project camelot dan sherman transcript

8/2/2019 Project Camelot Dan Sherman Transcript

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ProjectCamelot|DanShermantranscriptVIDEOINTERVIEWSVIDEOINTERVIEWSSPECIALREPORTSSPECIALREPORTSAUDIOINTERVIEWSAUDIOINTERVIEWSTheBarcelonaConferenceTheBarcelonaConferenceTheBrusselsConferenceTheBrusselsConferenceTheLosAngelesConferenceTheLosAngelesConferenceTheZurichConferenceTheZurichConferenceCamelotLiveatVilcabambaCamelotLiveatVilcabambaAaronMcCollumAaronMcCollumNEW:THEANGLO-SAXONMISSIONNEW:THEANGLO-SAXONMISSIONBenjaminFulfordBenjaminFulfordDrBillDeagleDrBillDeagleBillHamiltonBillHamiltonBillHoldenBillHoldenBillRyanandKerryCassidyBillRyanandKerryCassidyBobDeanBobDeanBoriskaBoriskaDrBrianO'LearyDrBrianO'LearySgt.CliffordStoneSgt.CliffordStoneDanBurischDanBurischDanShermanDanShermanDaneTopsDaneTopsDavidCorsoDavidCorsoDavidIckeDavidIckeDavidWilcockDavidWilcockDuncanO'FinioanDuncanO'FinioanElizabethNelsonElizabethNelsonErichvonDnikenErichvonDnikenGaryMcKinnonGaryMcKinnonGeorgeGreenGeorgeGreenGordonNovelGordonNovel'HenryDeacon''HenryDeacon'JaneBrgermeisterJaneBrgermeisterJamesfromWingmakersJamesfromWingmakersJimHumbleJimHumbleJimMarrsJimMarrsJimSparksJimSparksJohnLearJohnLearJohnRobieJohnRobieJosephFarrellJosephFarrellKlausDonaKlausDonaLeoZagamiLeoZagamiDrLenHorowitzDrLenHorowitzLucaScantamburloLucaScantamburloMarciaSchaferMarciaSchaferMiriamDelicado

MiriamDelicado'Mr.X',theUFOarchivist'Mr.X',theUFOarchivistPatrickGerylPatrickGerylPeterLevendaPeterLevendaDrPetePetersonDrPetePetersonDrPaulLaVioletteDrPaulLaVioletteRalphRingRalphRingRicardoSilvaRicardoSilvaRichardHoaglandRichardHoaglandDrStevenGreerDrStevenGreerTheCrystalSkullTheCrystalSkullTonyDoddTonyDoddWadeFrazierWadeFrazierDanSherman:Interviewtranscript

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DanSherman:WayAboveBlackAvideointerviewwithDanShermanPortland,Oregon,June2007

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KerryCassidy:I'mKerryCassidyfromProjectCamelot,andwe'rehereintroducingDanSherman.He'savery,very,fascinatingguy,andweareveryinterestedandexcitedtobeabletointerviewhimheretoday.He'salittlebithardtocatch-he'snotbeendoinginterviewslately,andI

thinkhekeepsaverylowprofile.Idon'tknowifthat'sintentionalorifthat'sjustthewaythecardsfall.Dan,maybeyoucouldgiveusashortoverviewofjustwhoyouare,andwhatanamazingstoryyouhavetotell.DanSherman:Sure.Iwentintothemilitary,justlikeany18year-old,rightoutofhighschool.Iwasinacertainjob-asecuritypolicejob,andatsomepointIwaskindofledtoanotherjob,whichwaselectronicintelligence.Thisjobprovidedmeaccesstoahighersecurityclassification,andsoIgottop-secretclearancesandSCIclearances.Thatledmeintoaworldwherethe...well,tobackup,themilitarykindofhadaplanforme,asitwasrevealed


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lateron,butatthispointIdidn'tknowthatwasgoingon.Butevidently,itwasafterIhadgoneintothisotherelectronicintelligencefieldthatIwenttoaschooltogettrainedforit.Iwascalledintoanoffice,theCaptain'soffice;hewasinchargeoftheschool,Ibelieveitwas.Iwentintohisoffice,andherevealedthisamazingstorytome.EvidentlyI-atbirth,oractuallyinthewomb-Iwasgeneticallymanagedtohaveaparticularability,andthisabilitywaswhathecalled'intuitivecommunications'.Howthishappenedwas-andthisiswherealotofpeoplerollstheireyes,andIrolledmyeyesatthetime-andIwaslike,Ican'tbelievethisishappeningtome.Buthesaidthatmymotherwasabductedwhenshewaspregnantwithme.Thefetus-whichwasme-wasgeneticallymanaged.HesaideverybodyhadthisparticularabilitythatIwasgeneticallymanagedfor,butminewasjustheightenedtoannthdegree.Iwasattheschooltonotonlylearnacertainparticularprocedureformyjob,myregularjob,electronicintelligence,butIwasalsotheretogotoanotherschool,whichwastouncoverthisabilitythatIhave.Ihadtheability,butitwaslikeIwasn'tabletocontrolitortoknowitwasthereuntilitwasuncoveredtomesoIcouldpractiseatit,sotospeak.Sohetoldmewheretomeetthevanandtoldmeallthelogisticsofhowit

wouldoperateandIstartedgoingtoaschoolthatwouldallowmetouncoverthisabilityandtopracticeit.Thatwasatnighttime-inthedaytime,IwasgoingtomyregularschoolingforthejobthatIwasdoing-electronicintelligence.K:Howoldwereyouatthistime?D:Ihavetohaveacaveathere,becauseoneofthethingsthatIcan'trevealinthebookhastodowithlocations,becausethisishowtheyhidethistypeofthing.Youareassignedtoa'black'assignment,whichislegitimatelyclassifiedforareason-becauseofnationalsecurity,etc.Theydothatsotheycankeepthegrayrelatedprojectsattachedtoblackrelatedprojects,sothattheywould

haveareasontohaveheightenedsecurityatthatlocation.Therefore,theyassignpeoplewhoareapartofgrayprojectstotheseblackprojects.There'sareasontogetthemtothatlocation,andthere'sareasonforthemtobethere,andit'sallundertheguiseoftheblackprojectandthefundingoftheblackproject,etc.SomycomplicationinwritingthebookisthatIdon'twanttorevealnationalsecurityissues,becausethat'slegitimate.ImeanIdon'twantourcountrybeingcrippledbymybigmouth.Butbythesametoken,Idowanttorevealthegrayprojects,whichhavenothingtodowithnationalsecurityandhaveeverythingtodowithpowertothegovernment.SoIhavetobeverycarefulastowhatIrelease,asfarasthegrayproject

goes;howitrelatestotheblackprojectsthatIworkedon.OneofthoseisthelocationthatIwasat,ataparticulartimeandataparticularage.Idon'twanttocorrelatethesethings.K:Isee.Okay.D:I'mnottryingtoevadetheissue.Imeanitiskindofasimplequestion:Whatyearwereyoudoingthat?AnybodycanlookatmymilitaryrecordandseewhenIwenttoschoolattheNSA.Imeantheycanseethetrail,sotospeak.IcanlistallthebasesI'vebeen


