right after I had just finished elementary school in June

of 1954 the Geneva accord split the nation in two and was signed on October 20, after which we

migrated to Dalat because my older brother was an officer in the national army back then, in the

area of finance, under the imperial head of state Bao Dai. He (my brother) lived in Dalat, so he

met us in Hanoi and brought us back with him. Therefore my parents, along with myself made

three people and with him it was four, we went directly to Dalat on August 20. On August 20,

1954 I was already in Dalat. After that I took an entrance exam to get into the home economics

major and studied at Phuong Mai school in Dalat, the precursor of what is now Bui Thi Xuan

school. But that happened sometime later on.

TVD: The war between the Vietnamese and the French, besides the affect of forcing your family

to migrate to the South, do you think it had any other affect on your life or on your family?

NDC: We were very fortunate to have migrated in 1954, because if we had stayed the future of

both my family and myself would certainly have been very bleak, who knows if I might have

become a fighter leaving my bones behind on the Ho Chi Minh trail somewhere. Because all my

relatives in the North had a hard life, and my generation at that time grew up in the midst of war,

and they were at war against the Americans and my relatives, many of my cousins died, many of

the friends who were my age died. After 1975, I was only able to contact a few of them, since

most of my friends had sacrificed their lives in the war.

TVD: So when you think back and remember that period of time, what do you think was the

biggest affect of that war?

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NDC: The war between the Vietnamese and French?! Actually at that time we were only living

in Hanoi, and the fighting in areas like Nam Dinh, Hung Yen, or other far away places didn’t

affect me much back then, since I was still too little. But I’m sure my parents were more affected

than I was. All I knew was to go to school, then go back home. And it was during 1954 that we

were able to emigrate to Dalat already, therefore I wasn’t affected much.

TVD: Did they teach you anything about the war in school?

NDC: Oh, not at that time. In my elementary school they didn’t talk about it. The only thing was

that back then we saluted the yellow flag with three red stripes every morning, and sang the

national anthem which is the song we still sing. Because at that time when Bao Dai was the head

of state, when France gave Vietnam its independence, Bao Dai was our country’s leader. He

even had his own chief of staff so that’s basically how it was. In general the schools didn’t bring

in politics back then, the time when I was still in elementary school.

TVD: Do you remember any special teachers during that time?

NDC: I remember all my elementary school teachers from grade 5 until the top grade. First was

my teacher Miss Nuyen Tien Dung, who later became a professor at Trung Vuong school. I

recently found my teacher 3 years ago. Actually she had also migrated in 1954 but I was still

little and didn’t contact her. It wasn’t until I came to the U.S. 3 years ago that I located her, she is

now living right in Little Saigon so I often visit and communicate with her. She is 85 years old

now. Then (each year) came another teacher. I remember after Miss Dung, my grade 4 teacher

was Mr. Ngo Dang Loi, grade 3 was Mr. Nguyen Qua, then for grade 2 it was Ms. Nguyen Thi

Nghia, and for the top grade level it was Mr. Vu Nam Viet. Those were the teachers I had in

elementary school. I also remember many of my teachers from when I moved to Dalat. I have a

very good memory when it comes to my teachers.

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TVD: Regarding your friends in elementary school, do you remember anything about them?

NDC: Until now I’m very lucky that I have one close friend, who studied with me during the

years starting with Miss Nguyen Tien Dung until our top grade teacher Vu Nam Viet, his name is

Le That Luyen. He later went to Saigon and studied at Chu Van An, studied overseas in 1961, he

became an engineer for Phillip company and is the husband of the female writer Thuy Khue, the

author of a research book on the fine works of art in human civilization, which is coming out

soon in Little Saigon next month. Le That Luyen is the only friend I have left from elementary

school.

TVD: So in 1954 you were living in Dalat and entered middle school (high school).

NDC: Yes, I started seventh grade at Phuong Mai middle school in Dalat. But in 1955 when I

was in sixth grade my father got a job with the engineer corps in Nha Trang, therefore my whole

family, my parents and I moved to Nha Trang. In Nha Trang I studied at Vo Tanh Nha high

school from 1955 until 1961 when I completed my high school diploma. During those 5 years we

lived a pleasant life in Nha Trang city, the beautiful seaside city of which you already know.

Therefore I have many lovely memories of that city. But during that time period images of war

were never far away. After 1961, you know there was the presence of the liberation front and the

Viet-cong started their military campaign into the South. That’s the history which perhaps you

already know about but I’ll repeat it for you anyhow. So to give you a brief timeline I graduated

from high school in 1961 after which I entered Dalat university for one year where I took faculty

of arts preparatory classes, from ’61 to ‘62. After 1962 I passed the entrance exam to get into

Saigon Teachers’ College, so I moved to Saigon to study from 1962 till 1965, receiving my

degree in Sino-Vietnamese studies from Saigon Teachers’ College. When I graduated in 1965, I

taught at Kien Phong high school, Cao Lanh, in the Dong Thap Muoi region. Up until 1969,

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after the Tet Offensive (Mau Than lunar new year) required all the teachers, we had to get

military instruction for nine weeks, and because I was at Kien Phong I received my nine-week

military training at the Toc Son training center, in Chau Doc, and only had to study for nine

weeks before being allowed to go back to teaching. After returning from military training in

1969, I personally got to transfer to Duc Trong high school, Tien Duc, 30 kilometers from Dalat.

At that time I still lived in Dalat with my parents, since they had already retired from working in

Nha Trang and moved back to Dalat. I worked at Duc Trong school from morning until

afternoon. Every week I taught around 20 hours at Duc Trong. After school, I worked extra

hours at private schools in Dalat. I taught at Thien Huong, a Catholic middle school, Tri Duc

school, a Catholic high school, and Couvent des Oiseaux, a religious high school in Langbian.

TVD: Can you repeat again what subject it was that you taught?

NDC: I primarily taught Vietnamese literature.

TVD: During the time when you were still in high school, you said you had a story about a

teacher that you would like to mention?

NDC: Many of my teachers, back then, (deserve mentioning) but the teacher who left the deepest

impression on me was Cung Dung Nguyen, a middle school teacher of mine. He was an erudite

scholar, and taught us philosophy during my time in middle school. He was a great teacher, and

he left a profound impression on me. He died at the age of 100, just a few years ago in Nha

Trang. He lived for 100 years before passing away in Nha Trang.

TVD: Why did he leave such a deep impression on you?

NDC: He taught very well, made the subject very interesting. Philosophy is a very dry subject for

high school students to study, that’s because it’s not until high school following the middle

school years that philosophy is taught. It’s a very hard subject to ingest, but he was able to

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convey it to us in a very clever way, and even though I have to admit that learning philosophy

wasn’t crucial for us in order to pass our high school graduation exams, or section A, but we still

couldn’t get below-average grades, that we knew. He had a great teaching technique, and was

really engaging. Of course besides that he left a profound impression due to his artistic

appearance, all the other teachers held him in high esteem. There were others but too many to

mention all of them here. Since you asked me about the topic of teachers that made a deep

impression on me Cung Dung Nguyen immediately came to mind.

TVD: You say it was the subject of philosophy?

NDC: Yes, philosophy.

TVD: That’s a hard subject to teach.

NDC: Yeah, harder to teach than it is to study.

TVD: What was the reason that caused you to choose Vietnamese literature as your field?

NDC: Back then we couldn’t, that is the profession chose for us. Our generation after finishing

high school in 1960 we would take exams to enter various professional trade schools, for

example agriculture and forestry, teaching, or administration. After graduating from high school

we applied to and tested for all the schools. I applied for national administration but failed, I

applied for agriculture and failed again, not until 1962 did I pass the entrance exam for Saigon

teachers’ college. I applied for the Sino-Vietnamese major and passed again, so that’s how I

became a teacher of Vietnamese literature. I had also been quite proficient at Vietnamese studies

going back to high school even though I studied A track.

TVD: Did you write anything that got published?

NDC: I’m a very cautious person when it comes to writing. That’s because the more I study the

more I feel that my knowledge is still limited. After researching literature or even Buddhism, I

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still feel that my knowledge is not yet adequate to write about a work in a strict and serious

manner. I have reviewed a few short stories, and I don’t write poetry since I’m very bad at it, but

I can read and recite poetry, that I know how to do. Therefore regarding the matter of my own

creative work I haven’t produced anything of significance.

TVD: But in your experiences taking part in organized activities in Vietnam back then, back

when you were a high school teacher did you participate in any activities? For example with

friends, at school as well as outside of school.

NDC: Actually back then we only held organized activities at school, but more for professional

rather than for teaching purposes. I graduated in 1965, when the war situation was beginning to

boil over. During our time off we would often go back to Saigon, from Kien Phong I would

return to Saigon or go over to Long Xuyen, then travel to Can Tho to visit with friends, back

then we didn’t belong to any organizations, neither literature related nor political, none

whatsoever.

TVD: Let me go back and ask some more about your personal history specifically how you met

your wife. Could you talk a little bit about your experience as students or whenever it was you

two first met?

NDC: I wasn’t expecting the questions would shift in this direction, onto a topic I really like. I

just don’t know if it’s too strange to talk about my personal life.

TVD: Not at all. I want to record your stories so that your descendants can hear them too- your

grandchildren are very interested to know.