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to;butwhenIstarttalkingaboutblackprojectsrelatedtothegrayprojects,Ican'tsaythatinthesamesentenceasthebasethatIhavebeenat.K:Okay.Whydon'twelistthebasesyouwereat,andgetthoseoutoftheway?Thatwayyouwon'thavetorefertoanyspecificbase.D:Sure.I'vebeenatOsanAirBaseinKorea;I'vebeenthereactuallytwice.I'vebeentoOffuttAirforceBaseinNebraska,whichistheSACHeadquarters.I'mnotsureifit'scalledSACanymore,StrategicAirCommand.SanVitoDeiNormanni-actually,it'scalled'SanVito'-inItaly,inthesoutherntipofItaly,andI'vebeentoBuckleyInternationalGuardBase,IwasstationedthereinDenver,Colorado.K:AndhaveyoumentionedGermanyyet?D:No,Ihaven'tbeenstationedinGermany.K:Youhaven't.D:No.I'vedonetemporarydutythere.I'vegonetoschoolthereandIwasdeployedthere,butneverhavebeenstationedinGermany.K:Isee.D:IwasstationedinHollandthough,andthankyouforbringingmetotheEuropeantheatre.IwasstationedinHollandforacoupleofyears.Itwasmyabsolutefavoritebase;Ilovedit.K:Areweallowedtoaskhowmanyyearsyouspentinthemilitary?D:Yeah.Iwastherefortwelveyears.Iwentin1982whenIwaseighteen,andIgotoutin1995.Ispenttwelveyearsthere.K:Tellmehowyouwantmetoputthis...asanaliencommunicator,anET

communicator?D:Well,theycalledit'intuitivecommunication'.K:Areyouanempathaswell?D:No.Idon'tthinkIaminthestrictterm;however,Icanreally,reallysensepeople'semotions,probablymorethanyouraverageperson-butIwouldn'tgosofarastosaythatI'manempathbecauseit'snotlikeoverbearingoroverpowering.I'mjustreallysensitivetopeople'smoodsandemotions.But,backtothisability...thisisanabilitythatitisreally,reallyconcrete.Imean,it'slikewearetalkingrightnow;yousaysomething,anditconveysamessageanditisaprettysolidmessage.IfIneedtoclarifythatmessageoraskyoutoclarifyit,Icanaskyoutoclarifyit,butit'savery,veryconcretecommunicationthatwearedoingwhenwe'retalking,andthat'sthe

samewaywiththeintuitivecommunications.There'snoroomforerror.Youknow,youhearaboutthesepeoplewhohavetheabilityto,what'sthatcalled,theremoteviewers,theygetthesesensesandtheseimages.It'snotrealconcrete;it'snotlikelookingatapicture.There'sroomforinterpretation,butthat'snotlikethis.Intuitivecommunicationisextremelyconcrete.Thecommunicationsarethere.K:Okay,that'sgreattohear.So,areyousayingthatyouhearavoiceinyourhead?D:No.No.It'snotavoice.K:Okay,doyouseepictures?D:It'snotvocalandit'snotimagebasedasifwhenyousend-here'sagoodanalogy-whenyousendsomebodyajpegimagethroughe-mail;thee-mailitself,

thetransmissionofthatinformation,isinbitsthroughelectronicmeans.Andthenattheotherend,thecomputercompilesthatinformation,thatelectronicinformation,andthendisplaysanimagetoyou.Whenwethinkofe-mail,wejustthinkwegotapicture.Butactually,wegotallkindsofelectronicbitsandthecomputerputitintheformofapictureforyou.Sothat'sthesamewaywithintuitivecommunications.Themediumitselfwasnotavisualmedium,butwhenitgottomeandmybrainassessedthatinformation,itputitintoapictureformesothatIcouldunderstandormymindcould


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convey-becauseIhadtoconveyallthesecommunicationsthroughacomputertosomeplace...Ihavenoideawhereitwent.ButwhenIgotacommunication,Ihadtoconveythiscommunication.Soalotofitwasrenderedinpicturesinmyhead;butsometimesitwasjustrenderedinlanguage,theEnglishlanguage,andsometimesitwasrenderedinsmellseven,sometimes.Icouldsenseasmell.K:You'regettingawholepicture,notjustsnippets?D:No,it'safullmodeofcommunications.Icansensethingsaroundthecommunications,butitwasadirect,it'skindofhardtoputitinterms,butyouknowwhenwe'resittinghereinthisinterviewroom,whenI'mtalkingtoyouandI'mlookingatyou,Iknowthatthere'sapicturethereandthere's,youknow,likeatelevisionhereandthere,soIunderstandthatthatstuffisthere.Butourcommunicationiswhatistakingupthefocusofmyattention,andthatwasthesamewaywiththeintuitivecommunications-IcouldsenseemotionsfrommycontactandIcouldsenseaperipheral-itwasn'tlikehere,'causetherearealotofthingstosensehere,but...K:Youwentintomeetwiththisman,andhebasicallytoldyouaboutyourmotherandwhatyouweretrainedfor.Isthatright?D:Yes.Well,whatIwasgoingtobetrainingfor.Yeah,hetoldmeaboutmymotherbeingabductedandhetoldmealittlebitabouttheproject.Idon'tthinkheknewalotabouttheproject,Ithinkhewasjustdoinghisjobtoo,

whichwastobemycontactandmyhandler,sotospeak.K:Andhowdidthatmakeyoufeelwhenyoufoundthisout?D:Youknowit'sfunnywhenyoulookbackonitnow,becauseIwassuchadifferentpersonthen.Obviously,Iwasveryyoung-andwhenyou'reyoungyoulookatthingsalotdifferentlythanwhenyouareolderandexperienced.Inretrospect,ifIweretobeenhavetoldthattoday,Iwouldn'thavebeensonaiveastojustacceptit;becausetoday,I'mforty-someyearsoldandyoudon'tacceptthingsatfacevaluethewayyoudowhenyou'reyoungerandyouhavenoinhibitions.You'relike,Yeah,okay,let'sdothis!Therewassomesortofskepticism,becauseIknewthatinthemilitaryalotoftimesyougetjokedonor'punked',orwhateveryouwanttocallit...youknow,initiationsandstuff.IknewthatIwascomingtoaschoolandtherewasa

smallworrytherethatitwasajokeandsomeonewasgoingtojumpoutoftheclosetandsay,Ha-ha,youbelievethisalienthing!Ofcourse,thatdidn'thappen.But,forthemostpart,itwasthemilitary;itwasthemilitaryinme.Isaid,Okay,well,thisisamissionandI'vegottoacceptthisasjustanotherrealityinmylife,andI'vegottomoveonanddowhatI'mtold.Butitwasshocking.K:Itwasshocking.D:Itwasveryshocking.K:Okay,becauseIwasjustwondering,didyouhaveexperiencesinyourchildhoodthatmighthavepreparedyouforthatmoment,suchthatyoumighthaveaccepteditalittlequicker,alittleeasier?Youwerealmostcreatedtodoa

certainmission.Soitwaswithinyourprogramming,tousethattermveryloosely,tobepreparedforthatnotion.DidyouhaveanyconsciousmemoriesofyourownETexperiences?D:IonlydidthatinretrospectlateronasIthoughtaboutit.Ofcourse,itdidn'toccurtomeatthatparticularmomentwhenhetoldme.Justtoclarifyalso,mymothergotpregnantinaverynormalwaysothatthecreationitselfwastherenormally,butitwasoneofthequestionsIhad.AmIhuman?AmI100%human?Andhesaid,Yes,you'redefinitely100%human.It'sjustthatyourgeneticmake-upwastweakedalittlebittoallowforthisheightenedability.


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K:AnddoyouhaveaCelticbackground,likemanypeopleofthatnatureor...youknowwhatI'msaying?D:Youmeanformygenealogy?K:Yeah.D:We'refromEurope-northernEurope-EnglandandFrance,andIhavealittlebitofCherokeeinme,too.K:IwasgoingtoaskyouifyouhavesomeIndian.Okay,sothereyougo.Didyouevertalktoyourmotheraboutthis?D:Yes.Yes,Ihavetalkedtomymother.Ididn'ttalktoheruntilaboutfouryearsafterthebookcameoutbecauseIjustfeltthatbringingituptomymomreallywouldn'taddanythingtothescenarioanditjustmight,dependingonherreaction,havebeendetrimentaltoourrelationship.So,Ihadtoweighttheprosandconsofactuallytalkingtoheraboutit.IfshedidhavememoriesofsomethingandshedidacceptandsupportmycomingoutwithwhatIdidcomeoutwith-mystory-thenitreallydoesn'taddanythingtothestorybecausethestoryisthestory.Imeanmyexperienceistheexperience,andthereisnothingthat'sgoingtotakeawayfromthat,becauseithappened.Buthersayingthatsomethinghappenedwouldhavebeenniceanditwouldhavebeenalittlebitofanaddendumtomyexperience.Butifshedidn'thaveanymemoriesandshedidn'tacceptit-becauseitisahardthingtounderstandand

tobelieveforalotofpeople-Ididn'twanttoriskourrelationshipdeterioratingbecauseofmyexperience.Itwasadifficultdecision,butIfinallytookheroutonedayandItoldherthatIhadwrittenabookandshewaslike,What?Nowmymotherisnotexactlyaworldtraveleryouknow,shelivesinherownlittleworldandthat'sit.SoIwasn'ttooconcernedaboutherrunningacrossthebookanywhere.SoItoldherandshesaidshedidn'thaveanymemoriesofanyabductionsoranythingbutshehashadsomeuniqueexperiences.SheactuallysawaUFOonetime.Irememberitbecauseshewasscreamingandholleringinthebedroom,andIcame,andshesawitoutthewindow,soIrememberthat.Shehashadsomeuniqueexperiences,butshefullyacceptsit;shesaysshe

knowsthepersonIam,andthatI'mnotgoingtobesayingstufflikethatifit'snotsomethingthatactuallyhappened.Soshe'sfinewithit,butshedoesn'thaveanymemories,sothereisnocorrelationthere,sotospeak.K:Okay.Soyouweretoldthatyouwerebroughtinandactuallygivensortofadeeperclearanceinordertodothisnewprogram,right?D:Well,theclearanceswerethesamebecauseatthisparticularbasewhereIwasgoingtoschooltherewasnocover,theblackcover,sotospeak.Theyalwaysmakeyousignthesepaperssayingyou'renotgoingtodiscussthis,thatandtheotherthing.AsitappliestothegrayprojectsIworkedon,it'skindofamootpointbecausethereisnopapertrail,there'snoproofthatanybodycouldbringoutofafacilitythatproveswhatyouaredoingwiththegrayprojects.K:So,thisispurposefulonthepartofthemilitaryobviously,ifthereisno

papertrail.Thisiswhattheywant.D:Yeah,andthat'showtheyhideitsowell.Becausewhenyouworkon-intheearlyeighties,IworkedontheF117StealththinginDreamland,sotospeak,inNevada.Youknow,youcouldslipinacameraandtakeapictureofsomething;it'sfeasible.So,there'sactualproofthatyoucangather.Nowyouprobablywouldn'twantto,becauseofthetroubleyou'dgetin,butthere'ssomethingyoucouldbringout,andprovewhatyou'reworkingon.


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Butwiththegrayprojects,atleastthelevelatwhichIworked,therewasabsolutelynolevelofproofthatyoucouldbringoutofanywhere.Imean,Icouldlookandlookandlook,andtherewasnowayIcouldbringanyproofoutofthefacility-andthat'showtheydesignedit.Theywanttohavetheabilitytodenyitandnothaveanytrumpcardthatsays,waitaminute,lookatthis-whateverproofsyoumighthave.K:Sointermsofthenutsandbolts,Irememberthedescription-youwentintothis-itsoundedlikeatrailer.Idon'tknowifitliterallywasatrailer,butitwasaplacethatwascompartmentalizedinsuchawaythatyouwereinhalfofit,andtherewasanotherperson,atamonitor,intheotherhalf,andyoubasicallyweren'tallowedtotalktoanybody.Couldyoudescribethatscenario?D:Sure.Thatwasatafunctioningbase,thatwasn'tatthetrainingfacility.Iwasdoingmyactualrealjob,electronicintelligence.WehadaC-van;itwascalledaC-van,kindoflikeatrailer,butnowheels.Yougointoit,andwehadtwostationsinthisvan.Iworkedonestationandmypartnerworkedtheotherstation.Wecouldn'tbeinthetrailerapartfromoneanother;webothhadtobeinthetraileratthesametime,becauseofthe...well,wejusthadtobeinthetraileratthesametime.ButhehadnoclueastowhatIwasdoingwiththegrayproject.K:So,hewasn'tpartofthegrayproject,toyourknowledge?