NDC: So you’re asking about my love life. Before I met my wife I had a few other girl friends

but that was until I met my wife, in the year1969, I was a teacher coming from Kien Phong to

serve as a high school examiner in Can Tho. My wife was also an examiner, teaching at Phong

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Phu high school, 20 kilometers away from Can Tho. She was a principal of a high school over

there. We met each other while on the examining council, so of course we got to know each

other, but what I didn’t expect was that she was from Dalat, my wife was born and raised in

Dalat. Because my wife’s parents came to Dalat in 1942, her father was also a public works

contractor, working with a French contracting firm, who first came to develop Dalat city. After

seeing how beautiful Dalat was, he came from Hanoi to beautiful Dalat bringing his entire family

along. And so my wife was born in Dalat in 1945, which was also the year of the famine in the

north (At Dau lunar year). My wife went to Doan Thi Diem elementary in Dalat and after that

Bui Thi Xuan Dalat high school, later attending Dalat university before entering Saigon teachers’

college, and after graduating went to teach in Can Tho, specifically Au Mon, Phong Phu. Going

back to when I met my wife during that high school exam period, after we got to know each

other better for a period of time we fell in love and agreed to get married during the month

before Christmas in 1970. That’s roughly how it all happened. Basically two teachers met during

a high school examination period became friends and fell in love.

TVD: Could you tell me a little bit about your courtship, as well as becoming friends, what

activities did you do together, and where?

NDC: Well, in truth, that seems a little bit personal. Dr., you’ve just asked me a personal

question which I’m not sure how to answer. Generally speaking at the time when I first met my

wife, I was a quite the catch and had many admirers in Can Tho. But I was also just one of her

admirers, yet for some reason be it pre-destiny, or destiny’s good fortune it allowed for me to be

with her.

TVD: So when the two of you were getting to know each other, what did you usually do

together? For example go out with friends, or go to the movies.

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NDC: Oh, nothing really. Both of us being teachers, I simply would go visit her in Can Tho,

because she was boarding at the house of another female teacher from Phan Thanh Giang school,

Can Tho. But after that when I had to go teach I would take the bus to Phong Phu to teach, then

go back to Can Tho. Every time I would come over, instead of going out, we would just sit in the

living room talking. I sent my wife many love letters and eventually she accepted in the summer

of 1970, accepted me, so we went through the formal engagement rites from the summer of 1970

until winter of the same year, and got married officially before Christmas of 1970. Not until we

returned to Dalat did we dare go out on dates together, my wife being from Dalat. I too

considered myself a person from Dalat because I returned to live there in 1969, and stayed. We

had a lot of friends in Dalat, and we were recognized as Dalat locals. Well enough about that you

ask so many questions I’m getting embarrassed!

TVD: I would also like to know because my generation doesn’t know about the traditional

customs of the prior generation, particularly how couples dated after meeting.

NDC: Of course we dated. Back then I was quite bold when it came to meeting girls. But it

wasn’t until my wife agreed to marry me did we ride around the city together by Honda

motorbike. And as soon as we took a ride together around the Hoa Binh area of Dalat several

people would happen to see us and point us out, that’s pretty much how it was. But that was just

us, I know a lot of other people liked to do other things. In fact we didn’t even go to the cinema

together back then, we simply would go out to the market and back. Not until after our

engagement did we actually go to the cinema and out to eat together, go up to Cu Hill, we have

a lot of pictures from there, along with the scenery of Dalat. Especially later on after we were

married.

TVD: Could you tell me what the wedding ceremony was like?

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NDC: Basically after my wife accepted my proposal I invited my parents to come and organize

what was called the plighting ceremony, which is when the groom’s family comes and asks for

permission from the bride’s family to become acquainted, in other words when the parents from

both sides meet. Then the following August we became officially engaged.

TVD: Was that like an engagement ceremony?

NDC: Yes, it’s the engagement ceremony, where they bring the traditional betel leaves and areca

nuts to offer to the family ancestors so that they will accept the future groom, son-in-law of that

family. And when getting married there was yet another ceremony, because we were both

Buddhist. Actually I wasn’t yet a devout Buddhist back then, so our wedding only consisted of

both families performing a ritual paying homage to the ancestors, after which we held a reception

with friends at a restaurant, that was it. We then became husband and wife. But we followed all

the traditional rites, plighting ceremony, engagement ceremony, wedding.

TVD: What did the two of you wear during the wedding?

NDC: I wore a suit while my wife wore a traditional ao dai dress, it was pink I can still

remember it, along with a bridal crown during the reception at night. Vietnamese weddings

weren’t as ostentatious, or fussy as the weddings you all have nowadays. Your generation has so

many requirements. We were more simple back then.

TVD: So after the wedding, where did you both live?

NDC: After being married for a time my wife was able to get transferred back to Dalat to teach

at Bui Thi Xuan school, as for me after the time from 69-72 I was transferred to teach at Tran

Hung Dao school in Dalat. Bui Thi Xuan was a girl’s school, while Tran Hung Dao was a boy’s

school. We taught from 1972. We taught for three years until 1975 when we were dismissed.

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!975 was also the time when my wife became pregnant, she became pregnant rather late. We got

married in 1970 but she didn’t get pregnant until 1975. My wife gave birth on March 24, 1975,

one week before the administration in Dalat evacuated. I’m sure you all know that the situation

in Vietnam in March of 1975 was extremely turbulent. After losing Ban Me Thuot, and then

Central Vietnam, Dalat also shook. So on the night of April 1 Dalat military leaders,

administrative offices, the military leaders were always politically well connected, evacuated

along with the police and armed forces out of the Dalat zone towards Tam Giang, and later

Saigon. My wife gave birth on March 24, which was one week after the evacuation of Dalat, thus

we were stuck there. I was one of the people who witnessed the takeover of Dalat when the

communist forces snuck into the city. They called themselves the liberation army, and infiltrated

the city, and from April 1st to the 4th Dalat was a city without leadership, before there was a

committee made up of locals and religious leaders, who formed a self-governing citizens’

council, between April 1 and April 4. After that on April 4 the liberation army set up a military

council, which is now the city council. Dalat was very chaotic during those first four days. I

wrote and published a brief memoir about the time I lived in Dalat. If you like I can send it to

you today.

TVD: Thank you. Just now when I was asking about your relationship and marriage I forgot to

ask what was your wife’s name?

NDC: Since you didn’t ask I didn’t mention it. My wife’s name was Do Thi Tien.

TVD: You also said that your first child was born in March of 1975.

NDC: Yes, our first son.

TVD: What was your son’s name?

NDC: My son’s name is Nguyen Dinh Mac Huy.

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TVD: Who was it who chose his name?

NDC: I did. Both of us really liked the name Huy. And I basically added in the name Mac so his

name would consist of four words.

TVD: Could you explain a little bit about both your name and that of your family? Nguyen

Dinh?! I know that there’s a really interesting history behind the name Nguyen Dinh.

NDC: The family name Nguyen Dinh goes way back. My ancestor was Nguyen Dinh Xi,

referred to historically as Nguyen Xi, a meritorious official under King Le Loi, during the

fifteenth century according to Vietnamese history. He helped King Le Loi a great deal in the

struggle against the Ming army. And afterwards he became a high ranking mandarin, an official

of exceptional merit under the Le dynasty. When he retired there was much turmoil within the

dynasty, along with coup plots and attempts to control the royal court. I apologize if I’ve

remembered the facts wrongly. So after that he found out those responsible, quelling the unrest,

those loyal to the dynasty appointed prince Le Thanh Ton as king. So that was Nguyen Xi, my

ancestor, the high royal minister. He’s also often referred to historically as Nguyen Dinh Xi, but

they leave off the name Dinh, but actually we got the surname Nguyen Dinh from him. He had

fifteen children, to be more correct it was sixteen sons, but the youngest died at an early age,

therefore his sons went everywhere working as mandarins, as well as doing business, to earn

their living. My Nguyen Dinh ancestors spread out and increased over time. Of course all

Vietnamese families have a similar history. So there you have it we are the descendants of

Nguyen Dinh Xi. As well as the doctorate scholar Nguyen Hanh Tu, who later on became one of

the scholars to have his name engraved on a stone statue within the Temple of Literature in

Hanoi.

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TVD: Going back briefly to the discussion of March and April of 1975, can you personally

remember where you and your family were, and what you were thinking at the time?

NDC: Yes, actually myself, my wife gave birth on March 24, while on April 1st Dalat was

evacuated, meaning the city government and army in Dalat evacuated to Phan Giang, and then

Saigon. So on the night of April 1st I watched the city of Dalat, with all the government offices

including the police station, administrative buildings, Chu Hoi stadium, they set fire to it at 7 or 8

in the evening, and all night long the munitions depots at Cam Ly, as well as at the military

training grounds were destroyed and burned, and throughout the night of April 1st, Dalat

convulsed. By April 2 Dalat was in anarchy. Robberies occurred in the abandoned homes near

the market, and then there were the people wearing red armbands supposedly maintaining order,

then several citizens formed a self-governing council comprised of several superior monks and

nuns from Dalat’s Linh Son temple, along with a secretary general who was the artist Kiem Van

Sy living in Dalat, and a vice-president who was a professor from Bui Thi Xuan school in Dalat;

they set up a self-governing citizens’ council, and a businessman living on Duy Tan street set up

a self-governing citizens’ council. They then called for the officials and employees of the old

regime to come forth. At about 4 o’clock in the afternoon on April 2nd we appeared before the

self-governing citizens’ council in front of the Hoa Binh area of Dalat, and I can still remember

the two youths sitting at a table where we had to form a line and register our names. I think at the

time they were probably confused about what to do, anyways that’s roughly what happened. On

April 4th the liberation army began to appear, entering the city, and then established the people’s

committee, and military administrative council of Dalat city. It was at that time that the

administrative government which they called the “revolutionary” government gradually took

form, and they gradually incorporated the activities of Dalat residents into the communist way of

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doing things. There were unless meetings and committees. Within the teaching field I belonged

to there was the patriotic educators association comprised of teachers who were partial (to the

party). Some teachers just went along, paying lip-service but who knows how sincere they really

were, while others through pretense took advantage of the opportunity to take control of the

patriotic teachers association of Southern Vietnam, in order to take over our jobs. In other words

we had to study politics. On April 15 while we were seated in the Bui Thi Xuan meeting hall

studying our first course on politics, at that time Saigon had not yet fallen, and things there were

still in disorder. And when we were studying politics, on April 30th, when Saigon (rather) Mr.