D:No.Well,nottomyknowledge,butIhaveafeelingthatIwasprobablytheonlyonetherethatwaspartofthegrayproject.K:Inasense,you'reapsychic.D:Yeah...Iguessyoucouldcallmeavery,veryspecializedpsychic.[laughs]K:Okay.Doyouhavethesameabilities-thatyouhadwiththegrayaliensthatyouwerecommunicatingwith-withhumans?D:Well,that'saquestionIgetposedoften,andIalwayshavetothinkaboutit,because...Iguessit'spossible,iftheotherpersonhadthesametypeofheightenedability,andwhoknows?IfIhadstayedinlonger,perhapsitwouldhavemigratedtothatlevelforthetraining,becauseateverypointinmyjobthatIwasdoingwiththegrayproject,itwasalwaystraining,that'sallIdid,wastrain.

WhattheytoldmewasthatIwastrainingforaparticularthinginthefuturethatwasgoingtohappen,andIneededtobeuptosnuff,sotospeak,andabletodoitwithoutanyreservationsandwithoutanymistakes.So,thecommunicationsthatIwasreceivingconstantly,weekin,weekout,andthatIwouldconveythroughthecomputerwhenIwastypingitintothecomputer,wasalljustatest.Basically,Iwasjusttraining,training,moretraining.Nowtheinitialtrainingattheschoolwastouncovertheabilities,butthenwhenIwentoperationalatotherbases,twootherbasesthatIdidthisat,thatwastrainingaswell.K:Wasthatonthejobtrainingatthatpoint?Imean,youknow,toputitinthoseterms.Becauseatthatpoint,youwereactuallyincommunicationwithan

alien,whereasintheinitialtraining-maybeyoucandescribethat-therewasaflatline,whichyouactuallyweresupposedtomovearoundwithyourmind.D:ThetechnologyobviouslycamefromtheETspeciesthatwewereincontactwith.Attheschool,Iwasn'tcommunicatingwithanET.Itwaskindoflikeabiofeedbackmachine,butonatotallydifferentlevel,becauseIwasn'tconnectedtothemachineatall.Itstartedoutbyhavingtheseboxesonacomputerscreenandhadanoscilloscopestraightlineforeachoneoftheboxes,andIwastoldtoconcentrateonatonethatwasbeingplayedinmyearonthe


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headphones,andtheinstructionsweretoimmenselyhumthistone.Thatisahardthingtodo-tomentallyhum.You'rehummingyetitisnotvocalandit'sinyourmind,buttheysaidthatiswhatyouhavetoconcentrateon,tomentallyhum.So,Iwouldmentallyhumthisparticulartonetheywouldbeplayinginmyearphones,andthenatsomepointIstartedtosensethatthelineIwaslookingatwhenIwasdoingthiswasconnectedinmymindsomehowandthatIcouldmoveit,butittookawhile.Ittookseveraldaysformetoeven...andthatwasjusttorture,youknow,threeorfourhoursofjustsittingtherementallyhummingsomethingforacoupleofdayswithoutanysensethatsomethingwasactuallygoingtohappen.I'mthinkingsomeonewasgoingtojumpoutofaclosetagainandsay,Ican'tbelieveyouhavebeenmentallyhummingthistoneforthreedays!But,anyway,IdiditandasIwriteinthebook,it'skindoflikeasenseofclicking.Itwasn'tanaudibleclick,butitwaslikewhenyou'reupagainstthisforceandthenallofasuddentheforcegiveswayandyoucanmoveyourhandagainstthatforce,andyoucanmoveyourhandquickerbecausetheforcehasbeentakenaway.That'skindofhowitfelt,asthisresistance,andthentheresistancegaveaway.K:Diditgrow,thisability?Onceyouclicked,wasitjustthere,ordidyou

feelthattherewasanadvancementthatyouwentthrough?D:Ohyeah,definitelyanadvancement.Anditwasvery,veryoddbecauseoncemymindknewhowtoovercomethatlittlebitoftheresistancetotheabilities...itwasweirdbecausemymindautomaticallyknewwhattodoandsoitgrewuponitselfwithoutmeovertlydoingsomething.Ofcourse,Iwasmentallyengagedintheexercisesthattheygaveme,butIcouldsensethattherewasthisexponentiallearningthatwasgoingoninmybrain.ItwasjusttheoddestfeelingandduringthistimeIhadtheseweirddreams.Itwasaveryoddtimementally.Andthen,ofcourse,Iwasgoingtomyregularschooltoo,atwhichIhadtokeepmygradesup;soitwasmentallyexhausting,theseveralweeksIwasthere.

Itwasanincredibleexperience,fromthementalstandpoint.K:Sogoingthroughyourregulartrainingactuallygaveyouacoverstory,orgaveyouareasontobewhereveryouwere.It'slikethelayersoftheonion.So,inasense,ifIrecall,you'dgointodoajobandeveryonearoundyouwouldthinkyouweredoingthatparticularjob,youwereequippedtodothatjobbut,inessenceyouweredoingthisotherjob.D:Yeah,butIhadtodothatotherjobtooanditwasanimportantjob.K:Soyouwerealwaysdoingtwojobs?D:Yeah,atthebasesIwasat,thetwobases-thesecretagentaspectofmylifeandthenaregularJoeaspectofmylife.So,theygavemetheseelaborateinstructionsonhowthecontactwouldhappen.Whenyousaycontactinthiscontext,youcouldbetalkingaboutalotofthings

[laughs]solet'sgettherightterminologydown.K:Absolutely.D:So,thatwasmyhumancontactwithinthegrayproject.K:Soyougotothisbase,andyousitatthecomputerandwhathappensisthatyouarecommunicatingoropentocommunicatementallywithanET?We'renotsurewhethertheETis...didyouactuallyknowiftheETwasonearthatthetime?D:No.K:Oritcouldbeanywhere?