Duong Van Minh surrendered a cadre came running into the hall, I was studying at the Bui Thi

Xuan meeting hall, and as he was holding reins announced that: “Ho Chi Minh city has been

liberated.” That was the first time we heard Saigon referred to as “Ho Chi Minh city”. That was

the time when they renamed Saigon as Ho Chi Minh city. Of course there were some people who

expressed their joy by applauding, while others slumped in despair, never expecting the South

would lose like that. To be honest all I personally wished for was that my wife would get a little

healthier, for had Saigon remained stable, we would have found a way to sneak off to Saigon

later on. But since my wife had just given birth a week earlier we had to give up that idea. It

wasn’t until two years later that we organized our escape. In 1977, there were a few of my

friends who were also former Dalat teachers, and who had been in Saigon for quite some time

already, well those guys organized, bought a fishing boat, and then we contacted them from

Dalat, our friends in Saigon that is, and then made our escape by sea, on June 27, 1977 we

escaped by sea leaving from My Tho.

TVD: Could you talk a little bit about the two years living under the new regime?

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NDC: It was a nightmare! That was the darkest period for the people in the South. The problems

arising from a lack of money, food and medicine, and everything put together created what was

the darkest period the South ever had to live through. And that’s not to mention the issue of

ideology, they crammed politics (into us), and then there was one thing that really discouraged us.

Alongside the cadres from the North, northern police officers had come to rule over the South,

there were also a number of people who left us extremely disappointed, they were opportunists,

and even included a number of southern intelligentsia. Right in Dalat city specifically there were

several people who over-zealous in their support of the liberation forces, they manipulated and

sacrificed their own friendships. Upon seeing such scenes I felt truly disappointed, as the

economy fell into a depression. I remember that back then we teachers had to receive rations of

rice and one time they distributed it together with sweet potato, but that sweet potato had weevils

in it, was rotten with bugs, with a foul smell that made it extremely difficult to eat. My wife

brought the sweet potato back home and whittled it down until there was just part of the inside

left, but after cooking it together with rice for the first time I choked on it. I looked at my wife,

then my parents ate the rice mixed with the sweet potato, yet it made me absolutely choke. Life

became ever darker. We teachers, by then we were no longer called professors, they called us

teachers, but added the word people’s, that word people’s was always present, the people’s

teachers, the people’s army. We teachers especially in the literature field had to cram politics

into our lessons, which made us completely miserable, and very perplexed on how to prepare our

lessons, what they called preparing a syllabus. According to their curriculum every literature

lesson had to include politics. Thus I gradually began to feel like I couldn’t live that way, and I

found a way to escape.

TVD: So was your wife still teaching at that time?

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NDC: Yes, she was still teaching. That is both of us were still teaching my wife included.

After ’75, I transferred to Bui Thi Xuan school to teach because it was close to my home on Vo

Tanh street. Then after that in ’76 my wife transferred to Lam Vien technical school, an academy

comprised of similar departments, or fellowships. My wife taught there, overseeing the library

there. Meanwhile I was teaching at Thang Long school, also known as Nagaret school, on Nghia

Sai street near the Dalat library. The two of us had a bicycle which we would ride together on. I

remember that on some days when I would go to receive my food rations, my team would get

fish. I had to carry a leger in order to receive fish at the market, early in the morning, since I was

scared of being seen. But luckily for me, when I presented the leger the daughter of the fish stall

owner happened to be one of my students. She told me to hand her the leger, whereby she wrote

something down in it, then after that gave me a bundle of fish to take back and share with my

friends in my team. That’s a memory I can never forget. Along with that I would take the leger to

get bread to bring back and share as well. Every morning my team would get several rations of

bread from the bakery on Phan Dinh Phung street to take back and divide amongst ourselves.

TVD: So did your family have enough to eat during that time?

NDC: We were short of everything. But my parents still had a little gold hidden away for us to

get by. My older brother was in The U.S. at that time but we could not yet contact him, the years

of 75-76 communication was not yet possible. Therefore we had to hold on with much hardship

during the period of 76-77. Those who lived in the South during that time can all attest that the

South at that time was living in a horrible nightmare.

TVD: At that time I know that a lot of people were preparing to flee the country.

NDC: That’s right.

VAOHP0075   18  

TVD: Upon seeing that and in that situation what did you as well as your friends and family

think?

NDC: Actually on the outside we had to appear to agree with the regime so as not to get arrested,

but on the inside we were extremely dissatisfied, and looked for a way to get out as was my

situation. I still taught in the proper manner, prepared my lessons thoroughly, studied politics,

wrote performance reports strictly according to national standards, whatever the government

requested. But silently I was still looking for a way out. When my friends told me that several

friends had organized I contacted them to go along. So you can see that things had become so

dark and miserable, the future of my child would come to nothing, therefore we decided to leave.

From Dalat I requested, in the summer of 77 I requested a permit from the educational

(department) of Dalat, on the permit it stated I would go to Can Tho to visit an uncle who had

come down from Hanoi on business, they often used that word cong tac, meaning that he was

working in Can Tho. So with a permit to travel from Dalat to Can Tho, we left. But my group

met up in My Tho, so after coming to My Tho during the night we boarded a boat, first a small

junk and then a bigger boat in My Tho, and left from there. The trip was very thrilling, if you

would like to hear about it I’ll tell you the story.

TVD: Yes, please do, but first let me ask one more detail about how you prepared to flee the

country, how was it all planned out?

NDC: Actually my friends in Saigon organized everything. They bought a boat with a permit to

transport dry goods from My Tho to Saigon. But they obtained the permit in order to prepare and

fix-up the boat, getting it ready for the open seas. And once ready they called me, while I got a

summer furlough from Dalat, this was in June, so we went to Saigon, then My Tho, and during

the night took a small boat, followed by a bigger boat belonging to a friend and thus we made

VAOHP0075   19  

our escape. But only two days later when we went out to sea the boat was already in bad

condition. Our group was quite small, only ten men who were either engineering students or

professors, other students, and five women who were also students, except for my wife who was

a teacher. Our son was 27 months old at the time, that was in June of 77 while my son was born

in March of 75, thus making him 27 months old. Ten men, five women, along with my son

totaled sixteen people on that small boat. Two days later the boat was damaged, yet we didn’t

know how to repair it, due to our lack of expertise. Actually the propeller-screw spun around

somehow that it got wound up beneath the boat, the anchor chain got entwined in the propeller,

there was no way to fix it until we made landfall after 27 days. During those 27 days, we saw

about 30 boats. We foraged everything that was still edible. We had no experience escaping by

sea, we took along an entire bag of rice. My friends bought a bag of rice then stored it in the

engine compartment but afterwards it was exposed to salt water, and oil got in it as well, but

once there was nothing else left to eat on the boat, that’s when I felt the situation was critical and

took out two cans worth of the best rice I could get to save for my son. While on the boat there

was no longer any dry bread or packages of instant noodles left to eat, so each meal I started to

carefully chew two spoonfuls of raw rice to feed to our son, by mouth, since there was no way to

cook it. Every morning two spoonfuls of rice, afternoon two spoonful of rice, that’s what my son

had to endure when he was only 27 months old. But he was the only child on board so he got to

drink more water than the adults, who every morning only received a gas can lid of water, then

another in the afternoon, in order to survive. But the strange thing was that even though my wife

and the other female students were so skinny, for some reason they were able to endure, it must

have been over two weeks that we couldn’t eat, surviving on just water. Only my son got to eat a

small bit of raw rice, pre-chewed and fed mouth-to-mouth. We saw around 30 other boats, but

VAOHP0075   20  

they were too far away to see us. If they did see us then they just ignored us. One boat stopped

but then took off again.

TVD: What country was the boat from?

NDC: The one which stopped but then left again, I remember it was from Panama but the crew

was Asian, seems like they were Chinese, or Singaporean, or Indonesian or from somewhere like

that. They stopped and asked some questions but then left, I can still remember the scene, they

didn’t give us anything. And by the 27th day of our sea journey we were completely worn out,

and on the afternoon of that day we measured out the last two spoonfuls of raw rice for our son.

After many stormy days, and the rough seas we faced, every time our boat rose, then fell with the

waves our insides were turned inside out. But my wife held on tightly to our child, scared that

loosening her grip might cause him to fall out the boat windows. Being young and strong we had

to bail out the seawater entering the boat to keep from sinking. But fortunately our boat was built

for the open sea and not a simple river boat therefore its hull was quite sturdy, and because there

were so few people on board, it rose and fell with the tide, and by bailing out the water we were

able to survive those storms. After the storms, it was thanks to those storms that we were able to

have fresh water, we used coarse gauze to collect the water, so we could have fresh water to

drink, because the water that was left onboard had seawater and other residue mixed in therefore

no longer tasted any good, but the water collected using the woven material while out at sea was

extremely delicious. Thanks to those rainstorms we had fresh water to drink. Our voyage at sea

ended on the 27th day, at around 2 or 3 in the afternoon with the sun at it’s brightest, we saw

some boats far away on the horizon. At 3 in the afternoon a ship neared and stopped after seeing

our SOS letters. They came alongside our boat, threw down two ropes and they signaled for us to

tie our boat onto the keel of theirs. It was an Asian crew. They threw down a bamboo basket of

VAOHP0075   21  

food, a container of fresh water, and a container of oil. Perhaps they were planning to leave after

that. But I was lucky to be standing at the back of the boat, as it was bobbing, because it was next

to a large ship it bobbed up and down. I saw that on the keel of their ship there was a row of coal

bunkers, going in about a foot, more than a short distance, and on top sat the ship’s keel, but only

just above it, a little higher than my head were the ends. But I still had enough strength to lunge

myself upward and grab onto the coal bunker to climb up and speak with the captain. I let him

know that we were Vietnamese refugees. Before climbing aboard I had seen the word CK Dolagi

on a buoy attached to a smokestack, with the word Busan which I understand to be the South

Korean port of Busan, and knew right away it was a South Korean ship. I jumped aboard and

told the captain that I was a Vietnamese refugee, and asked if they were Korean. Our boat was

damaged, I told the captain. His English was quite bad, while mine wasn’t that good either, so

we repeated over and over and used hand gestures to communicate with each other. Ah, back

then I had studied a little Japanese as well, so I spoke to him in both English and Japanese, since

he also knew Japanese, so we were able to hold a broken conversation. I asked him what were

our coordinates, whereby by he led me to his cabin to show me our location. We had started from

My Tho, and our current coordinates were about 200 kilometers (off the coast) from Tuy Hoa,

meaning that our boat had drifted to the North, while we wanted to head towards Malaysia, yet

had been drifting helplessly lost towards the Northeast. But it was because of this that we were

able to encounter that Korean ship. We talked for two hours before leaving his cabin to go down

to the deck, whereby the students below, kept calling to me, yelling to me from our boat. As soon

as the captain and I appeared on deck, the male students started calling to me asking if we were

going to be rescued, as too much water was getting into our boat. I told the captain that our boat

had a leak and water was getting in. Right at that moment massive clouds appeared on the

VAOHP0075   22  

horizon, a thunderstorm was approaching, and when ocean typhoons are swirling around you, the

winds blow and whirl like galloping horses. Raindrops were beginning to fall. So when the

captain saw that there was going to be a storm soon, and after he heard that our boat was leaking,

he understood the word hole, he yelled out, after that shouting a flood of Korean words. The

sailors all yelled back, finally they released an iron beam, the beam on the keel was pulled

forward, but then they gradually turned the rudder so that the beam could be lowered, then they

immediately signaled to us. I ran down below, the students ran very quickly. The women, my

wife was holding our son, so I had to go down to where I could help her and carry our son aboard.

Once on deck I remember looking back at our boat in the middle of the sea looking like a

bamboo leaf, so small, I don’t understand why I was like that back then, it’s a perfect example of

the deaf not fearing guns, we simply thought that once we got out to sea we would be saved.

Going like that was a big risk, had we any experience we would never have dared to attempt that

at all, it was horrible. So after we were able to go aboard that Korean ship they began to cook

rice gruel for us, and they gave my son a glass of milk, and after watching my wife give our son

milk, I knew I had survived. Actually even though to us it had been a horrific journey, as far as

the history of Vietnamese refugees goes, or boat people rather, there were trips ten thousand

times worse than ours. We never had to resort to cannibalism as was the case with some other

boat people. We have read such accounts in books and have learned about boat trips ending in

death. All 16 people on our boat luckily survived, even my 27 month old son. After we were lost

at sea for 27 days.

TVD: Next I would like to ask about where the Korean ship transported you after being rescued?

NDC: That ship was on its way to Indonesia to stop off. They carried us onboard for another 16

days, from the spot where they rescued us, they sailed on for another 16 days. A few days later

VAOHP0075   23  

they came to Bangka island next to, it was a small island by Sumatra, Indonesia. They went

around the shore of the island loading the ship with large wooden rafts, entire rafts made from

large Indonesia trees, they pulled each raft on board, which the people provided for the ship, and

stacked them onboard, to be shipped over to South Korea. They docked at many ports on Bangka

island. Meanwhile we wrote letters to United Nations members in Malaysia, at Columba. Only

the captain was allowed onshore. The captain carried my letter addressed to the high

commissioner for refugees working for the United Nations in Columba. He mailed it off and so

we just hoped for the best. We wrote in English, sent to the address of representatives of the

United Nations. But for 16 days, the ship sailed around Bangka island collecting raw timber to

take back, getting ready for the trip back to South Korea. On the final day in port we, the captain

received a telegraph on behalf of the Indonesian government from Dr. Sampark Kumar the high

commissioner for refugees for the United Nations in Indonesia saying he would travel by boat to

come and interview us. In fact he even brought along an attaché staff, there was a major general

from the internal ministry of Thailand, and a few other staff members from the Thai internal

ministry who boarded a small boat, then came by motorboat from Bangka island out to the South

Korean ship, and interviewed us onboard. We had just enough ability to converse with them in

English. I had one friend had been studying foreign diplomacy and an interpreter, while I myself

spoke passable English. The students interpreted. After the interview, Dr. Sampark Kumar

announced that as a representative of the United Nations he accepted our status as political

refugees, and could come ashore, because if we hadn’t received official status, we would have to

go back to South Korea. But because the high commissioner for refugees gave us that status we

were allowed to go ashore on the boat with him and his delegation. From a small airport on

Bangka island, we boarded a government plane, belonging to an Indonesian airline, I can’t

VAOHP0075   24  

remember which airline, and traveled with the officials to Sangatta. I remember that when the

plane was in the air the airline attendant announced that we would like to welcome Dr. Sampark

Kumar, high commissioner for refugees for the United Nations and major general, and a major

general from the internal ministry of Thailand, along with 16 Vietnamese civilians. Everyone on

the plane applauded, and the stewardesses brought us cake. That was the first time getting off a

boat and directly onto a plane immediately taking off. I recognize what a lucky group of refugees

we were, because at that time they were already beginning to have refugee camps in Indonesia

and Thailand. We were allowed to stay in a camp, which was why we flew from Bangka airport

to Sangatta. After landing in Sangatta, Dr. Sampark Kumar shook our hands and said goodbye,

telling us that he was handing us over to the Indonesian government’s management, and after

that you will be able to expedite your file to enter a third country, depending on the

circumstances, or personal situation. He said goodbye to us, we were lucky and thankful. We

then got on a bus and were driven to a refugee camp. We were really lucky to have a refugee

camp in Bogor province, 60 kilometers south of Jakarta. And this is where we were sent, a

vacation retreat for an Indonesian male doctor, but it had also been developed, yet had long since

become run-down, and was in complete shambles, it was no longer being developed.

I want to say that Bogor lay at an elevation similar to where Bao Loc lies compared with Saigon,

it was slightly cooler than Jakarta, on the weekends people would often go up there to relax,

since it was only 60 kilometers away, travelling by train, Honda motorbike, or car. There were

several resort areas like that (in the area), at that time the year was 1977, our camp was also

located here though it had long been neglected and abandoned, and the buildings were just

bamboo houses on stilts, with thatched roofs, but very dreamlike, there was an artificial lake for

bathing, used as a swimming pool, we’ll give you a picture of it.

VAOHP0075   25  

TVD: What was the name of that camp?

NDC: Taman Muara, in Bogor province. Bogor is a resort area that a while back you saw held

the Bogor summit conference, located in the resort area. The camp belonged to an Indonesian

doctor but was no longer developed, but his son-in-law was the general manager of some

government department, and was in charge of refugees. So he used this opportunity, as general

manager to convert his father-in-law’s property, making it into a holding center, a refugee camp,

and I’m sure they received some money, United Nations money, provided by the government for

refugee support. The first group which came before us had 44 people, mostly fishermen, while

we numbered 16 people. The entire camp only had 60 people, and was under the supervision of

the general manager’s wife, and the daughter-in-law was the wife of a major in the Indonesian

navy. This general manager would go into Jakarta every morning to work, then return to Bogor

in the afternoon in a large bus. When he would take the large bus he would serve as the driver,

and another driver would take over after the general manager got off to work, and resume his job

driving a city bus around Jakarta, that was the way officials earned their living back then. In the

afternoon the driver would pick up the general manager and return to Bogor. And his wife took

care of the refugee camp. In the morning she would buy food for us. In Indonesia they don’t eat

pork, so we just ate a lot of chicken. But our camp was a wonderful place to live, there were only

60 of us, we had enough to eat and even had a library, an artificial lake to swim in, the water

wasn’t that clean but it was great compared to the other refugee camps at Tanjung Pinang or in

Songkla, they had it far worse than us. We only stayed there for five and a half months. During

that time we contacted our friends and relatives in the United States, who filed to sponsor us. In

our group, my older brother, a former air force lieutenant, and later became a lieutenant colonel

in the army of the Republic of Vietnam, and who had gone to the U.S. in 1975, sponsored my

VAOHP0075   26  

wife, myself, and my son to come to California. The date that we left Jakarta was January 25,

and the day we came to the U.S. was also January 25, 1978.