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D:Ineverknewofanylocation.K:Okay.So,thebeingisalmostkindofdictatingtoyou;wouldthatbecorrect?D:Yeah,inourterms,yeah.K:Theyjustknewthattheyhadacommunicationchannelthroughyoutogettothemilitary,sotospeak?D:Yeah.I'mconvincedthattherewasalooptheresomewherebecausethewholepointofmetypingitintothecomputersothatsomebodysomewherecouldreadit,wassothattheycouldverifytheinformationforaccuracy,becausethatisessentiallywhatIwasdoing,justhoninginmyskillstomakesurethatIwasaccuratelyconveyingthemessagesthatwerebeingrelayedtome.K:Butwasn'titthatyouactuallyfoundoutthatthosemessageswere(about)abductionsthatwerehappening?D:Itjustsohappensthatsomeofthatinformationseemedtometobeinformationaboutabductions;andthat'sthewholeproblemwiththisentireexperience.Alotofthingsjustdon'tmakeanysense.Imean,whywouldtheybeconveyingthattypeofinformationtome?Somaybeatsomesortoffutureeventtheyweregoingtobeusingmetoconveythistypeofinformation,abductioninformation,Ihavenoidea.ButIstartedtoreceiveinformation,likeyousaid,thatreallycorrelatedtomelikeithadsomethingtodowithabductions,becausetherewerefields,sotospeak,likefillingoutaform,therewerefields.

Ortherewerethesepiecesofinformationthatwereapotentialityforrecall,Irememberthatone;residualpainlevelsandlatitudesandlongitudes...soImeanmaybetheyweren'tabductionscenariosorabductioninformation,butitreallyseemedtomethatitwasbecauseofthedifferentbitsofinformationthatwerebeingcommunicated.Andthatwas-Iguesswe'regettingaheadofourselves,butthatwastowardstheendwhereIwaslike,ThisisjustgoingwayfurtherthanIeverwanteditto.AndwhenIgottheinformationaboutresidualpainlevels-thatreally,really,reallyhitme-like,Aretherepeoplebeingharmedbecauseofthis?Theyhadadifferentspectrumwiththeresidualpainlevels.Theywereforwarded

allthewayfromlowdigitsallthewayuptoreallyhighdigits,like100allthewaydownto2and3andsoIwasthinking,well,ononeendofthatspectrumsomebodyisgettinghurt.Maybeontheotheronetheyaren'tgettinghurtbutifthereisaresidualpainlevelat2andthereisaresidualpainlevelat100,somebody,oneofthose,isonthebadend.K:Sothissoundedlikeithadtobesomethingthatwashappeningontheplanet,sothatthemilitarycouldcheckwhetherornotyouwereactuallybeingaccurate.D:Yeah.

K:Ifitwassomethingoffplanettheywouldn'tnecessarily,theoreticallyanyway,beabletocheckit.Soitwouldhavetobeonplanet.D:Well,notnecessarilybecauseiftheyhavealoopbacktotheETsthatIwascontactingwith,andtheETstoldthemwhatthecorrectinformationwasthenthatwouldcompletetheloopregardlessofwheretheywereat.K:Okay,meaningtherehadtobeanothercommunicatorintheloop.BecauseI'massumingonsomeleveltheywouldn'tneedyouiftheycouldcommunicatedirectlythewayIamcommunicatingwithyou.D:Exactly.Idon'tthinkthatwastheonlywaytocommunicatewiththem.


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ThisiswhatwastoldtomeinthemeetingthatIhad,thefirstmeeting-thewholepurposeofthisproject,ProjectPreserveDestiny,wastotrainthesecognitiveindividualsthatwouldbeabletocommunicateintuitively;becauseatsomecertaineventinthefuture,thatwasgoingtobetheonlywaythatwecancommunicate;becauseelectromagneticcommunicationsweregoingtobedisruptedonaworld-widescale.Theonlywaythattheworldleadersandmilitaryandallthesepeoplewhoareinchargeoftheworld,sotospeak,allthesedifferentcountries,differentlevelsofgovernment-theonlywaythattheywouldbeabletocommunicateisthroughthisnetworkofintuitivecommunicators.K:Andagain,we'regoingtojumpaheadalittlebitheresimplybecausewecan'tsithereandreadyourbookfromstarttofinish,whichIwouldencourageeveryonetodo.It'sremarkableinthatyoudon'telaborateorembellishorgoofftrack.Youreallyjusttellthestoryinaverynutsandboltsfashion.D:Well,ItellpeopleifIwastomakeupastory,itwouldbealotmoreelaboratethanthis,butIwantedtosticktowhathappenedtomeandleteverybodyelseconjectureuponthat;becauseifIstartconjecturing,thenIthinkitsulliesmycredibility,sotospeak.K:Youmean,asawitness?D:Yes,Ineedtosticktothefacts.K:Youdevelopedarelationship,notnecessarilywiththefirstETthatyouwerecommunicatingwithbutwiththesecondone.Isthatright?

D:Well,whenyousayrelationship,that'skindofalooseterm![laughs]Wedidn'thavefiresidechatsbut,whatyou'rereferringtois-atsomepoint,therewasadifferentlevelofcommunicationsthatIstumbledupon,andthat'soneofthemostdifficultthingsIhadtoexplaininthebook,becauseitisreallyhardtodescribethenutsandboltsofthecommunicationitself-letaloneanotherlevelofthecommunication.So,sufficeittosaythatatsomepointIdiscoveredthisotherlevel.Igotthesensethatafterhisreaction-myETcontact-afterhisreaction,Igotthesensethatthatwasn'tamonitoredlevelofcommunications.Iguessit'samootpoint;itdoesn'treallymatterifitwasmonitored.Ifeltmorecomfortabletalkingoutofline,sotospeak,orcommunicatingotherthantheofficialcommunicationsthatwewereconveying.Itwasinterestinghowthesecommunicationshappened,becausetheyhappened

instantaneously.However,again,myconversionofthatconversationhadtobeconvertedtorealtime;whichmeans,inthehumanworld,wehavetostartdoingsomethingandthenweenddoingsomething,andinbetweenthereisatimeframe.SoIwouldgetthecommunicationandthenIwouldstarttypingitandhewouldjusthangontheline,sotospeak,untilIgotdonesothatifIneededanyclarificationonsomething,thenIcouldaskforclarification.Youknowit'sfunnyinretrospect,becauseatthetimethatthiswashappeningIneverknewinmywildestdreamsthatIwouldactuallybetalkingaboutthistosomebody.IalwaysthoughtthatitwouldbeclassifiedandIwouldneverdiscussit.Soinretrospectnick-namingthemSpockandBoneswasprobablynotthebestthingformycredibilitybecauseitlookslikeI'membellishingtomakeitlook

funny.K:Well,that'sverypoetic.Let'sputitthatway.D:Thankyouforclarifyingthat-butthefirstonewasnamedSpockbecauseofthelogicalnatureinwhichthecommunicationshappened.Theiremotionswereverymuchbasedinlogicalthoughtheyhadotheremotionstoo,itwasmuchmorelogicalthanourconversations,soInicknamedhimSpockinmyownmind,that'swhatIreferredtohimas.AndthenonthesecondcontactatthesecondbaseitwasadifferentETcontact,andsoIjustwentalongwiththe'StarTrek'themeandnamedhimBones,but


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therewasnoreasontonamehimthat.K:Couldyouseethesebeingswhileyouwerecommunicatingwiththeminyourmind?D:No.IbelieveatonepointItriedtoconveymydesiretoseeortogetavisual,butInevergotavisualofanything,notofthem.Igotvisualstimulus,youknow,plentyofvisualstimulusbutnothingofthem.Thatwouldhavebeen...again,that'soneofthethingsinthebookthatwouldhavebeennicetobeabletohavedrawingsandallkindsofniftystuff,but...K:Okay,so'Bones',thesecondone,comesonthescene,andyou'recommunicatingwithhiminthisnormalsortofwaythatyouhavebeenusedtodoing,whichisreceivingcommunications.Atwhatpointinthelengthofexposuretothisbeingdidyousuddenlyreachthatplace?Canyoudescribethattransition?D:AsIrecall,IthinkitstartedwithSpock,towardstheendofourtimetogether.K:SoevenwithSpock,youweregettingtothat?D:Yeah,Ithinkthat'swhenitstarted.Ican'tquitesaythatfor100%sure,butIthinkitwasattheendofourcontact,atthetimewewerecontactingoneanother.Ithinkitwastowardstheendofthat,butmostofthatcommunicationwaswithBonesbecauseIhaddiscovereditalready,andfeltmorecomfortablebythattime.AtsomepointthecontactsaidtheywerequitesurprisedthatIwould

beabletodothat,becausethat'snotalevelofcommunicationtypically,thatintuitivecommunicatorsarecapableof.I'msuretheyhavetheabilitythattheyfind,sotospeak.K:Whathappenedthen?Canyoutellusalittlebitaboutyourdialogwiththem?Werethesecommunicationshappeningoutsideofyourworkhours?D:No.Never.K:Absolutelynever?D:Well,Itriedto,atonepointbuttherewasno...well,letmestepbackalittlebit.Ididstarttoreceiveonce,onetimeinthedorm,andItoldhimthatIwasn'tatworkandthatIwasn'tatmystationandsohesignedoff.ButIthinkitwasjustkindofaclericalerror,amistakeorsomething.Hedidn't

realizethatIwasn'tatwork.Obviously,theyhavemyschedulebecausetheywouldstartthecommunicationwhenIwasatwork.K:Okay-butinwhatyoucalltheinformalcommunication,youwerenotcommunicatingthisinformaldialoguetoyoursuperiors,right?D:No.K:Youweren'ttypingitintothemachine?D:No.IfitwereaquestionthatIposedtothem,thenIwouldn'tconveyanyanswers,sotospeak;butconversely,Ihardlyevergotanyanswers.Soitwaskindofamootpointbut...K:Okay.Well,youhadarelationshipofsortswithBones,inwhatyouwereabletoaskhimquestionsandhewouldrespondfromtimetotime.D:Sure.

K:Andyoufeltthatitwassomethingofaninformaldialogueasyoucalledit.D:Yeah.K:Canyourecallvariousdialoguepointsthatyouhad?D:Sure.TherewerealotofimpressionsthatIwasleftwithregardingourcommunicationsandregardingthem.I'vealwaysbeeninterestedintimeandtimetravelandstuff.SoIdidtrytopickhisbrainsotospeak,asfarashowtheytravelandhowtheygothereandhowitrelatestoourtime.WhatIgotwastheimpressionthattheydousetimetotravel,butnotinthesensethatwethink-wheretheycangobackwardsandforwardintime.Iasked


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themaboutthat.Isaid,Canwegobackwardandforwardintime?TheimpressionIgotwasyoucouldn'tgobackwardandforwardintimebecausetimeisrelative.Soifyougobacktenminutesfromrightnow-well,rightnowisrelative.It'sarelativetimepoint,notasolidtimepoint.Soyoucan'tgobackfromsomethingthat'srelativetoeverythingelseanyway.So,whathesaysis,theycouldgoaroundtime.NowIreallydidn'tunderstandthat,buthesaidyougoaroundusingelectromagneticenergy.Youcouldgoaroundtime.AsIthoughtaboutitlater...youreadaboutEinstein'stheorythatlightcanbendwhenit'sgoingbyaplanet.Itwillbendbecauseofthegravitationalpulloftheplanet.Ithinktheyusethatgravitationalenergy,sotospeak,togoaroundtime.Idon'tthinktheycangobackahalf-hourfromrightnowandexperiencethattimeframe.Buttheydousetimeinsomesortofwaytotravelbecausetheydotravellongdistances,hesaid.K:Inotherwordshedidn't,then...DanBurischtalksabouthisrelationshipwithaJ-rod.Idon'tknowifyou'refamiliarwithhis...D:No.K:...hisrelationshipwithaJ-rodcalledChi'el'ah-andhesaysthatChi'el'ahwasatimetravelingETwhocamebackaroundthetimeofRoswell,andthattheyhadamission.WereyoutoldbyBonesthathecamefromthefuture?

D:Well,no.TheimpressionIgotregardingtimewastheycouldn'tdothat.Theycouldn'tgobackwardandforwardintime.Nowofcourse,thiswasanimpressionIgotanditwasn'tsomethingwherebyhegavemealgorithmsandgavemetheproof-youknow,thatthiscan'thappenandthiscan'thappen-butashetoldme,theyusetimetotravel.Theygoaroundtime,buttheydon'tgothroughtime.Theydon'tgobackwardsandforwardintime.Theyjustusetimetotravel;whichis,theygoaroundit.K:Perhapsgoingaroundit...D:Itsverydifficult...K:...maybetheybendit?D:Yeahthat'stheimpressionthatIgotisthattheybendtime.

K:Theybendtime.D:Idon'tknowwhatthepracticalapplicationofthatisthough,unfortunately.K:Yeah,obviouslywe'renotphysicistshere.D:[Laughing]Yeah,exactly.K:Butifyoubendtime-certainlyifIbendsomething,andI'vegotaline,andoverhereis2012andoverhereis1920-ifIbendtimeandbringthemtogether,I'mgoingfrom2012to1920orvisaversa.InasenseIamtravelingthroughtime.D:Yep.K:ButI'mbendingit.D:Yep.K:SoIunderstandmaybe...D:Therecouldwellbeveryspecificthingsthathewastalkingaboutrelatedto

theirparticularabilities.PerhapssomeotherETspecieshasdifferentabilities,Idon'tknow.Hedidconveythattheydiduseitfortraveling.K:Okay...andwhataboutthecrafts?Didtheytellyouanythingabouttheircrafts-howtheywerepropelled,etcetera?D:No.No,justelectromagneticenergyandtime,that'swhatIgotfromhim.IdidaskhimaboutGodandthewholereligionaspectofhowitrelatestothemandus.Hesaidthatwearecreated.Hesaid'we'asinthemandus.The'we'aspectwasgeneric-bothofus,insteadofsaying'we'asinthem,itwasinthecontextofallofus.