TVD: Could you describe to us a little bit about the daily life inside the camp? As well as what

you did, did you ever get bored?

NDC: Compared with other refugee camps we were extremely lucky. I mentioned that we had all

the amenities, with stilt homes and only 60 people altogether, all around us there were durian

orchards. At night the durians would fall to the ground, and the younger students would busily

collect them to eat, they didn’t pay any heed. During the day we just moved around within the

camp. The camp only had one Indonesian policeman who would sit outside the gate, so we could

ask him for permission to go to the market to buy things. Once we got very adventurous, my

family along with another couple and younger man made 6 of us, we asked for permission to go

to the Bogor market, but what we really did that day was to climb aboard a train to Jakarta 60

kilometers away, and I still have some pictures of that day in Jakarta. Of course, we came back

after that. Our time in the refugee camp was heaven. Afterwards my wife and I and our friends

tell people that, all we did was eat, the lady manager and her daughter-in-law would go buy food

it and bring it back, then we would cook it together, there was always more than enough, and

there was also a small library to read books. We would send our letters through the manager

using his office address, and in the afternoon when he would leave his department and come

home he would bring our mail to us. Friends started to send money providing us comfort, thus

we could go buy things at the market. The women in our group, my wife included, were even

able to sew new dresses (ao dai), borrowing a sewing machine to sew them. In the pictures I will

show you, you can tell how lucky we were. A refugee camp with 60 people living in large stilt

houses, with plenty to eat and drink. We stayed there until January 25 when we came over to the

VAOHP0075   27  

United States. Thinking back that was the most perfectly idyllic period in our lives. We didn’t

have to work, just eat and bide our time, go around the camp reading books, the younger ones

also played music.

TVD: Did you have any organization within your group?

NDC: That was it, there were the younger kids, and there was the library where the adults read

books. I had a young son to take care of, because at the camp there were many fish ponds, so my

wife, both of us had to hold on to him because we were afraid he might fall in one. The younger

kids would just play. The general manager’s son was the same age as the younger students in my

group. They all became really close friends! He brought his entire band to the library assembly

room, and since the students also knew about music, they would play together. Before we left the

general manager even organized a banquet in the library, and he invited the local district chief

and a representative form the internal ministry, so they could see how he managed the refugee

camp. They served us food, and we also read speeches thanking the Indonesia government

during the banquet. Thinking back that is one of the truly beautiful memories in our life. If you

compare it with our fellow countrymen and boat people in the other camps.

TVD: So during the time you were there, while you were waiting to see how your future would

turn out, what did you and your countrymen at the camp think about Vietnam and your future?

NDC: The time right after we left Vietnam we still didn’t have any communication at all, no

contact yet with Vietnam, but all we worried about was how to get to the United States. When

we were able to make contact, because the general manager brought a list of our names to the

American consulate, and a delegation came to interview us there. All of us met the criteria to

emigrate to the United States, because we all had relatives in the United States. My group

numbered 16 people. While for the fishermen group later on a group of people, a church in the

VAOHP0075   28  

U.S. also sponsored them in 1977, and another group went to Canada. As for us my brother was

our sponsor. During that time we only thought about the issue of getting to the U.S.. We were

only at the refugee camp for five and a half months before being allowed to go to the U.S.. And

before leaving the general manager informed us that the camp would be immediately closed,

would no longer continue. Because afterward he became a consulate general for Indonesia in

Romania. I kept in contact with both he and his wife after that, yet they have since both passed

away, and they had a son who used to be a major in the navy, and a daughter-in-law who would

help out by going to the market to buy us food. I’ve heard that he is now a lieutenant general in

the Indonesian army. After the father died we no longer kept in touch.

TVD: Before coming to the Untied States did you do any preparation or study more English

while you were in the camp, or do anything extra?

NDC: Among my friends that were there we had one diplomat and an interpreter. They

organized English classes inside the library for the fishermen and their children. The adults sat

down to study intermittently. While we would often sit and read, since we had a background in

language study and did a lot of reading. Even the embassy personnel complimented us when an

official from the American embassy in Jakarta come out to interview us. After our exchange, he

told us we were a very special group of refugees, highly educated, and certain to be allowed into

the United States, because we met all the criteria. And sure enough, we were accepted to the

United States. And we were part the first lucky group of 15,000 refugees accepted to the United

States under president Carter. We were one of the first groups to come over in that wave. I left

around January 15, 1978.

TVD: What city in the U.S. did you come to?

VAOHP0075   29  

NDC: At the time my brother was living in Monrovia, California, a town near Azusa. Afterwards

our friends invited us to live in North Hollywood, over here we received social security benefits

because I had a young child. A year later we enrolled in classes at the adult education school to

study English conversation. After that we enrolled in college. My wife had been a professor of

literature, but she was good at science, so she studied Computer Sciences, while I studied Civil

Engineering.

TVD: What was your first memory after coming over to the United States? What were you

thinking at that time?

NDC: I must admit that after coming from a refugee camp I was elated, but once we came to the

U.S. we had to begin a new life in the role of students. In the year 1978 I had just turned 36 years

old, and my wife was 33, so we were at an age when we were still full of vitality. And we had

the educational background to go straight into college. Therefore we were students for a period

of time. We studied at Harbor College in Wilmington. While we were taking classes, we left our

son at the daycare center on the college campus. I would leave him there during class time, after

which we would bring him to the library. He would sit and draw, while we did our homework. I

think back to that time and can’t believe how wonderful it all was, it still makes me happy to

think about. While going to school we had to take at least 12 units in order to receive financial

aide. We would study 11 units in our major, and we would take dance class together for the other

unit, forget about school work, dancing was also a subject, 1 unit. We dance because we studied

it in college.

TVD: Ball room dancing?

NDC: Ball room dancing! It’s a lot of fun! Therefore we lived a very relaxed life back then. It

can be said that the year 78 was the heyday for refugees in California. I don’t know how things

VAOHP0075   30  

were in other states, but here we had more than enough, we were given public assistance,

housing. I lived in a public housing project in Lomita, called Harbor Hills, it was really nice

there. We were given milk subsidies, social security benefits, we just had to worry about going to

school and getting financial aid. We were even able to get loans, which we used to send money

to help our family in Vietnam. In 1978 we found a way to send money from Hong Kong, we

knew some Chinese people who could send it for us, back in 78, after some time in the U.S. we

finally had a way to send money to Vietnam to help our parents in Dalat. So in retrospect that

was a very happy time. We went to school until 1981, actually we hadn’t yet finished our BS, but

we were able to find jobs. My wife worked for a, she was a programmer back then, and then I

worked as a civil engineer. My wife worked for a shipping company, a Japanese transportation

company, transporting containers out of Long Beach. While I went to school, at first I went to

work for several private firms, later on I worked with the Los Angeles department of water and

power, or DWP. I was just a designer there, it was a very relaxing job. I worked from 1981 in a

private firm, until 1988 when I joined the department of power where I worked until 2010 before

retiring, officially retiring in February 2011. My wife retired in September 2010.

TVD: When you first came to the United States, what was your outlook regarding Vietnam and

the U.S.?

NDC: We knew that we must do something right away. Because several of my friends, the ones

who came over early on told us not to be fools, that’s how they referred to themselves, by going

to work right away, we should collect welfare so we could go to school, and not to bother

working, since it would be a waste. We were unaffected because we had a young child, therefore

we could receive social security benefits, and go to school, and got enough support at the time.

As I said that was the heyday for refugees in California, we received maximum assistance. We

VAOHP0075   31  

received benefits from 1978 until September 1981, when we stopped living on welfare and went

to work. Working for 29 years is enough to pay back society. We are very proud of our efforts,

and struggles. Thanks to our prior educational background we were afforded this society. For

honest and peaceful people like ourselves, American society is the ideal society for us. We must

give thanks to this society.

TVD: During that time did you have another child?

NDC: Ah Yes! That was in 1979, Vivi who you (Thuy) already know. In 79 we had another

daughter. Back then my wife went to school while pregnant, and later on after our daughter was

born she would often climb onto her mom and sit. My wife would just sit cross-legged doing

math, working on homework. My wife took classes at night while I stayed home to watch the

kids, studying and doing homework until 1981. My son had just turned 6 years old in 1981, our

daughter was born in 1979, so she was two years old. We stayed in school until landing a job and

then went right to work. Because back then our family in Vietnam needed assistance, so we went

to work mainly in order to help the family. In 1984 my wife welcomed her parents and family of

her eldest brother, the family of her third oldest brother and youngest brother came to the U.S. in

1984, as part of the family reunification program. In one of the first waves that came over to be

reunited with family members in the U.S.. And there are many family members from my wife’s

side living over here, ever since that time. As for me I only have one older brother living in

Houston, who is now 83 years old.

TVD: During the time when the two of you had very small children, while both going to school

and taking care of the children at the same time, did you have anyone, or community, anyone at

all to help you?

VAOHP0075   32  

NDC: No! We didn’t depend on the community but we did greatly rely on the American

government. Back then the young people in the Vietnamese community weren’t very organized

yet, that was the year 1981, things were still quite casual. The Bolsa area didn’t yet have

anything, just a few scattered Vietnamese stores is all there was. We lived off social security

benefits, studied, received financial aid, took out loans, a comfortable life I must say, we only

had to pay 200 dollars a month for housing. We were very content during that time just to be

students. And I was still young back then, will plenty of ability, and energy still, so we could

easily adapt to this society.