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Hesaidthatwearecreated;weareofthesamecreation.Hesaidtherearetwocreations.Oneistheintelligentcreation,andoneisthenon-intelligentcreation.We,themandus,arepartofthesameintelligentcreation.Nowhedidn'tsay,hedidn'tspecifyanyreligionsoranythinglikethat.Hejustsaidthatwearepartofthesamecreation.We'reallcreated,whichIthoughtwasveryinterestingfromanETaspectofit,becauseyouwouldn'tthinkthatanETwouldadmitto...becauseoftheirhigherlevelofintelligence.Alotofpeoplethinkthattheycreatedus.K:Sothat'swhatyouweretold,thatthisparticulargroupyourepresentedwasnotresponsibleforcreatingus.D:No,hedidn'tsaythatbuthesaidthatwearepartofthesamecreation,whichwouldleadmetobelievethattheydidnotcreateus,butweareallcreated.K:DidyouaskhimaboutJesus?D:Idid.K:LotsofpeopleliketosaythatJesuswasanET,orapartialET.D:Yeah,InevergotanyinformationregardinganythingrelatedtoJesus,oraspecificreligionoranything.K:Okay,howdidyouknowwhatspeciesofEThewas,ordidyouknow?D:No.K:Inotherwords,didyoursuperiorssayyou'regoingtobetalkingtoaGray?D:No.K:OrhecouldhavebeenNordicforallweknow.

D:[laughing]Yeah,youknow,Idon'tevenkeepuponthedifferentspeciessoIhaveabsolutelynoclue.TheyhadnicknamesfortheGraysoroneofthemwasGray.It'sactuallycalledtheGrayProjectthatweworkedon.Theyalsocalledthem'slant'missions,andIdon'texactlyknowwhatorhowthatrelates;butitisreferredtoasthe'missions'.Ifyou'reonagraymission,it'scalledaslantmission,soIdon'tknowhowthatrelatestothespecies.Iwasnevertoldanythingrelatingtoaspecificspecies.K:HowlongdidyourcommunicationwithBones-withtheinformalnatureofit-goon?

D:Well,itwasprettymuchthewholetimewewerecommunicating,whichIthinkwasprobablyaround10monthsorso.K:Okay-sointenmonthstimeyoumusthaveaskedhimalotofquestions?D:Wellyeah,Itriedto.Youknowalotoftimesthecommunicationswouldhappen,andastimewentonIgotbetteratthecommunicationsandBonesknewthat,sohedidn'tstayonaslongfortheclarification.SoIwouldreallyhavetobequickwithmyquestion,ifIhadaquestion.It'skindoflikehavingarelationshipwithyourgrandfatheroverthecourseoftwoorthreeyears.Thenfiveyearslaterthere'ssomeoneasking,Well,whatdidyourgrandpathinkaboutpoliticalissues?You're,Well,grandpawasconservative,orgrandpawas...Soyoudon'trememberanexactconversation

exactlyaboutwhathesaid.Butyougetthissenseoftheanswersovertimebecauseyouknowbasedontheconversationsyou'vehad.SowhenIrevealedthethingsthatI'velearnedfromthemit'snotwordforwordyouknow,exactquotes.It'stheimpressionIgotafteraskingthem3or4timesinaparticularareaandsoitsmyreportingofmyimpressionsofwhatthey'vecommunicatedtomeoverthespanofthe2yearsthatIdidthis.K:Atsomepointyoudevelopedasortofaconscienceaboutwhatyouweredoing.D:Yeah.


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K:AndI'mgoingtoassumethisimpactedwhyyouleftintheendanyway.D:Uhhuh.K:Butyoumusthaveaskedhimabouttheabductions?D:YeahIdid,andInevergotanyanswersforthat,never.Itwasjustcommunicationandthenhewasgone.K:Okay-intheabductions,yousaidyougotlatitudesandlongitudes.Whatwastheimplication?Werepeoplebeingabductedallovertheplanetonaregularbasis?Areyouabletotellus...wastheremoremassabductions?Weretheremassabductionsandwheredidtheyhappen?D:Well,ImeanIdidn'tgethundredsofthem,youknow,Imaybegotacoupledozenorthreedozenorsomethinglikethat.Soitwasn'talotofthemandtotellyouthetruthIdidn'treally,untilmaybehadgottenacoupleofdozenthemorwhatever,Ididn'treallystartthinking,Well,waitaminute.Itdidn'treallystartdawningonmeuntilIhadreceivedseveralofthemthatthismightbesomethingthatisodd.Thenrighttowardtheend-andthat'sprobablywhyIstoppedgettingthemisbecauseIstartedtoaskmyhandleraboutthem.What'sthis,whatisthisinformation?Itseemslikeabductionsanditseemslikethere'spain,youknowthattypeofthing.TheanswerIalwaysgotbackfromthehandlerwas,Justcommunicatewhatyou'retold,whatisbeingcommunicatedtoyou.Justcommunicatethattousanddon'taskquestions.You'renotheretoaskquestions.You'reheretopracticeyour

ability.Sothenyouknow,thenIgotfrustratedandofcoursethere'salotofotherthingsgoingonwithmypersonallife.Ididn'twanttobethereanymore.ImeanIdidn'twanttohavethisgoingoninmylifeanymorebecauseitwasaffectingmypersonallife.Icouldn'tgetclosetopeoplebecauseIdidn'twanttotalkaboutthings.ImeanIwasjusthavingalotofpsychologicalissueswithhavingthistypeofjobbecauseitwasisolatingmefromtheworld,inmymindatthetime.ImeanmaybeIwouldhaveworkedthroughthatbut....K:So,ProjectPreserveDestiny...whatistheobjectiveofthatprojecttoyourknowledge?