TVD: You seemed to have later moved around to many places?

NDC: First of all, after living in the housing (project), I started working, and needed to rent an

apartment. We rented an apartment in Gardena, then later bought a house in Cerritos, and

gradually were promoted. In her profession my wife was also gradually promoted within a

Japanese company, and eventually she became an assistant director of a department of ITF

corporation in Long Beach. As for me I was just a modest designer of an electric company in Los

Angeles. But of course being civil servants provided us with quite a comfortable living.

TVD: If you compared your family’s social class in the United States to that of your family in

Vietnam how would you compare them?

NDC: As educators in Vietnam we only belonged to the middle class. After coming here we are

still part of the middle class. But we live with a greater mental well-being, and especially after

seeing our children as well as your generation, fitting in well in this society, and growing up in

such a moralistic, kind-hearted, and wonderful society, it makes me very joyful. Thank you

America!

VAOHP0075   33  

TVD: While the both of you were raising your two children, did you have any desires for the two

of them?

NDC: Of course, we wanted them to have a thorough education, but we were also very easy-

going, we didn’t pressure them into studying anything, they were free to study anything they

wanted. My son eventually went into computer (science) as well, and my daughter studied

financial, I mean finance. They both have good jobs now.

TVD: But when your children were still young, how did the two of you encourage them to

study?

NDC: Oh, that’s because my wife, both of us are teachers, so whenever they brought home

homework we watched them closely as they did it. There weren’t many computers back then,

only TV, it was limited, they could only watch animated films, along with sports. My son liked

sports, he would watch basketball, those were the only types of shows there were. When our

children were older, we moved to Cerritos, a city with a very good school district, our kids went

to good schools in Cerritos. Friends also kept a watchful eye on our children’s friendships. So all

of our children’s friends came from good families, and they had very good friends. We didn’t

pay overly strict attention to their education. I still had to privately teach them Vietnamese. I

would teach Vietnamese to both d them after coming home from work. You can imagine that for

every hour that I taught them both in Vietnamese, every day I would teach for half an hour and

give them 2 dollars. In other words they got to study Vietnamese, while I had to pay money.

Therefore they were very happy to study. But I only tried doing that up until the 10th grade, when

they got too busy to study anymore. But they know Vietnamese, can speak it, of course with a

little bit of an accent, and their Vietnamese intonation isn’t perfect, but they write to me in

Vietnamese whenever sending email, notes, or letters. When my daughter entered college, she

VAOHP0075   34  

took some Vietnamese classes at UCLA and said thanks, she was grateful now that studying

Vietnamese seemed so easy, because the classes she took were easy for her. Back then the

Vietnamese language schools were not fully established yet therefore I had to teach them at

home, because even though I had my children study Vietnamese every week at the Vietnamese

language center down by Bolsa, it still wasn’t that developed, 4-5 hours a week there wasn’t

enough, so I had to keep teaching them every day. I had to make poster boards, which I would

split into three segments, then cut pictures from the newspaper to teach them vocabulary. I would

cut pictures of a banana, then write banana, that’s pretty much how I did it, then do an orange, a

knife, or scissors. I would glue them onto a board, I had cards the size of my hand, then I would

write words forming sentences for them to practice writing down dictation in the afternoon. So

for dictation since I had been a Vietnamese teacher, so I would create stories, for example today

you studied at school, what did you study, and they would sit and tell me, in that way I would

base it on their own stories, which I would have them write down into a few dictation sentences,

or paragraphs. After each lesson I would pay each of them two dollars, to put into their piggy

banks.

TVD: Wow, what a great way to learn. Who wouldn’t want to learn from you!

NDC: For them to effectively learn I had to teach them at home.

TVD: So after encouraging your children to study Vietnamese that way, how do you now see the

children of this generation, have they kept up the language?

NDC: The way I see it, we don’t dare interfere with our grandchildren’s learning, because even

though they are able to study Vietnamese, just take as an example someone like my son who got

married, and has a Chinese wife, from Hai Phong, however their children still only speak English

with each other. And this year my oldest grandson is 5 years old, and goes to school from 8

VAOHP0075   35  

o’clock in the morning until 4 o’clock in the afternoon when his dad picks him up, still only

speaking English. Therefore I’m split on how to feel, I can instill it in them but only to a certain

degree. So I don’t have high expectations, and I’m also not too concerned because it’s the same

for all of us in this generation. One way or another I’ll still try to pass it on, but I won’t force

them to study Vietnamese. Because if I create pressure, or too much stress then they might end

up hating the Vietnamese language. Anyway they think of it as a second language, so I’m just

helping them learn more (for knowledge’s sake), just like they might learn Spanish. That’s how

it is for my grandchildren’s generation. My children even learned the history and geography (of

Vietnam), but they have forgotten a lot of it by now.

TVD: When you taught Vietnamese to your children, did you use proverbs or stories?

NDC: That was certainly part of it. Proverbs, folk songs, and legends which I still remembered,

and I would teach to them, by reading aloud. But in actuality they didn’t absorb too much

because of their level of vocabulary, because their parents didn’t have the time, we had to take

classes and focus on graduating, but after graduating and going to work I was very diligent about

teaching them. Every afternoon after I came home I would give them dictation practice. Same

thing every afternoon.

TVD: Do you remember which proverbs or legends you would usually tell?

NDC: I remember telling the story about Lac Long Quan-Au Co who laid a clutch of eggs,

whereby my kids asked how could she lay eggs and I was confused on how to answer them, they

wanted to know why she laid eggs. From then on I started getting stuck, so I just used the pretext

that it was a myth, those are pretty fanciful stories. After that I didn’t teach those stories as much

but started using real stories taken from their daily activities, such as describing a basketball

game, or family outings, which would become their reading lesson, instead of using the books by

VAOHP0075   36  

Nguyen Van Bao Van, who wrote a series of books to teach children. I did use them but only

rarely, since they weren’t applicable, or appropriate for this living environment. As far as

teaching history I just gave them a general overview, I wasn’t able to go into detail, because

there’s no way they could remember it all. I really admire anyone who can teach their children in

so thoroughly dedicated a manner as many of my friends have done. But even many of my

teaching colleagues have eventually given up. The kids nowadays only speak English.

Everyone’s family situation is different. My intent was to teach my children to become good

people, good citizens. Speaking of now they have become American citizens, I just taught them

to be good American citizens, to contribute to this society, and do it honestly.

TVD: Let me ask you to briefly talk about the Vietnamese-American community here in

Southern California.

NDC: I’ve been living here since 78. At first our community had not yet fully established itself,

and the area around Bolsa was still quietly sparse, it was not as thriving as now. Yet gradually I

saw our community take form, organizing a wider-range of activities. That’s something to be

very positive about. 37 years have now passed, we are living in the U.S., but in the olden days

when we did not yet have any festivals, things we very sad. For the first few years after coming

to the United States in 78 I was quite sad and bored, but later on things became more diverse

every day. I must acknowledge that our community is really varied and colorful, it has so much,

and is so multi-faceted. Because of this rich diversity there are also a lot of complicated

problems. Along with that is the communist interference. I know for certain the communists are

still causing trouble for us, and right within our community, and no matter how clear-sighted we

are there are still unfortunate clashes in the community. I just hope that every member of our

community, the true refugees fleeing communism, understand what are ideals are, our love of

VAOHP0075   37  

freedom, and act righteously, so that our community shines, isn’t dull, remains vigilant, and

aware of all our enemy’s plots. I still can’t accept the communists, because that regime shows

itself to be a regime that betrays the people more each day, oppresses the people, suppresses

every personal freedom. And they are run by thugs, with power, with weapons in hand, an army,

and oppress the honest people, the voices of conscience within the country. That’s what deeply

dissatisfies us. Although our ability is limited, we can still do our part to lend a hand. I still have

friends who get together, and we still do secretive work which of benefit to the honest people in

Vietnam.

TVD: Could you tell me?

NDC: We still send money sometimes to help out certain activists in Vietnam. We have our own

private network, to be straightforward, Of course the communists know, but we have our own

way to help. But we still think that there is no other regime so dictatorial as Tan Thuy Hoang or

any of the other dictatorships that we’ve seen, and continue to exist over time. And even China

with all of their problems, still don’t know that someday they too must dissolve, or transform

themselves, in order to exist. China does have a lot of problems. If China has problems then so

too does Vietnam, and if there are changes in China then Vietnam will as well. So Vietnamese

refugees need to be clear-sighted and wholesome, and try to keep our organizations and

community upright. But deep down I admit it’s not easy, it’s a very difficult task, and I think

about giving up, but I only know to keep trying. But we can hope for a brighter future for the

good people of Vietnam, and that someday, Vietnam will be more democratic, more free. But

who knows under what type of government, because we can never predict the changes and

developments of history. But I am now 70, I don’t know how much longer I can look towards

Vietnam.

VAOHP0075   38  

TVD: From the time you left Vietnam in 77 until now have you ever been back to Vietnam?

NDC: In 2005, I returned to visit my mother once. She was 95 years old. I’m lucky, it was my

first time back after 28 years in the United States, and during the first week she was still alert.

She was 95 years old at that time, but one week later she stopped eating and drinking, and I saw

her getting weaker, so I had a doctor in Dalat come to the house and provide intravenous therapy,

but she gradually grew weaker and when my mother died, I was very lucky to still be in Dalat to

hold her funeral. After I week I came back to the U.S.. When my father died in 1197, he was 92

years old, but I didn’t risk going back, because back then I still didn’t believe in the communist

reforms. But in 2005 I felt I had to go back to visit my mother one time, it was fortunate that she

passed away on my first trip back. I could organize her funeral for her. That was a fortunate thing

for me. But I have not been back since then.

TVD: When you went back did you bring your children along?

NDC: No, it was just my wife and myself. Our kids were busy working plus I didn’t want them

to rush back hastily.

TVD: Have your children ever been back to Vietnam?

NDC: Not yet, they haven’t been back yet. My wife I know but she died last year, the kids

haven’t planned to go back yet. Now they all have kids, and are quite busy. Whenever I moved

anywhere, I was afraid to go back to Vietnam while the kids might get ill, and I myself was

afraid to return to Vietnam because the pollution could affect my health hence I’m very hesitant.

After my wife died my friends invited me to go back but I said no. I don’t want to go back yet.

TVD: When you went back in 2005 what changes did you see?

NDC: Saigon is still noisy. There was some building going on but I didn’t stay in Saigon for very

long, just 2 days, yet I did see a few construction projects. But when I arrived back in our Dalat it

VAOHP0075   39  

no longer had the elegant appearance that it did during the 70s when I was still there. I had

migrated to Dalat in 54 then entered Dalat university in 62, and returned in 69 to live with my

parents, so I consider myself to be from Dalat. I finally left in 77. When I went back in 2005,

Dalat had been developing in a very unorganized manner. The houses were very close together,

their colors were no longer in harmony with nature, and most of all were the workers, there were

so many people who had come to Dalat from other places, there were also more vehicles, more

people, houses built right next to each other. In my neighborhood from Vo Tanh street up to the

university, houses had sprung up side by side. And of course there were a few viet cong big men

who occupied the really good property lots, and built really beautiful villas. I just stood outside

and looked, but there is one thing in Dalat of which I can say has lost its gracefulness, is some of

the people in Dalat, while the older Dalat residents grow fewer every day, the newer Dalat

residents come from everywhere, and lack the elegance of yesteryear. That’s something we very

much regret to see, but cannot prevent.

TVD: Here in the United States how much of your life and that of your family is connected to

your own culture in the U.S?

NDC: Of course Vietnam still has many beautiful and positive points, if only we can preserve

them for our children, since maintaining those attributes is a good thing. For example there are

the organized activities, lunar new year, death anniversaries, and other traditions like that, that

should be preserved if at all possible. And if Vietnamese can be taught as a second language then

that’s something that should be maintained, and is achievable. But I still think that someday the

critical time will come, during my grandchildren’s generation, or that of my great-grandchildren

when I will give up trying. Because I don’t know if I’ll still be alive to see my great-children.

Even with my grandkids now I’ve seen how difficult it is to teach them about Vietnamese culture.

VAOHP0075   40  

They live in an American environment, American culture, gradually it will become more foreign

to them, and we must accept that. I only tried with my children’s generation, when my

grandchildren came around I was already starting to get old, and I don’t have a lot of time left.

My grandchildren are Americanized, so I must become more Americanized as well. By finding

common ground I earn their love. Many times they don’t understand so I must tell them in

English. So that’s what I need to speak.

TVD: Does your family keep up with customs such as death anniversaries?

NDC: We still observe those ceremonies, during the lunar year my children usually take time off

to go to the temple, temple ceremonies, after which get together with the extended family.

Because my wife’s family is quite large, our nephews and nieces organize activities which keep

our extended family very close. Particularly during the lunar new year, and birthdays, when all

the relatives get together, and during our parents’ and grandparents’ death anniversaries when all

those who are not busy gather at a relative’s house, or my home, and we have a family get-

together.

TVD: What do you do on the days your family gets together?

NDC: We eat and have ceremonies, of course we have to have ceremonies, death anniversaries

require ritual, an altar, and photos of grandparents, or whoever it is that the death anniversary is

for. After that we have a meal. I must say that in this generation adults and children alike speak

English to each other, I don’t even understand how they could be my own family, to tell the truth.

As long as they love each other, I’m willing to accept it because that’s the American culture,

hence their culture.

TVD: Did you and your wife share your experiences of living in Vietnam?

VAOHP0075   41  

NDC: Yes, I have told them, but they laugh. We told them that in the olden days I was very poor,

and they tell me they know and so now their life is the way it is. I often feel that they are

somewhat wasteful, with all the clothes, and toys, my gosh, my grandchildren have an entire

houseful, a room for toys, what a waste, but what can I do. They can afford to buy those things

so I just put up with it. I cannot impose the Vietnamese lifestyle of my generation onto that of

my grandchildren, I must adapt to them. But the fact that they do have such a life is also a good

thing.

TVD: Are your children ever curious to ask you about the past wars?

NDC: Yes. They’re not curious, but I still remind them. I’ve written a document in English for

them to store in their computer, so they can have a general idea, how their grandparents lived in

the olden days, and even about their father. How my son travelled by sea. My daughter who was

raised in the Unites States also read it so she could know how it was. But they don’t really pay

that much attention, to tell the truth. I just wrote it so that they would know. I’ve even bought

Thuy Mien books in English for them to look at, which they just look through to get the idea, but

they aren’t overly interested, and that’s the truth. Because it doesn’t concern them at all. My son

has read it, I explained to him that basically he himself had also left (Vietnam) by sea, making

him a boat person, and so he knows, and someday he will also tell his children. I wrote the

document in English in the eventuality that my grandchildren will read it in the future.

TVD: Are you active in the community here?

NDC: I was very active within the overseas Vietnam teachers society in the mid-80s, and I have

continued participating in it over the last few decades. Besides that I have friends belonging to

religious groups. I also take part in artistic activities, basically I attend lectures, or exhibitions,

and even host book appearances for friends. That’s one capacity in which I can help out my

VAOHP0075   42  

friends. I actively participate as well. Nowadays the older I get the less I go, but in the decade

between 80-90 I was an MC for many book appearances.

TVD: During those organized activities in the decade between 80-90, you were very active

within the community, do you have any happy memories to tell me about?

NDC: Of course, activities are always fun. Meeting friends, listening to poems, listening to

music, discussing written works, especially since the field of literature has had a great influence

on me ever since I was a Vietnamese literature teacher, therefore I really enjoy that. I have a very

selective group of friends and we have much love and esteem for each other, and that’s what

brings me happiness. I have very many friends, therefore I am very happy with my friends. We

always treasure, and cherish each other, with complete sincerity. I feel that that is a cultural

lifestyle of ours, of my generation, the 70 year old generation.

TVD: I’ve also heard that many older people feel (that way about) relationships with friends, and

people they know.

NDC: They have shared a part of our past, and life memories with us. When I had my 25th

wedding anniversary, I invited many friends. I told them that my wife and I respected our

friendships very much. Because every friendship holds memories, and represents a part of our

homeland, a part of our very life. I still uphold that ideal, even with friends I’ve just met. They

also share a part of our memories. We have the highest regard for those friendships.

TVD: You say you had a party for your 25th anniversary?

NDC: Yes, that was the year 1995, I held a 25th anniversary celebration at a restaurant in Cerritos

city, and around 200 friends attended. We even sang and danced.

TVD: Are those type of festivities common in Vietnamese culture?

VAOHP0075   43  

NDC: I think that many families quite often do. 25 years, 30 years, many families do. All my

family members did, 25, 30, 40 years they all did. Most (of the attendees) were relatives, family,

or friends. It’s a chance to demonstrate your happiness with everyone, which is something good.

I’m sure that later on my grandchildren will do the same. After 10 years. How many years have

you been married?

TVD: 8 years already.

NDC: Ah, So you’ll also celebrate your 10th year anniversary I’m sure?!

TVD: I’m sure we will.

NDC: At 10 years, 15, 20 years every family does.

TVD: Speaking of anniversaries, I know that 60 is very important age. Do you celebrate?

NDC: You’re asking about age 60 or 60 years of marriage?

TVD: When you turned 60 years old.

NDC: No! When I turned 60 years old I didn’t do anything at all. Right now I’m 69 almost 70

but I still don’t want to do anything for it. People say that it’s unlucky to have a big celebration,

that’s why. Besides my wife passed away last year. She was only 66 years old when she passed

away. I’m also limited. Now I’m just happy with my grandchildren.

TVD: Why did your wife die?

NDC: She had stomach cancer. It spread too fast. She was very skinny, after finishing, going

through chemo she couldn’t hold on any longer. They also tried treating her with different

medicines that would be surgically administered which people recommended, japonica

mushrooms, herbs, but she still passed away. Because her disease was already too advanced.

February of last year, my wife died, at age 66.

VAOHP0075   44  

TVD: I’ve asked you a lot of questions so far, since you’ve given such good responses I don’t

think I’ll ask you anything more.

NDC: Check and make sure you didn’t forget anything?!

TVD: I did want to ask you a little bit about your career in the United States?

NDC: I was a civil engineering designer. This meant that I worked at a hydro-electricity plant

and I would design the water pipe systems within the city of Los Angeles along with fire

extinguisher systems. In school I had to learn so many things yet working at my job was pretty

simple for me. As it turns out, everything is done with computers these days anyway. I also used

Photoscape to design those systems. I managed to earn a living! From a Vietnamese literature

teacher I had become a civil engineer for 22 years, along with some time outside of the field.

Now that I’m retired I feel quite relieved.

TVD: You worked with one company over 20 years?

NDC: In a government service office, the office of hydroelectricity. I worked there for 22 years.