D:Yes.AsitwastoldtomewhenIwasbriefedintotheprojectattheschool,thereisgoingtobesomesortofeventinthefuturethatisgoingtowipeoutalltheelectromagneticenergy.NowIdon'tknowifthat'satemporaryknockoutorapermanentknockoutorsemi-permanent,orwhatever.Idon'tknowthat.Buthesaidthere'sgoingtobesomesortofevent,andthatthisgroupofindividuals,ofintuitivecommunicators,weregoingtobethecommunicationsconduitforworldleaders,andthey'regoingtobestrategicallyplacedallaroundtheworldsothattheycanconveythecommunications,andtheycanconveywhatthatcommunicationistothepeoplearoundthemorwhoever,theleadersorwhoever.K:Inotherwords,they'retheonlyoneswhoaregoingtobeabletocommunicate

withtheETsandthentothehumansinthemilitary,becauseitcertainlyisn'tjusthuman-to-human.It'sET-to-human.D:Well,that'skindofthewildcardthatIdon'tknow.Idon'tthinkIstayedlongenoughinordertofindoutthedifferentmethodsthismighttake,youknow,orthedifferentchannels.K:ButyouwerecommunicatingwithanalienoranETsoithadtoinvolveETcommunication.D:Well,that'stheassumption.K:Haveyoubeenbroughtbackintothemilitaryorhaveyoubeeninterviewed,likeI'minterviewingyou?Haveyoubeenaskedtogive,Idon'tknow,adownload


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astowhatreallyhappenedbecauseatthispointyou'reoutsidethemilitary?You'vewrittenabook.Themilitaryisinterestedinallthisbecausetheybroughtyouin,inthebeginning.Soareyouatlibertytosayifthishashappened?D:Well...no,Ihaven'tbeencontactedbythegovernment,butIwillsaythatatonetimeIwasonthephonewithaproducerfromareally,reallypopularradioshow,likeoneofthetoptwointhenation.AfterIgotoffthephonewiththeproducerIgotacallonmycellphone.Igotacallfromsomebodyanditsaid,Don'ttakeitanyfurther!orsometerminologythatsaidStopthispursuit!andthenjusthungup.Iwaslike,Isatthereforfiveminutesthinking,Howintheworld...?Idon'tunderstandthis!BecauseIwasonthephonewiththisproducer,anditwasn'tmorethanthirtysecondsoraminuteafterIgotoffthephonewiththisproducerthatIgotthatphonecall.ThatwastheonlythingthathasevenhappenedinallthecommunicationsIhavehad,alltheconferencesthatIhavedone,andallthisstuff,thebook.I'venevergottenanytypeofcommunicationfromthegovernmentandIjustgotthatphonecall.Whoknows,itmighthavebeentheproducercallingmebackandjusttryingtoscaremeasajokeorsomething.Idon'tknow,butitwasquiteodd.That'swhatwasunusualaboutit,becauseIwasonmycellphonewiththeproducerandthelandlinethatIwasat,atthetime,called.That'swhyIthoughitwasweirdbecauseifitwerethecellphonethenmaybeIwouldthink

thatsomebodywas...K:Somebodycallingyouback.D:Yeah.K:Obviouslytappingyourcommunications.Imeanwhywouldn'tthey?Nowyou'reanelectronicsexpert,areyounot?D:Well,inavery,verylimitedcapacitywithwhatIwasdoinginthemilitary.Yeah,Iknewalotaboutit.K:Okay,soyoumustknowaboutsurveillancetechniquesand...D:Sure.K:...whattheyhaveattheirdisposal.Andyoumustbeconscious,Imeanevenasatelepathtosomedegree,youmustknowthatyou'rebeingmonitored?D:Oh,yeah.WhenIfirstreleasedthebookIdiditinawaythatiftherewas

goingtobesomesortofinterestingactivityfromthegovernmentwhenIreleasedit,thattheyreallycouldn'tdoanythingaboutit.Isentittooneofthelargestwebsitesatthetimeandthiswas1997,sothewebwasn'tasbigasitistoday,obviously,buttherewasasitecalled'ufomind.com'andGlennCampbell-helivesinLasVegasorsomewherearoundthere-wasrunningit.Idon'tknowwhereitisnoworhowbigitisnow,butitwasthebiggestUFOrelated,alienrelatedtypeofsite.Isentthemanuscripttohimandthenwereleasedthebook.SoIwantedittobeoutthereinthepublicwithsomebodybeforeitactuallygotprinted.Soanyway,rightafterIwrotethebookIsentsomepicturestoaUFOmagazineinEngland.AladyeditornamedGeorginaBueller,orsomethinglikethat.Anyway,Isentittoher.Shesaidshesentthemback-Inevergotthemback.

Theywereveryinterestingpictures.TheywerethepicturesofoneofthebasesIwasstationedat.I'mabsolutelypositivethatsomebodydidnotwantthosepicturestocontinuetobecopied.ButtheywerepublishedintheUFOmagazinethatmonth.Anyway,thosearetheonlytwoscenariosthatI'vecomeacross.Ifyouthinkaboutitthough,theyhavenoincentivetodoanythingtosilenceme-becauseiftheydosomething,thenthatjustbringsacertainlevelofpressorwhatevertothesituationbecausesomethinghasbeendoneaboutwhatI'msaying.Ifyoudon'tdoanythingaboutwhatI'msaying,thenitskindoflumpedinwith


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alltheother,youknow,looniesorwhoeverelseisouttheretalkingaboutaliensandthings.K:Right.D:Ithinktheirconcernwas:amIgoingtohaveanyevidence?AndofcourseIhadabsolutelynoevidenceoftheGrayProject.Sotothemitslikeyouknow,whatever.K:Youcouldjustbeanutcaseoutthere.D:Exactly.K:ButontopofitImeanIhavetosayyou'vekeptaprettylowprofile.Youliveinakindofanobscurearea,excusemeforsayingthat...D:[laughs]K:...butitis...D:Yeah.K:...youknow,tosomedegree.D:Sure.K:AndsomeofthepeopleintheUFOcircuit,ifyouwill,areprettyflamboyantandoutthere,andconstantly...D:Highprofile,yeah.K:...seenaroundandwhatnot.Youarekindoflowprofile.D:Well,youknow,it'sinteresting-becausewhatlendsmystoryahigherdegreeofcredibilityisthatI'mnotatypicalpersonlikeyoujustsaid,liketheyseeontheUFOcircuit.I'vespokenatconferences,butIdon'tfitinatthoseconferences.I'vedonea

lotofpress-andwhatIfoundisIamaverydifferentpersonfrommostofthepeopleintheUFOworldinthatIhaveconservativewaysandmostpeoplehaveamorefreelifestyle,oraremoreliberalorwhatever.Ifthishadn'thappenedtomeandsomebodytoldmethestory,youknow,withjustmyownbackgroundandeverything,Iwouldsaythatthey'rejustlunatics.Soit'sveryinteresting...K:Yeah,itis.D:...thatthispersonherehasexperiencedwhathehasexperienced,andthatwouldbetheonlythingthatwouldmakemeabeliever,ismeexperiencingit.Otherwise,Iprobablywouldn'tbeasbelievingofthisworldorthisyouknow,stuffhappeninginthisworld.Butdefinitely,it'sreal-becauseI've

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