Before that I worked 7 years on the outside, making it 29 years. I worked from 1981 until 2011,

29 years plus a few months, my contribution to the United States. My wife also worked 29 years,

but right after she stopped working and retired she fell ill and passed away.

TVD: You said you worked for the city of Los Angeles, how many years did you work there?

NDC: 22 years.

TVD: It seems that you mentioned getting a promotion?

NDC: At first I worked in a very modest position, doing modest jobs, but gradually I rose to

higher, bigger jobs, slowly rising up. I was able to make a decent living.

TVD: What was the promotion process like?

VAOHP0075   45  

NDC: When I was in the service office we always got tested first, a written test followed by an

interview. Whenever we took a written test the candidates with scores 70 or higher would get put

on a list that stayed valid for 2 years. During those 2 years, If there was any position opening

within the city then that department would call 5-6 of the candidates with the highest scores for

an interview. If they still couldn’t find anyone then they would contact the people who had

scored lower. Usually the first 2-3 people would get the job right away. I also went through

several of those type tests so that’s how I got promoted, I was just a modest designer.

TVD: You used to be a teacher, but how about later on?

NDC: I was a civil engineer, and that was alright by me. To be honest my Vietnamese education

was very useful, so I was able to adapt right away. I knew that there was no way I could teach

Vietnamese literature over here. As far as teaching here goes, my friends who had come over in

75, after working here as teachers in high schools, or elementary schools, said that the students

here are too wild, very spoiled, and extremely rude. Therefore they advised me not to teach here.

I already knew not to teach here.

TVD: So why did you go into Civil Engineering?

NDC: When I first wanted to test to enter City that’s the major I studied. At first I studied

mechanical, and worked for some private companies. Then my company relocated to Dallas

during the economic recession. So that’s when I rushed to take Civil classes. Then I took the city

test, and passed. Right when I was preparing to move away, I got an interview, and was hired for

a job with the city.

TVD: You mentioned that you worked for a period of time and sent money to Vietnam then

sponsored family members from both your sides?

VAOHP0075   46  

NDC: No, just my wife’s family. On my side I only had my brother who had already come over

in 75. My wife sponsored her older brother, wife and 4 kids, her second oldest brother, wife and

3 kids, her youngest brother, and later on another younger brother who was the 5th child in the

family, along with wife with two kids, not to mention my wife’s mother as well. She came over

in 1984, my mother-in-law did. Her family is very large.

TVD: Did you feel that it was hard to sponsor your family?

NDC: At that time they had just started the ODP program, so the application process was quite

quick, going through the USCC and all the embassy procedures was fast back then. USCC is

now managed by Mr. Nam Loc. The case files were expedited. I applied in 82-83 and by 84 they

were already over here. It was very fast back then. Afterwards there were more applicants but

back then there were fewer. That was the first wave. As soon as they started that program we

acted right away, but my parents refused to leave. They didn’t want to go.

TVD: Why’s that?

NDC: They didn’t want to leave. They just wanted to stay in Dalat. They were already older, and

had grandchildren in Vietnam therefore they didn’t want to go, so I resigned myself to the fact

(that they had made up their minds). My father died in 1997, and my mother in 2005.

TVD: After you were sponsored, why was it that you decided to settle down here to build a new

life?

NDC: I got accustomed to going to school, then got a job here, and gradually established roots

here in Southern California. There’s no better place to live. Even with the threat of an earthquake

happening at any time, the sunshine is so beautiful here, I have so many friends that wish they

could live here.

TVD: Have you had a chance to visit other U.S. states?

VAOHP0075   47  

NDC: For fun yes, but never to look for work. I continued to work for the City of Los Angeles.

With the beautiful Cali weather here why go anywhere else, and our community has everything.

Anyone would agree that the Southern California Vietnamese community here has every type of

activity one could look for.

TVD: Are you still living in Cerritos?

NDC: Now I’m living in Anaheim. After my wife died I rented out our Cerritos house, now I’m

living in Anaheim with my son and two grandkids.

TVD: So do you come down to the little Saigon area very often?

NDC: Yes, very often.

TVD: Weekly?

NDC: Usually two or three times a week. Especially now that there are so many activities in little

Saigon. Every few days I go to visit my wife’s grave at Big (Peek?) Family, to trim the grass and

change the flowers, on Wednesday they replace the flowers and with new flowers come on

Thursday, and when the grass doesn’t look neat to me I trim it a little bit. After that I go down to

Bolsa. I have many friends now, I’m very sociable so I have wide contacts from all social

backgrounds. So my friends often invite me to go out with them, or talk all day on the telephone,

or on the computer. I know how to use a computer.

TVD: What are your daily activities like?

NDC: When I get up in the morning I check my email, I respond to the important ones, otherwise

I just glance over the rest. After that I take my grandchild of 11 months to daycare, I leave him

there so I can go to my old house and check it over because before I rent it out I need to fix it up.

After that I often go down to visit my wife’s grave, besides my wife I also visit her mother’s

grave, that is my mother-in-law, so I keep myself busy all morning. Sometimes my friends invite

VAOHP0075   48  

me out to lunch, not to mention the weekend when they relax at coffee shops or go to funerals.

Nowadays weddings come seldom, in the past I went to many weddings, but these days there are

fewer weddings and more funerals. I am still very active. Sometimes my friends invite me to go

to, you know about the singing club trend at the small tea houses, where we sing to each other.

My friends like to listen to me sing so they invite me to go drink coffee, and have me go up to

sing. They enjoy listening to the love songs from past decades, and I have also memorized

several songs which I sing for them. My voice has turned slightly more raspy these days but it

still doesn’t sound too bad.

TVD: You sing and ballroom dance?

NDC: No, I only did ballroom back when I had my wife to dance with but after she passed away

I didn’t feel like it anymore, I have no more inspiration, I’m old now. To hold another woman to

dance with would seem strange, it wouldn’t feel natural, and would make me uncomfortable. But

I will dance with my children or grandkids.

TVD: Do you play any instruments?

NDC: I’m trying to learn the keyboard but still can’t play very well. I sing pretty well, but with

the keyboard I’m still practicing. I also have activities with my students. Some of my students

who have come over here who I sometimes get together with, and I also have my colleagues as

well.

TVD: So what song do you sing most often?

NDC: The song which I enjoy singing the most and which holds the most memories for me, and

which I have the strongest connection with is the song ‘Mong Duoi Hoa’ by Pham Dinh Chuong.

I’m sure you know that song: even before I met you I felt… so if you hear it, sometime I’ll send it

via email for you to listen to, then there’s ‘Ben kia song’ by Nguyen Duc Hoang, whose children

VAOHP0075   49  

were friends of my wife, there are so many songs. I often sing love songs from the 60s as well as

recent ones. There are songs that I liked when I was a kid like ‘Loi Long’, ’Chieu Vang’, oh

there’s so many. I’m am also proficient at singing modern Vietnamese music. Basically I know a

lot of old songs, and artists and singers from my generation, 70 that is, I’ve met many of them.

So many to mention! Many times I don’t have enough time. I often have no extra time on the

weekend. I’ll soon be attending a funeral over in Forest Lawn in Cypress, after that well today is

my wife’s birthday actually. I already visited her grave this morning, then spent time with my

son. From Cypress Forest Lawn, I will return to Big (Peek) Family. At 5 o’clock I have a to

record a radio program. Another activity I do is recording a program for ‘giao hai trieu am’,

which is broadcast weekly on Tuesday evening, at 8:30 on station 1480 AM, it’s a Buddhist

program. It has three parts, religious teaching, a part related to morality and a Buddhism

discussion for younger people. It was run by professor Luu Trung Khao, one of my seniors, my

teacher. He has been doing the program for around 16-17 years already. I record on Wednesday

afternoon. Each time I record two programs, to air on Tuesday of the following week. Those are

my activities. I am very cautious with my activities, I only have the teacher’s association and

‘giao hai trieu am’ radio program, along with the temples, I help out at whichever temple needs it,

helping out in whatever small way I can.

TVD: What temple do you go to?

NDC: I am a free monk. I go to all the temples, there’s no specific temple I have to go to. But

since we are on the subject, I belong to the Amitabhism (pure land) Buddhist branch. It teaches

the path of peace and virtue, that’s what I pray for. I’m a Amitabha Buddhist.

TVD: In conclusion then, I want to ask if there’s anything else which you would like to share

which I haven’t yet ask you about?

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NDC: I would like to compliment you on choosing such an interesting career. This field, what

we call human vulture, or Humanities rather, is about people, it’s very special, I really like it. We

need to have more people go into it, instead of always going into science studying humanities

can be quite interesting, and has its own advantages. I feel that the future youth such as

yourselves, or my children, live in a healthy social environment, of course it still has its negative

aspects more not many. There are far more positive aspects. Your generation, and of my children,

has many successful people, and almost everyone has graduated from college. That is a point of

pride for the Vietnamese community. Besides you all there are many good and capable people,

who have greatly contributed to this country. That’s a point that my generation which came

before takes great pride and joy in. And I hope that your children will be even better, and

contribute even more. First comes the United States, then helping humanity, we have the ability.

First of all we need to pay back society, after which we will have greater ability to contribute to

humanity. And someday the world will be at peace, and all living beings will have peace and

contentment.

TVD: I would like to thank you for sharing such a great story with me today. If I have any

follow-up interview I’ll see you soon.

NDC: I’m always ready to lend you a hand, and very happy to do so. Thank you Dr. Dang Vo

Thuy.

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